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Re: [SGI] interesting concept

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  • vegaspatrick2002 <patmatthews@surfbest.n
    Chris, I absolutely agree wqith you regarding trust. In selecting a mentor, trust is so essential that it should not even be a consideration. Mentoring with
    Message 1 of 71 , Jan 31, 2003
      Chris,
      I absolutely agree wqith you regarding trust. In selecting a
      mentor, trust is so essential that it should not even be a
      consideration.

      Mentoring with various members within the orginazition is always the
      most sucessful approach. As you so indicated, it is very difficult
      or even impossible to access President Ikeda directly. Many leaders
      or members we mentor with themseleves may not necessarily have
      direct access themselves, as well. Many times we have to rely on
      acceptable reliable sources.

      I can understand your observations over the years. I myself have
      some very enjoyable memories with members and leaders over the years.

      I have also had the fortune to practice with some very compassionate
      members themselves. Some of them are leaders and some are not. On
      the whole they are exhibit compassion for each other. This has been
      my experience in Chicago, Washington, DC, Phoenix, Arizona, And now
      Las Vegas. Maybe I am fortunate. I can not say. I can say I enjoy
      any opportunities I have to meet with members, chant together, and
      share experiences.

      recently, I have been exploring the internet to see just what is out
      there. I am really impressed with the amount of information
      available at your finger tips. That alone is scary. WIthout some
      sort of guidance, I would imagine it could become overwhelming.
      Maybe even to the point of being counter-productive.

      I know these are difficult times; as Nichiren Daishonin said they
      would be. Anwsers appear to be everywhere. One that suits each of
      us can only be answered from within ourselves.

      Recently I have been reading 'Learning from the Gosho: The Eternal
      Teachings of Nichiren Daishonin', by Daisuka Ikeda, as well as
      various gosho's. These readings along with our dialogue has
      encouraged my practice.

