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Re: "He had a dog.....it was more alive than its master."

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  • proustienne2001
    Dear Bob: How very true. Man is forever trying to fill up the empty spaces of self. Looking for more and more to fill the void. At least the dog in
    Message 1 of 5 , Nov 9, 2006
      Dear Bob:
      How very true. Man is forever trying to fill up the empty spaces of
      self. Looking for more and more to fill the void. At least the dog in
      Krishnamurti's piece knows itself. He is happy in his own skin under
      God. Man creates his own prisons. He will not give himself a chance
      to be free. He will not allow himself breathing space.

      Peter
      ps. Marcel is my nom de plume.
      --- In Soar_Like_An_Eagle_2@yahoogroups.com, "Bob M."
      <new_trail_blazer@...> wrote:
      >
      > He was a big man, heavily built, with large hands. He must have
      been
      > a very rich man. He collected modern pictures and was rather proud
      of
      > his collection which the critics had said was very good. As he told
      > you this you could see the light of pride in his eyes. He had a
      dog,
      > big, active and full of play; it was more alive than its master. It
      > wanted to be out in the grass among the dunes, racing against the
      > wind, but it sat obediently where its master had told it to sit,
      and
      > soon it went to sleep from boredom.
      >
      > Possessions possess us more than we possess them. The castle, the
      > house, the pictures, the books, the knowledge, they become far more
      > vital, far more important, than the human being. He said he had
      read
      > a great deal, and you could see from the books in the library that
      he
      > had all the latest authors. He spoke about spiritual mysticism and
      > the craze for drugs that was sweeping over the land. He was a
      rich,
      > successful man, and behind him was emptyness and the shallowness
      that
      > can never be filled by books, by pictures, or by the knowledge of
      the
      > trade.
      >
      > The sadness of life is this - the emptyness that we try to fill
      with
      > every conceivable trick of the mind. But that emptiness remains.
      Its
      > sadness is the vain effort to possess. From this attempt comes
      > domination and the assertion of the me, with its empty words and
      rich
      > memories of things that are gone and never will come back. It is
      this
      > emptyness and loneliness that isolating thought breeds and keeps
      > nourished by the knowledge it has created.
      >
      > It is this sadness of vain effort that is destroying man. His
      thought
      > is not so good as the computer, and he has only the instrument of
      > thought with which to meet the problems of life, so he is destroyed
      > by them. It is this sadness of wasted life which probably he will
      be
      > aware of only at the moment of his death - and then it will be too
      > late.
      >
      > So the possessions, the character, the achievements, the
      domesticated
      > wife, become terribly important, and this sadness drives away love.
      > Either you have one or the other; you cannot have both. One breeds
      > cynicism and bitterness which are the only fruit of man; the other
      > lies beyond all woods and hills.
      >
      > (J. Krishnamurti - 'The Only Revolution")
      >
      > Bob M.
      >
    • Bob M.
      Good Morning Marcel, Yes, but is the dog truly free here? Free to fully be himself? To run, to roam, to mate, to propagate? Clearly it seems, and more often
      Message 2 of 5 , Nov 10, 2006
        Good Morning Marcel,

        Yes, but is the dog truly free here? Free to fully be himself? To
        run, to roam, to mate, to propagate? Clearly it seems, and more often
        than not, that we possess pets and other animals for selfish reasons
        and have no true concern for their instincts, desires, longings, and
        overall well-being. Rather we often and quickly fix them up to suite
        our own quite ignorant and discompassionate standards of the way
        things should be. We often thoughtlessly nueter, castrate, declaw,
        crop ears, bob tails, groom to 'fit', drug, etc. these poor
        creatures, without ever placing ourselves in their own shoes, so to
        speak. And clearly I see many dogs, especially, that are quite
        neurotic, and on up the scale to being near totally mad, in their
        manners and behaviors, most of this developed in them from mere
        association with like types of (in?)human 'owners'. So in trying to
        fill the void in ourselves selfishly with pets and animals, more
        often than not, we wind up destroying them in the process, which
        always comes home to roost, or bite us in the ass, so to speak. And I
        say all these things with my own past experiences, failings, and
        selfish attitudes and behaviors (and at times rather sick) regarding
        these matters fully and clearly in mind.

        Bob M.
        ____________________________________________________

        --- In Soar_Like_An_Eagle_2@yahoogroups.com, "proustienne2001"
        <proustienne2001@...> wrote:
        >
        > Dear Bob:
        > How very true. Man is forever trying to fill up the empty spaces of
        > self. Looking for more and more to fill the void. At least the dog
        in
        > Krishnamurti's piece knows itself. He is happy in his own skin
        under
        > God. Man creates his own prisons. He will not give himself a chance
        > to be free. He will not allow himself breathing space.
        >
        > Peter
        > ps. Marcel is my nom de plume.
      • proustienne2001
        Dear Bob: Yes, our friend the hound is both free and not free. Not free in that he is at the mercy of whatever whim of his master. But free in the sense that
        Message 3 of 5 , Nov 11, 2006
          Dear Bob:
          Yes, our friend the hound is both free and not free. Not free in that he is
          at the mercy of whatever whim of his master. But free in the sense
          that he is not a prisoner to his own extravagent demands, as
          his 'master' so often is. Mr. Dog is more in tune with nature. He has
          wholly natural needs. His master Mr. Man, is stuffed to bursting point
          with false needs. He is barely able to breathe or think clearly.

          Of course there are some lovely human beings and they have dogs
          thankfully free of neurosis.

