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Re: [Socialist_Currents] ????????

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  • Steve Weiner
    thanks glenn---as you know, i agree w/ most of your analysis---anyone else have comments?---solidarity/friendship,-s- From: glenngk@juno.com
    Message 1 of 3 , May 23, 2012
      thanks glenn---as you know, i agree w/ most of your analysis---anyone else have comments?---solidarity/friendship,-s-

      From: "glenngk@..." <glenngk@...>
      To: Socialist_Currents@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2012 2:45 PM
      Subject: Re: [Socialist_Currents] ????????

       
      Steve, as you are aware I have been busy at my other large project. The crisis point on that will not last forever. It is my assumption that I will again hopefully within weeks be able to again give to the SDUSA the attention that the project deserves.
      However we really do have a problem. Most of the long term active members are have become either very busy  (I believe that this will be Rick's status since he is President of the city council of Carnegie, New York) or have serious problems such as David. The problem is that while the older active members are bending under the load, the newer members do not seem to want to become stand up to the task. Those that suggest that they did at one time no longer seem willing.
      At the present time at the best, I see the SDUSA as being like that fish in Africa that at the beginning of a dry season that could last several years burrows under the mud and waits until the next rains. Of course a much worse possibility exists. Perhaps we are just at the last death throes of socialism as an ideology.
      One of the difficulties we face is connected to the issues of socialism vs. social democracy. The fact is that a strong if not altogether healthy social democratic movement exists in the United States. It is represented by the left wing base of the Democratic Party and various left organizations such as Move-on.org  that are generally defined as left. The problem resolves around the question of does that social democratic movement really need very small self defined social democratic organizations for its self expression and work. Evidently most within the movement believe that it does not.
      Now again the issue with socialism is different. I agree with Craig Miller who seems to believe that social democracy and socialism are in fact two differing political ideologies. Socialists in my opinion have a vision of a society in which capitalism has been fully supplanted be a new egalitarian political economic order. Social democracy simply wants to regulate capitalism add the required safety nets and make capitalism more humane and just. Of course it is quite possible to be both a social democrat and a socialist and to see social democracy as being about present political struggles and socialism as the hopeful long term fullfillment of the process. However I believe that most social democratic parties tend over time to gradually lose interest in socialism as an ultimate vision and become almost exclusively interested in short term political goals. I think that this is in fact what has happened to most of the Western European parties and in fact the SDUSA in the past. I think that this process is a good part of the reason why the SDUSA took such a conservative turn in the 1980s and '90s.
      Of course in Europe this process has not become fatal. The Social Democratic parties of Europe are the European equivalents of the US Democratic Party. In the United States however what has developed has been several very small organizations which are strongly social democratic in ideology in a society which finds it main social democratic expression else where. These same parties also have a socialist presence. Unfortunately they exist in  a society which in general sees socialism as being an irrelevant or dead ideology. The fact of matter to become a socialist in this world  is a matter of faith. In this world you have to believe in socialism as faith against faith even against the evidence. Unfortunately most people even if they believe that socialism is a nice idea do not believe that it is a real viable option of value in the real world. Thus they develop no commitment toward it. Thus socialism withers on the vine.
      Glenn

      ---------- Original Message ----------
      From: Steve Weiner <Weinersteve@...>
      To: "Socialist_Currents@yahoogroups.com" <Socialist_Currents@yahoogroups.com>
      Subject: [Socialist_Currents] ????????
      Date: Wed, 23 May 2012 13:49:02 -0700 (PDT)

       
      does anyone want to discuss anything?------s----


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