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Re: [SoloWarGame] Help with an opposing force generation mechanic

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  • jim davis
    write up 52 forces, assign them to cards, draw 52 maps, assign these to cards. shuffle terrain deck and lay out on table, or on grid to represent table. move
    Message 1 of 6 , Nov 28, 2002
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      write up 52 forces, assign them to cards, draw 52
      maps, assign these to cards. shuffle terrain deck and
      lay out on table, or on grid to represent table.
      move your recon unit from area to area, turn onver
      card and see what terrain is. roll die, decide on
      what die roll you turn over a card form the forces
      deck.

      JIm
      --- Andy Cowell <andy@...> wrote:
      >
      > I'd like to run a sort of "recon" solo game, where
      > the size, location
      > and composition of my opponent is totally unknown to
      > me (as I am a
      > notorious cheat in my solo games!) The simplest
      > mechanism to achieve
      > this would probably be to create several enemy
      > forces, place chits for
      > each unit in identical containers, and select one
      > container (and thus
      > force) at random. There would be some mechanism for
      > selecting when to
      > place opponents onto the table, and when necessary,
      > I would draw one
      > unit chit at random from my randomly selected force.
      >
      > This is fine, but I would like something a bit more
      > open ended. With
      > this mechanism, all forces are equally likely, and
      > you can't weight
      > your selection (e.g., 20% a squad, 50% a platoon,
      > 25% a company, 5% a
      > battalion) without giving away the force selected.
      > Also, I would like
      > the possibility of a combiniation of forces
      > automatically (e.g., a
      > tank platoon and an infantry platoon when both
      > platoons were entered
      > singly, making it easier on me). I thought of
      > something like a
      > "choose your own adventure" style path to track the
      > enemy, but frankly
      > it quickly gets very complicated and would be a huge
      > pain to do by
      > hand. Has anybody seen any ideas like this, or does
      > anything jump out
      > at you? Thanks.
      >
      >
      > P.S. My thought on integrating this with rules would
      > be something
      > simple, like this: at a designated point in the
      > turn, roll 2d6 for
      > each piece of terrain that might hold an enemy unit.
      > On a 10 or more,
      > reveal a unit in that terrain. For terrain at
      > "medium" spotting
      > distance, 11 or more; for "long" distance, a 12.
      > For terrain already
      > "cleared" by passing friendly forces through it,
      > only on a 12. I like
      > the way this presents the opponent as it should be--
      > totally unknown.
      > If you roll a 12 on cleared terrain, obviously this
      > was a flanking
      > unit that had been moving around you. No way you
      > could have reacted
      > to that suspicious hidden counter circling around
      > you!
      >
      >
      > --
      > "...we here highly resolve these dead shall not have
      > died in vain...
      > that government of the people, by the people, for
      > the people, shall
      > not perish from the earth." --Abraham Lincoln
      >
      > Community email addresses:
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      >
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      >
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      > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
      >
      >


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    • Andy Cowell
      In message , jim davis writ ... These are good ideas, but don t address the concept that I don t want to
      Message 2 of 6 , Dec 3, 2002
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        In message <20021129062140.57077.qmail@...>, jim davis writ
        es:
        > write up 52 forces, assign them to cards, draw 52 maps, assign these
        > to cards. shuffle terrain deck and lay out on table, or on grid to
        > represent table. move your recon unit from area to area, turn onver
        > card and see what terrain is. roll die, decide on what die roll you
        > turn over a card form the forces deck.

        These are good ideas, but don't address the concept that I don't want
        to know what force I am facing. For example, I might be opposed by a
        squad, a platoon, a company, a battalion, or an infantry reinforced
        tank company, and after discovering a squad on the table, I still
        don't know. It seems to me that if I'm drawing cards to see what I'm
        facing, I can always refer to the reference table and see exactly what
        possible compositions my opponent might have. I wouldn't be able to
        resist. ;-)

        Maybe I'm placing too much emphasis on trying to match a real-world
        TO&Es. I could just take whatever is randomly generated, but I'd
        prefer to follow TO&Es. Yes, I agree real world forces didn't follow
        paper TO&Es, but they weren't generally random, either.

