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emerged as the true Buddha...Re: [SGI] Fireball at Nichiren's Execution

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  • verrytesty
    The example of makaguchi, and the farmers confuses buddhism with a belief in a permanent state of heaven - die this way and you have attained it, forever, die
    Message 1 of 20 , Mar 1, 2013
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      The example of makaguchi, and the farmers confuses buddhism with a
      belief in a permanent state of heaven - 'die this way and you have
      attained it, forever, die another you are hosed'.

      There is no getting in or out of buddhahood, there is never any moment
      of not exerting. Inherent does not mean optional choice to pull buddha
      separately from hell, hunger etc. Only to the unknowing does ichinen
      sanzen appear separately as boxes - "I must escape hell", "I must go to
      and remain in heaven", "this occurred, there are 'only' these causes and
      'only' these conditions" .

      What 'appears' is invariably tied to experience. There are innumerable
      experiences in your life and you choose among them connecting the dots
      to fit into your expectation of this-that-has-appeared. The choice of
      connections is all that determines whether sado is hell or a vacation in
      a cool climate with charming locals. Whether self immolation for just
      any perceived moral cause is not attaining buddhahood in this lifetime
      but feeding yourself to a demon to hear the law is. Whether this is
      hell or heaven and for how long the prison/pleasure-palace that you just
      created is going to remain in appearance.

      Awakened to buddha in this lifetime there is but limitless possibility
      to freely associate. When it is most necessary awakened persons too can
      dwell in delusion - "it absolutely must be protection of gods, only
      nichiren externalized what is by definition both internal and external",
      "determination activated the protective forces in his environment".

      But knowing that 'most necessary' is conditional they do not stick with
      delusion throughout every moment of their existence.

      --- In SokaGakkaiUnofficial@yahoogroups.com, "djgropp" <djgropp@...>
      wrote:
      >
      > <<what can we say when some members do not escape such mishaps?>>
      >
      > 'Depends entirely on how much they are exerting themselves for
      kosen-rufu at the time, at the last moment of their lives.
      >
      > We say 'earthly desires are enlightenment' and 'the sufferings of
      birth and death are Nirvana.' Yet the priests who immolate themselves
      can't be said to have attained Buddhahood in their present form, because
      one cannot attain Buddhahood by annihilating their consciousness.
      >
      > The three farmers, on the other hand, refused to recant their belief
      in the Daishonin, and they certainly experienced Buddhahood, as did Mr.
      Makiguchi, as did Leonard Lee and Les Soderquist in Seattle who died
      while traveling icy mountain roads to spread this teaching; there's even
      a small monument to them at the Seattle Buddhist Center.
      >
      > We have the Buddha nature because all living beings possess the ten
      worlds, but the only ones who can manifest the life-condition of
      Buddhahood, must first exert, from what I've read in the Oral Teachings,
      "a billion lifetimes of painstaking effort in a single moment." And more
      than that, the the Lotus Sutra states, "A good friend is the great cause
      and condition by which one is guided and led, and which enables one to
      see the Buddha and to conceive the desire for supreme perfect
      enlightenment" (WND, p310). And elsewhere we read, "But encountering a
      good friend is the hardest possible thing to do (WND, p. 598).
      >
      > We in the Soka Gakkai, have the eternal example of the three
      presidents, our 'good friends' because they've led us to revere and
      propagate Nichiren's seven-character Lotus Sutra [Nam-myoho-renge-kyo]
      throughout the world. We discovered from them that we were the
      Bodhisattvas of the Earth. And we learned to consider ourselves the
      Daishonin's disciples and believers. Today, Ikeda is the teacher.
      >
      > <<if one has reached buddhahood all the protective deities really
      protect us>>
      >
      > Nichiren says, "Buddhism teaches that, when the Buddha nature
      manifests itself from within, it will receive protection from without.
      This is one of its fundamental principles" (The Three Kinds of Treasure,
      WND, p848) Also, Nichiren quotes the words of the Great Teacher Miao-lo
      of China, stating: "The stronger one's faith, the greater the protection
      of the Buddhist gods.' This means that the protection of the gods
      depends on the strength of one's faith." (General Stone Tiger, WND, 953)
      >
      > People used to bow before the gods and deities, but Nichiren taught
      that they exist to protect practitioners of the Lotus Sutra. "We do not
      beg, beseech or supplicate to any deity or person to gain protection or
      have our prayers answered.
      >
      > Nichiren writes, 'Let the gods forsake me. Let all persecution assail
      me. Still, I will give my life for the sake of the Law.' That
      determination activated the protective forces in his environment
      "enabling him to survive and eternalize his teachings."
      >
      > <<when Nichiren was to be beheaded, he was already a buddha?!>>
      >
      > Of course he was. Shijo Kingo was in tears saying 'these are your last
      moments,' but Nichiren replied, "You don't understand! What greater joy
      could there be. Don't you remember what you promised? I had no sooner
      said this when a brilliant orb as bright as the moon burst forth from
      the direction of Enoshima..." (The Actions of the Votary of the Lotus
      Sutra, WND, 767).
      >
      > In the "Opening of the Eyes," the Daishonin states: "On the twelfth
      day of the ninth month of last year [1271], between the hours of the rat
      and the ox, this person named Nichiren was beheaded. It is his soul that
      has come to this island of Sado" (WND-1, 269).
      >
      > Commenting on this passage, Nichikan, a great restorer of Nichiren
      Buddhism, wrote: "The fundamental significance of this passage is that
      our school's founder Nichiren Daishonin indeed became 'the Buddha of
      limitless joy enlightened since time without beginning' as an ordinary
      being in the stage of hearing the name and words of the truth. Declaring
      his attainment of enlightenment while manifesting in his person this
      inner truth, he emerged as the true Buddha of the Latter Day of the
      Law."
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > --- In SokaGakkaiUnofficial@yahoogroups.com, jodine richards jodiner@
      wrote:
      > >
      > > Hello Angela and Don,Â
      > > Thats interesting..that means the 3 peasants that were beheaded have
      not yet ripened to buddhahood? and that means, when Nichiren was to be
      beheaded, he was already a buddha?! I agree..we have many members who
      were protected in many many ways..Like their houses being on fire yet
      was put out before it reached them.. Or floods that saved all those who
      were practitioners even though their Gohonzxons were not saved..We have
      members who escaped being kidnapped, or their family members kidnapped
      but saved unharmed...were jailed and restored their freedom even without
      bail... and those who had car accidents and rammed yet were unharmed..so
      what can we say when some members do not escape such mishaps?
      > > We have had members overcome even the harshest conditions and worse
      of worse sicknesses...it makes me believe that if one has reached
      buddhahood all the protective deities really protect us akin to when
      fish needs water.., Would this assertion be accurate? That those who
      failed to get themselves protected even when practicing, has not yet
      reached buddhhood, or has most likely committed grave slanders?
      > > My first reaction to this is that, when Nichiren said all people are
      buddhas, then everyday, buddhas are killed everywhere the world over..
      And as buddhahood is inherent, what makes protection strong is when the
      law is actually invoked..
      > > While buddhahood is inherent, and some sleeping, well, I think it
      simply mean that cause and effect is sleepless whether you chant or not,
      but chanting makes it but if you need to live to the full, then you need
      to have it full force through chanting.Â
      > >
      > > --- On Sun, 2/17/13, Angela passaroa25@ wrote:
      > >
      > > From: Angela passaroa25@
      > > Subject: Re: [SGI] Fireball at Nichiren's Execution
      > > To: SokaGakkaiUnofficial@yahoogroups.com
      > > Date: Sunday, February 17, 2013, 11:06 AM
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
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      > > Â
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > By the way, you cannot kill a Buddha. Buddhahood is a life
      condition; not
      > >
      > > a person.
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > Angela
      > >
      > > On Feb 16, 2013 10:02 PM, "Angela" passaroa25@ wrote:
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > > Maybe it is because the sin concept is Christian. We don't have
      sin in
      > >
      > > > Buddhism.
      > >
      > > >
      > >
      > > > In any case, sinning is really behavior that leads to
      unhappiness. For
      > >
      > > > example, gluttony: we are eating ourselves to death. Anger: we
      shoot
      > >
      > > > other people when we are angry. When we act out of anger, the
      consequences
      > >
      > > > for our own life are not always positive.
      > >
      > > >
      > >
      > > > Angela
      > >
      > > > On Feb 16, 2013 6:27 PM, "djgropp" djgropp@ wrote:
      > >
      > > >
      > >
      > > >> **
      > >
      > > >>
      > >
      > > >>
      > >
      > > >> Now that we've had an actual experience of a meteor explosion
      accompanied
      > >
      > > >> by a blindingly brilliant light in Russia, it's easy to see how
      Nichiren
      > >
      > > >> escaped execution.
      > >
      > > >>
      > >
      > > >> BTW, did you know there's no such sin as "killing a Buddha?"
      > >
      > > >>
      > >
      > > >>
      > >
      > > >>
      > >
      > > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      > >
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      > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      > >
      >
    • djgropp
      Nichiren Daishonin states: Bodhisattvas invariably make the four great vows, but without fulfilling their first
      Message 2 of 20 , Mar 2, 2013
      • 0 Attachment
        <<there is never any moment of not exerting>>

        Nichiren Daishonin states: "Bodhisattvas invariably make the four great vows, but without fulfilling their first vow, which is to save all living beings, they cannot fulfill the fourth vow, which is to attain supreme enlightenment" (Gosho Zenshu, p. 522). The Daishonin suggests that our altruistic efforts to pray and work for the happiness of others are crucial to our own happiness.

        <<There is no getting in or out of buddhahood>>

        Volume nine of "The Annotations on 'The Words and Phrases of the Lotus Sutra' states, 'These two types of overbearing arrogance are not without difference in degree between them. One who supposes that ordinary human beings are the same as the Buddha is guilty of shamelessness" (WND-II, 584).

        Not exerting, to me, means not chanting daimoku to the Gohonzon and urging others to do the same. Buddhahood is not an "entitlement" guaranteed for those who never hear it. In fact, according to the Gosho, most people won't "get it."

        I don't find it to be as simple or personal as a "connected dots" theory. Do you know anyone who became happy lazing around, only getting drunk or loaded, and simply being satisfied with minor amusements? Do you believe they will wake from their delusions by themselves?

        Our knowledge of Buddhism and the practice of the "seven character Lotus Sutra" does not come to us in a dream, it's learned behavior, and if, as you say, I simply "connected the dots" to fit my expectation, I'd be more akin to intellectuals like Shariputra who was the last to attain enlightenment, according to the Lotus Sutra.

        Of "cause" and "condition," naturally, cause is primary. We have to make the cause to manifest Buddhahood in this lifetime, regardless of whether it's "inherent" or not, and for that, we need to find "a good friend."

        Nothing I've written even comes close to the idea of a "permanent state of heaven," yet you 'connected the dots' and interpreted it that way.

        Is there some good literary reason why you don't capitalize proper nouns like Mak[i]guchi or Buddhism or Sado? I have hundreds of students, and to not respect their names is woeful inconsideration, a lack of concern for their inherent Buddha nature.

        Do you really believe we're all Buddhas without even trying?




