Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Re: Man - the human machine.....

Expand Messages
  • Bob M.
    Men are machines. Machines have to be blind and unconscious, they can not be otherwise, and all their actions have to correspond to their nature. Everything
    Message 1 of 21 , Dec 3, 2006
    • 0 Attachment
      "Men are machines. Machines have to be blind and unconscious, they can
      not be otherwise, and all their actions have to correspond to their
      nature. Everything happens. No one does anything. 'Progress'
      and 'civilization' in the real meaning of the words, can appear only as
      a result of 'conscious' efforts...And what conscious effort can there
      be in machines?...And the unconscious activity of a million machines
      must necessarily result in destruction and extermination. It is
      precisely in unconscious involuntary manifestations that all
      evil lies." (G. I. Gurdjieff)

      Bob M.
    • Bob M.
      It happens fairly often that essence dies in a man while his personality and body are still alive. A considerable percentage of the people we meet in the
      Message 2 of 21 , Dec 3, 2006
      • 0 Attachment
        "It happens fairly often that essence dies in a man while his
        personality and body are still alive. A considerable percentage of the
        people we meet in the streets of a great town are people who are empty
        inside, that is, they are 'already dead'. It is fortunate for us that
        we do not see and do not know it. If we knew what number of people are
        actually dead and what number of these dead people govern our lives, we
        would go mad with horror." (G. I. Gurdjieff)

        Bob M.
      • Bob M.
        Man is asleep, literally asleep. He lives, works, marries, reproduces, goes to war, grows old, and finally dies like a dog in a deep hypnotic sleep. But there
        Message 3 of 21 , Dec 3, 2006
        • 0 Attachment
          "Man is asleep, literally asleep. He lives, works, marries, reproduces,
          goes to war, grows old, and finally dies like a dog in a deep hypnotic
          sleep. But there is a possibility to awaken. Man has 'Buffers' which
          prevent him awakening, they prevent him from seeing the contradictions
          in his behaviour. He believes he already is what he should wish to
          become. Man needs to be 'shocked' into awakening. An example of 'shock'
          is the technique of 'self remembering'. Man is a machine. He is not
          responsible for his actions. He acts in the only way he can act. He
          acts mechanically, thinks mecanically, reacts mechanically - therefore
          he is a machine! Man needs to observe the machine in himself, separate
          himself from it, and struggle with it. 'I am a machine' can become
          (with hard Work) - 'I have a machine'." (G. I. Gurdjieff)

          Bob M.
        • Bob M.
          There do exist enquiring minds, which long for the truth of the heart, seek it, strive to solve the problems set by life, try to penetrate to the essence of
          Message 4 of 21 , Dec 3, 2006
          • 0 Attachment
            "There do exist enquiring minds, which long for the truth of the heart,
            seek it, strive to solve the problems set by life, try to penetrate to
            the essence of things and phenomena and to penetrate into themselves.
            If a man reasons and thinks soundly, no matter which path he follows in
            solving these problems, he must inevitably arrive back at himself, and
            begin with the solution of the problem of what he is himself and what
            his place is in the world around him." (G. I. Gurdjieff)

            "The essential thing, the first thing, is to prepare a nucleus of
            people capable of responding to the demand which will arise...So long
            as there is no responsible nucleus, the action of the ideas will not go
            beyond a certain threshold. That will take time...a lot of time even."
            (Gurdjieff's last recorded words spoken to Jeanne de Salzmann)

            Bob M.
          • cosmic_hunter56
            G was a very interesting character, Bob. Human machine, many I s, octaves of creation, and recurrence are all thought-provoking concepts. Last night I had
            Message 5 of 21 , Dec 3, 2006
            • 0 Attachment
              G was a very interesting character, Bob. Human machine, many "I's,"
              octaves of creation, and recurrence are all thought-provoking
              concepts.

              Last night I had friend over who is interested in these things as
              well, and we watched the 'Huckabees' together (did you ever see that
              movie?). The movie contrasts two existential philosophies, nihilism
              and its opposite.

              Do you consider yourself to be a "nihilist" Bob?

              Ken

              --- In Soar_Like_An_Eagle_2@yahoogroups.com, "Bob M."
              <new_trail_blazer@...> wrote:
              >
              > "There do exist enquiring minds, which long for the truth of the
              heart,
              > seek it, strive to solve the problems set by life, try to penetrate
              to
              > the essence of things and phenomena and to penetrate into
              themselves.
              > If a man reasons and thinks soundly, no matter which path he
              follows in
              > solving these problems, he must inevitably arrive back at himself,
              and
              > begin with the solution of the problem of what he is himself and
              what
              > his place is in the world around him." (G. I. Gurdjieff)
              >
              > "The essential thing, the first thing, is to prepare a nucleus of
              > people capable of responding to the demand which will arise...So
              long
              > as there is no responsible nucleus, the action of the ideas will
              not go
              > beyond a certain threshold. That will take time...a lot of time
              even."
              > (Gurdjieff's last recorded words spoken to Jeanne de Salzmann)
              >
              > Bob M.
              >
            • cosmic_hunter56
              From what I ve read, Bob, G himself became crystallized along the way and did not fully awaken, though his words ring true. Ken ... affairs ... but ... Few
              Message 6 of 21 , Dec 3, 2006
              • 0 Attachment
                From what I've read, Bob, G himself became crystallized along the way
                and did not fully awaken, though his words ring true. Ken


