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Re: Yahoo! News Story - Mayor: Katrina May Have Killed Thousands - Yahoo! News

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  • carsonlynn2001
    Dear Readers, The following is from: http://www.sgi-usa.org/ Update on Hurricane Katrina On Aug. 29, Hurricane Katrina, a Category 4 storm (winds 131–55 mph
    Message 1 of 23 , Aug 31, 2005
      Dear Readers,

      The following is from:
      http://www.sgi-usa.org/


      Update on Hurricane Katrina


      On Aug. 29, Hurricane Katrina, a Category 4 storm (winds 131–55 mph
      with waves between 13 and 18 feet) hit the southern part of the United
      States, destroying much of the coast of Mississippi and Louisiana. The
      city of New Orleans was heavily damaged from flood waters after the
      storm had passed.


      At this time, the majority of the SGI-USA members have evacuated New
      Orleans. Local SGI-USA leaders are trying to maintain contact with the
      New Orleans members and those in Gulf Port and Biloxi, Miss.


      The SGI-USA Southeast Zone leaders and South Central Region leaders
      have been praying together and contacting all the members one by one.
      Members from all over the southeast were doing their best to lend
      support as best they could.


      Also in support, SGI President and Mrs. Ikeda sent several messages to
      the SGI-USA members in the area. One message read: "My wife and I are
      very concerned about the effects of the hurricane. We are chanting and
      sending our sincerest prayers for all the people in those affected areas."


      SGI-USA General Director Danny Nagashima is planning to visit members
      affected by the disaster this weekend to offer encouragement and
      assess the situation.


      Everyone's prayers for the victims' safety and speedy return to normal
      life are sincerely appreciated.
      http://sgi-usa.org/katrina/

      I also find the following from the SGI-USA Study Material
      THE INTERMEDIATE-LEVEL TEXTBOOK timely:

      PART 2: "RISSHO ANKOKU RON"*
      TWO LECTURES BY SGI PRESIDENT DAISAKU IKEDA
      The following was adapted by the SGI-USA Study Department from and
      essay by SGI-USA Vice Study Department Chief Greg Martin that appeared
      in the Seikyo Times (October-December 1993) and other sources.
      Continue reading at:
      http://www.sgi-usa.org/buddhism/library/SokaGakkai/Study/Intermediate/Text2.htm

      http://tinyurl.com/d57cl

      *On Establishing the Correct Teaching for the Peace of the Land (p. 6
      - 26)
      Written to Hojo Tokiyori on 16 July 1260 from Kamakura
      * http://www.sgi-usa.org/buddhism/library/Nichiren/wnd/

      Nam-myoho-renge-kyo,
      Carson



      --- In SokaGakkaiInternational@yahoogroups.com, Carson Lynn Nichols
      <carsonlynn2001@y...> wrote:
      > Carson Lynn Nichols (carsonlynn2001@y...) has sent you a news article.
      > (Email address has not been verified.)
      > ------------------------------------------------------------
      > Personal message:
      >
      > Read :
      > On Establishing the Correct Teaching for the Peace of the Land (p. 6
      - 26)
      > Written to Hojo Tokiyori on 16 July 1260 from Kamakura
      > Nam-myoho=renge-kyo,
      > Carson
      >
      > Mayor: Katrina May Have Killed Thousands - Yahoo! News
      >
      > http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/hurricane_katrina
      >
      > ============================================================
      > Yahoo! News
      > http://news.yahoo.com/
    • onegreatreason
      ... United ... The ... the ... one. ... to ... are ... and ... areas. ... members ... normal ... appeared ...
      Message 2 of 23 , Sep 1, 2005
        --- In SokaGakkaiInternational@yahoogroups.com, "carsonlynn2001"
        <carsonlynn2001@y...> wrote:
        > Dear Readers,
        >
        > The following is from:
        > http://www.sgi-usa.org/
        >
        >
        > Update on Hurricane Katrina
        >
        >
        > On Aug. 29, Hurricane Katrina, a Category 4 storm (winds 131–55 mph
        > with waves between 13 and 18 feet) hit the southern part of the
        United
        > States, destroying much of the coast of Mississippi and Louisiana.
        The
        > city of New Orleans was heavily damaged from flood waters after the
        > storm had passed.
        >
        >
        > At this time, the majority of the SGI-USA members have evacuated New
        > Orleans. Local SGI-USA leaders are trying to maintain contact with
        the
        > New Orleans members and those in Gulf Port and Biloxi, Miss.
        >
        >
        > The SGI-USA Southeast Zone leaders and South Central Region leaders
        > have been praying together and contacting all the members one by
        one.
        > Members from all over the southeast were doing their best to lend
        > support as best they could.
        >
        >
        > Also in support, SGI President and Mrs. Ikeda sent several messages
        to
        > the SGI-USA members in the area. One message read: "My wife and I
        are
        > very concerned about the effects of the hurricane. We are chanting
        and
        > sending our sincerest prayers for all the people in those affected
        areas."
        >
        >
        > SGI-USA General Director Danny Nagashima is planning to visit
        members
        > affected by the disaster this weekend to offer encouragement and
        > assess the situation.
        >
        >
        > Everyone's prayers for the victims' safety and speedy return to
        normal
        > life are sincerely appreciated.
        > http://sgi-usa.org/katrina/
        >
        > I also find the following from the SGI-USA Study Material
        > THE INTERMEDIATE-LEVEL TEXTBOOK timely:
        >
        > PART 2: "RISSHO ANKOKU RON"*
        > TWO LECTURES BY SGI PRESIDENT DAISAKU IKEDA
        > The following was adapted by the SGI-USA Study Department from and
        > essay by SGI-USA Vice Study Department Chief Greg Martin that
        appeared
        > in the Seikyo Times (October-December 1993) and other sources.
        > Continue reading at:
        > http://www.sgi-
        usa.org/buddhism/library/SokaGakkai/Study/Intermediate/Text2.htm
        >
        > http://tinyurl.com/d57cl
        >
        > *On Establishing the Correct Teaching for the Peace of the Land (p.
        6
        > - 26)
        > Written to Hojo Tokiyori on 16 July 1260 from Kamakura
        > * http://www.sgi-usa.org/buddhism/library/Nichiren/wnd/
        >
        > Nam-myoho-renge-kyo,
        > Carson
        >
        >
        >
        > --- In SokaGakkaiInternational@yahoogroups.com, Carson Lynn Nichols
        > <carsonlynn2001@y...> wrote:
        > > Carson Lynn Nichols (carsonlynn2001@y...) has sent you a news
        article.
        > > (Email address has not been verified.)
        > > ------------------------------------------------------------
        > > Personal message:
        > >
        > > Read :
        > > On Establishing the Correct Teaching for the Peace of the Land
        (p. 6
        > - 26)
        > > Written to Hojo Tokiyori on 16 July 1260 from Kamakura
        > > Nam-myoho=renge-kyo,
        > > Carson
        > >
        > > Mayor: Katrina May Have Killed Thousands - Yahoo! News
        > >
        > > http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/hurricane_katrina
        > >
        > > ============================================================
        > > Yahoo! News
        > > http://news.yahoo.com/