        --- In SokaGakkaiUnofficial@yahoogroups.com, "verrytesty" <verrytesty@...> wrote:
        >
        > The example of makaguchi, and the farmers confuses buddhism with a
        > belief in a permanent state of heaven - 'die this way and you have
        > attained it, forever, die another you are hosed'.
        >
        > There is no getting in or out of buddhahood, there is never any moment
        > of not exerting. Inherent does not mean optional choice to pull buddha
        > separately from hell, hunger etc. Only to the unknowing does ichinen
        > sanzen appear separately as boxes - "I must escape hell", "I must go to
        > and remain in heaven", "this occurred, there are 'only' these causes and
        > 'only' these conditions" .
        >
        > What 'appears' is invariably tied to experience. There are innumerable
        > experiences in your life and you choose among them connecting the dots
        > to fit into your expectation of this-that-has-appeared. The choice of
        > connections is all that determines whether sado is hell or a vacation in
        > a cool climate with charming locals. Whether self immolation for just
        > any perceived moral cause is not attaining buddhahood in this lifetime
        > but feeding yourself to a demon to hear the law is. Whether this is
        > hell or heaven and for how long the prison/pleasure-palace that you just
        > created is going to remain in appearance.
        >
        > Awakened to buddha in this lifetime there is but limitless possibility
        > to freely associate. When it is most necessary awakened persons too can
        > dwell in delusion - "it absolutely must be protection of gods, only
        > nichiren externalized what is by definition both internal and external",
        > "determination activated the protective forces in his environment".
        >
        > But knowing that 'most necessary' is conditional they do not stick with
        > delusion throughout every moment of their existence.
        >
        > --- In SokaGakkaiUnofficial@yahoogroups.com, "djgropp" <djgropp@>
        > wrote:
        > >
        > > <<what can we say when some members do not escape such mishaps?>>
        > >
        > > 'Depends entirely on how much they are exerting themselves for
        > kosen-rufu at the time, at the last moment of their lives.
        > >
        > > We say 'earthly desires are enlightenment' and 'the sufferings of
        > birth and death are Nirvana.' Yet the priests who immolate themselves
        > can't be said to have attained Buddhahood in their present form, because
        > one cannot attain Buddhahood by annihilating their consciousness.
        > >
        > > The three farmers, on the other hand, refused to recant their belief
        > in the Daishonin, and they certainly experienced Buddhahood, as did Mr.
        > Makiguchi, as did Leonard Lee and Les Soderquist in Seattle who died
        > while traveling icy mountain roads to spread this teaching; there's even
        > a small monument to them at the Seattle Buddhist Center.
        > >
        > > We have the Buddha nature because all living beings possess the ten
        > worlds, but the only ones who can manifest the life-condition of
        > Buddhahood, must first exert, from what I've read in the Oral Teachings,
        > "a billion lifetimes of painstaking effort in a single moment." And more
        > than that, the the Lotus Sutra states, "A good friend is the great cause
        > and condition by which one is guided and led, and which enables one to
        > see the Buddha and to conceive the desire for supreme perfect
        > enlightenment" (WND, p310). And elsewhere we read, "But encountering a
        > good friend is the hardest possible thing to do (WND, p. 598).
        > >
        > > We in the Soka Gakkai, have the eternal example of the three
        > presidents, our 'good friends' because they've led us to revere and
        > propagate Nichiren's seven-character Lotus Sutra [Nam-myoho-renge-kyo]
        > throughout the world. We discovered from them that we were the
        > Bodhisattvas of the Earth. And we learned to consider ourselves the
        > Daishonin's disciples and believers. Today, Ikeda is the teacher.
        > >
        > > <<if one has reached buddhahood all the protective deities really
        > protect us>>
        > >
        > > Nichiren says, "Buddhism teaches that, when the Buddha nature
        > manifests itself from within, it will receive protection from without.
        > This is one of its fundamental principles" (The Three Kinds of Treasure,
        > WND, p848) Also, Nichiren quotes the words of the Great Teacher Miao-lo
        > of China, stating: "The stronger one's faith, the greater the protection
        > of the Buddhist gods.' This means that the protection of the gods
        > depends on the strength of one's faith." (General Stone Tiger, WND, 953)
        > >
        > > People used to bow before the gods and deities, but Nichiren taught
        > that they exist to protect practitioners of the Lotus Sutra. "We do not
        > beg, beseech or supplicate to any deity or person to gain protection or
        > have our prayers answered.
        > >
        > > Nichiren writes, 'Let the gods forsake me. Let all persecution assail
        > me. Still, I will give my life for the sake of the Law.' That
        > determination activated the protective forces in his environment
        > "enabling him to survive and eternalize his teachings."
        > >
        > > <<when Nichiren was to be beheaded, he was already a buddha?!>>
        > >
        > > Of course he was. Shijo Kingo was in tears saying 'these are your last
        > moments,' but Nichiren replied, "You don't understand! What greater joy
        > could there be. Don't you remember what you promised? I had no sooner
        > said this when a brilliant orb as bright as the moon burst forth from
        > the direction of Enoshima..." (The Actions of the Votary of the Lotus
        > Sutra, WND, 767).
        > >
        > > In the "Opening of the Eyes," the Daishonin states: "On the twelfth
        > day of the ninth month of last year [1271], between the hours of the rat
        > and the ox, this person named Nichiren was beheaded. It is his soul that
        > has come to this island of Sado" (WND-1, 269).
        > >
        > > Commenting on this passage, Nichikan, a great restorer of Nichiren
        > Buddhism, wrote: "The fundamental significance of this passage is that
        > our school's founder Nichiren Daishonin indeed became 'the Buddha of
        > limitless joy enlightened since time without beginning' as an ordinary
        > being in the stage of hearing the name and words of the truth. Declaring
        > his attainment of enlightenment while manifesting in his person this
        > inner truth, he emerged as the true Buddha of the Latter Day of the
        > Law."
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > --- In SokaGakkaiUnofficial@yahoogroups.com, jodine richards jodiner@
        > wrote:
        > > >
        > > > Hello Angela and Don,Â
        > > > Thats interesting..that means the 3 peasants that were beheaded have
        > not yet ripened to buddhahood? and that means, when Nichiren was to be
        > beheaded, he was already a buddha?! I agree..we have many members who
        > were protected in many many ways..Like their houses being on fire yet
        > was put out before it reached them.. Or floods that saved all those who
        > were practitioners even though their Gohonzxons were not saved..We have
        > members who escaped being kidnapped, or their family members kidnapped
        > but saved unharmed...were jailed and restored their freedom even without
        > bail... and those who had car accidents and rammed yet were unharmed..so
        > what can we say when some members do not escape such mishaps?
        > > > We have had members overcome even the harshest conditions and worse
        > of worse sicknesses...it makes me believe that if one has reached
        > buddhahood all the protective deities really protect us akin to when
        > fish needs water.., Would this assertion be accurate? That those who
        > failed to get themselves protected even when practicing, has not yet
        > reached buddhhood, or has most likely committed grave slanders?
        > > > My first reaction to this is that, when Nichiren said all people are
        > buddhas, then everyday, buddhas are killed everywhere the world over..
        > And as buddhahood is inherent, what makes protection strong is when the
        > law is actually invoked..
        > > > While buddhahood is inherent, and some sleeping, well, I think it
        > simply mean that cause and effect is sleepless whether you chant or not,
        > but chanting makes it but if you need to live to the full, then you need
        > to have it full force through chanting.Â
        > > >
        > > > --- On Sun, 2/17/13, Angela passaroa25@ wrote:
        > > >
        > > > From: Angela passaroa25@
        > > > Subject: Re: [SGI] Fireball at Nichiren's Execution
        > > > To: SokaGakkaiUnofficial@yahoogroups.com
        > > > Date: Sunday, February 17, 2013, 11:06 AM
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > Â
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > By the way, you cannot kill a Buddha. Buddhahood is a life
        > condition; not
        > > >
        > > > a person.
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > Angela
        > > >
        > > > On Feb 16, 2013 10:02 PM, "Angela" passaroa25@ wrote:
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > > Maybe it is because the sin concept is Christian. We don't have
        > sin in
        > > >
        > > > > Buddhism.
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > > In any case, sinning is really behavior that leads to
        > unhappiness. For
        > > >
        > > > > example, gluttony: we are eating ourselves to death. Anger: we
        > shoot
        > > >
        > > > > other people when we are angry. When we act out of anger, the
        > consequences
        > > >
        > > > > for our own life are not always positive.
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > > Angela
        > > >
        > > > > On Feb 16, 2013 6:27 PM, "djgropp" djgropp@ wrote:
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >> **
        > > >
        > > > >>
        > > >
        > > > >>
        > > >
        > > > >> Now that we've had an actual experience of a meteor explosion
        > accompanied
        > > >
        > > > >> by a blindingly brilliant light in Russia, it's easy to see how
        > Nichiren
        > > >
        > > > >> escaped execution.
        > > >
        > > > >>
        > > >
        > > > >> BTW, did you know there's no such sin as "killing a Buddha?"
        > > >
        > > > >>
        > > >
        > > > >>
        > > >
        > > > >>
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
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        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        > > >
        > >
        >
      • Margaret Blaine
        You can chant about multiple goals. Some people have lists. Just set your intention, what you want to have happen, as you chant for each goal. Be specific and
        Message 3 of 20 , Mar 2, 2013
        • 0 Attachment
          You can chant about multiple goals. Some people have lists. Just set
          your intention, what you want to have happen, as you chant for each
          goal. Be specific and always make it a positive goal. I have an article
          on my website, www.margaretblaine.com under Newcomers, Begin Your
          Practice, on setting goals.


          On 2/27/2013 11:22 AM, Robert Partick wrote:
          >
          > All,
          > I have a rather dumb question to pose here...I'm still a novice.
          > To experience the effects of chanting the daimoku we have to chant for
          > a specific goal. Can it be more than one goal? Or does the effect get
          > diluted if there is multiple goals?
          > Apologies again about my rather lame question!
          > Bob
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
          >



          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • verrytesty
          Don I get that for you sgi first, nichiren second and buddhism an afterthought. And that marginally studying by directive selective bits of the gosho and
          Message 4 of 20 , Mar 2, 2013
          • 0 Attachment
            Don I get that for you sgi first, nichiren second and buddhism an
            afterthought. And that marginally studying by directive selective bits
            of the gosho and coupling that with some western religious ideas
            surrounding holy permanence makes buddha/3-prez-trinity seem to you a
            place to 'get to' and 'stay'.

            But human enlightenment did not begin and end 700 years ago in japan
            with a monk named nichiren and channel only through the single thread of
            our organization. Everywhere is the center of the universe so nowhere
            can dharma be lacking.

            << "The Daishonin suggests that our altruistic efforts to pray and work
            for the happiness of others are
            << crucial to our own happiness."

            To be clear there are several versions of the vows. But leaving that
            aside there is no place for a bodhisattva to be other than 'saving
            innumerable (or all depending on which version you want to follow)
            beings'. And that is regardless what else they appear to be doing at
            the same time. Its a bodhicitta thing. You be cannot be alive and not
            do it even if you wanted to be the ultimate anti-bodhisattva.
            Compassion just like anger, or love is spontaneous. Hence everything is
            the cause and the effect. You can only choose to roll with it or against
            it after the fact. You cannot though undo it.

            << "One who supposes that ordinary human beings are the same as the
            Buddha is guilty of
            << shamelessness"

            And one who 'knows' that they are is guilty of being buddha.

            "His transcendental powers" refers to the functions of the three
            bodies, and it refers to provisional Buddhas. A common mortal is an
            entity of the three bodies, and a true Buddha. A Buddha is a function of
            the three bodies, and a provisional Buddha. In that case, though it is
            thought that Shakyamuni Buddha possesses the three virtues of sovereign,
            teacher, and parent for the sake of all of us living beings, that is not
            so. On the contrary, it is common mortals who endow him with the three
            virtues."

            << Not exerting, to me, means not chanting daimoku to the Gohonzon and
            urging others to do the
            << same.

            That may be true 'to you'. But shakyamuni didn't chant daimoku to a
            scroll. And nichiren indicates that he never stops even when not
            appearing to be performing lip moving ritual. So what exertion means to
            you has not yet coalesced apparently with what it means to either the
            samma-sam or your self-designated 'true' buddha.

            << Buddhahood is not an "entitlement" guaranteed for those who never
            hear it. In fact, according to
            << the Gosho, most people won't "get it."

            Actually the gosho and the LS point out that most don't get what they
            already have. The jewel is there even if we think we are vagrants.

            << I don't find it to be as simple or personal as a "connected dots"
            theory.

            That you don't find it simple is because it isn't simple. Mind
            fathoming mind is hard. That you don't find it personal may be because
            you are looking to attain rather than to open.

            Hint - For anything to 'appear' it does so by virtue of a coherent
            context. Context is always invariably based on the observer's past
            experience. Experience is everything in your existence that has ever
            triggered any awareness on any level, real and imagined, up to and
            including what is now (actually just past) appearing.

            Like it or not it is the way that sentience navigates existence. Like
            it or not there is no finding awakened (buddha-hood-knowledge-nature)
            apart from what is already there to begin with.

            << Our knowledge of Buddhism and the practice of the "seven character
            Lotus Sutra"
            << does not come to us in a dream, it's learned behavior, and if, as you
            say, I
            << simply "connected the dots" to fit my expectation, I'd be more akin
            to
            << intellectuals like Shariputra who was the last to attain
            enlightenment, according to the Lotus Sutra.

            Lol, if you did not intellectually connect the dots you would not learn
            anything at all. And the others who attained enlightenment sooner,
            according to the writers of the LS, were what morons?

            << Do you know anyone who became happy lazing around, only getting drunk
            or loaded, and
            << and simply being satisfied with minor amusements
            << Do you believe they will wake from their delusions by themselves?

            Well I've never known anyone who only does any one thing. Nor anyone
            who stays happy after becoming happy. And I guess it depends on your
            definition of 'minor amusements'. But I do know several who are by and
            large perfectly happy for many moments by and large doing just those
            things you mention. Some of whom are altruistic, encouraging practicing
            buddhists in addition to being either trust-fund babies, retired fat
            cats or rock stars. lol

            For them it may end badly or it may end before badly. Who knows?

            "No one saves us but ourselves. No one can and no one may. We ourselves
            must walk the path. The Buddhas merely show the way."

            << Of "cause" and "condition," naturally, cause is primary. We have to
            make the cause to manifest
            << Buddhahood in this lifetime, regardless of whether it's "inherent" or
            not, and for that, we need to
            << find "a good friend."

            << Nothing I've written even comes close to the idea of a "permanent
            state of heaven," yet you
            << 'connected the dots' and interpreted it that way.

            Nothing in your mind perhaps. But the former quote indicates a leaning
            towards cause in some permanently superior position to effect. So the
            latter is precisely the connection I interpret you making.

            So which dots do you choose to ignore in order that your primary cause
            is not shown to be the result of any prior and unconditioned? And can
            you do it without calling upon magic?

            << Is there some good literary reason why you don't capitalize proper
            nouns like Mak[i]guchi or
            << Buddhism or Sado? I have hundreds of students, and to not respect
            their names is woeful
            << inconsideration, a lack of concern for their inherent Buddha nature.

            To call him makin-gushie when I know and the audience knows that I know
            his name is makiguchi would be disrespectful. Most of the characters of
            the lotus are not capitalized. Are only the capitalized ones respected
            by the authors or buddhas?

            > Do you really believe we're all Buddhas without even trying?

            "And when ordinary people in the latter age hear this doctrine, not only
            will they themselves attain buddhahood, but also their fathers and
            mothers will attain buddhahood in their present forms."

            Yes. Do you believe that you exhibit traits of your genealogy by
            'trying to'?




            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • jodine richards
            Good points Sir Don,, Thank you very much.. I need to hear much now as we still don t have volume ll here in ph, I do have a.wonderful good friend though :-)
            Message 5 of 20 , Mar 3, 2013
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              Good points Sir Don,, Thank you very much.. I need to hear much now as we still don't have volume ll here in ph, I do have a.wonderful good friend though :-)
              And great people like you in this thread.. :-)
              ------------------------------
              On Sat, Mar 2, 2013 11:16 PM CST (China) djgropp wrote:

