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The Basic Message....Proofs for God's right of Worship

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  • honeybaby2012
    II. THE BASIC MESSAGE OF ISLAM The basic message of Islam is the same message of all the previous prophets: worship God alone and avoid worshipping anything
    Message 1 of 24 , Feb 21, 2004
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      II. THE BASIC MESSAGE OF ISLAM

      The basic message of Islam is the same message of all the previous
      prophets: worship God alone and avoid worshipping anything besides
      Him, whether it is a person, place or thing, directly or indirectly.
      This basic principle of Monotheism is contained in the opening
      chapter of the Quran, known as Soorat Al-Faatihah, verse 4: "You
      alone we worship and from you alone we do seek help."

      In chp 4: verse 37, God also said:
      Worship Allah and do not associate partners with Him.

      Muhammad, the last Prophet (mercy and peace of God be upon him) is
      reported to have said: "Anyone who says: There is no god worthy of
      worship but Allah, and dies holding that belief will be granted
      paradise.


      II. PROOFS FOR GOD'S RIGHT OF WORSHIP

      Only God should be worshipped because He is the Creator and
      sustainer of all that exists. This Great Universe and everything
      that is in it cannot be the product of chance, and could not have
      created itself. Signs testifying that God is the only Creator can be
      seen throughout the earth and in the very soul of each person. God
      said in the Qur'an:

      Quran chp 14: verses 32-34
      It is Allah who Ceated the Sky and the Earth, and sent down from the
      sky water by which He brought forth fruits for your sustenance. He
      subjected for you the Ships to sail upon the Sea at His command, and
      He subjected for you the Rivers. And He subjected for you the Sun
      and Moon in continuous cycles, and He subjected for you the Night
      and Day. And He gave you all you asked Him for.

      In the Qur'an, God mentions Prophet Abraham's search for truth as an
      example of how those who follow God's signs will be rightly guided
      to the worship of Him alone; God said:
      Quarn chp 6: verses 75-79
      In this way we showed Abraham the kingdom of the heavens and the
      earth so that he would have faith with understanding and certainty.
      When the night covered him with darkness, he saw a star and
      said: `This is my Lord', but when it set, he said: `I don't like
      those that set.' When he saw the moon rising up, he said: `This is
      my Lord', but when it set, he said: `Unless my Lord guides me, I
      will certainly be among the people who went astray.' When he saw the
      sun rising up he said: `This is my Lord, this is the greatest of
      all.' But when it set, he said: `O my people! I am indeed free from
      what you join as partners with Allah.
      Verily, I have turned my face towards Allah who created the heavens
      and the earth and I reject those who associate partners with Allah
      (in worship).

      Actually, in the Qur'an God calls people to continuously look at the
      Universe, as this will
      affirm the divine truth of His existence, His greatness and that He
      alone should be worshipped. God alone deserves our worship because
      only He can answer our prayers. God says in the Qur'an:

      Quarn chp 40: verses 60.
      "And your Lord says: Call on Me and I will answer your prayer."

      Hence, if a human being prays to an idol and his prayers are
      answered, it is not the idol which actually answered his prayers but
      God. Similarly, prayers to Jesus Christ, Buddha, Krishna, Saint
      Christopher, Saint Jude or to Prophet Muhammad, are not answered by
      them, but are answered by God. Consequently, prayer is an act of
      worship which should be directed to God alone.

      Indeed, prophets who are worshipped besides Him did not tell people
      to worship them. Instead, the prophets warned their people against
      doing just that. For example, Islam teaches that Prophet Jesus
      (mercy and peace of God be upon him) was a human being who was
      created by God in a miraculous way.

      He was born of a mother, Mary, without a father and he worshipped
      God. He was not God, nor was he the son of God. He was neither one
      of three manifestations of God as Christians say, nor was a son born
      out of wedlock as the Jews say.

      He told his people (the tribes of Israel) to worship God alone. He
      did not tell people to worship either himself or his mother.
      Furthermore, Prophet Jesus (mercy and peace of God be upon him) did
      not worship himself when he worshipped, rather he worshipped God.

      However, those who claim to be the followers of Jesus Christ today
      worship Jesus himself, claiming that he is God, and others also
      worship his mother calling her `the mother of God.'! God says in the
      Qur'an that He will ask Prophet Jesus (mercy and peace of God be
      upon him) on the Day of Judgment:

      Quarn chp 5: verses 116-117.
      O Jesus, son of Mary! Did you tell people: Take me and my mother as
      gods besides Allah? Then he will say: Glory to you, I could never
      say what I had no right to say. If I had said it, You would have
      known it, You know what is within myself, but I do not know what is
      within Yourself. Verily, You alone are the Knower of the unseen. I
      did not say to them except what You commanded me; to worship Allah,
      my Lord and your Lord, and I was a witness over them as long as I
      was among them, but when You raised me up, You were the observer
      over them, and You are the witness over all things.

      God emphasizes in the Qur'an that Prophet Jesus (mercy and peace of
      God be upon him) was neither killed nor crucified, but God raised
      him up into the heavens in body and spirit and he will be returned
      to the earth before the end of the world. Prophet Muhammad (mercy
      and peace of God be upon him) stated that Prohet Jesus would rule
      the earth according to the Islamic law, then he will die on earth
      like other human beings and will be buried and resurrected like them
      on the Day of Judgment. Hence, Prophet Jesus who was given life, was
      born from a woman's womb and circumcised, ate, slept, went to the
      toilet, grew up, prayed, and will die, should never be taken as God
      as all these characteristics are not the attributes of God, but of
      His creatures.

      The New Testament states that Jesus Christ taught his followers to
      pray to God saying:

      (Luke 11:2 / Matthew 6:9-10)
      Our Father who art in heaven, hallowed be your name, your kingdom
      come, your will be done on earth as it is in heaven."

      Also, he taught that only those who submit to God would inherit
      paradise:

      (Matthew 7:21)
      None of those who call me `Lord' will enter the Kingdom of God,
      except one who does the will of my Father in heaven.

      Prophet Jesus also pointed out that he himself submitted to the will
      of God:

      (John 5:23)
      I cannot do anything of myself. I judge as I hear and my judgment
      is honest because I am not seeking my own will but the will of Him
      who sent me.

      In fact, there are many reports in the Gospels that show that
      Prophet Jesus made it clear to his followers that he was not God.
      For example, when speaking about the final hour, he said:

      (Mark 13:32)
      No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven,
      not the son, but only the Father.

      Buddha, was a reformer who introduced a number of humanistic
      principles in the Hindu religion practiced in India. He did not
      claim to be God, nor did he suggest to his followers that he be
      worshipped. Yet, today most Buddhists have made him their God and
      they prostrate themselves before idols representing his likeness.
      In brief, from the perspective of the object worshipped, all
      religions today [except Islam] invite people to the worship of
      creation!

      God's attributes point to the fact that God alone deserves worship.
      He is One, without relatives; He has neither father, son, mother nor
      wife. He is the Eternal Absolute. He neither gives birth, nor is He
      born, and there is nothing like Him. He is perfect in His knowledge,
      in His power, in His will, in His mercy and in all His other
      attributes. God is all-powerful and perfect, while human beings are
      weak and imperfect. That is how He
      defined Himself and how all prophets defined Him.

      Another proof that God alone deserves to be worshipped can be found
      within the human soul. Islam teaches that all human beings have
      imprinted on their souls an awareness of God and a natural
      inclination towards worshipping Him alone imprinted on their souls.

      In the Qur'an,God explained that when He created Adam He caused all
      of Adam's descendants to come into existence and then He took a
      pledge from all of them saying:

      Quarn chp 7 verse 172.
      When thy Lord drew forth from the Children of Adam from their loins,
      their descendants, and made them testify concerning themselves,
      (saying): "Am I not your Lord (Who cherishes and sustains you)?"
      They said: "Yea! we do testify!" (this), lest ye should say on the
      Day of Judgment: "Of this we were never mindful."

      God then explained why He had all of humankind bear witness that He
      is their Creator and only true God worthy of worship:

      "That is in case you, humankind, may say on the Day of Resurrection:
      Indeed we were unaware of this."

      God further elaborated on this point saying:

      Quarn chp 7 verse 173
      "It is also in case you may say: It was our ancestors who made
      partners with Allah, and we are only their descendants, will you
      then destroy us for what those liars did?"
      Hence, people who associate partners with God in worship cannot
      claim on that day that they had no idea that Allah was the only god
      who deserved to be worshipped.
      Prophet Muhammad (mercy and peace of God be upon him) reported that
      God said:

      "I created my slaves upon the right religion, but devils made them
      go astray."

      He also said:
      "Each child is born in a state of Islam. Then his parents make him a
      Jew, Christian or a Zoroastrian."

      Thus, Islam is the birthright of every human being, since every
      child is born with a natural belief in the existence of God and an
      inborn inclination towards worshipping Him alone. Just as the child
      submits to the physical laws which God has imposed on the physical
      world, in the same way its soul also submits naturally to the fact
      that God is the only Lord and Creator. But if their parents are
      following a different path, the child is usually not strong or aware
      enough to recognize the truth or resist the will of the parents. In
      such cases, the religion which the child follows is one of custom
      and upbringing.
      But God, the Most Merciful and Compassionate, will not hold him to
      account or punish him for following a false religion before he
      reaches the age of reason and is exposed to the pure message of
      Islam.
    • helen steen
      Ok Honey, Why this site? What relevance has all this dogma got to Existentialism? I don t get it. Helen honeybaby2012 wrote: II. THE
      Message 2 of 24 , Feb 21, 2004
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        Ok Honey,
        Why this site?
        What relevance has all this dogma got to Existentialism?
        I don't get it.
        Helen

        honeybaby2012 <honeybaby2012@...> wrote:
        II. THE BASIC MESSAGE OF ISLAM

        The basic message of Islam is the same message of all the previous
        prophets: worship God alone and avoid worshipping anything besides
        Him, whether it is a person, place or thing, directly or indirectly.
        This basic principle of Monotheism is contained in the opening
        chapter of the Quran, known as Soorat Al-Faatihah, verse 4: "You
        alone we worship and from you alone we do seek help."

        In chp 4: verse 37, God also said:
        Worship Allah and do not associate partners with Him.

        Muhammad, the last Prophet (mercy and peace of God be upon him) is
        reported to have said: "Anyone who says: There is no god worthy of
        worship but Allah, and dies holding that belief will be granted
        paradise.


        II. PROOFS FOR GOD'S RIGHT OF WORSHIP

        Only God should be worshipped because He is the Creator and
        sustainer of all that exists. This Great Universe and everything
        that is in it cannot be the product of chance, and could not have
        created itself. Signs testifying that God is the only Creator can be
        seen throughout the earth and in the very soul of each person. God
        said in the Qur'an:

        Quran chp 14: verses 32-34
        It is Allah who Ceated the Sky and the Earth, and sent down from the
        sky water by which He brought forth fruits for your sustenance. He
        subjected for you the Ships to sail upon the Sea at His command, and
        He subjected for you the Rivers. And He subjected for you the Sun
        and Moon in continuous cycles, and He subjected for you the Night
        and Day. And He gave you all you asked Him for.

        In the Qur'an, God mentions Prophet Abraham's search for truth as an
        example of how those who follow God's signs will be rightly guided
        to the worship of Him alone; God said:
        Quarn chp 6: verses 75-79
        In this way we showed Abraham the kingdom of the heavens and the
        earth so that he would have faith with understanding and certainty.
        When the night covered him with darkness, he saw a star and
        said: `This is my Lord', but when it set, he said: `I don't like
        those that set.' When he saw the moon rising up, he said: `This is
        my Lord', but when it set, he said: `Unless my Lord guides me, I
        will certainly be among the people who went astray.' When he saw the
        sun rising up he said: `This is my Lord, this is the greatest of
        all.' But when it set, he said: `O my people! I am indeed free from
        what you join as partners with Allah.
        Verily, I have turned my face towards Allah who created the heavens
        and the earth and I reject those who associate partners with Allah
        (in worship).

        Actually, in the Qur'an God calls people to continuously look at the
        Universe, as this will
        affirm the divine truth of His existence, His greatness and that He
        alone should be worshipped. God alone deserves our worship because
        only He can answer our prayers. God says in the Qur'an:

        Quarn chp 40: verses 60.
        "And your Lord says: Call on Me and I will answer your prayer."

        Hence, if a human being prays to an idol and his prayers are
        answered, it is not the idol which actually answered his prayers but
        God. Similarly, prayers to Jesus Christ, Buddha, Krishna, Saint
        Christopher, Saint Jude or to Prophet Muhammad, are not answered by
        them, but are answered by God. Consequently, prayer is an act of
        worship which should be directed to God alone.

        Indeed, prophets who are worshipped besides Him did not tell people
        to worship them. Instead, the prophets warned their people against
        doing just that. For example, Islam teaches that Prophet Jesus
        (mercy and peace of God be upon him) was a human being who was
        created by God in a miraculous way.

        He was born of a mother, Mary, without a father and he worshipped
        God. He was not God, nor was he the son of God. He was neither one
        of three manifestations of God as Christians say, nor was a son born
        out of wedlock as the Jews say.

        He told his people (the tribes of Israel) to worship God alone. He
        did not tell people to worship either himself or his mother.
        Furthermore, Prophet Jesus (mercy and peace of God be upon him) did
        not worship himself when he worshipped, rather he worshipped God.

        However, those who claim to be the followers of Jesus Christ today
        worship Jesus himself, claiming that he is God, and others also
        worship his mother calling her `the mother of God.'! God says in the
        Qur'an that He will ask Prophet Jesus (mercy and peace of God be
        upon him) on the Day of Judgment:

        Quarn chp 5: verses 116-117.
        O Jesus, son of Mary! Did you tell people: Take me and my mother as
        gods besides Allah? Then he will say: Glory to you, I could never
        say what I had no right to say. If I had said it, You would have
        known it, You know what is within myself, but I do not know what is
        within Yourself. Verily, You alone are the Knower of the unseen. I
        did not say to them except what You commanded me; to worship Allah,
        my Lord and your Lord, and I was a witness over them as long as I
        was among them, but when You raised me up, You were the observer
        over them, and You are the witness over all things.

