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Re: hello back to jim from texas sniper sighting

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  • Tom
    Hello, the m40 (7.62mm) or a Remington 700 bolt action was the first sniper rifle used, during Vietnam by , by manily marine snipers, and special force, or
    Message 1 of 9 , Mar 1, 2007
      Hello,
      the m40 (7.62mm) or a Remington 700 bolt action was the first sniper
      rifle used, during Vietnam by , by manily marine snipers, and
      special force, or LRRPs. And still used today, but the m40a3 is used
      today in modern combat. Each had a 5 round mag.
      As well as used by the army the M24, which is also a modified
      Remington 700.
      The SVD (7.62mm) sniper rifle and M-91/30 sniper rifles were used by
      NVA snipers. Both had scopes and were both bolt action rifles with
      magiznes. Both were 7.62mm, both russian made, in the 60's.

      All true sniper rifles are all bolt actions. But many rifles
      obviously can be used as a sniper rifle, such as gas feed
      automatics. Most autos are hard to use as sniper rifles do to the
      fact that most AK's only fire on semi or full auto.
      No AK has a mount for a scope, you have to go into the SKS, or the
      SVD, that were designed as sniper rifles.

      later,
      tom

      --- In SoloWarGame@yahoogroups.com, jim davis <jhdavis19@...> wrote:
      >
      > You could make it harder on the sniper by equiping him
      > with a bolt action rifle. I dont think there is a AK
      > 47 sniper version. I dont think there is even an NK
      > 47 target version,
      > With a bolt he would be limited as to how quickly he
      > could make follow up shots, or engage second targets.
      > M14s do come in sniper versions,
      > not sure how many snipers use them as opposed to the
      > several bolt actions used by the US. But I think you
      > are deploying a squad guy who has extra training
      > rather than a dedicated sniper team. So he coudl
      > carry the m14.
      > Jim
      > --- jim <easyjimy@...> wrote:
      >
      > > well i have been doing alot of working on this. i
      > > did this in away to
      > > say keep the sniper out of range of most infantry.
      > > plus most iraqs
      > > realy are up and shoot and run. and i think most
      > > that fire on squads
      > > on patrol are useing ak.47 are some off the wall
      > > gun. so the range idea
      > > was to make it better. as in useing a scope. so if
      > > your sniper has his
      > > scope he can see things that the naked eye cant.
      > > plus shoot that range.
      > > so i took in alot of things. and when ieds are up
      > > high are a long ways
      > > away behind a wall well its hard to target him with
      > > a infantry squad
      > > that most are not carrying a scope . so with the -1
      > > are 2 every 5 inchs
      > > is real eye sight in some ways as to really seeing
      > > the target that is
      > > for away. are in a sand are snow storm are rain. the
      > > numbers i give are
      > > really up to you on what your numbers are i am just
      > > trying to give some
      > > ideas. i am glad its warming up also let the grass
      > > grow . plus the
      > > building sighting -1 per story its hard to see a
      > > target up high from
      > > ground level when under fire. anyway the shooting i
      > > am working on now
      > > to try and get a cool way to do both sight and
      > > shoot. anyone have a
      > > good idea to add to my sighting to do both feel
      > > free. anyway i will be
      > > around have a good night and watch out for trip
      > > wires going for that
      > > mid night walk jimy.
      > >
      > >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      _____________________________________________________________________
      _______________
      > Now that's room service! Choose from over 150,000 hotels
      > in 45,000 destinations on Yahoo! Travel to find your fit.
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      >
    • Tom
      And may I add on a side note, using a fully auto rifle as a sniper rifle, one has to worry about the rounds ejecting from the weapon, even when you pull off
      Message 2 of 9 , Mar 1, 2007
        And may I add on a side note, using a fully auto rifle as a sniper
        rifle, one has to worry about the rounds ejecting from the weapon,
        even when you pull off one shot, you cant control the round
        ejecting, which being a sniper, you dont want to give your position
        up , by having brass casings all around you.
        Thus that is why bolt action rifles are used as sniper rifles. And a
        good sniper can unload 5 rounds on a moving target, all kills in
        just seconds, and be reloaded with a fresh mag, before the blood
        seeps out from the wounds.
        Cheers!
        tom
        --- In SoloWarGame@yahoogroups.com, "Tom" <sithlord2@...> wrote:
        >
        > Hello,
        > the m40 (7.62mm) or a Remington 700 bolt action was the first
        sniper
        > rifle used, during Vietnam by , by manily marine snipers, and
        > special force, or LRRPs. And still used today, but the m40a3 is
        used
        > today in modern combat. Each had a 5 round mag.
        > As well as used by the army the M24, which is also a modified
        > Remington 700.
        > The SVD (7.62mm) sniper rifle and M-91/30 sniper rifles were used
        by
        > NVA snipers. Both had scopes and were both bolt action rifles with
        > magiznes. Both were 7.62mm, both russian made, in the 60's.
        >
        > All true sniper rifles are all bolt actions. But many rifles
        > obviously can be used as a sniper rifle, such as gas feed
        > automatics. Most autos are hard to use as sniper rifles do to the
        > fact that most AK's only fire on semi or full auto.
        > No AK has a mount for a scope, you have to go into the SKS, or the
        > SVD, that were designed as sniper rifles.
        >
        > later,
        > tom
        >
        > --- In SoloWarGame@yahoogroups.com, jim davis <jhdavis19@> wrote:
        > >
        > > You could make it harder on the sniper by equiping him
        > > with a bolt action rifle. I dont think there is a AK
        > > 47 sniper version. I dont think there is even an NK
        > > 47 target version,
        > > With a bolt he would be limited as to how quickly he
        > > could make follow up shots, or engage second targets.
        > > M14s do come in sniper versions,
        > > not sure how many snipers use them as opposed to the
        > > several bolt actions used by the US. But I think you
        > > are deploying a squad guy who has extra training
        > > rather than a dedicated sniper team. So he coudl
        > > carry the m14.
        > > Jim
        > > --- jim <easyjimy@> wrote:
        > >
        > > > well i have been doing alot of working on this. i
        > > > did this in away to
        > > > say keep the sniper out of range of most infantry.
        > > > plus most iraqs
        > > > realy are up and shoot and run. and i think most
        > > > that fire on squads
        > > > on patrol are useing ak.47 are some off the wall
        > > > gun. so the range idea
        > > > was to make it better. as in useing a scope. so if
        > > > your sniper has his
        > > > scope he can see things that the naked eye cant.
        > > > plus shoot that range.
        > > > so i took in alot of things. and when ieds are up
        > > > high are a long ways
        > > > away behind a wall well its hard to target him with
        > > > a infantry squad
        > > > that most are not carrying a scope . so with the -1
        > > > are 2 every 5 inchs
        > > > is real eye sight in some ways as to really seeing
        > > > the target that is
        > > > for away. are in a sand are snow storm are rain. the
        > > > numbers i give are
        > > > really up to you on what your numbers are i am just
        > > > trying to give some
        > > > ideas. i am glad its warming up also let the grass
        > > > grow . plus the
        > > > building sighting -1 per story its hard to see a
        > > > target up high from
        > > > ground level when under fire. anyway the shooting i
        > > > am working on now
        > > > to try and get a cool way to do both sight and
        > > > shoot. anyone have a
        > > > good idea to add to my sighting to do both feel
        > > > free. anyway i will be
        > > > around have a good night and watch out for trip
        > > > wires going for that
        > > > mid night walk jimy.
        > > >
        > > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        >
        _____________________________________________________________________
        > _______________
        > > Now that's room service! Choose from over 150,000 hotels
        > > in 45,000 destinations on Yahoo! Travel to find your fit.
        > > http://farechase.yahoo.com/promo-generic-14795097
        > >
        >
      • jim davis
        The bolt action has advantages for sniper work, but the M1 and M14 were both fitted with scopes and used. The Barrett .50 bmg is semi auto and is usually
        Message 3 of 9 , Mar 1, 2007
          The bolt action has advantages for sniper work, but
          the M1 and M14 were both fitted with scopes and used.
          The Barrett .50 bmg is semi auto and is usually
          considered a sniper weapon. According to Hathcock his
          number two carried a scoped M14 in VietNam. The Bolt
          is supposed to be ineritanly more accurate, but the
          performance of the M1, M14 and even M16 at the
          natioal matches seems to indicate the difference if
          any is slight.
          I suspect that the bolt, fully worked over for
          maximun accuarcy, may be easier to maintain, and more
          reliable, as it is less complex, It definitly is
          easier to produce in various calibers.( Evidently
          there is a lot of intreest in sniper rifles in the
          .33-38 caliber rnage. lighter than a Barrett. but
          still usable against vehicles. )
          One of Hathcocks comment was the bolt was preferable
          to the semi auto as the semi auto throwing the brass
          out could bive your position away. With the 50
          shooing at 1000+ yds, probably not a problem.
          The AKs are designed for reliabilty over accuracy, so
          it would be a waste of time to scope them. The Nagent
          is a better choice.
          On the other hand, I was never a military sniper.
          Jim D


