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Re: Ingratitude

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  • hokkekofinland
    ... While each chief Priest has their own style I have never heard such guidance. The guidance generally is not to pay attention to footnotes and glossary of
    Message 1 of 29 , Nov 1, 2005
      --- In SokaGakkaiInternational@yahoogroups.com, "sithhappened"
      <sithhappened@y...> wrote:
      >
      > --- In SokaGakkaiInternational@yahoogroups.com, hokkekofinland
      > <no_reply@y...> wrote:
      > >
      > > In light of all you have posted recently here I am interested in
      > > hearing your reasons for leaving the Gakkai after the split.
      > > It seems very strange to me that someone who apparently was so
      > > following Mr Ikeda's guidances would go over to the Temple just like
      > that.
      > >
      > > All that you have written here about your time with the Gakkai has
      > > been so extremely comlimentary of the Gakkai teachings and leadership
      > > and it does cause one to wonder why you would ever have considered to
      > > turn your back on Mr Ikeda and his mentorship.
      > >
      > > Your saying you joined the Hokkeko in 1991 is in such contradiction to
      > > all you have written it does make one wonder what happened to you.
      > > When judging your posts you have always had such admiration of Mr
      > > Ikeda and of the Gakkai you still left it leads me to really wonder
      > > what happened to you?
      > >
      > > Jussi.
      >
      > Well, my question was, and either you or Carson can probably answer
      > this: Carson posts (below) that the first vol of the Major Writings
      > is the only outside study material the high priest allows a NST
      > practitioner to read. I have heard from others that lay beleivers and
      > the priesthood are allowed to read anything they wish. I have also
      > heard that the young NST priests study at Rissho University (Nichiren
      > Shu owned), where they study various religious books.
      > Which version is true?
      > Sh
      > >

      While each chief Priest has their own style I have never heard such
      guidance.
      The guidance generally is not to pay attention to footnotes and
      glossary of the vols 1-7.
      The first editions of the Major Writings are used by many Hokkeko
      believers. The later editions of Vol.1 are discouraged as changes were
      made by the SGI which were deemed incorrect.
      To see this most clearly look at the glossary in vol 1 edition 1 and
      then look at vol.2, 3 and so on. The glossary interpretations were
      gradually changed for some items such as the explanation of the Three
      Treasures of Nichiren Shoshu Buddhism.
      However naturally people can read whatever they like and the Priests
      in general would never tell you that you can nto read something. They
      might advise you on the matter and explain why in light of Nichiren
      Shoshu you might exercise caution and not accept the translation in full.
      Gradually this will become a moot point as the new translations
      appear. We now have a first volume available to believers.
      At this time sometimes the Priests use the old volumes and sometimes
      translate passages themselves so as to to be clear.

      There is no Gosho police in Hokkeko.

      Jussi.
    • Don Gropp
      I wonder why it happens that our minds are not full of daimoku at every moment? Do any of us know why it is
      Message 2 of 29 , Nov 1, 2005
        <<leads me to really wonder what happened to you?>>

        I wonder why it happens that our minds are not full of daimoku at
        every moment? Do any of us know why it is so difficult to 'chant at
        a critical moment?' I would imagine that the act of not chanting, in
        and of itself, would amount to some degree of slander. In that case,
        are we not turning our backs on "The Law."

        As has been quoted: "...'three obstacles and four devils emerge in
        confusing form, vying with one another to interfere . . . If one
        falls under their influence, one will be led into the paths of evil.
        If one is frightened by them, one will be prevented from practicing
        the correct teaching'" (The Actions of the Votary of the Lotus
        Sutra).

        "The Lotus Sutra tells us that 'faith is the key to wisdom' and 'one
        must use faith instead of one's limited understanding' and that
        we 'gain entrance through faith.' Nichiren Daishonin
        redefined 'faith' in concrete terms as 'embracing' the Gohonzon.
        To 'embrace the Gohonzon' is to observe one's own mind, that is, to
        awaken to the fact that you yourself embody the Mystic Law. This is
        what we call 'juji soku kanjin,' embracing the Gohonzon is
        enlightenment itself" (Lecture on the True Object of Worship, 1979).

        And yet, even knowing all of the above, we don't always chant when
        we should. As has been stated, inaction is a cause...so if I wanted
        to get personal I'd ask, "How about you, Jussi? How many times have
        you 'refused to listen to the Buddha's teaching' and neglected
        chanting?

        Me? I lose my "faith" all the time, everyday; whenever I'm not
        chanting. We're not so different.




