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Re: The Real Nichiren in WND 1 and 2

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  • Will Kallander
    ... I agree, though that simplified view does at least seem logical enough to get started in Buddhism. Progression beyond that is a problem though, since
    Message 1 of 137 , Jun 1, 2008
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      --- In SokaGakkaiUnofficial@yahoogroups.com, ryuei2000 <no_reply@...>
      wrote:
      > What I mean is that usually people take the law of cause and effect
      > to be a simple linear thing about personal moral causes and their
      > effects down the line on our lives (a la Sharon Stone).

      I agree, though that simplified view does at least seem logical enough
      to get started in Buddhism. Progression beyond that is a problem
      though, since people usually prefer the simple (yet logical) to the
      more complex, all other things being equal. All IMO, of course.

      > But the
      > Buddha's teaching on causality is actually a lot more complex and
      > comprehensive than that (even in the so-called Hinayana sutras and
      > Abhidahrma). The Buddha discusses different strands of causality
      > dealing with inanimate matter, biological proceses, non-volitional
      > mental processes, and a catch-all category called cryptically
      > Dharmic processes (the actual word is Dharma-niyama) besides just
      > karmic causality that deals with personal moral volitions and their
      > consequences. Nichiren alludes to these in one of his letters to a
      > sick follower, and Nichiren is citing T'ien-t'ai if I remember
      > right.
      >
      > Anyway, the other Mahayana sutras go further. The Heart Sutra
      > negates any substantialistic thinking about causes and effects. The
      > Vimalakirti Sutra deals with non-duality of all kinds. The Flower
      > Garland Sutra inspired a lot of thinking about mutual causality and
      > especially a kind of causality that goes beyond our usual thinking
      > about lineage time and geographical space. So the discussion about
      > the law of cause and effect in terms of personal intentional
      > activity and their outcome in linear time is barely scratching the
      > surface of what Buddhism has to offer.

      Thats for all that. I was hoping you'd fill in those details, I'll
      have to come back to it when I have more time.

      > Oops, that was my bad writing at work. It wasn't that Nichiren was
      > saying as you got older its more difficult. What I mean to say was
      > that later in Nichiren's life he began to emphasize how there were
      > barely anyone people in the Latter Age who could really take up
      > silent forms of meditative contemplation.

      Ah, that clears it up, thank you.

      I know the terseness of this reply does not quite do justice to the
      length of your reply, but it at least serves as an acknowledgment.

      Thanks again,
      --Will
    • free2woowoo
      Hi Byrd: I m going to send and e-mail to you re: recent news. I don t recall your other address, so will send to your yahoo. Ashley ... the ... flashing ...
      Message 137 of 137 , Jun 11, 2008
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        Hi Byrd: I'm going to send and e-mail to you re: recent news. I don't
        recall your other address, so will send to your yahoo.