        I think this might be the worst disaster ever in the U.S. in terms
        of numbers of refugees. And these people are going to need shelter
        etc. for quite some time. Donate what you can. I don't think of it as
        karmic retribution for the murderous policies of the U.S. government
        though. I can't really connect those dots.

        one great reason
      • ryuei2000
        ... I agree with Dave here. Note that I said may and not definately, absolutely. And I did do a search and there are scientists (granted in the minority)
        Message 3 of 23 , Sep 1, 2005
          --- In SokaGakkaiInternational@yahoogroups.com, "gaydave53"
          <tapetodisc@h...> wrote:
          > "Andy Hanlen" wrote:
          >
          > "...What arrogance to think that our puny meddlings could have
          > such an effect on the planet"
          >
          > About as arrogant as thinking we could deplete the sea of fish, hack
          > away the planet's lungs and poison her firmament...
          >

          I agree with Dave here. Note that I said "may" and not "definately,
          absolutely." And I did do a search and there are scientists (granted
          in the minority) who believe there is a global warming trend that
          could be effecting the hurricane season. Frankly, I don't trust the
          biased reports of this government and the petroleum industry which
          wants to stick its head in the sand and pretend that our actions as a
          species have no consequences. That strikes me as equally absurd.

          What needs to be done is to have a lot more objective study of this
          phenomena - study not biased by neo-con or liberal agendas. I have not
          seen anything conclusive either way yet - but a lot of hot air from
          both sides.

          Namu Myoho Renge Kyo,
          Ryuei

          *******************************************************************
        • Jim Celer
          ... not ... Don t know that that s possible in this ideological age. Drop a team of Martian scientists here, who know nothing about Terran society, perfectly
          Message 4 of 23 , Sep 1, 2005
            --- In SokaGakkaiInternational@yahoogroups.com, ryuei2000
            <no_reply@y...> wrote:

            > >
            >
            >
            > What needs to be done is to have a lot more objective study of this
            > phenomena - study not biased by neo-con or liberal agendas. I have
            not
            > seen anything conclusive either way yet - but a lot of hot air from
            > both sides.
            >
            > Namu Myoho Renge Kyo,
            > Ryuei
            >