        --- In SokaGakkaiInternational@yahoogroups.com, hokkekofinland
        <no_reply@y...> wrote:
        >
        > In light of all you have posted recently here I am interested in
        > hearing your reasons for leaving the Gakkai after the split.
        > It seems very strange to me that someone who apparently was so
        > following Mr Ikeda's guidances would go over to the Temple just
        like that.
        >
        > All that you have written here about your time with the Gakkai has
        > been so extremely comlimentary of the Gakkai teachings and
        leadership
        > and it does cause one to wonder why you would ever have considered
        to
        > turn your back on Mr Ikeda and his mentorship.
        >
        > Your saying you joined the Hokkeko in 1991 is in such
        contradiction to
        > all you have written it does make one wonder what happened to you.
        > When judging your posts you have always had such admiration of Mr
        > Ikeda and of the Gakkai you still left it leads me to really wonder
        > what happened to you?
        >
        > Jussi.
        >
        > --- In SokaGakkaiInternational@yahoogroups.com, "carsonlynn2001"
        > <carsonlynn2001@y...> wrote:
        > >
        > > Glad you asked, Steve.
        > >
        > > From Message 54083:
        > > "I cannot stress the significance of study enough. If I had
        studied
        > > seriously I never would have joined the temple in 1991. It is my
        > > deepest regret that I did..."
        > >
        > > The February 1990 guidance was so engraved into my consciousness
        that
        > > my continuous chanting of Daimoku and study of the First Edition
        > > Volume One of the Major Writings of Nichiren Daishonin (the ONLY
        > > OUTSIDE STUDY MATERIAL allowed by the chief priest)enabled me to
        see
        > > that the priesthoods's demand for total obedience and
        subservience to
        > > them was teaching me to depend on them for my enlightenment.
        They are
        > > 100% correct when the priests say that we in the SGI practice
        > > completely different than they do. (Hurray!) It was only one of
        many
        > > reasons that I found the courage to finally leave NST and return
        home
        > > to the SGI.
        > >
        > > "Rely on the Law [Nam-myoho-renge-kyo] and not on persons".
        > >
        > > Carson
        > >
        > > --- In
        SokaGakkaiInternational@yahoogroups.com, "steve_is_a_buddha"
        > > <steve_is_a_buddha@y...> wrote:
        > > >
        > > > Carson,
        > > >
        > > > I don't want to be pedantic here, but how does
        > > > this "tremendous "Team" spirit" and "What I experienced was
        > > > tremendous HOPE and EMPOWERMENT" square with your subsequent
        temple
        > > > experiences which occured quite soon after, as per your post:
        > > >
        > > >
        http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SokaGakkaiInternational/message/54083 ?
        > > >
        > > > STeve
        > > >
        > > > --- In
        SokaGakkaiInternational@yahoogroups.com, "carsonlynn2001"
        > > > <carsonlynn2001@y...> wrote:
        > > > >
        > > > > >--- In SokaGakkaiInternational@yahoogroups.com, "Colin"
        > > > > ><closeconnections@y...> wrote:
        > > > > >
        > > > > >
        > > > > > --- In SokaGakkaiInternational@yahoogroups.com, "Brian
        Holly"
        > > > > > <bholly72@y...> wrote:
        > > > > > >
        > > > > > > --- In
        > > > SokaGakkaiInternational@yahoogroups.com, "carsonlynn2001"
        > > > > > > <carsonlynn2001@y...> wrote:
        > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > >--- In
        SokaGakkaiInternational@yahoogroups.com, "Brian
        > > > Holly"
        > > > > > > > ><bholly72@y...> wrote:
        > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > --- In SokaGakkaiInternational@yahoogroups.com, "Don
        > > > Gropp"
        > > > > > > > > <djgropp@y...> wrote:
        > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > Re: Mr. George M. Williams nee Masayasu Sadanaga:
        > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > <<PI chose to disparage him, at one time in the
        new
        > > > human
        > > > > > > > > > revolution P.I. began to write about him, prior to
        the
        > > > > > split,
        > > > > > > that
        > > > > > > > > > has long since been deleted.>>
        > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > Betty, what you say above has no basis in reality.
        > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > Gee, Don, didn't you see the 1990 teleconference? PI
        > > > pretty
        > > > > > much
        > > > > > > > > humiliated Mr. Williams in public. He may have
        deserved
        > > > it --
        > > > > > > I'm >not
        > > > > > > > > much of a Mr. Williams fan -- but it doesn't do to
        pretend
        > > > it
        > > > > > > didn't
        > > > > > > > > happen. I saw it with my own eyes, as did thousands
        of
        > > > > > others. -
        > > > > > > >Brian
        > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > I am afraid that I do not see what you mean, Brian.
        The
        > > > First >SGI
        > > > > > > > All-America General Meeting, Saturday, February 24th,
        1990,
        > > > was
        > > > > > > > broadcast live via satellite to tens of thousands of
        SGI
        > > > members
        > > > > > > > gathered in sixty-four community and culture centers
        > > > throughout
        > > > > > the
        > > > > > > > United States. I saw it as strengthening our
        organization
        > > > with
        > > > > > > > tremendous "Team" spirit.
        > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > Carson
        > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > Astounding. - Brian
        > > > > > >
        > > > > >
        > > > > >
        > > > > > Carson -
        > > > > >
        > > > > > Do you honestly NOT remember what happened? What PI did to
        > > > Williams
        > > > > > on stage? Repeatedly?
        > > > > >
        > > > > > Colin
        > > > > >
        > > > >
        > > > > What I experienced was tremendous HOPE and EMPOWERMENT for
        our
        > > > > Community of Believers. I see it in action today. Our
        leaders today
        > > > > are our TEAM mates in faith, practice and study. We are ALL
        equals.
        > > > > Shakyamuni said it, Nichiren Daishonin said it, Tsunesaburo
        > > > Makiguchi
        > > > > said it, Josei Toda said it, Daisaku Ikeda said it, and
        George M.
        > > > > Williams said it, We are ALL equals. I thank the leader at
        the time
        > > > > who scolded me because of my pure joy and appreciation for
        all of
        > > > the
        > > > > empowering guidance from that historical month (readers can
        read a
        > > > > majority of it online at:
        > > > > http://www.gakkaionline.net/ST390/ ) and strictly admonished
        me
        > > > that
        > > > > if I liked it so much then I should read it over and over,
        and
        > > > > particularly the Mirror Guidance I should read every day.
        Thanks to
        > > > > that I am able to think for myself instead of depend on
        others to
        > > > > think for me.
        > > > >
        > > > > "Rely on the Law [Nam-myoho-renge-kyo] and not on persons"
        if you
        > > > > really want to be happy.
        > > > >
        > > > > Carson
        > > > >
        > > >
        > >
        >
      • Colin
        ... ============== If you notice you aren t filling your mind with daimoku at any given moment, you can redirect your mind in that moment to begin chanting
        Message 3 of 29 , Nov 1, 2005
          --- In SokaGakkaiInternational@yahoogroups.com, "Don Gropp"
          >
          > I wonder why it happens that our minds are not full of daimoku at
          > every moment?

