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Rare are Authentic Disciples.....

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  • Bob M.
    Today, many of those who deem themselves eligible for spiritual life sooner or later discover or have to be told that they stand in false relationship to it
    Message 1 of 7 , Feb 24, 2007
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      Today, many of those who deem themselves eligible for
      spiritual life sooner or later discover or have to be
      told that they stand in false relationship to it and
      their teacher.

      Psychologist Francis Vaughan has provided a useful
      elementary typology of spiritually motivated men and
      women. She distinguishes between the 'sycophant', who
      enjoys basking in reflected glory but is unwilling
      to adopt real discipline; the 'seeker', who is like a
      free-floating sponge on the spiritual path and
      generally lacks commitment; the 'devotee', whose love
      for the teacher is so all-consuming that it leaves
      little room for the balanced development of his or her
      own personality; the 'student', who approaches spiritual
      life primarily through the mind and likes to engage the
      teacher in verbal considerations; and finally, the
      DISCIPLE, who is serious about spiritual growth and
      is prepared to discipline himself or herself in light
      of the teaching and the teacher's demands.

      The authentic disciple is possibly as rare as the
      genuinely awakened teacher. This is true especially
      in our age, which exhibits such abysmal ignorance of,
      and insensitivity to, spiritual life. Not a few teachers
      are seekers themselves who pretend otherwise. Not a few
      seekers are little more than unhappy neurotics in quest
      of self-fulfillment rather than self-transcendence. This
      is the flimsy stuff that many religions or spiritual
      cults are made of.

      [Source Unknown]

      Bob M.
    • Bob M.
      Or one might call it Krishnamurti s rendition of Luke 18: 29-30. Thou must cleanse thyself Of the conceit of little knowledge; Thou must purify thyself Of thy
      Message 2 of 7 , Feb 26, 2007
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        Or one might call it Krishnamurti's rendition
        of Luke 18: 29-30.

        "Thou must cleanse thyself
        Of the conceit of little knowledge;
        Thou must purify thyself
        Of thy heart and mind;
        Thou must renounce all
        Thy companions,
        Thy friends, thy family,
        Thy father, thy mother,
        Thy sister and thy brother;
        Yea,
        Thou must renounce all;
        Thou must destroy
        Thy self utterly
        To find the Beloved."

        J. K.

        Bob M.
      • Bob M.
        It s ABSOLUTELY NECESSARY for maturity that there should be: 1. Complete simplicity which goes with humility, not in things or possessions but in the quality
        Message 3 of 7 , Feb 26, 2007
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          "It's ABSOLUTELY NECESSARY for maturity that there
          should be:

          1. Complete simplicity which goes with humility, not
          in things or possessions but in the quality of being.

          2. Passion with that intensity which is not merely
          physical.

          3. Beauty; not only the sensitivity to outward reality
          but being sensitive to that beauty which is beyond and
          above thought and feeling.

          4. Love; the totality of it, not the thing that knows
          jealousy, attachment, dependence; not that as divided
          into carnal and divine. The whole immensity of it.

          5. And the mind that can pursue, that can penetrate
          without motive, without purpose, into its own
          immersurable depths; that has no barrier, that
          is free to wonder without time-space."

          J. Krishnamurti ('Notebook' 7/29/61)

          Bob M.
        • Bob M.
          It would be wise if after a certain age, perhaps let us say forty or forty-five, or younger still, you retired from the world, before you are too old. What
          Message 4 of 7 , Feb 28, 2007
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            "It would be wise if after a certain age, perhaps let
            us say forty or forty-five, or younger still, you retired
            from the world, before you are too old. What would happen
            if you did retire not merely to enjoy the fruit of sensate
            gatherings but retired in order to find yourself, in order
            to think and feel profoundly, to meditate, to discover
            reality? Perhaps you may save mankind from the sensate,
            worldly path it is following, with all its brutality,
            deception and sorrow. Thus there may be a group of people,
            being disassociated from worldliness, from its
            identifications and demands, able to guide it, to teach it.
            Being free from worldliness they will have no authority,
            no importance and so will not be drawn into its stupidities
            and calamities. For a man (or woman} who is not free from
            authority, from position, is not able to guide, to teach
            another. A man (or woman) who is in authority is identified
            with his (or her) position, with his (or her) importance,
            with his (or her) missionary work and so is in bondage.
            To understand the freedom of truth there must be freedom
            to experience. If such a group came into being then they
            could produce a new world, a new culture."
            (J. Krishnamurti Ojai 4th Public Talk 4th June, 1944)