                --- In Soar_Like_An_Eagle_2@yahoogroups.com, "Bob M."
                <new_trail_blazer@...> wrote:
                >
                > "Man as we encounter him is an automaton. His thoughts, feelings,
                > and deeds are little more than mechanical reactions to external and
                > internal stimuli. He cannot do anything. In and around him,
                > everything happens without the participation of his own authentic
                > consciousness. But human beings are ignorant of this state of
                affairs
                > because of the pervasive influence of culture and education, which
                > engrave in them the illusion of autonomous conscious selves. In
                > short, man is asleep. There is no authentic I am in his presence,
                but
                > only an egoism which masquerades as the authentic self, and whose
                > machinations poorly imitate the normal human functions of thought,
                > feeling, and will. One needs a relentless will to work, rooted in an
                > inexhaustible Wish, a hunger to learn to be - and, even that is not
                > enough. One also needs help from others. And there's worse news yet:
                > authentic help is hard to find, since few in our world are awake.
                Few
                > have created a real 'I'." (G. I. Gurdjieff)
                >
                > Bob M.
                >
              • Bob M.
                I think Gurdjieff reached the summit alright, as did many others, and likewise couldn t firmly plant himself there either, Ken. The sauce and the smokes
                Message 7 of 21 , Dec 3, 2006
                • 0 Attachment
                  I think Gurdjieff reached the summit alright, as did many others, and
                  likewise couldn't firmly plant himself there either, Ken. The sauce and
                  the smokes probably being his main undoing. Of course he never really
                  had a real plan either, as was the case too with most of the 'big-boys'
                  who talked pretty upright, but just never managed to walk fully upright.

                  Bob M.
                  _______________________________________

                  --- In Soar_Like_An_Eagle_2@yahoogroups.com, "cosmic_hunter56"
                  <cosmic_hunter56@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > From what I've read, Bob, G himself became crystallized along the way
                  > and did not fully awaken, though his words ring true. Ken
                  Bob M.
                • Bob M.
                  And the unconscious activity of a million machines must necessarily result in destruction and extermination. (Gurdjieff) I find this notion of Gurdjieff dead
                  Message 8 of 21 , Dec 3, 2006
                  • 0 Attachment
                    "And the unconscious activity of a million machines must necessarily
                    result in destruction and extermination." (Gurdjieff)

                    I find this notion of Gurdjieff dead on, Ken. And it is mine too.
                    Human authenticity is virtually non-existent. The Apocalypse is close
                    at hand.

                    A nihilist?

                    How about an antinililist, a Creative Spirit, as Nietzsche layed out
                    below regarding the man that must come one day?

                    "The CREATIVE SPIRIT".....

                    "But some day, in a stronger age than this decaying, self-doubting
                    present, he must yet come to us, the redeeming man of great love and
                    contempt, the creative spirit whose compelling strength will not let
                    him rest in any aloofness or any beyond, whose isolation is
                    misunderstood by the people as if it were flight from reality--while
                    it is only his absorption, immersion, penetration into reality, so
                    that, when he one day emerges again into the light, he may bring home
                    the redemption of this reality; its redemption from the curse that
                    the hitherto reigning ideal has laid upon it. This man of the future,
                    who will redeem us not only from the hitherto reigning ideal but also
                    from that which was bound to grow out of it..., nihilism; ...this
                    Antichrist and antinihilist, this victor over God and nothingness--he
                    must come one day." (Nietzsche -GM)

                    Bob M.

                    I was never really a movie buff, Ken. I had no clue as to what 'The
                    Last Picture Show' was about that Peter mention yesterday, although I
                    heard the name. I guess at my age one could not help having heard the
                    name, as it's all apart of our cultural hype and conditioning. But at
                    least I didn't have to be the 'first to conform' and race off and go
                    and see the film.
                    _____________________________________