          ==============
          If you notice you aren't filling your mind with daimoku at any given
          moment, you can redirect your mind in that moment to begin chanting
          (silently or audibly as circumstances dictate). This will help
          cultivate a calm, focused mind that attachments do not hold well to.
          =======================

          > Do any of us know why it is so difficult to 'chant at
          > a critical moment?'

          ===================
          In my experience, this used to happen a lot before I understood what
          the real purpose of practice is. When I realized what our true
          identity is and how practice functions to allow us to become free of
          delusion and reveal what is inherent in life, it became much easier
          to direct the mind to use a mantram and focus more fully while
          reciting scriptures.
          =====================

          > I would imagine that the act of not chanting, in
          > and of itself, would amount to some degree of slander.

          ==========
          I disagree. The consistency and frequency of chanting is not a
          measure of slander. Intention is. Intention while chanting or not
          determines whether action taken is slander.
          ==============

          > In that case, are we not turning our backs on "The Law."

          ==============
          No matter where you turn, there you are. You can't escape the Law,
          cannot actually turn your back on it.
          ===============

          > As has been quoted: "...'three obstacles and four devils emerge in
          > confusing form, vying with one another to interfere . . . If one
          > falls under their influence, one will be led into the paths of
          evil. If one is frightened by them, one will be prevented from
          practicing the correct teaching'" (The Actions of the Votary of the
          Lotus Sutra).
          >
          > "The Lotus Sutra tells us that 'faith is the key to wisdom'
          and 'one
          > must use faith instead of one's limited understanding' and that
          > we 'gain entrance through faith.' Nichiren Daishonin
          > redefined 'faith' in concrete terms as 'embracing' the Gohonzon.
          > To 'embrace the Gohonzon' is to observe one's own mind, that is, to
          > awaken to the fact that you yourself embody the Mystic Law. This is
          > what we call 'juji soku kanjin,' embracing the Gohonzon is
          > enlightenment itself" (Lecture on the True Object of Worship, 1979).
          >
          > And yet, even knowing all of the above, we don't always chant when
          > we should.

          ==============
          Again, this is nothing to worry about. Simply begin the mantram when
          you notice it is missing from the mind. Becoming angry at the mind or
          guilty or upset --- these are not condusive to calming the mind and
          seeing things clearly. So don't bother with them! Simply point the
          mind to begin the mantram, as many times as are necessary.
          Eventually, it will become first nature. The ego habits are first
          nature currently because they go unchecked and for the most part
          unseen by us common mortals! Replace the egoic habits with the habit
          of the mantram and scripture recitations. As the mind wanders,
          quietly and gently bring it back. Time will do the rest.
          ===================