          --- Tom <sithlord2@...> wrote:

          > Hello,
          > the m40 (7.62mm) or a Remington 700 bolt action was
          > the first sniper
          > rifle used, during Vietnam by , by manily marine
          > snipers, and
          > special force, or LRRPs. And still used today, but
          > the m40a3 is used
          > today in modern combat. Each had a 5 round mag.
          > As well as used by the army the M24, which is also a
          > modified
          > Remington 700.
          > The SVD (7.62mm) sniper rifle and M-91/30 sniper
          > rifles were used by
          > NVA snipers. Both had scopes and were both bolt
          > action rifles with
          > magiznes. Both were 7.62mm, both russian made, in
          > the 60's.
          >
          > All true sniper rifles are all bolt actions. But
          > many rifles
          > obviously can be used as a sniper rifle, such as gas
          > feed
          > automatics. Most autos are hard to use as sniper
          > rifles do to the
          > fact that most AK's only fire on semi or full auto.
          > No AK has a mount for a scope, you have to go into
          > the SKS, or the
          > SVD, that were designed as sniper rifles.
          >
          > later,
          > tom
          >
          > --- In SoloWarGame@yahoogroups.com, jim davis
          > <jhdavis19@...> wrote:
          > >
          > > You could make it harder on the sniper by equiping
          > him
          > > with a bolt action rifle. I dont think there is a
          > AK
          > > 47 sniper version. I dont think there is even an
          > NK
          > > 47 target version,
          > > With a bolt he would be limited as to how quickly
          > he
          > > could make follow up shots, or engage second
          > targets.
          > > M14s do come in sniper versions,
          > > not sure how many snipers use them as opposed to
          > the
          > > several bolt actions used by the US. But I think
          > you
          > > are deploying a squad guy who has extra training
          > > rather than a dedicated sniper team. So he coudl
          > > carry the m14.
          > > Jim
          > > --- jim <easyjimy@...> wrote:
          > >
          > > > well i have been doing alot of working on this.
          > i
          > > > did this in away to
          > > > say keep the sniper out of range of most
          > infantry.
          > > > plus most iraqs
          > > > realy are up and shoot and run. and i think
          > most
          > > > that fire on squads
          > > > on patrol are useing ak.47 are some off the wall
          > > > gun. so the range idea
          > > > was to make it better. as in useing a scope. so
          > if
          > > > your sniper has his
          > > > scope he can see things that the naked eye cant.
          > > > plus shoot that range.
          > > > so i took in alot of things. and when ieds are
          > up
          > > > high are a long ways
          > > > away behind a wall well its hard to target him
          > with
          > > > a infantry squad
          > > > that most are not carrying a scope . so with the
          > -1
          > > > are 2 every 5 inchs
          > > > is real eye sight in some ways as to really
          > seeing
          > > > the target that is
          > > > for away. are in a sand are snow storm are rain.
          > the
          > > > numbers i give are
          > > > really up to you on what your numbers are i am
          > just
          > > > trying to give some
          > > > ideas. i am glad its warming up also let the
          > grass
          > > > grow . plus the
          > > > building sighting -1 per story its hard to see a
          > > > target up high from
          > > > ground level when under fire. anyway the
          > shooting i
          > > > am working on now
          > > > to try and get a cool way to do both sight and
          > > > shoot. anyone have a
          > > > good idea to add to my sighting to do both feel
          > > > free. anyway i will be
          > > > around have a good night and watch out for trip
          > > > wires going for that
          > > > mid night walk jimy.
          > > >
          > > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          >
          _____________________________________________________________________
          > _______________
          > > Now that's room service! Choose from over 150,000
          > hotels
          > > in 45,000 destinations on Yahoo! Travel to find
          > your fit.
          > > http://farechase.yahoo.com/promo-generic-14795097
          > >
          >
          >
          >





