Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Re: Swords: Models 1796 and 1728

Expand Messages
  • the_zieg
    Additional info: According to Juan Perez, the 1796 pattern is only called the 1796 because it was listed in the regulations of 1796. It certainly existed
    Message 1 of 23 , Oct 8, 2009
    • 0 Attachment
      Additional info:

      According to Juan Perez, the 1796 pattern is only called the 1796 because it was listed in the regulations of 1796. It certainly existed before then. They are difficult to date, but I don't think it would be unusual to have one for an Am. Rev. impression. I will ask Sr. Perez directly on this point.

      Zieg

      Eric Paul Ziegler
      Double E Farm
      Elizabeth CO
      classicalequitation@...

      --- In Soldados@yahoogroups.com, Martin Britt <realista1810@...> wrote:
      >
      > Sr. Dn. Franco,
      > Do you perhaps have a Spanish sword from the period of the American Revolution you could sell or can you recommend a source?
      >  
      > Un Cordial Saludo
      > Martin <><
      >
      > --- On Thu, 10/8/09, Frank Martinez IV <soldadomestizo@...> wrote:
      >
      >
      > From: Frank Martinez IV <soldadomestizo@...>
      > Subject: Re: [Soldados] Swords: Models 1796 and 1728
      > To: Soldados@yahoogroups.com
      > Date: Thursday, October 8, 2009, 4:41 AM
      >
      >
      >  
      >
      >
      >
      > Al El Zieg,
      >     Hombre, could you put that link and your personal opionion in the links section of the website?  Especially if you end up ordering one (Uh, "Thou Shalt Not Covet Thy Vecino's Sword").  I love that thing.  Mayhaps I'll have to sell one of my other ones to get me one of them!
      >     iv
      >
      >  
      >
      > ____________ _________ _________ __
      > From: the_zieg <thezieg@myedl. com>
      > To: Soldados@yahoogroup s.com
      > Sent: Wed, October 7, 2009 7:41:28 AM
      > Subject: [Soldados] Swords: Models 1796 and 1728
      >
      >  
      > Soldados,
      >
      > Windlass Steelcrafts (out of India) has produced a replica of the 1796 cavalry sword. http://www.museumre plicas.com/ p-1031-spanish- bilbo-cut- thrust.aspx
      >
      > Likes: The blade dimensions are correct. The hilt overall looks right. The price, while not exciting, is not over the top at around $250. It comes with a scabbard.
      >
      > Dislikes: They've mislabeled it (no doubt out of a combination of ignorance and a desire to expand its range of appeal) as a "Spanish Bilbo Rapier" and "Spanish Bilbo Cut & Thrust." The quillions appear a bit over-bent. There are no fullers to the blade so it's apt to be a bit heavy.
      >
      > Now, excepting the cup, this sword is a dead ringer for the 1728 model. I'm trying to get in touch with Windlass (directly and via intermediaries) to see whether they can come up with the earlier, "boca de caballo" shells that will be correct for the 1728. If I can suggest that there's a market for it amongst the reenactors here, we might just be able to get this thing made.
      >
      > Reply to this thread whether you'd be interested.
      >
      > Zieg
      >
      > Eric Paul Ziegler
      > Double E Farm
      > Elizabeth CO
      >
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >
    • Bruno Willinski
      Gentlemen, The big question for me is would this be something at an 1840 s Californio might have? BW ________________________________ From: the_zieg
      Message 2 of 23 , Oct 8, 2009
      • 0 Attachment
        Gentlemen,

        The big question for me is would this be something at an 1840's Californio might have?

        BW




        ________________________________
        From: the_zieg <thezieg@...>
        To: Soldados@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Thu, October 8, 2009 12:26:36 PM
        Subject: [Soldados] Re: Swords: Models 1796 and 1728

         
        Additional info:

        According to Juan Perez, the 1796 pattern is only called the 1796 because it was listed in the regulations of 1796. It certainly existed before then. They are difficult to date, but I don't think it would be unusual to have one for an Am. Rev. impression. I will ask Sr. Perez directly on this point.

        Zieg

        Eric Paul Ziegler
        Double E Farm
        Elizabeth CO
        classicalequitation @...

        --- In Soldados@yahoogroup s.com, Martin Britt <realista1810@ ...> wrote:
        >
        > Sr. Dn. Franco,
        > Do you perhaps have a Spanish sword from the period of the American Revolution you could sell or can you recommend a source?
        >  
        > Un Cordial Saludo
        > Martin <><
        >
        > --- On Thu, 10/8/09, Frank Martinez IV <soldadomestizo@ ...> wrote:
        >
        >
        > From: Frank Martinez IV <soldadomestizo@ ...>
        > Subject: Re: [Soldados] Swords: Models 1796 and 1728
        > To: Soldados@yahoogroup s.com
        > Date: Thursday, October 8, 2009, 4:41 AM
        >
        >
        >  
        >
        >
        >
        > Al El Zieg,
        >     Hombre, could you put that link and your personal opionion in the links section of the website?  Especially if you end up ordering one (Uh, "Thou Shalt Not Covet Thy Vecino's Sword").  I love that thing.  Mayhaps I'll have to sell one of my other ones to get me one of them!
        >     iv
        >
        >  
        >
        > ____________ _________ _________ __
        > From: the_zieg <thezieg@myedl. com>
        > To: Soldados@yahoogroup s.com
        > Sent: Wed, October 7, 2009 7:41:28 AM
        > Subject: [Soldados] Swords: Models 1796 and 1728
        >
        >  
        > Soldados,
        >
        > Windlass Steelcrafts (out of India) has produced a replica of the 1796 cavalry sword. http://www.museumre plicas.com/ p-1031-spanish- bilbo-cut- thrust.aspx
        >
        > Likes: The blade dimensions are correct. The hilt overall looks right. The price, while not exciting, is not over the top at around $250. It comes with a scabbard.
        >
        > Dislikes: They've mislabeled it (no doubt out of a combination of ignorance and a desire to expand its range of appeal) as a "Spanish Bilbo Rapier" and "Spanish Bilbo Cut & Thrust." The quillions appear a bit over-bent. There are no fullers to the blade so it's apt to be a bit heavy.
        >
        > Now, excepting the cup, this sword is a dead ringer for the 1728 model. I'm trying to get in touch with Windlass (directly and via intermediaries) to see whether they can come up with the earlier, "boca de caballo" shells that will be correct for the 1728. If I can suggest that there's a market for it amongst the reenactors here, we might just be able to get this thing made.
        >
        > Reply to this thread whether you'd be interested.
        >
        > Zieg
        >
        > Eric Paul Ziegler
        > Double E Farm
        > Elizabeth CO
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >







        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Rick Collins
        Incredibly possible, but you could get a number of correct swords with 2 and 3 bar bras or iron hilts that look like would be alike. Even a Starr or 1830
        Message 3 of 23 , Oct 8, 2009
        • 0 Attachment
          Incredibly possible, but you could get a number of correct swords with 2
          and 3 bar bras or iron hilts that look like would be alike. Even a Starr
          or 1830 dragoon saber would be wonderful. If you want to do something
          fun and correct then cover the hilt in leather.



          Rick, Presidio del Tucson

          ________________________________

          From: Soldados@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Soldados@yahoogroups.com] On
          Behalf Of Bruno Willinski
          Sent: 2009-10-08 12:49
          To: Soldados@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: Re: [Soldados] Re: Swords: Models 1796 and 1728





          Gentlemen,

          The big question for me is would this be something at an 1840's
          Californio might have?

          BW

          ________________________________
          From: the_zieg <thezieg@... <mailto:thezieg%40myedl.com> >
          To: Soldados@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Soldados%40yahoogroups.com>
          Sent: Thu, October 8, 2009 12:26:36 PM
          Subject: [Soldados] Re: Swords: Models 1796 and 1728


          Additional info:

          According to Juan Perez, the 1796 pattern is only called the 1796
          because it was listed in the regulations of 1796. It certainly existed
          before then. They are difficult to date, but I don't think it would be
          unusual to have one for an Am. Rev. impression. I will ask Sr. Perez
          directly on this point.