          As has been stated, inaction is a cause...so if I wanted
          > to get personal I'd ask, "How about you, Jussi? How many times have
          > you 'refused to listen to the Buddha's teaching' and neglected
          > chanting?
          >
          > Me? I lose my "faith" all the time, everyday; whenever I'm not
          > chanting. We're not so different.
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > --- In SokaGakkaiInternational@yahoogroups.com, hokkekofinland
          > <no_reply@y...> wrote:
          > >
          > > In light of all you have posted recently here I am interested in
          > > hearing your reasons for leaving the Gakkai after the split.
          > > It seems very strange to me that someone who apparently was so
          > > following Mr Ikeda's guidances would go over to the Temple just
          > like that.
          > >
          > > All that you have written here about your time with the Gakkai has
          > > been so extremely comlimentary of the Gakkai teachings and
          > leadership
          > > and it does cause one to wonder why you would ever have
          considered
          > to
          > > turn your back on Mr Ikeda and his mentorship.
          > >
          > > Your saying you joined the Hokkeko in 1991 is in such
          > contradiction to
          > > all you have written it does make one wonder what happened to you.
          > > When judging your posts you have always had such admiration of Mr
          > > Ikeda and of the Gakkai you still left it leads me to really
          wonder
          > > what happened to you?
          > >
          > > Jussi.
          > >
          > > --- In SokaGakkaiInternational@yahoogroups.com, "carsonlynn2001"
          > > <carsonlynn2001@y...> wrote:
          > > >
          > > > Glad you asked, Steve.
          > > >
          > > > From Message 54083:
          > > > "I cannot stress the significance of study enough. If I had
          > studied
          > > > seriously I never would have joined the temple in 1991. It is my
          > > > deepest regret that I did..."
          > > >
          > > > The February 1990 guidance was so engraved into my
          consciousness
          > that
          > > > my continuous chanting of Daimoku and study of the First Edition
          > > > Volume One of the Major Writings of Nichiren Daishonin (the ONLY
          > > > OUTSIDE STUDY MATERIAL allowed by the chief priest)enabled me
          to
          > see
          > > > that the priesthoods's demand for total obedience and
          > subservience to
          > > > them was teaching me to depend on them for my enlightenment.
          > They are
          > > > 100% correct when the priests say that we in the SGI practice
          > > > completely different than they do. (Hurray!) It was only one of
          > many
          > > > reasons that I found the courage to finally leave NST and
          return
          > home
          > > > to the SGI.
          > > >
          > > > "Rely on the Law [Nam-myoho-renge-kyo] and not on persons".
          > > >
          > > > Carson
          > > >
          > > > --- In
          > SokaGakkaiInternational@yahoogroups.com, "steve_is_a_buddha"
          > > > <steve_is_a_buddha@y...> wrote:
          > > > >
          > > > > Carson,
          > > > >
          > > > > I don't want to be pedantic here, but how does
          > > > > this "tremendous "Team" spirit" and "What I experienced was
          > > > > tremendous HOPE and EMPOWERMENT" square with your subsequent
          > temple
          > > > > experiences which occured quite soon after, as per your post:
          > > > >
          > > > >
          >
          http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SokaGakkaiInternational/message/54083 ?
          > > > >
          > > > > STeve
          > > > >
          > > > > --- In
          > SokaGakkaiInternational@yahoogroups.com, "carsonlynn2001"
          > > > > <carsonlynn2001@y...> wrote:
          > > > > >
          > > > > > >--- In SokaGakkaiInternational@yahoogroups.com, "Colin"
          > > > > > ><closeconnections@y...> wrote:
          > > > > > >
          > > > > > >
          > > > > > > --- In SokaGakkaiInternational@yahoogroups.com, "Brian
          > Holly"
          > > > > > > <bholly72@y...> wrote:
          > > > > > > >
          > > > > > > > --- In
          > > > > SokaGakkaiInternational@yahoogroups.com, "carsonlynn2001"
          > > > > > > > <carsonlynn2001@y...> wrote:
          > > > > > > > >
          > > > > > > > > >--- In
          > SokaGakkaiInternational@yahoogroups.com, "Brian
          > > > > Holly"
          > > > > > > > > ><bholly72@y...> wrote:
          > > > > > > > > >
          > > > > > > > > > --- In
          SokaGakkaiInternational@yahoogroups.com, "Don
          > > > > Gropp"
          > > > > > > > > > <djgropp@y...> wrote:
          > > > > > > > > > >
          > > > > > > > > > > Re: Mr. George M. Williams nee Masayasu Sadanaga:
          > > > > > > > > > >
          > > > > > > > > > > <<PI chose to disparage him, at one time in the
          > new
          > > > > human
          > > > > > > > > > > revolution P.I. began to write about him, prior
          to
          > the
          > > > > > > split,
          > > > > > > > that
          > > > > > > > > > > has long since been deleted.>>
          > > > > > > > > > >
          > > > > > > > > > > Betty, what you say above has no basis in
          reality.
          > > > > > > > > > >
          > > > > > > > > > Gee, Don, didn't you see the 1990 teleconference?
          PI
          > > > > pretty
          > > > > > > much
          > > > > > > > > > humiliated Mr. Williams in public. He may have
          > deserved
          > > > > it --
          > > > > > > > I'm >not
          > > > > > > > > > much of a Mr. Williams fan -- but it doesn't do to
          > pretend
          > > > > it
          > > > > > > > didn't
          > > > > > > > > > happen. I saw it with my own eyes, as did thousands
          > of
          > > > > > > others. -
          > > > > > > > >Brian
          > > > > > > > > >
          > > > > > > > >
          > > > > > > > > I am afraid that I do not see what you mean, Brian.
          > The
          > > > > First >SGI
          > > > > > > > > All-America General Meeting, Saturday, February 24th,
          > 1990,
          > > > > was
          > > > > > > > > broadcast live via satellite to tens of thousands of
          > SGI
          > > > > members
          > > > > > > > > gathered in sixty-four community and culture centers
          > > > > throughout
          > > > > > > the
          > > > > > > > > United States. I saw it as strengthening our
          > organization
          > > > > with
          > > > > > > > > tremendous "Team" spirit.
          > > > > > > > >
          > > > > > > > > Carson
          > > > > > > > >
          > > > > > > > Astounding. - Brian
          > > > > > > >
          > > > > > >
          > > > > > >
          > > > > > > Carson -
          > > > > > >
          > > > > > > Do you honestly NOT remember what happened? What PI did
          to
          > > > > Williams
          > > > > > > on stage? Repeatedly?
          > > > > > >
          > > > > > > Colin
          > > > > > >
          > > > > >
          > > > > > What I experienced was tremendous HOPE and EMPOWERMENT for
          > our
          > > > > > Community of Believers. I see it in action today. Our
          > leaders today
          > > > > > are our TEAM mates in faith, practice and study. We are ALL
          > equals.
          > > > > > Shakyamuni said it, Nichiren Daishonin said it, Tsunesaburo
          > > > > Makiguchi
          > > > > > said it, Josei Toda said it, Daisaku Ikeda said it, and
          > George M.
          > > > > > Williams said it, We are ALL equals. I thank the leader at
          > the time
          > > > > > who scolded me because of my pure joy and appreciation for
          > all of
          > > > > the
          > > > > > empowering guidance from that historical month (readers can
          > read a
          > > > > > majority of it online at:
          > > > > > http://www.gakkaionline.net/ST390/ ) and strictly
          admonished
          > me
          > > > > that
          > > > > > if I liked it so much then I should read it over and over,
          > and
          > > > > > particularly the Mirror Guidance I should read every day.
          > Thanks to
          > > > > > that I am able to think for myself instead of depend on
          > others to
          > > > > > think for me.
          > > > > >
          > > > > > "Rely on the Law [Nam-myoho-renge-kyo] and not on persons"
          > if you
          > > > > > really want to be happy.
          > > > > >
          > > > > > Carson
          > > > > >
          > > > >
          > > >
          > >
          >
        • hokkekofinland
          ... Don; I am of course just the same as all normal people and we all are subject to changes in life condition at all times. However I have not missed a single
          Message 4 of 29 , Nov 1, 2005
            --- In SokaGakkaiInternational@yahoogroups.com, "Don Gropp"
            <djgropp@y...> wrote:
            >