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        • jim davis
          Tom, not to carp on a small point , but if I unjload 5 rounds from my bolt action in a just seconds where do you think the brass goes? And the M! and M14 are
          Message 4 of 9 , Mar 1, 2007
            Tom, not to carp on a small point , but if I unjload 5
            rounds from my bolt action in a just seconds where do
            you think the brass goes?
            And the M! and M14 are semi auto not full auto.
            Most sniper rifles are bolt, not all.
            Jim D

            --- Tom <sithlord2@...> wrote:

            > And may I add on a side note, using a fully auto
            > rifle as a sniper
            > rifle, one has to worry about the rounds ejecting
            > from the weapon,
            > even when you pull off one shot, you cant control
            > the round
            > ejecting, which being a sniper, you dont want to
            > give your position
            > up , by having brass casings all around you.
            > Thus that is why bolt action rifles are used as
            > sniper rifles. And a
            > good sniper can unload 5 rounds on a moving target,
            > all kills in
            > just seconds, and be reloaded with a fresh mag,
            > before the blood
            > seeps out from the wounds.
            > Cheers!
            > tom
            > --- In SoloWarGame@yahoogroups.com, "Tom"
            > <sithlord2@...> wrote:
            > >
            > > Hello,
            > > the m40 (7.62mm) or a Remington 700 bolt action
            > was the first
            > sniper
            > > rifle used, during Vietnam by , by manily marine
            > snipers, and
            > > special force, or LRRPs. And still used today, but
            > the m40a3 is
            > used
            > > today in modern combat. Each had a 5 round mag.
            > > As well as used by the army the M24, which is also
            > a modified
            > > Remington 700.
            > > The SVD (7.62mm) sniper rifle and M-91/30 sniper
            > rifles were used
            > by
            > > NVA snipers. Both had scopes and were both bolt
            > action rifles with
            > > magiznes. Both were 7.62mm, both russian made, in
            > the 60's.
            > >
            > > All true sniper rifles are all bolt actions. But
            > many rifles
            > > obviously can be used as a sniper rifle, such as
            > gas feed
            > > automatics. Most autos are hard to use as sniper
            > rifles do to the
            > > fact that most AK's only fire on semi or full
            > auto.
            > > No AK has a mount for a scope, you have to go into
            > the SKS, or the
            > > SVD, that were designed as sniper rifles.
            > >
            > > later,
            > > tom
            > >
            > > --- In SoloWarGame@yahoogroups.com, jim davis
            > <jhdavis19@> wrote:
            > > >
            > > > You could make it harder on the sniper by
            > equiping him
            > > > with a bolt action rifle. I dont think there is
            > a AK
            > > > 47 sniper version. I dont think there is even
            > an NK
            > > > 47 target version,
            > > > With a bolt he would be limited as to how
            > quickly he
            > > > could make follow up shots, or engage second
            > targets.
            > > > M14s do come in sniper versions,
            > > > not sure how many snipers use them as opposed to
            > the
            > > > several bolt actions used by the US. But I
            > think you
            > > > are deploying a squad guy who has extra training
            > > > rather than a dedicated sniper team. So he
            > coudl
            > > > carry the m14.
            > > > Jim
            > > > --- jim <easyjimy@> wrote:
            > > >
            > > > > well i have been doing alot of working on
            > this. i
            > > > > did this in away to
            > > > > say keep the sniper out of range of most
            > infantry.
            > > > > plus most iraqs
            > > > > realy are up and shoot and run. and i think
            > most
            > > > > that fire on squads
            > > > > on patrol are useing ak.47 are some off the
            > wall
            > > > > gun. so the range idea
            > > > > was to make it better. as in useing a scope.
            > so if
            > > > > your sniper has his
            > > > > scope he can see things that the naked eye
            > cant.
            > > > > plus shoot that range.
            > > > > so i took in alot of things. and when ieds are
            > up
            > > > > high are a long ways
            > > > > away behind a wall well its hard to target him
            > with
            > > > > a infantry squad
            > > > > that most are not carrying a scope . so with
            > the -1
            > > > > are 2 every 5 inchs
            > > > > is real eye sight in some ways as to really
            > seeing
            > > > > the target that is
            > > > > for away. are in a sand are snow storm are
            > rain. the
            > > > > numbers i give are
            > > > > really up to you on what your numbers are i am
            > just
            > > > > trying to give some
            > > > > ideas. i am glad its warming up also let the
            > grass
            > > > > grow . plus the
            > > > > building sighting -1 per story its hard to see
            > a
            > > > > target up high from
            > > > > ground level when under fire. anyway the
            > shooting i
            > > > > am working on now
            > > > > to try and get a cool way to do both sight and
            > > > > shoot. anyone have a
            > > > > good idea to add to my sighting to do both
            > feel
            > > > > free. anyway i will be
            > > > > around have a good night and watch out for
            > trip
            > > > > wires going for that
            > > > > mid night walk jimy.
            > > > >
            > > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > >
            >
            _____________________________________________________________________
            > > _______________
            > > > Now that's room service! Choose from over
            > 150,000 hotels
            > > > in 45,000 destinations on Yahoo! Travel to find
            > your fit.
            > > >
            > http://farechase.yahoo.com/promo-generic-14795097
            > > >
            > >
            >
            >
            >