        God emphasizes in the Qur'an that Prophet Jesus (mercy and peace of
        God be upon him) was neither killed nor crucified, but God raised
        him up into the heavens in body and spirit and he will be returned
        to the earth before the end of the world. Prophet Muhammad (mercy
        and peace of God be upon him) stated that Prohet Jesus would rule
        the earth according to the Islamic law, then he will die on earth
        like other human beings and will be buried and resurrected like them
        on the Day of Judgment. Hence, Prophet Jesus who was given life, was
        born from a woman's womb and circumcised, ate, slept, went to the
        toilet, grew up, prayed, and will die, should never be taken as God
        as all these characteristics are not the attributes of God, but of
        His creatures.

        The New Testament states that Jesus Christ taught his followers to
        pray to God saying:

        (Luke 11:2 / Matthew 6:9-10)
        Our Father who art in heaven, hallowed be your name, your kingdom
        come, your will be done on earth as it is in heaven."

        Also, he taught that only those who submit to God would inherit
        paradise:

        (Matthew 7:21)
        None of those who call me `Lord' will enter the Kingdom of God,
        except one who does the will of my Father in heaven.

        Prophet Jesus also pointed out that he himself submitted to the will
        of God:

        (John 5:23)
        I cannot do anything of myself. I judge as I hear and my judgment
        is honest because I am not seeking my own will but the will of Him
        who sent me.

        In fact, there are many reports in the Gospels that show that
        Prophet Jesus made it clear to his followers that he was not God.
        For example, when speaking about the final hour, he said:

        (Mark 13:32)
        No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven,
        not the son, but only the Father.

        Buddha, was a reformer who introduced a number of humanistic
        principles in the Hindu religion practiced in India. He did not
        claim to be God, nor did he suggest to his followers that he be
        worshipped. Yet, today most Buddhists have made him their God and
        they prostrate themselves before idols representing his likeness.
        In brief, from the perspective of the object worshipped, all
        religions today [except Islam] invite people to the worship of
        creation!

        God's attributes point to the fact that God alone deserves worship.
        He is One, without relatives; He has neither father, son, mother nor
        wife. He is the Eternal Absolute. He neither gives birth, nor is He
        born, and there is nothing like Him. He is perfect in His knowledge,
        in His power, in His will, in His mercy and in all His other
        attributes. God is all-powerful and perfect, while human beings are
        weak and imperfect. That is how He
        defined Himself and how all prophets defined Him.

        Another proof that God alone deserves to be worshipped can be found
        within the human soul. Islam teaches that all human beings have
        imprinted on their souls an awareness of God and a natural
        inclination towards worshipping Him alone imprinted on their souls.

        In the Qur'an,God explained that when He created Adam He caused all
        of Adam's descendants to come into existence and then He took a
        pledge from all of them saying:

        Quarn chp 7 verse 172.
        When thy Lord drew forth from the Children of Adam from their loins,
        their descendants, and made them testify concerning themselves,
        (saying): "Am I not your Lord (Who cherishes and sustains you)?"
        They said: "Yea! we do testify!" (this), lest ye should say on the
        Day of Judgment: "Of this we were never mindful."

        God then explained why He had all of humankind bear witness that He
        is their Creator and only true God worthy of worship:

        "That is in case you, humankind, may say on the Day of Resurrection:
        Indeed we were unaware of this."

        God further elaborated on this point saying:

        Quarn chp 7 verse 173
        "It is also in case you may say: It was our ancestors who made
        partners with Allah, and we are only their descendants, will you
        then destroy us for what those liars did?"
        Hence, people who associate partners with God in worship cannot
        claim on that day that they had no idea that Allah was the only god
        who deserved to be worshipped.
        Prophet Muhammad (mercy and peace of God be upon him) reported that
        God said:

        "I created my slaves upon the right religion, but devils made them
        go astray."

        He also said:
        "Each child is born in a state of Islam. Then his parents make him a
        Jew, Christian or a Zoroastrian."

        Thus, Islam is the birthright of every human being, since every
        child is born with a natural belief in the existence of God and an
        inborn inclination towards worshipping Him alone. Just as the child
        submits to the physical laws which God has imposed on the physical
        world, in the same way its soul also submits naturally to the fact
        that God is the only Lord and Creator. But if their parents are
        following a different path, the child is usually not strong or aware
        enough to recognize the truth or resist the will of the parents. In
        such cases, the religion which the child follows is one of custom
        and upbringing.
        But God, the Most Merciful and Compassionate, will not hold him to
        account or punish him for following a false religion before he
        reaches the age of reason and is exposed to the pure message of
        Islam.





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      • Will Quinn
        Dear Honey, I have an interest in theology, but you are truly straining it. You exhibit little understanding of Christianity, or any other religion for that
        Message 3 of 24 , Feb 21, 2004
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          Dear Honey,
          I have an interest in theology, but you are truly straining it. You exhibit little understanding of Christianity, or any other religion for that matter, and, speaking for myself, I am growing a little tired of reading these same platitudes over and over again. You don't answer any argument put forth to you; if you did at least these posts would be interesting. If I wanted to read your religious pamphlets, I would go out and find them myself. I don't need them forced upon me under the pretext that you are here to debate philosophy. I want a conversation with a human being, not with a machine who spews the same tired rhetoric over and over.
          If my words are overly harsh, I apologize, but I am growing aggravated.

          Cordially,
          Will Quinn

          honeybaby2012 <honeybaby2012@...> wrote:
          II. THE BASIC MESSAGE OF ISLAM

          The basic message of Islam is the same message of all the previous
          prophets: worship God alone and avoid worshipping anything besides
          Him, whether it is a person, place or thing, directly or indirectly.
          This basic principle of Monotheism is contained in the opening
          chapter of the Quran, known as Soorat Al-Faatihah, verse 4: "You
          alone we worship and from you alone we do seek help."

          In chp 4: verse 37, God also said:
          Worship Allah and do not associate partners with Him.

          Muhammad, the last Prophet (mercy and peace of God be upon him) is
          reported to have said: "Anyone who says: There is no god worthy of
          worship but Allah, and dies holding that belief will be granted
          paradise.


          II. PROOFS FOR GOD'S RIGHT OF WORSHIP

          Only God should be worshipped because He is the Creator and
          sustainer of all that exists. This Great Universe and everything
          that is in it cannot be the product of chance, and could not have
          created itself. Signs testifying that God is the only Creator can be
          seen throughout the earth and in the very soul of each person. God
          said in the Qur'an:

          Quran chp 14: verses 32-34
          It is Allah who Ceated the Sky and the Earth, and sent down from the
          sky water by which He brought forth fruits for your sustenance. He
          subjected for you the Ships to sail upon the Sea at His command, and
          He subjected for you the Rivers. And He subjected for you the Sun
          and Moon in continuous cycles, and He subjected for you the Night
          and Day. And He gave you all you asked Him for.

          In the Qur'an, God mentions Prophet Abraham's search for truth as an
          example of how those who follow God's signs will be rightly guided
          to the worship of Him alone; God said:
          Quarn chp 6: verses 75-79
          In this way we showed Abraham the kingdom of the heavens and the
          earth so that he would have faith with understanding and certainty.
          When the night covered him with darkness, he saw a star and
          said: `This is my Lord', but when it set, he said: `I don't like
          those that set.' When he saw the moon rising up, he said: `This is
          my Lord', but when it set, he said: `Unless my Lord guides me, I
          will certainly be among the people who went astray.' When he saw the
          sun rising up he said: `This is my Lord, this is the greatest of
          all.' But when it set, he said: `O my people! I am indeed free from
          what you join as partners with Allah.
          Verily, I have turned my face towards Allah who created the heavens
          and the earth and I reject those who associate partners with Allah
          (in worship).

          Actually, in the Qur'an God calls people to continuously look at the
          Universe, as this will
          affirm the divine truth of His existence, His greatness and that He
          alone should be worshipped. God alone deserves our worship because
          only He can answer our prayers. God says in the Qur'an:

          Quarn chp 40: verses 60.
          "And your Lord says: Call on Me and I will answer your prayer."

          Hence, if a human being prays to an idol and his prayers are
          answered, it is not the idol which actually answered his prayers but
          God. Similarly, prayers to Jesus Christ, Buddha, Krishna, Saint
          Christopher, Saint Jude or to Prophet Muhammad, are not answered by
          them, but are answered by God. Consequently, prayer is an act of
          worship which should be directed to God alone.

          Indeed, prophets who are worshipped besides Him did not tell people
          to worship them. Instead, the prophets warned their people against
          doing just that. For example, Islam teaches that Prophet Jesus
          (mercy and peace of God be upon him) was a human being who was
          created by God in a miraculous way.

          He was born of a mother, Mary, without a father and he worshipped
          God. He was not God, nor was he the son of God. He was neither one
          of three manifestations of God as Christians say, nor was a son born
          out of wedlock as the Jews say.

          He told his people (the tribes of Israel) to worship God alone. He
          did not tell people to worship either himself or his mother.
          Furthermore, Prophet Jesus (mercy and peace of God be upon him) did
          not worship himself when he worshipped, rather he worshipped God.

          However, those who claim to be the followers of Jesus Christ today
          worship Jesus himself, claiming that he is God, and others also
          worship his mother calling her `the mother of God.'! God says in the
          Qur'an that He will ask Prophet Jesus (mercy and peace of God be
          upon him) on the Day of Judgment:

          Quarn chp 5: verses 116-117.
          O Jesus, son of Mary! Did you tell people: Take me and my mother as
          gods besides Allah? Then he will say: Glory to you, I could never
          say what I had no right to say. If I had said it, You would have
          known it, You know what is within myself, but I do not know what is
          within Yourself. Verily, You alone are the Knower of the unseen. I
          did not say to them except what You commanded me; to worship Allah,
          my Lord and your Lord, and I was a witness over them as long as I
          was among them, but when You raised me up, You were the observer
          over them, and You are the witness over all things.

          God emphasizes in the Qur'an that Prophet Jesus (mercy and peace of
          God be upon him) was neither killed nor crucified, but God raised
          him up into the heavens in body and spirit and he will be returned
          to the earth before the end of the world. Prophet Muhammad (mercy
          and peace of God be upon him) stated that Prohet Jesus would rule
          the earth according to the Islamic law, then he will die on earth
          like other human beings and will be buried and resurrected like them
          on the Day of Judgment. Hence, Prophet Jesus who was given life, was
          born from a woman's womb and circumcised, ate, slept, went to the
          toilet, grew up, prayed, and will die, should never be taken as God
          as all these characteristics are not the attributes of God, but of
          His creatures.

          The New Testament states that Jesus Christ taught his followers to
          pray to God saying:

          (Luke 11:2 / Matthew 6:9-10)
          Our Father who art in heaven, hallowed be your name, your kingdom
          come, your will be done on earth as it is in heaven."

          Also, he taught that only those who submit to God would inherit
          paradise:

          (Matthew 7:21)
          None of those who call me `Lord' will enter the Kingdom of God,
          except one who does the will of my Father in heaven.

          Prophet Jesus also pointed out that he himself submitted to the will
          of God:

          (John 5:23)
          I cannot do anything of myself. I judge as I hear and my judgment
          is honest because I am not seeking my own will but the will of Him
          who sent me.

          In fact, there are many reports in the Gospels that show that
          Prophet Jesus made it clear to his followers that he was not God.
          For example, when speaking about the final hour, he said:

          (Mark 13:32)
          No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven,
          not the son, but only the Father.

          Buddha, was a reformer who introduced a number of humanistic
          principles in the Hindu religion practiced in India. He did not
          claim to be God, nor did he suggest to his followers that he be
          worshipped. Yet, today most Buddhists have made him their God and
          they prostrate themselves before idols representing his likeness.
          In brief, from the perspective of the object worshipped, all
          religions today [except Islam] invite people to the worship of
          creation!

          God's attributes point to the fact that God alone deserves worship.
          He is One, without relatives; He has neither father, son, mother nor
          wife. He is the Eternal Absolute. He neither gives birth, nor is He
          born, and there is nothing like Him. He is perfect in His knowledge,
          in His power, in His will, in His mercy and in all His other
          attributes. God is all-powerful and perfect, while human beings are
          weak and imperfect. That is how He
          defined Himself and how all prophets defined Him.

          Another proof that God alone deserves to be worshipped can be found
          within the human soul. Islam teaches that all human beings have
          imprinted on their souls an awareness of God and a natural
          inclination towards worshipping Him alone imprinted on their souls.

          In the Qur'an,God explained that when He created Adam He caused all
          of Adam's descendants to come into existence and then He took a
          pledge from all of them saying:

          Quarn chp 7 verse 172.
          When thy Lord drew forth from the Children of Adam from their loins,
          their descendants, and made them testify concerning themselves,
          (saying): "Am I not your Lord (Who cherishes and sustains you)?"
          They said: "Yea! we do testify!" (this), lest ye should say on the
          Day of Judgment: "Of this we were never mindful."

          God then explained why He had all of humankind bear witness that He
          is their Creator and only true God worthy of worship:

          "That is in case you, humankind, may say on the Day of Resurrection:
          Indeed we were unaware of this."

          God further elaborated on this point saying:

          Quarn chp 7 verse 173
          "It is also in case you may say: It was our ancestors who made
          partners with Allah, and we are only their descendants, will you
          then destroy us for what those liars did?"
          Hence, people who associate partners with God in worship cannot
          claim on that day that they had no idea that Allah was the only god
          who deserved to be worshipped.
          Prophet Muhammad (mercy and peace of God be upon him) reported that
          God said:

          "I created my slaves upon the right religion, but devils made them
          go astray."

          He also said:
          "Each child is born in a state of Islam. Then his parents make him a
          Jew, Christian or a Zoroastrian."

