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RE: [SoloWarGame] Hyspaspists

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  • Craig Ambler
    That is the million dollar question. I have them as just Elite Phalangites, but I know that other see them as slightly lighter troops with Long Spears as there
    Message 1 of 14 , Oct 22, 2009
      That is the million dollar question.

      I have them as just Elite Phalangites, but I know that other see them as
      slightly lighter troops with Long Spears as there are descriptions of
      Alexander using them on mobile expeditions. This is all from the top of
      my head, but I am can find more out if you require it.

      Basically you take your choices

      All the best

      Craig

      ________________________________

      From: SoloWarGame@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SoloWarGame@yahoogroups.com]
      On Behalf Of GORDON
      Sent: 22 October 2009 09:19
      To: SoloWarGame@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: [SoloWarGame] Hyspaspists




      Hi
      I'm just launghing into the Wars of Alexander the great and would like
      to know, what, exactly are Hyspaspists?
      Any amswers gratefully received.

      Thanks
      Gordon






      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Briz
      ... Hi Gordon, I ve always found that the Ancmed Yahoo Group is particularly useful for any detailed historical questions regarding the ancient/medieval
      Message 2 of 14 , Oct 22, 2009
        --- In SoloWarGame@yahoogroups.com, "GORDON" <pegg98765@...> wrote:
        >
        > Hi
        > I'm just launghing into the Wars of Alexander the great and would like to know, what, exactly are Hyspaspists?
        > Any amswers gratefully received.

        Hi Gordon,

        I've always found that the Ancmed Yahoo Group is particularly useful for any detailed historical questions regarding the ancient/medieval period, as it has quite a few professional historians on it. I always remember the time I posted a query about the top-knots on my Essex Indian archers - hair or material, I asked - and got a comprehensive reply within 15 minutes complete with links!!! Just use the group search facility and type in 'ancmed'.

        Chz,
        Jay
        solowargamer.info
      • David Lubin
        I am no Ancients expert actually rather far from, a quick look on Wikpedia (Yeah it is kind of hit, miss, or out right self promotion),  But they spell it as
        Message 3 of 14 , Oct 22, 2009
          I am no Ancients expert actually rather far from, a quick look on Wikpedia (Yeah it is kind of hit, miss, or out right self promotion),  But they spell it as Hypaspist, take a look it may just answer most of the your question (well on sided as it is)

          Dave

          P.S. the web page is http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypaspist -Dave

          --- On Thu, 10/22/09, Craig Ambler <craig.ambler@...> wrote:

          From: Craig Ambler <craig.ambler@...>
          Subject: RE: [SoloWarGame] Hyspaspists
          To: SoloWarGame@yahoogroups.com
          Date: Thursday, October 22, 2009, 4:25 AM






           





          That is the million dollar question.



          I have them as just Elite Phalangites, but I know that other see them as

          slightly lighter troops with Long Spears as there are descriptions of

          Alexander using them on mobile expeditions. This is all from the top of

          my head, but I am can find more out if you require it.



          Basically you take your choices



          All the best



          Craig



          ____________ _________ _________ __



          From: SoloWarGame@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:SoloWarGame@ yahoogroups. com]

          On Behalf Of GORDON

          Sent: 22 October 2009 09:19

          To: SoloWarGame@ yahoogroups. com

          Subject: [SoloWarGame] Hyspaspists



          Hi

          I'm just launghing into the Wars of Alexander the great and would like

          to know, what, exactly are Hyspaspists?

          Any amswers gratefully received.



          Thanks

          Gordon



          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]































          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Steve-the-Wargamer
          Oh lordy isn t that a question - I remember years and years of Slingshot issues (back in the 70 s and 80 s) where various learned gentlemen explained why their
          Message 4 of 14 , Oct 22, 2009
            Oh lordy isn't that a question - I remember years and years of Slingshot issues (back in the 70's and 80's) where various learned gentlemen explained why their theory was right as to what a Hyspaspist was! :o)))

            It's not my period, but I've always thought of them as a slightly more lightly armed phalangite, probably with long spear as opposed to pike... a kind of medium infantry (as opposed to light skirmisher, or heavy pikeman)

            Just my two'pennorth...