          Zieg

          Eric Paul Ziegler
          Double E Farm
          Elizabeth CO
          classicalequitation @...

          --- In Soldados@yahoogroup s.com, Martin Britt <realista1810@ ...>
          wrote:
          >
          > Sr. Dn. Franco,
          > Do you perhaps have a Spanish sword from the period of the American
          Revolution you could sell or can you recommend a source?
          >
          > Un Cordial Saludo
          > Martin <><
          >
          > --- On Thu, 10/8/09, Frank Martinez IV <soldadomestizo@ ...> wrote:
          >
          >
          > From: Frank Martinez IV <soldadomestizo@ ...>
          > Subject: Re: [Soldados] Swords: Models 1796 and 1728
          > To: Soldados@yahoogroup s.com
          > Date: Thursday, October 8, 2009, 4:41 AM
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > Al El Zieg,
          > Hombre, could you put that link and your personal opionion in the
          links section of the website? Especially if you end up ordering one
          (Uh, "Thou Shalt Not Covet Thy Vecino's Sword"). I love that thing.
          Mayhaps I'll have to sell one of my other ones to get me one of them!
          > iv
          >
          >
          >
          > ____________ _________ _________ __
          > From: the_zieg <thezieg@myedl. com>
          > To: Soldados@yahoogroup s.com
          > Sent: Wed, October 7, 2009 7:41:28 AM
          > Subject: [Soldados] Swords: Models 1796 and 1728
          >
          >
          > Soldados,
          >
          > Windlass Steelcrafts (out of India) has produced a replica of the 1796
          cavalry sword. http://www.museumre plicas.com/ p-1031-spanish-
          bilbo-cut- thrust.aspx
          >
          > Likes: The blade dimensions are correct. The hilt overall looks right.
          The price, while not exciting, is not over the top at around $250. It
          comes with a scabbard.
          >
          > Dislikes: They've mislabeled it (no doubt out of a combination of
          ignorance and a desire to expand its range of appeal) as a "Spanish
          Bilbo Rapier" and "Spanish Bilbo Cut & Thrust." The quillions appear a
          bit over-bent. There are no fullers to the blade so it's apt to be a bit
          heavy.
          >
          > Now, excepting the cup, this sword is a dead ringer for the 1728
          model. I'm trying to get in touch with Windlass (directly and via
          intermediaries) to see whether they can come up with the earlier, "boca
          de caballo" shells that will be correct for the 1728. If I can suggest
          that there's a market for it amongst the reenactors here, we might just
          be able to get this thing made.
          >
          > Reply to this thread whether you'd be interested.
          >
          > Zieg
          >
          > Eric Paul Ziegler
          > Double E Farm
          > Elizabeth CO
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >

          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Frank Martinez IV
          Yeah, but for 87 bucks, it would be a big hit with a budget.  I have something similar (I think you ve seen it, Rick) with a cheap blade and a scabbard, in
          Message 4 of 23 , Oct 8, 2009
          • 0 Attachment
            Yeah, but for 87 bucks, it would be a big hit with a budget.  I have something similar (I think you've seen it, Rick) with a cheap blade and a scabbard, in white rather than brass (it ain't silver, that's for sure).  And it's obviously the tourist model.  But it's better than a sharp stick in the eye (hmm, gotta think about that.  The point is definately sharp).  But yeah, the one that El Zeig has found is cool, cool, cool!
                iv




            ________________________________
            From: Rick Collins <rickc@...>
            To: Soldados@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Thu, October 8, 2009 9:19:45 AM
            Subject: RE: [Soldados] Swords: Models 1796 and 1728

             
            I hesitantly toss this out there at the risk of being pummeled. It has a
            brass hilt which would make it extremely rare, and the blade is cheap,
            but for something to wear on your side, it will do. There is nothing
            like it for the pre 1796 blade posted by Zieg. It does not come with a
            scabbard, which I'm trying to find a source for.

            http://www.a2armory .com/cuprap. htm

            Rick, Tucson Presidio

            ____________ _________ _________ __

            From: Soldados@yahoogroup s.com [mailto:Soldados@yahoogroup s.com] On
            Behalf Of Martin Britt
            Sent: 2009-10-08 09:14
            To: Soldados@yahoogroup s.com
            Subject: Re: [Soldados] Swords: Models 1796 and 1728

            Sr. Dn. Franco,
            Do you perhaps have a Spanish sword from the period of the American
            Revolution you could sell or can you recommend a source?

            Un Cordial Saludo
            Martin <><

            --- On Thu, 10/8/09, Frank Martinez IV <soldadomestizo@ yahoo.com
            <mailto:soldadomest izo%40yahoo. com> > wrote:

            From: Frank Martinez IV <soldadomestizo@ yahoo.com
            <mailto:soldadomest izo%40yahoo. com> >
            Subject: Re: [Soldados] Swords: Models 1796 and 1728
            To: Soldados@yahoogroup s.com <mailto:Soldados% 40yahoogroups. com>
            Date: Thursday, October 8, 2009, 4:41 AM

            Al El Zieg,
            Hombre, could you put that link and your personal opionion in the
            links section of the website? Especially if you end up ordering one
            (Uh, "Thou Shalt Not Covet Thy Vecino's Sword"). I love that thing.
            Mayhaps I'll have to sell one of my other ones to get me one of them!
            iv

            ____________ _________ _________ __
            From: the_zieg <thezieg@myedl. com>
            To: Soldados@yahoogroup s.com
            Sent: Wed, October 7, 2009 7:41:28 AM
            Subject: [Soldados] Swords: Models 1796 and 1728

            Soldados,

            Windlass Steelcrafts (out of India) has produced a replica of the 1796
            cavalry sword. http://www.museumre plicas.com/ p-1031-spanish-
            bilbo-cut- thrust.aspx

            Likes: The blade dimensions are correct. The hilt overall looks right.
            The price, while not exciting, is not over the top at around $250. It
            comes with a scabbard.

            Dislikes: They've mislabeled it (no doubt out of a combination of
            ignorance and a desire to expand its range of appeal) as a "Spanish
            Bilbo Rapier" and "Spanish Bilbo Cut & Thrust." The quillions appear a
            bit over-bent. There are no fullers to the blade so it's apt to be a bit
            heavy.

            Now, excepting the cup, this sword is a dead ringer for the 1728 model.
            I'm trying to get in touch with Windlass (directly and via
            intermediaries) to see whether they can come up with the earlier, "boca
            de caballo" shells that will be correct for the 1728. If I can suggest
            that there's a market for it amongst the reenactors here, we might just
            be able to get this thing made.

            Reply to this thread whether you'd be interested.

            Zieg

            Eric Paul Ziegler
            Double E Farm
            Elizabeth CO

            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Rick Collins
            The white one was discontinued....it never fails.... Richard A. Collins Manager, Medical Television & Teleconferencing AHSC Biomedical Communications
            Message 5 of 23 , Oct 8, 2009
            • 0 Attachment
              The white one was discontinued....it never fails....