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          • Tom
            Yes, you do have a point, but fire off five rounds auto, fire 5 rounds, bolt action, when you use a bolt action, you can control the casings flying out.
            Message 5 of 9 , Mar 1, 2007
              Yes, you do have a point, but fire off five rounds auto, fire 5
              rounds, bolt action, when you use a bolt action, you can control the
              casings flying out. Usually you would have a spotter with you,
              however, a good point was that, usually your very far away firing,
              and its not really an issue at that point. But as your closer to the
              enemy, it would matter, so shots would be fast, but reloading would
              be something you would work on to perfect, point taken, but grab a
              bolt action rifle, and reload, then fire a automatic rifle, the
              casing will fly, you can control the ejecting using a bolt action.
              But the reason to use bolt actions was do for better accuracy as
              well-

              No arguing about m14's they were in respect the first american used
              sniper rifles, before an actul Sniper detachments were formed, etc,
              as well as the 50 cal.

              If you use a full auto as a sniper rifle, flash suppressors would be
              needed to hide flash. Im not saying only sniper rifles are all bolt
              action, its just more practical to use a bolt action, instead of
              modifing a full auto, unless you have a m-14. Snipers dont want to
              get caught. The talk about casings on the ground isnt really a big
              issue, it was just a small point, most of the time, your not firing
              a suppressing fire down, so your shots are carefully aimed shots. Im
              not an expert or anything, or do I claim to be. Just have a little
              knowledge in the area.
              And Im specific, Im talking wargaming Vietnam, etc.