          Thus, Islam is the birthright of every human being, since every
          child is born with a natural belief in the existence of God and an
          inborn inclination towards worshipping Him alone. Just as the child
          submits to the physical laws which God has imposed on the physical
          world, in the same way its soul also submits naturally to the fact
          that God is the only Lord and Creator. But if their parents are
          following a different path, the child is usually not strong or aware
          enough to recognize the truth or resist the will of the parents. In
          such cases, the religion which the child follows is one of custom
          and upbringing.
          But God, the Most Merciful and Compassionate, will not hold him to
          account or punish him for following a false religion before he
          reaches the age of reason and is exposed to the pure message of
          Islam.





          ---------------------------------
          Yahoo! Groups Links

          To visit your group on the web, go to:
          http://groups.yahoo.com/group/theexistentialsociety/

          To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
          theexistentialsociety-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

          Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.



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        • honeybaby2012
          Dear Will Quinn, All your questions were centered around the trinity and Jesus…and all the answers to your questions were contained in those articles. With
          Message 4 of 24 , Feb 21, 2004
          • 0 Attachment
            Dear Will Quinn,
            All your questions were centered around the trinity and Jesus…and
            all the answers to your questions were contained in those articles.

            With my best wishes.

            --- In theexistentialsociety@yahoogroups.com, Will Quinn
            <kashmirlight@y...> wrote:
            > Dear Honey,
            > I have an interest in theology, but you are truly straining it.
            You exhibit little understanding of Christianity, or any other
            religion for that matter, and, speaking for myself, I am growing a
            little tired of reading these same platitudes over and over again.
            You don't answer any argument put forth to you; if you did at least
            these posts would be interesting. If I wanted to read your
            religious pamphlets, I would go out and find them myself. I don't
            need them forced upon me under the pretext that you are here to
            debate philosophy. I want a conversation with a human being, not
            with a machine who spews the same tired rhetoric over and over.
            > If my words are overly harsh, I apologize, but I am growing
            aggravated.
            >
            > Cordially,
            > Will Quinn
            >
            > honeybaby2012 <honeybaby2012@y...> wrote:
            > II. THE BASIC MESSAGE OF ISLAM
            >
            > The basic message of Islam is the same message of all the previous
            > prophets: worship God alone and avoid worshipping anything besides
            > Him, whether it is a person, place or thing, directly or
            indirectly.
            > This basic principle of Monotheism is contained in the opening
            > chapter of the Quran, known as Soorat Al-Faatihah, verse 4: "You
            > alone we worship and from you alone we do seek help."
            >
            > In chp 4: verse 37, God also said:
            > Worship Allah and do not associate partners with Him.
            >
            > Muhammad, the last Prophet (mercy and peace of God be upon him) is
            > reported to have said: "Anyone who says: There is no god worthy of
            > worship but Allah, and dies holding that belief will be granted
            > paradise.
            >
            >
            > II. PROOFS FOR GOD'S RIGHT OF WORSHIP
            >
            > Only God should be worshipped because He is the Creator and
            > sustainer of all that exists. This Great Universe and everything
            > that is in it cannot be the product of chance, and could not have
            > created itself. Signs testifying that God is the only Creator can
            be
            > seen throughout the earth and in the very soul of each person. God
            > said in the Qur'an:
            >
            > Quran chp 14: verses 32-34
            > It is Allah who Ceated the Sky and the Earth, and sent down from
            the
            > sky water by which He brought forth fruits for your sustenance. He
            > subjected for you the Ships to sail upon the Sea at His command,
            and
            > He subjected for you the Rivers. And He subjected for you the Sun
            > and Moon in continuous cycles, and He subjected for you the Night
            > and Day. And He gave you all you asked Him for.
            >
            > In the Qur'an, God mentions Prophet Abraham's search for truth as
            an
            > example of how those who follow God's signs will be rightly guided
            > to the worship of Him alone; God said:
            > Quarn chp 6: verses 75-79
            > In this way we showed Abraham the kingdom of the heavens and the
            > earth so that he would have faith with understanding and
            certainty.
            > When the night covered him with darkness, he saw a star and
            > said: `This is my Lord', but when it set, he said: `I don't like
            > those that set.' When he saw the moon rising up, he said: `This is
            > my Lord', but when it set, he said: `Unless my Lord guides me, I
            > will certainly be among the people who went astray.' When he saw
            the
            > sun rising up he said: `This is my Lord, this is the greatest of
            > all.' But when it set, he said: `O my people! I am indeed free
            from
            > what you join as partners with Allah.
            > Verily, I have turned my face towards Allah who created the
            heavens
            > and the earth and I reject those who associate partners with Allah
            > (in worship).
            >
            > Actually, in the Qur'an God calls people to continuously look at
            the
            > Universe, as this will
            > affirm the divine truth of His existence, His greatness and that
            He
            > alone should be worshipped. God alone deserves our worship because
            > only He can answer our prayers. God says in the Qur'an:
            >
            > Quarn chp 40: verses 60.
            > "And your Lord says: Call on Me and I will answer your prayer."
            >
            > Hence, if a human being prays to an idol and his prayers are
            > answered, it is not the idol which actually answered his prayers
            but
            > God. Similarly, prayers to Jesus Christ, Buddha, Krishna, Saint
            > Christopher, Saint Jude or to Prophet Muhammad, are not answered by
            > them, but are answered by God. Consequently, prayer is an act of
            > worship which should be directed to God alone.
            >
            > Indeed, prophets who are worshipped besides Him did not tell
            people
            > to worship them. Instead, the prophets warned their people against
            > doing just that. For example, Islam teaches that Prophet Jesus
            > (mercy and peace of God be upon him) was a human being who was
            > created by God in a miraculous way.
            >
            > He was born of a mother, Mary, without a father and he worshipped
            > God. He was not God, nor was he the son of God. He was neither one
            > of three manifestations of God as Christians say, nor was a son
            born
            > out of wedlock as the Jews say.
            >
            > He told his people (the tribes of Israel) to worship God alone. He
            > did not tell people to worship either himself or his mother.
            > Furthermore, Prophet Jesus (mercy and peace of God be upon him)
            did
            > not worship himself when he worshipped, rather he worshipped God.
            >
            > However, those who claim to be the followers of Jesus Christ today
            > worship Jesus himself, claiming that he is God, and others also
            > worship his mother calling her `the mother of God.'! God says in
            the
            > Qur'an that He will ask Prophet Jesus (mercy and peace of God be
            > upon him) on the Day of Judgment:
            >
            > Quarn chp 5: verses 116-117.
            > O Jesus, son of Mary! Did you tell people: Take me and my mother
            as
            > gods besides Allah? Then he will say: Glory to you, I could never
            > say what I had no right to say. If I had said it, You would have
            > known it, You know what is within myself, but I do not know what
            is
            > within Yourself. Verily, You alone are the Knower of the unseen. I
            > did not say to them except what You commanded me; to worship
            Allah,
            > my Lord and your Lord, and I was a witness over them as long as I
            > was among them, but when You raised me up, You were the observer
            > over them, and You are the witness over all things.
            >
            > God emphasizes in the Qur'an that Prophet Jesus (mercy and peace
            of
            > God be upon him) was neither killed nor crucified, but God raised
            > him up into the heavens in body and spirit and he will be returned
            > to the earth before the end of the world. Prophet Muhammad (mercy
            > and peace of God be upon him) stated that Prohet Jesus would rule
            > the earth according to the Islamic law, then he will die on earth
            > like other human beings and will be buried and resurrected like
            them
            > on the Day of Judgment. Hence, Prophet Jesus who was given life,
            was
            > born from a woman's womb and circumcised, ate, slept, went to the
            > toilet, grew up, prayed, and will die, should never be taken as
            God
            > as all these characteristics are not the attributes of God, but of
            > His creatures.
            >
            > The New Testament states that Jesus Christ taught his followers to
            > pray to God saying:
            >
            > (Luke 11:2 / Matthew 6:9-10)
            > Our Father who art in heaven, hallowed be your name, your kingdom
            > come, your will be done on earth as it is in heaven."
            >
            > Also, he taught that only those who submit to God would inherit
            > paradise:
            >
            > (Matthew 7:21)
            > None of those who call me `Lord' will enter the Kingdom of God,
            > except one who does the will of my Father in heaven.
            >
            > Prophet Jesus also pointed out that he himself submitted to the
            will
            > of God:
            >
            > (John 5:23)
            > I cannot do anything of myself. I judge as I hear and my judgment
            > is honest because I am not seeking my own will but the will of Him
            > who sent me.
            >
            > In fact, there are many reports in the Gospels that show that
            > Prophet Jesus made it clear to his followers that he was not God.
            > For example, when speaking about the final hour, he said:
            >
            > (Mark 13:32)
            > No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in
            heaven,
            > not the son, but only the Father.
            >
            > Buddha, was a reformer who introduced a number of humanistic
            > principles in the Hindu religion practiced in India. He did not
            > claim to be God, nor did he suggest to his followers that he be
            > worshipped. Yet, today most Buddhists have made him their God and
            > they prostrate themselves before idols representing his likeness.
            > In brief, from the perspective of the object worshipped, all
            > religions today [except Islam] invite people to the worship of
            > creation!
            >
            > God's attributes point to the fact that God alone deserves
            worship.
            > He is One, without relatives; He has neither father, son, mother
            nor
            > wife. He is the Eternal Absolute. He neither gives birth, nor is
            He
            > born, and there is nothing like Him. He is perfect in His
            knowledge,
            > in His power, in His will, in His mercy and in all His other
            > attributes. God is all-powerful and perfect, while human beings
            are
            > weak and imperfect. That is how He
            > defined Himself and how all prophets defined Him.
            >
            > Another proof that God alone deserves to be worshipped can be
            found
            > within the human soul. Islam teaches that all human beings have
            > imprinted on their souls an awareness of God and a natural
            > inclination towards worshipping Him alone imprinted on their
            souls.
            >
            > In the Qur'an,God explained that when He created Adam He caused
            all
            > of Adam's descendants to come into existence and then He took a
            > pledge from all of them saying:
            >
            > Quarn chp 7 verse 172.
            > When thy Lord drew forth from the Children of Adam from their
            loins,
            > their descendants, and made them testify concerning themselves,
            > (saying): "Am I not your Lord (Who cherishes and sustains you)?"
            > They said: "Yea! we do testify!" (this), lest ye should say on the
            > Day of Judgment: "Of this we were never mindful."
            >
            > God then explained why He had all of humankind bear witness that
            He
            > is their Creator and only true God worthy of worship:
            >
            > "That is in case you, humankind, may say on the Day of
            Resurrection:
            > Indeed we were unaware of this."
            >
            > God further elaborated on this point saying:
            >
            > Quarn chp 7 verse 173
            > "It is also in case you may say: It was our ancestors who made
            > partners with Allah, and we are only their descendants, will you
            > then destroy us for what those liars did?"
            > Hence, people who associate partners with God in worship cannot
            > claim on that day that they had no idea that Allah was the only
            god
            > who deserved to be worshipped.
            > Prophet Muhammad (mercy and peace of God be upon him) reported
            that
            > God said:
            >
            > "I created my slaves upon the right religion, but devils made them
            > go astray."
            >
            > He also said:
            > "Each child is born in a state of Islam. Then his parents make him
            a
            > Jew, Christian or a Zoroastrian."
            >
            > Thus, Islam is the birthright of every human being, since every
            > child is born with a natural belief in the existence of God and an
            > inborn inclination towards worshipping Him alone. Just as the
            child
            > submits to the physical laws which God has imposed on the physical
            > world, in the same way its soul also submits naturally to the fact
            > that God is the only Lord and Creator. But if their parents are
            > following a different path, the child is usually not strong or
            aware
            > enough to recognize the truth or resist the will of the parents.
            In
            > such cases, the religion which the child follows is one of custom
            > and upbringing.
            > But God, the Most Merciful and Compassionate, will not hold him to
            > account or punish him for following a false religion before he
            > reaches the age of reason and is exposed to the pure message of
            > Islam.
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > ---------------------------------
            > Yahoo! Groups Links
            >
            > To visit your group on the web, go to:
            > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/theexistentialsociety/
            >
            > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
            > theexistentialsociety-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
            >
            > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
            Service.
            >
            >
            >
            > ---------------------------------
            > Do you Yahoo!?
            > Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard - Read only the mail you want.
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • honeybaby2012
            Helen, This is not dogma, but a clear message from your creator & my creator, the Supreme Being telling us the reason for our existence, and what we are
            Message 5 of 24 , Feb 21, 2004
            • 0 Attachment
              Helen,
              This is not dogma, but a clear message from your creator & my
              creator, the Supreme Being telling us the reason for our existence,
              and what we are supposed to do during our brief stay on the planet
              Earth.