              Richard A. Collins
              Manager, Medical Television & Teleconferencing

              AHSC Biomedical Communications
              001-520-626-7216 cell 001-520-429-0598

              TV Trouble 001-520-626-7216

              rickc@...
              http://webcast.ahsc.arizona.edu

              ________________________________

              From: Soldados@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Soldados@yahoogroups.com] On
              Behalf Of Frank Martinez IV
              Sent: 2009-10-08 14:35
              To: Soldados@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: Re: [Soldados] Swords: Models 1796 and 1728





              Yeah, but for 87 bucks, it would be a big hit with a budget. I have
              something similar (I think you've seen it, Rick) with a cheap blade and
              a scabbard, in white rather than brass (it ain't silver, that's for
              sure). And it's obviously the tourist model. But it's better than a
              sharp stick in the eye (hmm, gotta think about that. The point is
              definately sharp). But yeah, the one that El Zeig has found is cool,
              cool, cool!
              iv

              ________________________________
              From: Rick Collins <rickc@...
              <mailto:rickc%40email.arizona.edu> >
              To: Soldados@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Soldados%40yahoogroups.com>
              Sent: Thu, October 8, 2009 9:19:45 AM
              Subject: RE: [Soldados] Swords: Models 1796 and 1728


              I hesitantly toss this out there at the risk of being pummeled. It has a
              brass hilt which would make it extremely rare, and the blade is cheap,
              but for something to wear on your side, it will do. There is nothing
              like it for the pre 1796 blade posted by Zieg. It does not come with a
              scabbard, which I'm trying to find a source for.

              http://www.a2armory .com/cuprap. htm

              Rick, Tucson Presidio

              ____________ _________ _________ __

              From: Soldados@yahoogroup s.com [mailto:Soldados@yahoogroup s.com] On
              Behalf Of Martin Britt
              Sent: 2009-10-08 09:14
              To: Soldados@yahoogroup s.com
              Subject: Re: [Soldados] Swords: Models 1796 and 1728

              Sr. Dn. Franco,
              Do you perhaps have a Spanish sword from the period of the American
              Revolution you could sell or can you recommend a source?

              Un Cordial Saludo
              Martin <><

              --- On Thu, 10/8/09, Frank Martinez IV <soldadomestizo@ yahoo.com
              <mailto:soldadomest izo%40yahoo. com> > wrote:

              From: Frank Martinez IV <soldadomestizo@ yahoo.com
              <mailto:soldadomest izo%40yahoo. com> >
              Subject: Re: [Soldados] Swords: Models 1796 and 1728
              To: Soldados@yahoogroup s.com <mailto:Soldados% 40yahoogroups. com>
              Date: Thursday, October 8, 2009, 4:41 AM

              Al El Zieg,
              Hombre, could you put that link and your personal opionion in the
              links section of the website? Especially if you end up ordering one
              (Uh, "Thou Shalt Not Covet Thy Vecino's Sword"). I love that thing.
              Mayhaps I'll have to sell one of my other ones to get me one of them!
              iv

              ____________ _________ _________ __
              From: the_zieg <thezieg@myedl. com>
              To: Soldados@yahoogroup s.com
              Sent: Wed, October 7, 2009 7:41:28 AM
              Subject: [Soldados] Swords: Models 1796 and 1728

              Soldados,

              Windlass Steelcrafts (out of India) has produced a replica of the 1796
              cavalry sword. http://www.museumre plicas.com/ p-1031-spanish-
              bilbo-cut- thrust.aspx

              Likes: The blade dimensions are correct. The hilt overall looks right.
              The price, while not exciting, is not over the top at around $250. It
              comes with a scabbard.

              Dislikes: They've mislabeled it (no doubt out of a combination of
              ignorance and a desire to expand its range of appeal) as a "Spanish
              Bilbo Rapier" and "Spanish Bilbo Cut & Thrust." The quillions appear a
              bit over-bent. There are no fullers to the blade so it's apt to be a bit
              heavy.

              Now, excepting the cup, this sword is a dead ringer for the 1728 model.
              I'm trying to get in touch with Windlass (directly and via
              intermediaries) to see whether they can come up with the earlier, "boca
              de caballo" shells that will be correct for the 1728. If I can suggest
              that there's a market for it amongst the reenactors here, we might just
              be able to get this thing made.

              Reply to this thread whether you'd be interested.

              Zieg

              Eric Paul Ziegler
              Double E Farm
              Elizabeth CO

              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Eric Paul Ziegler
              Rick says maybe, but there are other swords that a well-appointed 19h cent. Californio would have preferred, I think. Though if that Californio had frontier
              Message 6 of 23 , Oct 8, 2009
              • 0 Attachment
                Rick says maybe, but there are other swords that a well-appointed 19h cent.
                Californio would have preferred, I think. Though if that Californio had
                frontier soldado heritage in his family, he might have one of these swords
                over his mantelpiece. Maybe?



                Zieg



                Eric Paul Ziegler
                Double E Farm
                Elizabeth CO
                classicalequitation @...



                _____

                From: Soldados@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Soldados@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
                Of Bruno Willinski
                Sent: Thursday, 08 October, 2009 1:49 PM
                To: Soldados@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: Re: [Soldados] Re: Swords: Models 1796 and 1728





                Gentlemen,

                The big question for me is would this be something at an 1840's Californio
                might have?

                BW

                ________________________________
                From: the_zieg <thezieg@myedl. <mailto:thezieg%40myedl.com> com>
                To: Soldados@yahoogroup <mailto:Soldados%40yahoogroups.com> s..com
                Sent: Thu, October 8, 2009 12:26:36 PM
                Subject: [Soldados] Re: Swords: Models 1796 and 1728


                Additional info:

                According to Juan Perez, the 1796 pattern is only called the 1796 because it
                was listed in the regulations of 1796. It certainly existed before then.
                They are difficult to date, but I don't think it would be unusual to have
                one for an Am. Rev. impression. I will ask Sr. Perez directly on this point.

                Zieg

                Eric Paul Ziegler
                Double E Farm
                Elizabeth CO
                classicalequitation @...

                --- In Soldados@yahoogroup s.com, Martin Britt <realista1810@ ...> wrote:
                >
                > Sr. Dn. Franco,
                > Do you perhaps have a Spanish sword from the period of the American
                Revolution you could sell or can you recommend a source?
                >
                > Un Cordial Saludo
                > Martin <><
                >
                > --- On Thu, 10/8/09, Frank Martinez IV <soldadomestizo@ ...> wrote:
                >
                >
                > From: Frank Martinez IV <soldadomestizo@ ...>
                > Subject: Re: [Soldados] Swords: Models 1796 and 1728
                > To: Soldados@yahoogroup s.com
                > Date: Thursday, October 8, 2009, 4:41 AM
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > Al El Zieg,
                > Hombre, could you put that link and your personal opionion in the
                links section of the website? Especially if you end up ordering one (Uh,
                "Thou Shalt Not Covet Thy Vecino's Sword"). I love that thing. Mayhaps
                I'll have to sell one of my other ones to get me one of them!
                > iv
                >
                >
                >
                > ____________ _________ _________ __
                > From: the_zieg <thezieg@myedl. com>
                > To: Soldados@yahoogroup s.com
                > Sent: Wed, October 7, 2009 7:41:28 AM
                > Subject: [Soldados] Swords: Models 1796 and 1728
                >
                >
                > Soldados,
                >
                > Windlass Steelcrafts (out of India) has produced a replica of the 1796
                cavalry sword. http://www.museumre plicas.com/ p-1031-spanish- bilbo-cut-
                thrust.aspx
                >
                > Likes: The blade dimensions are correct. The hilt overall looks right. The
                price, while not exciting, is not over the top at around $250. It comes with
                a scabbard.
                >
                > Dislikes: They've mislabeled it (no doubt out of a combination of
                ignorance and a desire to expand its range of appeal) as a "Spanish Bilbo
                Rapier" and "Spanish Bilbo Cut & Thrust." The quillions appear a bit
                over-bent. There are no fullers to the blade so it's apt to be a bit heavy.
                >
                > Now, excepting the cup, this sword is a dead ringer for the 1728 model..
                I'm trying to get in touch with Windlass (directly and via intermediaries)
                to see whether they can come up with the earlier, "boca de caballo" shells
                that will be correct for the 1728. If I can suggest that there's a market
                for it amongst the reenactors here, we might just be able to get this thing
                made.
                >
                > Reply to this thread whether you'd be interested.
                >
                > Zieg
                >
                > Eric Paul Ziegler
                > Double E Farm
                > Elizabeth CO
                >
                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >

                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • john navarro
                The 1796 was also a British Light Cavalry Saber Model, and seeing that Spain and later the Mexican Army Used plenty of British surplus during the Naploeionic
                Message 7 of 23 , Oct 8, 2009
                • 0 Attachment
                  The 1796 was also a British Light Cavalry Saber Model, and seeing that Spain and later the Mexican Army Used plenty of British surplus during the Naploeionic Era having one in the 1840's would not be wrong.