              Anyways Cheers!
              tom

              -- In SoloWarGame@yahoogroups.com, jim davis <jhdavis19@...> wrote:
              >
              > Tom, not to carp on a small point , but if I unjload 5
              > rounds from my bolt action in a just seconds where do
              > you think the brass goes?
              > And the M! and M14 are semi auto not full auto.
              > Most sniper rifles are bolt, not all.
              > Jim D
              >
              > --- Tom <sithlord2@...> wrote:
              >
              > > And may I add on a side note, using a fully auto
              > > rifle as a sniper
              > > rifle, one has to worry about the rounds ejecting
              > > from the weapon,
              > > even when you pull off one shot, you cant control
              > > the round
              > > ejecting, which being a sniper, you dont want to
              > > give your position
              > > up , by having brass casings all around you.
              > > Thus that is why bolt action rifles are used as
              > > sniper rifles. And a
              > > good sniper can unload 5 rounds on a moving target,
              > > all kills in
              > > just seconds, and be reloaded with a fresh mag,
              > > before the blood
              > > seeps out from the wounds.
              > > Cheers!
              > > tom
              > > --- In SoloWarGame@yahoogroups.com, "Tom"
              > > <sithlord2@> wrote:
              > > >
              > > > Hello,
              > > > the m40 (7.62mm) or a Remington 700 bolt action
              > > was the first
              > > sniper
              > > > rifle used, during Vietnam by , by manily marine
              > > snipers, and
              > > > special force, or LRRPs. And still used today, but
              > > the m40a3 is
              > > used
              > > > today in modern combat. Each had a 5 round mag.
              > > > As well as used by the army the M24, which is also
              > > a modified
              > > > Remington 700.
              > > > The SVD (7.62mm) sniper rifle and M-91/30 sniper
              > > rifles were used
              > > by
              > > > NVA snipers. Both had scopes and were both bolt
              > > action rifles with
              > > > magiznes. Both were 7.62mm, both russian made, in
              > > the 60's.
              > > >
              > > > All true sniper rifles are all bolt actions. But
              > > many rifles
              > > > obviously can be used as a sniper rifle, such as
              > > gas feed
              > > > automatics. Most autos are hard to use as sniper
              > > rifles do to the
              > > > fact that most AK's only fire on semi or full
              > > auto.
              > > > No AK has a mount for a scope, you have to go into
              > > the SKS, or the
              > > > SVD, that were designed as sniper rifles.
              > > >
              > > > later,
              > > > tom
              > > >
              > > > --- In SoloWarGame@yahoogroups.com, jim davis
              > > <jhdavis19@> wrote:
              > > > >
              > > > > You could make it harder on the sniper by
              > > equiping him
              > > > > with a bolt action rifle. I dont think there is
              > > a AK
              > > > > 47 sniper version. I dont think there is even
              > > an NK
              > > > > 47 target version,
              > > > > With a bolt he would be limited as to how
              > > quickly he
              > > > > could make follow up shots, or engage second
              > > targets.
              > > > > M14s do come in sniper versions,
              > > > > not sure how many snipers use them as opposed to
              > > the
              > > > > several bolt actions used by the US. But I
              > > think you
              > > > > are deploying a squad guy who has extra training
              > > > > rather than a dedicated sniper team. So he
              > > coudl
              > > > > carry the m14.
              > > > > Jim
              > > > > --- jim <easyjimy@> wrote:
              > > > >
              > > > > > well i have been doing alot of working on
              > > this. i
              > > > > > did this in away to
              > > > > > say keep the sniper out of range of most
              > > infantry.
              > > > > > plus most iraqs
              > > > > > realy are up and shoot and run. and i think
              > > most
              > > > > > that fire on squads
              > > > > > on patrol are useing ak.47 are some off the
              > > wall
              > > > > > gun. so the range idea
              > > > > > was to make it better. as in useing a scope.
              > > so if
              > > > > > your sniper has his
              > > > > > scope he can see things that the naked eye
              > > cant.
              > > > > > plus shoot that range.
              > > > > > so i took in alot of things. and when ieds are
              > > up
              > > > > > high are a long ways
              > > > > > away behind a wall well its hard to target him
              > > with
              > > > > > a infantry squad
              > > > > > that most are not carrying a scope . so with
              > > the -1
              > > > > > are 2 every 5 inchs
              > > > > > is real eye sight in some ways as to really
              > > seeing
              > > > > > the target that is
              > > > > > for away. are in a sand are snow storm are
              > > rain. the
              > > > > > numbers i give are
              > > > > > really up to you on what your numbers are i am
              > > just
              > > > > > trying to give some
              > > > > > ideas. i am glad its warming up also let the
              > > grass
              > > > > > grow . plus the
              > > > > > building sighting -1 per story its hard to see
              > > a
              > > > > > target up high from
              > > > > > ground level when under fire. anyway the
              > > shooting i
              > > > > > am working on now
              > > > > > to try and get a cool way to do both sight and
              > > > > > shoot. anyone have a
              > > > > > good idea to add to my sighting to do both
              > > feel
              > > > > > free. anyway i will be
              > > > > > around have a good night and watch out for
              > > trip
              > > > > > wires going for that
              > > > > > mid night walk jimy.
              > > > > >
              > > > > >
              > > > >
              > > > >
              > > > >
              > > > >
              > > > >
              > > >
              > >
              >
              _____________________________________________________________________
              > > > _______________
              > > > > Now that's room service! Choose from over
              > > 150,000 hotels
              > > > > in 45,000 destinations on Yahoo! Travel to find
              > > your fit.
              > > > >
              > > http://farechase.yahoo.com/promo-generic-14795097
              > > > >
              > > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              _____________________________________________________________________
              _______________
              > Looking for earth-friendly autos?
              > Browse Top Cars by "Green Rating" at Yahoo! Autos' Green Center.
              > http://autos.yahoo.com/green_center/
              >
            • J Lowry
              lol...FIRST MODERN American sniper rifle was the Springfiels M1908 (was used for sniping in WW1, WW2, Korea and a FEW were still in use for Vietnam. The next
              Message 6 of 9 , Mar 1, 2007
                lol...FIRST MODERN American sniper rifle was the Springfiels M1908 (was used for sniping in WW1, WW2, Korea and a FEW were still in use for Vietnam. The next weapon was the M1 Garand which also had a scope available and was used in Korea and Vietnam. Having commanded a STA platoon in the USMC, the arguement about the bolt action vs the semiautomatic is sound: the bolt action is FAR superior for accuracy, but even today, Marine spotters are often equipped with an M21 (M14 sniper version) while the sniper is equipped with the Remington based 7.62 mm bolt action sniper rifle.

                When the Marine Corps began REforming sniper detachments during Vietnam, they used a wide selection of whatever was available (particularly the M1, the remington and the Wichester bolt action rifles that were accurised for high power match competitions and equipped with a variety of scopes with either the Uenertl or the Redfield scopes being the scopes of choice. Carlos Hathcock primarily used the remington and Mawinney preferred the Winchester.

                Tom <sithlord2@...> wrote:
                Yes, you do have a point, but fire off five rounds auto, fire 5
                rounds, bolt action, when you use a bolt action, you can control the
                casings flying out. Usually you would have a spotter with you,
                however, a good point was that, usually your very far away firing,
                and its not really an issue at that point. But as your closer to the
                enemy, it would matter, so shots would be fast, but reloading would
                be something you would work on to perfect, point taken, but grab a
                bolt action rifle, and reload, then fire a automatic rifle, the
                casing will fly, you can control the ejecting using a bolt action.
                But the reason to use bolt actions was do for better accuracy as
                well-

                No arguing about m14's they were in respect the first american used
                sniper rifles, before an actul Sniper detachments were formed, etc,
                as well as the 50 cal.

                If you use a full auto as a sniper rifle, flash suppressors would be
                needed to hide flash. Im not saying only sniper rifles are all bolt
                action, its just more practical to use a bolt action, instead of
                modifing a full auto, unless you have a m-14. Snipers dont want to
                get caught. The talk about casings on the ground isnt really a big
                issue, it was just a small point, most of the time, your not firing
                a suppressing fire down, so your shots are carefully aimed shots. Im
                not an expert or anything, or do I claim to be. Just have a little
                knowledge in the area.
                And Im specific, Im talking wargaming Vietnam, etc.