            Don't know that that's possible in this ideological age. Drop a team
            of Martian scientists here, who know nothing about Terran society,
            perfectly objective folks. If they conclude humans are causing
            global warming, they will be accused of having a liberal agenda. If
            they conclude it's a myth, they will be accused of being apologists
            for big business. IOW, objectively objective as they may be, they'd
            be taken seriously only by those who already believe their
            conclusion. A sad state of affairs.
            Jim
          • ryuei2000
            ... as ... Here is a link to someone who did connect the dots: http://www.pnionline.com/dnblog/attytood/archives/002331.html I have written about this more
            Message 5 of 23 , Sep 1, 2005
              --- In SokaGakkaiInternational@yahoogroups.com, "onegreatreason"
              <onegreatreason@y...> wrote:
              > I think this might be the worst disaster ever in the U.S. in terms
              > of numbers of refugees. And these people are going to need shelter
              > etc. for quite some time. Donate what you can. I don't think of it
              as
              > karmic retribution for the murderous policies of the U.S. government
              > though. I can't really connect those dots.
              >
              > one great reason

              Here is a link to someone who did connect the dots:

              http://www.pnionline.com/dnblog/attytood/archives/002331.html

              I have written about this more extensively at the Nichiren Shu yahoo
              group, so I will only summarize here: causes have effects, and you
              don't get an effect without a cause. But the bodhisattvas don't stop
              at assigning blame the way fighting demons would. Rather, they try to
              discern the causes and conditions, see where responsibility need to be
              taken, and then act in a way that will relieve suffering and avert
              such bad effects in the future.

              Namu Myoho Renge Kyo,
              Ryuei

              *********************************************************************
            • onegreatreason
              ... terms ... shelter ... it ... government ... yahoo ... stop ... to ... be ... ********************************************************************* Yes,I ve
              Message 6 of 23 , Sep 1, 2005
                --- In SokaGakkaiInternational@yahoogroups.com, ryuei2000
                <no_reply@y...> wrote:
                > --- In SokaGakkaiInternational@yahoogroups.com, "onegreatreason"
                > <onegreatreason@y...> wrote:
                > > I think this might be the worst disaster ever in the U.S. in
                terms
                > > of numbers of refugees. And these people are going to need
                shelter
                > > etc. for quite some time. Donate what you can. I don't think of
                it
                > as
                > > karmic retribution for the murderous policies of the U.S.
                government
                > > though. I can't really connect those dots.
                > >
                > > one great reason
                >
                > Here is a link to someone who did connect the dots:
                >
                > http://www.pnionline.com/dnblog/attytood/archives/002331.html
                >
                > I have written about this more extensively at the Nichiren Shu
                yahoo
                > group, so I will only summarize here: causes have effects, and you
                > don't get an effect without a cause. But the bodhisattvas don't
                stop
                > at assigning blame the way fighting demons would. Rather, they try
                to
                > discern the causes and conditions, see where responsibility need to
                be
                > taken, and then act in a way that will relieve suffering and avert
                > such bad effects in the future.
                >
                > Namu Myoho Renge Kyo,
                > Ryuei
                >
                >
                *********************************************************************

                Yes,I've heard that too. I definately think we have our priorities
                screwed up. Trying to put the blame for what happened on that is
                political grandstanding. Which is business as usual. And no one hates
                Bush more than me.

                one great reason
              • sunderlandmick
                ... team ... If ... apologists ... they d ... I suspect you are right. What is scientific proof anyway ? It s one thing to convince scientists of something,
                Message 7 of 23 , Sep 1, 2005
                  --- In SokaGakkaiInternational@yahoogroups.com, "Jim Celer"
                  <jimceler@y...> wrote:
                  >>
                  > Don't know that that's possible in this ideological age. Drop a
                  team
                  > of Martian scientists here, who know nothing about Terran society,
                  > perfectly objective folks. If they conclude humans are causing
                  > global warming, they will be accused of having a liberal agenda.
                  If
                  > they conclude it's a myth, they will be accused of being
                  apologists
                  > for big business. IOW, objectively objective as they may be,
                  they'd
                  > be taken seriously only by those who already believe their
                  > conclusion. A sad state of affairs.
                  > Jim

                  I suspect you are right. What is scientific proof anyway ? It's one
                  thing to convince scientists of something, but in a country where
                  the President believes that Intelligent Design is a scientific
                  theory, is it really conceivable that any evidence could be strong
                  enough to prove the case to all the people who would need to believe
                  it.

                  In America today people regularly accept or reject scientific
                  propositions based on their political or religious beliefs. People
                  who have hard line opinions about drugs believe it has been
                  conclusively proved that marijuana has no beneficial effects for
                  cancer patients, and that any studies which show the opposite have
                  been refuted. The folks who are blocking the use of heavy duty
                  painkillers for people with intractable long term pain aren't
                  saying, tough, you just have to suffer for the greater good. They
                  believe that there are always other options which work just as well
                  or better.

                  As far as global warming being driven by human activity, my feeling
                  is that the case hasn't been proven yet. The problem is that the
                  case might be unprovable even if it's true. We know that the world
                  is warming up and climate changes are occuring. We know that carbon
                  dioxide in the atmosphere traps heat, and that human activity
                  produces lots of carbon dioxide. We know that some ice fields are
                  melting and glaciers are shrinking. But we don't know enough about
                  how the planet works to say whether this is caused by human activity
                  or natural processes. And we don't know enough to calculate how far
                  it will go.