                  John Navarro

                  --- On Wed, 10/7/09, the_zieg <thezieg@...> wrote:

                  > From: the_zieg <thezieg@...>
                  > Subject: [Soldados] Swords: Models 1796 and 1728
                  > To: Soldados@yahoogroups.com
                  > Date: Wednesday, October 7, 2009, 9:41 AM
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >  
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Soldados,
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Windlass Steelcrafts (out of India) has produced a replica
                  > of the 1796 cavalry sword. http://www.museumre
                  > plicas.com/ p-1031-spanish- bilbo-cut- thrust.aspx
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Likes: The blade dimensions are correct. The hilt overall
                  > looks right. The price, while not exciting, is not over the
                  > top at around $250. It comes with a scabbard.
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Dislikes: They've mislabeled it (no doubt out of a
                  > combination of ignorance and a desire to expand its range of
                  > appeal) as a "Spanish Bilbo Rapier" and
                  > "Spanish Bilbo Cut & Thrust." The quillions
                  > appear a bit over-bent. There are no fullers to the blade so
                  > it's apt to be a bit heavy.
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Now, excepting the cup, this sword is a dead ringer for the
                  > 1728 model. I'm trying to get in touch with Windlass
                  > (directly and via intermediaries) to see whether they can
                  > come up with the earlier, "boca de caballo" shells
                  > that will be correct for the 1728. If I can suggest that
                  > there's a market for it amongst the reenactors here, we
                  > might just be able to get this thing made.
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Reply to this thread whether you'd be interested.
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Zieg
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Eric Paul Ziegler
                  >
                  > Double E Farm
                  >
                  > Elizabeth CO
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                • Robert A Stevens
                  Which is an interesting observation. A 1790 Brit Cavalry Saber hangs over the dining room mantle of the Casa Estudillo in Old Town (San Diego) State Park.I
                  Message 8 of 23 , Oct 8, 2009
                  • 0 Attachment
                    Which is an interesting observation. A 1790 Brit Cavalry Saber hangs over the dining room mantle of the Casa Estudillo in Old Town (San Diego) State Park.I like this sword. Yes, it is too early for Revy and the 1769 generation of Cali-Soldados.But the second generation soldados would have been issued this one. If you look at the espada ancha rusticas we find today, many are reworked models 1796 & 1728.Ok, I understand the manufacturers are advertising for a broad market share and no doubt hoping to access the lucrative "Pirate" customer base.I'm impressed that the cup doesn't have the tell-tail ball tine hammer scars found on the more economical choices.Alferez

                    --- On Thu, 10/8/09, john navarro <jlnjake@...> wrote:

                    From: john navarro <jlnjake@...>
                    Subject: Re: [Soldados] Swords: Models 1796 and 1728
                    To: Soldados@yahoogroups.com
                    Date: Thursday, October 8, 2009, 7:29 PM













                     





                    The 1796 was also a British Light Cavalry Saber Model, and seeing that Spain and later the Mexican Army Used plenty of British surplus during the Naploeionic Era having one in the 1840's would not be wrong.



                    John Navarro



                    --- On Wed, 10/7/09, the_zieg <thezieg@myedl. com> wrote:



                    > From: the_zieg <thezieg@myedl. com>

                    > Subject: [Soldados] Swords: Models 1796 and 1728

                    > To: Soldados@yahoogroup s.com

                    > Date: Wednesday, October 7, 2009, 9:41 AM

                    >

                    >

                    >

                    >

                    >

                    >

                    >

                    >

                    >

                    >

                    >

                    >

                    >  

                    >

                    >

                    >

                    >

                    >

                    > Soldados,

                    >

                    >

                    >

                    > Windlass Steelcrafts (out of India) has produced a replica

                    > of the 1796 cavalry sword. http://www.museumre

                    > plicas.com/ p-1031-spanish- bilbo-cut- thrust.aspx

                    >

                    >

                    >

                    > Likes: The blade dimensions are correct. The hilt overall

                    > looks right. The price, while not exciting, is not over the

                    > top at around $250. It comes with a scabbard.

                    >

                    >

                    >

                    > Dislikes: They've mislabeled it (no doubt out of a

                    > combination of ignorance and a desire to expand its range of

                    > appeal) as a "Spanish Bilbo Rapier" and

                    > "Spanish Bilbo Cut & Thrust." The quillions

                    > appear a bit over-bent. There are no fullers to the blade so

                    > it's apt to be a bit heavy.

                    >

                    >

                    >

                    > Now, excepting the cup, this sword is a dead ringer for the

                    > 1728 model. I'm trying to get in touch with Windlass

                    > (directly and via intermediaries) to see whether they can

                    > come up with the earlier, "boca de caballo" shells

                    > that will be correct for the 1728. If I can suggest that

                    > there's a market for it amongst the reenactors here, we

                    > might just be able to get this thing made.

                    >

                    >

                    >

                    > Reply to this thread whether you'd be interested.

                    >

                    >

                    >

                    > Zieg

                    >

                    >

                    >

                    > Eric Paul Ziegler

                    >

                    > Double E Farm

                    >

                    > Elizabeth CO

                    >

                    >

                    >

                    >

                    >

                    >

                    >

                    >

                    >

                    >

                    >

                    >

                    >

                    >

                    >

                    >

                    >

                    >

                    >

                    >

                    >

                    >

                    >

                    >

                    >

                    >

                    >

                    >

                    >

                    >

                    >

                    >

























                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • Frank Martinez IV
                    Ah, if the Alferez likes it, why then, it certainly passes inspection.     iv ________________________________ From: Robert A Stevens
                    Message 9 of 23 , Oct 8, 2009
                    • 0 Attachment
                      Ah, if the Alferez likes it, why then, it certainly passes inspection.
                          iv




                      ________________________________
                      From: Robert A Stevens <bobybaby@...>
                      To: Soldados@yahoogroups.com
                      Sent: Thu, October 8, 2009 7:45:38 PM
                      Subject: Re: [Soldados] Swords: Models 1796 and 1728

                       
                      Which is an interesting observation. A 1790 Brit Cavalry Saber hangs over the dining room mantle of the Casa Estudillo in Old Town (San Diego) State Park.I like this sword. Yes, it is too early for Revy and the 1769 generation of Cali-Soldados. But the second generation soldados would have been issued this one. If you look at the espada ancha rusticas we find today, many are reworked models 1796 & 1728.Ok, I understand the manufacturers are advertising for a broad market share and no doubt hoping to access the lucrative "Pirate" customer base.I'm impressed that the cup doesn't have the tell-tail ball tine hammer scars found on the more economical choices.Alferez

                      --- On Thu, 10/8/09, john navarro <jlnjake@yahoo. com> wrote:

                      From: john navarro <jlnjake@yahoo. com>
                      Subject: Re: [Soldados] Swords: Models 1796 and 1728
                      To: Soldados@yahoogroup s.com
                      Date: Thursday, October 8, 2009, 7:29 PM

                       

                      The 1796 was also a British Light Cavalry Saber Model, and seeing that Spain and later the Mexican Army Used plenty of British surplus during the Naploeionic Era having one in the 1840's would not be wrong.

                      John Navarro

                      --- On Wed, 10/7/09, the_zieg <thezieg@myedl. com> wrote:

                      > From: the_zieg <thezieg@myedl. com>

                      > Subject: [Soldados] Swords: Models 1796 and 1728

                      > To: Soldados@yahoogroup s.com

                      > Date: Wednesday, October 7, 2009, 9:41 AM

                      >

                      >

                      >

                      >

                      >

                      >

                      >

                      >

                      >

                      >

                      >

                      >

                      >  

                      >

                      >

                      >

                      >

                      >

                      > Soldados,

                      >

                      >

                      >

                      > Windlass Steelcrafts (out of India) has produced a replica

                      > of the 1796 cavalry sword. http://www.museumre

                      > plicas.com/ p-1031-spanish- bilbo-cut- thrust.aspx

                      >

                      >

                      >

                      > Likes: The blade dimensions are correct. The hilt overall

                      > looks right. The price, while not exciting, is not over the

                      > top at around $250. It comes with a scabbard.