                    --- In Soar_Like_An_Eagle_2@yahoogroups.com, "cosmic_hunter56"
                    <cosmic_hunter56@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > G was a very interesting character, Bob. Human machine, many "I's,"
                    > octaves of creation, and recurrence are all thought-provoking
                    > concepts.
                    >
                    > Last night I had friend over who is interested in these things as
                    > well, and we watched the 'Huckabees' together (did you ever see
                    that
                    > movie?). The movie contrasts two existential philosophies, nihilism
                    > and its opposite.
                    >
                    > Do you consider yourself to be a "nihilist" Bob?
                    >
                    > Ken
                  • proustienne2001
                    Yes indeed, Bob. That is the bottom line. Walking the talk. Peter ... and ... and ... really ... boys ... upright. ... way
                    Message 9 of 21 , Dec 3, 2006
                    • 0 Attachment
                      Yes indeed, Bob. That is the bottom line. Walking the talk.
                      Peter
                      --- In Soar_Like_An_Eagle_2@yahoogroups.com, "Bob M."
                      <new_trail_blazer@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > I think Gurdjieff reached the summit alright, as did many others,
                      and
                      > likewise couldn't firmly plant himself there either, Ken. The sauce
                      and
                      > the smokes probably being his main undoing. Of course he never
                      really
                      > had a real plan either, as was the case too with most of the 'big-
                      boys'
                      > who talked pretty upright, but just never managed to walk fully
                      upright.
                      >
                      > Bob M.
                      > _______________________________________
                      >
                      > --- In Soar_Like_An_Eagle_2@yahoogroups.com, "cosmic_hunter56"
                      > <cosmic_hunter56@> wrote:
                      > >
                      > > From what I've read, Bob, G himself became crystallized along the
                      way
                      > > and did not fully awaken, though his words ring true. Ken
                      > Bob M.
                      >
                    • Bob M.
                      Yes Peter, and as soon as I read your words here, a thought of my own lingering cowardice came to mind. Yet I m convinced that when it comes to any human
                      Message 10 of 21 , Dec 4, 2006
                      • 0 Attachment
                        Yes Peter, and as soon as I read your words here, a thought of my own
                        lingering cowardice came to mind. Yet I'm convinced that when it
                        comes to any human spiritual enterprise or undertaking the 'moral
                        compass' must be the primary guide. Beginning with repentance and on
                        to a thorough rebuilding of the mind, body, and spirit. And again
                        this is where most all of the so-called 'big boys' have failed.

                        "Sought through prayer and meditation to improve our conscious
                        contact with God, as we understood him, praying ONLY for knowledge of
                        His will for us AND THE POWER TO CARRY THAT OUT." (Step 11)

                        "Thy will be done."

                        Bob M.
                        __________________________________________


                        --- In Soar_Like_An_Eagle_2@yahoogroups.com, "proustienne2001"
                        <proustienne2001@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > Yes indeed, Bob. That is the bottom line. Walking the talk.
                        > Peter
                      • proustienne2001
                        Bob, I have enjoyed the references to Kierkegaard you have made in your recent posts. Has he been a big influence on your thinking? Kierkegaard writes that the
                        Message 11 of 21 , Dec 4, 2006
                        • 0 Attachment
                          Bob, I have enjoyed the references to Kierkegaard you have made in
                          your recent posts. Has he been a big influence on your thinking?
                          Kierkegaard writes that the personality is only ripe when a man has
                          made the truth his own.
                          Peter
                          --- In Soar_Like_An_Eagle_2@yahoogroups.com, "Bob M."
                          <new_trail_blazer@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > Yes Peter, and as soon as I read your words here, a thought of my
                          own
                          > lingering cowardice came to mind. Yet I'm convinced that when it
                          > comes to any human spiritual enterprise or undertaking the 'moral
                          > compass' must be the primary guide. Beginning with repentance and
                          on
                          > to a thorough rebuilding of the mind, body, and spirit. And again
                          > this is where most all of the so-called 'big boys' have failed.
                          >
                          > "Sought through prayer and meditation to improve our conscious
                          > contact with God, as we understood him, praying ONLY for knowledge
                          of
                          > His will for us AND THE POWER TO CARRY THAT OUT." (Step 11)
                          >
                          > "Thy will be done."
                          >
                          > Bob M.
                          > __________________________________________
                          >
                          >
                          > --- In Soar_Like_An_Eagle_2@yahoogroups.com, "proustienne2001"
                          > <proustienne2001@> wrote:
                          > >
                          > > Yes indeed, Bob. That is the bottom line. Walking the talk.
                          > > Peter
                          >
                        • Bob M.
                          No, I d say Krishnamurti and Nietzsche were definitely my biggest influences, Peter. And I d prefer to think that the personality is only ripe when a man has
                          Message 12 of 21 , Dec 5, 2006
                          • 0 Attachment
                            No, I'd say Krishnamurti and Nietzsche were definitely my biggest
                            influences, Peter. And I'd prefer to think that the personality is
                            only ripe when a man has gone beyond good and evil. And it's terribly
                            lonely over there as Kierkegaard and some others knew full well
                            indeed.

                            And more and more am I realizing this deep truth which is reflected
                            well in the following line of Kahlil Gibran from his book 'The Broken
                            Wings', along too with the sad fact that few there be that ever get
                            there or ripen.

                            "In that year (18 years of age) I was reborn and unless a man is born
                            again his life will remain like a blank sheet in the book of
                            existence. In that year, I saw the angels of Heaven looking at me
                            through the eyes of a beautiful woman. I also saw the devils of hell
                            raging in the heart of an evil man. He who does not see the angels
                            and devils in the beauty and malice of life will be far removed from
                            knowledge, and his spirit will be empty of affection." (Kahlil G.)