          We could all learn some Holy Simplicity from a wise dog.

          Best wishes
          Peter


          --- In Soar_Like_An_Eagle_2@yahoogroups.com, "Bob M."
          <new_trail_blazer@...> wrote:
          >
          > Good Morning Marcel,
          >
          > Yes, but is the dog truly free here? Free to fully be himself? To
          > run, to roam, to mate, to propagate? Clearly it seems, and more often
          > than not, that we possess pets and other animals for selfish reasons
          > and have no true concern for their instincts, desires, longings, and
          > overall well-being. Rather we often and quickly fix them up to suite
          > our own quite ignorant and discompassionate standards of the way
          > things should be. We often thoughtlessly nueter, castrate, declaw,
          > crop ears, bob tails, groom to 'fit', drug, etc. these poor
          > creatures, without ever placing ourselves in their own shoes, so to
          > speak. And clearly I see many dogs, especially, that are quite
          > neurotic, and on up the scale to being near totally mad, in their
          > manners and behaviors, most of this developed in them from mere
          > association with like types of (in?)human 'owners'. So in trying to
          > fill the void in ourselves selfishly with pets and animals, more
          > often than not, we wind up destroying them in the process, which
          > always comes home to roost, or bite us in the ass, so to speak. And
          I
          > say all these things with my own past experiences, failings, and
          > selfish attitudes and behaviors (and at times rather sick) regarding
          > these matters fully and clearly in mind.
          >
          > Bob M.
          > ____________________________________________________
          >
          > --- In Soar_Like_An_Eagle_2@yahoogroups.com, "proustienne2001"
          > <proustienne2001@> wrote:
          > >
          > > Dear Bob:
          > > How very true. Man is forever trying to fill up the empty spaces of
          > > self. Looking for more and more to fill the void. At least the dog
          > in
          > > Krishnamurti's piece knows itself. He is happy in his own skin
          > under
          > > God. Man creates his own prisons. He will not give himself a
          chance
          > > to be free. He will not allow himself breathing space.
          > >
          > > Peter
          > > ps. Marcel is my nom de plume.
          >
        • Bob M.
          Hi Marcel, Actually Marcel, I believe that a man who is fully above it all (free as a bird - an Eagle bird) will own no pets or animals. I was watching Eckhart
          Message 4 of 5 , Nov 11, 2006
            Hi Marcel,

            Actually Marcel, I believe that a man who is fully above it all (free
            as a bird - an Eagle bird) will own no pets or animals. I was
            watching Eckhart Tolle, via DVD, speaking at the Findhorn Retreat
            Center in Scotland again last evening. He muses, 'how can God allow a
            whole (human) species to become mentally ill'? That the entire human
            species is therefore collectively insane, which is my view also, I
            think it would then hold too that this would also be the case with
            all domesticated animals. How can it not be so? So, as far as saying
            there are people and animals 'free of neurosis', I would disagree.
            Relatively or considerably free perhaps, but still far from being as
            free-spirited and fully alive as are, lets say, the squirrels that
            joyfully roam and frolic around in my neighborhood. And certainly man
            stuffs himself with false needs all right, as you say, but his real
            problem is that he does not yet know himself, nor is he willing to
            become rigorously self-honest, without which there'll be no self-
            knowing. And yet getting back to Mr. Tolle, he seems quite blind (or
            rather one-eyed - while leading the blind), as was too the case with
            J. Krishnamurti and many other 'spiritual teachers', to the simple
            fact that without full and complete (old-time) *repentance* and a
            total transformation and rebuilding of one's being, both individually
            and collectively, there'll be no true brotherhood, companionship, or
            freedom of the spirit for man or 'domesticated' animals either. Man's
            total loss of the moral compass is the root of the gross darkness,
            the collective and universal neurosis or insanity.

            http://www.barrylong.org/statements/terrorism.shtml

            "The perfect man is pure spirit." Lao Tzu

            "The perfect dog is pure spirit." Bob M.

            "Unless a person is born again (and *re-formed again*) his life will
            be but a blank page in the book of existence." Kahlil Gibran

            "And so long as you haven't experienced this: to die and to *grow*,
            you are only a troubled guest on the dark earth." J. W. Goethe

            Surely man can learn some 'Holy Simplicity' from a wise dog, as you
            say Marcel, but ever better yet if he were to learn some of this from
            (his) wise children. That is before he fully destroys them (which is
            often the case), with all his fallen ways and dead-end ideas, just as
            he does his pets and animals. Mr. Tolle also seems to come up short
            in regards to this simple fact or realization.

            Step 4 of 12: Made a searching and fearless moral inventory of
            oueselves.

            Bob M.
            ___________________________________________________

            --- In Soar_Like_An_Eagle_2@yahoogroups.com, "proustienne2001"
            <proustienne2001@...> wrote:
            >
            >
            > Dear Bob:
            > Yes, our friend the hound is both free and not free. Not free in
            that he is
            > at the mercy of whatever whim of his master. But free in the sense
            > that he is not a prisoner to his own extravagent demands, as
            > his 'master' so often is. Mr. Dog is more in tune with nature. He
            has
            > wholly natural needs. His master Mr. Man, is stuffed to bursting
            point
            > with false needs. He is barely able to breathe or think clearly.
            >
            > Of course there are some lovely human beings and they have dogs
            > thankfully free of neurosis.
            >
            > We could all learn some Holy Simplicity from a wise dog.
            >
            > Best wishes
            > Peter
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