              ><there is never any moment of not exerting>
              >
              >Nichiren Daishonin states: "Bodhisattvas invariably make the four great vows, but without fulfilling their first vow, which is to save all living beings, they cannot fulfill the fourth vow, which is to attain supreme enlightenment" (Gosho Zenshu, p. 522). The Daishonin suggests that our altruistic efforts to pray and work for the happiness of others are crucial to our own happiness.
              >
              ><There is no getting in or out of buddhahood>
              >
              >Volume nine of "The Annotations on 'The Words and Phrases of the Lotus Sutra' states, 'These two types of overbearing arrogance are not without difference in degree between them. One who supposes that ordinary human beings are the same as the Buddha is guilty of shamelessness" (WND-II, 584).
              >
              >Not exerting, to me, means not chanting daimoku to the Gohonzon and urging others to do the same. Buddhahood is not an "entitlement" guaranteed for those who never hear it. In fact, according to the Gosho, most people won't "get it."
              >
              >I don't find it to be as simple or personal as a "connected dots" theory. Do you know anyone who became happy lazing around, only getting drunk or loaded, and simply being satisfied with minor amusements? Do you believe they will wake from their delusions by themselves?
              >
              >Our knowledge of Buddhism and the practice of the "seven character Lotus Sutra" does not come to us in a dream, it's learned behavior, and if, as you say, I simply "connected the dots" to fit my expectation, I'd be more akin to intellectuals like Shariputra who was the last to attain enlightenment, according to the Lotus Sutra.
              >
              >Of "cause" and "condition," naturally, cause is primary. We have to make the cause to manifest Buddhahood in this lifetime, regardless of whether it's "inherent" or not, and for that, we need to find "a good friend."
              >
              >Nothing I've written even comes close to the idea of a "permanent state of heaven," yet you 'connected the dots' and interpreted it that way.
              >
              >Is there some good literary reason why you don't capitalize proper nouns like Mak[i]guchi or Buddhism or Sado? I have hundreds of students, and to not respect their names is woeful inconsideration, a lack of concern for their inherent Buddha nature.
              >
              >Do you really believe we're all Buddhas without even trying?
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >--- In SokaGakkaiUnofficial@yahoogroups.com, "verrytesty" <verrytesty@...> wrote:
              >>
              >> The example of makaguchi, and the farmers confuses buddhism with a
              >> belief in a permanent state of heaven - 'die this way and you have
              >> attained it, forever, die another you are hosed'.
              >>
              >> There is no getting in or out of buddhahood, there is never any moment
              >> of not exerting. Inherent does not mean optional choice to pull buddha
              >> separately from hell, hunger etc. Only to the unknowing does ichinen
              >> sanzen appear separately as boxes - "I must escape hell", "I must go to
              >> and remain in heaven", "this occurred, there are 'only' these causes and
              >> 'only' these conditions" .
              >>
              >> What 'appears' is invariably tied to experience. There are innumerable
              >> experiences in your life and you choose among them connecting the dots
              >> to fit into your expectation of this-that-has-appeared. The choice of
              >> connections is all that determines whether sado is hell or a vacation in
              >> a cool climate with charming locals. Whether self immolation for just
              >> any perceived moral cause is not attaining buddhahood in this lifetime
              >> but feeding yourself to a demon to hear the law is. Whether this is
              >> hell or heaven and for how long the prison/pleasure-palace that you just
              >> created is going to remain in appearance.
              >>
              >> Awakened to buddha in this lifetime there is but limitless possibility
              >> to freely associate. When it is most necessary awakened persons too can
              >> dwell in delusion - "it absolutely must be protection of gods, only
              >> nichiren externalized what is by definition both internal and external",
              >> "determination activated the protective forces in his environment".
              >>
              >> But knowing that 'most necessary' is conditional they do not stick with
              >> delusion throughout every moment of their existence.
              >>
              >> --- In SokaGakkaiUnofficial@yahoogroups.com, "djgropp" <djgropp@>
              >> wrote:
              >> >
              >> > <what can we say when some members do not escape such mishaps?>
              >> >
              >> > 'Depends entirely on how much they are exerting themselves for
              >> kosen-rufu at the time, at the last moment of their lives.
              >> >
              >> > We say 'earthly desires are enlightenment' and 'the sufferings of
              >> birth and death are Nirvana.' Yet the priests who immolate themselves
              >> can't be said to have attained Buddhahood in their present form, because
              >> one cannot attain Buddhahood by annihilating their consciousness.
              >> >
              >> > The three farmers, on the other hand, refused to recant their belief
              >> in the Daishonin, and they certainly experienced Buddhahood, as did Mr.
              >> Makiguchi, as did Leonard Lee and Les Soderquist in Seattle who died
              >> while traveling icy mountain roads to spread this teaching; there's even
              >> a small monument to them at the Seattle Buddhist Center.
              >> >
              >> > We have the Buddha nature because all living beings possess the ten
              >> worlds, but the only ones who can manifest the life-condition of
              >> Buddhahood, must first exert, from what I've read in the Oral Teachings,
              >> "a billion lifetimes of painstaking effort in a single moment." And more
              >> than that, the the Lotus Sutra states, "A good friend is the great cause
              >> and condition by which one is guided and led, and which enables one to
              >> see the Buddha and to conceive the desire for supreme perfect
              >> enlightenment" (WND, p310). And elsewhere we read, "But encountering a
              >> good friend is the hardest possible thing to do (WND, p. 598).
              >> >
              >> > We in the Soka Gakkai, have the eternal example of the three
              >> presidents, our 'good friends' because they've led us to revere and
              >> propagate Nichiren's seven-character Lotus Sutra [Nam-myoho-renge-kyo]
              >> throughout the world. We discovered from them that we were the
              >> Bodhisattvas of the Earth. And we learned to consider ourselves the
              >> Daishonin's disciples and believers. Today, Ikeda is the teacher.
              >> >
              >> > <if one has reached buddhahood all the protective deities really
              >> protect us>
              >> >
              >> > Nichiren says, "Buddhism teaches that, when the Buddha nature
              >> manifests itself from within, it will receive protection from without.
              >> This is one of its fundamental principles" (The Three Kinds of Treasure,
              >> WND, p848) Also, Nichiren quotes the words of the Great Teacher Miao-lo
              >> of China, stating: "The stronger one's faith, the greater the protection
              >> of the Buddhist gods.' This means that the protection of the gods
              >> depends on the strength of one's faith." (General Stone Tiger, WND, 953)
              >> >
              >> > People used to bow before the gods and deities, but Nichiren taught
              >> that they exist to protect practitioners of the Lotus Sutra. "We do not
              >> beg, beseech or supplicate to any deity or person to gain protection or
              >> have our prayers answered.
              >> >
              >> > Nichiren writes, 'Let the gods forsake me. Let all persecution assail
              >> me. Still, I will give my life for the sake of the Law.' That
              >> determination activated the protective forces in his environment
              >> "enabling him to survive and eternalize his teachings."
              >> >
              >> > <when Nichiren was to be beheaded, he was already a buddha?!>
              >> >
              >> > Of course he was. Shijo Kingo was in tears saying 'these are your last
              >> moments,' but Nichiren replied, "You don't understand! What greater joy
              >> could there be. Don't you remember what you promised? I had no sooner
              >> said this when a brilliant orb as bright as the moon burst forth from
              >> the direction of Enoshima..." (The Actions of the Votary of the Lotus
              >> Sutra, WND, 767).
              >> >
              >> > In the "Opening of the Eyes," the Daishonin states: "On the twelfth
              >> day of the ninth month of last year [1271], between the hours of the rat
              >> and the ox, this person named Nichiren was beheaded. It is his soul that
              >> has come to this island of Sado" (WND-1, 269).
              >> >
              >> > Commenting on this passage, Nichikan, a great restorer of Nichiren
              >> Buddhism, wrote: "The fundamental significance of this passage is that
              >> our school's founder Nichiren Daishonin indeed became 'the Buddha of
              >> limitless joy enlightened since time without beginning' as an ordinary
              >> being in the stage of hearing the name and words of the truth. Declaring
              >> his attainment of enlightenment while manifesting in his person this
              >> inner truth, he emerged as the true Buddha of the Latter Day of the
              >> Law."
              >> >
              >> >
              >> >
              >> >
              >> >
              >> >
              >> >
              >> >
              >> >
              >> >
              >> >
              >> >
              >> >
              >> >
              >> >
              >> >
              >> >
              >> > --- In SokaGakkaiUnofficial@yahoogroups.com, jodine richards jodiner@
              >> wrote:
              >> > >
              >> > > Hello Angela and Don,Â
              >> > > Thats interesting..that means the 3 peasants that were beheaded have
              >> not yet ripened to buddhahood? and that means, when Nichiren was to be
              >> beheaded, he was already a buddha?! I agree..we have many members who
              >> were protected in many many ways..Like their houses being on fire yet
              >> was put out before it reached them.. Or floods that saved all those who
              >> were practitioners even though their Gohonzxons were not saved..We have
              >> members who escaped being kidnapped, or their family members kidnapped
              >> but saved unharmed...were jailed and restored their freedom even without
              >> bail... and those who had car accidents and rammed yet were unharmed..so
              >> what can we say when some members do not escape such mishaps?
              >> > > We have had members overcome even the harshest conditions and worse
              >> of worse sicknesses...it makes me believe that if one has reached
              >> buddhahood all the protective deities really protect us akin to when
              >> fish needs water.., Would this assertion be accurate? That those who
              >> failed to get themselves protected even when practicing, has not yet
              >> reached buddhhood, or has most likely committed grave slanders?
              >> > > My first reaction to this is that, when Nichiren said all people are
              >> buddhas, then everyday, buddhas are killed everywhere the world over..
              >> And as buddhahood is inherent, what makes protection strong is when the
              >> law is actually invoked..
              >> > > While buddhahood is inherent, and some sleeping, well, I think it
              >> simply mean that cause and effect is sleepless whether you chant or not,
              >> but chanting makes it but if you need to live to the full, then you need
              >> to have it full force through chanting.Â
              >> > >
              >> > > --- On Sun, 2/17/13, Angela passaroa25@ wrote:
              >> > >
              >> > > From: Angela passaroa25@
              >> > > Subject: Re: [SGI] Fireball at Nichiren's Execution
              >> > > To: SokaGakkaiUnofficial@yahoogroups.com
              >> > > Date: Sunday, February 17, 2013, 11:06 AM
              >> > >
              >> > >
              >> > >
              >> > >
              >> > >
              >> > >
              >> > >
              >> > >
              >> > >
              >> > >
              >> > >
              >> > >
              >> > >
              >> > >
              >> > >
              >> > >
              >> > > Â
              >> > >
              >> > >
              >> > >
              >> > >
              >> > >
              >> > >
              >> > >
              >> > >
              >> > >
              >> > > By the way, you cannot kill a Buddha. Buddhahood is a life
              >> condition; not
              >> > >
              >> > > a person.
              >> > >
              >> > >
              >> > >
              >> > > Angela
              >> > >
              >> > > On Feb 16, 2013 10:02 PM, "Angela" passaroa25@ wrote:
              >> > >
              >> > >
              >> > >
              >> > > > Maybe it is because the sin concept is Christian. We don't have
              >> sin in
              >> > >
              >> > > > Buddhism.
              >> > >
              >> > > >
              >> > >
              >> > > > In any case, sinning is really behavior that leads to
              >> unhappiness. For
              >> > >
              >> > > > example, gluttony: we are eating ourselves to death. Anger: we
              >> shoot
              >> > >
              >> > > > other people when we are angry. When we act out of anger, the
              >> consequences
              >> > >
              >> > > > for our own life are not always positive.
              >> > >
              >> > > >
              >> > >
              >> > > > Angela
              >> > >
              >> > > > On Feb 16, 2013 6:27 PM, "djgropp" djgropp@ wrote:
              >> > >
              >> > > >
              >> > >
              >> > > > **
              >> > >
              >> > > >
              >> > >
              >> > > >
              >> > >
              >> > > > Now that we've had an actual experience of a meteor explosion
              >> accompanied
              >> > >
              >> > > > by a blindingly brilliant light in Russia, it's easy to see how
              >> Nichiren
              >> > >
              >> > > > escaped execution.
              >> > >
              >> > > >
              >> > >
              >> > > > BTW, did you know there's no such sin as "killing a Buddha?"
              >> > >
              >> > > >
              >> > >
              >> > > >
              >> > >
              >> > > >
              >> > >
              >> > > >
              >> > >
              >> > >
              >> > >
              >> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >> > >
              >> > >
              >> > >
              >> > >
              >> > >
              >> > >
              >> > >
              >> > >
              >> > >
              >> > >
              >> > >
              >> > >
              >> > >
              >> > >
              >> > >
              >> > >
              >> > >
              >> > >
              >> > >
              >> > >
              >> > >
              >> > >
              >> > >
              >> > >
              >> > >
              >> > >
              >> > >
              >> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >> > >
              >> >
              >>
              >
              >
            • djgropp
              Concerning prayer, there are conspicuous prayer and conspicuous response, conspicuous prayer and inconspicuous response, inconspicuous prayer and inconspicuous
              Message 6 of 20 , Mar 3, 2013
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                Concerning prayer, there are conspicuous prayer and conspicuous response, conspicuous prayer and inconspicuous response, inconspicuous prayer and inconspicuous response, and inconspicuous prayer and conspicuous response. But the only essential point is that, if you believe in this sutra, all your desires will be fulfilled in both the present and the future (The Writings of Nichiren Daishonin, page 750).

                My kids, all in the thirties, found this article to be very encouraging. Your question isn't dumb at all. Check out this guidance from General Director Danny Nagashima:

                http://sokagakkaisgi.multiply.com/journal/item/1333/How_to_become_MenWomen_of_Unlimited_Self_Esteem





                --- In SokaGakkaiUnofficial@yahoogroups.com, Robert Partick <robertpartick@...> wrote:
                >
                > All,
                > I have a  rather dumb question to pose here...I'm still a novice. To experience the effects of chanting the daimoku we have to chant for a specific goal. Can it be more than one goal? Or does the effect get diluted if there is multiple goals?
                > Apologies again about my rather lame question!
                > Bob
                >
                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >
              • jerrysgi
                Hi Bob, Everyone has a different way of chanting. When I started chanting in 1967 and was told to chant for a goal I was in the military so my basic needs were
                Message 7 of 20 , Mar 3, 2013
                • 0 Attachment
                  Hi Bob,

                  Everyone has a different way of chanting.
                  When I started chanting in 1967 and was told to chant for a goal I was in the military so my basic needs were taken care of so I chanted to live a worthwhile, meaningful life.
                  Now that I'm 72, I look back and am grateful for many benefits I have received even though I didn't specifically chant for them. I have two brothers and a sister and even though they don't practice, our mother lived to be 96 years old and they are all doing well, I firmly believe this is because of the chanting and Buddhist activities I have done over the years.
                  I don't often chant for a specific goal, but by chanting as much as I can and participating in SGI activities I have the confidence that when something happens that could be in my favor or not in my favor that whatever happens will eventually be in my favor.
                  Your needs and wishes are different than anyone elses so youy'll have to achieve your own way of chanting and practicing. As long as you continue you'll find whar works best for you and see what a great practice this is. Best wishes.
                  Jerry

                  --- In SokaGakkaiUnofficial@yahoogroups.com, Robert Partick <robertpartick@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > All,
                  > I have a  rather dumb question to pose here...I'm still a novice. To experience the effects of chanting the daimoku we have to chant for a specific goal. Can it be more than one goal? Or does the effect get diluted if there is multiple goals?
                  > Apologies again about my rather lame question!
                  > Bob
                  >
                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  >
                • djgropp
                  Hello Verrytesty, Am I right that you embrace all of Shakyamuni s teachings, including those prior to the Lotus Sutra? The people during Shakyamuni s time had
                  Message 8 of 20 , Mar 4, 2013
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                    Hello Verrytesty,

                    Am I right that you embrace all of Shakyamuni's teachings, including those prior to the Lotus Sutra?

                    The people during Shakyamuni's time had previously formed "good roots" and were able to attain enlightenment through the earlier teachings because they had a relationship with him.

                    "Now, in the Latter Day of the Law, neither the Lotus Sutra nor the other sutras lead to enlightenment" (The Teaching for the Latter Day, WND, p.903).