            > And yet, even knowing all of the above, we don't always chant when
            > we should. As has been stated, inaction is a cause...so if I wanted
            > to get personal I'd ask, "How about you, Jussi? How many times have
            > you 'refused to listen to the Buddha's teaching' and neglected
            > chanting?
            >
            > Me? I lose my "faith" all the time, everyday; whenever I'm not
            > chanting. We're not so different.
            >
            >
            >

            Don;

            I am of course just the same as all normal people and we all are
            subject to changes in life condition at all times.

            However I have not missed a single Gongyo since I started this
            practise. Not one. I do not say to boast about it as I see it just
            that I am very fortunate to always want to do it. I know that it is
            the sword that pierces through any suffering, any problem..I would be
            a fool to discard it!

            Of course for instance when travelling on a plane it is difficult yet
            I still manage to do it somehow very quietly in my seat holding my
            juzu as normal and my Omamori inside my palms.

            When flying to Japan you have to do two Gongyos as it is such a long
            flight and it can be inhibiting as you don't wish to disturb or even
            scare other passengers. But usually, especially on flights to Japan,
            people see the juzu and they understand you are a buddhist so no-one
            has ever complained to me about it.

            Naturally the amount of Daimoku I do varies depending on other demands
            on my time but I still try and make it always a priority. So if
            meeting people in the evening I try and tell them I will go home first
            and do my evening chanting and come out and meet them afterwards.
            There are times when evening Gongyo happens as late as 11pm...but I
            feel I must do it no matter what or where.

            It is not so much a must to do it but I rather see it is as great
            fortune to be able to do it every day and slowly change and purify my
            life. Of course sometimes there are some doubts but those doubts make
            me go and chant even more.

            I hope I will carry on in this way until the last moment. And even
            then I pray it will be Daimoku on my lips.

            Jussi.
          • wahzoh
            (top post) Wow, I never know what to say to those never missed a gongyo people. I m impressed, Jussi - how many years have you been chanting? I m at 21
            Message 5 of 29 , Nov 1, 2005
              (top post) Wow, I never know what to say to those "never missed a
              gongyo" people. I'm impressed, Jussi - how many years have you been
              chanting? I'm at 21 and I have missed a few gongyos over the years.
              And you always do 5 and 3? Never do "gongyo lite"? I find that I
              miss doing "B" and sometimes add that in at home. But then I also
              read the sutra aloud in English at home. I find especially that
              doing "B" helps me sort of "lift off" into the prayers for the
              deceased. Best, Byrd in LA