                      >

                      >

                      >

                      > Dislikes: They've mislabeled it (no doubt out of a

                      > combination of ignorance and a desire to expand its range of

                      > appeal) as a "Spanish Bilbo Rapier" and

                      > "Spanish Bilbo Cut & Thrust." The quillions

                      > appear a bit over-bent. There are no fullers to the blade so

                      > it's apt to be a bit heavy.

                      >

                      >

                      >

                      > Now, excepting the cup, this sword is a dead ringer for the

                      > 1728 model. I'm trying to get in touch with Windlass

                      > (directly and via intermediaries) to see whether they can

                      > come up with the earlier, "boca de caballo" shells

                      > that will be correct for the 1728. If I can suggest that

                      > there's a market for it amongst the reenactors here, we

                      > might just be able to get this thing made.

                      >

                      >

                      >

                      > Reply to this thread whether you'd be interested.

                      >

                      >

                      >

                      > Zieg

                      >

                      >

                      >

                      > Eric Paul Ziegler

                      >

                      > Double E Farm

                      >

                      > Elizabeth CO

                      >

                      >

                      >

                      >

                      >

                      >

                      >

                      >

                      >

                      >

                      >

                      >

                      >

                      >

                      >

                      >

                      >

                      >

                      >

                      >

                      >

                      >

                      >

                      >

                      >

                      >

                      >

                      >

                      >

                      >

                      >

                      >














                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • John Lawrence
                      For those with enough patience, there will be a 1728 sword available in about a year. We have been working with Loyalist Arms in Canada. The proprietor, Blair,
                      Message 10 of 23 , Oct 9, 2009
                      • 0 Attachment
                        For those with enough patience, there will be a 1728 sword available in about a year. We have been working with Loyalist Arms in Canada. The proprietor, Blair, is very interested in the Spanish Colonial period. As soon as he amasses enough information, the will be making that sword. We are currently working on getting a casting made of the hilt of a 1728 sword that is in a private collection in San Antonio.
                        A couple members of this forum have already contributed information for this project. If anyone else has info they are willing to share please do.
                        John Lawrence

                        --- On Thu, 10/8/09, Robert A Stevens <bobybaby@...> wrote:


                        From: Robert A Stevens <bobybaby@...>
                        Subject: Re: [Soldados] Swords: Models 1796 and 1728
                        To: Soldados@yahoogroups.com
                        Date: Thursday, October 8, 2009, 9:45 PM


                         



                        Which is an interesting observation. A 1790 Brit Cavalry Saber hangs over the dining room mantle of the Casa Estudillo in Old Town (San Diego) State Park.I like this sword. Yes, it is too early for Revy and the 1769 generation of Cali-Soldados. But the second generation soldados would have been issued this one. If you look at the espada ancha rusticas we find today, many are reworked models 1796 & 1728.Ok, I understand the manufacturers are advertising for a broad market share and no doubt hoping to access the lucrative "Pirate" customer base.I'm impressed that the cup doesn't have the tell-tail ball tine hammer scars found on the more economical choices.Alferez

                        --- On Thu, 10/8/09, john navarro <jlnjake@yahoo. com> wrote:

                        From: john navarro <jlnjake@yahoo. com>
                        Subject: Re: [Soldados] Swords: Models 1796 and 1728
                        To: Soldados@yahoogroup s.com
                        Date: Thursday, October 8, 2009, 7:29 PM

                         

                        The 1796 was also a British Light Cavalry Saber Model, and seeing that Spain and later the Mexican Army Used plenty of British surplus during the Naploeionic Era having one in the 1840's would not be wrong.

                        John Navarro

                        --- On Wed, 10/7/09, the_zieg <thezieg@myedl. com> wrote:

                        > From: the_zieg <thezieg@myedl. com>

                        > Subject: [Soldados] Swords: Models 1796 and 1728

                        > To: Soldados@yahoogroup s.com

                        > Date: Wednesday, October 7, 2009, 9:41 AM

                        >

                        >

                        >

                        >

                        >

                        >

                        >

                        >

                        >

                        >

                        >

                        >

                        >  

                        >

                        >

                        >

                        >

                        >

                        > Soldados,

                        >

                        >

                        >

                        > Windlass Steelcrafts (out of India) has produced a replica

                        > of the 1796 cavalry sword. http://www.museumre

                        > plicas.com/ p-1031-spanish- bilbo-cut- thrust.aspx

                        >

                        >

                        >

                        > Likes: The blade dimensions are correct. The hilt overall

                        > looks right. The price, while not exciting, is not over the

                        > top at around $250. It comes with a scabbard.

                        >

                        >

                        >

                        > Dislikes: They've mislabeled it (no doubt out of a

                        > combination of ignorance and a desire to expand its range of

                        > appeal) as a "Spanish Bilbo Rapier" and

                        > "Spanish Bilbo Cut & Thrust." The quillions

                        > appear a bit over-bent. There are no fullers to the blade so

                        > it's apt to be a bit heavy.

                        >

                        >

                        >

                        > Now, excepting the cup, this sword is a dead ringer for the

                        > 1728 model. I'm trying to get in touch with Windlass

                        > (directly and via intermediaries) to see whether they can

                        > come up with the earlier, "boca de caballo" shells

                        > that will be correct for the 1728. If I can suggest that

                        > there's a market for it amongst the reenactors here, we

                        > might just be able to get this thing made.

                        >

                        >

                        >

                        > Reply to this thread whether you'd be interested.

                        >

                        >

                        >

                        > Zieg

                        >

                        >

                        >

                        > Eric Paul Ziegler

                        >

                        > Double E Farm

                        >

                        > Elizabeth CO

                        >

                        >

                        >

                        >

                        >

                        >

                        >

                        >

                        >

                        >

                        >

                        >

                        >

                        >

                        >

                        >

                        >

                        >

                        >

                        >

                        >

                        >

                        >

                        >

                        >

                        >

                        >

                        >

                        >

                        >

                        >

                        >














                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
















                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • Eric Paul Ziegler
                        John, I m not sure we re talking about the same sword here. You re referring to the famed Blucher saber, I assume. If so, this is not the same as the
                        Message 11 of 23 , Oct 9, 2009
                        • 0 Attachment
                          John,



                          I'm not sure we're talking about the same sword here. You're referring to
                          the famed "Blucher saber," I assume. If so, this is not the same as the
                          Spanish model of 1796. You might be simply saying that they carry the same
                          name and that the Spanish and Mexicans later adopted the British saber.
                          That's true. But others here want to be clear that they are not the same
                          sword.



                          Zieg



                          Eric Paul Ziegler

                          Double E Farm

                          Elizabeth CO

                          classicalequitation@...

                          _____

                          From: Soldados@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Soldados@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
                          Of john navarro
                          Sent: Thursday, 08 October, 2009 8:30 PM
                          To: Soldados@yahoogroups.com
                          Subject: Re: [Soldados] Swords: Models 1796 and 1728





                          The 1796 was also a British Light Cavalry Saber Model, and seeing that Spain
                          and later the Mexican Army Used plenty of British surplus during the
                          Naploeionic Era having one in the 1840's would not be wrong.