                    In the Latter Day we don't rely on the twenty-eight chapter Lotus Sutra. The Buddha made many predictions of Buddhahood in the future for his disciples, but unlike them, the seven character Lotus Sutra preached by Nichiren enables us to attain Buddhahood instantly.

                    Referring to the multitude of living beings present at the assembly of the Lotus Sutra, the Daishonin writes: "All received the command of the Thus Come One [Shakyamuni Buddha], and each one vowed to propagate the Lotus Sutra in the land where [they] resided" (On the Protection of the Nation, WND-II, p.150).

                    Where "they" resided is not here, and not now.

                    The capacities of living beings in the Latter Day of the Law are described as those who in past existences didn't cultivate good roots (see "On Reciting the Daimoku of the Lotus Sutra," WND-2, 230). This means that they do not have a connection to Shakyamuni Buddha and that the seed for Buddhahood has not yet been planted in their lives.

                    Ralph Waldo Emerson says, "The Belief in Christianity that now prevails is the Unbelief in men. They will have Christ for a lord & not for a brother. Christ preaches "the greatness of Man but we hear only the greatness of Christ."

                    Just replace the word Christianity with 'Shakyamuni's Buddhism,' and replace Christ with 'Buddha' and there we have it. Everyone I know who gives the greatest credence to Shakyamuni, invariably ends up belittling the disciples and followers of Nichiren.

                    There are two inscriptions gleaned from Miao-lo's Annotations on "The Words and Phrases of the Lotus Sutra," which Nichiren used to describe the power of the Gohonzon and the Law it embodies. One, placed in the upper right (facing the Gohonzon), reads, "Those who vex or trouble [the practitioners of the Law] will have their heads split into seven pieces." The other, in the upper left, reads, "Those who give alms [to them] will enjoy good fortune surpassing the ten honorable titles."

                    Thus, I believe we will enjoy good fortune surpassing the "ten honorable titles."

                    Would you say the Daishonin didn't really mean it that way?




                    --- In SokaGakkaiUnofficial@yahoogroups.com, "verrytesty" <verrytesty@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > The example of makaguchi, and the farmers confuses buddhism with a
                    > belief in a permanent state of heaven - 'die this way and you have
                    > attained it, forever, die another you are hosed'.
                    >
                    > There is no getting in or out of buddhahood, there is never any moment
                    > of not exerting. Inherent does not mean optional choice to pull buddha
                    > separately from hell, hunger etc. Only to the unknowing does ichinen
                    > sanzen appear separately as boxes - "I must escape hell", "I must go to
                    > and remain in heaven", "this occurred, there are 'only' these causes and
                    > 'only' these conditions" .
                    >
                    > What 'appears' is invariably tied to experience. There are innumerable
                    > experiences in your life and you choose among them connecting the dots
                    > to fit into your expectation of this-that-has-appeared. The choice of
                    > connections is all that determines whether sado is hell or a vacation in
                    > a cool climate with charming locals. Whether self immolation for just
                    > any perceived moral cause is not attaining buddhahood in this lifetime
                    > but feeding yourself to a demon to hear the law is. Whether this is
                    > hell or heaven and for how long the prison/pleasure-palace that you just
                    > created is going to remain in appearance.
                    >
                    > Awakened to buddha in this lifetime there is but limitless possibility
                    > to freely associate. When it is most necessary awakened persons too can
                    > dwell in delusion - "it absolutely must be protection of gods, only
                    > nichiren externalized what is by definition both internal and external",
                    > "determination activated the protective forces in his environment".
                    >
                    > But knowing that 'most necessary' is conditional they do not stick with
                    > delusion throughout every moment of their existence.
                    >
                    > --- In SokaGakkaiUnofficial@yahoogroups.com, "djgropp" <djgropp@>
                    > wrote:
                    > >
                    > > <<what can we say when some members do not escape such mishaps?>>
                    > >
                    > > 'Depends entirely on how much they are exerting themselves for
                    > kosen-rufu at the time, at the last moment of their lives.
                    > >
                    > > We say 'earthly desires are enlightenment' and 'the sufferings of
                    > birth and death are Nirvana.' Yet the priests who immolate themselves
                    > can't be said to have attained Buddhahood in their present form, because
                    > one cannot attain Buddhahood by annihilating their consciousness.
                    > >
                    > > The three farmers, on the other hand, refused to recant their belief
                    > in the Daishonin, and they certainly experienced Buddhahood, as did Mr.
                    > Makiguchi, as did Leonard Lee and Les Soderquist in Seattle who died
                    > while traveling icy mountain roads to spread this teaching; there's even
                    > a small monument to them at the Seattle Buddhist Center.
                    > >
                    > > We have the Buddha nature because all living beings possess the ten
                    > worlds, but the only ones who can manifest the life-condition of
                    > Buddhahood, must first exert, from what I've read in the Oral Teachings,
                    > "a billion lifetimes of painstaking effort in a single moment." And more
                    > than that, the the Lotus Sutra states, "A good friend is the great cause
                    > and condition by which one is guided and led, and which enables one to
                    > see the Buddha and to conceive the desire for supreme perfect
                    > enlightenment" (WND, p310). And elsewhere we read, "But encountering a
                    > good friend is the hardest possible thing to do (WND, p. 598).
                    > >
                    > > We in the Soka Gakkai, have the eternal example of the three
                    > presidents, our 'good friends' because they've led us to revere and
                    > propagate Nichiren's seven-character Lotus Sutra [Nam-myoho-renge-kyo]
                    > throughout the world. We discovered from them that we were the
                    > Bodhisattvas of the Earth. And we learned to consider ourselves the
                    > Daishonin's disciples and believers. Today, Ikeda is the teacher.
                    > >
                    > > <<if one has reached buddhahood all the protective deities really
                    > protect us>>
                    > >
                    > > Nichiren says, "Buddhism teaches that, when the Buddha nature
                    > manifests itself from within, it will receive protection from without.
                    > This is one of its fundamental principles" (The Three Kinds of Treasure,
                    > WND, p848) Also, Nichiren quotes the words of the Great Teacher Miao-lo
                    > of China, stating: "The stronger one's faith, the greater the protection
                    > of the Buddhist gods.' This means that the protection of the gods
                    > depends on the strength of one's faith." (General Stone Tiger, WND, 953)
                    > >
                    > > People used to bow before the gods and deities, but Nichiren taught
                    > that they exist to protect practitioners of the Lotus Sutra. "We do not
                    > beg, beseech or supplicate to any deity or person to gain protection or
                    > have our prayers answered.
                    > >
                    > > Nichiren writes, 'Let the gods forsake me. Let all persecution assail
                    > me. Still, I will give my life for the sake of the Law.' That
                    > determination activated the protective forces in his environment
                    > "enabling him to survive and eternalize his teachings."
                    > >
                    > > <<when Nichiren was to be beheaded, he was already a buddha?!>>
                    > >
                    > > Of course he was. Shijo Kingo was in tears saying 'these are your last
                    > moments,' but Nichiren replied, "You don't understand! What greater joy
                    > could there be. Don't you remember what you promised? I had no sooner
                    > said this when a brilliant orb as bright as the moon burst forth from
                    > the direction of Enoshima..." (The Actions of the Votary of the Lotus
                    > Sutra, WND, 767).
                    > >
                    > > In the "Opening of the Eyes," the Daishonin states: "On the twelfth
                    > day of the ninth month of last year [1271], between the hours of the rat
                    > and the ox, this person named Nichiren was beheaded. It is his soul that
                    > has come to this island of Sado" (WND-1, 269).
                    > >
                    > > Commenting on this passage, Nichikan, a great restorer of Nichiren
                    > Buddhism, wrote: "The fundamental significance of this passage is that
                    > our school's founder Nichiren Daishonin indeed became 'the Buddha of
                    > limitless joy enlightened since time without beginning' as an ordinary
                    > being in the stage of hearing the name and words of the truth. Declaring
                    > his attainment of enlightenment while manifesting in his person this
                    > inner truth, he emerged as the true Buddha of the Latter Day of the
                    > Law."
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > --- In SokaGakkaiUnofficial@yahoogroups.com, jodine richards jodiner@
                    > wrote:
                    > > >
                    > > > Hello Angela and Don,Â
                    > > > Thats interesting..that means the 3 peasants that were beheaded have
                    > not yet ripened to buddhahood? and that means, when Nichiren was to be
                    > beheaded, he was already a buddha?! I agree..we have many members who
                    > were protected in many many ways..Like their houses being on fire yet
                    > was put out before it reached them.. Or floods that saved all those who
                    > were practitioners even though their Gohonzxons were not saved..We have
                    > members who escaped being kidnapped, or their family members kidnapped
                    > but saved unharmed...were jailed and restored their freedom even without
                    > bail... and those who had car accidents and rammed yet were unharmed..so
                    > what can we say when some members do not escape such mishaps?
                    > > > We have had members overcome even the harshest conditions and worse
                    > of worse sicknesses...it makes me believe that if one has reached
                    > buddhahood all the protective deities really protect us akin to when
                    > fish needs water.., Would this assertion be accurate? That those who
                    > failed to get themselves protected even when practicing, has not yet
                    > reached buddhhood, or has most likely committed grave slanders?
                    > > > My first reaction to this is that, when Nichiren said all people are
                    > buddhas, then everyday, buddhas are killed everywhere the world over..
                    > And as buddhahood is inherent, what makes protection strong is when the
                    > law is actually invoked..
                    > > > While buddhahood is inherent, and some sleeping, well, I think it
                    > simply mean that cause and effect is sleepless whether you chant or not,
                    > but chanting makes it but if you need to live to the full, then you need
                    > to have it full force through chanting.Â
                    > > >
                    > > > --- On Sun, 2/17/13, Angela passaroa25@ wrote:
                    > > >
                    > > > From: Angela passaroa25@
                    > > > Subject: Re: [SGI] Fireball at Nichiren's Execution
                    > > > To: SokaGakkaiUnofficial@yahoogroups.com
                    > > > Date: Sunday, February 17, 2013, 11:06 AM
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > > Â
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > > By the way, you cannot kill a Buddha. Buddhahood is a life
                    > condition; not
                    > > >
                    > > > a person.
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > > Angela
                    > > >
                    > > > On Feb 16, 2013 10:02 PM, "Angela" passaroa25@ wrote:
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > > > Maybe it is because the sin concept is Christian. We don't have
                    > sin in
                    > > >
                    > > > > Buddhism.
                    > > >
                    > > > >
                    > > >
                    > > > > In any case, sinning is really behavior that leads to
                    > unhappiness. For
                    > > >
                    > > > > example, gluttony: we are eating ourselves to death. Anger: we
                    > shoot
                    > > >
                    > > > > other people when we are angry. When we act out of anger, the
                    > consequences
                    > > >
                    > > > > for our own life are not always positive.
                    > > >
                    > > > >
                    > > >
                    > > > > Angela
                    > > >
                    > > > > On Feb 16, 2013 6:27 PM, "djgropp" djgropp@ wrote:
                    > > >
                    > > > >
                    > > >
                    > > > >> **
                    > > >
                    > > > >>
                    > > >
                    > > > >>
                    > > >
                    > > > >> Now that we've had an actual experience of a meteor explosion
                    > accompanied
                    > > >
                    > > > >> by a blindingly brilliant light in Russia, it's easy to see how
                    > Nichiren
                    > > >
                    > > > >> escaped execution.
                    > > >
                    > > > >>
                    > > >
                    > > > >> BTW, did you know there's no such sin as "killing a Buddha?"
                    > > >
                    > > > >>
                    > > >
                    > > > >>
                    > > >
                    > > > >>
                    > > >
                    > > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    > > >
                    > >
                    >
                  • verrytesty
                    Hello Don, You do know that there wasn t a physical gathering in the sky not then not ever? And that past existences are as buddhism teaches and simple common
                    Message 9 of 20 , Mar 4, 2013
                    • 0 Attachment
                      Hello Don,

                      You do know that there wasn't a physical gathering in the sky not then
                      not ever? And that past existences are as buddhism teaches and simple
                      common sense shows unknowable? Any statements about their supposed
                      influence on your cultivation in any day latter or otherwise that are
                      emphatically made as statements of absolute fact are meaningless. Or
                      whatever you want them to mean.

                      You don't have to be a great scholar as even cursory study shows that
                      "latter day" has been assumed various different days throughout the
                      history of buddhism. Calendars are grossly misunderstood and religious
                      practitioners of all shades having a particularly rough spell assume
                      that theirs is the prophesied end-o-days. But of course this proves
                      'unknowable' even by the holy of holy's of any religion.

                      Nor do you have to look to far to find the twists and turns that
                      buddhism has taken on its long journey. Its bouts with extremes of
                      pluralism, monism, idealism. Or its rewrites by person's whose
                      perspective was clearly non-buddhist but whose prestige allowed the
                      misdirection to remain unchallenged until 'latter days'.

                      Many who give the greatest credence to Shakyamuni, including Nichiren,
                      have actually greatly studied buddhism. They invariably end up seeming
                      to belittle the disciples and followers who twist the plot to make the
                      story map to belief that you don't have to engage your mind if you just
                      move your lips in front of a box. Or who stand fast that only those who
                      chant, because they chant live longer, happier, less troublesome lives
                      in disregard to the blatantly obvious fact that everyone has great
                      benefit, great loss and varying lifespans regardless what they have do.
                      Clearly batting 50-50 in this department there must be more to the
                      benefits buddhism is talking about than simply happy vs unhappy.

                      These persons are not belittling you. Just calling BS on what your
                      trying to sell.

                      That may vex but it is because holding to the literal but wholly
                      in-actionable metaphors and adverse to understanding the actionable the
                      metaphor means, it is the head of the vexed person that is split in
                      seven pieces. But such a person continues waiting to see their
                      nemesis's head on the ground and relying on flowers in space.

                      "When one understands that all phenomena whatsoever are manifestations
                      of the buddhist law then one does not need 'good friends' to teach and
                      instruct one. One thinks as one thinks, speaks as one speaks, acts as
                      one acts, behaves as one behaves, and all one's activity, walking,
                      lying, sitting, standing, is in harmonious accord with the mind of the
                      buddha" - The Unanimous Declaration by the Buddhas

                      "To cut off all fundamental delusion means to open one's eyes that have
                      from instant to instant been in the sleep of ignorance and return to the
                      awakening of original enlightenment..." - - The Unanimous Declaration by
                      the Buddhas

                      "Though we are no more than ordinary mortals in a state of delusion we
                      have our own minds, our understanding; we can distinguish right from
                      wrong and gauge what is timely." - The Unanimous Declaration by the
                      Buddhas

                      "Evil persons too will be good friends to me" - nichiren

                      Buddhism is embarked on a great journey of gathering correct knowledge.
                      The fortune of any and all sentient being's is directly proportional to
                      acquisition/application of this and nothing more.

