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Re: Nichiren Daishonin’s Buddhism Established April 28, 1253

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  • carsonlynn2001
    Dear Jussi, Jisei Nagasaka wrote: Nichiren Daishonin states in Letter to the Priests of Seicho-ji: The Zen and Jodo sects also hold extremely perverted
    Message 1 of 11 , Apr 30, 2004
      Dear Jussi,

      Jisei Nagasaka wrote:

      Nichiren Daishonin states in "Letter to the Priests of Seicho-ji:"
      "The Zen and Jodo sects also hold extremely perverted views. I
      knew that if I declared this, it would certainly cost me my life.
      Yet I was determined to requite the favor of Bodhisattva Kokuzo.
      With this in mind, on the twenty-eighth day of the third month in
      the fifth year of Kencho (1253), I pointed out the errors of the
      various sects for the first time to a small audience including Joen-
      bo on the southern side of Jibutsu-do Hall in Dozen-bo's quarters in
      Seicho-ji Temple, located in Tojo Village in Awa Province. For more
      than twenty years since then, I have persisted in my declaration
      without retreating a step." Ref: MWND Vol. 2, p.266


      I looked up MWND (The Major Writings of Nichiren Daishonin), Volume
      2, page 266 (actually the passage quoted begins on page 265) and
      this is what I found:

      The Zen and Pure Land sects also hold extremely perverted views. I
      knew that if I declared this, it would certainly cost me my life.
      Yet I was determined to requite the favor of Bodhisattva Kokuzo.
      With this in mind, on the twenty-eighth day of the fourth month in
      the fifth year of Kencho (1253), I pointed out the errors of the
      various sects for the first time to a small audience including Joen-
      bo13 on the southern side of the image hall in Dozen-bo's14 quarters
      in Seicho-ji temple, located in Tojo Village in Awa Province. For
      more than twenty years since then, I have persisted in my
      declaration without retreating a step. For this reason, I was at
      times driven from my dwelling and at other times exiled. In former
      days Bodhisattva Fukyo was beaten with staves; now Nichiren must
      face the sword.
      It can also be found online at:
      http://www.sgi-
      usa.org/buddhism/library/Nichiren/Gosho/LetterPriestsSeichoji.htm

      Thinking perhaps there was an error I checked our newer The Writings
      of Nichiren Daishonin (WND), and this is what it said:

      The Zen and Pure Land schools also hold extremely perverted views. I
      knew that if I declared this it would certainly cost me my life. Yet
      I was determined to requite the favor of Bodhisattva Space Treasury.
      With this in mind, on the twenty-eighth day of the fourth month in
      the fifth year of Kencho (1253), I pointed out the errors of the
      various schools for the first time to a priest called Joen-bo and to
      some of the people on the southern side of the image hall in Dozen-
      bo's quarters at Seicho-ji temple in Tojo Village of Awa Province.
      During the more than twenty years since then, I have spoken out with
      unremitting zeal, and I have been either driven from my dwelling or
      exiled. In former days Bodhisattva Never Disparaging was beaten with
      staves; now Nichiren must face the sword.

      I think that it is commonsensical that Nichiren Daishonin would have
      chanted Nam-Myoho-Renge-Kyo prior to the Establishment of Nichiren
      Daishonin's Buddhism. I do not know what the significance of March
      28 would be though.

      From the Preface of MWND, Volume Two:

      "In publishing volume two, we are indebted to the editorial staffs
      of Nichiren Shoshu Soka Gakkai of America (NSA) and Yasuji Kirimura,
      chief of the Soka Gakkai Study Department. We especially wish to
      thank Burton Watson, adjunct professor of Columbia University, for
      his invaluable assistance in preparing the translations.

      "This year, 1981, the 700th anniversary of Nichiren Daishonin's
      passing will be commemorated. We are very happy to be publishing the
      present volume in honor of this significant event.