        Ashley

        --- In SokaGakkaiUnofficial@yahoogroups.com, "Byrd Ehlmann"
        <wahzoh@...> wrote:
        >
        > Hi, Lauren - I've been away from the board for awhile - who said
        > that (below)? Good gravy, Nichiren was totaly engaged politicaly
        > In fact, I think that's the only possible way to understand him in
        > context!
        >
        > WH on earth would say such a thing to the membership? Perhaps
        > someone who has a strong Christian background, and who thinks the
        > same thing about Jesus (who was also a very, very political figure)
        >
        > Hoping you all have a wonderful week, Best, Byrd in LA
        >
        >
        > --- In SokaGakkaiUnofficial@yahoogroups.com, "Lauren" <lkf225@>
        > wrote:
        > >
        > > I read this statement:
        > >
        > > In the same way I have been
        > > told that Nichiren was not a Political
        > > figure and had nothing to do with
        > > Politics... that he did not employ
        > > Psychology in dealing with people
        > > and that he did not engage in
        > > worldly matters and events... and
        > > his writings and person history
        > > prove this.
        > >
        > > And my jaw hit the floor. It felt akin to meeting someone who
        > still
        > > thinks the world is flat or the the sun revolves around us. If I
        > were
        > > to ever meet someone who felt this way, I'm not even sure what I
        > > would do, because all of the Gosho that would disprove such a
        > point
        > > are relatively long... and might take some digesting. But even
        the
        > > short biographies of Nichiren kill such a statement. Unless
        > someone
        > > just does not want to deal with this truth.
        > >
        > > The front of WND Volume 1 has 15 pages on the "context"
        > (historical,
        > > cultural and religious) as well as a summary of Nichirne's life,
        > his
        > > core beliefs and an explanation of the difference between his
        > letters
        > > of encouragement and his treatises and remonstrations.
        > >
        > > I think it took me a long time, and a certain intellectual
        > maturity
        > > to finally realize that those intros, prefaces and notes in the
        > front
        > > of a book were worth reading.
        > >
        > > Give folks a few nudges toward those front pages... it's as easy
        > as
        > > looking for protein in tuna fish - trust me, it's in there! :-)
        > >
        > > (I'm trying to make a reference to some commercial that's
        flashing
        > in
        > > and out of my brain, but I can't remember it. Phoey!)
        > >
        > > Best regards,
        > >
        > > Lauren Foster
        > > Budding Buddha
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > --- In SokaGakkaiUnofficial@yahoogroups.com, "thedaddy@"
        > > <thedaddy@> wrote:
        > > >
        > > > ryuei2000 wrote:
        > > > >
        > > > > If people would just read all the gosho in both volumes they
        > > would
        > > > > get a better picture of Nichiren as a whole. Of course the
        > > problem
        > > > > with this is that some of the writings are not authenticated
        > and
        > > they
        > > > > many not all be by Nichiren but by later followers. For
        > > instance, I
        > > > > am pretty convinced that Conversation Between a Sage and an
        > > > > Unenlightened Man is a pastiche of genuine writings but put
        > > together
        > > > > by someone else either late in Nichiren's life or even after
        > his
        > > > > passing. So it helps to evaluate this material with
        > historical
        > > and
        > > > > textual scholarship. But even without that - simply reading
        > the
        > > WND
        > > > > Volumes 1 and 2 will show that there is more to Nichiren
        > Buddhism
        > > > > than most people, even many of those who consider themselves
        > > Nichiren
        > > > > Budhdists, think.
        > > > >
        > > > > Namu Myoho Renge Kyo, Ryuei
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > Dear Ryuei
        > > >
        > > > Once again you express information that is quite true and yet
        > for
        > > many
        > > > will simply fall upon deaf ears. Your tenacity and patience has
        > to
        > > be
        > > > admired and respected!
        > > >
        > > > Your comment reminded me of a Televised debate I saw in which
        > Arch
        > > > Bishop Desmond Tutu was debating the Bible with a
        Fundamentalist
        > > > Christian. The Fundamentalist stated "There is Nothing
        Political
        > In
        > > The
        > > > Bible and Jesus had no interest in Politics!".
        > > >
        > > > Desmond Tutu just looked at him and said " I don't know which
        > Bible
        > > you
        > > > have been reading, but The Bible is one of the most Political
        > > Documents
        > > > there is and Jesus was a very Political figure."
        > > >
        > > > In the same way I have been told that Nichiren was not a
        > Political
        > > > Figure and had nothing to do with Politics... that he did not
        > > employ
        > > > Psychology in dealing with people and that he did not engage in
        > > worldly
        > > > matters and events... and his writings and person history prove
        > > this.
        > > >
        > > > It is amazing how the supposedly most devout people will take a
        > > text and
        > > > fail to understand it because they ignore The Time, The Person
        > and
        > > The
        > > > Place and miss out all context. It is a pity that so many of
        > > Nichiren's
        > > > writings are De-contextualised and that there is no rationally
        > > presented
        > > > information which explicitly contextualises not Only Nichiren's
        > > life but
        > > > shows hoe his writings and thinking fitted over time and the
        > events
        > > he
        > > > was party too. Perhaps there is an opening here for someone to
        > > produce
        > > > such a book or set of volumes and further Nichiren's teachings
        > and
        > > > remove some of the opportunities for delusion and
        fundamentalism.
        > > >
        > > > Keep up the good work in setting the record straight!
        > > >
        > > > @~>~>~~~
        > > >
        > >
        >
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