                            "This is what is sad when one contemplates human life, that so many
                            live out their lives in quiet lostness . . . they live, as it were,
                            away from themselves and vanish like shadows. (Soren K.)

                            Bob M.
                            ________________________________________________

                            --- In Soar_Like_An_Eagle_2@yahoogroups.com, "proustienne2001"
                            <proustienne2001@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > Bob, I have enjoyed the references to Kierkegaard you have made in
                            > your recent posts. Has he been a big influence on your thinking?
                            > Kierkegaard writes that the personality is only ripe when a man
                            has
                            > made the truth his own.
                            > Peter
                          • proustienne2001
                            Bob, I like the Kierkegaard quote. Which of his books is it from? I had a friend who died a couple of years ago, his favorite philosopher was Kierkegaard. And
                            Message 13 of 21 , Dec 5, 2006
                            • 0 Attachment
                              Bob, I like the Kierkegaard quote. Which of his books is it from? I
                              had a friend who died a couple of years ago, his favorite philosopher
                              was Kierkegaard. And this man had read everything-philosophy,
                              mathematics, theology.
                              I like this from Kierkegaard:Boredom is the root of all evil - the
                              despairing refusal to be oneself.
                              Peter
                              --- In Soar_Like_An_Eagle_2@yahoogroups.com, "Bob M."
                              <new_trail_blazer@...> wrote:
                              >
                              > No, I'd say Krishnamurti and Nietzsche were definitely my biggest
                              > influences, Peter. And I'd prefer to think that the personality is
                              > only ripe when a man has gone beyond good and evil. And it's
                              terribly
                              > lonely over there as Kierkegaard and some others knew full well
                              > indeed.
                              >
                              > And more and more am I realizing this deep truth which is reflected
                              > well in the following line of Kahlil Gibran from his book 'The
                              Broken
                              > Wings', along too with the sad fact that few there be that ever get
                              > there or ripen.
                              >
                              > "In that year (18 years of age) I was reborn and unless a man is
                              born
                              > again his life will remain like a blank sheet in the book of
                              > existence. In that year, I saw the angels of Heaven looking at me
                              > through the eyes of a beautiful woman. I also saw the devils of
                              hell
                              > raging in the heart of an evil man. He who does not see the angels
                              > and devils in the beauty and malice of life will be far removed
                              from
                              > knowledge, and his spirit will be empty of affection." (Kahlil G.)
                              >
                              > "This is what is sad when one contemplates human life, that so many
                              > live out their lives in quiet lostness . . . they live, as it were,
                              > away from themselves and vanish like shadows. (Soren K.)
                              >
                              > Bob M.
                              > ________________________________________________
                              >
                              > --- In Soar_Like_An_Eagle_2@yahoogroups.com, "proustienne2001"
                              > <proustienne2001@> wrote:
                              > >
                              > > Bob, I have enjoyed the references to Kierkegaard you have made
                              in
                              > > your recent posts. Has he been a big influence on your thinking?
                              > > Kierkegaard writes that the personality is only ripe when a man
                              > has
                              > > made the truth his own.
                              > > Peter
                              >
                            • cosmic_hunter56
                              Many of us are well read, Peter--our minds are full, but our hearts remain hungry. Ken ... philosopher ... is ... reflected ... get ... angels ... many ...
                              Message 14 of 21 , Dec 5, 2006
                              • 0 Attachment
                                Many of us are well read, Peter--our minds are full, but our hearts
                                remain hungry. Ken