              --- In SokaGakkaiInternational@yahoogroups.com, hokkekofinland
              <no_reply@y...> wrote:
              >
              > --- In SokaGakkaiInternational@yahoogroups.com, "Don Gropp"
              > <djgropp@y...> wrote:
              > >
              >
              > > And yet, even knowing all of the above, we don't always chant
              when
              > > we should. As has been stated, inaction is a cause...so if I
              wanted
              > > to get personal I'd ask, "How about you, Jussi? How many times
              have
              > > you 'refused to listen to the Buddha's teaching' and neglected
              > > chanting?
              > >
              > > Me? I lose my "faith" all the time, everyday; whenever I'm not
              > > chanting. We're not so different.
              > >
              > >
              > >
              >
              > Don;
              >
              > I am of course just the same as all normal people and we all are
              > subject to changes in life condition at all times.
              >
              > However I have not missed a single Gongyo since I started this
              > practise. Not one. I do not say to boast about it as I see it just
              > that I am very fortunate to always want to do it. I know that it is
              > the sword that pierces through any suffering, any problem..I would
              be
              > a fool to discard it!
              >
              > Of course for instance when travelling on a plane it is difficult
              yet
              > I still manage to do it somehow very quietly in my seat holding my
              > juzu as normal and my Omamori inside my palms.
              >
              > When flying to Japan you have to do two Gongyos as it is such a long
              > flight and it can be inhibiting as you don't wish to disturb or even
              > scare other passengers. But usually, especially on flights to Japan,
              > people see the juzu and they understand you are a buddhist so no-one
              > has ever complained to me about it.
              >
              > Naturally the amount of Daimoku I do varies depending on other
              demands
              > on my time but I still try and make it always a priority. So if
              > meeting people in the evening I try and tell them I will go home
              first
              > and do my evening chanting and come out and meet them afterwards.
              > There are times when evening Gongyo happens as late as 11pm...but I
              > feel I must do it no matter what or where.
              >
              > It is not so much a must to do it but I rather see it is as great
              > fortune to be able to do it every day and slowly change and purify
              my
              > life. Of course sometimes there are some doubts but those doubts
              make
              > me go and chant even more.
              >
              > I hope I will carry on in this way until the last moment. And even
              > then I pray it will be Daimoku on my lips.
              >
              > Jussi.
              >
            • Robin Ray Beck
              I quit doing ritual gongyo some time ago. Just my personality, I found it oppressive. Too much like homework. Now I chant more and feel better about it than I
              Message 6 of 29 , Nov 1, 2005
                I quit doing ritual gongyo some time ago. Just my personality, I
                found it oppressive. Too much like homework. Now I chant more and
                feel better about it than I ever have.

                And Nichiren never taught any set Gongyo format.

                BTW, I met a Hokkeko member from Japoan in 1984. He told me daily
                Gongyo at home for the laity was a fanatical Gakkai thing. He said
                he chanted once a week. I thought that sounded kewl. :)

                r


                --- In SokaGakkaiInternational@yahoogroups.com, wahzoh
                <no_reply@y...> wrote:
                >
                > (top post) Wow, I never know what to say to those "never missed a
                > gongyo" people. I'm impressed, Jussi - how many years have you
                been
                > chanting? I'm at 21 and I have missed a few gongyos over the
                years.
                > And you always do 5 and 3? Never do "gongyo lite"? I find that I
                > miss doing "B" and sometimes add that in at home. But then I also
                > read the sutra aloud in English at home. I find especially that
                > doing "B" helps me sort of "lift off" into the prayers for the
                > deceased. Best, Byrd in LA
                >
                >
                > --- In SokaGakkaiInternational@yahoogroups.com, hokkekofinland
                > <no_reply@y...> wrote:
                > >
                > > --- In SokaGakkaiInternational@yahoogroups.com, "Don Gropp"
                > > <djgropp@y...> wrote:
                > > >
                > >
                > > > And yet, even knowing all of the above, we don't always chant
                > when
                > > > we should. As has been stated, inaction is a cause...so if I
                > wanted
                > > > to get personal I'd ask, "How about you, Jussi? How many times
                > have
                > > > you 'refused to listen to the Buddha's teaching' and neglected
                > > > chanting?
                > > >
                > > > Me? I lose my "faith" all the time, everyday; whenever I'm not
                > > > chanting. We're not so different.
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > >
                > > Don;
                > >
                > > I am of course just the same as all normal people and we all are
                > > subject to changes in life condition at all times.
                > >
                > > However I have not missed a single Gongyo since I started this
                > > practise. Not one. I do not say to boast about it as I see it
                just
                > > that I am very fortunate to always want to do it. I know that it
                is
                > > the sword that pierces through any suffering, any problem..I
                would
                > be
                > > a fool to discard it!
                > >
                > > Of course for instance when travelling on a plane it is
                difficult
                > yet
                > > I still manage to do it somehow very quietly in my seat holding
                my
                > > juzu as normal and my Omamori inside my palms.
                > >
                > > When flying to Japan you have to do two Gongyos as it is such a
                long
                > > flight and it can be inhibiting as you don't wish to disturb or
                even
                > > scare other passengers. But usually, especially on flights to
                Japan,
                > > people see the juzu and they understand you are a buddhist so no-
                one
                > > has ever complained to me about it.
                > >
                > > Naturally the amount of Daimoku I do varies depending on other
                > demands
                > > on my time but I still try and make it always a priority. So if
                > > meeting people in the evening I try and tell them I will go home
                > first
                > > and do my evening chanting and come out and meet them afterwards.
                > > There are times when evening Gongyo happens as late as
                11pm...but I
                > > feel I must do it no matter what or where.
                > >
                > > It is not so much a must to do it but I rather see it is as great
                > > fortune to be able to do it every day and slowly change and
                purify
                > my
                > > life. Of course sometimes there are some doubts but those doubts
                > make
                > > me go and chant even more.
                > >
                > > I hope I will carry on in this way until the last moment. And
                even
                > > then I pray it will be Daimoku on my lips.
                > >
                > > Jussi.
                > >
                >
              • hokkekofinland
                ... Hi Byrd; I have practised for about 18 years only so not as long as many here. I did my first Gongyo on February 7 1988. And just continued to do so ever
                Message 7 of 29 , Nov 1, 2005
                  --- In SokaGakkaiInternational@yahoogroups.com, wahzoh <no_reply@y...>
                  wrote:
                  >
                  > (top post) Wow, I never know what to say to those "never missed a
                  > gongyo" people. I'm impressed, Jussi - how many years have you been
                  > chanting? I'm at 21 and I have missed a few gongyos over the years.
                  > And you always do 5 and 3? Never do "gongyo lite"? I find that I
                  > miss doing "B" and sometimes add that in at home. But then I also
                  > read the sutra aloud in English at home. I find especially that
                  > doing "B" helps me sort of "lift off" into the prayers for the
                  > deceased. Best, Byrd in LA
                  >
                  >