                Anyways Cheers!
                tom

                -- In SoloWarGame@yahoogroups.com, jim davis <jhdavis19@...> wrote:
                >
                > Tom, not to carp on a small point , but if I unjload 5
                > rounds from my bolt action in a just seconds where do
                > you think the brass goes?
                > And the M! and M14 are semi auto not full auto.
                > Most sniper rifles are bolt, not all.
                > Jim D
                >
                > --- Tom <sithlord2@...> wrote:
                >
                > > And may I add on a side note, using a fully auto
                > > rifle as a sniper
                > > rifle, one has to worry about the rounds ejecting
                > > from the weapon,
                > > even when you pull off one shot, you cant control
                > > the round
                > > ejecting, which being a sniper, you dont want to
                > > give your position
                > > up , by having brass casings all around you.
                > > Thus that is why bolt action rifles are used as
                > > sniper rifles. And a
                > > good sniper can unload 5 rounds on a moving target,
                > > all kills in
                > > just seconds, and be reloaded with a fresh mag,
                > > before the blood
                > > seeps out from the wounds.
                > > Cheers!
                > > tom
                > > --- In SoloWarGame@yahoogroups.com, "Tom"
                > > <sithlord2@> wrote:
                > > >
                > > > Hello,
                > > > the m40 (7.62mm) or a Remington 700 bolt action
                > > was the first
                > > sniper
                > > > rifle used, during Vietnam by , by manily marine
                > > snipers, and
                > > > special force, or LRRPs. And still used today, but
                > > the m40a3 is
                > > used
                > > > today in modern combat. Each had a 5 round mag.
                > > > As well as used by the army the M24, which is also
                > > a modified
                > > > Remington 700.
                > > > The SVD (7.62mm) sniper rifle and M-91/30 sniper
                > > rifles were used
                > > by
                > > > NVA snipers. Both had scopes and were both bolt
                > > action rifles with
                > > > magiznes. Both were 7.62mm, both russian made, in
                > > the 60's.
                > > >
                > > > All true sniper rifles are all bolt actions. But
                > > many rifles
                > > > obviously can be used as a sniper rifle, such as
                > > gas feed
                > > > automatics. Most autos are hard to use as sniper
                > > rifles do to the
                > > > fact that most AK's only fire on semi or full
                > > auto.
                > > > No AK has a mount for a scope, you have to go into
                > > the SKS, or the
                > > > SVD, that were designed as sniper rifles.
                > > >
                > > > later,
                > > > tom
                > > >
                > > > --- In SoloWarGame@yahoogroups.com, jim davis
                > > <jhdavis19@> wrote:
                > > > >
                > > > > You could make it harder on the sniper by
                > > equiping him
                > > > > with a bolt action rifle. I dont think there is
                > > a AK
                > > > > 47 sniper version. I dont think there is even
                > > an NK
                > > > > 47 target version,
                > > > > With a bolt he would be limited as to how
                > > quickly he
                > > > > could make follow up shots, or engage second
                > > targets.
                > > > > M14s do come in sniper versions,
                > > > > not sure how many snipers use them as opposed to
                > > the
                > > > > several bolt actions used by the US. But I
                > > think you
                > > > > are deploying a squad guy who has extra training
                > > > > rather than a dedicated sniper team. So he
                > > coudl
                > > > > carry the m14.
                > > > > Jim
                > > > > --- jim <easyjimy@> wrote:
                > > > >
                > > > > > well i have been doing alot of working on
                > > this. i
                > > > > > did this in away to
                > > > > > say keep the sniper out of range of most
                > > infantry.
                > > > > > plus most iraqs
                > > > > > realy are up and shoot and run. and i think
                > > most
                > > > > > that fire on squads
                > > > > > on patrol are useing ak.47 are some off the
                > > wall
                > > > > > gun. so the range idea
                > > > > > was to make it better. as in useing a scope.
                > > so if
                > > > > > your sniper has his
                > > > > > scope he can see things that the naked eye
                > > cant.
                > > > > > plus shoot that range.
                > > > > > so i took in alot of things. and when ieds are
                > > up
                > > > > > high are a long ways
                > > > > > away behind a wall well its hard to target him
                > > with
                > > > > > a infantry squad
                > > > > > that most are not carrying a scope . so with
                > > the -1
                > > > > > are 2 every 5 inchs
                > > > > > is real eye sight in some ways as to really
                > > seeing
                > > > > > the target that is
                > > > > > for away. are in a sand are snow storm are
                > > rain. the
                > > > > > numbers i give are
                > > > > > really up to you on what your numbers are i am
                > > just
                > > > > > trying to give some
                > > > > > ideas. i am glad its warming up also let the
                > > grass
                > > > > > grow . plus the
                > > > > > building sighting -1 per story its hard to see
                > > a
                > > > > > target up high from
                > > > > > ground level when under fire. anyway the
                > > shooting i
                > > > > > am working on now
                > > > > > to try and get a cool way to do both sight and
                > > > > > shoot. anyone have a
                > > > > > good idea to add to my sighting to do both
                > > feel
                > > > > > free. anyway i will be
                > > > > > around have a good night and watch out for
                > > trip
                > > > > > wires going for that
                > > > > > mid night walk jimy.
                > > > > >
                > > > > >
                > > > >
                > > > >
                > > > >
                > > > >
                > > > >
                > > >
                > >
                >
                __________________________________________________________
                > > > _______________
                > > > > Now that's room service! Choose from over
                > > 150,000 hotels
                > > > > in 45,000 destinations on Yahoo! Travel to find
                > > your fit.
                > > > >
                > > http://farechase.yahoo.com/promo-generic-14795097
                > > > >
                > > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                __________________________________________________________
                _______________
                > Looking for earth-friendly autos?
                > Browse Top Cars by "Green Rating" at Yahoo! Autos' Green Center.
                > http://autos.yahoo.com/green_center/
                >






                A good plan today is better than a perfect plan tomorrow.(George Patton)
                Knowledge is the acceptance of facts...Wisdom is the ability to use them well (me)
                Go, tell the Spartans, stranger passing by,
                That here, obedient to their laws, we lie.

                ---------------------------------
                Food fight? Enjoy some healthy debate
                in the Yahoo! Answers Food & Drink Q&A.