                  There are computer models but they aren't sophisticated enough to
                  produce reliable predictions. It's a bit like weather prediction.
                  Maybe we need a computer a hundred times more powerful in order to
                  get consistent predictions, or maybe we need one a billion times
                  more powerful. Maybe global warming really is happening and someone
                  will prove it next year some time, or maybe human ability to prove
                  it scientifically is a hundred years away and human society will
                  have collapsed long before we get there.

                  It would be a shame if that happened, and we had the ability to
                  avert it but didn't because our science wasn't quite advanced enough
                  to produce incontrovertible proof that it was happening. But still
                  there are people who are completely convinced that it is happening,
                  and people who are completely convinced that it is a liberal urban
                  legend.

                  Like you said, people will believe whatever they want. Like
                  President Ikeda. People look at the same facts and conclude he is
                  either a charlatan or a saint. Facts and proof are less clear cut
                  than we sometimes like to think. We all think we are objective and
                  the people who disagree with us are wearing blinkers.

                  Mick
                • Bridget
                  ... you ... try ... to ... avert ... hates ... Actually we can blame Bush and his policies for at least part of the unfolding Katrina disaster happening right
                  Message 8 of 23 , Sep 1, 2005
                    --- In SokaGakkaiInternational@yahoogroups.com, "onegreatreason"
                    <onegreatreason@y...> wrote:
                    > --- In SokaGakkaiInternational@yahoogroups.com, ryuei2000
                    > <no_reply@y...> wrote:
                    > > --- In SokaGakkaiInternational@yahoogroups.com, "onegreatreason"
                    > > <onegreatreason@y...> wrote:
                    > > > I think this might be the worst disaster ever in the U.S. in
                    > terms
                    > > > of numbers of refugees. And these people are going to need
                    > shelter
                    > > > etc. for quite some time. Donate what you can. I don't think of
                    > it
                    > > as
                    > > > karmic retribution for the murderous policies of the U.S.
                    > government
                    > > > though. I can't really connect those dots.
                    > > >
                    > > > one great reason
                    > >
                    > > Here is a link to someone who did connect the dots:
                    > >
                    > > http://www.pnionline.com/dnblog/attytood/archives/002331.html
                    > >
                    > > I have written about this more extensively at the Nichiren Shu
                    > yahoo
                    > > group, so I will only summarize here: causes have effects, and
                    you
                    > > don't get an effect without a cause. But the bodhisattvas don't
                    > stop
                    > > at assigning blame the way fighting demons would. Rather, they
                    try
                    > to
                    > > discern the causes and conditions, see where responsibility need
                    to
                    > be
                    > > taken, and then act in a way that will relieve suffering and
                    avert
                    > > such bad effects in the future.
                    > >
                    > > Namu Myoho Renge Kyo,
                    > > Ryuei
                    > >
                    > >
                    >
                    *********************************************************************
                    >
                    > Yes,I've heard that too. I definately think we have our priorities
                    > screwed up. Trying to put the blame for what happened on that is
                    > political grandstanding. Which is business as usual. And no one
                    hates
                    > Bush more than me.
                    >
                    > one great reason

                    Actually we can blame Bush and his policies for at least part of the
                    unfolding Katrina disaster happening right now.

                    It is fact that Bush had money, earmarked for the strengthing of the
                    levees in New Orleans, diverted to help pay for his war in Iraq.

                    It is fact that we could have had a swifter response and a better
                    response from the National Guard and the Military if we didn't have
                    most of our resources in Iraq.

                    It is fact that more money could be sent to New Orleans and the whole
                    Gulf Coast if we weren't spending it all in Iraq.

                    There is no excuse for the slow response. Why did it take days
                    instead of hours for help to begin to arrive.

                    These are our fellow American Citizens. Why are we spending so much
                    of our money and resources to help another Country that doesn't even
                    want us there when we need it so much more in our own backyard.

                    And I think I hate Bush more than you do.

                    Bridget

                    **********************************************************************
                  • ryuei2000
                    Hi Mick, Thank you for what I believe is a very articulate summary of the situation. You have said what I have been thinking but unable to fully express
                    Message 9 of 23 , Sep 1, 2005
                      Hi Mick,
                      Thank you for what I believe is a very articulate summary of the
                      situation. You have said what I have been thinking but unable to
                      fully express myself.