                  Hi Byrd;

                  I have practised for about 18 years only so not as long as many here.

                  I did my first Gongyo on February 7 1988. And just continued to do so
                  ever since.
                  Of course it is the full Nichiren Shoshu five prayers version as I had
                  left the Gakkai when the new form came in.

                  Sometimes I do en extra ceremonial in cases like memorials for someone
                  and it is better to do it separate from evening or morning Gongyo I
                  feel. As well as most days I try and do my Daimoku main part as Shodai
                  (Hoben and Jigage prior to Daimoku) separate from my morning and
                  evenign Gongyo if time allows me to do so.

                  When I visit various Temples in Japan they tend to do Evening Gongyo
                  plus Hoben and Jigage before doing Shodai. Of course you have also
                  chanted Daimoku with your evening Gongyo. It is really nice to go to a
                  Temple there as they tend to do an hour long Shodai every night after
                  evening Gongyo unless there is a ceremony happening that day.

                  I don't know if there is any special trick to make you do it every
                  morning and evening. It is more than just a habit though. More like a
                  natural part of my day like I have to eat lunch and dinner. I view it
                  more like my daily appointment with the Buddha.

                  I appreciate it is hard for some and with shakubuku I try and
                  encourage them to try their best to keep it steady (like water) but if
                  they fail it is not a crime. You just try again the next day. The sky
                  will not fall if you miss it (I think?)and I would never advocate
                  teaching people to fear that something dreadful would happen if they
                  miss Gongyo.
                  It just helps me feel more connected to the realm of the Buddha and
                  see the world around me less from my ego. I hope so in any case ; 0

                  Jussi.





                  > --- In SokaGakkaiInternational@yahoogroups.com, hokkekofinland
                  > <no_reply@y...> wrote:
                  > >
                  > > --- In SokaGakkaiInternational@yahoogroups.com, "Don Gropp"
                  > > <djgropp@y...> wrote:
                  > > >
                  > >
                  > > > And yet, even knowing all of the above, we don't always chant
                  > when
                  > > > we should. As has been stated, inaction is a cause...so if I
                  > wanted
                  > > > to get personal I'd ask, "How about you, Jussi? How many times
                  > have
                  > > > you 'refused to listen to the Buddha's teaching' and neglected
                  > > > chanting?
                  > > >
                  > > > Me? I lose my "faith" all the time, everyday; whenever I'm not
                  > > > chanting. We're not so different.
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > >
                  > > Don;
                  > >
                  > > I am of course just the same as all normal people and we all are
                  > > subject to changes in life condition at all times.
                  > >
                  > > However I have not missed a single Gongyo since I started this
                  > > practise. Not one. I do not say to boast about it as I see it just
                  > > that I am very fortunate to always want to do it. I know that it is
                  > > the sword that pierces through any suffering, any problem..I would
                  > be
                  > > a fool to discard it!
                  > >
                  > > Of course for instance when travelling on a plane it is difficult
                  > yet
                  > > I still manage to do it somehow very quietly in my seat holding my
                  > > juzu as normal and my Omamori inside my palms.
                  > >
                  > > When flying to Japan you have to do two Gongyos as it is such a long
                  > > flight and it can be inhibiting as you don't wish to disturb or even
                  > > scare other passengers. But usually, especially on flights to Japan,
                  > > people see the juzu and they understand you are a buddhist so no-one
                  > > has ever complained to me about it.
                  > >
                  > > Naturally the amount of Daimoku I do varies depending on other
                  > demands
                  > > on my time but I still try and make it always a priority. So if
                  > > meeting people in the evening I try and tell them I will go home
                  > first
                  > > and do my evening chanting and come out and meet them afterwards.
                  > > There are times when evening Gongyo happens as late as 11pm...but I
                  > > feel I must do it no matter what or where.
                  > >
                  > > It is not so much a must to do it but I rather see it is as great
                  > > fortune to be able to do it every day and slowly change and purify
                  > my
                  > > life. Of course sometimes there are some doubts but those doubts
                  > make
                  > > me go and chant even more.
                  > >
                  > > I hope I will carry on in this way until the last moment. And even
                  > > then I pray it will be Daimoku on my lips.
                  > >
                  > > Jussi.
                  > >
                  >
                • Greg Lieberman
                  Wow, Robin, is that realy you? Of all people I would never have guesed you d be free-forming daimokuer! If Gongyo is like homework than wouldn t you love it?
                  Message 8 of 29 , Nov 2, 2005
                    Wow, Robin, is that realy you? Of all people I would
                    never have guesed you'd be free-forming daimokuer! If
                    Gongyo is like homework than wouldn't you love it? Oh
                    I get it, it has to be self initiated, eh? Well that
                    just made my day.