              With my best wishes.
              --- In theexistentialsociety@yahoogroups.com, helen steen
              <hjsgermany2000@y...> wrote:
              > Ok Honey,
              > Why this site?
              > What relevance has all this dogma got to Existentialism?
              > I don't get it.
              > Helen
              >
              > honeybaby2012 <honeybaby2012@y...> wrote:
              > II. THE BASIC MESSAGE OF ISLAM
              >
              > The basic message of Islam is the same message of all the previous
              > prophets: worship God alone and avoid worshipping anything besides
              > Him, whether it is a person, place or thing, directly or
              indirectly.
              > This basic principle of Monotheism is contained in the opening
              > chapter of the Quran, known as Soorat Al-Faatihah, verse 4: "You
              > alone we worship and from you alone we do seek help."
              >
              > In chp 4: verse 37, God also said:
              > Worship Allah and do not associate partners with Him.
              >
              > Muhammad, the last Prophet (mercy and peace of God be upon him) is
              > reported to have said: "Anyone who says: There is no god worthy of
              > worship but Allah, and dies holding that belief will be granted
              > paradise.
              >
              >
              > II. PROOFS FOR GOD'S RIGHT OF WORSHIP
              >
              > Only God should be worshipped because He is the Creator and
              > sustainer of all that exists. This Great Universe and everything
              > that is in it cannot be the product of chance, and could not have
              > created itself. Signs testifying that God is the only Creator can
              be
              > seen throughout the earth and in the very soul of each person. God
              > said in the Qur'an:
              >
              > Quran chp 14: verses 32-34
              > It is Allah who Ceated the Sky and the Earth, and sent down from
              the
              > sky water by which He brought forth fruits for your sustenance. He
              > subjected for you the Ships to sail upon the Sea at His command,
              and
              > He subjected for you the Rivers. And He subjected for you the Sun
              > and Moon in continuous cycles, and He subjected for you the Night
              > and Day. And He gave you all you asked Him for.
              >
              > In the Qur'an, God mentions Prophet Abraham's search for truth as
              an
              > example of how those who follow God's signs will be rightly guided
              > to the worship of Him alone; God said:
              > Quarn chp 6: verses 75-79
              > In this way we showed Abraham the kingdom of the heavens and the
              > earth so that he would have faith with understanding and
              certainty.
              > When the night covered him with darkness, he saw a star and
              > said: `This is my Lord', but when it set, he said: `I don't like
              > those that set.' When he saw the moon rising up, he said: `This is
              > my Lord', but when it set, he said: `Unless my Lord guides me, I
              > will certainly be among the people who went astray.' When he saw
              the
              > sun rising up he said: `This is my Lord, this is the greatest of
              > all.' But when it set, he said: `O my people! I am indeed free
              from
              > what you join as partners with Allah.
              > Verily, I have turned my face towards Allah who created the
              heavens
              > and the earth and I reject those who associate partners with Allah
              > (in worship).
              >
              > Actually, in the Qur'an God calls people to continuously look at
              the
              > Universe, as this will
              > affirm the divine truth of His existence, His greatness and that
              He
              > alone should be worshipped. God alone deserves our worship because
              > only He can answer our prayers. God says in the Qur'an:
              >
              > Quarn chp 40: verses 60.
              > "And your Lord says: Call on Me and I will answer your prayer."
              >
              > Hence, if a human being prays to an idol and his prayers are
              > answered, it is not the idol which actually answered his prayers
              but
              > God. Similarly, prayers to Jesus Christ, Buddha, Krishna, Saint
              > Christopher, Saint Jude or to Prophet Muhammad, are not answered by
              > them, but are answered by God. Consequently, prayer is an act of
              > worship which should be directed to God alone.
              >
              > Indeed, prophets who are worshipped besides Him did not tell
              people
              > to worship them. Instead, the prophets warned their people against
              > doing just that. For example, Islam teaches that Prophet Jesus
              > (mercy and peace of God be upon him) was a human being who was
              > created by God in a miraculous way.
              >
              > He was born of a mother, Mary, without a father and he worshipped
              > God. He was not God, nor was he the son of God. He was neither one
              > of three manifestations of God as Christians say, nor was a son
              born
              > out of wedlock as the Jews say.
              >
              > He told his people (the tribes of Israel) to worship God alone. He
              > did not tell people to worship either himself or his mother.
              > Furthermore, Prophet Jesus (mercy and peace of God be upon him)
              did
              > not worship himself when he worshipped, rather he worshipped God.
              >
              > However, those who claim to be the followers of Jesus Christ today
              > worship Jesus himself, claiming that he is God, and others also
              > worship his mother calling her `the mother of God.'! God says in
              the
              > Qur'an that He will ask Prophet Jesus (mercy and peace of God be
              > upon him) on the Day of Judgment:
              >
              > Quarn chp 5: verses 116-117.
              > O Jesus, son of Mary! Did you tell people: Take me and my mother
              as
              > gods besides Allah? Then he will say: Glory to you, I could never
              > say what I had no right to say. If I had said it, You would have
              > known it, You know what is within myself, but I do not know what
              is
              > within Yourself. Verily, You alone are the Knower of the unseen. I
              > did not say to them except what You commanded me; to worship
              Allah,
              > my Lord and your Lord, and I was a witness over them as long as I
              > was among them, but when You raised me up, You were the observer
              > over them, and You are the witness over all things.
              >
              > God emphasizes in the Qur'an that Prophet Jesus (mercy and peace
              of
              > God be upon him) was neither killed nor crucified, but God raised
              > him up into the heavens in body and spirit and he will be returned
              > to the earth before the end of the world. Prophet Muhammad (mercy
              > and peace of God be upon him) stated that Prohet Jesus would rule
              > the earth according to the Islamic law, then he will die on earth
              > like other human beings and will be buried and resurrected like
              them
              > on the Day of Judgment. Hence, Prophet Jesus who was given life,
              was
              > born from a woman's womb and circumcised, ate, slept, went to the
              > toilet, grew up, prayed, and will die, should never be taken as
              God
              > as all these characteristics are not the attributes of God, but of
              > His creatures.
              >
              > The New Testament states that Jesus Christ taught his followers to
              > pray to God saying:
              >
              > (Luke 11:2 / Matthew 6:9-10)
              > Our Father who art in heaven, hallowed be your name, your kingdom
              > come, your will be done on earth as it is in heaven."
              >
              > Also, he taught that only those who submit to God would inherit
              > paradise:
              >
              > (Matthew 7:21)
              > None of those who call me `Lord' will enter the Kingdom of God,
              > except one who does the will of my Father in heaven.
              >
              > Prophet Jesus also pointed out that he himself submitted to the
              will
              > of God:
              >
              > (John 5:23)
              > I cannot do anything of myself. I judge as I hear and my judgment
              > is honest because I am not seeking my own will but the will of Him
              > who sent me.
              >
              > In fact, there are many reports in the Gospels that show that
              > Prophet Jesus made it clear to his followers that he was not God.
              > For example, when speaking about the final hour, he said:
              >
              > (Mark 13:32)
              > No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in
              heaven,
              > not the son, but only the Father.
              >
              > Buddha, was a reformer who introduced a number of humanistic
              > principles in the Hindu religion practiced in India. He did not
              > claim to be God, nor did he suggest to his followers that he be
              > worshipped. Yet, today most Buddhists have made him their God and
              > they prostrate themselves before idols representing his likeness.
              > In brief, from the perspective of the object worshipped, all
              > religions today [except Islam] invite people to the worship of
              > creation!
              >
              > God's attributes point to the fact that God alone deserves
              worship.
              > He is One, without relatives; He has neither father, son, mother
              nor
              > wife. He is the Eternal Absolute. He neither gives birth, nor is
              He
              > born, and there is nothing like Him. He is perfect in His
              knowledge,
              > in His power, in His will, in His mercy and in all His other
              > attributes. God is all-powerful and perfect, while human beings
              are
              > weak and imperfect. That is how He
              > defined Himself and how all prophets defined Him.
              >
              > Another proof that God alone deserves to be worshipped can be
              found
              > within the human soul. Islam teaches that all human beings have
              > imprinted on their souls an awareness of God and a natural
              > inclination towards worshipping Him alone imprinted on their
              souls.
              >
              > In the Qur'an,God explained that when He created Adam He caused
              all
              > of Adam's descendants to come into existence and then He took a
              > pledge from all of them saying:
              >
              > Quarn chp 7 verse 172.
              > When thy Lord drew forth from the Children of Adam from their
              loins,
              > their descendants, and made them testify concerning themselves,
              > (saying): "Am I not your Lord (Who cherishes and sustains you)?"
              > They said: "Yea! we do testify!" (this), lest ye should say on the
              > Day of Judgment: "Of this we were never mindful."
              >
              > God then explained why He had all of humankind bear witness that
              He
              > is their Creator and only true God worthy of worship:
              >
              > "That is in case you, humankind, may say on the Day of
              Resurrection:
              > Indeed we were unaware of this."
              >
              > God further elaborated on this point saying:
              >
              > Quarn chp 7 verse 173
              > "It is also in case you may say: It was our ancestors who made
              > partners with Allah, and we are only their descendants, will you
              > then destroy us for what those liars did?"
              > Hence, people who associate partners with God in worship cannot
              > claim on that day that they had no idea that Allah was the only
              god
              > who deserved to be worshipped.
              > Prophet Muhammad (mercy and peace of God be upon him) reported
              that
              > God said:
              >
              > "I created my slaves upon the right religion, but devils made them
              > go astray."
              >
              > He also said:
              > "Each child is born in a state of Islam. Then his parents make him
              a
              > Jew, Christian or a Zoroastrian."
              >
              > Thus, Islam is the birthright of every human being, since every
              > child is born with a natural belief in the existence of God and an
              > inborn inclination towards worshipping Him alone. Just as the
              child
              > submits to the physical laws which God has imposed on the physical
              > world, in the same way its soul also submits naturally to the fact
              > that God is the only Lord and Creator. But if their parents are
              > following a different path, the child is usually not strong or
              aware
              > enough to recognize the truth or resist the will of the parents.
              In
              > such cases, the religion which the child follows is one of custom
              > and upbringing.
              > But God, the Most Merciful and Compassionate, will not hold him to
              > account or punish him for following a false religion before he
              > reaches the age of reason and is exposed to the pure message of
              > Islam.
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > ---------------------------------
              > Yahoo! Groups Links
              >
              > To visit your group on the web, go to:
              > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/theexistentialsociety/
              >
              > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
              > theexistentialsociety-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
              >
              > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
              Service.
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > ---------------------------------
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              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • A. W.
              Oh no, we have a 1 tune trompet player. Please do not be closed minded. Do not talk about concepts like creation, supreme being or reason for existence like
              Message 6 of 24 , Feb 22, 2004
              • 0 Attachment
                Oh no, we have a 1 tune trompet player.
                Please do not be closed minded. Do not talk about concepts like creation, supreme being or "reason
                for existence" like if you have already find their meaning. I understand you need security and
                some kind of backup for you to hold on unto life, but let me tell you, do not be sattisfied, never
                be sure, because for what i am conscious of, maybe is all we got. Our concept of the universe
                keeps changing throught human evolution and knowledge is relative, you need to understand
                everything changes, and that includes meaning and concepts. Hopefully, people will understand
                religion and government are just forms of manipulation and control of the human, in his
                metaphisycal mind and in the way he exists in society.
                For you to evolve, you need to kill god NOW, before is too late!. Kill the god image of all of
                this religions and find your way to understand existence and program your reality into your brain.
                Understand your brain, understand the sistematic society, understand power and control, reality is
                flexible into eternity and there is an infinite of paths you can choose from, thats what makes
                this moment eternal, and thats whats make everything eternal, the same way you and your brain can
                reach eternity in reality.


