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Re: [SoloWarGame] Re: Grand Manouevre: Black Powder and Blue Steel Napoleonic Wargames Rules

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  • Michael Collins
    No, an opponent`s moves are not automated in the game`s rules, and yes, it is a suggestion. It is an alternative that I have always thought would work well
    Message 1 of 10 , Sep 30, 2010
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      No, an opponent`s moves are not automated in the game`s rules, and yes, it is a
      suggestion.

      It is an alternative that I have always thought would work well with my
      initiative rolls for subordinate generals.

      As in my C3rules the intention is to keep the generals "honest", I`ve always
      felt that the spirit of soloplay would fit in well.
      I think there is still the need for solo players to note their orders down,
      otherwise you will get instantaneous reactions to any battlefield event or
      action of the automated side. This would be quite unrealistic and less of a
      challenge to the gamer.


      The written orders system means that simultaneous movement is possible.
      Or rather simultaneous movement demands that orders are made beforehand,
      otherwise players make things up as they go along and may claim that whatever
      happened was part of their plan anyway!

      Generally speaking, units in commands moved according to the orders of their
      commanding generals and within their grand formations. In reality they did not
      constantly make alternate reactions to each other every few minutes of battle -
      this is just a gaming convention. 
      Once engaged, new orders were difficult to execute and frequently changing the
      orders of commands was unwise. So the guiding principle of the period was
      simple; to keep things together and to preserve the force. This is Grand
      Manouevre!
       




      ________________________________
      From: Dale Hurtt <dale_hurtt@...>
      To: SoloWarGame@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Thursday, 30 September, 2010 18:20:34
      Subject: [SoloWarGame] Re: Grand Manouevre: Black Powder and Blue Steel
      Napoleonic Wargames Rules

       
      > A solo players orders would need to be recorded, the automated
      > opponent`s moves would be determined by cards, probability & chance.

      Does BPBS have rules for automating the opponent's moves? Or is that just a
      suggestion? If the latter, no need to record the solo player's moves, just state
      intent first...

      > I`m not sure that the peices being moved at the same time would
      > make a difference, but prevent immediate player reactions to
      > automated moves. And that would better don`t you think?

      Yes, but I was not commenting on the simultaneous move, only on written orders.




      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Dale Hurtt
      ... My meaning was that the player should fix his orders in mind, roll for the automated opponent, using whatever method, and then play it out. No need for
      Message 2 of 10 , Oct 1, 2010
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        > As in my C3rules the intention is to keep the generals "honest",

        > I think there is still the need for solo players to note their
        > orders down, otherwise you will get instantaneous reactions to any
        > battlefield event or action of the automated side.

        My meaning was that the player should fix his orders in mind, roll for the automated opponent, using whatever method, and then play it out. No need for writing unless you are writing orders for several turns in advance.

        > Generally speaking, units in commands moved according to the orders
        > of their commanding generals and within their grand formations. In
        > reality they did not constantly make alternate reactions to each
        > other every few minutes of battle - this is just a gaming
        > convention. Once engaged, new orders were difficult to execute and
        > frequently changing the orders of commands was unwise.

        Are you advocating battle plans or writing orders for multiple turns, many turns in advance? "The Complete Brigadier" was like the latter. "Shako" is somewhat like the former.

        Dale
      • Michael Collins
        Yes, I am advocating this; orders took time to be issued and transmitted through the levels in the chain of command. My rules model these processes. Unlike
        Message 3 of 10 , Oct 1, 2010
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          Yes, I am advocating this; orders took time to be issued and transmitted through
          the levels in the chain of command.

          My rules model these processes.
          Unlike one of the game systems you have mentioned, there may however be variable
          delays in the transmission or the issuing of new orders from army to corps or
          divisional levels.... and subordinates may even fail to act in the way that a
          player wants!

          Mike


          ________________________________
          From: Dale Hurtt <dale_hurtt@...>
          To: SoloWarGame@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Friday, 1 October, 2010 16:19:41
          Subject: [SoloWarGame] Re: Grand Manouevre: Black Powder and Blue Steel
          Napoleonic Wargames Rules

           
          > As in my C3rules the intention is to keep the generals "honest",

          > I think there is still the need for solo players to note their
          > orders down, otherwise you will get instantaneous reactions to any
          > battlefield event or action of the automated side.

          My meaning was that the player should fix his orders in mind, roll for the
          automated opponent, using whatever method, and then play it out. No need for
          writing unless you are writing orders for several turns in advance.

          > Generally speaking, units in commands moved according to the orders
          > of their commanding generals and within their grand formations. In
          > reality they did not constantly make alternate reactions to each
          > other every few minutes of battle - this is just a gaming
          > convention. Once engaged, new orders were difficult to execute and
          > frequently changing the orders of commands was unwise.