                      --- In SokaGakkaiUnofficial@yahoogroups.com, "djgropp" <djgropp@...>
                      wrote:
                      >
                      > Hello Verrytesty,
                      >
                      > Am I right that you embrace all of Shakyamuni's teachings, including
                      those prior to the Lotus Sutra?
                      >
                      > The people during Shakyamuni's time had previously formed "good roots"
                      and were able to attain enlightenment through the earlier teachings
                      because they had a relationship with him.
                      >
                      > "Now, in the Latter Day of the Law, neither the Lotus Sutra nor the
                      other sutras lead to enlightenment" (The Teaching for the Latter Day,
                      WND, p.903).
                      >
                      > In the Latter Day we don't rely on the twenty-eight chapter Lotus
                      Sutra. The Buddha made many predictions of Buddhahood in the future for
                      his disciples, but unlike them, the seven character Lotus Sutra preached
                      by Nichiren enables us to attain Buddhahood instantly.
                      >
                      > Referring to the multitude of living beings present at the assembly of
                      the Lotus Sutra, the Daishonin writes: "All received the command of the
                      Thus Come One [Shakyamuni Buddha], and each one vowed to propagate the
                      Lotus Sutra in the land where [they] resided" (On the Protection of the
                      Nation, WND-II, p.150).
                      >
                      > Where "they" resided is not here, and not now.
                      >
                      > The capacities of living beings in the Latter Day of the Law are
                      described as those who in past existences didn't cultivate good roots
                      (see "On Reciting the Daimoku of the Lotus Sutra," WND-2, 230). This
                      means that they do not have a connection to Shakyamuni Buddha and that
                      the seed for Buddhahood has not yet been planted in their lives.
                      >
                      > Ralph Waldo Emerson says, "The Belief in Christianity that now
                      prevails is the Unbelief in men. They will have Christ for a lord & not
                      for a brother. Christ preaches "the greatness of Man but we hear only
                      the greatness of Christ."
                      >
                      > Just replace the word Christianity with 'Shakyamuni's Buddhism,' and
                      replace Christ with 'Buddha' and there we have it. Everyone I know who
                      gives the greatest credence to Shakyamuni, invariably ends up belittling
                      the disciples and followers of Nichiren.
                      >
                      > There are two inscriptions gleaned from Miao-lo's Annotations on "The
                      Words and Phrases of the Lotus Sutra," which Nichiren used to describe
                      the power of the Gohonzon and the Law it embodies. One, placed in the
                      upper right (facing the Gohonzon), reads, "Those who vex or trouble [the
                      practitioners of the Law] will have their heads split into seven
                      pieces." The other, in the upper left, reads, "Those who give alms [to
                      them] will enjoy good fortune surpassing the ten honorable titles."
                      >
                      > Thus, I believe we will enjoy good fortune surpassing the "ten
                      honorable titles."
                      >
                      > Would you say the Daishonin didn't really mean it that way?
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > --- In SokaGakkaiUnofficial@yahoogroups.com, "verrytesty" verrytesty@
                      wrote:
                      > >
                      > > The example of makaguchi, and the farmers confuses buddhism with a
                      > > belief in a permanent state of heaven - 'die this way and you have
                      > > attained it, forever, die another you are hosed'.
                      > >
                      > > There is no getting in or out of buddhahood, there is never any
                      moment
                      > > of not exerting. Inherent does not mean optional choice to pull
                      buddha
                      > > separately from hell, hunger etc. Only to the unknowing does
                      ichinen
                      > > sanzen appear separately as boxes - "I must escape hell", "I must go
                      to
                      > > and remain in heaven", "this occurred, there are 'only' these causes
                      and
                      > > 'only' these conditions" .
                      > >
                      > > What 'appears' is invariably tied to experience. There are
                      innumerable
                      > > experiences in your life and you choose among them connecting the
                      dots
                      > > to fit into your expectation of this-that-has-appeared. The choice
                      of
                      > > connections is all that determines whether sado is hell or a
                      vacation in
                      > > a cool climate with charming locals. Whether self immolation for
                      just
                      > > any perceived moral cause is not attaining buddhahood in this
                      lifetime
                      > > but feeding yourself to a demon to hear the law is. Whether this is
                      > > hell or heaven and for how long the prison/pleasure-palace that you
                      just
                      > > created is going to remain in appearance.
                      > >
                      > > Awakened to buddha in this lifetime there is but limitless
                      possibility
                      > > to freely associate. When it is most necessary awakened persons too
                      can
                      > > dwell in delusion - "it absolutely must be protection of gods, only
                      > > nichiren externalized what is by definition both internal and
                      external",
                      > > "determination activated the protective forces in his environment".
                      > >
                      > > But knowing that 'most necessary' is conditional they do not stick
                      with
                      > > delusion throughout every moment of their existence.
                      > >
                      > > --- In SokaGakkaiUnofficial@yahoogroups.com, "djgropp" <djgropp@>
                      > > wrote:
                      > > >
                      > > > <<what can we say when some members do not escape such mishaps?>>
                      > > >
                      > > > 'Depends entirely on how much they are exerting themselves for
                      > > kosen-rufu at the time, at the last moment of their lives.
                      > > >
                      > > > We say 'earthly desires are enlightenment' and 'the sufferings of
                      > > birth and death are Nirvana.' Yet the priests who immolate
                      themselves
                      > > can't be said to have attained Buddhahood in their present form,
                      because
                      > > one cannot attain Buddhahood by annihilating their consciousness.
                      > > >
                      > > > The three farmers, on the other hand, refused to recant their
                      belief
                      > > in the Daishonin, and they certainly experienced Buddhahood, as did
                      Mr.
                      > > Makiguchi, as did Leonard Lee and Les Soderquist in Seattle who died
                      > > while traveling icy mountain roads to spread this teaching; there's
                      even
                      > > a small monument to them at the Seattle Buddhist Center.
                      > > >
                      > > > We have the Buddha nature because all living beings possess the
                      ten
                      > > worlds, but the only ones who can manifest the life-condition of
                      > > Buddhahood, must first exert, from what I've read in the Oral
                      Teachings,
                      > > "a billion lifetimes of painstaking effort in a single moment." And
                      more
                      > > than that, the the Lotus Sutra states, "A good friend is the great
                      cause
                      > > and condition by which one is guided and led, and which enables one
                      to
                      > > see the Buddha and to conceive the desire for supreme perfect
                      > > enlightenment" (WND, p310). And elsewhere we read, "But encountering
                      a
                      > > good friend is the hardest possible thing to do (WND, p. 598).
                      > > >
                      > > > We in the Soka Gakkai, have the eternal example of the three
                      > > presidents, our 'good friends' because they've led us to revere and
                      > > propagate Nichiren's seven-character Lotus Sutra
                      [Nam-myoho-renge-kyo]
                      > > throughout the world. We discovered from them that we were the
                      > > Bodhisattvas of the Earth. And we learned to consider ourselves the
                      > > Daishonin's disciples and believers. Today, Ikeda is the teacher.
                      > > >
                      > > > <<if one has reached buddhahood all the protective deities really
                      > > protect us>>
                      > > >
                      > > > Nichiren says, "Buddhism teaches that, when the Buddha nature
                      > > manifests itself from within, it will receive protection from
                      without.
                      > > This is one of its fundamental principles" (The Three Kinds of
                      Treasure,
                      > > WND, p848) Also, Nichiren quotes the words of the Great Teacher
                      Miao-lo
                      > > of China, stating: "The stronger one's faith, the greater the
                      protection
                      > > of the Buddhist gods.' This means that the protection of the gods
                      > > depends on the strength of one's faith." (General Stone Tiger, WND,
                      953)
                      > > >
                      > > > People used to bow before the gods and deities, but Nichiren
                      taught
                      > > that they exist to protect practitioners of the Lotus Sutra. "We do
                      not
                      > > beg, beseech or supplicate to any deity or person to gain protection
                      or
                      > > have our prayers answered.
                      > > >
                      > > > Nichiren writes, 'Let the gods forsake me. Let all persecution
                      assail
                      > > me. Still, I will give my life for the sake of the Law.' That
                      > > determination activated the protective forces in his environment
                      > > "enabling him to survive and eternalize his teachings."
                      > > >
                      > > > <<when Nichiren was to be beheaded, he was already a buddha?!>>
                      > > >
                      > > > Of course he was. Shijo Kingo was in tears saying 'these are your
                      last
                      > > moments,' but Nichiren replied, "You don't understand! What greater
                      joy
                      > > could there be. Don't you remember what you promised? I had no
                      sooner
                      > > said this when a brilliant orb as bright as the moon burst forth
                      from
                      > > the direction of Enoshima..." (The Actions of the Votary of the
                      Lotus
                      > > Sutra, WND, 767).
                      > > >
                      > > > In the "Opening of the Eyes," the Daishonin states: "On the
                      twelfth
                      > > day of the ninth month of last year [1271], between the hours of the
                      rat
                      > > and the ox, this person named Nichiren was beheaded. It is his soul
                      that
                      > > has come to this island of Sado" (WND-1, 269).
                      > > >
                      > > > Commenting on this passage, Nichikan, a great restorer of Nichiren
                      > > Buddhism, wrote: "The fundamental significance of this passage is
                      that
                      > > our school's founder Nichiren Daishonin indeed became 'the Buddha of
                      > > limitless joy enlightened since time without beginning' as an
                      ordinary
                      > > being in the stage of hearing the name and words of the truth.
                      Declaring
                      > > his attainment of enlightenment while manifesting in his person this
                      > > inner truth, he emerged as the true Buddha of the Latter Day of the
                      > > Law."
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > > --- In SokaGakkaiUnofficial@yahoogroups.com, jodine richards
                      jodiner@
                      > > wrote:
                      > > > >
                      > > > > Hello Angela and Don,Â
                      > > > > Thats interesting..that means the 3 peasants that were beheaded
                      have
                      > > not yet ripened to buddhahood? and that means, when Nichiren was to
                      be
                      > > beheaded, he was already a buddha?! I agree..we have many members
                      who
                      > > were protected in many many ways..Like their houses being on fire
                      yet
                      > > was put out before it reached them.. Or floods that saved all those
                      who
                      > > were practitioners even though their Gohonzxons were not saved..We
                      have
                      > > members who escaped being kidnapped, or their family members
                      kidnapped
                      > > but saved unharmed...were jailed and restored their freedom even
                      without
                      > > bail... and those who had car accidents and rammed yet were
                      unharmed..so
                      > > what can we say when some members do not escape such mishaps?
                      > > > > We have had members overcome even the harshest conditions and
                      worse
                      > > of worse sicknesses...it makes me believe that if one has reached
                      > > buddhahood all the protective deities really protect us akin to when
                      > > fish needs water.., Would this assertion be accurate? That those who
                      > > failed to get themselves protected even when practicing, has not yet
                      > > reached buddhhood, or has most likely committed grave slanders?
                      > > > > My first reaction to this is that, when Nichiren said all people
                      are
                      > > buddhas, then everyday, buddhas are killed everywhere the world
                      over..
                      > > And as buddhahood is inherent, what makes protection strong is when
                      the
                      > > law is actually invoked..
                      > > > > While buddhahood is inherent, and some sleeping, well, I think
                      it
                      > > simply mean that cause and effect is sleepless whether you chant or
                      not,
                      > > but chanting makes it but if you need to live to the full, then you
                      need
                      > > to have it full force through chanting.Â
                      > > > >
                      > > > > --- On Sun, 2/17/13, Angela passaroa25@ wrote:
                      > > > >
                      > > > > From: Angela passaroa25@
                      > > > > Subject: Re: [SGI] Fireball at Nichiren's Execution
                      > > > > To: SokaGakkaiUnofficial@yahoogroups.com
                      > > > > Date: Sunday, February 17, 2013, 11:06 AM
                      > > > >
                      > > > >
                      > > > >
                      > > > >
                      > > > >
                      > > > >
                      > > > >
                      > > > >
                      > > > >
                      > > > >
                      > > > >
                      > > > >
                      > > > >
                      > > > >
                      > > > >
                      > > > >
                      > > > > Â
                      > > > >
                      > > > >
                      > > > >
                      > > > >
                      > > > >
                      > > > >
                      > > > >
                      > > > >
                      > > > >
                      > > > > By the way, you cannot kill a Buddha. Buddhahood is a
                      life
                      > > condition; not
                      > > > >
                      > > > > a person.
                      > > > >
                      > > > >
                      > > > >
                      > > > > Angela
                      > > > >
                      > > > > On Feb 16, 2013 10:02 PM, "Angela" passaroa25@ wrote:
                      > > > >
                      > > > >
                      > > > >
                      > > > > > Maybe it is because the sin concept is Christian. We don't
                      have
                      > > sin in
                      > > > >
                      > > > > > Buddhism.
                      > > > >
                      > > > > >
                      > > > >
                      > > > > > In any case, sinning is really behavior that leads to
                      > > unhappiness. For
                      > > > >
                      > > > > > example, gluttony: we are eating ourselves to death. Anger:
                      we
                      > > shoot
                      > > > >
                      > > > > > other people when we are angry. When we act out of anger, the
                      > > consequences
                      > > > >
                      > > > > > for our own life are not always positive.
                      > > > >
                      > > > > >
                      > > > >
                      > > > > > Angela
                      > > > >
                      > > > > > On Feb 16, 2013 6:27 PM, "djgropp" djgropp@ wrote:
                      > > > >
                      > > > > >
                      > > > >
                      > > > > >> **
                      > > > >
                      > > > > >>
                      > > > >
                      > > > > >>
                      > > > >
                      > > > > >> Now that we've had an actual experience of a meteor explosion
                      > > accompanied
                      > > > >
                      > > > > >> by a blindingly brilliant light in Russia, it's easy to see
                      how
                      > > Nichiren
                      > > > >
                      > > > > >> escaped execution.
                      > > > >
                      > > > > >>
                      > > > >
                      > > > > >> BTW, did you know there's no such sin as "killing a Buddha?"
                      > > > >
                      > > > > >>
                      > > > >
                      > > > > >>
                      > > > >
                      > > > > >>
                      > > > >
                      > > > > >
                      > > > >
                      > > > >
                      > > > >
                      > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      > > > >
                      > > > >
                      > > > >
                      > > > >
                      > > > >
                      > > > >
                      > > > >
                      > > > >
                      > > > >
                      > > > >
                      > > > >
                      > > > >
                      > > > >
                      > > > >
                      > > > >
                      > > > >
                      > > > >
                      > > > >
                      > > > >
                      > > > >
                      > > > >
                      > > > >
                      > > > >
                      > > > >
                      > > > >
                      > > > >
                      > > > >
                      > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      > > > >
                      > > >
                      > >
                      >
                    • djgropp
                      I am the Treasure Tower, and if I feel like I m in the sky then that is reality. The Gosho you quoted, The Unanimous Declaration by the Buddhas, states,
                      Message 10 of 20 , Mar 13, 2013
                      • 0 Attachment
                        I am the Treasure Tower, and if I feel like I'm "in the sky" then that is reality. The Gosho you quoted, The Unanimous Declaration by
                        the Buddhas, states, "From this single element of mind spring all the various lands and environmental conditions ... To use the mind to suppose that the Buddhha or the Law or the pure land exist somewhere other than on one's own self and to seek them elsewhere is a delusion."

