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Krishnamurti

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  • peterquinnn
    As Krishnamurti said, the whole trouble with mankind is a result of the separation between subject and object. Peter
    Message 1 of 7 , Oct 9, 2006
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      As Krishnamurti said, the whole trouble with mankind is a result of
      the separation between subject and object.
      Peter
    • Bob M.
      Or simply the incapacity to LOVE. Bob M.
      Message 2 of 7 , Oct 10, 2006
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        Or simply the incapacity to LOVE.

        Bob M.
        _______________________________________________

        --- In Soar_Like_An_Eagle_2@yahoogroups.com, peterquinnn <no_reply@...>
        wrote:
        >
        > As Krishnamurti said, the whole trouble with mankind is a result of
        > the separation between subject and object.
        > Peter
        >
      • Bob M.
        I feel it s just some of K s mumbo-jumbo that he fell into in his latter days, especially, Peter. His lacking of self- responsibility and living experiences
        Message 3 of 7 , Nov 26, 2007
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          I feel it's just some of K's 'mumbo-jumbo'
          that he fell into in his latter days,
          especially, Peter. His lacking of self-
          responsibility and living experiences
          in the big and real world, along with his
          thick (& big) head caused him to get hung
          up in long-winded and empty explanations
          regarding the difference between self-will
          and the greater will, and in doing so he
          created a nightmare out of what essentially
          began as a pretty sound 'teaching package',
          but eventually became primarily a crutch
          for unregenerates. Personally I find that
          I must continue to fully awaken and be
          constantly and conscientiously observing
          and 'feeling' all of my words, thoughts,
          and deeds, and how there are, or are not,
          working in 'relationship' with life.
          Likewise I must listen carefully to
          'feedback' from others, as God or Life does
          in fact speak and act through everyone, be
          they regenerates or unregenerates. Likewise
          one too can get vital direction in life from
          others, and again regardless of who they may
          be. So a state of keenly alert awareness
          (both inner and outer) must be maintained
          along with the freedom and the courage to
          move with the answers and direction one
          might feel or sense are 'blowing in the wind',
          so to speak. Enjoy your days, Peter.

          Bob M.
          __________________________________________________

          --- In Soar_Like_An_Eagle_2@yahoogroups.com, "proustienne2001"
          <proustienne2001@...> wrote:
          >
          > Bob, I think this is very true: "If you begin to
          > understand what you are without trying to change
          > it, then what you are undergoes a transformation."
          >
          > J. Krishnamurti
          >
        • Bob M.
          Balance is the key here, Peter. Balance between being dead serious and gay and frivolous, let s say here. Wrong humor (evasive or defensive in most cases),
          Message 4 of 7 , Nov 29, 2007
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            Balance is the key here, Peter. Balance between
            being dead serious and gay and frivolous, let's
            say here. Wrong humor (evasive or defensive in
            most cases), which I feel Krishnaurti was often
            guilty of, is not only spiritually non-productive,
            but it's actually counter-productive in that it
            offers security and a feeling of 'ok-ness' to the
            weak and the unregenerate. Having examined the
            meaning of unregenerate (and decadent) just earlier
            this this am, I find the more proper terminology
            would be to say the 'irreparably unregenerate'.

            I too, like Cardinal Newman, am fully aware that
            the large majority of humanity, and through no
            fault of their own, are irreparably unregenerate,
            'irretrievably damned' - in Newman's (harsher?)
            terms, or totally incapable of ever achieving,
            or returning to, the state of Love, or perfect
            human centeredness, one might too say.

            And this is the main reason I'm being cautious
            so far as starting a spiritual fellowship, as
            it's quite clear to me that they all quickly fall
            into the darkness, since these unfortunate kinds
            quickly overwhelm the enterprise with negativity,
            in the context of them being fixed in the 'intellect',
            rather than being at all sensitive to feelings,
            and also and thereby their subliminally eliciting
            sympathy, which very quickly tears things down.