                --- honeybaby2012 <honeybaby2012@...> wrote:
                > Helen,
                > This is not dogma, but a clear message from your creator & my
                > creator, the Supreme Being telling us the reason for our existence,
                > and what we are supposed to do during our brief stay on the planet
                > Earth.
                >
                > With my best wishes.
                > --- In theexistentialsociety@yahoogroups.com, helen steen
                > <hjsgermany2000@y...> wrote:
                > > Ok Honey,
                > > Why this site?
                > > What relevance has all this dogma got to Existentialism?
                > > I don't get it.
                > > Helen
                > >
                > > honeybaby2012 <honeybaby2012@y...> wrote:
                > > II. THE BASIC MESSAGE OF ISLAM
                > >
                > > The basic message of Islam is the same message of all the previous
                > > prophets: worship God alone and avoid worshipping anything besides
                > > Him, whether it is a person, place or thing, directly or
                > indirectly.
                > > This basic principle of Monotheism is contained in the opening
                > > chapter of the Quran, known as Soorat Al-Faatihah, verse 4: "You
                > > alone we worship and from you alone we do seek help."
                > >
                > > In chp 4: verse 37, God also said:
                > > Worship Allah and do not associate partners with Him.
                > >
                > > Muhammad, the last Prophet (mercy and peace of God be upon him) is
                > > reported to have said: "Anyone who says: There is no god worthy of
                > > worship but Allah, and dies holding that belief will be granted
                > > paradise.
                > >
                > >
                > > II. PROOFS FOR GOD'S RIGHT OF WORSHIP
                > >
                > > Only God should be worshipped because He is the Creator and
                > > sustainer of all that exists. This Great Universe and everything
                > > that is in it cannot be the product of chance, and could not have
                > > created itself. Signs testifying that God is the only Creator can
                > be
                > > seen throughout the earth and in the very soul of each person. God
                > > said in the Qur'an:
                > >
                > > Quran chp 14: verses 32-34
                > > It is Allah who Ceated the Sky and the Earth, and sent down from
                > the
                > > sky water by which He brought forth fruits for your sustenance. He
                > > subjected for you the Ships to sail upon the Sea at His command,
                > and
                > > He subjected for you the Rivers. And He subjected for you the Sun
                > > and Moon in continuous cycles, and He subjected for you the Night
                > > and Day. And He gave you all you asked Him for.
                > >
                > > In the Qur'an, God mentions Prophet Abraham's search for truth as
                > an
                > > example of how those who follow God's signs will be rightly guided
                > > to the worship of Him alone; God said:
                > > Quarn chp 6: verses 75-79
                > > In this way we showed Abraham the kingdom of the heavens and the
                > > earth so that he would have faith with understanding and
                > certainty.
                > > When the night covered him with darkness, he saw a star and
                > > said: `This is my Lord', but when it set, he said: `I don't like
                > > those that set.' When he saw the moon rising up, he said: `This is
                > > my Lord', but when it set, he said: `Unless my Lord guides me, I
                > > will certainly be among the people who went astray.' When he saw
                > the
                > > sun rising up he said: `This is my Lord, this is the greatest of
                > > all.' But when it set, he said: `O my people! I am indeed free
                > from
                > > what you join as partners with Allah.
                > > Verily, I have turned my face towards Allah who created the
                > heavens
                > > and the earth and I reject those who associate partners with Allah
                > > (in worship).
                > >
                > > Actually, in the Qur'an God calls people to continuously look at
                > the
                > > Universe, as this will
                > > affirm the divine truth of His existence, His greatness and that
                > He
                > > alone should be worshipped. God alone deserves our worship because
                > > only He can answer our prayers. God says in the Qur'an:
                > >
                > > Quarn chp 40: verses 60.
                > > "And your Lord says: Call on Me and I will answer your prayer."
                > >
                > > Hence, if a human being prays to an idol and his prayers are
                > > answered, it is not the idol which actually answered his prayers
                > but
                > > God. Similarly, prayers to Jesus Christ, Buddha, Krishna, Saint
                > > Christopher, Saint Jude or to Prophet Muhammad, are not answered by
                > > them, but are answered by God. Consequently, prayer is an act of
                > > worship which should be directed to God alone.
                > >
                > > Indeed, prophets who are worshipped besides Him did not tell
                > people
                > > to worship them. Instead, the prophets warned their people against
                > > doing just that. For example, Islam teaches that Prophet Jesus
                > > (mercy and peace of God be upon him) was a human being who was
                > > created by God in a miraculous way.
                > >
                > > He was born of a mother, Mary, without a father and he worshipped
                > > God. He was not God, nor was he the son of God. He was neither one
                > > of three manifestations of God as Christians say, nor was a son
                > born
                > > out of wedlock as the Jews say.
                > >
                > > He told his people (the tribes of Israel) to worship God alone. He
                > > did not tell people to worship either himself or his mother.
                > > Furthermore, Prophet Jesus (mercy and peace of God be upon him)
                > did
                > > not worship himself when he worshipped, rather he worshipped God.
                > >
                > > However, those who claim to be the followers of Jesus Christ today
                > > worship Jesus himself, claiming that he is God, and others also
                > > worship his mother calling her `the mother of God.'! God says in
                > the
                > > Qur'an that He will ask Prophet Jesus (mercy and peace of God be
                > > upon him) on the Day of Judgment:
                > >
                > > Quarn chp 5: verses 116-117.
                > > O Jesus, son of Mary! Did you tell people: Take me and my mother
                > as
                > > gods besides Allah? Then he will say: Glory to you, I could never
                > > say what I had no right to say. If I had said it, You would have
                > > known it, You know what is within myself, but I do not know what
                > is
                > > within Yourself. Verily, You alone are the Knower of the unseen. I
                > > did not say to them except what You commanded me; to worship
                > Allah,
                > > my Lord and your Lord, and I was a witness over them as long as I
                > > was among them, but when You raised me up, You were the observer
                > > over them, and You are the witness over all things.
                > >
                > > God emphasizes in the Qur'an that Prophet Jesus (mercy and peace
                > of
                > > God be upon him) was neither killed nor crucified, but God raised
                > > him up into the heavens in body and spirit and he will be returned
                > > to the earth before the end of the world. Prophet Muhammad (mercy
                > > and peace of God be upon him) stated that Prohet Jesus would rule
                > > the earth according to the Islamic law, then he will die on earth
                > > like other human beings and will be buried and resurrected like
                > them
                > > on the Day of Judgment. Hence, Prophet Jesus who was given life,
                > was
                > > born from a woman's womb and circumcised, ate, slept, went to the
                > > toilet, grew up, prayed, and will die, should never be taken as
                > God
                > > as all these characteristics are not the attributes of God, but of
                > > His creatures.
                > >
                > > The New Testament states that Jesus Christ taught his followers to
                > > pray to God saying:
                > >
                > > (Luke 11:2 / Matthew 6:9-10)
                > > Our Father who art in heaven, hallowed be your name, your kingdom
                > > come, your will be done on earth as it is in heaven."
                > >
                > > Also, he taught that only those who submit to God would inherit
                > > paradise:
                > >
                > > (Matthew 7:21)
                > > None of those who call me `Lord' will enter the Kingdom of God,
                > > except one who does the will of my Father in heaven.
                > >
                > > Prophet Jesus also pointed out that he himself submitted to the
                > will
                > > of God:
                > >
                > > (John 5:23)
                > > I cannot do anything of myself. I judge as I hear and my judgment
                > > is honest because I am not seeking my own will but the will of Him
                > > who sent me.
                > >
                > > In fact, there are many reports in the Gospels that show that
                > > Prophet Jesus made it clear to his followers that he was not God.
                > > For example, when speaking about the final hour, he said:
                > >
                > > (Mark 13:32)
                > > No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in
                > heaven,
                > > not the son, but only the Father.
                > >
                > > Buddha, was a reformer who introduced a number of humanistic
                > > principles in the Hindu religion practiced in India. He did not
                > > claim to be God, nor did he suggest to his followers that he be
                > > worshipped. Yet, today most Buddhists have made him their God and
                > > they prostrate themselves before idols representing his likeness.
                > > In brief, from the perspective of the object worshipped, all
                > > religions today [except Islam] invite people to the worship of
                > > creation!
                > >
                > > God's attributes point to the fact that God alone deserves
                > worship.
                > > He is One, without relatives; He has neither father, son, mother
                > nor
                > > wife. He is the Eternal Absolute. He neither gives birth, nor is
                > He
                >
                === message truncated ===


                =====
                ------------------------------------------------------------

                "Have you ever stood and stared at it? Marveled at its beauty?; its genius. Billions of people, just living out their lives -- oblivious."

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              • Will Quinn
                Dear A.W., You yourself are guilty of dogma. I may even agree with some of your sentiments, but you statements betray a contracdiction. Don t be
                Message 7 of 24 , Feb 22, 2004
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                  Dear A.W.,
                  You yourself are guilty of dogma. I may even agree
                  with some of your sentiments, but you statements
                  betray a contracdiction. Don't be closeminded, you
                  say. Then you condemn people of faith as somehow
                  intellectually inferior to youself and others who
                  don't accept God. You are the same as Honey, only
                  from another angle. Your dogma is just a shadowy
                  reflection of his, and you can't pretend otherwise.
                  If there are an infinite number of paths, who are you
                  to condemn one path or another as you see fit? You
                  don't have the right to, within your own philosophy.
                  By extension, each choice is determined by the person
                  who made it, and its morality is determined by that
                  person as well. You cannot say that one person is
                  right or wrong within your philosophy, if it is
                  followed to its logical conclusion.
                  Please enlighten me to any facets of your argument
                  that I am not getting here.

                  Cordially,
                  Will Quinn

                  --- "A. W." <altool4@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Oh no, we have a 1 tune trompet player.
                  > Please do not be closed minded. Do not talk about
                  > concepts like creation, supreme being or "reason
                  > for existence" like if you have already find their
                  > meaning. I understand you need security and
                  > some kind of backup for you to hold on unto life,
                  > but let me tell you, do not be sattisfied, never
                  > be sure, because for what i am conscious of, maybe
                  > is all we got. Our concept of the universe
                  > keeps changing throught human evolution and
                  > knowledge is relative, you need to understand
                  > everything changes, and that includes meaning and
                  > concepts. Hopefully, people will understand
                  > religion and government are just forms of
                  > manipulation and control of the human, in his
                  > metaphisycal mind and in the way he exists in
                  > society.
                  > For you to evolve, you need to kill god NOW, before
                  > is too late!. Kill the god image of all of
                  > this religions and find your way to understand
                  > existence and program your reality into your brain.
                  > Understand your brain, understand the sistematic
                  > society, understand power and control, reality is
                  > flexible into eternity and there is an infinite of
                  > paths you can choose from, thats what makes
                  > this moment eternal, and thats whats make everything
                  > eternal, the same way you and your brain can
                  > reach eternity in reality.
                  >
                  >
                  > --- honeybaby2012 <honeybaby2012@...> wrote:
                  > > Helen,
                  > > This is not dogma, but a clear message from your
                  > creator & my
                  > > creator, the Supreme Being telling us the reason
                  > for our existence,
                  > > and what we are supposed to do during our brief
                  > stay on the planet
                  > > Earth.
                  > >
                  > > With my best wishes.
                  > > --- In theexistentialsociety@yahoogroups.com,
                  > helen steen
                  > > <hjsgermany2000@y...> wrote:
                  > > > Ok Honey,
                  > > > Why this site?
                  > > > What relevance has all this dogma got to
                  > Existentialism?
                  > > > I don't get it.
                  > > > Helen
                  > > >
                  > > > honeybaby2012 <honeybaby2012@y...> wrote:
                  > > > II. THE BASIC MESSAGE OF ISLAM
                  > > >
                  > > > The basic message of Islam is the same message
                  > of all the previous
                  > > > prophets: worship God alone and avoid
                  > worshipping anything besides
                  > > > Him, whether it is a person, place or thing,
                  > directly or
                  > > indirectly.
                  > > > This basic principle of Monotheism is contained
                  > in the opening
                  > > > chapter of the Quran, known as Soorat
                  > Al-Faatihah, verse 4: "You
                  > > > alone we worship and from you alone we do seek
                  > help."
                  > > >
                  > > > In chp 4: verse 37, God also said:
                  > > > Worship Allah and do not associate partners with
                  > Him.
                  > > >
                  > > > Muhammad, the last Prophet (mercy and peace of
                  > God be upon him) is
                  > > > reported to have said: "Anyone who says: There
                  > is no god worthy of
                  > > > worship but Allah, and dies holding that belief
                  > will be granted
                  > > > paradise.
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > > II. PROOFS FOR GOD'S RIGHT OF WORSHIP
                  > > >
                  > > > Only God should be worshipped because He is the
                  > Creator and
                  > > > sustainer of all that exists. This Great
                  > Universe and everything
                  > > > that is in it cannot be the product of chance,
                  > and could not have
                  > > > created itself. Signs testifying that God is the
                  > only Creator can
                  > > be
                  > > > seen throughout the earth and in the very soul
                  > of each person. God
                  > > > said in the Qur'an:
                  > > >
                  > > > Quran chp 14: verses 32-34
                  > > > It is Allah who Ceated the Sky and the Earth,
                  > and sent down from
                  > > the
                  > > > sky water by which He brought forth fruits for
                  > your sustenance. He
                  > > > subjected for you the Ships to sail upon the Sea
                  > at His command,
                  > > and
                  > > > He subjected for you the Rivers. And He
                  > subjected for you the Sun
                  > > > and Moon in continuous cycles, and He subjected
                  > for you the Night
                  > > > and Day. And He gave you all you asked Him for.
                  > > >
                  > > > In the Qur'an, God mentions Prophet Abraham's
                  > search for truth as
                  > > an
                  > > > example of how those who follow God's signs will
                  > be rightly guided
                  > > > to the worship of Him alone; God said:
                  > > > Quarn chp 6: verses 75-79
                  > > > In this way we showed Abraham the kingdom of the
                  > heavens and the
                  > > > earth so that he would have faith with
                  > understanding and
                  > > certainty.
                  > > > When the night covered him with darkness, he saw
                  > a star and
                  > > > said: `This is my Lord', but when it set, he
                  > said: `I don't like
                  > > > those that set.' When he saw the moon rising up,
                  > he said: `This is
                  > > > my Lord', but when it set, he said: `Unless my
                  > Lord guides me, I
                  > > > will certainly be among the people who went
                  > astray.' When he saw
                  > > the
                  > > > sun rising up he said: `This is my Lord, this is
                  > the greatest of
                  > > > all.' But when it set, he said: `O my people! I
                  > am indeed free
                  > > from
                  > > > what you join as partners with Allah.
                  > > > Verily, I have turned my face towards Allah who
                  > created the
                  > > heavens
                  > > > and the earth and I reject those who associate
                  > partners with Allah
                  > > > (in worship).
                  > > >
                  > > > Actually, in the Qur'an God calls people to
                  > continuously look at
                  > > the
                  > > > Universe, as this will
                  > > > affirm the divine truth of His existence, His
                  > greatness and that
                  > > He
                  > > > alone should be worshipped. God alone deserves
                  > our worship because
                  > > > only He can answer our prayers. God says in the
                  > Qur'an:
                  > > >
                  > > > Quarn chp 40: verses 60.
                  > > > "And your Lord says: Call on Me and I will
                  > answer your prayer."
                  > > >
                  > > > Hence, if a human being prays to an idol and his
                  > prayers are
                  > > > answered, it is not the idol which actually
                  > answered his prayers
                  > > but
                  > > > God. Similarly, prayers to Jesus Christ, Buddha,
                  > Krishna, Saint
                  > > > Christopher, Saint Jude or to Prophet Muhammad,
                  > are not answered by
                  > > > them, but are answered by God. Consequently,
                  > prayer is an act of
                  > > > worship which should be directed to God alone.
                  > > >
                  > > > Indeed, prophets who are worshipped besides Him
                  > did not tell
                  > > people
                  > > > to worship them. Instead, the prophets warned
                  > their people against
                  > > > doing just that. For example, Islam teaches that
                  > Prophet Jesus
                  > > > (mercy and peace of God be upon him) was a human
                  > being who was
                  > > > created by God in a miraculous way.
                  > > >
                  > > > He was born of a mother, Mary, without a father
                  > and he worshipped
                  > > > God. He was not God, nor was he the son of God.
                  > He was neither one
                  > > > of three manifestations of God as Christians
                  > say, nor was a son
                  > > born
                  > > > out of wedlock as the Jews say.
                  > > >
                  > > > He told his people (the tribes of Israel) to
                  > worship God alone. He
                  > > > did not tell people to worship either himself or
                  > his mother.
                  >
                  === message truncated ===


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                • A. W.
                  Yes you are right, it wasn t right of me to attack her, but honestly i never tried to consider myself superior. What i tried to say, is just to take everything
                  Message 8 of 24 , Feb 22, 2004
                  • 0 Attachment
                    Yes you are right, it wasn't right of me to attack her, but honestly i never tried to consider
                    myself superior. What i tried to say, is just to take everything into doubdt, i was just trying to
                    make a point into not trying to be sure or feel "right" about existence, when there are infinite
                    ways of living in infinite realities. I really wasn't trying to make you believe what i believe,
                    since i haven't even said what i believe about god or about existence or about the purpose of
                    life... that email i wrote was about not to adjust just to 1 meaning or concept, and worse of all,
                    the word G O D imposed in our minds since we are childs...
                    Please read it again, you will see i wasn't trying to impose my "dogma" into anyone, i am saying
                    "please do not take it for sure".
                    I am sorry if you feel condemned by my message. And yes we could have an infinite discussion on
                    whos right or not in the sense of what is the real objective truth outside the perception of our
                    nervous system... or why is it my message of "please do not take it for sure" another dogma of my
                    beliefs that still resides in the subjective world... and that discussion could go on into
                    nothingness...
                    So in conclusion and to avoid arguing into something that is really more personal to each of us i
                    will have to stick to only this message: "maybe is all we have".
                    Or better so... "maybe is that maybe is all we have". :D

                    ATTE.
                    A.W.