                          John Navarro

                          --- On Wed, 10/7/09, the_zieg <thezieg@myedl. <mailto:thezieg%40myedl.com>
                          com> wrote:

                          > From: the_zieg <thezieg@myedl. <mailto:thezieg%40myedl.com> com>
                          > Subject: [Soldados] Swords: Models 1796 and 1728
                          > To: Soldados@yahoogroup <mailto:Soldados%40yahoogroups.com> s.com
                          > Date: Wednesday, October 7, 2009, 9:41 AM
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > Soldados,
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > Windlass Steelcrafts (out of India) has produced a replica
                          > of the 1796 cavalry sword. http://www.museumre
                          > plicas.com/ p-1031-spanish- bilbo-cut- thrust.aspx
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > Likes: The blade dimensions are correct. The hilt overall
                          > looks right. The price, while not exciting, is not over the
                          > top at around $250. It comes with a scabbard.
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > Dislikes: They've mislabeled it (no doubt out of a
                          > combination of ignorance and a desire to expand its range of
                          > appeal) as a "Spanish Bilbo Rapier" and
                          > "Spanish Bilbo Cut & Thrust." The quillions
                          > appear a bit over-bent. There are no fullers to the blade so
                          > it's apt to be a bit heavy.
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > Now, excepting the cup, this sword is a dead ringer for the
                          > 1728 model. I'm trying to get in touch with Windlass
                          > (directly and via intermediaries) to see whether they can
                          > come up with the earlier, "boca de caballo" shells
                          > that will be correct for the 1728. If I can suggest that
                          > there's a market for it amongst the reenactors here, we
                          > might just be able to get this thing made.
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > Reply to this thread whether you'd be interested.
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > Zieg
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > Eric Paul Ziegler
                          >
                          > Double E Farm
                          >
                          > Elizabeth CO
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >





                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • the_zieg
                          Mr. Lawrence, This is great news! I can certainly wait given that the quality and price of Loyalist products seems to be the perfect combination. Would you be
                          Message 12 of 23 , Oct 9, 2009
                          • 0 Attachment
                            Mr. Lawrence,

                            This is great news! I can certainly wait given that the quality and price of Loyalist products seems to be the perfect combination.

                            Would you be willing to keep us posted on how the project is coming and what sort of price point we might expect?

                            Zieg

                            Eric Paul Ziegler
                            Double E Farm
                            Elizabeth CO
                            classicalequitation@...

                            --- In Soldados@yahoogroups.com, John Lawrence <johnmlaw@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > For those with enough patience, there will be a 1728 sword available in about a year. We have been working with Loyalist Arms in Canada. The proprietor, Blair, is very interested in the Spanish Colonial period. As soon as he amasses enough information, the will be making that sword. We are currently working on getting a casting made of the hilt of a 1728 sword that is in a private collection in San Antonio.
                            > A couple members of this forum have already contributed information for this project. If anyone else has info they are willing to share please do.
                            > John Lawrence
                          • John Lawrence
                            Zieg,      As things progress, I will certainly keep everyone informed. We are also working with Blair to get an escopete put into production. This will
                            Message 13 of 23 , Oct 9, 2009
                            • 0 Attachment
                              Zieg,
                                   As things progress, I will certainly keep everyone informed. We are also working with Blair to get an escopete put into production. This will also be about a year to completion (if all goes smoothly!). Just have to get a mochilla made, and a new lance head, and the proper jacket, and...  Then my soldado de quera kit will be ready.
                              John Lawrence

                              --- On Fri, 10/9/09, the_zieg <thezieg@...> wrote:


                              From: the_zieg <thezieg@...>
                              Subject: [Soldados] Re: Swords: Models 1796 and 1728
                              To: Soldados@yahoogroups.com
                              Date: Friday, October 9, 2009, 9:46 AM


                               



                              Mr. Lawrence,

                              This is great news! I can certainly wait given that the quality and price of Loyalist products seems to be the perfect combination.

                              Would you be willing to keep us posted on how the project is coming and what sort of price point we might expect?

                              Zieg

                              Eric Paul Ziegler
                              Double E Farm
                              Elizabeth CO
                              classicalequitation @...

                              --- In Soldados@yahoogroup s.com, John Lawrence <johnmlaw@.. .> wrote:
                              >
                              > For those with enough patience, there will be a 1728 sword available in about a year. We have been working with Loyalist Arms in Canada. The proprietor, Blair, is very interested in the Spanish Colonial period. As soon as he amasses enough information, the will be making that sword. We are currently working on getting a casting made of the hilt of a 1728 sword that is in a private collection in San Antonio.
                              > A couple members of this forum have already contributed information for this project. If anyone else has info they are willing to share please do.
                              > John Lawrence
















                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            • the_zieg
                              Mr. Lawrence, So I take it that your impression is going to be mid-18h cent. also? If so, there are only a few us around. Also, if so, we should stay in
                              Message 14 of 23 , Oct 9, 2009
                              • 0 Attachment
                                Mr. Lawrence,

                                So I take it that your impression is going to be mid-18h cent. also? If so, there are only a few us around. Also, if so, we should stay in touch to discuss our progress, as this is a tricky period to represent.

                                Zieg

                                Eric Paul Ziegler
                                Double E Farm
                                Elizabeth CO
                                classicalequitation@...

                                --- In Soldados@yahoogroups.com, John Lawrence <johnmlaw@...> wrote:
                                >
                                > Zieg,
                                >      As things progress, I will certainly keep everyone informed. We are also working with Blair to get an escopete put into production. This will also be about a year to completion (if all goes smoothly!). Just have to get a mochilla made, and a new lance head, and the proper jacket, and...  Then my soldado de quera kit will be ready.
                                > John Lawrence
                                >
                                > --- On Fri, 10/9/09, the_zieg <thezieg@...> wrote:
                                >
                                >
                                > From: the_zieg <thezieg@...>
                                > Subject: [Soldados] Re: Swords: Models 1796 and 1728
                                > To: Soldados@yahoogroups.com
                                > Date: Friday, October 9, 2009, 9:46 AM
                                >
                                >
                                >  
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > Mr. Lawrence,
                                >
                                > This is great news! I can certainly wait given that the quality and price of Loyalist products seems to be the perfect combination.
                                >
                                > Would you be willing to keep us posted on how the project is coming and what sort of price point we might expect?
                                >
                                > Zieg
                                >
                                > Eric Paul Ziegler
                                > Double E Farm
                                > Elizabeth CO
                                > classicalequitation @...
                                >
                                > --- In Soldados@yahoogroup s.com, John Lawrence <johnmlaw@ .> wrote:
                                > >
                                > > For those with enough patience, there will be a 1728 sword available in about a year. We have been working with Loyalist Arms in Canada. The proprietor, Blair, is very interested in the Spanish Colonial period. As soon as he amasses enough information, the will be making that sword. We are currently working on getting a casting made of the hilt of a 1728 sword that is in a private collection in San Antonio.
                                > > A couple members of this forum have already contributed information for this project. If anyone else has info they are willing to share please do.
                                > > John Lawrence
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                >
                              • john navarro
                                Yes they are two different Sabers. I was replying to the Soldado who wanted to know if such a saber would be proper for 1840 s and I want to give him options
                                Message 15 of 23 , Oct 9, 2009
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  Yes they are two different Sabers. I was replying to the Soldado who wanted to know if such a saber would be proper for 1840's and I want to give him options for that time period. I see that my friend John has told ou about his project to get a proper 1728 Spanish Broadsword made. We all are excited about it.