                                --- In Soar_Like_An_Eagle_2@yahoogroups.com, "proustienne2001"
                                <proustienne2001@...> wrote:
                                >
                                > Bob, I like the Kierkegaard quote. Which of his books is it from? I
                                > had a friend who died a couple of years ago, his favorite
                                philosopher
                                > was Kierkegaard. And this man had read everything-philosophy,
                                > mathematics, theology.
                                > I like this from Kierkegaard:Boredom is the root of all evil - the
                                > despairing refusal to be oneself.
                                > Peter
                                > --- In Soar_Like_An_Eagle_2@yahoogroups.com, "Bob M."
                                > <new_trail_blazer@> wrote:
                                > >
                                > > No, I'd say Krishnamurti and Nietzsche were definitely my biggest
                                > > influences, Peter. And I'd prefer to think that the personality
                                is
                                > > only ripe when a man has gone beyond good and evil. And it's
                                > terribly
                                > > lonely over there as Kierkegaard and some others knew full well
                                > > indeed.
                                > >
                                > > And more and more am I realizing this deep truth which is
                                reflected
                                > > well in the following line of Kahlil Gibran from his book 'The
                                > Broken
                                > > Wings', along too with the sad fact that few there be that ever
                                get
                                > > there or ripen.
                                > >
                                > > "In that year (18 years of age) I was reborn and unless a man is
                                > born
                                > > again his life will remain like a blank sheet in the book of
                                > > existence. In that year, I saw the angels of Heaven looking at me
                                > > through the eyes of a beautiful woman. I also saw the devils of
                                > hell
                                > > raging in the heart of an evil man. He who does not see the
                                angels
                                > > and devils in the beauty and malice of life will be far removed
                                > from
                                > > knowledge, and his spirit will be empty of affection." (Kahlil G.)
                                > >
                                > > "This is what is sad when one contemplates human life, that so
                                many
                                > > live out their lives in quiet lostness . . . they live, as it
                                were,
                                > > away from themselves and vanish like shadows. (Soren K.)
                                > >
                                > > Bob M.
                                > > ________________________________________________
                                > >
                                > > --- In Soar_Like_An_Eagle_2@yahoogroups.com, "proustienne2001"
                                > > <proustienne2001@> wrote:
                                > > >
                                > > > Bob, I have enjoyed the references to Kierkegaard you have made
                                > in
                                > > > your recent posts. Has he been a big influence on your
                                thinking?
                                > > > Kierkegaard writes that the personality is only ripe when a
                                man
                                > > has
                                > > > made the truth his own.
                                > > > Peter
                                > >
                                >
                              • Bob M.
                                I think I got that particular K quote a long time ago from Will Brown s (who is or was a member here) Kierkegaard Quotes which you can find at the following
                                Message 15 of 21 , Dec 5, 2006
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  I think I got that particular K quote a long time ago from Will
                                  Brown's (who is or was a member here) Kierkegaard Quotes which you
                                  can find at the following url:

                                  http://www.geocities.com/wilbro99/

                                  The K quote you mention can be found in its fuller form at the
                                  following url:

                                  http://uk.groups.yahoo.com/group/Soar_Like_An_Eagle/message/42

                                  Bob M.
                                  _____________________________________________