                    --- Will Quinn <kashmirlight@...> wrote:
                    > Dear A.W.,
                    > You yourself are guilty of dogma. I may even agree
                    > with some of your sentiments, but you statements
                    > betray a contracdiction. Don't be closeminded, you
                    > say. Then you condemn people of faith as somehow
                    > intellectually inferior to youself and others who
                    > don't accept God. You are the same as Honey, only
                    > from another angle. Your dogma is just a shadowy
                    > reflection of his, and you can't pretend otherwise.
                    > If there are an infinite number of paths, who are you
                    > to condemn one path or another as you see fit? You
                    > don't have the right to, within your own philosophy.
                    > By extension, each choice is determined by the person
                    > who made it, and its morality is determined by that
                    > person as well. You cannot say that one person is
                    > right or wrong within your philosophy, if it is
                    > followed to its logical conclusion.
                    > Please enlighten me to any facets of your argument
                    > that I am not getting here.
                    >
                    > Cordially,
                    > Will Quinn
                    >
                    > --- "A. W." <altool4@...> wrote:
                    > >
                    > > Oh no, we have a 1 tune trompet player.
                    > > Please do not be closed minded. Do not talk about
                    > > concepts like creation, supreme being or "reason
                    > > for existence" like if you have already find their
                    > > meaning. I understand you need security and
                    > > some kind of backup for you to hold on unto life,
                    > > but let me tell you, do not be sattisfied, never
                    > > be sure, because for what i am conscious of, maybe
                    > > is all we got. Our concept of the universe
                    > > keeps changing throught human evolution and
                    > > knowledge is relative, you need to understand
                    > > everything changes, and that includes meaning and
                    > > concepts. Hopefully, people will understand
                    > > religion and government are just forms of
                    > > manipulation and control of the human, in his
                    > > metaphisycal mind and in the way he exists in
                    > > society.
                    > > For you to evolve, you need to kill god NOW, before
                    > > is too late!. Kill the god image of all of
                    > > this religions and find your way to understand
                    > > existence and program your reality into your brain.
                    > > Understand your brain, understand the sistematic
                    > > society, understand power and control, reality is
                    > > flexible into eternity and there is an infinite of
                    > > paths you can choose from, thats what makes
                    > > this moment eternal, and thats whats make everything
                    > > eternal, the same way you and your brain can
                    > > reach eternity in reality.
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > --- honeybaby2012 <honeybaby2012@...> wrote:
                    > > > Helen,
                    > > > This is not dogma, but a clear message from your
                    > > creator & my
                    > > > creator, the Supreme Being telling us the reason
                    > > for our existence,
                    > > > and what we are supposed to do during our brief
                    > > stay on the planet
                    > > > Earth.
                    > > >
                    > > > With my best wishes.
                    > > > --- In theexistentialsociety@yahoogroups.com,
                    > > helen steen
                    > > > <hjsgermany2000@y...> wrote:
                    > > > > Ok Honey,
                    > > > > Why this site?
                    > > > > What relevance has all this dogma got to
                    > > Existentialism?
                    > > > > I don't get it.
                    > > > > Helen
                    > > > >
                    > > > > honeybaby2012 <honeybaby2012@y...> wrote:
                    > > > > II. THE BASIC MESSAGE OF ISLAM
                    > > > >
                    > > > > The basic message of Islam is the same message
                    > > of all the previous
                    > > > > prophets: worship God alone and avoid
                    > > worshipping anything besides
                    > > > > Him, whether it is a person, place or thing,
                    > > directly or
                    > > > indirectly.
                    > > > > This basic principle of Monotheism is contained
                    > > in the opening
                    > > > > chapter of the Quran, known as Soorat
                    > > Al-Faatihah, verse 4: "You
                    > > > > alone we worship and from you alone we do seek
                    > > help."
                    > > > >
                    > > > > In chp 4: verse 37, God also said:
                    > > > > Worship Allah and do not associate partners with
                    > > Him.
                    > > > >
                    > > > > Muhammad, the last Prophet (mercy and peace of
                    > > God be upon him) is
                    > > > > reported to have said: "Anyone who says: There
                    > > is no god worthy of
                    > > > > worship but Allah, and dies holding that belief
                    > > will be granted
                    > > > > paradise.
                    > > > >
                    > > > >
                    > > > > II. PROOFS FOR GOD'S RIGHT OF WORSHIP
                    > > > >
                    > > > > Only God should be worshipped because He is the
                    > > Creator and
                    > > > > sustainer of all that exists. This Great
                    > > Universe and everything
                    > > > > that is in it cannot be the product of chance,
                    > > and could not have
                    > > > > created itself. Signs testifying that God is the
                    > > only Creator can
                    > > > be
                    > > > > seen throughout the earth and in the very soul
                    > > of each person. God
                    > > > > said in the Qur'an:
                    > > > >
                    > > > > Quran chp 14: verses 32-34
                    > > > > It is Allah who Ceated the Sky and the Earth,
                    > > and sent down from
                    > > > the
                    > > > > sky water by which He brought forth fruits for
                    > > your sustenance. He
                    > > > > subjected for you the Ships to sail upon the Sea
                    > > at His command,
                    > > > and
                    > > > > He subjected for you the Rivers. And He
                    > > subjected for you the Sun
                    > > > > and Moon in continuous cycles, and He subjected
                    > > for you the Night
                    > > > > and Day. And He gave you all you asked Him for.
                    > > > >
                    > > > > In the Qur'an, God mentions Prophet Abraham's
                    > > search for truth as
                    > > > an
                    > > > > example of how those who follow God's signs will
                    > > be rightly guided
                    > > > > to the worship of Him alone; God said:
                    > > > > Quarn chp 6: verses 75-79
                    > > > > In this way we showed Abraham the kingdom of the
                    > > heavens and the
                    > > > > earth so that he would have faith with
                    > > understanding and
                    > > > certainty.
                    > > > > When the night covered him with darkness, he saw
                    > > a star and
                    > > > > said: `This is my Lord', but when it set, he
                    > > said: `I don't like
                    > > > > those that set.' When he saw the moon rising up,
                    > > he said: `This is
                    > > > > my Lord', but when it set, he said: `Unless my
                    > > Lord guides me, I
                    > > > > will certainly be among the people who went
                    > > astray.' When he saw
                    > > > the
                    > > > > sun rising up he said: `This is my Lord, this is
                    > > the greatest of
                    > > > > all.' But when it set, he said: `O my people! I
                    > > am indeed free
                    > > > from
                    > > > > what you join as partners with Allah.
                    > > > > Verily, I have turned my face towards Allah who
                    > > created the
                    > > > heavens
                    > > > > and the earth and I reject those who associate
                    > > partners with Allah
                    > > > > (in worship).
                    > > > >
                    > > > > Actually, in the Qur'an God calls people to
                    > > continuously look at
                    > > > the
                    > > > > Universe, as this will
                    > > > > affirm the divine truth of His existence, His
                    > > greatness and that
                    > > > He
                    > > > > alone should be worshipped. God alone deserves
                    > > our worship because
                    > > > > only He can answer our prayers. God says in the
                    > > Qur'an:
                    > > > >
                    > > > > Quarn chp 40: verses 60.
                    > > > > "And your Lord says: Call on Me and I will
                    > > answer your prayer."
                    > > > >
                    > > > > Hence, if a human being prays to an idol and his
                    > > prayers are
                    > > > > answered, it is not the idol which actually
                    > > answered his prayers
                    > > > but
                    > > > > God. Similarly, prayers to Jesus Christ, Buddha,
                    > > Krishna, Saint
                    > > > > Christopher, Saint Jude or to Prophet Muhammad,
                    > > are not answered by
                    > > > > them, but are answered by God. Consequently,
                    > > prayer is an act of
                    > > > > worship which should be directed to God alone.
                    > > > >
                    >
                    === message truncated ===


                    =====
                    ------------------------------------------------------------

                    "Have you ever stood and stared at it? Marveled at its beauty?; its genius. Billions of people, just living out their lives -- oblivious."

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                  • honeybaby2012
                    AW, Tell me, who created your brain?. Where does your soul go when you die?. My best wishes? ... creation, supreme being or reason ... understand you need
                    Message 9 of 24 , Feb 23, 2004
                    • 0 Attachment
                      AW,
                      Tell me, who created your brain?.
                      Where does your soul go when you die?.
                      My best wishes?