            Bob M.
            __________________________________________________



            --- In Soar_Like_An_Eagle_2@yahoogroups.com, "proustienne2001"
            <proustienne2001@...> wrote:
            >
            > Bob, you wrote: >Personally I find that
            > >I must continue to fully awaken and be
            > >constantly and conscientiously observing
            > >and 'feeling' all of my words, thoughts,
            > >and deeds, and how there are, or are not,
            > >working in 'relationship' with life.
            >
            > I fully agree. What I would add, however,
            > is that I think it is most important to
            > engage in the process of becoming more
            > fully aware in a playful manner, otherwise
            > we only reinforce the original harsh and
            > demanding relationship with reality. Play
            > is something one learns in childhood. Sadly,
            > some children, for various reason never
            > experience play, and reach 'adulthood' with
            > a negative and demanding relationship with
            > reality.
            >
            > Peter
            > _________________________________________
          • Bob M.
            Yes Peter, but a quiet mind can only be reached by experiencing anger, agitation, impatience, over- reactiveness, etc. And it must become fully awake to all
            Message 5 of 7 , Nov 30, 2007
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              Yes Peter, but a 'quiet mind' can only be reached by
              experiencing anger, agitation, impatience, over-
              reactiveness, etc. And it must become fully awake
              to all these things and then better and better
              'feel out' these things and find the root cause of
              them. Likewise the term 'judgmental' is so often
              used in a negative sense, and primarily by the weak
              and the deceitful. And the need to be keenly
              'observational' or judgmental (of both oneself and
              others) is too very vital for attaining that quiet
              mind. Then too our natural innate human instincts
              are seldom considered, examined, and discussed either,
              Peter. And personally, due the natural evolutionary
              'fall' that's necessary for the making of man, I
              feel that the human species has become totally out
              of touch with them, making man presently but a
              shadow of what he could and should really be, and
              will eventually someday become.

              There are many 'meditation' techniques that focus
              on creating a quiet or a still mind, Peter. But I
              feel this only leads to a dull mind, and perhaps
              even a further damaged mind, in some cases.
              Krishnamurti was very aware of this and warned
              others of it.

              So total self-discovery or self-realization (I tend
              to prefer the latter, which I think was coined or at
              least popularized by Paramahansa Yogananda) must be
              our goal, and I find in every sense one must literally
              put himself on the 'rack' and likewise stretch things
              to their absolute limit, and often many times, if he's
              to be successful at this greatest of human challenges.

              Let's face it, Peter, we've all been taught from our
              very earliest days to be everything but 'true to our
              own selves' (our own nature), or to be/become fully
              human - fully alive. Therefore we could thus say the
              species, and much of its actions and behaviors, is
              collectively a near total fraud. And in order to
              prevent its falling into complete self-extinction,
              some us must free oueselves from the wall-to-wall
              human decay and degeneracy and become Lights unto
              other potential free-spirits, who will then go on to
              be the new or the finished race, so to speak.

              Bob M.
              ________________________________________________


              --- In Soar_Like_An_Eagle_2@yahoogroups.com, "proustienne2001"
              <proustienne2001@...> wrote:
              >
              > Bob, I agree about returning to a state of love.
              > What I would say however is that a state of love
              > can only be accessed through the presence of a
              > quiet mind. A mind that is agitated, judgmental,
              > angry, impatient or otherwise reactive, remains
              > forever in that closed loop. It is only by stopping
              > all the learnt, habitual reactivity that the mind
              > becomes quiet and sensitive and able to listen to
              > the heart.
              >
              > best wishes
              >
              > Peter
              > ___________________________________________________
            • Bob M.
              The effects which follow too constant and intense a concentration upon evil are always disastrous. Those who crusade, not for God in themselves, but
              Message 6 of 7 , Dec 3, 2007
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                The effects which follow too constant and
                intense a concentration upon evil are always
                disastrous. Those who crusade, not 'for' God
                in themselves, but 'against' the devil in others,
                never succeed in making the world better, but
                leave it either as it was, or sometimes even
                perceptibly worse than it was, before the crusade
                began. By thinking primarily of evil we tend,
                however excellent our intentions, to create
                occasions for evil to manifest itself.

                No man can concentrate his attention upon
                evil, or even upon the idea of evil, and remain
                unaffected. To be more 'against' the devil than
                'for' God is exceedingly dangerous. Every crusader
                is apt to go mad. He is haunted by the wickedness
                which he attributes to his enemies; it becomes
                in some sort a part of him.

                (Aldous Huxley - 'The Devils of Loudon')

                Bob M.
                _______________________________________________________

                --- In Soar_Like_An_Eagle_2@yahoogroups.com, "proustienne2001"
                <proustienne2001@...> wrote:
                >
                > Bob, I agree about returning to a state of love.
                > What I would say however is that a state of love
                > can only be accessed through the presence of a
                > quiet mind. A mind that is agitated, judgemental,
                > angry, impatient or otherwise reactive, remains
                > forever in that closed loop. It is only by stopping
                > all the learnt, habitual reactivity that the mind
                > becomes quiet and sensitive and able to listen to
                > the heart.
                >
                > best wishes
                >
                > Peter
              • Bob M.
                Yes Peter, I ran across those quotes during my weekend study. Lately I spend much time at home in study. Although during the day I spend my time out in life
                Message 7 of 7 , Dec 4, 2007
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                  Yes Peter, I ran across those quotes during
                  my weekend study. Lately I spend much time
                  at home in study. Although during the day
                  I spend my time out in life generally bussing
                  between libraries, and using the internet. I
                  related those observations of Huxley's with
                  the point you were trying to make. I'm
                  convinced my frustrations stem from being
                  fully aware that I'm presently not nearly
                  as spiritually productive as I am capable of
                  being.

