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RE: [Soldados] Re: Prototype Spanish Cartridge boxes

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  • Eric Paul Ziegler
    David, That’s my memory of the conversation, too. I’m leaning towards the saddlebags or the pockets, personally. Zieg Eric Paul Ziegler Double E Farm
    Message 1 of 4 , Oct 30, 2009
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      David,

      That’s my memory of the conversation, too. I’m leaning towards the
      saddlebags or the pockets, personally.

      Zieg

      Eric Paul Ziegler
      Double E Farm
      Elizabeth CO
      classicalequitation@...

      ________________________________________
      From: Soldados@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Soldados@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
      Of drickman1
      Sent: Friday, 30 October, 2009 12:40 PM
      To: Soldados@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: [Soldados] Re: Prototype Spanish Cartridge boxes

       
      Hello Zieg,
      I think what I told you earlier was that there was no regulation cartridge
      carrier for soldados de cuera in the mid-18th century. There are at least
      two reasons for this, one certain and one surmised. The certain reason is
      that there were no regulations for cuera equipment and uniforms before 1772
      - thus no official pattern existed. The surmise is that while they carried
      cartridges, no image of a cuera shows what the carrier looked like. Our
      clearest image is by Father Tirsch in Baja, c. 1765, and he shows
      fully-equipped cueras, both mounted and dismounted, wearing cueras and
      without any sign of a cartridge box about their persons. Either they wore
      the carrier under the cuera, or else they did not use them at all. Clearly,
      if they wore the carrier under their cueras, they would need it to wear it
      around their waists, gaining access to the cartridges by unlacing their
      cueras - and this is not impossible, but seems unlikely. I suggested that
      instead, the soldados carried a few extra cartridges in his cuera pockets
      (as mentioned in a letter that actually post-dates the 1772 regulations) or
      else they carried them on the saddle, in their saddlebags perhaps.

      If you must have a cartridge box of some kind, I would suggest a small box
      of the kind used by Spanish dragoons, slung from a shoulder strap on your
      left side (at least, that is where it always appears on pictures of Spanish
      dragoons). You could technically get away with a canana - a covered
      cartridge belt - because they appear on official pictures of Lanceros de
      Veracruz in the 1760s.

      I do not recommend a belly box with a wooden block or metal trays. Those are
      infantry boxes, not cavalry.

      David

      --- In Soldados@yahoogroups.com, "Eric Paul Ziegler" <thezieg@...> wrote:
      >
      > Great news, Charlie! We can never have enough sources for our equipment.
      >
      > Forgive the hijacking of this thread, but . . . This reminds me, did we
      > ever settle the issue of mounted soldados carrying cartridges in the
      mid-18h
      > century? We had the suggestion of a handful of cartridges in the pockets
      of
      > the cuera, but there wasn't much else, I recall. From what David Rickman
      > wrote back then about the primary sources telling us how much powder and
      > shot a soldado de cuera would have possessed, there just wasn't a lot of
      > shooting going on, I gather. They certainly didn't seem to have had enough
      > to practice much with (I'll recheck those posts to see if I'm remembering
      it
      > correctly).
      >
      > Which is fine with me, as it's one less thing I have to get for my
      > impression!
      >
      > Zieg
      >
      > Eric Paul Ziegler
      > Double E Farm
      > Elizabeth CO
      > classicalequitation@...
      >
      > ________________________________________
      > From: Soldados@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Soldados@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
      > Of moosenmoo35244
      > Sent: Thursday, 29 October, 2009 3:55 PM
      > To: Soldados@yahoogroups.com
      > Subject: [Soldados] Prototype Spanish Cartridge boxes
      >
      >  
      > David Scroggins has finished the prototype boxes. I own 10 Scroggins
      > cartridge boxes of various areas and this is absolutely the best work I've
      > seen him do. The pictures don't do them justice. The stamp turned out very
      > nice.
      > Photos are in the photos section in a folder called Scroggins Spanish
      boxes
      >
      > There are two types of sets:
      > Black Infantry box with brass rings and natural sling (the sling is
      > adjustable by a leather strip) $170
      > Natural Baldric with Spanish brass buckle $65
      > He can sell a set for $225 with shipping.
      >
      > Black Belly Box $95
      > Natural Belt with brass buckle $35
      > Black Bayonet Frog $25
      > He can sell a set for $145 with shipping.
      >
      > David says he can do the sets in black, brown or natural.
      >
      > His contact is papascrogg@...
      > (papascrogg at hotmail.com)
      >
      > David will be a vendor at The Siege of Fort Charlotte.
      >
      > OK, I've done my part. This means that the excuse of not having a source
      for
      > researched correct cartridge boxes is no longer valid. The rest is up to
      > you.
      >
      > Charlie McCulloh
      >
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