                      --- In theexistentialsociety@yahoogroups.com, "A. W." <altool4@y...>
                      wrote:
                      >
                      > Oh no, we have a 1 tune trompet player.
                      > Please do not be closed minded. Do not talk about concepts like
                      creation, supreme being or "reason
                      > for existence" like if you have already find their meaning. I
                      understand you need security and
                      > some kind of backup for you to hold on unto life, but let me tell
                      you, do not be sattisfied, never
                      > be sure, because for what i am conscious of, maybe is all we got.
                      Our concept of the universe
                      > keeps changing throught human evolution and knowledge is relative,
                      you need to understand
                      > everything changes, and that includes meaning and concepts.
                      Hopefully, people will understand
                      > religion and government are just forms of manipulation and control
                      of the human, in his
                      > metaphisycal mind and in the way he exists in society.
                      > For you to evolve, you need to kill god NOW, before is too late!.
                      Kill the god image of all of
                      > this religions and find your way to understand existence and
                      program your reality into your brain.
                      > Understand your brain, understand the sistematic society,
                      understand power and control, reality is
                      > flexible into eternity and there is an infinite of paths you can
                      choose from, thats what makes
                      > this moment eternal, and thats whats make everything eternal, the
                      same way you and your brain can
                      > reach eternity in reality.
                      >
                      >
                      > --- honeybaby2012 <honeybaby2012@y...> wrote:
                      > > Helen,
                      > > This is not dogma, but a clear message from your creator & my
                      > > creator, the Supreme Being telling us the reason for our
                      existence,
                      > > and what we are supposed to do during our brief stay on the
                      planet
                      > > Earth.
                      > >
                      > > With my best wishes.
                      > > --- In theexistentialsociety@yahoogroups.com, helen steen
                      > > <hjsgermany2000@y...> wrote:
                      > > > Ok Honey,
                      > > > Why this site?
                      > > > What relevance has all this dogma got to Existentialism?
                      > > > I don't get it.
                      > > > Helen
                      > > >
                      > > > honeybaby2012 <honeybaby2012@y...> wrote:
                      > > > II. THE BASIC MESSAGE OF ISLAM
                      > > >
                      > > > The basic message of Islam is the same message of all the
                      previous
                      > > > prophets: worship God alone and avoid worshipping anything
                      besides
                      > > > Him, whether it is a person, place or thing, directly or
                      > > indirectly.
                      > > > This basic principle of Monotheism is contained in the opening
                      > > > chapter of the Quran, known as Soorat Al-Faatihah, verse
                      4: "You
                      > > > alone we worship and from you alone we do seek help."
                      > > >
                      > > > In chp 4: verse 37, God also said:
                      > > > Worship Allah and do not associate partners with Him.
                      > > >
                      > > > Muhammad, the last Prophet (mercy and peace of God be upon
                      him) is
                      > > > reported to have said: "Anyone who says: There is no god
                      worthy of
                      > > > worship but Allah, and dies holding that belief will be
                      granted
                      > > > paradise.
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > > II. PROOFS FOR GOD'S RIGHT OF WORSHIP
                      > > >
                      > > > Only God should be worshipped because He is the Creator and
                      > > > sustainer of all that exists. This Great Universe and
                      everything
                      > > > that is in it cannot be the product of chance, and could not
                      have
                      > > > created itself. Signs testifying that God is the only Creator
                      can
                      > > be
                      > > > seen throughout the earth and in the very soul of each person.
                      God
                      > > > said in the Qur'an:
                      > > >
                      > > > Quran chp 14: verses 32-34
                      > > > It is Allah who Ceated the Sky and the Earth, and sent down
                      from
                      > > the
                      > > > sky water by which He brought forth fruits for your
                      sustenance. He
                      > > > subjected for you the Ships to sail upon the Sea at His
                      command,
                      > > and
                      > > > He subjected for you the Rivers. And He subjected for you the
                      Sun
                      > > > and Moon in continuous cycles, and He subjected for you the
                      Night
                      > > > and Day. And He gave you all you asked Him for.
                      > > >
                      > > > In the Qur'an, God mentions Prophet Abraham's search for truth
                      as
                      > > an
                      > > > example of how those who follow God's signs will be rightly
                      guided
                      > > > to the worship of Him alone; God said:
                      > > > Quarn chp 6: verses 75-79
                      > > > In this way we showed Abraham the kingdom of the heavens and
                      the
                      > > > earth so that he would have faith with understanding and
                      > > certainty.
                      > > > When the night covered him with darkness, he saw a star and
                      > > > said: `This is my Lord', but when it set, he said: `I don't
                      like
                      > > > those that set.' When he saw the moon rising up, he said:
                      `This is
                      > > > my Lord', but when it set, he said: `Unless my Lord guides me,
                      I
                      > > > will certainly be among the people who went astray.' When he
                      saw
                      > > the
                      > > > sun rising up he said: `This is my Lord, this is the greatest
                      of
                      > > > all.' But when it set, he said: `O my people! I am indeed free
                      > > from
                      > > > what you join as partners with Allah.
                      > > > Verily, I have turned my face towards Allah who created the
                      > > heavens
                      > > > and the earth and I reject those who associate partners with
                      Allah
                      > > > (in worship).
                      > > >
                      > > > Actually, in the Qur'an God calls people to continuously look
                      at
                      > > the
                      > > > Universe, as this will
                      > > > affirm the divine truth of His existence, His greatness and
                      that
                      > > He
                      > > > alone should be worshipped. God alone deserves our worship
                      because
                      > > > only He can answer our prayers. God says in the Qur'an:
                      > > >
                      > > > Quarn chp 40: verses 60.
                      > > > "And your Lord says: Call on Me and I will answer your
                      prayer."
                      > > >
                      > > > Hence, if a human being prays to an idol and his prayers are
                      > > > answered, it is not the idol which actually answered his
                      prayers
                      > > but
                      > > > God. Similarly, prayers to Jesus Christ, Buddha, Krishna,
                      Saint
                      > > > Christopher, Saint Jude or to Prophet Muhammad, are not
                      answered by
                      > > > them, but are answered by God. Consequently, prayer is an act
                      of
                      > > > worship which should be directed to God alone.
                      > > >
                      > > > Indeed, prophets who are worshipped besides Him did not tell
                      > > people
                      > > > to worship them. Instead, the prophets warned their people
                      against
                      > > > doing just that. For example, Islam teaches that Prophet Jesus
                      > > > (mercy and peace of God be upon him) was a human being who was
                      > > > created by God in a miraculous way.
                      > > >
                      > > > He was born of a mother, Mary, without a father and he
                      worshipped
                      > > > God. He was not God, nor was he the son of God. He was neither
                      one
                      > > > of three manifestations of God as Christians say, nor was a
                      son
                      > > born
                      > > > out of wedlock as the Jews say.
                      > > >
                      > > > He told his people (the tribes of Israel) to worship God
                      alone. He
                      > > > did not tell people to worship either himself or his mother.
                      > > > Furthermore, Prophet Jesus (mercy and peace of God be upon
                      him)
                      > > did
                      > > > not worship himself when he worshipped, rather he worshipped
                      God.
                      > > >
                      > > > However, those who claim to be the followers of Jesus Christ
                      today
                      > > > worship Jesus himself, claiming that he is God, and others
                      also
                      > > > worship his mother calling her `the mother of God.'! God says
                      in
                      > > the
                      > > > Qur'an that He will ask Prophet Jesus (mercy and peace of God
                      be
                      > > > upon him) on the Day of Judgment:
                      > > >
                      > > > Quarn chp 5: verses 116-117.
                      > > > O Jesus, son of Mary! Did you tell people: Take me and my
                      mother
                      > > as
                      > > > gods besides Allah? Then he will say: Glory to you, I could
                      never
                      > > > say what I had no right to say. If I had said it, You would
                      have
                      > > > known it, You know what is within myself, but I do not know
                      what
                      > > is
                      > > > within Yourself. Verily, You alone are the Knower of the
                      unseen. I
                      > > > did not say to them except what You commanded me; to worship
                      > > Allah,
                      > > > my Lord and your Lord, and I was a witness over them as long
                      as I
                      > > > was among them, but when You raised me up, You were the
                      observer
                      > > > over them, and You are the witness over all things.
                      > > >
                      > > > God emphasizes in the Qur'an that Prophet Jesus (mercy and
                      peace
                      > > of
                      > > > God be upon him) was neither killed nor crucified, but God
                      raised
                      > > > him up into the heavens in body and spirit and he will be
                      returned
                      > > > to the earth before the end of the world. Prophet Muhammad
                      (mercy
                      > > > and peace of God be upon him) stated that Prohet Jesus would
                      rule
                      > > > the earth according to the Islamic law, then he will die on
                      earth
                      > > > like other human beings and will be buried and resurrected
                      like
                      > > them
                      > > > on the Day of Judgment. Hence, Prophet Jesus who was given
                      life,
                      > > was
                      > > > born from a woman's womb and circumcised, ate, slept, went to
                      the
                      > > > toilet, grew up, prayed, and will die, should never be taken
                      as
                      > > God
                      > > > as all these characteristics are not the attributes of God,
                      but of
                      > > > His creatures.
                      > > >
                      > > > The New Testament states that Jesus Christ taught his
                      followers to
                      > > > pray to God saying:
                      > > >
                      > > > (Luke 11:2 / Matthew 6:9-10)
                      > > > Our Father who art in heaven, hallowed be your name, your
                      kingdom
                      > > > come, your will be done on earth as it is in heaven."
                      > > >
                      > > > Also, he taught that only those who submit to God would
                      inherit
                      > > > paradise:
                      > > >
                      > > > (Matthew 7:21)
                      > > > None of those who call me `Lord' will enter the Kingdom of
                      God,
                      > > > except one who does the will of my Father in heaven.
                      > > >
                      > > > Prophet Jesus also pointed out that he himself submitted to
                      the
                      > > will
                      > > > of God:
                      > > >
                      > > > (John 5:23)
                      > > > I cannot do anything of myself. I judge as I hear and my
                      judgment
                      > > > is honest because I am not seeking my own will but the will of
                      Him
                      > > > who sent me.
                      > > >
                      > > > In fact, there are many reports in the Gospels that show that
                      > > > Prophet Jesus made it clear to his followers that he was not
                      God.
                      > > > For example, when speaking about the final hour, he said:
                      > > >
                      > > > (Mark 13:32)
                      > > > No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in
                      > > heaven,
                      > > > not the son, but only the Father.
                      > > >
                      > > > Buddha, was a reformer who introduced a number of humanistic
                      > > > principles in the Hindu religion practiced in India. He did
                      not
                      > > > claim to be God, nor did he suggest to his followers that he
                      be
                      > > > worshipped. Yet, today most Buddhists have made him their God
                      and
                      > > > they prostrate themselves before idols representing his
                      likeness.
                      > > > In brief, from the perspective of the object worshipped, all
                      > > > religions today [except Islam] invite people to the worship of
                      > > > creation!
                      > > >
                      > > > God's attributes point to the fact that God alone deserves
                      > > worship.
                      > > > He is One, without relatives; He has neither father, son,
                      mother
                      > > nor
                      > > > wife. He is the Eternal Absolute. He neither gives birth, nor
                      is
                      > > He
                      > >
                      > === message truncated ===
                      >
                      >
                      > =====
                      > ------------------------------------------------------------
                      >
                      > "Have you ever stood and stared at it? Marveled at its beauty?;
                      its genius. Billions of people, just living out their lives --
                      oblivious."
                      >
                      > __________________________________
                      > Do you Yahoo!?
                      > Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard - Read only the mail you want.
                      > http://antispam.yahoo.com/tools
                    • A. W.
                      My brain, an extraterrestrial being in area 51. My soul, being ethereal, i stay in earth and become a ghost and have fun scaring people. Then when i get bored
                      Message 10 of 24 , Feb 23, 2004
                      • 0 Attachment
                        My brain, an extraterrestrial being in area 51.
                        My soul, being ethereal, i stay in earth and become a ghost and have fun scaring people. Then when
                        i get bored i will go to heaven and smoke an ethereal marijuana joint with god.

                        --- honeybaby2012 <honeybaby2012@...> wrote:
                        > AW,
                        > Tell me, who created your brain?.
                        > Where does your soul go when you die?.
                        > My best wishes?
                        >
                        > --- In theexistentialsociety@yahoogroups.com, "A. W." <altool4@y...>
                        > wrote:
                        > >
                        > > Oh no, we have a 1 tune trompet player.
                        > > Please do not be closed minded. Do not talk about concepts like
                        > creation, supreme being or "reason
                        > > for existence" like if you have already find their meaning. I
                        > understand you need security and
                        > > some kind of backup for you to hold on unto life, but let me tell
                        > you, do not be sattisfied, never
                        > > be sure, because for what i am conscious of, maybe is all we got.
                        > Our concept of the universe
                        > > keeps changing throught human evolution and knowledge is relative,
                        > you need to understand
                        > > everything changes, and that includes meaning and concepts.
                        > Hopefully, people will understand
                        > > religion and government are just forms of manipulation and control
                        > of the human, in his
                        > > metaphisycal mind and in the way he exists in society.
                        > > For you to evolve, you need to kill god NOW, before is too late!.
                        > Kill the god image of all of
                        > > this religions and find your way to understand existence and
                        > program your reality into your brain.
                        > > Understand your brain, understand the sistematic society,
                        > understand power and control, reality is
                        > > flexible into eternity and there is an infinite of paths you can
                        > choose from, thats what makes
                        > > this moment eternal, and thats whats make everything eternal, the
                        > same way you and your brain can
                        > > reach eternity in reality.
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > --- honeybaby2012 <honeybaby2012@y...> wrote:
                        > > > Helen,
                        > > > This is not dogma, but a clear message from your creator & my
                        > > > creator, the Supreme Being telling us the reason for our
                        > existence,
                        > > > and what we are supposed to do during our brief stay on the
                        > planet
                        > > > Earth.
                        > > >
                        > > > With my best wishes.
                        > > > --- In theexistentialsociety@yahoogroups.com, helen steen
                        > > > <hjsgermany2000@y...> wrote:
                        > > > > Ok Honey,
                        > > > > Why this site?
                        > > > > What relevance has all this dogma got to Existentialism?
                        > > > > I don't get it.
                        > > > > Helen
                        > > > >
                        > > > > honeybaby2012 <honeybaby2012@y...> wrote:
                        > > > > II. THE BASIC MESSAGE OF ISLAM
                        > > > >
                        > > > > The basic message of Islam is the same message of all the
                        > previous
                        > > > > prophets: worship God alone and avoid worshipping anything
                        > besides
                        > > > > Him, whether it is a person, place or thing, directly or
                        > > > indirectly.
                        > > > > This basic principle of Monotheism is contained in the opening
                        > > > > chapter of the Quran, known as Soorat Al-Faatihah, verse
                        > 4: "You
                        > > > > alone we worship and from you alone we do seek help."
                        > > > >
                        > > > > In chp 4: verse 37, God also said:
                        > > > > Worship Allah and do not associate partners with Him.
                        > > > >
                        > > > > Muhammad, the last Prophet (mercy and peace of God be upon
                        > him) is
                        > > > > reported to have said: "Anyone who says: There is no god
                        > worthy of
                        > > > > worship but Allah, and dies holding that belief will be
                        > granted
                        > > > > paradise.
                        > > > >
                        > > > >
                        > > > > II. PROOFS FOR GOD'S RIGHT OF WORSHIP
                        > > > >
                        > > > > Only God should be worshipped because He is the Creator and
                        > > > > sustainer of all that exists. This Great Universe and
                        > everything
                        > > > > that is in it cannot be the product of chance, and could not
                        > have
                        > > > > created itself. Signs testifying that God is the only Creator
                        > can
                        > > > be
                        > > > > seen throughout the earth and in the very soul of each person.
                        > God
                        > > > > said in the Qur'an:
                        > > > >
                        > > > > Quran chp 14: verses 32-34
                        > > > > It is Allah who Ceated the Sky and the Earth, and sent down
                        > from
                        > > > the
                        > > > > sky water by which He brought forth fruits for your
                        > sustenance. He
                        > > > > subjected for you the Ships to sail upon the Sea at His
                        > command,
                        > > > and
                        > > > > He subjected for you the Rivers. And He subjected for you the
                        > Sun
                        > > > > and Moon in continuous cycles, and He subjected for you the
                        > Night
                        > > > > and Day. And He gave you all you asked Him for.
                        > > > >
                        > > > > In the Qur'an, God mentions Prophet Abraham's search for truth
                        > as
                        > > > an
                        > > > > example of how those who follow God's signs will be rightly
                        > guided
                        > > > > to the worship of Him alone; God said:
                        > > > > Quarn chp 6: verses 75-79
                        > > > > In this way we showed Abraham the kingdom of the heavens and
                        > the
                        > > > > earth so that he would have faith with understanding and
                        > > > certainty.
                        > > > > When the night covered him with darkness, he saw a star and
                        > > > > said: `This is my Lord', but when it set, he said: `I don't
                        > like
                        > > > > those that set.' When he saw the moon rising up, he said:
                        > `This is
                        > > > > my Lord', but when it set, he said: `Unless my Lord guides me,
                        > I
                        > > > > will certainly be among the people who went astray.' When he
                        > saw
                        > > > the
                        > > > > sun rising up he said: `This is my Lord, this is the greatest
                        > of
                        > > > > all.' But when it set, he said: `O my people! I am indeed free
                        > > > from
                        > > > > what you join as partners with Allah.
                        > > > > Verily, I have turned my face towards Allah who created the
                        > > > heavens
                        > > > > and the earth and I reject those who associate partners with
                        > Allah
                        > > > > (in worship).
                        > > > >
                        > > > > Actually, in the Qur'an God calls people to continuously look
                        > at
                        > > > the
                        > > > > Universe, as this will
                        > > > > affirm the divine truth of His existence, His greatness and
                        > that
                        > > > He
                        > > > > alone should be worshipped. God alone deserves our worship
                        > because
                        > > > > only He can answer our prayers. God says in the Qur'an:
                        > > > >
                        > > > > Quarn chp 40: verses 60.
                        > > > > "And your Lord says: Call on Me and I will answer your
                        > prayer."
                        > > > >
                        > > > > Hence, if a human being prays to an idol and his prayers are
                        > > > > answered, it is not the idol which actually answered his
                        > prayers
                        > > > but
                        > > > > God. Similarly, prayers to Jesus Christ, Buddha, Krishna,
                        > Saint
                        > > > > Christopher, Saint Jude or to Prophet Muhammad, are not
                        > answered by
                        > > > > them, but are answered by God. Consequently, prayer is an act
                        > of
                        > > > > worship which should be directed to God alone.
                        > > > >
                        > > > > Indeed, prophets who are worshipped besides Him did not tell
                        > > > people
                        > > > > to worship them. Instead, the prophets warned their people
                        > against
                        > > > > doing just that. For example, Islam teaches that Prophet Jesus
                        > > > > (mercy and peace of God be upon him) was a human being who was
                        > > > > created by God in a miraculous way.
                        > > > >
                        > > > > He was born of a mother, Mary, without a father and he
                        > worshipped
                        > > > > God. He was not God, nor was he the son of God. He was neither
                        > one
                        > > > > of three manifestations of God as Christians say, nor was a
                        > son
                        > > > born
                        > > > > out of wedlock as the Jews say.
                        > > > >
                        > > > > He told his people (the tribes of Israel) to worship God
                        > alone. He
                        > > > > did not tell people to worship either himself or his mother.
                        > > > > Furthermore, Prophet Jesus (mercy and peace of God be upon
                        > him)
                        > > > did
                        > > > > not worship himself when he worshipped, rather he worshipped
                        > God.
                        > > > >
                        > > > > However, those who claim to be the followers of Jesus Christ
                        > today
                        > > > > worship Jesus himself, claiming that he is God, and others
                        > also
                        > > > > worship his mother calling her `the mother of God.'! God says
                        > in
                        >
                        === message truncated ===


                        =====
                        ------------------------------------------------------------

                        "Have you ever stood and stared at it? Marveled at its beauty?; its genius. Billions of people, just living out their lives -- oblivious."