                      Namu Myoho Renge Kyo,
                      Ryuei

                      --- In SokaGakkaiInternational@yahoogroups.com, "sunderlandmick"
                      <mickg1@e...> wrote:
                      > --- In SokaGakkaiInternational@yahoogroups.com, "Jim Celer"
                      > <jimceler@y...> wrote:
                      > >>
                      > > Don't know that that's possible in this ideological age. Drop a
                      > team
                      > > of Martian scientists here, who know nothing about Terran
                      society,
                      > > perfectly objective folks. If they conclude humans are causing
                      > > global warming, they will be accused of having a liberal
                      agenda.
                      > If
                      > > they conclude it's a myth, they will be accused of being
                      > apologists
                      > > for big business. IOW, objectively objective as they may be,
                      > they'd
                      > > be taken seriously only by those who already believe their
                      > > conclusion. A sad state of affairs.
                      > > Jim
                      >
                      > I suspect you are right. What is scientific proof anyway ? It's
                      one
                      > thing to convince scientists of something, but in a country where
                      > the President believes that Intelligent Design is a scientific
                      > theory, is it really conceivable that any evidence could be strong
                      > enough to prove the case to all the people who would need to
                      believe
                      > it.
                      >
                      > In America today people regularly accept or reject scientific
                      > propositions based on their political or religious beliefs. People
                      > who have hard line opinions about drugs believe it has been
                      > conclusively proved that marijuana has no beneficial effects for
                      > cancer patients, and that any studies which show the opposite have
                      > been refuted. The folks who are blocking the use of heavy duty
                      > painkillers for people with intractable long term pain aren't
                      > saying, tough, you just have to suffer for the greater good. They
                      > believe that there are always other options which work just as
                      well
                      > or better.
                      >
                      > As far as global warming being driven by human activity, my
                      feeling
                      > is that the case hasn't been proven yet. The problem is that the
                      > case might be unprovable even if it's true. We know that the world
                      > is warming up and climate changes are occuring. We know that
                      carbon
                      > dioxide in the atmosphere traps heat, and that human activity
                      > produces lots of carbon dioxide. We know that some ice fields are
                      > melting and glaciers are shrinking. But we don't know enough about
                      > how the planet works to say whether this is caused by human
                      activity
                      > or natural processes. And we don't know enough to calculate how
                      far
                      > it will go.
                      >
                      > There are computer models but they aren't sophisticated enough to
                      > produce reliable predictions. It's a bit like weather prediction.
                      > Maybe we need a computer a hundred times more powerful in order to
                      > get consistent predictions, or maybe we need one a billion times
                      > more powerful. Maybe global warming really is happening and
                      someone
                      > will prove it next year some time, or maybe human ability to prove
                      > it scientifically is a hundred years away and human society will
                      > have collapsed long before we get there.
                      >
                      > It would be a shame if that happened, and we had the ability to
                      > avert it but didn't because our science wasn't quite advanced
                      enough
                      > to produce incontrovertible proof that it was happening. But still
                      > there are people who are completely convinced that it is
                      happening,
                      > and people who are completely convinced that it is a liberal urban
                      > legend.
                      >
                      > Like you said, people will believe whatever they want. Like
                      > President Ikeda. People look at the same facts and conclude he is
                      > either a charlatan or a saint. Facts and proof are less clear cut
                      > than we sometimes like to think. We all think we are objective and
                      > the people who disagree with us are wearing blinkers.
                      >
                      > Mick
                    • gaydave53
                      Mick said We all think we are objective and the people who disagree with us are wearing blinkers. Thanks...this has been on my mind of late.... As I said in an
                      Message 10 of 23 , Sep 1, 2005
                        Mick said

                        We all think we are objective and the people who disagree with us are
                        wearing blinkers.

                        Thanks...this has been on my mind of late....

                        As I said in an earlier post, a wise person rejoices when proven
                        wrong...

                        But honestly, how often do we actually feel that way...???

                        We are so vested in protecting our own views that we have learned
                        to do "thought-stopping"...that is, we simply turn off any convincing
                        argument that contradicts our current position...

                        This renders dialogue ineffective...at least in the short term...

                        And that is a human calamity...it pervades our views of religion,
                        politics, science, and our fellow man...

                        I can say that I have benefitted immeasureably from being proven
                        wrong over and over again through dialogue...with my leaders,
                        teachers, friends, parents, and quite often on this board...

                        I was impressed, for example, by Robin's objective approach to his
                        research into the DaiGohonzon...his is a search for truth, and while
                        much of his findings are far from proven,the very objective nature of
                        his arguments is a breath of fresh air compared to other attempts at
                        addressing the issue which actually try to force square pegs into
                        round holes...twisting facts to favor a predetermined
                        outcome...misrepresenting opinion as fact, etc...

                        I have called a great deal of my views on this into question as a
                        result of his revelations...or theories...

                        I think I actually hold the Taisekiji plank in greater regard than I
                        did before...in fact iI hold all Gohonzons in greater regard...

                        But I'm getting off topic...I have a suggestion:

                        Let's each ask ourselves: How often do I rejoice when proven wrong?

                        If you find that you are rarely or never proven wrong...be
                        afraid...be very afraid!!