        I like the idea for the terrain, though. I had planned to use the
        multiple maps like Programmed Wargame Scenarios, but I can see a place
        for both.

        --
        "...we here highly resolve these dead shall not have died in vain...
        that government of the people, by the people, for the people, shall
        not perish from the earth." --Abraham Lincoln



        --
        "...we here highly resolve these dead shall not have died in vain...
        that government of the people, by the people, for the people, shall
        not perish from the earth." --Abraham Lincoln



        --
        "...we here highly resolve these dead shall not have died in vain...
        that government of the people, by the people, for the people, shall
        not perish from the earth." --Abraham Lincoln
      • jim davis
        Make up as many forces as you think reasonable 52 being easy to work with, have your chart made but shuffle several decks of cards together. Now you have
        Message 3 of 6 , Dec 3, 2002
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          Make up as many forces as you think reasonable 52
          being easy to work with, have your chart made but
          shuffle several decks of cards together. Now you have
          multiples of any one unit. Or make up as many as you
          want, and write them on the cards, (several decks so
          yu again have multiples) cut the deck and put part
          into a box, shuffle out number needed. At that point
          you should have no idea what is coming. The other
          alternative is to do about the same on a computer and
          have it choose.
          Jim
          --- Andy Cowell <andy@...> wrote:
          > In message
          >
          <20021129062140.57077.qmail@...>,
          > jim davis writ
          > es:
          > > write up 52 forces, assign them to cards, draw 52
          > maps, assign these
          > > to cards. shuffle terrain deck and lay out on
          > table, or on grid to
          > > represent table. move your recon unit from area
          > to area, turn onver
          > > card and see what terrain is. roll die, decide on
          > what die roll you
          > > turn over a card form the forces deck.
          >
          > These are good ideas, but don't address the concept
          > that I don't want
          > to know what force I am facing. For example, I
          > might be opposed by a
          > squad, a platoon, a company, a battalion, or an
          > infantry reinforced
          > tank company, and after discovering a squad on the
          > table, I still
          > don't know. It seems to me that if I'm drawing
          > cards to see what I'm
          > facing, I can always refer to the reference table
          > and see exactly what
          > possible compositions my opponent might have. I
          > wouldn't be able to
          > resist. ;-)
          >
          > Maybe I'm placing too much emphasis on trying to
          > match a real-world
          > TO&Es. I could just take whatever is randomly
          > generated, but I'd
          > prefer to follow TO&Es. Yes, I agree real world
          > forces didn't follow
          > paper TO&Es, but they weren't generally random,
          > either.
          >
          > I like the idea for the terrain, though. I had
          > planned to use the
          > multiple maps like Programmed Wargame Scenarios, but
          > I can see a place
          > for both.
          >
          > --
          > "...we here highly resolve these dead shall not have
          > died in vain...
          > that government of the people, by the people, for
          > the people, shall
          > not perish from the earth." --Abraham Lincoln
          >
          >
          >
          > --
          > "...we here highly resolve these dead shall not have
          > died in vain...
          > that government of the people, by the people, for
          > the people, shall
          > not perish from the earth." --Abraham Lincoln
          >
          >
          >
          > --
          > "...we here highly resolve these dead shall not have
          > died in vain...
          > that government of the people, by the people, for
          > the people, shall
          > not perish from the earth." --Abraham Lincoln
          >
          >
          > Community email addresses:
          > Post message: SoloWarGame@onelist.com
          > Subscribe: SoloWarGame-subscribe@onelist.com
          > Unsubscribe: SoloWarGame-unsubscribe@onelist.com
          > List owner: SoloWarGame-owner@onelist.com
          >
          > Shortcut URL to this page:
          > http://www.onelist.com/community/SoloWarGame
          >
          > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
          > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
          >
          >


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        • Ed Lizak
          Start with the 52 cards. Define define black as real units and red as fake. Define clubs and hearts as armor cards and spades and diamonds as infantry cards.
          Message 4 of 6 , Dec 3, 2002
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            Start with the 52 cards. Define define black as real units and red as fake.
            Define clubs and hearts as armor cards and spades and diamonds as infantry
            cards. Mix in jokers for special events (enemy air strike?), units (HQ?),
            or whatever (civilians?).