      Pat

      --- In SokaGakkaiInternational@yahoogroups.com, "Christopher H.
      Holte <chris_holte@y...>" <chris_holte@y...> wrote:
      > --- In SokaGakkaiInternational@yahoogroups.com, "vegaspatrick2002
      > <patmatthews@s...>" <patmatthews@s...> wrote:
      > > Andy,
      > > You do not always have direct access to your mentor. That is
      why
      > > there are other medium. I use the phone, pen and paper,
      computer
      > > email and other available medium. The real key ingredient to
      the
      > > master/disciple relationship is TRUST.
      >
      > Now almost 30 years ago I heard about this Buddhism. And I was
      taught
      > this Buddhism by a number of people, all of whom I consider to
      have
      > been mentors at one time or another. The idea that there can only
      > be "one correct mentor" is so strange to me after all these
      > experiences that it hardly seems the same Buddhism I've always
      known
      > and loved. It seems so insular. Like having only one way to draw a
      > picture or one way to write a letter.
      >
      > On the other hand, those mentors I had, all were in turn mentored
      by
      > others, and most of them had Ikeda as their own mentor. They were
      > very fortunate that way. They could call him up for advice and
      expect
      > encouragement. On the other hand, he seems to have left them on
      their
      > own quite a bit. Most of them treasured a few incidents and
      otherwise
      > had little direct contact with him.
      >
      > I would note, that the key to any relationship is trust, and trust
      > requires two parts. You must be able to trust the transmittor and
      the
      > message. The foundation of such trust has to be truth. If it is
      not
      > truth than the result is fanaticism or conflict, or both. That is
      why
      > Buddhism teaches us to follow "dharma." Trust is earned with truth.
      >
      > > All the other components come from that. You have to enter into
      > > a relationship with trust first. If there is no trust, than why
      > > bother to have a master/disciple relationship with the person.
      > > If you do not want to learn and grow, what do you expect to get
      > > from the master/disciple relationship.
      >
      > Now I must admit I've had trouble trusting the "messengers"
      because
      > through-out my practice, the message from SGI has been constantly
      > changing. Mr. Williams used to joke about it. He was like a
      whirlwind
      > who would be constantly taking things off in new directions.
      Usually
      > exciting but often jarringly different. One moment it was a
      culture
      > festival, another a fund raiser, one moment street shakubuku,
      another
      > it would be "friends making." No matter what direction we were
      going
      > some things remained the same. And core to that was the need for
      > dialogue, being good friends to one another, taking initiative,
      and
      > studying and practicing true Buddhism. Since he has departed
      things
      > keep changing in exactly the same manner. The person may be gone,
      but
      > the "karma" remains. Suddenly some of those "rock hard" teachings
      > have vanished. The message keeps changing. That is hardly
      conducive
      > to trust.
      >
      > Nevertheless I still believe and trust my mentors in SGI, on the
      > areas that I know they know something. Even though some of them
      later
      > violated my trust, I've come to trust the law that they were
      > teaching, which is the Buddhism that Nichiren introduced into the
      > world in the 13th century. That is why one can be intensely loyal
      to
      > a teacher even if that teacher is just a human being after all.
      One
      > has to have a seeking mind towards Buddhism. Then even a monster
      can
      > teach you, just as a monster taught Snow Mountain Boy.
      >
      > Unfortunately we have to grow up. When Nichiren was at Seichoji
      > temple he implicitly trusted his teachers. Later he discovered
      that
      > some of what they were teaching was nonsense. He didn't then start
      > talking about how they were the "king devil of the sixth heaven"
      for
      > being so mistaken. He wrote them letters, paid them visits, and
      > continued to express appreciation for what they had done for him.
      In
      > the end he convinced his mentor to embrace at least some of what
      he
      > taught. That is the true way of mentor/disciple. Ultimately it is
      one
      > of mutual trust, mutual growth, and two way interaction. And it is
      > one in which a good mentor must always remember that he is still a
      > human being, and so his disciple may later come to him and tell
      him
      > that some or all of what he was teaching is nonsense. When that
      > happens, his disciple may not be being mean so much as simply
      doing
      > what a good disciple should do, take things to the next level.
      >
      > Chris
    • Christopher H. Holte <chris_holte@yahoo.
      I think there are mentoring relationships. And for some there can be the intense and wonderful relationship that occurs when one meets someone who is
      Message 71 of 71 , Feb 3, 2003
        I think there are "mentoring" relationships. And for some there can
        be the intense and wonderful relationship that occurs when one meets
        someone who is correctly practicing Buddhism and can take one under
        his/her wing and help one to achieve a better life. And if more of us
        would endeaver to help others to practice this Buddhism, maybe we'd
        achieve all those noble and fine goals we always talk about.

        Of course this is a matter of "Zenchishiki"(being good friends) when
        it comes right down to it.

        Chris

        --- In SokaGakkaiInternational@yahoogroups.com, hanlen1@a... wrote:
        > In a message dated 1/31/2003 7:10:10 AM Central Standard Time,
        > patmatthews@s... writes:
        >
        > > You do not always have direct access to yourt mentor. >>
        >
        > Then, in my opinion, there is no mentor-disciple "relationship."
        Perhaps you
        > can call it "inspirer-inspired," or some such, but without
        interaction, i.e.
        > a means of giving and receiving actual communication and two-way
        dialogue,
        > it's not master-disciple, but something else.
        >
        > I can get a lot of inspiration from great thinkers, living and
        dead, but I
        > would not call myself a disciple of such individuals, except in a
        very
        > general sense, and I sure can't claim to have a master-disciple
        > "relationship" with someone that I cannot interact with. And
        mentoring is
        > also something that is a "hands on" activity and not possible "from
        afar."
        > Rent the movie "Finding Forester" for a perfect example, in all
        particulars,
        > of what I am talking about.
        >
        > Cheers!
        >
        > Andy
        >
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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