                        David
                      • vorotyntsev
                        ... I m no fan of Bush, but to be fair, the money earmarked for the strengthing of the levees in New Orleans, wouldn t have resulted in any actual
                        Message 11 of 23 , Sep 1, 2005
                          --- In SokaGakkaiInternational@yahoogroups.com, "Bridget" <rainergirl12000@y...>
                          wrote:
                          > --- In SokaGakkaiInternational@yahoogroups.com, "onegreatreason"
                          > <onegreatreason@y...> wrote:
                          > > --- In SokaGakkaiInternational@yahoogroups.com, ryuei2000
                          > > <no_reply@y...> wrote:
                          > > > --- In SokaGakkaiInternational@yahoogroups.com, "onegreatreason"
                          > > > <onegreatreason@y...> wrote:
                          > > > > I think this might be the worst disaster ever in the U.S. in
                          > > terms
                          > > > > of numbers of refugees. And these people are going to need
                          > > shelter
                          > > > > etc. for quite some time. Donate what you can. I don't think of
                          > > it
                          > > > as
                          > > > > karmic retribution for the murderous policies of the U.S.
                          > > government
                          > > > > though. I can't really connect those dots.
                          > > > >
                          > > > > one great reason
                          > > >
                          > > > Here is a link to someone who did connect the dots:
                          > > >
                          > > > http://www.pnionline.com/dnblog/attytood/archives/002331.html
                          > > >
                          > > > I have written about this more extensively at the Nichiren Shu
                          > > yahoo
                          > > > group, so I will only summarize here: causes have effects, and
                          > you
                          > > > don't get an effect without a cause. But the bodhisattvas don't
                          > > stop
                          > > > at assigning blame the way fighting demons would. Rather, they
                          > try
                          > > to
                          > > > discern the causes and conditions, see where responsibility need
                          > to
                          > > be
                          > > > taken, and then act in a way that will relieve suffering and
                          > avert
                          > > > such bad effects in the future.
                          > > >
                          > > > Namu Myoho Renge Kyo,
                          > > > Ryuei
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > >
                          > *********************************************************************
                          > >
                          > > Yes,I've heard that too. I definately think we have our priorities
                          > > screwed up. Trying to put the blame for what happened on that is
                          > > political grandstanding. Which is business as usual. And no one
                          > hates
                          > > Bush more than me.
                          > >
                          > > one great reason
                          >
                          > Actually we can blame Bush and his policies for at least part of the
                          > unfolding Katrina disaster happening right now.
                          >
                          > It is fact that Bush had money, earmarked for the strengthing of the
                          > levees in New Orleans, diverted to help pay for his war in Iraq.

                          I'm no fan of Bush, but to be fair, the money "earmarked for the strengthing of the
                          levees in New Orleans," wouldn't have resulted in any actual construction until 2008.

                          I basically agree with the rest of your post, but New Orleans was a disaster waiting to
                          happen. There is plenty of blame to go around; it's not anyone person's fault.

                          Vanya

                          >
                          > It is fact that we could have had a swifter response and a better
                          > response from the National Guard and the Military if we didn't have
                          > most of our resources in Iraq.
                          >
                          > It is fact that more money could be sent to New Orleans and the whole
                          > Gulf Coast if we weren't spending it all in Iraq.
                          >
                          > There is no excuse for the slow response. Why did it take days
                          > instead of hours for help to begin to arrive.
                          >
                          > These are our fellow American Citizens. Why are we spending so much
                          > of our money and resources to help another Country that doesn't even
                          > want us there when we need it so much more in our own backyard.
                          >
                          > And I think I hate Bush more than you do.
                          >
                          > Bridget
                          >
                          > **********************************************************************
                        • ryuei2000
                          ... I have found that among Nichiren Buddhists, there seems to be a greater tendency to value being right at all costs. Among Zen Buddhists, however, I have
                          Message 12 of 23 , Sep 1, 2005
                            --- In SokaGakkaiInternational@yahoogroups.com, "gaydave53"
                            <tapetodisc@h...> wrote:
                            > But I'm getting off topic...I have a suggestion:
                            >
                            > Let's each ask ourselves: How often do I rejoice when proven wrong?
                            >
                            > If you find that you are rarely or never proven wrong...be
                            > afraid...be very afraid!!

                            I have found that among Nichiren Buddhists, there seems to be a
                            greater tendency to value being right at all costs. Among Zen
                            Buddhists, however, I have discovered a great tendency to value
                            the "don't know" mind. The "don't know" mind is not the same as
                            the "know nothing" mind - which is the mind that doesn't know and
                            doesn't want to know because it challenges cherished assumptions
                            handed down by authorities for the sake of building up the delusion
                            of security. The "don't know" mind is the mind that keeps itself
                            opened and poised to accept new information or changes in any given
                            situation. It is the mind that admits that despite what it thinks it
                            doesn't really know anything for sure. I have one friend who was
                            trained in this way who often sign his posts "That is what I think
                            at this time." I think this Zen posture of open-minded awareness is
                            good and a more mature approach - as long as it doesn't turn into
                            relativism or a timorous uncertainty or a dogmatic opposition to
                            conviction. I think that in this regard Zen Buddhists can learn the
                            value of faith and conviction from Nichiren Buddhists, but many
                            Nichiren Buddhists should learn the "don't know" approach of Zen in
                            order to overcome a presumptious "know nothingism."