            Place cards in all possible locations where you might find the enemy and
            reveal when appropriate. You don't know what you are facing until the
            battle is over. (i.e. If you encountered 7 infantry squads and 3 tanks -
            you just fought a company with an attached armor platoon.)

            Sure it's not really following an official TO&E but it will more often than
            not fit into one (at least as close as real armies end up at times). At
            least you have the benefit of totally not knowing if you will face a couple
            of squads or two companies or (more likely) something in between.

            Vary the ratio of armor to infantry and fake to real units to fit your
            taste.

            -EJL




            ----- Original Message -----
            From: "Andy Cowell" <andy@...>
            To: <SoloWarGame@yahoogroups.com>
            Sent: Tuesday, December 03, 2002 11:39 AM
            Subject: Re: [SoloWarGame] Help with an opposing force generation mechanic


            > In message <20021129062140.57077.qmail@...>, jim davis
            writ
            > es:
            > > write up 52 forces, assign them to cards, draw 52 maps, assign these
            > > to cards. shuffle terrain deck and lay out on table, or on grid to
            > > represent table. move your recon unit from area to area, turn onver
            > > card and see what terrain is. roll die, decide on what die roll you
            > > turn over a card form the forces deck.
            >
            > These are good ideas, but don't address the concept that I don't want
            > to know what force I am facing. For example, I might be opposed by a
            > squad, a platoon, a company, a battalion, or an infantry reinforced
            > tank company, and after discovering a squad on the table, I still
            > don't know. It seems to me that if I'm drawing cards to see what I'm
            > facing, I can always refer to the reference table and see exactly what
            > possible compositions my opponent might have. I wouldn't be able to
            > resist. ;-)
            >
            > Maybe I'm placing too much emphasis on trying to match a real-world
            > TO&Es. I could just take whatever is randomly generated, but I'd
            > prefer to follow TO&Es. Yes, I agree real world forces didn't follow
            > paper TO&Es, but they weren't generally random, either.
            >
            > I like the idea for the terrain, though. I had planned to use the
            > multiple maps like Programmed Wargame Scenarios, but I can see a place
            > for both.
            >
            > --
            > "...we here highly resolve these dead shall not have died in vain...
            > that government of the people, by the people, for the people, shall
            > not perish from the earth." --Abraham Lincoln
            >
            >
            >
            > --
            > "...we here highly resolve these dead shall not have died in vain...
            > that government of the people, by the people, for the people, shall
            > not perish from the earth." --Abraham Lincoln
            >
            >
            >
            > --
            > "...we here highly resolve these dead shall not have died in vain...
            > that government of the people, by the people, for the people, shall
            > not perish from the earth." --Abraham Lincoln
            >
            >
            > Community email addresses:
            > Post message: SoloWarGame@onelist.com
            > Subscribe: SoloWarGame-subscribe@onelist.com
            > Unsubscribe: SoloWarGame-unsubscribe@onelist.com
            > List owner: SoloWarGame-owner@onelist.com
            >
            > Shortcut URL to this page:
            > http://www.onelist.com/community/SoloWarGame
            >
            > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
            >
            >
          • Thomo the Lost Chilling
            Indeed, if you really really want a TO&E organisation, then draw a couple of possible TO&E you could be facing. Then, break eack of those TO&E s down into
            Message 5 of 6 , Dec 3, 2002
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              Indeed, if you really really want a TO&E organisation, then draw a couple of
              possible TO&E you could be facing.

              Then, break eack of those TO&E's down into their components (battalions down
              to companies, companies down to platoons etc) and assign each of those
              compnents a card from the deck. Do this for each of the full TO&E's you
              decided are likely in the area.

              Now the randomising begins.