                                  --- In Soar_Like_An_Eagle_2@yahoogroups.com, "proustienne2001"
                                  <proustienne2001@...> wrote:
                                  >
                                  > Bob, I like the Kierkegaard quote. Which of his books is it from? I
                                  > had a friend who died a couple of years ago, his favorite
                                  philosopher
                                  > was Kierkegaard. And this man had read everything-philosophy,
                                  > mathematics, theology.
                                  > I like this from Kierkegaard:Boredom is the root of all evil - the
                                  > despairing refusal to be oneself.
                                  > Peter
                                • proustienne2001
                                  Bob, what does your heart need? Peter ... I ... the ... biggest ... is ... me ... G.) ... made
                                  Message 16 of 21 , Dec 5, 2006
                                  • 0 Attachment
                                    Bob, what does your heart need?
                                    Peter
                                    --- In Soar_Like_An_Eagle_2@yahoogroups.com, "cosmic_hunter56"
                                    <cosmic_hunter56@...> wrote:
                                    >
                                    > Many of us are well read, Peter--our minds are full, but our hearts
                                    > remain hungry. Ken
                                    >
                                    > --- In Soar_Like_An_Eagle_2@yahoogroups.com, "proustienne2001"
                                    > <proustienne2001@> wrote:
                                    > >
                                    > > Bob, I like the Kierkegaard quote. Which of his books is it from?
                                    I
                                    > > had a friend who died a couple of years ago, his favorite
                                    > philosopher
                                    > > was Kierkegaard. And this man had read everything-philosophy,
                                    > > mathematics, theology.
                                    > > I like this from Kierkegaard:Boredom is the root of all evil -
                                    the
                                    > > despairing refusal to be oneself.
                                    > > Peter
                                    > > --- In Soar_Like_An_Eagle_2@yahoogroups.com, "Bob M."
                                    > > <new_trail_blazer@> wrote:
                                    > > >
                                    > > > No, I'd say Krishnamurti and Nietzsche were definitely my
                                    biggest
                                    > > > influences, Peter. And I'd prefer to think that the personality
                                    > is
                                    > > > only ripe when a man has gone beyond good and evil. And it's
                                    > > terribly
                                    > > > lonely over there as Kierkegaard and some others knew full well
                                    > > > indeed.
                                    > > >
                                    > > > And more and more am I realizing this deep truth which is
                                    > reflected
                                    > > > well in the following line of Kahlil Gibran from his book 'The
                                    > > Broken
                                    > > > Wings', along too with the sad fact that few there be that ever
                                    > get
                                    > > > there or ripen.
                                    > > >
                                    > > > "In that year (18 years of age) I was reborn and unless a man
                                    is
                                    > > born
                                    > > > again his life will remain like a blank sheet in the book of
                                    > > > existence. In that year, I saw the angels of Heaven looking at
                                    me
                                    > > > through the eyes of a beautiful woman. I also saw the devils of
                                    > > hell
                                    > > > raging in the heart of an evil man. He who does not see the
                                    > angels
                                    > > > and devils in the beauty and malice of life will be far removed
                                    > > from
                                    > > > knowledge, and his spirit will be empty of affection." (Kahlil
                                    G.)
                                    > > >
                                    > > > "This is what is sad when one contemplates human life, that so
                                    > many
                                    > > > live out their lives in quiet lostness . . . they live, as it
                                    > were,
                                    > > > away from themselves and vanish like shadows. (Soren K.)
                                    > > >
                                    > > > Bob M.
                                    > > > ________________________________________________
                                    > > >
                                    > > > --- In Soar_Like_An_Eagle_2@yahoogroups.com, "proustienne2001"
                                    > > > <proustienne2001@> wrote:
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > > Bob, I have enjoyed the references to Kierkegaard you have
                                    made
                                    > > in
                                    > > > > your recent posts. Has he been a big influence on your
                                    > thinking?
                                    > > > > Kierkegaard writes that the personality is only ripe when a
                                    > man
                                    > > > has
                                    > > > > made the truth his own.
                                    > > > > Peter
                                    > > >
                                    > >
                                    >
                                  • proustienne2001
                                    Ken, I wonder if everbody has a hungry heart? Peter ... I ... the ... biggest ... is ... me ... G.) ... made
                                    Message 17 of 21 , Dec 5, 2006
                                    • 0 Attachment
                                      Ken, I wonder if everbody has a hungry heart?
                                      Peter
                                      --- In Soar_Like_An_Eagle_2@yahoogroups.com, "cosmic_hunter56"
                                      <cosmic_hunter56@...> wrote:
                                      >
                                      > Many of us are well read, Peter--our minds are full, but our hearts
                                      > remain hungry. Ken
                                      >
                                      > --- In Soar_Like_An_Eagle_2@yahoogroups.com, "proustienne2001"
                                      > <proustienne2001@> wrote:
                                      > >
                                      > > Bob, I like the Kierkegaard quote. Which of his books is it from?
                                      I
                                      > > had a friend who died a couple of years ago, his favorite
                                      > philosopher
                                      > > was Kierkegaard. And this man had read everything-philosophy,
                                      > > mathematics, theology.
                                      > > I like this from Kierkegaard:Boredom is the root of all evil -
                                      the
                                      > > despairing refusal to be oneself.
                                      > > Peter
                                      > > --- In Soar_Like_An_Eagle_2@yahoogroups.com, "Bob M."
                                      > > <new_trail_blazer@> wrote:
                                      > > >
                                      > > > No, I'd say Krishnamurti and Nietzsche were definitely my
                                      biggest
                                      > > > influences, Peter. And I'd prefer to think that the personality
                                      > is
                                      > > > only ripe when a man has gone beyond good and evil. And it's
                                      > > terribly
                                      > > > lonely over there as Kierkegaard and some others knew full well
                                      > > > indeed.
                                      > > >
                                      > > > And more and more am I realizing this deep truth which is
                                      > reflected
                                      > > > well in the following line of Kahlil Gibran from his book 'The
                                      > > Broken
                                      > > > Wings', along too with the sad fact that few there be that ever
                                      > get
                                      > > > there or ripen.
                                      > > >
                                      > > > "In that year (18 years of age) I was reborn and unless a man
                                      is
                                      > > born
                                      > > > again his life will remain like a blank sheet in the book of
                                      > > > existence. In that year, I saw the angels of Heaven looking at
                                      me
                                      > > > through the eyes of a beautiful woman. I also saw the devils of
                                      > > hell
                                      > > > raging in the heart of an evil man. He who does not see the
                                      > angels
                                      > > > and devils in the beauty and malice of life will be far removed
                                      > > from
                                      > > > knowledge, and his spirit will be empty of affection." (Kahlil
                                      G.)
                                      > > >
                                      > > > "This is what is sad when one contemplates human life, that so
                                      > many
                                      > > > live out their lives in quiet lostness . . . they live, as it
                                      > were,
                                      > > > away from themselves and vanish like shadows. (Soren K.)
                                      > > >
                                      > > > Bob M.
                                      > > > ________________________________________________
                                      > > >
                                      > > > --- In Soar_Like_An_Eagle_2@yahoogroups.com, "proustienne2001"
                                      > > > <proustienne2001@> wrote:
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > > Bob, I have enjoyed the references to Kierkegaard you have
                                      made
                                      > > in
                                      > > > > your recent posts. Has he been a big influence on your
                                      > thinking?
                                      > > > > Kierkegaard writes that the personality is only ripe when a
                                      > man
                                      > > > has
                                      > > > > made the truth his own.
                                      > > > > Peter
                                      > > >
                                      > >
                                      >
                                    • Bob M.
                                      What does my heart need? My first thought is to be around some other thoroughly transformed and self-realized people. And secondly a place of peace and quiet
                                      Message 18 of 21 , Dec 5, 2006
                                      • 0 Attachment
                                        What does my heart need? My first thought is to be around some other
                                        thoroughly transformed and self-realized people. And secondly a place
                                        of peace and quiet and understanding, where the pure in mind and heart
                                        can come and unburden themselves from the cares of the world and its
                                        many people who lack understanding of their highly-sensitive and
                                        sometimes erratic nature. And wherein they may then begin to genuinely
                                        rediscover themselves and flower into fullness of human being and Love.