                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • jim davis
                Something on the news in last couple of days--someone just broke one of Hathcocks records. Legendary sniper Gunnery Sgt. Carlos N. Hathcock II was the first
                Message 7 of 9 , Mar 1, 2007
                  Something on the news in last couple of days--someone
                  just broke one of Hathcocks records.

                  "Legendary sniper Gunnery Sgt. Carlos N. Hathcock II
                  was the first person to ever use a .50 caliber weapon
                  in a sniping role. Utilizing a .50 caliber Browning
                  HMG with an 8-power telescope sight, he set the record
                  for the farthest confirmed kill by a sniper during the
                  Vietnam War, at 2,250 meters.

                  This feat of field craft by Sgt. Hathcock established
                  the viability of using .50-caliber ammunition as
                  usable and effective for sniper special operations.
                  Sgt. Hathcock’s record was broken only recently in
                  Afghanistan by a Canadian sniper team. The Canadian
                  snipers scored a chest shot at 2,430 meters using a
                  .50 caliber McMillian bolt-action rifle, with a 16
                  power Leupold telescope sight."


                  I cant even see that far.
                  Jim D






                  --- J Lowry <gunny0351@...> wrote:

                  > lol...FIRST MODERN American sniper rifle was the
                  > Springfiels M1908 (was used for sniping in WW1, WW2,
                  > Korea and a FEW were still in use for Vietnam. The
                  > next weapon was the M1 Garand which also had a scope
                  > available and was used in Korea and Vietnam.
                  > Having commanded a STA platoon in the USMC, the
                  > arguement about the bolt action vs the semiautomatic
                  > is sound: the bolt action is FAR superior for
                  > accuracy, but even today, Marine spotters are often
                  > equipped with an M21 (M14 sniper version) while the
                  > sniper is equipped with the Remington based 7.62 mm
                  > bolt action sniper rifle.
                  >
                  > When the Marine Corps began REforming sniper
                  > detachments during Vietnam, they used a wide
                  > selection of whatever was available (particularly
                  > the M1, the remington and the Wichester bolt action
                  > rifles that were accurised for high power match
                  > competitions and equipped with a variety of scopes
                  > with either the Uenertl or the Redfield scopes being
                  > the scopes of choice. Carlos Hathcock primarily
                  > used the remington and Mawinney preferred the
                  > Winchester.
                  >
                  > Tom <sithlord2@...> wrote:
                  > Yes, you do have a point, but fire off
                  > five rounds auto, fire 5
                  > rounds, bolt action, when you use a bolt action, you
                  > can control the
                  > casings flying out. Usually you would have a spotter
                  > with you,
                  > however, a good point was that, usually your very
                  > far away firing,
                  > and its not really an issue at that point. But as
                  > your closer to the
                  > enemy, it would matter, so shots would be fast, but
                  > reloading would
                  > be something you would work on to perfect, point
                  > taken, but grab a
                  > bolt action rifle, and reload, then fire a automatic
                  > rifle, the
                  > casing will fly, you can control the ejecting using
                  > a bolt action.
                  > But the reason to use bolt actions was do for better
                  > accuracy as
                  > well-
                  >
                  > No arguing about m14's they were in respect the
                  > first american used
                  > sniper rifles, before an actul Sniper detachments
                  > were formed, etc,
                  > as well as the 50 cal.
                  >
                  > If you use a full auto as a sniper rifle, flash
                  > suppressors would be
                  > needed to hide flash. Im not saying only sniper
                  > rifles are all bolt
                  > action, its just more practical to use a bolt
                  > action, instead of
                  > modifing a full auto, unless you have a m-14.
                  > Snipers dont want to
                  > get caught. The talk about casings on the ground
                  > isnt really a big
                  > issue, it was just a small point, most of the time,
                  > your not firing
                  > a suppressing fire down, so your shots are carefully
                  > aimed shots. Im
                  > not an expert or anything, or do I claim to be. Just
                  > have a little
                  > knowledge in the area.
                  > And Im specific, Im talking wargaming Vietnam, etc.
                  >
                  > Anyways Cheers!
                  > tom
                  >
                  > -- In SoloWarGame@yahoogroups.com, jim davis
                  > <jhdavis19@...> wrote:
                  > >
                  > > Tom, not to carp on a small point , but if I
                  > unjload 5
                  > > rounds from my bolt action in a just seconds where
                  > do
                  > > you think the brass goes?
                  > > And the M! and M14 are semi auto not full auto.
                  > > Most sniper rifles are bolt, not all.
                  > > Jim D
                  > >
                  > > --- Tom <sithlord2@...> wrote:
                  > >
                  > > > And may I add on a side note, using a fully auto
                  > > > rifle as a sniper
                  > > > rifle, one has to worry about the rounds
                  > ejecting
                  > > > from the weapon,
                  > > > even when you pull off one shot, you cant
                  > control
                  > > > the round
                  > > > ejecting, which being a sniper, you dont want to
                  > > > give your position
                  > > > up , by having brass casings all around you.
                  > > > Thus that is why bolt action rifles are used as
                  > > > sniper rifles. And a
                  > > > good sniper can unload 5 rounds on a moving
                  > target,
                  > > > all kills in
                  > > > just seconds, and be reloaded with a fresh mag,
                  > > > before the blood
                  > > > seeps out from the wounds.
                  > > > Cheers!
                  > > > tom
                  > > > --- In SoloWarGame@yahoogroups.com, "Tom"
                  > > > <sithlord2@> wrote:
                  > > > >
                  > > > > Hello,
                  > > > > the m40 (7.62mm) or a Remington 700 bolt
                  > action
                  > > > was the first
                  > > > sniper
                  > > > > rifle used, during Vietnam by , by manily
                  > marine
                  > > > snipers, and
                  > > > > special force, or LRRPs. And still used today,
                  > but
                  > > > the m40a3 is
                  > > > used
                  > > > > today in modern combat. Each had a 5 round
                  > mag.