                            Namu Myoho Renge Kyo,
                            Ryuei

                            *********************************************************************
                          • gaydave53
                            ryuei2000 wrote: ...I have discovered a great tendency to value the don t know mind. The don t know mind is not the same as the know nothing mind -
                            Message 13 of 23 , Sep 1, 2005
                              ryuei2000 wrote:

                              "...I have discovered a great tendency to value the "don't know"
                              mind. The "don't know" mind is not the same as the "know nothing"
                              mind - which is the mind that doesn't know and doesn't want to know
                              because it challenges cherished assumptions handed down by
                              authorities for the sake of building up the delusion of security.
                              The "don't know" mind is the mind that keeps itself opened and poised
                              to accept new information or changes in any given situation...."

                              Daisaku Ikeda wrote:

                              "... To Socrates, dialogue was a process in which he entrusted his
                              soul to the other person in order to observe it in nakedness, that
                              is, to state his thoughts honestly and frankly in response to
                              questions. Through such straightforward dialogue, he sought to verify
                              the conclusive truth essential to a human being's happiness..."

                              How often do we allow the other person to observe our soul "in
                              nakedness"?

                              This came from an older lecture on the Rissho Ankoku Ron, and It is
                              pertininent to this discussion...

                              Thanks
                              David
                            • onegreatreason
                              ... ... SokaGakkaiInternational@yahoogroups.com, onegreatreason ... in ... think of ... Shu ... and ... don t ... they ... need ...
                              Message 14 of 23 , Sep 1, 2005
                                --- In SokaGakkaiInternational@yahoogroups.com, "vorotyntsev"
                                <vorotyntsev@y...> wrote:
                                > --- In SokaGakkaiInternational@yahoogroups.com, "Bridget"
                                <rainergirl12000@y...>
                                > wrote:
                                > > --- In SokaGakkaiInternational@yahoogroups.com, "onegreatreason"
                                > > <onegreatreason@y...> wrote:
                                > > > --- In SokaGakkaiInternational@yahoogroups.com, ryuei2000
                                > > > <no_reply@y...> wrote:
                                > > > > --- In
                                SokaGakkaiInternational@yahoogroups.com, "onegreatreason"
                                > > > > <onegreatreason@y...> wrote:
                                > > > > > I think this might be the worst disaster ever in the U.S.
                                in
                                > > > terms
                                > > > > > of numbers of refugees. And these people are going to need
                                > > > shelter
                                > > > > > etc. for quite some time. Donate what you can. I don't
                                think of
                                > > > it
                                > > > > as
                                > > > > > karmic retribution for the murderous policies of the U.S.
                                > > > government
                                > > > > > though. I can't really connect those dots.
                                > > > > >
                                > > > > > one great reason
                                > > > >
                                > > > > Here is a link to someone who did connect the dots:
                                > > > >
                                > > > > http://www.pnionline.com/dnblog/attytood/archives/002331.html
                                > > > >
                                > > > > I have written about this more extensively at the Nichiren
                                Shu
                                > > > yahoo
                                > > > > group, so I will only summarize here: causes have effects,
                                and
                                > > you
                                > > > > don't get an effect without a cause. But the bodhisattvas
                                don't
                                > > > stop
                                > > > > at assigning blame the way fighting demons would. Rather,
                                they
                                > > try
                                > > > to
                                > > > > discern the causes and conditions, see where responsibility
                                need
                                > > to
                                > > > be
                                > > > > taken, and then act in a way that will relieve suffering and
                                > > avert
                                > > > > such bad effects in the future.
                                > > > >
                                > > > > Namu Myoho Renge Kyo,
                                > > > > Ryuei
                                > > > >
                                > > > >
                                > > >
                                > >
                                *********************************************************************
                                > > >
                                > > > Yes,I've heard that too. I definately think we have our
                                priorities
                                > > > screwed up. Trying to put the blame for what happened on that
                                is
                                > > > political grandstanding. Which is business as usual. And no one
                                > > hates
                                > > > Bush more than me.
                                > > >
                                > > > one great reason
                                > >
                                > > Actually we can blame Bush and his policies for at least part of
                                the
                                > > unfolding Katrina disaster happening right now.
                                > >
                                > > It is fact that Bush had money, earmarked for the strengthing of
                                the
                                > > levees in New Orleans, diverted to help pay for his war in Iraq.
                                >
                                > I'm no fan of Bush, but to be fair, the money "earmarked for the
                                strengthing of the
                                > levees in New Orleans," wouldn't have resulted in any actual
                                construction until 2008.
                                >
                                > I basically agree with the rest of your post, but New Orleans was a
                                disaster waiting to
                                > happen. There is plenty of blame to go around; it's not anyone
                                person's fault.
                                >
                                > Vanya
                                >
                                > >
                                > > It is fact that we could have had a swifter response and a better
                                > > response from the National Guard and the Military if we didn't
                                have
                                > > most of our resources in Iraq.
                                > >
                                > > It is fact that more money could be sent to New Orleans and the
                                whole
                                > > Gulf Coast if we weren't spending it all in Iraq.
                                > >
                                > > There is no excuse for the slow response. Why did it take days
                                > > instead of hours for help to begin to arrive.
                                > >
                                > > These are our fellow American Citizens. Why are we spending so
                                much
                                > > of our money and resources to help another Country that doesn't
                                even
                                > > want us there when we need it so much more in our own backyard.
                                > >
                                > > And I think I hate Bush more than you do.
                                > >
                                > > Bridget
                                > >
                                > >
                                **********************************************************************