                        Which version of the Gosho are you quoting from; it isn't from the WND-II, so all the points won't match exactly.

                        There's no such thing as a Buddha who hasn't suffered. Shakyamuni struggled with excruciating pains, just like any human being, exactly because of the three thousand worlds in a momentary state.

                        Aren't you separating the two realities, Shakyamuni and Nichiren, by assuming Shakyamuni is superior Nichiren?

                        Just wondering. You haven't really said anything about your sangha.



                        okaGakkaiUnofficial@yahoogroups.com, "verrytesty" <verrytesty@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > Hello Don,
                        >
                        > You do know that there wasn't a physical gathering in the sky not then
                        > not ever? And that past existences are as buddhism teaches and simple
                        > common sense shows unknowable? Any statements about their supposed
                        > influence on your cultivation in any day latter or otherwise that are
                        > emphatically made as statements of absolute fact are meaningless. Or
                        > whatever you want them to mean.
                        >
                        > You don't have to be a great scholar as even cursory study shows that
                        > "latter day" has been assumed various different days throughout the
                        > history of buddhism. Calendars are grossly misunderstood and religious
                        > practitioners of all shades having a particularly rough spell assume
                        > that theirs is the prophesied end-o-days. But of course this proves
                        > 'unknowable' even by the holy of holy's of any religion.
                        >
                        > Nor do you have to look to far to find the twists and turns that
                        > buddhism has taken on its long journey. Its bouts with extremes of
                        > pluralism, monism, idealism. Or its rewrites by person's whose
                        > perspective was clearly non-buddhist but whose prestige allowed the
                        > misdirection to remain unchallenged until 'latter days'.
                        >
                        > Many who give the greatest credence to Shakyamuni, including Nichiren,
                        > have actually greatly studied buddhism. They invariably end up seeming
                        > to belittle the disciples and followers who twist the plot to make the
                        > story map to belief that you don't have to engage your mind if you just
                        > move your lips in front of a box. Or who stand fast that only those who
                        > chant, because they chant live longer, happier, less troublesome lives
                        > in disregard to the blatantly obvious fact that everyone has great
                        > benefit, great loss and varying lifespans regardless what they have do.
                        > Clearly batting 50-50 in this department there must be more to the
                        > benefits buddhism is talking about than simply happy vs unhappy.
                        >
                        > These persons are not belittling you. Just calling BS on what your
                        > trying to sell.
                        >
                        > That may vex but it is because holding to the literal but wholly
                        > in-actionable metaphors and adverse to understanding the actionable the
                        > metaphor means, it is the head of the vexed person that is split in
                        > seven pieces. But such a person continues waiting to see their
                        > nemesis's head on the ground and relying on flowers in space.
                        >
                        > "When one understands that all phenomena whatsoever are manifestations
                        > of the buddhist law then one does not need 'good friends' to teach and
                        > instruct one. One thinks as one thinks, speaks as one speaks, acts as
                        > one acts, behaves as one behaves, and all one's activity, walking,
                        > lying, sitting, standing, is in harmonious accord with the mind of the
                        > buddha" - The Unanimous Declaration by the Buddhas
                        >
                        > "To cut off all fundamental delusion means to open one's eyes that have
                        > from instant to instant been in the sleep of ignorance and return to the
                        > awakening of original enlightenment..." - - The Unanimous Declaration by
                        > the Buddhas
                        >
                        > "Though we are no more than ordinary mortals in a state of delusion we
                        > have our own minds, our understanding; we can distinguish right from
                        > wrong and gauge what is timely." - The Unanimous Declaration by the
                        > Buddhas
                        >
                        > "Evil persons too will be good friends to me" - nichiren
                        >
                        > Buddhism is embarked on a great journey of gathering correct knowledge.
                        > The fortune of any and all sentient being's is directly proportional to
                        > acquisition/application of this and nothing more.
                        >
                        > --- In SokaGakkaiUnofficial@yahoogroups.com, "djgropp" <djgropp@>
                        > wrote:
                        > >
                        > > Hello Verrytesty,
                        > >
                        > > Am I right that you embrace all of Shakyamuni's teachings, including
                        > those prior to the Lotus Sutra?
                        > >
                        > > The people during Shakyamuni's time had previously formed "good roots"
                        > and were able to attain enlightenment through the earlier teachings
                        > because they had a relationship with him.
                        > >
                        > > "Now, in the Latter Day of the Law, neither the Lotus Sutra nor the
                        > other sutras lead to enlightenment" (The Teaching for the Latter Day,
                        > WND, p.903).
                        > >
                        > > In the Latter Day we don't rely on the twenty-eight chapter Lotus
                        > Sutra. The Buddha made many predictions of Buddhahood in the future for
                        > his disciples, but unlike them, the seven character Lotus Sutra preached
                        > by Nichiren enables us to attain Buddhahood instantly.
                        > >
                        > > Referring to the multitude of living beings present at the assembly of
                        > the Lotus Sutra, the Daishonin writes: "All received the command of the
                        > Thus Come One [Shakyamuni Buddha], and each one vowed to propagate the
                        > Lotus Sutra in the land where [they] resided" (On the Protection of the
                        > Nation, WND-II, p.150).
                        > >
                        > > Where "they" resided is not here, and not now.
                        > >
                        > > The capacities of living beings in the Latter Day of the Law are
                        > described as those who in past existences didn't cultivate good roots
                        > (see "On Reciting the Daimoku of the Lotus Sutra," WND-2, 230). This
                        > means that they do not have a connection to Shakyamuni Buddha and that
                        > the seed for Buddhahood has not yet been planted in their lives.
                        > >
                        > > Ralph Waldo Emerson says, "The Belief in Christianity that now
                        > prevails is the Unbelief in men. They will have Christ for a lord & not
                        > for a brother. Christ preaches "the greatness of Man but we hear only
                        > the greatness of Christ."
                        > >
                        > > Just replace the word Christianity with 'Shakyamuni's Buddhism,' and
                        > replace Christ with 'Buddha' and there we have it. Everyone I know who
                        > gives the greatest credence to Shakyamuni, invariably ends up belittling
                        > the disciples and followers of Nichiren.
                        > >
                        > > There are two inscriptions gleaned from Miao-lo's Annotations on "The
                        > Words and Phrases of the Lotus Sutra," which Nichiren used to describe
                        > the power of the Gohonzon and the Law it embodies. One, placed in the
                        > upper right (facing the Gohonzon), reads, "Those who vex or trouble [the
                        > practitioners of the Law] will have their heads split into seven
                        > pieces." The other, in the upper left, reads, "Those who give alms [to
                        > them] will enjoy good fortune surpassing the ten honorable titles."
                        > >
                        > > Thus, I believe we will enjoy good fortune surpassing the "ten
                        > honorable titles."
                        > >
                        > > Would you say the Daishonin didn't really mean it that way?
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > --- In SokaGakkaiUnofficial@yahoogroups.com, "verrytesty" verrytesty@
                        > wrote:
                        > > >
                        > > > The example of makaguchi, and the farmers confuses buddhism with a
                        > > > belief in a permanent state of heaven - 'die this way and you have
                        > > > attained it, forever, die another you are hosed'.
                        > > >
                        > > > There is no getting in or out of buddhahood, there is never any
                        > moment
                        > > > of not exerting. Inherent does not mean optional choice to pull
                        > buddha
                        > > > separately from hell, hunger etc. Only to the unknowing does
                        > ichinen
                        > > > sanzen appear separately as boxes - "I must escape hell", "I must go
                        > to
                        > > > and remain in heaven", "this occurred, there are 'only' these causes
                        > and
                        > > > 'only' these conditions" .
                        > > >
                        > > > What 'appears' is invariably tied to experience. There are
                        > innumerable
                        > > > experiences in your life and you choose among them connecting the
                        > dots
                        > > > to fit into your expectation of this-that-has-appeared. The choice
                        > of
                        > > > connections is all that determines whether sado is hell or a
                        > vacation in
                        > > > a cool climate with charming locals. Whether self immolation for
                        > just
                        > > > any perceived moral cause is not attaining buddhahood in this
                        > lifetime
                        > > > but feeding yourself to a demon to hear the law is. Whether this is
                        > > > hell or heaven and for how long the prison/pleasure-palace that you
                        > just
                        > > > created is going to remain in appearance.
                        > > >
                        > > > Awakened to buddha in this lifetime there is but limitless
                        > possibility
                        > > > to freely associate. When it is most necessary awakened persons too
                        > can
                        > > > dwell in delusion - "it absolutely must be protection of gods, only
                        > > > nichiren externalized what is by definition both internal and
                        > external",
                        > > > "determination activated the protective forces in his environment".
                        > > >
                        > > > But knowing that 'most necessary' is conditional they do not stick
                        > with
                        > > > delusion throughout every moment of their existence.
                        > > >
                        > > > --- In SokaGakkaiUnofficial@yahoogroups.com, "djgropp" <djgropp@>
                        > > > wrote:
                        > > > >
                        > > > > <<what can we say when some members do not escape such mishaps?>>
                        > > > >
                        > > > > 'Depends entirely on how much they are exerting themselves for
                        > > > kosen-rufu at the time, at the last moment of their lives.
                        > > > >
                        > > > > We say 'earthly desires are enlightenment' and 'the sufferings of
                        > > > birth and death are Nirvana.' Yet the priests who immolate
                        > themselves
                        > > > can't be said to have attained Buddhahood in their present form,
                        > because
                        > > > one cannot attain Buddhahood by annihilating their consciousness.
                        > > > >
                        > > > > The three farmers, on the other hand, refused to recant their
                        > belief
                        > > > in the Daishonin, and they certainly experienced Buddhahood, as did
                        > Mr.
                        > > > Makiguchi, as did Leonard Lee and Les Soderquist in Seattle who died
                        > > > while traveling icy mountain roads to spread this teaching; there's
                        > even
                        > > > a small monument to them at the Seattle Buddhist Center.
                        > > > >
                        > > > > We have the Buddha nature because all living beings possess the
                        > ten
                        > > > worlds, but the only ones who can manifest the life-condition of
                        > > > Buddhahood, must first exert, from what I've read in the Oral
                        > Teachings,
                        > > > "a billion lifetimes of painstaking effort in a single moment." And
                        > more
                        > > > than that, the the Lotus Sutra states, "A good friend is the great
                        > cause
                        > > > and condition by which one is guided and led, and which enables one
                        > to
                        > > > see the Buddha and to conceive the desire for supreme perfect
                        > > > enlightenment" (WND, p310). And elsewhere we read, "But encountering
                        > a
                        > > > good friend is the hardest possible thing to do (WND, p. 598).
                        > > > >
                        > > > > We in the Soka Gakkai, have the eternal example of the three
                        > > > presidents, our 'good friends' because they've led us to revere and
                        > > > propagate Nichiren's seven-character Lotus Sutra
                        > [Nam-myoho-renge-kyo]
                        > > > throughout the world. We discovered from them that we were the
                        > > > Bodhisattvas of the Earth. And we learned to consider ourselves the
                        > > > Daishonin's disciples and believers. Today, Ikeda is the teacher.
                        > > > >
                        > > > > <<if one has reached buddhahood all the protective deities really
                        > > > protect us>>
                        > > > >
                        > > > > Nichiren says, "Buddhism teaches that, when the Buddha nature
                        > > > manifests itself from within, it will receive protection from
                        > without.
                        > > > This is one of its fundamental principles" (The Three Kinds of
                        > Treasure,
                        > > > WND, p848) Also, Nichiren quotes the words of the Great Teacher
                        > Miao-lo
                        > > > of China, stating: "The stronger one's faith, the greater the
                        > protection
                        > > > of the Buddhist gods.' This means that the protection of the gods
                        > > > depends on the strength of one's faith." (General Stone Tiger, WND,
                        > 953)
                        > > > >
                        > > > > People used to bow before the gods and deities, but Nichiren
                        > taught
                        > > > that they exist to protect practitioners of the Lotus Sutra. "We do
                        > not
                        > > > beg, beseech or supplicate to any deity or person to gain protection
                        > or
                        > > > have our prayers answered.
                        > > > >
                        > > > > Nichiren writes, 'Let the gods forsake me. Let all persecution
                        > assail
                        > > > me. Still, I will give my life for the sake of the Law.' That
                        > > > determination activated the protective forces in his environment
                        > > > "enabling him to survive and eternalize his teachings."
                        > > > >
                        > > > > <<when Nichiren was to be beheaded, he was already a buddha?!>>
                        > > > >
                        > > > > Of course he was. Shijo Kingo was in tears saying 'these are your
                        > last
                        > > > moments,' but Nichiren replied, "You don't understand! What greater
                        > joy
                        > > > could there be. Don't you remember what you promised? I had no
                        > sooner
                        > > > said this when a brilliant orb as bright as the moon burst forth
                        > from
                        > > > the direction of Enoshima..." (The Actions of the Votary of the
                        > Lotus
                        > > > Sutra, WND, 767).
                        > > > >
                        > > > > In the "Opening of the Eyes," the Daishonin states: "On the
                        > twelfth
                        > > > day of the ninth month of last year [1271], between the hours of the
                        > rat
                        > > > and the ox, this person named Nichiren was beheaded. It is his soul
                        > that
                        > > > has come to this island of Sado" (WND-1, 269).
                        > > > >
                        > > > > Commenting on this passage, Nichikan, a great restorer of Nichiren
                        > > > Buddhism, wrote: "The fundamental significance of this passage is
                        > that
                        > > > our school's founder Nichiren Daishonin indeed became 'the Buddha of
                        > > > limitless joy enlightened since time without beginning' as an
                        > ordinary
                        > > > being in the stage of hearing the name and words of the truth.
                        > Declaring
                        > > > his attainment of enlightenment while manifesting in his person this
                        > > > inner truth, he emerged as the true Buddha of the Latter Day of the
                        > > > Law."
                        > > > >
                        > > > >
                        > > > >
                        > > > >
                        > > > >
                        > > > >
                        > > > >
                        > > > >
                        > > > >
                        > > > >
                        > > > >
                        > > > >
                        > > > >
                        > > > >
                        > > > >
                        > > > >
                        > > > >
                        > > > > --- In SokaGakkaiUnofficial@yahoogroups.com, jodine richards
                        > jodiner@
                        > > > wrote:
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > > Hello Angela and Don,Â
                        > > > > > Thats interesting..that means the 3 peasants that were beheaded
                        > have
                        > > > not yet ripened to buddhahood? and that means, when Nichiren was to
                        > be
                        > > > beheaded, he was already a buddha?! I agree..we have many members
                        > who
                        > > > were protected in many many ways..Like their houses being on fire
                        > yet
                        > > > was put out before it reached them.. Or floods that saved all those
                        > who
                        > > > were practitioners even though their Gohonzxons were not saved..We
                        > have
                        > > > members who escaped being kidnapped, or their family members
                        > kidnapped
                        > > > but saved unharmed...were jailed and restored their freedom even
                        > without
                        > > > bail... and those who had car accidents and rammed yet were
                        > unharmed..so
                        > > > what can we say when some members do not escape such mishaps?
                        > > > > > We have had members overcome even the harshest conditions and
                        > worse
                        > > > of worse sicknesses...it makes me believe that if one has reached
                        > > > buddhahood all the protective deities really protect us akin to when
                        > > > fish needs water.., Would this assertion be accurate? That those who
                        > > > failed to get themselves protected even when practicing, has not yet
                        > > > reached buddhhood, or has most likely committed grave slanders?
                        > > > > > My first reaction to this is that, when Nichiren said all people
                        > are
                        > > > buddhas, then everyday, buddhas are killed everywhere the world
                        > over..
                        > > > And as buddhahood is inherent, what makes protection strong is when
                        > the
                        > > > law is actually invoked..
                        > > > > > While buddhahood is inherent, and some sleeping, well, I think
                        > it
                        > > > simply mean that cause and effect is sleepless whether you chant or
                        > not,
                        > > > but chanting makes it but if you need to live to the full, then you
                        > need
                        > > > to have it full force through chanting.Â
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > > --- On Sun, 2/17/13, Angela passaroa25@ wrote:
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > > From: Angela passaroa25@
                        > > > > > Subject: Re: [SGI] Fireball at Nichiren's Execution
                        > > > > > To: SokaGakkaiUnofficial@yahoogroups.com
                        > > > > > Date: Sunday, February 17, 2013, 11:06 AM
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > > Â
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > > By the way, you cannot kill a Buddha. Buddhahood is a
                        > life
                        > > > condition; not
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > > a person.
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > > Angela
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > > On Feb 16, 2013 10:02 PM, "Angela" passaroa25@ wrote:
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > > > Maybe it is because the sin concept is Christian. We don't
                        > have
                        > > > sin in
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > > > Buddhism.
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > > >
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > > > In any case, sinning is really behavior that leads to
                        > > > unhappiness. For
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > > > example, gluttony: we are eating ourselves to death. Anger:
                        > we
                        > > > shoot
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > > > other people when we are angry. When we act out of anger, the
                        > > > consequences
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > > > for our own life are not always positive.
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > > >
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > > > Angela
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > > > On Feb 16, 2013 6:27 PM, "djgropp" djgropp@ wrote:
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > > >
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > > >> **
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > > >>
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > > >>
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > > >> Now that we've had an actual experience of a meteor explosion
                        > > > accompanied
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > > >> by a blindingly brilliant light in Russia, it's easy to see
                        > how
                        > > > Nichiren
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > > >> escaped execution.
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > > >>
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > > >> BTW, did you know there's no such sin as "killing a Buddha?"
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > > >>
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > > >>
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > > >>
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > > >
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        > > > > >
                        > > > >
                        > > >
                        > >
                        >
                      • verrytesty
                        Message 11 of 20 , Mar 13, 2013
                        • 0 Attachment
                          << Which version of the Gosho are you quoting from; it isn't from the
                          WND-II, so all the points
                          << won't match exactly.