                    G

                    --- Robin Ray Beck <rrobinrb@...> wrote:

                    > I quit doing ritual gongyo some time ago. Just my
                    > personality, I
                    > found it oppressive. Too much like homework. Now I
                    > chant more and
                    > feel better about it than I ever have.
                    >
                    > And Nichiren never taught any set Gongyo format.
                    >
                    > BTW, I met a Hokkeko member from Japoan in 1984. He
                    > told me daily
                    > Gongyo at home for the laity was a fanatical Gakkai
                    > thing. He said
                    > he chanted once a week. I thought that sounded kewl.
                    > :)
                    >
                    > r
                    >
                    >
                    > --- In SokaGakkaiInternational@yahoogroups.com,
                    > wahzoh
                    > <no_reply@y...> wrote:
                    > >
                    > > (top post) Wow, I never know what to say to those
                    > "never missed a
                    > > gongyo" people. I'm impressed, Jussi - how many
                    > years have you
                    > been
                    > > chanting? I'm at 21 and I have missed a few
                    > gongyos over the
                    > years.
                    > > And you always do 5 and 3? Never do "gongyo
                    > lite"? I find that I
                    > > miss doing "B" and sometimes add that in at home.
                    > But then I also
                    > > read the sutra aloud in English at home. I find
                    > especially that
                    > > doing "B" helps me sort of "lift off" into the
                    > prayers for the
                    > > deceased. Best, Byrd in LA
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > --- In SokaGakkaiInternational@yahoogroups.com,
                    > hokkekofinland
                    > > <no_reply@y...> wrote:
                    > > >
                    > > > --- In SokaGakkaiInternational@yahoogroups.com,
                    > "Don Gropp"
                    > > > <djgropp@y...> wrote:
                    > > > >
                    > > >
                    > > > > And yet, even knowing all of the above, we
                    > don't always chant
                    > > when
                    > > > > we should. As has been stated, inaction is a
                    > cause...so if I
                    > > wanted
                    > > > > to get personal I'd ask, "How about you,
                    > Jussi? How many times
                    > > have
                    > > > > you 'refused to listen to the Buddha's
                    > teaching' and neglected
                    > > > > chanting?
                    > > > >
                    > > > > Me? I lose my "faith" all the time, everyday;
                    > whenever I'm not
                    > > > > chanting. We're not so different.
                    > > > >
                    > > > >
                    > > > >
                    > > >
                    > > > Don;
                    > > >
                    > > > I am of course just the same as all normal
                    > people and we all are
                    > > > subject to changes in life condition at all
                    > times.
                    > > >
                    > > > However I have not missed a single Gongyo since
                    > I started this
                    > > > practise. Not one. I do not say to boast about
                    > it as I see it
                    > just
                    > > > that I am very fortunate to always want to do
                    > it. I know that it
                    > is
                    > > > the sword that pierces through any suffering,
                    > any problem..I
                    > would
                    > > be
                    > > > a fool to discard it!
                    > > >
                    > > > Of course for instance when travelling on a
                    > plane it is
                    > difficult
                    > > yet
                    > > > I still manage to do it somehow very quietly in
                    > my seat holding
                    > my
                    > > > juzu as normal and my Omamori inside my palms.
                    > > >
                    > > > When flying to Japan you have to do two Gongyos
                    > as it is such a
                    > long
                    > > > flight and it can be inhibiting as you don't
                    > wish to disturb or
                    > even
                    > > > scare other passengers. But usually, especially
                    > on flights to
                    > Japan,
                    > > > people see the juzu and they understand you are
                    > a buddhist so no-
                    > one
                    > > > has ever complained to me about it.
                    > > >
                    > > > Naturally the amount of Daimoku I do varies
                    > depending on other
                    > > demands
                    > > > on my time but I still try and make it always a
                    > priority. So if
                    > > > meeting people in the evening I try and tell
                    > them I will go home
                    > > first
                    > > > and do my evening chanting and come out and meet
                    > them afterwards.
                    > > > There are times when evening Gongyo happens as
                    > late as
                    > 11pm...but I
                    > > > feel I must do it no matter what or where.
                    > > >
                    > > > It is not so much a must to do it but I rather
                    > see it is as great
                    > > > fortune to be able to do it every day and slowly
                    > change and
                    > purify
                    > > my
                    > > > life. Of course sometimes there are some doubts
                    > but those doubts
                    > > make
                    > > > me go and chant even more.
                    > > >
                    > > > I hope I will carry on in this way until the
                    > last moment. And
                    > even
                    > > > then I pray it will be Daimoku on my lips.
                    > > >
                    > > > Jussi.
                    > > >
                    > >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >




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