              When you are first likely to contact or be spotted, randomly select which
              TO&E you will be facing. Yes, you will then know what you are up against -
              sort of. Follow Ed's suggesting then by putting down the cards and slipping
              them to see what is in there (you've already assigned the component parts in
              the setup).

              Randomises it somewhat and results in some days facing a Varus, other days
              facing a Scipio :-)

              Cheers, Thomo the Lost
              Thomo's Hole temporarily at:
              http://thomo.coldie.net
              Mobile Phone: +44 780 323 0529
              or try: +82 11 9702 4264
              Fax: +82 2 539 8223
              "A jester unemployed is nobody's fool!"


              > -----Original Message-----
              > From: Ed Lizak [mailto:ejl@...]
              > Sent: Wednesday, 04 December, 2002 10:14 AM
              > To: SoloWarGame@yahoogroups.com
              > Subject: Re: [SoloWarGame] Help with an opposing force generation
              > mechanic
              >
              >
              > Start with the 52 cards. Define define black as real units and
              > red as fake.
              > Define clubs and hearts as armor cards and spades and diamonds as infantry
              > cards. Mix in jokers for special events (enemy air strike?), units (HQ?),
              > or whatever (civilians?).
              >
              > Place cards in all possible locations where you might find the enemy and
              > reveal when appropriate. You don't know what you are facing until the
              > battle is over. (i.e. If you encountered 7 infantry squads and 3 tanks -
              > you just fought a company with an attached armor platoon.)
              >
              > Sure it's not really following an official TO&E but it will more
              > often than
              > not fit into one (at least as close as real armies end up at times). At
              > least you have the benefit of totally not knowing if you will
              > face a couple
              > of squads or two companies or (more likely) something in between.
              >
              > Vary the ratio of armor to infantry and fake to real units to fit your
              > taste.
              >
              > -EJL
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > ----- Original Message -----
              > From: "Andy Cowell" <andy@...>
              > To: <SoloWarGame@yahoogroups.com>
              > Sent: Tuesday, December 03, 2002 11:39 AM
              > Subject: Re: [SoloWarGame] Help with an opposing force generation mechanic
              >
              >
              > > In message
              > <20021129062140.57077.qmail@...>, jim davis
              > writ
              > > es:
              > > > write up 52 forces, assign them to cards, draw 52 maps, assign these
              > > > to cards. shuffle terrain deck and lay out on table, or on grid to
              > > > represent table. move your recon unit from area to area, turn onver
              > > > card and see what terrain is. roll die, decide on what die roll you
              > > > turn over a card form the forces deck.
              > >
              > > These are good ideas, but don't address the concept that I don't want
              > > to know what force I am facing. For example, I might be opposed by a
              > > squad, a platoon, a company, a battalion, or an infantry reinforced
              > > tank company, and after discovering a squad on the table, I still
              > > don't know. It seems to me that if I'm drawing cards to see what I'm
              > > facing, I can always refer to the reference table and see exactly what
              > > possible compositions my opponent might have. I wouldn't be able to
              > > resist. ;-)
              > >
              > > Maybe I'm placing too much emphasis on trying to match a real-world
              > > TO&Es. I could just take whatever is randomly generated, but I'd
              > > prefer to follow TO&Es. Yes, I agree real world forces didn't follow
              > > paper TO&Es, but they weren't generally random, either.
              > >
              > > I like the idea for the terrain, though. I had planned to use the
              > > multiple maps like Programmed Wargame Scenarios, but I can see a place
              > > for both.
              > >
              > > --
              > > "...we here highly resolve these dead shall not have died in vain...
              > > that government of the people, by the people, for the people, shall
              > > not perish from the earth." --Abraham Lincoln
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > --
              > > "...we here highly resolve these dead shall not have died in vain...
              > > that government of the people, by the people, for the people, shall
              > > not perish from the earth." --Abraham Lincoln
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > --
              > > "...we here highly resolve these dead shall not have died in vain...
              > > that government of the people, by the people, for the people, shall
              > > not perish from the earth." --Abraham Lincoln
              > >
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