          Are you advocating battle plans or writing orders for multiple turns, many turns
          in advance? "The Complete Brigadier" was like the latter. "Shako" is somewhat
          like the former.

          Dale




          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Colin MacMillan
          ...orders took time to be issued and transmitted through the levels in the chain of command. Man, you just described my day at work ...!   But I agree, and
          Message 4 of 10 , Oct 1, 2010
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            "...orders took time to be issued and transmitted through the levels in the
            chain of command."
            Man, you just described my day at work ...!
             
            But I agree, and think this probably captures the 'human' element. Something I
            look for in all my games.
             
            Colin
            NZ




            ________________________________
            From: Michael Collins <em_see@...>
            To: SoloWarGame@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Sat, October 2, 2010 4:30:18 AM
            Subject: Re: [SoloWarGame] Re: Grand Manouevre: Black Powder and Blue Steel
            Napoleonic Wargames Rules

             
            Yes, I am advocating this; orders took time to be issued and transmitted through

            the levels in the chain of command.

            My rules model these processes.
            Unlike one of the game systems you have mentioned, there may however be variable

            delays in the transmission or the issuing of new orders from army to corps or
            divisional levels.... and subordinates may even fail to act in the way that a
            player wants!

            Mike

            ________________________________
            From: Dale Hurtt <dale_hurtt@...>
            To: SoloWarGame@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Friday, 1 October, 2010 16:19:41
            Subject: [SoloWarGame] Re: Grand Manouevre: Black Powder and Blue Steel
            Napoleonic Wargames Rules

             
            > As in my C3rules the intention is to keep the generals "honest",

            > I think there is still the need for solo players to note their
            > orders down, otherwise you will get instantaneous reactions to any
            > battlefield event or action of the automated side.

            My meaning was that the player should fix his orders in mind, roll for the
            automated opponent, using whatever method, and then play it out. No need for
            writing unless you are writing orders for several turns in advance.

            > Generally speaking, units in commands moved according to the orders
            > of their commanding generals and within their grand formations. In
            > reality they did not constantly make alternate reactions to each
            > other every few minutes of battle - this is just a gaming
            > convention. Once engaged, new orders were difficult to execute and
            > frequently changing the orders of commands was unwise.

            Are you advocating battle plans or writing orders for multiple turns, many turns

            in advance? "The Complete Brigadier" was like the latter. "Shako" is somewhat
            like the former.

            Dale

            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Michael Collins
            Yes, this too is something that i experienced at work managing people in a very practical sense. You need to make time to plan or decide what to do if the
            Message 5 of 10 , Oct 2, 2010
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              Yes, this too is something that i experienced at work managing people in a very
              practical sense. You need to make time to plan or decide what to do if the
              task/s changes, allow for any delays that might occur and allow time for the
              actual task/s being done. Matching tasks with skills is important but
              understanding the job itself is the key.

              The shifts that i ran were often desperate battles!   

              Mike

               



              ________________________________
              From: Colin MacMillan <colinmacmillan@...>
              To: SoloWarGame@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Friday, 1 October, 2010 22:07:14
              Subject: Re: [SoloWarGame] Re: Grand Manouevre: Black Powder and Blue Steel
              Napoleonic Wargames Rules

               
              "...orders took time to be issued and transmitted through the levels in the
              chain of command."
              Man, you just described my day at work ...!
               
              But I agree, and think this probably captures the 'human' element. Something I
              look for in all my games.
               
              Colin
              NZ

              ________________________________
              From: Michael Collins <em_see@...>
              To: SoloWarGame@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Sat, October 2, 2010 4:30:18 AM
              Subject: Re: [SoloWarGame] Re: Grand Manouevre: Black Powder and Blue Steel
              Napoleonic Wargames Rules

               
              Yes, I am advocating this; orders took time to be issued and transmitted through


              the levels in the chain of command.

              My rules model these processes.
              Unlike one of the game systems you have mentioned, there may however be variable


              delays in the transmission or the issuing of new orders from army to corps or
              divisional levels.... and subordinates may even fail to act in the way that a
              player wants!

              Mike

              ________________________________
              From: Dale Hurtt <dale_hurtt@...>
              To: SoloWarGame@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Friday, 1 October, 2010 16:19:41
              Subject: [SoloWarGame] Re: Grand Manouevre: Black Powder and Blue Steel
              Napoleonic Wargames Rules

               
              > As in my C3rules the intention is to keep the generals "honest",

              > I think there is still the need for solo players to note their
              > orders down, otherwise you will get instantaneous reactions to any
              > battlefield event or action of the automated side.

              My meaning was that the player should fix his orders in mind, roll for the
              automated opponent, using whatever method, and then play it out. No need for
              writing unless you are writing orders for several turns in advance.

              > Generally speaking, units in commands moved according to the orders
              > of their commanding generals and within their grand formations. In
              > reality they did not constantly make alternate reactions to each
              > other every few minutes of battle - this is just a gaming
              > convention. Once engaged, new orders were difficult to execute and
              > frequently changing the orders of commands was unwise.