                                  john Navarro

                                  --- On Fri, 10/9/09, Eric Paul Ziegler <thezieg@...> wrote:

                                  > From: Eric Paul Ziegler <thezieg@...>
                                  > Subject: RE: [Soldados] Swords: Models 1796 and 1728
                                  > To: Soldados@yahoogroups.com
                                  > Date: Friday, October 9, 2009, 9:24 AM
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >  
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > John,
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > I'm not sure we're talking about the same sword
                                  > here. You're referring to
                                  >
                                  > the famed "Blucher saber," I assume. If so, this
                                  > is not the same as the
                                  >
                                  > Spanish model of 1796. You might be simply saying that
                                  > they carry the same
                                  >
                                  > name and that the Spanish and Mexicans later adopted the
                                  > British saber.
                                  >
                                  > That's true. But others here want to be clear that
                                  > they are not the same
                                  >
                                  > sword.
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > Zieg
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > Eric Paul Ziegler
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > Double E Farm
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > Elizabeth CO
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > classicalequitation
                                  > @...
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > _____
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > From: Soldados@yahoogroup
                                  > s.com [mailto:Soldados@yahoogroup
                                  > s.com] On Behalf
                                  >
                                  > Of john navarro
                                  >
                                  > Sent: Thursday, 08 October, 2009 8:30 PM
                                  >
                                  > To: Soldados@yahoogroup
                                  > s.com
                                  >
                                  > Subject: Re: [Soldados] Swords: Models 1796 and 1728
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > The 1796 was also a British Light Cavalry Saber Model, and
                                  > seeing that Spain
                                  >
                                  > and later the Mexican Army Used plenty of British surplus
                                  > during the
                                  >
                                  > Naploeionic Era having one in the 1840's would not be
                                  > wrong.
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > John Navarro
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > --- On Wed, 10/7/09, the_zieg <thezieg@myedl.
                                  > <mailto:thezieg% 40myedl.com>
                                  >
                                  > com> wrote:
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > > From: the_zieg <thezieg@myedl. <mailto:thezieg%
                                  > 40myedl.com> com>
                                  >
                                  > > Subject: [Soldados] Swords: Models 1796 and 1728
                                  >
                                  > > To: Soldados@yahoogroup <mailto:Soldados%
                                  > 40yahoogroups. com> s.com
                                  >
                                  > > Date: Wednesday, October 7, 2009, 9:41 AM
                                  >
                                  > >
                                  >
                                  > >
                                  >
                                  > >
                                  >
                                  > >
                                  >
                                  > >
                                  >
                                  > >
                                  >
                                  > >
                                  >
                                  > >
                                  >
                                  > >
                                  >
                                  > >
                                  >
                                  > >
                                  >
                                  > >
                                  >
                                  > >
                                  >
                                  > >
                                  >
                                  > >
                                  >
                                  > >
                                  >
                                  > >
                                  >
                                  > >
                                  >
                                  > > Soldados,
                                  >
                                  > >
                                  >
                                  > >
                                  >
                                  > >
                                  >
                                  > > Windlass Steelcrafts (out of India) has produced a
                                  > replica
                                  >
                                  > > of the 1796 cavalry sword. http://www.museumre
                                  >
                                  > > plicas.com/ p-1031-spanish- bilbo-cut- thrust.aspx
                                  >
                                  > >
                                  >
                                  > >
                                  >
                                  > >
                                  >
                                  > > Likes: The blade dimensions are correct. The hilt
                                  > overall
                                  >
                                  > > looks right. The price, while not exciting, is not
                                  > over the
                                  >
                                  > > top at around $250. It comes with a scabbard.
                                  >
                                  > >
                                  >
                                  > >
                                  >
                                  > >
                                  >
                                  > > Dislikes: They've mislabeled it (no doubt out of
                                  > a
                                  >
                                  > > combination of ignorance and a desire to expand its
                                  > range of
                                  >
                                  > > appeal) as a "Spanish Bilbo Rapier" and
                                  >
                                  > > "Spanish Bilbo Cut & Thrust." The
                                  > quillions
                                  >
                                  > > appear a bit over-bent. There are no fullers to the
                                  > blade so
                                  >
                                  > > it's apt to be a bit heavy.
                                  >
                                  > >
                                  >
                                  > >
                                  >
                                  > >
                                  >
                                  > > Now, excepting the cup, this sword is a dead ringer
                                  > for the
                                  >
                                  > > 1728 model. I'm trying to get in touch with
                                  > Windlass
                                  >
                                  > > (directly and via intermediaries) to see whether they
                                  > can
                                  >
                                  > > come up with the earlier, "boca de caballo"
                                  > shells
                                  >
                                  > > that will be correct for the 1728. If I can suggest
                                  > that
                                  >
                                  > > there's a market for it amongst the reenactors
                                  > here, we
                                  >
                                  > > might just be able to get this thing made.
                                  >
                                  > >
                                  >
                                  > >
                                  >
                                  > >
                                  >
                                  > > Reply to this thread whether you'd be interested.
                                  >
                                  > >
                                  >
                                  > >
                                  >
                                  > >
                                  >
                                  > > Zieg
                                  >
                                  > >
                                  >
                                  > >
                                  >
                                  > >
                                  >
                                  > > Eric Paul Ziegler
                                  >
                                  > >
                                  >
                                  > > Double E Farm
                                  >
                                  > >
                                  >
                                  > > Elizabeth CO
                                  >
                                  > >
                                  >
                                  > >
                                  >
                                  > >
                                  >
                                  > >
                                  >
                                  > >
                                  >
                                  > >
                                  >
                                  > >
                                  >
                                  > >
                                  >
                                  > >
                                  >
                                  > >
                                  >
                                  > >
                                  >
                                  > >
                                  >
                                  > >
                                  >
                                  > >
                                  >
                                  > >
                                  >
                                  > >
                                  >
                                  > >
                                  >
                                  > >
                                  >
                                  > >
                                  >
                                  > >
                                  >
                                  > >
                                  >
                                  > >
                                  >
                                  > >
                                  >
                                  > >
                                  >
                                  > >
                                  >
                                  > >
                                  >
                                  > >
                                  >
                                  > >
                                  >
                                  > >
                                  >
                                  > >
                                  >
                                  > >
                                  >
                                  > >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                • John Lawrence
                                  Zieg,      There are about six of us who are working on an Alamo de Parras (circa 1800) impression. We want to be able to do as early as 1770 with
                                  Message 16 of 23 , Oct 9, 2009
                                  • 0 Attachment
                                    Zieg,
                                         There are about six of us who are working on an Alamo de Parras (circa 1800) impression. We want to be able to do as early as 1770 with modifications to that kit. John Navarro has suggested we eventually should go even earlier, but we have a ways to go before we try that.
                                          Right now our focus is Alamo 175. Our group will be hosting that event at the Bracketville site in 2011. Navarro will be running the Mexican cav and I will be the coordinator for the Mexican forces. I hope to have the escopetes ready by then.
                                    John Lawrence

                                    --- On Fri, 10/9/09, the_zieg <thezieg@...> wrote:


                                    From: the_zieg <thezieg@...>
                                    Subject: [Soldados] Re: Swords: Models 1796 and 1728
                                    To: Soldados@yahoogroups.com
                                    Date: Friday, October 9, 2009, 6:26 PM


                                     



                                    Mr. Lawrence,

                                    So I take it that your impression is going to be mid-18h cent. also? If so, there are only a few us around. Also, if so, we should stay in touch to discuss our progress, as this is a tricky period to represent.

                                    Zieg

                                    Eric Paul Ziegler
                                    Double E Farm
                                    Elizabeth CO
                                    classicalequitation @...

                                    --- In Soldados@yahoogroup s.com, John Lawrence <johnmlaw@.. .> wrote:
                                    >
                                    > Zieg,
                                    >      As things progress, I will certainly keep everyone informed. We are also working with Blair to get an escopete put into production. This will also be about a year to completion (if all goes smoothly!). Just have to get a mochilla made, and a new lance head, and the proper jacket, and...  Then my soldado de quera kit will be ready.
                                    > John Lawrence
                                    >
                                    > --- On Fri, 10/9/09, the_zieg <thezieg@... > wrote:
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > From: the_zieg <thezieg@... >
                                    > Subject: [Soldados] Re: Swords: Models 1796 and 1728
                                    > To: Soldados@yahoogroup s.com
                                    > Date: Friday, October 9, 2009, 9:46 AM
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >  
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > Mr. Lawrence,
                                    >
                                    > This is great news! I can certainly wait given that the quality and price of Loyalist products seems to be the perfect combination.
                                    >
                                    > Would you be willing to keep us posted on how the project is coming and what sort of price point we might expect?
                                    >
                                    > Zieg
                                    >
                                    > Eric Paul Ziegler
                                    > Double E Farm
                                    > Elizabeth CO
                                    > classicalequitation @...
                                    >
                                    > --- In Soldados@yahoogroup s.com, John Lawrence <johnmlaw@ .> wrote:
                                    > >
                                    > > For those with enough patience, there will be a 1728 sword available in about a year. We have been working with Loyalist Arms in Canada. The proprietor, Blair, is very interested in the Spanish Colonial period. As soon as he amasses enough information, the will be making that sword. We are currently working on getting a casting made of the hilt of a 1728 sword that is in a private collection in San Antonio.
                                    > > A couple members of this forum have already contributed information for this project. If anyone else has info they are willing to share please do.
                                    > > John Lawrence
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                    >
















                                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  • Eric Paul Ziegler
                                    My apologies. I didn t put two and two together. And as for the 1728 sword, you can put me down on the list of supporters (i.e., confirmed buyer once the
                                    Message 17 of 23 , Oct 10, 2009
                                    • 0 Attachment
                                      My apologies. I didn't put two and two together. And as for the 1728
                                      sword, you can put me down on the list of supporters (i.e., confirmed buyer
                                      once the finished sword is available)!