                  Most of yesterday I convinced myself
                  that I would go to a particular AA meeting
                  (in the Church of my youth) last evening,
                  yet when the time to go came I stayed home.
                  Nothing brings me more joy and a sense of
                  real purpose in life than sharing the gift
                  I've been blessed with with others, yet
                  there's so much downright non-understanding,
                  blindness, and foolishness not only in AA,
                  but in all congregations of people. Clearly
                  they are all simply a thing of the 'blind
                  leading the blind' so far as I'm concerned.

                  Another thing that troubles me is that I feel
                  my 3rd wife of 20 years is not on the same page
                  as I am. Though she's an exceptionally fine
                  woman in many, many respects, she seems often
                  to be very much a willing and eager participant
                  in the ways and things of the world.

                  I've been fully in the 'new' many, many times
                  Peter, and over many years, yet many, many
                  times it too quietly slipped away. There are
                  still times, and often was the case in the past,
                  when I wish a 'divine accident', like I strongly
                  think happened with Merton when he too became
                  irreparably stuck in the fallen human condition,
                  came upon me and ended it all. Likewise I often
                  think of the line of Vivekananda that I picked
                  up a long time ago and which is also very true
                  of myself: " This nervous sort of body is just
                  an instrument to play fine music at times and
                  at times to moan in the darkness.

                  So with this I shall plunder along looking
                  for my rightful direction. At least now that
                  I'm fully retired I have no worldly respon-
                  sibilites to drag me down and off course, as
                  was often the case in the past. This AM as
                  I was walking from the post office to the
                  library, a man handed me two Watchtower
                  booklets. I thanked him and put them in
                  my shoulder bag, and thought to myself,
                  yea, right on, but just when is this new
                  and wonderful world actually going to be
                  set up, and for real, upon this wretched
                  earth? Years ago I went to several JW meetings,
                  as likewise I've gone to many, many churches.
                  I like their general outlook on things and
                  their m.o., but once again, as much as I hate
                  to become negative here, the inherent monkey-
                  business, or downright self-centeredness
                  and worldliness, in ALL organizations is too
                  much for me to bear.

                  Well that's about all I have for now, Peter.
                  Thanks for your input, and do take care.

                  Bob M.
                  _________________________________________________

                  --- In Soar_Like_An_Eagle_2@yahoogroups.com, "proustienne2001"
                  <proustienne2001@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Bob, I couldn't agree more. We become what
                  > we pay attention to. Hence the importance of
                  > stopping the habitual thought and behavior
                  > patterns. Fixity of thought and emotion is
                  > dangerous. Thought and feeling need to move
                  > in and through us. Otherwise be become stuck,
                  > and never change. Until we stop the habitual,
                  > it is impossible for the new to enter.
                  >
                  > Peter
                  > ______________________________________________
                  >
                  > --- In Soar_Like_An_Eagle_2@yahoogroups.com, "Bob M."
                  > <new_trail_blazer@> wrote:
                  > >
                  > > The effects which follow too constant and
                  > > intense a concentration upon evil are always
                  > > disastrous. Those who crusade, not 'for' God
                  > > in themselves, but 'against' the devil in others,
                  > > never succeed in making the world better, but
                  > > leave it either as it was, or sometimes even
                  > > perceptibly worse than it was, before the crusade
                  > > began. By thinking primarily of evil we tend,
                  > > however excellent our intentions, to create
                  > > occasions for evil to manifest itself.
                  > >
                  > > No man can concentrate his attention upon
                  > > evil, or even upon the idea of evil, and remain
                  > > unaffected. To be more 'against' the devil than
                  > > 'for' God is exceedingly dangerous. Every crusader
                  > > is apt to go mad. He is haunted by the wickedness
                  > > which he attributes to his enemies; it becomes
                  > > in some sort a part of him.
                  > >
                  > > (Aldous Huxley - 'The Devils of Loudon')
                  > >
                  > > Bob M.
                  > > _______________________________________________________
                  >
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