                          Huh? The quotes are directly from the WND-II. And the particular sutra
                          clearly describes inherent buddha. Where did you get your copy? lol

                          << There's no such thing as a Buddha who hasn't suffered. Shakyamuni
                          struggled with
                          << excruciating pains, just like any human being, exactly because of the
                          three thousand worlds in a
                          << momentary state.

                          There is no such thing as a buddha who hasn't suffered for no other
                          reason then because there isn't any actualization of buddha (self
                          awakening to the true reality) apart from and specifically because of
                          human beings. Or the exclusively human ability to extract lessons
                          learned through trial and error in one thing and coupling that with
                          intention and compassion work towards lessening error broadly for
                          everyone in all things.

                          << I am the Treasure Tower, and if I feel like I'm "in the sky" then
                          that is reality.

                          Your feelings are real. What you project based upon them is real. How
                          the environment responds to projection of real or imaginings is real.

                          But to be clear there here isn't any case being made that delusion is
                          not wholly included in reality. The distinction that buddhism makes is
                          that the common person just goes with their feelings (or more broadly
                          singular aspects ofkhandha) as if the thoughts engendered thereby are
                          flawless.

                          Ignoring that feelings of being above the law (human or heavenly) or a
                          treasure tower or floating in the air or of anything else are not really
                          the same thing as actualization of reward. (Feeling lucky or unlucky
                          has no bearing on whether you roll craps yet many bet the farm on the
                          feeling. Regardless how you felt going in a win is a win and you feel
                          better afterwards if only for a moment.)

                          Buddhas have problems and associated suffering. But keeping things in
                          proper perspective they do not make decisions about what to do next
                          without taking into account the whole (3-truths in all things).

                          They take on the suffering of the others by being willing to take the
                          slings and arrows from the others when teaching the truth about
                          self-caused downfall associated with blindly following proclivities in
                          disregard of the 3-truths.

                          << Aren't you separating the two realities, Shakyamuni and Nichiren, by
                          assuming Shakyamuni is
                          << superior Nichiren?

                          First I make no such assumption of superiority of the persons because
                          there are countless and irrefutable ways to show persons as
                          superior/inferior/equal to one another. As for superiority of teachings
                          there are both actionable and in-actionable, greatly beneficial and
                          practically useless bits in what is put forth as the actual words of
                          both of these men.

                          Assuming one way or the other is a waste of time. Single-minded
                          dedication to acquisition of correct life knowledge is the exemplary
                          example of both men. Study-apply-loop. You will know what buddhas know
                          in the only lifetime that you are guaranteed.

                          << Just wondering. You haven't really said anything about your sangha.

                          39 year sgi member if that's what you are wondering about.