      "Nichiren Shoshu International Center
      Editorial Department"

      Peace and Blessings,
      Carson Lynn

      --- In SokaGakkaiInternational@yahoogroups.com, hokkekofinland
      <no_reply@y...> wrote:
      > Chris; You can see some of Nichiren Shoshu explanation of these
      two
      > dates here:
      >
      > http://www.nstny.org/April%20Oko.htm
      >
      > Best, Jussi.
      >
      > --- In SokaGakkaiInternational@yahoogroups.com, "Christopher H.
      > Holte" <chris_holte@y...> wrote:
      > > What they mean by "inner circle" would have been Nichiren's
      > teacher
      > > Dozen-bo, Gijo bo and the other disciples who were his friends,
      > > mentors, and day to day colleagues. It is possible there is
      > actually
      > > information about this as Seichoji remained a Shingon-Tendai
      > temple
      > > until it was traded to Nichiren Buddhists for a temple they'd
      won
      > in
      > > a debate. Consequently we have wonderful records of his time
      there
      > > some of which have come to us as Gosho and some of us were
      shared
      > > with us in Dr. Stone's book. It may be speculation, but it is
      > > probably true.
      > >
      > > Chris
      > >
      > > --- In SokaGakkaiInternational@yahoogroups.com, "Christopher H.
      > > Holte" <chris_holte@y...> wrote:
      > > > We are talking about a different calendar here from our own
      and
      > 750
      > > > years. The dates aren't going to match exactly. I'm sure that
      > they
      > > > didn't so much make a mistake as were working from a different
      > > > calculation of the calendar. "Kencho" was an era decreed by an
      > > > Emperor. The "fifth day of the fourth month" is not from
      January
      > > 1st
      > > > of the Julian calendar. I'm not even sure they even heard of
      the
      > > > Julian calendar in Japan until at least two centuries later.
      If
      > you
      > > > calculate one way it might match 28th of april, but if you
      > > calculate
      > > > differently you get quite a different date. I'm not even sure
      > they
      > > > were using a solar calendar much less a Julian calendar with
      > > February
      > > > shorted days simply because the Emperor Augustus didn't want
      to
      > > short
      > > > both his and his uncles month from 31. If the year is
      calculated
      > > from
      > > > the Winter Solstice it starts around Christmass. Going by that
      > time
      > > > frame December 28, January 28, February 28, March 28th becomes
      > the
      > > > beginning of the fourth month.
      > > >
      > > > As to the inner circle stuff that is probably Fuji School
      > legend.
      > > But
      > > > if you look back at the stories you can see it's origins in
      > > > Nichirenism's connection to Tendai and the career of Nichijun
      > Sammi
      > > > (second teacher at Omosu while Nikko still alive) who studied
      at
      > > Mt.
      > > > Hiei; and of disciples of Nichiren who claimed their orthodoxy
      > > based
      > > > on Nichiren as Orthodox Buddhist while the official Tendai
      > School
      > > was
      > > > corrupted with Shingon teachings. In those days Mt. Hiei
      served
      > the
      > > > Nichiren schools the way that Rissho University serves them
      now.
      > > >
      > > > > I always believed that NichirenShoshu is like a broken
      watch,
      > but
      > > > > lately it seems a watch which goes even backwards in time:
      > > > > introducing 28 March as the 1st time for chanting, instead
      of
      > the
      > > > > 28th April!. Nichiren specifically mentioned the 28 April as
      > the
      > > > > date of the 1st chanting, and he never mentioned any "inner
      > > circle".
      > > > > This type of baseless data is a clear indication of how
      > reliable
      > > > > NischirenShoshu is. Nichiren left on purpose specific dates
      in
      > > his
      > > > > letters, and he says in 'On Persecutions Befalling the
      > > Buddha': "It
      > > > > was noon on the twenty-eighth day of the fourth month in the
      > > fifth
      > > > > year of Kencho (1253).." MW1/p239 describing the first time
      he
      > > > > declared chanting. Maybe Nichiren forgot to tell us about 28
      > > March,
      > > > > but I wonder how did he tell NichirenShoshu about this date
      > and
      > > > > about his "inner circle"?
      > > > > gachiriki
      > > > >
    • hokkekofinland
      Carson; This sermon explains about the mistakes in reference to the two dates. Burton Watson et al worked from Gosho Zenshu which contains the mistake one
      Message 2 of 11 , May 1, 2004
        Carson; This sermon explains about the mistakes in reference to the
        two dates. Burton Watson et al worked from Gosho Zenshu which
        contains the mistake one presumes. When dealing with ancient
        handwritten calligraphy mistakes happen quite often somewhere along
        the line. Gosho Zenshu is a transliteration from ancient writing to
        more modern kanji and in some cases still old chinese. That is in
        any case how I have understood it.
        I put the link here for Chris who was presuming a different
        explanation as to why Nichiren Shoshu celebrates two dates for the
        declaration.
        Whether you share this belief is not of importance in this case. You
        are free not to believe this and continue celebrating just one date
        if that makes you happy.
        As the old writings are re-examined all sorts of things crop up.
        Only a few years ago it was discovered that the Gosho Gift of Rice
        was not actually one Gosho but fragments of two which had been
        mistakenly pasted together on one scroll. As techiques for examining
        such matters improve with time new discoveries are made.
        Best, Jussi.