                                Thanks for that, Vanya, I suspected such would be the case. Also how
                                many people voted for those bills, you can't really only hold Bush's
                                feet to the fire. In my mind we need less military spending and more
                                social services, although the way things are going we'll need more
                                military spending due to how badly we've botched our foreign policy.
                                The whole system is corrupt for the democrats to point fingers is a
                                joke, a sad sick joke.

                                one great reason
                              • ryuei2000
                                ... know ... poised ... verify ... is ... Is that lecture online and could you post a link to it, or is it from an offline source? In any case, I do find that
                                Message 15 of 23 , Sep 1, 2005
                                  --- In SokaGakkaiInternational@yahoogroups.com, "gaydave53"
                                  <tapetodisc@h...> wrote:
                                  > ryuei2000 wrote:
                                  >
                                  > "...I have discovered a great tendency to value the "don't know"
                                  > mind. The "don't know" mind is not the same as the "know nothing"
                                  > mind - which is the mind that doesn't know and doesn't want to
                                  know
                                  > because it challenges cherished assumptions handed down by
                                  > authorities for the sake of building up the delusion of security.
                                  > The "don't know" mind is the mind that keeps itself opened and
                                  poised
                                  > to accept new information or changes in any given situation...."
                                  >
                                  > Daisaku Ikeda wrote:
                                  >
                                  > "... To Socrates, dialogue was a process in which he entrusted his
                                  > soul to the other person in order to observe it in nakedness, that
                                  > is, to state his thoughts honestly and frankly in response to
                                  > questions. Through such straightforward dialogue, he sought to
                                  verify
                                  > the conclusive truth essential to a human being's happiness..."
                                  >
                                  > How often do we allow the other person to observe our soul "in
                                  > nakedness"?
                                  >
                                  > This came from an older lecture on the Rissho Ankoku Ron, and It
                                  is
                                  > pertininent to this discussion...
                                  >

                                  Is that lecture online and could you post a link to it, or is it
                                  from an offline source?

                                  In any case, I do find that Daisaku Ikeda says things that I find
                                  quite edifying or thoughtful in his dialogues and commentaries. In
                                  his books I find that Daisaku Ikeda comes across as urbane,
                                  sophisticated, thoughtful, well-read, and willing to entertain
                                  diverse views. The SGI members that I have had edifying contact with
                                  almost invariably have emulated these qualities.

                                  Namu Myoho Renge Kyo,
                                  Ryuei

                                  ******************************************************************
                                • gaydave53
                                  ... http://www.sgi- usa.org/buddhism/library/SokaGakkai/Study/Intermediate/Text2.htm (I never learned the tiny url thing...)
                                  Message 16 of 23 , Sep 1, 2005
                                    ryuei2000 wrote:

                                    > Is that lecture online and could you post a link to it, or is it
                                    > from an offline source?
                                    >
                                    > ******************************************************************

                                    http://www.sgi-
                                    usa.org/buddhism/library/SokaGakkai/Study/Intermediate/Text2.htm

                                    (I never learned the "tiny url" thing...)
                                  • Colin
                                    ... Dave If you are interested, the tiny url website really easy to use. Just go to the website www.tinyURL.com and paste the long URL into the dialogue box
                                    Message 17 of 23 , Sep 1, 2005
                                      --- In SokaGakkaiInternational@yahoogroups.com, "gaydave53"
                                      <tapetodisc@h...> wrote:
                                      > ryuei2000 wrote:
                                      >
                                      > > Is that lecture online and could you post a link to it, or is it
                                      > > from an offline source?
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      ******************************************************************
                                      >
                                      > http://www.sgi-
                                      > usa.org/buddhism/library/SokaGakkai/Study/Intermediate/Text2.htm
                                      >
                                      > (I never learned the "tiny url" thing...)

                                      Dave
                                      If you are interested, the tiny url website really easy to use. Just
                                      go to the website www.tinyURL.com and paste the long URL into the
                                      dialogue box and click on the button "Make TinyURL !" Then copy the
                                      tinyurl and paste in your messase.

                                      here's the link to the lecture as a tiny url.
                                      http://tinyurl.com/d57cl
                                      Colin
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