            Bob M.
          • Bob M.
            The point is that as the crisis is of an exceptional character to meet it there must be revolution in thinking; and this revolution cannot take place through
            Message 5 of 7 , Feb 28, 2007
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              "The point is that as the crisis is of an exceptional
              character to meet it there must be revolution in
              thinking; and this revolution cannot take place through
              another, through any book, through any organization. It
              must come through us, through each one of us. Only then
              can we create a NEW SOCIETY, a new structure AWAY from
              this *horror*, AWAY from these *destructive forces* that
              are being accumulated, piled up; and that transformation
              comes into being only when you as an individual begin to
              be aware of yourself in every thought, action and feeling."
              (J.K.)

              Bob M.
            • Bob M.
              But those who really desire to understand, who are looking to find that which is eternal, without beginning and without an end, will walk together with a
              Message 6 of 7 , Feb 28, 2007
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                "But those who really desire to understand, who are
                looking to find that which is eternal, without beginning
                and without an end, will walk together with a greater
                intensity, will be a danger to everything that is
                unessential, to unrealities, to shadows. And they will
                concentrate, they will become the flame, because they
                understand. *Such a body we must create, and that is
                my purpose*. Because of that real understanding there
                will be true friendship. Because of that true friendship–
                which you do not seem to know–there will be real
                cooperation on the part of each one. And this not
                because of authority, not because of salvation, not
                because of immolation for a cause, but because you
                really understand, and hence are capable of living
                in the eternal. This is a greater thing than all
                pleasure, than all sacrifice." (J. K. - 'Dissolution Speech '29)

                But till it was all said and done it seems clear that
                the gates of hell prevailed against both K and his goal
                here, his vision of setting men 'absolutely,
                unconditionally free.'

                "Such a body we must create, and that is my purpose."
                (J. K.)

                Good try - but NO cigar Mr. Krishnamurti. Actually I
                think instead, and after the curtain finally closed,
                you really wound up making quite mess of things,
                including your very own so-called 'teachings'.

                Bob M.
              • Bob M.
                Woke up this morning with an enormous sense of POWER, beauty and incorruptibility. It was not something that had happened, an experience that was past and one
                Message 7 of 7 , Feb 28, 2007
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                  "Woke up this morning with an enormous sense of POWER,
                  beauty and incorruptibility. It was not something that
                  had happened, an experience that was past and one woke
                  up to remember it as a dream, but something that was
                  ACTUALLY TAKING PLACE. One was aware of something utterly
                  incorruptable, in which nothing could possibly exist and
                  become corrupt, deteriorate. It was too immense for the
                  brain to grasp, to remember; it could only register,
                  mechanically, that there is such a "state" of incorruption
                  .......One felt that in its presence all essence exists
                  and IT WAS SO SACRED. It was a life in which nothing
                  could perish.......With it all, there was that sense of
                  POWER, STRENGTH AS SOLID AS THAT MOUNTAIN that nothing
                  could shatter. It was there, immense, which no wave of
                  thought could corrupt, a thing remembered. It was there
                  and the eyes, the breath were of it."

                  "Why should this all happen to us? No explanation is
                  good enough, though one could invent a dozen. But certain
                  things are clear. 1. One must be wholly "indifferent" to
                  it coming and going. 2. There must be no desire to continue
                  the experience or store it away in memory. 3 There must
                  be a certain physical sensitivity, a certain indifference
                  to comfort. 4. There must be self-critical humorous
                  approach.......You can add love to the list but it is
                  BEYOND LOVE. One thing is certain, the brain can never
                  comprehend it nor can it contain it. BLESSED IS HE TO
                  WHOM IT IS GIVEN. And you can add also a still, quiet
                  brain."

                  K in his 'Notebook', (July 23rd)

                  Bob M.
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