        --- In SokaGakkaiInternational@yahoogroups.com, "carsonlynn2001"
        <carsonlynn2001@y...> wrote:
        > Dear Jussi,
        >
        > Jisei Nagasaka wrote:
        >
        > Nichiren Daishonin states in "Letter to the Priests of Seicho-ji:"
        > "The Zen and Jodo sects also hold extremely perverted views. I
        > knew that if I declared this, it would certainly cost me my life.
        > Yet I was determined to requite the favor of Bodhisattva Kokuzo.
        > With this in mind, on the twenty-eighth day of the third month in
        > the fifth year of Kencho (1253), I pointed out the errors of the
        > various sects for the first time to a small audience including
        Joen-
        > bo on the southern side of Jibutsu-do Hall in Dozen-bo's quarters
        in
        > Seicho-ji Temple, located in Tojo Village in Awa Province. For
        more
        > than twenty years since then, I have persisted in my declaration
        > without retreating a step." Ref: MWND Vol. 2, p.266
        >
        >
        > I looked up MWND (The Major Writings of Nichiren Daishonin),
        Volume
        > 2, page 266 (actually the passage quoted begins on page 265) and
        > this is what I found:
        >
        > The Zen and Pure Land sects also hold extremely perverted views. I
        > knew that if I declared this, it would certainly cost me my life.
        > Yet I was determined to requite the favor of Bodhisattva Kokuzo.
        > With this in mind, on the twenty-eighth day of the fourth month in
        > the fifth year of Kencho (1253), I pointed out the errors of the
        > various sects for the first time to a small audience including
        Joen-
        > bo13 on the southern side of the image hall in Dozen-bo's14
        quarters
        > in Seicho-ji temple, located in Tojo Village in Awa Province. For
        > more than twenty years since then, I have persisted in my
        > declaration without retreating a step. For this reason, I was at
        > times driven from my dwelling and at other times exiled. In former
        > days Bodhisattva Fukyo was beaten with staves; now Nichiren must
        > face the sword.
        > It can also be found online at:
        > http://www.sgi-
        > usa.org/buddhism/library/Nichiren/Gosho/LetterPriestsSeichoji.htm
        >
        > Thinking perhaps there was an error I checked our newer The
        Writings
        > of Nichiren Daishonin (WND), and this is what it said:
        >
        > The Zen and Pure Land schools also hold extremely perverted views.
        I
        > knew that if I declared this it would certainly cost me my life.
        Yet
        > I was determined to requite the favor of Bodhisattva Space
        Treasury.
        > With this in mind, on the twenty-eighth day of the fourth month in
        > the fifth year of Kencho (1253), I pointed out the errors of the
        > various schools for the first time to a priest called Joen-bo and
        to
        > some of the people on the southern side of the image hall in Dozen-
        > bo's quarters at Seicho-ji temple in Tojo Village of Awa Province.
        > During the more than twenty years since then, I have spoken out
        with
        > unremitting zeal, and I have been either driven from my dwelling
        or
        > exiled. In former days Bodhisattva Never Disparaging was beaten
        with
        > staves; now Nichiren must face the sword.
        >
        > I think that it is commonsensical that Nichiren Daishonin would
        have
        > chanted Nam-Myoho-Renge-Kyo prior to the Establishment of
        Nichiren
        > Daishonin's Buddhism. I do not know what the significance of March
        > 28 would be though.
        >
        > From the Preface of MWND, Volume Two:
        >
        > "In publishing volume two, we are indebted to the editorial staffs
        > of Nichiren Shoshu Soka Gakkai of America (NSA) and Yasuji
        Kirimura,
        > chief of the Soka Gakkai Study Department. We especially wish to
        > thank Burton Watson, adjunct professor of Columbia University, for
        > his invaluable assistance in preparing the translations.
        >
        > "This year, 1981, the 700th anniversary of Nichiren Daishonin's
        > passing will be commemorated. We are very happy to be publishing
        the
        > present volume in honor of this significant event.
        >
        > "Nichiren Shoshu International Center
        > Editorial Department"
        >
        > Peace and Blessings,
        > Carson Lynn
        >
        > --- In SokaGakkaiInternational@yahoogroups.com, hokkekofinland
        > <no_reply@y...> wrote:
        > > Chris; You can see some of Nichiren Shoshu explanation of these
        > two
        > > dates here:
        > >
        > > http://www.nstny.org/April%20Oko.htm
        > >
        > > Best, Jussi.
        > >
        > > --- In SokaGakkaiInternational@yahoogroups.com, "Christopher H.
        > > Holte" <chris_holte@y...> wrote:
        > > > What they mean by "inner circle" would have been Nichiren's
        > > teacher
        > > > Dozen-bo, Gijo bo and the other disciples who were his
        friends,
        > > > mentors, and day to day colleagues. It is possible there is
        > > actually
        > > > information about this as Seichoji remained a Shingon-Tendai
        > > temple
        > > > until it was traded to Nichiren Buddhists for a temple they'd
        > won
        > > in
        > > > a debate. Consequently we have wonderful records of his time
        > there
        > > > some of which have come to us as Gosho and some of us were
        > shared
        > > > with us in Dr. Stone's book. It may be speculation, but it is
        > > > probably true.
        > > >
        > > > Chris
        > > >
        > > > --- In SokaGakkaiInternational@yahoogroups.com, "Christopher
        H.
        > > > Holte" <chris_holte@y...> wrote:
        > > > > We are talking about a different calendar here from our own
        > and
        > > 750
        > > > > years. The dates aren't going to match exactly. I'm sure
        that
        > > they
        > > > > didn't so much make a mistake as were working from a
        different
        > > > > calculation of the calendar. "Kencho" was an era decreed by
        an
        > > > > Emperor. The "fifth day of the fourth month" is not from
        > January
        > > > 1st
        > > > > of the Julian calendar. I'm not even sure they even heard of
        > the
        > > > > Julian calendar in Japan until at least two centuries later.
        > If
        > > you
        > > > > calculate one way it might match 28th of april, but if you
        > > > calculate
        > > > > differently you get quite a different date. I'm not even
        sure
        > > they
        > > > > were using a solar calendar much less a Julian calendar with
        > > > February
        > > > > shorted days simply because the Emperor Augustus didn't want
        > to
        > > > short
        > > > > both his and his uncles month from 31. If the year is
        > calculated
        > > > from
        > > > > the Winter Solstice it starts around Christmass. Going by
        that
        > > time
        > > > > frame December 28, January 28, February 28, March 28th
        becomes
        > > the
        > > > > beginning of the fourth month.
        > > > >
        > > > > As to the inner circle stuff that is probably Fuji School
        > > legend.
        > > > But
        > > > > if you look back at the stories you can see it's origins in
        > > > > Nichirenism's connection to Tendai and the career of
        Nichijun
        > > Sammi
        > > > > (second teacher at Omosu while Nikko still alive) who
        studied
        > at
        > > > Mt.
        > > > > Hiei; and of disciples of Nichiren who claimed their
        orthodoxy
        > > > based
        > > > > on Nichiren as Orthodox Buddhist while the official Tendai
        > > School
        > > > was
        > > > > corrupted with Shingon teachings. In those days Mt. Hiei
        > served
        > > the
        > > > > Nichiren schools the way that Rissho University serves them
        > now.
        > > > >
        > > > > > I always believed that NichirenShoshu is like a broken
        > watch,
        > > but
        > > > > > lately it seems a watch which goes even backwards in time:
        > > > > > introducing 28 March as the 1st time for chanting, instead
        > of
        > > the
        > > > > > 28th April!. Nichiren specifically mentioned the 28 April
        as
        > > the
        > > > > > date of the 1st chanting, and he never mentioned
        any "inner
        > > > circle".
        > > > > > This type of baseless data is a clear indication of how
        > > reliable
        > > > > > NischirenShoshu is. Nichiren left on purpose specific
        dates
        > in
        > > > his
        > > > > > letters, and he says in 'On Persecutions Befalling the
        > > > Buddha': "It
        > > > > > was noon on the twenty-eighth day of the fourth month in
        the
        > > > fifth
        > > > > > year of Kencho (1253).." MW1/p239 describing the first
        time
        > he
        > > > > > declared chanting. Maybe Nichiren forgot to tell us about
        28
        > > > March,
        > > > > > but I wonder how did he tell NichirenShoshu about this
        date
        > > and
        > > > > > about his "inner circle"?
        > > > > > gachiriki
        > > > > >
      • Jim Celer
        Is this worth arguing about? On the one hand, it isn t logical that the words Nam-myoho-renge-kyo first popped into Nichiren s mind as he was giving the
        Message 3 of 11 , May 1, 2004
          Is this worth arguing about? On the one hand, it isn't logical that
          the words "Nam-myoho-renge-kyo" first popped into Nichiren's mind as
          he was giving the sermon April 28th. He must have at least *thought*
          them prior to that.