                                        Bob M.
                                        ___________________________________________

                                        --- In Soar_Like_An_Eagle_2@yahoogroups.com, "proustienne2001"
                                        <proustienne2001@...> wrote:
                                        >
                                        > Bob, what does your heart need?
                                        > Peter
                                      • proustienne2001
                                        What you say is true, Ken. It is all too easy to stuff our minds with more and more. I wonder if this might in part be an attempt to prevent us from feeling
                                        Message 19 of 21 , Dec 5, 2006
                                        • 0 Attachment
                                          What you say is true, Ken. It is all too easy to stuff our minds with
                                          more and more. I wonder if this might in part be an attempt to
                                          prevent us from feeling anything. We can drug and numb ourselves with
                                          knowledge. We become greedy and addicted to acquiring more and more,
                                          be it knowledge or something else. Perhaps filling our minds prevents
                                          us from loving. Our heads might be full but our hearts might be
                                          empty. Sometimes all this knowledge is a way of avoiding being with
                                          ourselves and others in real intimacy. Perhaps we need to get more in
                                          contact with our hearts. I am reminded of Lao Tzu when he says,to
                                          attain knowledge, add things every day. To attain wisdom, remove
                                          things every day.
                                          Peter


                                          --- In Soar_Like_An_Eagle_2@yahoogroups.com, "cosmic_hunter56"
                                          <cosmic_hunter56@...> wrote:
                                          >
                                          > Many of us are well read, Peter--our minds are full, but our hearts
                                          > remain hungry. Ken
                                          >
                                          > --- In Soar_Like_An_Eagle_2@yahoogroups.com, "proustienne2001"
                                          > <proustienne2001@> wrote:
                                          > >
                                          > > Bob, I like the Kierkegaard quote. Which of his books is it from?
                                          I
                                          > > had a friend who died a couple of years ago, his favorite
                                          > philosopher
                                          > > was Kierkegaard. And this man had read everything-philosophy,
                                          > > mathematics, theology.
                                          > > I like this from Kierkegaard:Boredom is the root of all evil -
                                          the
                                          > > despairing refusal to be oneself.
                                          > > Peter
                                          > > --- In Soar_Like_An_Eagle_2@yahoogroups.com, "Bob M."
                                          > > <new_trail_blazer@> wrote:
                                          > > >
                                          > > > No, I'd say Krishnamurti and Nietzsche were definitely my
                                          biggest
                                          > > > influences, Peter. And I'd prefer to think that the personality
                                          > is
                                          > > > only ripe when a man has gone beyond good and evil. And it's
                                          > > terribly
                                          > > > lonely over there as Kierkegaard and some others knew full well
                                          > > > indeed.
                                          > > >
                                          > > > And more and more am I realizing this deep truth which is
                                          > reflected
                                          > > > well in the following line of Kahlil Gibran from his book 'The
                                          > > Broken
                                          > > > Wings', along too with the sad fact that few there be that ever
                                          > get
                                          > > > there or ripen.
                                          > > >
                                          > > > "In that year (18 years of age) I was reborn and unless a man
                                          is
                                          > > born
                                          > > > again his life will remain like a blank sheet in the book of
                                          > > > existence. In that year, I saw the angels of Heaven looking at
                                          me
                                          > > > through the eyes of a beautiful woman. I also saw the devils of
                                          > > hell
                                          > > > raging in the heart of an evil man. He who does not see the
                                          > angels
                                          > > > and devils in the beauty and malice of life will be far removed
                                          > > from
                                          > > > knowledge, and his spirit will be empty of affection." (Kahlil
                                          G.)
                                          > > >
                                          > > > "This is what is sad when one contemplates human life, that so
                                          > many
                                          > > > live out their lives in quiet lostness . . . they live, as it
                                          > were,
                                          > > > away from themselves and vanish like shadows. (Soren K.)
                                          > > >
                                          > > > Bob M.
                                          > > > ________________________________________________
                                          > > >
                                          > > > --- In Soar_Like_An_Eagle_2@yahoogroups.com, "proustienne2001"
                                          > > > <proustienne2001@> wrote:
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > > Bob, I have enjoyed the references to Kierkegaard you have
                                          made
                                          > > in
                                          > > > > your recent posts. Has he been a big influence on your
                                          > thinking?
                                          > > > > Kierkegaard writes that the personality is only ripe when a
                                          > man
                                          > > > has
                                          > > > > made the truth his own.
                                          > > > > Peter
                                          > > >
                                          > >
                                          >
                                        • cosmic_hunter56
                                          Nice quote, Peter. Intellectual speculation can be used as an escape as well. Apparently, the most difficult thing for us to do (spiritually) is get ourselves
                                          Message 20 of 21 , Dec 6, 2006
                                          • 0 Attachment
                                            Nice quote, Peter. Intellectual speculation can be used as an escape
                                            as well. Apparently, the most difficult thing for us to do
                                            (spiritually) is get ourselves out of own way. Salvation finally
                                            comes when we accept, agree, and allow the truth to make us whole
                                            again. Ken