            Steve

            --- In SoloWarGame@yahoogroups.com, "Craig Ambler" <craig.ambler@...> wrote:
            >
            > That is the million dollar question.
            >
            > I have them as just Elite Phalangites, but I know that other see them as
            > slightly lighter troops with Long Spears as there are descriptions of
            > Alexander using them on mobile expeditions. This is all from the top of
            > my head, but I am can find more out if you require it.
            >
            > Basically you take your choices
            >
            > All the best
            >
            > Craig
            >
            > ________________________________
            >
            > From: SoloWarGame@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SoloWarGame@yahoogroups.com]
            > On Behalf Of GORDON
            > Sent: 22 October 2009 09:19
            > To: SoloWarGame@yahoogroups.com
            > Subject: [SoloWarGame] Hyspaspists
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > Hi
            > I'm just launghing into the Wars of Alexander the great and would like
            > to know, what, exactly are Hyspaspists?
            > Any amswers gratefully received.
            >
            > Thanks
            > Gordon
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >
          • bawdrans
            Wikipedia article as good as any, not much more to be gleaned from the Osprey Alexander title. As nobody really knows with certainty, I went with hoplite
            Message 5 of 14 , Oct 22, 2009
              Wikipedia article as good as any, not much more to be gleaned from the Osprey Alexander title. As nobody really knows with certainty, I went with hoplite types sporting fancy colours like the companions.
            • jacar@johnshouse.org
              I view them as elite pike phalanx. The reason I chose pike over elite light troops is that the Successor armies have elite pike (Silver shields, Agema and so
              Message 6 of 14 , Oct 22, 2009
                I view them as elite pike phalanx. The reason I chose pike over elite
                light troops is that the Successor armies have elite pike (Silver shields,
                Agema and so forth) but none have elite light troops. I reckon they
                copied the master when organizing their respective armies.

                However, your guess is as good as mine. :-)

                John

                > Hi
                > I'm just launghing into the Wars of Alexander the great and would like to
                > know, what, exactly are Hyspaspists?
                > Any amswers gratefully received.
                >
                > Thanks
                > Gordon
                >
                >
              • David Lubin
                Who or what are the companions? ... From: bawdrans Subject: [SoloWarGame] Re: Hyspaspists To: SoloWarGame@yahoogroups.com Date:
                Message 7 of 14 , Oct 22, 2009
                  Who or what are the companions?

                  --- On Thu, 10/22/09, bawdrans <dee-side_er@...> wrote:

                  From: bawdrans <dee-side_er@...>
                  Subject: [SoloWarGame] Re: Hyspaspists
                  To: SoloWarGame@yahoogroups.com
                  Date: Thursday, October 22, 2009, 7:23 AM






                   





                  Wikipedia article as good as any, not much more to be gleaned from the Osprey Alexander title. As nobody really knows with certainty, I went with hoplite types sporting fancy colours like the companions.































                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • jacar@johnshouse.org
                  Usually this refers to Alexander s Macedonian cavalry. Veteran heavy cavalry using the Kontos, a long spear or lance. I ve also seen it referring to all
                  Message 8 of 14 , Oct 22, 2009
                    Usually this refers to Alexander's Macedonian cavalry. Veteran heavy
                    cavalry using the Kontos, a long spear or lance.

                    I've also seen it referring to all things Macedonian...companion
                    phalangites, companion cavalry etc.

                    I think the "proper" game use is to associate it with the cavalry.

                    John



                    > Who or what are the companions?
                    >
                    > --- On Thu, 10/22/09, bawdrans <dee-side_er@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > From: bawdrans <dee-side_er@...>
                    > Subject: [SoloWarGame] Re: Hyspaspists
                    > To: SoloWarGame@yahoogroups.com
                    > Date: Thursday, October 22, 2009, 7:23 AM
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                    > Wikipedia article as good as any, not much more to be
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                    > really knows with certainty, I went with hoplite types
                    > sporting fancy colours like the companions.
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                  • bawdrans
                    Gordon, A couple of useful books among the thousands written about old Alex are: Alexander the Great s Campaigns , Phil Barker, Patrick Stephens 1979 ISBN 0
                    Message 9 of 14 , Oct 23, 2009
                      Gordon,

                      A couple of useful books among the thousands written about old Alex are:

                      'Alexander the Great's Campaigns', Phil Barker, Patrick Stephens 1979 ISBN 0 85059 325 5. Primarily from a wargaming perspective. Library or e-bay should get it.

                      'The Generalship of Alexander the Great' , J.F.C. Fuller (1958), Wordsworth editions 1998 ISBN 1 85326 695 7. Clear analysis of the major campaigns and actions. Sources as before.

                      I liked these two because they are not written for academics.

                      The DBA route suited me for this lot, small armies so easy painting and the rules readily adapt to solo play.