          OTOH, according to Nichiren (and thanks Carson for posting the Gosho)
          he first *declared* it on April 28th.

          And that's the point. I believe T'ien T'ai chanted daimoku, but
          never declared it. Like, I'm sure the idea of "independence"
          occurred to people, and was discussed, prior to July 4, 1776. But we
          celebrate THAT date because of the Declaration.

          Unless Nichiren Shoshu has some evidence that Nichiren declared the
          daimoku to the world, and started propagation, on some date other
          than April 28th, why even mention another date? And why didn't it
          share this news, oh, say, 700 years ago?
          Jim
        • closeconnections
          If I recall correctly, Jackie Stone s research clarified that NMRK was a funeral chant long before Nichiren began propogating it. He didn t invent it. He did
          Message 4 of 11 , May 1, 2004
            If I recall correctly, Jackie Stone's research clarified that NMRK
            was a funeral chant long before Nichiren began propogating it. He
            didn't invent it. He did apply it quite differently, and he did
            declare it at some point as is being discussed.

            Colin

            --- "Jim Celer" <jimcub3d@a...> wrote:
            Is this worth arguing about? On the one hand, it isn't logical that
            the words "Nam-myoho-renge-kyo" first popped into Nichiren's mind as
            he was giving the sermon April 28th. He must have at least *thought*
            them prior to that.
          • Christopher H. Holte
            ... In this case it was worth arguing about. First, we learned something about the reliability of transmission. NST acknowledged that mistakes in translation
            Message 5 of 11 , May 1, 2004
              --- In SokaGakkaiInternational@yahoogroups.com, "Jim Celer"
              <jimcub3d@a...> wrote:
              > Is this worth arguing about?

              In this case it was worth arguing about. First, we learned something
              about the reliability of "transmission." NST acknowledged that
              mistakes in translation had been made from time to time, not just
              from the Japanese to English but also from the ancient texts to
              modern texts. And we learned about some of the difficulties of
              document conservation. He told the story of the two pages of
              the "gift of rice" that actually represented different
              transmissions. At first it seems nit-picky, but in this case the
              focus was on facts and once all the facts are in everyone has
              learned something worthwhile.

              I'm happy to learn something new. I found out that my speculations
              were only half the story. Aren't you?

              Chris :-)
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