              Are you advocating battle plans or writing orders for multiple turns, many turns


              in advance? "The Complete Brigadier" was like the latter. "Shako" is somewhat
              like the former.

              Dale

              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Michael
              Grand Manouevre: Black Powder & Blue Steel. Rules Description. The rule book has 138 pages with 38 colour tactical diagrams. This includes an introduction to
              Message 6 of 10 , Oct 9, 2010
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                Grand Manouevre: Black Powder & Blue Steel.
                Rules Description.


                The rule book has 138 pages with 38 colour tactical diagrams.
                This includes an introduction to the game's rules and to the period's tactics.
                There is an index to the rules and a glossary of game and historical terms and to help gamers find the reference that they might need both the introduction and rules sections have contents pages added.

                Of most note in the 61 page introduction to the rules are sections on:
                Tactical unit formations and how the various forms of skirmishing practices are catered for within the rules.
                Battle arrays & the grand-tactical manouevre of commands.
                Information on how armies formed line of battle and some of their methods of re-deployment.
                National divisional tactical systems, dispositions and battle array:
                Game tactical advice.
                Army command & control systems.


                The main part of the rules has optional weather rules, movement rules for the "drifting" of commands in bad weather conditions, rules for fires, details about Ottoman forces and rules for their unit characteristics.

                There will also be a printer cartridge-friendly, black and white copy of the main part of the rules.

                Additionally there will be; an 8-page, black and white mini-booklet of reference sheets, orders & messages sheets and optional unit number labels sheets.

                --- In SoloWarGame@yahoogroups.com, Michael Collins <em_see@...> wrote:
                >
                > Yes, this too is something that i experienced at work managing people in a very
                > practical sense. You need to make time to plan or decide what to do if the
                > task/s changes, allow for any delays that might occur and allow time for the
                > actual task/s being done. Matching tasks with skills is important but
                > understanding the job itself is the key.
                >
                > The shifts that i ran were often desperate battles!   
                >
                > Mike
                >
                >  
                >
                >
                >
                > ________________________________
                > From: Colin MacMillan <colinmacmillan@...>
                > To: SoloWarGame@yahoogroups.com
                > Sent: Friday, 1 October, 2010 22:07:14
                > Subject: Re: [SoloWarGame] Re: Grand Manouevre: Black Powder and Blue Steel
                > Napoleonic Wargames Rules
                >
                >  
                > "...orders took time to be issued and transmitted through the levels in the
                > chain of command."
                > Man, you just described my day at work ...!
                >  
                > But I agree, and think this probably captures the 'human' element. Something I
                > look for in all my games.
                >  
                > Colin
                > NZ
                >
                > ________________________________
                > From: Michael Collins <em_see@...>
                > To: SoloWarGame@yahoogroups.com
                > Sent: Sat, October 2, 2010 4:30:18 AM
                > Subject: Re: [SoloWarGame] Re: Grand Manouevre: Black Powder and Blue Steel
                > Napoleonic Wargames Rules
                >
                >  
                > Yes, I am advocating this; orders took time to be issued and transmitted through
                >
                >
                > the levels in the chain of command.
                >
                > My rules model these processes.
                > Unlike one of the game systems you have mentioned, there may however be variable
                >
                >
                > delays in the transmission or the issuing of new orders from army to corps or
                > divisional levels.... and subordinates may even fail to act in the way that a
                > player wants!
                >
                > Mike
                >
                > ________________________________
                > From: Dale Hurtt <dale_hurtt@...>
                > To: SoloWarGame@yahoogroups.com
                > Sent: Friday, 1 October, 2010 16:19:41
                > Subject: [SoloWarGame] Re: Grand Manouevre: Black Powder and Blue Steel
                > Napoleonic Wargames Rules
                >
                >  
                > > As in my C3rules the intention is to keep the generals "honest",
                >
                > > I think there is still the need for solo players to note their
                > > orders down, otherwise you will get instantaneous reactions to any
                > > battlefield event or action of the automated side.
                >
                > My meaning was that the player should fix his orders in mind, roll for the
                > automated opponent, using whatever method, and then play it out. No need for
                > writing unless you are writing orders for several turns in advance.
                >
                > > Generally speaking, units in commands moved according to the orders
                > > of their commanding generals and within their grand formations. In
                > > reality they did not constantly make alternate reactions to each
                > > other every few minutes of battle - this is just a gaming
                > > convention. Once engaged, new orders were difficult to execute and
                > > frequently changing the orders of commands was unwise.
                >
                > Are you advocating battle plans or writing orders for multiple turns, many turns
                >
                >
                > in advance? "The Complete Brigadier" was like the latter. "Shako" is somewhat
                > like the former.
                >
                > Dale
                >
                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >
                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >
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