                                      Zieg



                                      Eric Paul Ziegler

                                      Double E Farm

                                      Elizabeth CO

                                      classicalequitation@...



                                      _____

                                      From: Soldados@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Soldados@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
                                      Of john navarro
                                      Sent: Friday, 09 October, 2009 7:48 PM
                                      To: Soldados@yahoogroups.com
                                      Subject: RE: [Soldados] Swords: Models 1796 and 1728





                                      Yes they are two different Sabers. I was replying to the Soldado who wanted
                                      to know if such a saber would be proper for 1840's and I want to give him
                                      options for that time period. I see that my friend John has told ou about
                                      his project to get a proper 1728 Spanish Broadsword made. We all are excited
                                      about it.

                                      john Navarro

                                      --- On Fri, 10/9/09, Eric Paul Ziegler <thezieg@myedl.
                                      <mailto:thezieg%40myedl.com> com> wrote:

                                      > From: Eric Paul Ziegler <thezieg@myedl. <mailto:thezieg%40myedl.com> com>
                                      > Subject: RE: [Soldados] Swords: Models 1796 and 1728
                                      > To: Soldados@yahoogroup <mailto:Soldados%40yahoogroups.com> s.com
                                      > Date: Friday, October 9, 2009, 9:24 AM
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > John,
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > I'm not sure we're talking about the same sword
                                      > here. You're referring to
                                      >
                                      > the famed "Blucher saber," I assume. If so, this
                                      > is not the same as the
                                      >
                                      > Spanish model of 1796. You might be simply saying that
                                      > they carry the same
                                      >
                                      > name and that the Spanish and Mexicans later adopted the
                                      > British saber.
                                      >
                                      > That's true. But others here want to be clear that
                                      > they are not the same
                                      >
                                      > sword.
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > Zieg
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > Eric Paul Ziegler
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > Double E Farm
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > Elizabeth CO
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > classicalequitation
                                      > @...
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > _____
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > From: Soldados@yahoogroup
                                      > s.com [mailto:Soldados@yahoogroup
                                      > s.com] On Behalf
                                      >
                                      > Of john navarro
                                      >
                                      > Sent: Thursday, 08 October, 2009 8:30 PM
                                      >
                                      > To: Soldados@yahoogroup
                                      > s.com
                                      >
                                      > Subject: Re: [Soldados] Swords: Models 1796 and 1728
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > The 1796 was also a British Light Cavalry Saber Model, and
                                      > seeing that Spain
                                      >
                                      > and later the Mexican Army Used plenty of British surplus
                                      > during the
                                      >
                                      > Naploeionic Era having one in the 1840's would not be
                                      > wrong.
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > John Navarro
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > --- On Wed, 10/7/09, the_zieg <thezieg@myedl.
                                      > <mailto:thezieg% 40myedl.com>
                                      >
                                      > com> wrote:
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > > From: the_zieg <thezieg@myedl. <mailto:thezieg%
                                      > 40myedl.com> com>
                                      >
                                      > > Subject: [Soldados] Swords: Models 1796 and 1728
                                      >
                                      > > To: Soldados@yahoogroup <mailto:Soldados%
                                      > 40yahoogroups. com> s.com
                                      >
                                      > > Date: Wednesday, October 7, 2009, 9:41 AM
                                      >
                                      > >
                                      >
                                      > >
                                      >
                                      > >
                                      >
                                      > >
                                      >
                                      > >
                                      >
                                      > >
                                      >
                                      > >
                                      >
                                      > >
                                      >
                                      > >
                                      >
                                      > >
                                      >
                                      > >
                                      >
                                      > >
                                      >
                                      > >
                                      >
                                      > >
                                      >
                                      > >
                                      >
                                      > >
                                      >
                                      > >
                                      >
                                      > >
                                      >
                                      > > Soldados,
                                      >
                                      > >
                                      >
                                      > >
                                      >
                                      > >
                                      >
                                      > > Windlass Steelcrafts (out of India) has produced a
                                      > replica
                                      >
                                      > > of the 1796 cavalry sword. http://www.museumre
                                      >
                                      > > plicas.com/ p-1031-spanish- bilbo-cut- thrust.aspx
                                      >
                                      > >
                                      >
                                      > >
                                      >
                                      > >
                                      >
                                      > > Likes: The blade dimensions are correct. The hilt
                                      > overall
                                      >
                                      > > looks right. The price, while not exciting, is not
                                      > over the
                                      >
                                      > > top at around $250. It comes with a scabbard.
                                      >
                                      > >
                                      >
                                      > >
                                      >
                                      > >
                                      >
                                      > > Dislikes: They've mislabeled it (no doubt out of
                                      > a
                                      >
                                      > > combination of ignorance and a desire to expand its
                                      > range of
                                      >
                                      > > appeal) as a "Spanish Bilbo Rapier" and
                                      >
                                      > > "Spanish Bilbo Cut & Thrust." The
                                      > quillions
                                      >
                                      > > appear a bit over-bent. There are no fullers to the
                                      > blade so
                                      >
                                      > > it's apt to be a bit heavy.
                                      >
                                      > >
                                      >
                                      > >
                                      >
                                      > >
                                      >
                                      > > Now, excepting the cup, this sword is a dead ringer
                                      > for the
                                      >
                                      > > 1728 model. I'm trying to get in touch with
                                      > Windlass
                                      >
                                      > > (directly and via intermediaries) to see whether they
                                      > can
                                      >
                                      > > come up with the earlier, "boca de caballo"
                                      > shells
                                      >
                                      > > that will be correct for the 1728. If I can suggest
                                      > that
                                      >
                                      > > there's a market for it amongst the reenactors
                                      > here, we
                                      >
                                      > > might just be able to get this thing made.
                                      >
                                      > >
                                      >
                                      > >
                                      >
                                      > >
                                      >
                                      > > Reply to this thread whether you'd be interested.
                                      >
                                      > >
                                      >
                                      > >
                                      >
                                      > >
                                      >
                                      > > Zieg
                                      >
                                      > >
                                      >
                                      > >
                                      >
                                      > >
                                      >
                                      > > Eric Paul Ziegler
                                      >
                                      > >
                                      >
                                      > > Double E Farm
                                      >
                                      > >
                                      >
                                      > > Elizabeth CO
                                      >
                                      > >
                                      >
                                      > >
                                      >
                                      > >
                                      >
                                      > >
                                      >
                                      > >
                                      >
                                      > >
                                      >
                                      > >
                                      >
                                      > >
                                      >
                                      > >
                                      >
                                      > >
                                      >
                                      > >
                                      >
                                      > >
                                      >
                                      > >
                                      >
                                      > >
                                      >
                                      > >
                                      >
                                      > >
                                      >
                                      > >
                                      >
                                      > >
                                      >
                                      > >
                                      >
                                      > >
                                      >
                                      > >
                                      >
                                      > >
                                      >
                                      > >
                                      >
                                      > >
                                      >
                                      > >
                                      >
                                      > >
                                      >
                                      > >
                                      >
                                      > >
                                      >
                                      > >
                                      >
                                      > >
                                      >
                                      > >
                                      >
                                      > >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >





                                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                    Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.