                                            --- In Soar_Like_An_Eagle_2@yahoogroups.com, "proustienne2001"
                                            <proustienne2001@...> wrote:
                                            >
                                            > What you say is true, Ken. It is all too easy to stuff our minds
                                            with
                                            > more and more. I wonder if this might in part be an attempt to
                                            > prevent us from feeling anything. We can drug and numb ourselves
                                            with
                                            > knowledge. We become greedy and addicted to acquiring more and
                                            more,
                                            > be it knowledge or something else. Perhaps filling our minds
                                            prevents
                                            > us from loving. Our heads might be full but our hearts might be
                                            > empty. Sometimes all this knowledge is a way of avoiding being with
                                            > ourselves and others in real intimacy. Perhaps we need to get more
                                            in
                                            > contact with our hearts. I am reminded of Lao Tzu when he says,to
                                            > attain knowledge, add things every day. To attain wisdom, remove
                                            > things every day.
                                            > Peter
                                            >
                                            >
                                            > --- In Soar_Like_An_Eagle_2@yahoogroups.com, "cosmic_hunter56"
                                            > <cosmic_hunter56@> wrote:
                                            > >
                                            > > Many of us are well read, Peter--our minds are full, but our
                                            hearts
                                            > > remain hungry. Ken
                                            > >
                                            > > --- In Soar_Like_An_Eagle_2@yahoogroups.com, "proustienne2001"
                                            > > <proustienne2001@> wrote:
                                            > > >
                                            > > > Bob, I like the Kierkegaard quote. Which of his books is it
                                            from?
                                            > I
                                            > > > had a friend who died a couple of years ago, his favorite
                                            > > philosopher
                                            > > > was Kierkegaard. And this man had read everything-philosophy,
                                            > > > mathematics, theology.
                                            > > > I like this from Kierkegaard:Boredom is the root of all evil -
                                            > the
                                            > > > despairing refusal to be oneself.
                                            > > > Peter
                                            > > > --- In Soar_Like_An_Eagle_2@yahoogroups.com, "Bob M."
                                            > > > <new_trail_blazer@> wrote:
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > > No, I'd say Krishnamurti and Nietzsche were definitely my
                                            > biggest
                                            > > > > influences, Peter. And I'd prefer to think that the
                                            personality
                                            > > is
                                            > > > > only ripe when a man has gone beyond good and evil. And it's
                                            > > > terribly
                                            > > > > lonely over there as Kierkegaard and some others knew full
                                            well
                                            > > > > indeed.
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > > And more and more am I realizing this deep truth which is
                                            > > reflected
                                            > > > > well in the following line of Kahlil Gibran from his
                                            book 'The
                                            > > > Broken
                                            > > > > Wings', along too with the sad fact that few there be that
                                            ever
                                            > > get
                                            > > > > there or ripen.
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > > "In that year (18 years of age) I was reborn and unless a man
                                            > is
                                            > > > born
                                            > > > > again his life will remain like a blank sheet in the book of
                                            > > > > existence. In that year, I saw the angels of Heaven looking
                                            at
                                            > me
                                            > > > > through the eyes of a beautiful woman. I also saw the devils
                                            of
                                            > > > hell
                                            > > > > raging in the heart of an evil man. He who does not see the
                                            > > angels
                                            > > > > and devils in the beauty and malice of life will be far
                                            removed
                                            > > > from
                                            > > > > knowledge, and his spirit will be empty of affection."
                                            (Kahlil
                                            > G.)
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > > "This is what is sad when one contemplates human life, that
                                            so
                                            > > many
                                            > > > > live out their lives in quiet lostness . . . they live, as it
                                            > > were,
                                            > > > > away from themselves and vanish like shadows. (Soren K.)
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > > Bob M.
                                            > > > > ________________________________________________
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > > --- In
                                            Soar_Like_An_Eagle_2@yahoogroups.com, "proustienne2001"
                                            > > > > <proustienne2001@> wrote:
                                            > > > > >
                                            > > > > > Bob, I have enjoyed the references to Kierkegaard you have
                                            > made
                                            > > > in
                                            > > > > > your recent posts. Has he been a big influence on your
                                            > > thinking?
                                            > > > > > Kierkegaard writes that the personality is only ripe when
                                            a
                                            > > man
                                            > > > > has
                                            > > > > > made the truth his own.
                                            > > > > > Peter
                                            > > > >
                                            > > >
                                            > >
                                            >
                                          Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.