                  > > > > As well as used by the army the M24, which is
                  > also
                  > > > a modified
                  > > > > Remington 700.
                  > > > > The SVD (7.62mm) sniper rifle and M-91/30
                  > sniper
                  > > > rifles were used
                  > > > by
                  > > > > NVA snipers. Both had scopes and were both
                  > bolt
                  > > > action rifles with
                  > > > > magiznes. Both were 7.62mm, both russian made,
                  > in
                  > > > the 60's.
                  > > > >
                  > > > > All true sniper rifles are all bolt actions.
                  > But
                  > > > many rifles
                  > > > > obviously can be used as a sniper rifle, such
                  > as
                  > > > gas feed
                  > > > > automatics. Most autos are hard to use as
                  > sniper
                  > > > rifles do to the
                  > > > > fact that most AK's only fire on semi or full
                  > > > auto.
                  > > > > No AK has a mount for a scope, you have to go
                  > into
                  > > > the SKS, or the
                  > > > > SVD, that were designed as sniper rifles.
                  > > > >
                  > > > > later,
                  > > > > tom
                  > > > >
                  > > > > --- In SoloWarGame@yahoogroups.com, jim davis
                  > > > <jhdavis19@> wrote:
                  > > > > >
                  > > > > > You could make it harder on the sniper by
                  > > > equiping him
                  > > > > > with a bolt action rifle. I dont think there
                  > is
                  > > > a AK
                  > > > > > 47 sniper version. I dont think there is
                  > even
                  > > > an NK
                  > > > > > 47 target version,
                  > > > > > With a bolt he would be limited as to how
                  > > > quickly he
                  > > > > > could make follow up shots, or engage second
                  > > > targets.
                  > > > > > M14s do come in sniper versions,
                  > > > > > not sure how many snipers use them as
                  > opposed to
                  > > > the
                  > > > > > several bolt actions used by the US. But I
                  > > > think you
                  > > > > > are deploying a squad guy who has extra
                  > training
                  > > > > > rather than a dedicated sniper team. So he
                  > > > coudl
                  > > > > > carry the m14.
                  > > > > > Jim
                  > > > > > --- jim <easyjimy@> wrote:
                  > > > > >
                  > > > > > > well i have been doing alot of working on
                  > > > this. i
                  > > > > > > did this in away to
                  > > > > > > say keep the sniper out of range of most
                  > > > infantry.
                  > > > > > > plus most iraqs
                  > > > > > > realy are up and shoot and run. and i
                  > think
                  > > > most
                  > > > > > > that fire on squads
                  > > > > > > on patrol are useing ak.47 are some off
                  > the
                  > > > wall
                  > > > > > > gun. so the range idea
                  > > > > > > was to make it better. as in useing a
                  > scope.
                  > > > so if
                  > > > > > > your sniper has his
                  > > > > > > scope he can see things that the naked eye
                  > > > cant.
                  > > > > > > plus shoot that range.
                  > > > > > > so i took in alot of things. and when ieds
                  > are
                  > > > up
                  > > > > > > high are a long ways
                  > > > > > > away behind a wall well its hard to target
                  > him
                  > > > with
                  > > > > > > a infantry squad
                  > > > > > > that most are not carrying a scope . so
                  > with
                  > > > the -1
                  > > > > > > are 2 every 5 inchs
                  > > > > > > is real eye sight in some ways as to
                  > really
                  > > > seeing
                  > > > > > > the target that is
                  > > > > > > for away. are in a sand are snow storm are
                  > > > rain. the
                  > > > > > > numbers i give are
                  > > > > > > really up to you on what your numbers are
                  > i am
                  > > > just
                  > > > > > > trying to give some
                  > > > > > > ideas. i am glad its warming up also let
                  > the
                  > > > grass
                  > > > > > > grow . plus the
                  > > > > > > building sighting -1 per story its hard to
                  > see
                  > > > a
                  > > > > > > target up high from
                  > > > > > > ground level when under fire. anyway the
                  > > > shooting i
                  > > > > > > am working on now
                  > > > > > > to try and get a cool way to do both sight
                  > and
                  > > > > > > shoot. anyone have a
                  > > > > > > good idea to add to my sighting to do both
                  > > > feel
                  > > > > > > free. anyway i will be
                  > > > > > > around have a good night and watch out for
                  > > > trip
                  > > > > > > wires going for that
                  > > > > > > mid night walk jimy.
                  > > > > > >
                  > > > > > >
                  > > > > >
                  > > > > >
                  > > > > >
                  > > > > >
                  > > > > >
                  > > > >
                  > > >
                  > >
                  >
                  __________________________________________________________
                  > > > > _______________
                  > > > > > Now that's room service! Choose from over
                  > > > 150,000 hotels
                  > > > > > in 45,000 destinations on Yahoo! Travel to
                  > find
                  > > > your fit.
                  > > > > >
                  > > >
                  > http://farechase.yahoo.com/promo-generic-14795097
                  > > > > >
                  > > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  >
                  __________________________________________________________
                  > _______________
                  > > Looking for earth-friendly autos?
                  > > Browse Top Cars by "Green Rating" at Yahoo! Autos'
                  > Green Center.
                  > > http://autos.yahoo.com/green_center/
                  > >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > A good plan today is better than a perfect plan
                  > tomorrow.(George Patton)
                  > Knowledge is the acceptance of facts...Wisdom is the
                  > ability to use them well (me)
                  > Go, tell the Spartans, stranger passing by,
                  > That here, obedient to their laws, we lie.
                  >
                  > ---------------------------------
                  > Food fight? Enjoy some healthy debate
                  > in the Yahoo! Answers Food & Drink Q&A.
                  >
                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been
                  > removed]
                  >
                  >




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