                      Cheers,

                      George
                    • GORDON
                      Many thanks to all who have replied to my query about hyspaspists. As you ll gather, I m none the wiser, but it is good to know that it is not just me! I
                      Message 10 of 14 , Oct 23, 2009
                        Many thanks to all who have replied to my query about hyspaspists. As you'll gather, I'm none the wiser, but it is good to know that it is not just me! I think I might go for the sort of elite hoplite route but the books recommended will be very useful.

                        Thank you all very much.

                        Gordon

                        --- In SoloWarGame@yahoogroups.com, "bawdrans" <dee-side_er@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > Gordon,
                        >
                        > A couple of useful books among the thousands written about old Alex are:
                        >
                        > 'Alexander the Great's Campaigns', Phil Barker, Patrick Stephens 1979 ISBN 0 85059 325 5. Primarily from a wargaming perspective. Library or e-bay should get it.
                        >
                        > 'The Generalship of Alexander the Great' , J.F.C. Fuller (1958), Wordsworth editions 1998 ISBN 1 85326 695 7. Clear analysis of the major campaigns and actions. Sources as before.
                        >
                        > I liked these two because they are not written for academics.
                        >
                        > The DBA route suited me for this lot, small armies so easy painting and the rules readily adapt to solo play.
                        >
                        > Cheers,
                        >
                        > George
                        >
                      • davidjohnmccann
                        Firstly, they were Hypaspists (not hys-). Secondly, they would have been the elite force in the foot, just as the Companions were elite cavalry. The term had
                        Message 11 of 14 , Oct 23, 2009
                          Firstly, they were Hypaspists (not hys-).

                          Secondly, they would have been the elite force in the foot, just as the Companions were elite cavalry. The term had earlier been used for "squires".

                          The arguments for their being pikemen are that the are said to have drawn up on the right of the pike blocks, and no ancient author felt the need to tell us how they were equipped, which suggests they were the same as the pikemen.

                          The argument against pikes is that hypaspists turn up on forced marches and mobile operations, suggesting greater maneuverability. This proves nothing, as we know that pikemen were also trained to use javelins (try using pikes in a siege): they could have just left their pikes behind when necessary.

                          Duncan Head was impressed by figures with old hoplite-style shields on Alexander's sarcophagus. With big shields, they couldn't have been pikemen, and figures on the tomb would obvious be from elite units. Of course, art proves nothing. Perhaps the sculptor mistakenly gave the guardsmen officer's shields, or perhaps he was a Greek who thought "proper" hoplites' shields looked better that this new-fangled Macedonian stuff!

                          --- In SoloWarGame@yahoogroups.com, "GORDON" <pegg98765@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > Hi
                          > I'm just launghing into the Wars of Alexander the great and would like to know, what, exactly are Hyspaspists?
                        • GORDON
                          Thanks. That is really helpful Gordon
                          Message 12 of 14 , Oct 23, 2009
                            Thanks.

                            That is really helpful

                            Gordon

                            --- In SoloWarGame@yahoogroups.com, "davidjohnmccann" <old_astrologer@...> wrote:
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > Firstly, they were Hypaspists (not hys-).
                            >
                            > Secondly, they would have been the elite force in the foot, just as the Companions were elite cavalry. The term had earlier been used for "squires".
                            >
                            > The arguments for their being pikemen are that the are said to have drawn up on the right of the pike blocks, and no ancient author felt the need to tell us how they were equipped, which suggests they were the same as the pikemen.
                            >
                            > The argument against pikes is that hypaspists turn up on forced marches and mobile operations, suggesting greater maneuverability. This proves nothing, as we know that pikemen were also trained to use javelins (try using pikes in a siege): they could have just left their pikes behind when necessary.
                            >
                            > Duncan Head was impressed by figures with old hoplite-style shields on Alexander's sarcophagus. With big shields, they couldn't have been pikemen, and figures on the tomb would obvious be from elite units. Of course, art proves nothing. Perhaps the sculptor mistakenly gave the guardsmen officer's shields, or perhaps he was a Greek who thought "proper" hoplites' shields looked better that this new-fangled Macedonian stuff!
                            >
                            > --- In SoloWarGame@yahoogroups.com, "GORDON" <pegg98765@> wrote:
                            > >
                            > > Hi
                            > > I'm just launghing into the Wars of Alexander the great and would like to know, what, exactly are Hyspaspists?
                            >
                          • Ambrose Hawk
                            Even though he is quite dated, T.A. Dodge s text on Alexander will go into nitty gritty detail that you often won t get from even the most up to date book ...
                            Message 13 of 14 , Oct 24, 2009
                              Even though he is quite dated, T.A. Dodge's text on Alexander will go
                              into nitty gritty detail that you often won't get from even the most up
                              to date book ...
                              :)
                              Arthur
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