                          --- In SokaGakkaiUnofficial@yahoogroups.com, "djgropp" <djgropp@...>
                          wrote:
                          >
                          > I am the Treasure Tower, and if I feel like I'm "in the sky" then that
                          is reality. The Gosho you quoted, The Unanimous Declaration by
                          > the Buddhas, states, "From this single element of mind spring all the
                          various lands and environmental conditions ... To use the mind to
                          suppose that the Buddhha or the Law or the pure land exist somewhere
                          other than on one's own self and to seek them elsewhere is a delusion."
                          >
                          > Which version of the Gosho are you quoting from; it isn't from the
                          WND-II, so all the points won't match exactly.
                          >
                          > There's no such thing as a Buddha who hasn't suffered. Shakyamuni
                          struggled with excruciating pains, just like any human being, exactly
                          because of the three thousand worlds in a momentary state.
                          >
                          > Aren't you separating the two realities, Shakyamuni and Nichiren, by
                          assuming Shakyamuni is superior Nichiren?
                          >
                          > Just wondering. You haven't really said anything about your sangha.
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > okaGakkaiUnofficial@yahoogroups.com, "verrytesty" verrytesty@ wrote:
                          > >
                          > > Hello Don,
                          > >
                          > > You do know that there wasn't a physical gathering in the sky not
                          then
                          > > not ever? And that past existences are as buddhism teaches and
                          simple
                          > > common sense shows unknowable? Any statements about their supposed
                          > > influence on your cultivation in any day latter or otherwise that
                          are
                          > > emphatically made as statements of absolute fact are meaningless.
                          Or
                          > > whatever you want them to mean.
                          > >
                          > > You don't have to be a great scholar as even cursory study shows
                          that
                          > > "latter day" has been assumed various different days throughout the
                          > > history of buddhism. Calendars are grossly misunderstood and
                          religious
                          > > practitioners of all shades having a particularly rough spell assume
                          > > that theirs is the prophesied end-o-days. But of course this proves
                          > > 'unknowable' even by the holy of holy's of any religion.
                          > >
                          > > Nor do you have to look to far to find the twists and turns that
                          > > buddhism has taken on its long journey. Its bouts with extremes of
                          > > pluralism, monism, idealism. Or its rewrites by person's whose
                          > > perspective was clearly non-buddhist but whose prestige allowed the
                          > > misdirection to remain unchallenged until 'latter days'.
                          > >
                          > > Many who give the greatest credence to Shakyamuni, including
                          Nichiren,
                          > > have actually greatly studied buddhism. They invariably end up
                          seeming
                          > > to belittle the disciples and followers who twist the plot to make
                          the
                          > > story map to belief that you don't have to engage your mind if you
                          just
                          > > move your lips in front of a box. Or who stand fast that only those
                          who
                          > > chant, because they chant live longer, happier, less troublesome
                          lives
                          > > in disregard to the blatantly obvious fact that everyone has great
                          > > benefit, great loss and varying lifespans regardless what they have
                          do.
                          > > Clearly batting 50-50 in this department there must be more to the
                          > > benefits buddhism is talking about than simply happy vs unhappy.
                          > >
                          > > These persons are not belittling you. Just calling BS on what your
                          > > trying to sell.
                          > >
                          > > That may vex but it is because holding to the literal but wholly
                          > > in-actionable metaphors and adverse to understanding the actionable
                          the
                          > > metaphor means, it is the head of the vexed person that is split in
                          > > seven pieces. But such a person continues waiting to see their
                          > > nemesis's head on the ground and relying on flowers in space.
                          > >
                          > > "When one understands that all phenomena whatsoever are
                          manifestations
                          > > of the buddhist law then one does not need 'good friends' to teach
                          and
                          > > instruct one. One thinks as one thinks, speaks as one speaks, acts
                          as
                          > > one acts, behaves as one behaves, and all one's activity, walking,
                          > > lying, sitting, standing, is in harmonious accord with the mind of
                          the
                          > > buddha" - The Unanimous Declaration by the Buddhas
                          > >
                          > > "To cut off all fundamental delusion means to open one's eyes that
                          have
                          > > from instant to instant been in the sleep of ignorance and return to
                          the
                          > > awakening of original enlightenment..." - - The Unanimous
                          Declaration by
                          > > the Buddhas
                          > >
                          > > "Though we are no more than ordinary mortals in a state of delusion
                          we
                          > > have our own minds, our understanding; we can distinguish right from
                          > > wrong and gauge what is timely." - The Unanimous Declaration by the
                          > > Buddhas
                          > >
                          > > "Evil persons too will be good friends to me" - nichiren
                          > >
                          > > Buddhism is embarked on a great journey of gathering correct
                          knowledge.
                          > > The fortune of any and all sentient being's is directly proportional
                          to
                          > > acquisition/application of this and nothing more.
                          > >
                          > > --- In SokaGakkaiUnofficial@yahoogroups.com, "djgropp" <djgropp@>
                          > > wrote:
                          > > >
                          > > > Hello Verrytesty,
                          > > >
                          > > > Am I right that you embrace all of Shakyamuni's teachings,
                          including
                          > > those prior to the Lotus Sutra?
                          > > >
                          > > > The people during Shakyamuni's time had previously formed "good
                          roots"
                          > > and were able to attain enlightenment through the earlier teachings
                          > > because they had a relationship with him.
                          > > >
                          > > > "Now, in the Latter Day of the Law, neither the Lotus Sutra nor
                          the
                          > > other sutras lead to enlightenment" (The Teaching for the Latter
                          Day,
                          > > WND, p.903).
                          > > >
                          > > > In the Latter Day we don't rely on the twenty-eight chapter Lotus
                          > > Sutra. The Buddha made many predictions of Buddhahood in the future
                          for
                          > > his disciples, but unlike them, the seven character Lotus Sutra
                          preached
                          > > by Nichiren enables us to attain Buddhahood instantly.
                          > > >
                          > > > Referring to the multitude of living beings present at the
                          assembly of
                          > > the Lotus Sutra, the Daishonin writes: "All received the command of
                          the
                          > > Thus Come One [Shakyamuni Buddha], and each one vowed to propagate
                          the
                          > > Lotus Sutra in the land where [they] resided" (On the Protection of
                          the
                          > > Nation, WND-II, p.150).
                          > > >
                          > > > Where "they" resided is not here, and not now.
                          > > >
                          > > > The capacities of living beings in the Latter Day of the Law are
                          > > described as those who in past existences didn't cultivate good
                          roots
                          > > (see "On Reciting the Daimoku of the Lotus Sutra," WND-2, 230). This
                          > > means that they do not have a connection to Shakyamuni Buddha and
                          that
                          > > the seed for Buddhahood has not yet been planted in their lives.
                          > > >
                          > > > Ralph Waldo Emerson says, "The Belief in Christianity that now
                          > > prevails is the Unbelief in men. They will have Christ for a lord &
                          not
                          > > for a brother. Christ preaches "the greatness of Man but we hear
                          only
                          > > the greatness of Christ."
                          > > >
                          > > > Just replace the word Christianity with 'Shakyamuni's Buddhism,'
                          and
                          > > replace Christ with 'Buddha' and there we have it. Everyone I know
                          who
                          > > gives the greatest credence to Shakyamuni, invariably ends up
                          belittling
                          > > the disciples and followers of Nichiren.
                          > > >
                          > > > There are two inscriptions gleaned from Miao-lo's Annotations on
                          "The
                          > > Words and Phrases of the Lotus Sutra," which Nichiren used to
                          describe
                          > > the power of the Gohonzon and the Law it embodies. One, placed in
                          the
                          > > upper right (facing the Gohonzon), reads, "Those who vex or trouble
                          [the
                          > > practitioners of the Law] will have their heads split into seven
                          > > pieces." The other, in the upper left, reads, "Those who give alms
                          [to
                          > > them] will enjoy good fortune surpassing the ten honorable titles."
                          > > >
                          > > > Thus, I believe we will enjoy good fortune surpassing the "ten
                          > > honorable titles."
                          > > >
                          > > > Would you say the Daishonin didn't really mean it that way?
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > > --- In SokaGakkaiUnofficial@yahoogroups.com, "verrytesty"
                          verrytesty@
                          > > wrote:
                          > > > >
                          > > > > The example of makaguchi, and the farmers confuses buddhism with
                          a
                          > > > > belief in a permanent state of heaven - 'die this way and you
                          have
                          > > > > attained it, forever, die another you are hosed'.
                          > > > >
                          > > > > There is no getting in or out of buddhahood, there is never any
                          > > moment
                          > > > > of not exerting. Inherent does not mean optional choice to pull
                          > > buddha
                          > > > > separately from hell, hunger etc. Only to the unknowing does
                          > > ichinen
                          > > > > sanzen appear separately as boxes - "I must escape hell", "I
                          must go
                          > > to
                          > > > > and remain in heaven", "this occurred, there are 'only' these
                          causes
                          > > and
                          > > > > 'only' these conditions" .
                          > > > >
                          > > > > What 'appears' is invariably tied to experience. There are
                          > > innumerable
                          > > > > experiences in your life and you choose among them connecting
                          the
                          > > dots
                          > > > > to fit into your expectation of this-that-has-appeared. The
                          choice
                          > > of
                          > > > > connections is all that determines whether sado is hell or a
                          > > vacation in
                          > > > > a cool climate with charming locals. Whether self immolation
                          for
                          > > just
                          > > > > any perceived moral cause is not attaining buddhahood in this
                          > > lifetime
                          > > > > but feeding yourself to a demon to hear the law is. Whether
                          this is
                          > > > > hell or heaven and for how long the prison/pleasure-palace that
                          you
                          > > just
                          > > > > created is going to remain in appearance.
                          > > > >
                          > > > > Awakened to buddha in this lifetime there is but limitless
                          > > possibility
                          > > > > to freely associate. When it is most necessary awakened persons
                          too
                          > > can
                          > > > > dwell in delusion - "it absolutely must be protection of gods,
                          only
                          > > > > nichiren externalized what is by definition both internal and
                          > > external",
                          > > > > "determination activated the protective forces in his
                          environment".
                          > > > >
                          > > > > But knowing that 'most necessary' is conditional they do not
                          stick
                          > > with
                          > > > > delusion throughout every moment of their existence.
                          > > > >
                          > > > > --- In SokaGakkaiUnofficial@yahoogroups.com, "djgropp"
                          <djgropp@>
                          > > > > wrote:
                          > > > > >
                          > > > > > <<what can we say when some members do not escape such
                          mishaps?>>
                          > > > > >
                          > > > > > 'Depends entirely on how much they are exerting themselves for
                          > > > > kosen-rufu at the time, at the last moment of their lives.
                          > > > > >
                          > > > > > We say 'earthly desires are enlightenment' and 'the sufferings
                          of
                          > > > > birth and death are Nirvana.' Yet the priests who immolate
                          > > themselves
                          > > > > can't be said to have attained Buddhahood in their present form,
                          > > because
                          > > > > one cannot attain Buddhahood by annihilating their
                          consciousness.
                          > > > > >
                          > > > > > The three farmers, on the other hand, refused to recant their
                          > > belief
                          > > > > in the Daishonin, and they certainly experienced Buddhahood, as
                          did
                          > > Mr.
                          > > > > Makiguchi, as did Leonard Lee and Les Soderquist in Seattle who
                          died
                          > > > > while traveling icy mountain roads to spread this teaching;
                          there's
                          > > even
                          > > > > a small monument to them at the Seattle Buddhist Center.
                          > > > > >
                          > > > > > We have the Buddha nature because all living beings possess
                          the
                          > > ten
                          > > > > worlds, but the only ones who can manifest the life-condition of
                          > > > > Buddhahood, must first exert, from what I've read in the Oral
                          > > Teachings,
                          > > > > "a billion lifetimes of painstaking effort in a single moment."
                          And
                          > > more
                          > > > > than that, the the Lotus Sutra states, "A good friend is the
                          great
                          > > cause
                          > > > > and condition by which one is guided and led, and which enables
                          one
                          > > to
                          > > > > see the Buddha and to conceive the desire for supreme perfect
                          > > > > enlightenment" (WND, p310). And elsewhere we read, "But
                          encountering
                          > > a
                          > > > > good friend is the hardest possible thing to do (WND, p. 598).
                          > > > > >
                          > > > > > We in the Soka Gakkai, have the eternal example of the three
                          > > > > presidents, our 'good friends' because they've led us to revere
                          and
                          > > > > propagate Nichiren's seven-character Lotus Sutra
                          > > [Nam-myoho-renge-kyo]
                          > > > > throughout the world. We discovered from them that we were the
                          > > > > Bodhisattvas of the Earth. And we learned to consider ourselves
                          the
                          > > > > Daishonin's disciples and believers. Today, Ikeda is the
                          teacher.
                          > > > > >
                          > > > > > <<if one has reached buddhahood all the protective deities
                          really
                          > > > > protect us>>
                          > > > > >
                          > > > > > Nichiren says, "Buddhism teaches that, when the Buddha nature
                          > > > > manifests itself from within, it will receive protection from
                          > > without.
                          > > > > This is one of its fundamental principles" (The Three Kinds of
                          > > Treasure,
                          > > > > WND, p848) Also, Nichiren quotes the words of the Great Teacher
                          > > Miao-lo
                          > > > > of China, stating: "The stronger one's faith, the greater the
                          > > protection
                          > > > > of the Buddhist gods.' This means that the protection of the
                          gods
                          > > > > depends on the strength of one's faith." (General Stone Tiger,
                          WND,
                          > > 953)
                          > > > > >
                          > > > > > People used to bow before the gods and deities, but Nichiren
                          > > taught
                          > > > > that they exist to protect practitioners of the Lotus Sutra. "We
                          do
                          > > not
                          > > > > beg, beseech or supplicate to any deity or person to gain
                          protection
                          > > or
                          > > > > have our prayers answered.
                          > > > > >
                          > > > > > Nichiren writes, 'Let the gods forsake me. Let all persecution
                          > > assail
                          > > > > me. Still, I will give my life for the sake of the Law.' That
                          > > > > determination activated the protective forces in his environment
                          > > > > "enabling him to survive and eternalize his teachings."
                          > > > > >
                          > > > > > <<when Nichiren was to be beheaded, he was already a
                          buddha?!>>
                          > > > > >
                          > > > > > Of course he was. Shijo Kingo was in tears saying 'these are
                          your
                          > > last
                          > > > > moments,' but Nichiren replied, "You don't understand! What
                          greater
                          > > joy
                          > > > > could there be. Don't you remember what you promised? I had no
                          > > sooner
                          > > > > said this when a brilliant orb as bright as the moon burst forth
                          > > from
                          > > > > the direction of Enoshima..." (The Actions of the Votary of the
                          > > Lotus
                          > > > > Sutra, WND, 767).
                          > > > > >
                          > > > > > In the "Opening of the Eyes," the Daishonin states: "On the
                          > > twelfth
                          > > > > day of the ninth month of last year [1271], between the hours of
                          the
                          > > rat
                          > > > > and the ox, this person named Nichiren was beheaded. It is his
                          soul
                          > > that
                          > > > > has come to this island of Sado" (WND-1, 269).
                          > > > > >
                          > > > > > Commenting on this passage, Nichikan, a great restorer of
                          Nichiren
                          > > > > Buddhism, wrote: "The fundamental significance of this passage
                          is
                          > > that
                          > > > > our school's founder Nichiren Daishonin indeed became 'the
                          Buddha of
                          > > > > limitless joy enlightened since time without beginning' as an
                          > > ordinary
                          > > > > being in the stage of hearing the name and words of the truth.
                          > > Declaring
                          > > > > his attainment of enlightenment while manifesting in his person
                          this
                          > > > > inner truth, he emerged as the true Buddha of the Latter Day of
                          the
                          > > > > Law."
                          > > > > >
                          > > > > >
                          > > > > >
                          > > > > >
                          > > > > >
                          > > > > >
                          > > > > >
                          > > > > >
                          > > > > >
                          > > > > >
                          > > > > >
                          > > > > >
                          > > > > >
                          > > > > >
                          > > > > >
                          > > > > >
                          > > > > >
                          > > > > > --- In SokaGakkaiUnofficial@yahoogroups.com, jodine richards
                          > > jodiner@
                          > > > > wrote:
                          > > > > > >
                          > > > > > > Hello Angela and Don,Â
                          > > > > > > Thats interesting..that means the 3 peasants that were
                          beheaded
                          > > have
                          > > > > not yet ripened to buddhahood? and that means, when Nichiren was
                          to
                          > > be
                          > > > > beheaded, he was already a buddha?! I agree..we have many
                          members
                          > > who
                          > > > > were protected in many many ways..Like their houses being on
                          fire
                          > > yet
                          > > > > was put out before it reached them.. Or floods that saved all
                          those
                          > > who
                          > > > > were practitioners even though their Gohonzxons were not
                          saved..We
                          > > have
                          > > > > members who escaped being kidnapped, or their family members
                          > > kidnapped
                          > > > > but saved unharmed...were jailed and restored their freedom even
                          > > without
                          > > > > bail... and those who had car accidents and rammed yet were
                          > > unharmed..so
                          > > > > what can we say when some members do not escape such mishaps?
                          > > > > > > We have had members overcome even the harshest conditions
                          and
                          > > worse
                          > > > > of worse sicknesses...it makes me believe that if one has
                          reached
                          > > > > buddhahood all the protective deities really protect us akin to
                          when
                          > > > > fish needs water.., Would this assertion be accurate? That those
                          who
                          > > > > failed to get themselves protected even when practicing, has not
                          yet
                          > > > > reached buddhhood, or has most likely committed grave slanders?
                          > > > > > > My first reaction to this is that, when Nichiren said all
                          people
                          > > are
                          > > > > buddhas, then everyday, buddhas are killed everywhere the world
                          > > over..
                          > > > > And as buddhahood is inherent, what makes protection strong is
                          when
                          > > the
                          > > > > law is actually invoked..
                          > > > > > > While buddhahood is inherent, and some sleeping, well, I
                          think
                          > > it
                          > > > > simply mean that cause and effect is sleepless whether you chant
                          or
                          > > not,
                          > > > > but chanting makes it but if you need to live to the full, then
                          you
                          > > need
                          > > > > to have it full force through chanting.Â
                          > > > > > >
                          > > > > > > --- On Sun, 2/17/13, Angela passaroa25@ wrote:
                          > > > > > >
                          > > > > > > From: Angela passaroa25@
                          > > > > > > Subject: Re: [SGI] Fireball at Nichiren's Execution
                          > > > > > > To: SokaGakkaiUnofficial@yahoogroups.com
                          > > > > > > Date: Sunday, February 17, 2013, 11:06 AM
                          > > > > > >
                          > > > > > >
                          > > > > > >
                          > > > > > >
                          > > > > > >
                          > > > > > >
                          > > > > > >
                          > > > > > >
                          > > > > > >
                          > > > > > >
                          > > > > > >
                          > > > > > >
                          > > > > > >
                          > > > > > >
                          > > > > > >
                          > > > > > >
                          > > > > > > Â
                          > > > > > >
                          > > > > > >
                          > > > > > >
                          > > > > > >
                          > > > > > >
                          > > > > > >
                          > > > > > >
                          > > > > > >
                          > > > > > >
                          > > > > > > By the way, you cannot kill a Buddha. Buddhahood is a
                          > > life
                          > > > > condition; not
                          > > > > > >
                          > > > > > > a person.
                          > > > > > >
                          > > > > > >
                          > > > > > >
                          > > > > > > Angela
                          > > > > > >
                          > > > > > > On Feb 16, 2013 10:02 PM, "Angela" passaroa25@ wrote:
                          > > > > > >
                          > > > > > >
                          > > > > > >
                          > > > > > > > Maybe it is because the sin concept is Christian. We
                          don't
                          > > have
                          > > > > sin in
                          > > > > > >
                          > > > > > > > Buddhism.
                          > > > > > >
                          > > > > > > >
                          > > > > > >
                          > > > > > > > In any case, sinning is really behavior that leads to
                          > > > > unhappiness. For
                          > > > > > >
                          > > > > > > > example, gluttony: we are eating ourselves to death.
                          Anger:
                          > > we
                          > > > > shoot
                          > > > > > >
                          > > > > > > > other people when we are angry. When we act out of anger,
                          the
                          > > > > consequences
                          > > > > > >
                          > > > > > > > for our own life are not always positive.
                          > > > > > >
                          > > > > > > >
                          > > > > > >
                          > > > > > > > Angela
                          > > > > > >
                          > > > > > > > On Feb 16, 2013 6:27 PM, "djgropp" djgropp@ wrote:
                          > > > > > >
                          > > > > > > >
                          > > > > > >
                          > > > > > > >> **
                          > > > > > >
                          > > > > > > >>
                          > > > > > >
                          > > > > > > >>
                          > > > > > >
                          > > > > > > >> Now that we've had an actual experience of a meteor
                          explosion
                          > > > > accompanied
                          > > > > > >
                          > > > > > > >> by a blindingly brilliant light in Russia, it's easy to
                          see
                          > > how
                          > > > > Nichiren
                          > > > > > >
                          > > > > > > >> escaped execution.
                          > > > > > >
                          > > > > > > >>
                          > > > > > >
                          > > > > > > >> BTW, did you know there's no such sin as "killing a
                          Buddha?"
                          > > > > > >
                          > > > > > > >>
                          > > > > > >
                          > > > > > > >>
                          > > > > > >
                          > > > > > > >>
                          > > > > > >
                          > > > > > > >
                          > > > > > >
                          > > > > > >
                          > > > > > >
                          > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          > > > > > >
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                        • shepherdspie1962
                          Bob: I think you can simply focus on the goal of enlightenment or world peace or happiness...no need to get more specific...as your karma is eradicated your
                          Message 12 of 20 , Mar 22, 2013
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                            Bob: I think you can simply focus on the goal of enlightenment or world peace or happiness...no need to get more specific...as your karma is eradicated your life will improve. get specific if you want, but it's not a requirement by any means. just my 2 cents.

                            --- In SokaGakkaiUnofficial@yahoogroups.com, Robert Partick <robertpartick@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > All,
                            > I have a  rather dumb question to pose here...I'm still a novice. To experience the effects of chanting the daimoku we have to chant for a specific goal. Can it be more than one goal? Or does the effect get diluted if there is multiple goals?
                            > Apologies again about my rather lame question!
                            > Bob
                            >
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                            >
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