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                      • helen steen
                        And mine, developed from the ectoderm during an extremely complex process, still as yet not fully understood, during embryological development. Also
                        Message 11 of 24 , Feb 23, 2004
                        • 0 Attachment
                          And mine, developed from the ectoderm during an extremely complex process, still as yet not fully understood, during embryological development. Also approximately the same number of years ago as AW's, coincidently.
                          My soul, if I have one? Well I have no idea where it might go when I die.
                          Helen

                          "A. W." <altool4@...> wrote:

                          My brain, an extraterrestrial being in area 51.
                          My soul, being ethereal, i stay in earth and become a ghost and have fun scaring people. Then when
                          i get bored i will go to heaven and smoke an ethereal marijuana joint with god.

                          --- honeybaby2012 <honeybaby2012@...> wrote:
                          > AW,
                          > Tell me, who created your brain?.
                          > Where does your soul go when you die?.
                          > My best wishes?
                          >
                          > --- In theexistentialsociety@yahoogroups.com, "A. W." <altool4@y...>
                          > wrote:
                          > >
                          > > Oh no, we have a 1 tune trompet player.
                          > > Please do not be closed minded. Do not talk about concepts like
                          > creation, supreme being or "reason
                          > > for existence" like if you have already find their meaning. I
                          > understand you need security and
                          > > some kind of backup for you to hold on unto life, but let me tell
                          > you, do not be sattisfied, never
                          > > be sure, because for what i am conscious of, maybe is all we got.
                          > Our concept of the universe
                          > > keeps changing throught human evolution and knowledge is relative,
                          > you need to understand
                          > > everything changes, and that includes meaning and concepts.
                          > Hopefully, people will understand
                          > > religion and government are just forms of manipulation and control
                          > of the human, in his
                          > > metaphisycal mind and in the way he exists in society.
                          > > For you to evolve, you need to kill god NOW, before is too late!.
                          > Kill the god image of all of
                          > > this religions and find your way to understand existence and
                          > program your reality into your brain.
                          > > Understand your brain, understand the sistematic society,
                          > understand power and control, reality is
                          > > flexible into eternity and there is an infinite of paths you can
                          > choose from, thats what makes
                          > > this moment eternal, and thats whats make everything eternal, the
                          > same way you and your brain can
                          > > reach eternity in reality.
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > --- honeybaby2012 <honeybaby2012@y...> wrote:
                          > > > Helen,
                          > > > This is not dogma, but a clear message from your creator & my
                          > > > creator, the Supreme Being telling us the reason for our
                          > existence,
                          > > > and what we are supposed to do during our brief stay on the
                          > planet
                          > > > Earth.
                          > > >
                          > > > With my best wishes.
                          > > > --- In theexistentialsociety@yahoogroups.com, helen steen
                          > > > <hjsgermany2000@y...> wrote:
                          > > > > Ok Honey,
                          > > > > Why this site?
                          > > > > What relevance has all this dogma got to Existentialism?
                          > > > > I don't get it.
                          > > > > Helen
                          > > > >
                          > > > > honeybaby2012 <honeybaby2012@y...> wrote:
                          > > > > II. THE BASIC MESSAGE OF ISLAM
                          > > > >
                          > > > > The basic message of Islam is the same message of all the
                          > previous
                          > > > > prophets: worship God alone and avoid worshipping anything
                          > besides
                          > > > > Him, whether it is a person, place or thing, directly or
                          > > > indirectly.
                          > > > > This basic principle of Monotheism is contained in the opening
                          > > > > chapter of the Quran, known as Soorat Al-Faatihah, verse
                          > 4: "You
                          > > > > alone we worship and from you alone we do seek help."
                          > > > >
                          > > > > In chp 4: verse 37, God also said:
                          > > > > Worship Allah and do not associate partners with Him.
                          > > > >
                          > > > > Muhammad, the last Prophet (mercy and peace of God be upon
                          > him) is
                          > > > > reported to have said: "Anyone who says: There is no god
                          > worthy of
                          > > > > worship but Allah, and dies holding that belief will be
                          > granted
                          > > > > paradise.
                          > > > >
                          > > > >
                          > > > > II. PROOFS FOR GOD'S RIGHT OF WORSHIP
                          > > > >
                          > > > > Only God should be worshipped because He is the Creator and
                          > > > > sustainer of all that exists. This Great Universe and
                          > everything
                          > > > > that is in it cannot be the product of chance, and could not
                          > have
                          > > > > created itself. Signs testifying that God is the only Creator
                          > can
                          > > > be
                          > > > > seen throughout the earth and in the very soul of each person.
                          > God
                          > > > > said in the Qur'an:
                          > > > >
                          > > > > Quran chp 14: verses 32-34
                          > > > > It is Allah who Ceated the Sky and the Earth, and sent down
                          > from
                          > > > the
                          > > > > sky water by which He brought forth fruits for your
                          > sustenance. He
                          > > > > subjected for you the Ships to sail upon the Sea at His
                          > command,
                          > > > and
                          > > > > He subjected for you the Rivers. And He subjected for you the
                          > Sun
                          > > > > and Moon in continuous cycles, and He subjected for you the
                          > Night
                          > > > > and Day. And He gave you all you asked Him for.
                          > > > >
                          > > > > In the Qur'an, God mentions Prophet Abraham's search for truth
                          > as
                          > > > an
                          > > > > example of how those who follow God's signs will be rightly
                          > guided
                          > > > > to the worship of Him alone; God said:
                          > > > > Quarn chp 6: verses 75-79
                          > > > > In this way we showed Abraham the kingdom of the heavens and
                          > the
                          > > > > earth so that he would have faith with understanding and
                          > > > certainty.
                          > > > > When the night covered him with darkness, he saw a star and
                          > > > > said: `This is my Lord', but when it set, he said: `I don't
                          > like
                          > > > > those that set.' When he saw the moon rising up, he said:
                          > `This is
                          > > > > my Lord', but when it set, he said: `Unless my Lord guides me,
                          > I
                          > > > > will certainly be among the people who went astray.' When he
                          > saw
                          > > > the
                          > > > > sun rising up he said: `This is my Lord, this is the greatest
                          > of
                          > > > > all.' But when it set, he said: `O my people! I am indeed free
                          > > > from
                          > > > > what you join as partners with Allah.
                          > > > > Verily, I have turned my face towards Allah who created the
                          > > > heavens
                          > > > > and the earth and I reject those who associate partners with
                          > Allah
                          > > > > (in worship).
                          > > > >
                          > > > > Actually, in the Qur'an God calls people to continuously look
                          > at
                          > > > the
                          > > > > Universe, as this will
                          > > > > affirm the divine truth of His existence, His greatness and
                          > that
                          > > > He
                          > > > > alone should be worshipped. God alone deserves our worship
                          > because
                          > > > > only He can answer our prayers. God says in the Qur'an:
                          > > > >
                          > > > > Quarn chp 40: verses 60.
                          > > > > "And your Lord says: Call on Me and I will answer your
                          > prayer."
                          > > > >
                          > > > > Hence, if a human being prays to an idol and his prayers are
                          > > > > answered, it is not the idol which actually answered his
                          > prayers
                          > > > but
                          > > > > God. Similarly, prayers to Jesus Christ, Buddha, Krishna,
                          > Saint
                          > > > > Christopher, Saint Jude or to Prophet Muhammad, are not
                          > answered by
                          > > > > them, but are answered by God. Consequently, prayer is an act
                          > of
                          > > > > worship which should be directed to God alone.
                          > > > >
                          > > > > Indeed, prophets who are worshipped besides Him did not tell
                          > > > people
                          > > > > to worship them. Instead, the prophets warned their people
                          > against
                          > > > > doing just that. For example, Islam teaches that Prophet Jesus
                          > > > > (mercy and peace of God be upon him) was a human being who was
                          > > > > created by God in a miraculous way.
                          > > > >
                          > > > > He was born of a mother, Mary, without a father and he
                          > worshipped
                          > > > > God. He was not God, nor was he the son of God. He was neither
                          > one
                          > > > > of three manifestations of God as Christians say, nor was a
                          > son
                          > > > born
                          > > > > out of wedlock as the Jews say.
                          > > > >
                          > > > > He told his people (the tribes of Israel) to worship God
                          > alone. He
                          > > > > did not tell people to worship either himself or his mother.
                          > > > > Furthermore, Prophet Jesus (mercy and peace of God be upon
                          > him)
                          > > > did
                          > > > > not worship himself when he worshipped, rather he worshipped
                          > God.
                          > > > >
                          > > > > However, those who claim to be the followers of Jesus Christ
                          > today
                          > > > > worship Jesus himself, claiming that he is God, and others
                          > also
                          > > > > worship his mother calling her `the mother of God.'! God says
                          > in
                          >
                          === message truncated ===


                          =====
                          ------------------------------------------------------------

                          "Have you ever stood and stared at it? Marveled at its beauty?; its genius. Billions of people, just living out their lives -- oblivious."

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                        • honeybaby2012
                          AW So You do not have the answer for the 1st question. for the 2nd question, you quoted (I will go to heaven) ie you referred to facts coming from
                          Message 12 of 24 , Feb 25, 2004
                          • 0 Attachment
                            AW
                            So You do not have the answer for the 1st question.
                            for the 2nd question, you quoted (I will go to heaven) ie you
                            referred to facts coming from scriptures/religion.

                            --- In theexistentialsociety@yahoogroups.com, "A. W." <altool4@y...>
                            wrote:
                            >
                            > My brain, an extraterrestrial being in area 51.
                            > My soul, being ethereal, i stay in earth and become a ghost and
                            have fun scaring people. Then when
                            > i get bored i will go to heaven and smoke an ethereal marijuana
                            joint with god.
                            >
                            > --- honeybaby2012 <honeybaby2012@y...> wrote:
                            > > AW,
                            > > Tell me, who created your brain?.
                            > > Where does your soul go when you die?.
                            > > My best wishes?
                            > >
                            > > --- In theexistentialsociety@yahoogroups.com, "A. W."
                            <altool4@y...>
                            > > wrote:
                            > > >
                            > > > Oh no, we have a 1 tune trompet player.
                            > > > Please do not be closed minded. Do not talk about concepts
                            like
                            > > creation, supreme being or "reason
                            > > > for existence" like if you have already find their meaning. I
                            > > understand you need security and
                            > > > some kind of backup for you to hold on unto life, but let me
                            tell
                            > > you, do not be sattisfied, never
                            > > > be sure, because for what i am conscious of, maybe is all we
                            got.
                            > > Our concept of the universe
                            > > > keeps changing throught human evolution and knowledge is
                            relative,
                            > > you need to understand
                            > > > everything changes, and that includes meaning and concepts.
                            > > Hopefully, people will understand
                            > > > religion and government are just forms of manipulation and
                            control
                            > > of the human, in his
                            > > > metaphisycal mind and in the way he exists in society.
                            > > > For you to evolve, you need to kill god NOW, before is too
                            late!.
                            > > Kill the god image of all of
                            > > > this religions and find your way to understand existence and
                            > > program your reality into your brain.
                            > > > Understand your brain, understand the sistematic society,
                            > > understand power and control, reality is
                            > > > flexible into eternity and there is an infinite of paths you
                            can
                            > > choose from, thats what makes
                            > > > this moment eternal, and thats whats make everything eternal,
                            the
                            > > same way you and your brain can
                            > > > reach eternity in reality.
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > > --- honeybaby2012 <honeybaby2012@y...> wrote:
                            > > > > Helen,
                            > > > > This is not dogma, but a clear message from your creator &
                            my
                            > > > > creator, the Supreme Being telling us the reason for our
                            > > existence,
                            > > > > and what we are supposed to do during our brief stay on the
                            > > planet
                            > > > > Earth.
                            > > > >
                            > > > > With my best wishes.
                            > > > > --- In theexistentialsociety@yahoogroups.com, helen steen
                            > > > > <hjsgermany2000@y...> wrote:
                            > > > > > Ok Honey,
                            > > > > > Why this site?
                            > > > > > What relevance has all this dogma got to Existentialism?
                            > > > > > I don't get it.
                            > > > > > Helen
                            > > > > >
                            > > > > > honeybaby2012 <honeybaby2012@y...> wrote:
                            > > > > > II. THE BASIC MESSAGE OF ISLAM
                            > > > > >
                            > > > > > The basic message of Islam is the same message of all the
                            > > previous
                            > > > > > prophets: worship God alone and avoid worshipping anything
                            > > besides
                            > > > > > Him, whether it is a person, place or thing, directly or
                            > > > > indirectly.
                            > > > > > This basic principle of Monotheism is contained in the
                            opening
                            > > > > > chapter of the Quran, known as Soorat Al-Faatihah, verse
                            > > 4: "You
                            > > > > > alone we worship and from you alone we do seek help."
                            > > > > >
                            > > > > > In chp 4: verse 37, God also said:
                            > > > > > Worship Allah and do not associate partners with Him.
                            > > > > >
                            > > > > > Muhammad, the last Prophet (mercy and peace of God be upon
                            > > him) is
                            > > > > > reported to have said: "Anyone who says: There is no god
                            > > worthy of
                            > > > > > worship but Allah, and dies holding that belief will be
                            > > granted
                            > > > > > paradise.
                            > > > > >
                            > > > > >
                            > > > > > II. PROOFS FOR GOD'S RIGHT OF WORSHIP
                            > > > > >
                            > > > > > Only God should be worshipped because He is the Creator
                            and
                            > > > > > sustainer of all that exists. This Great Universe and
                            > > everything
                            > > > > > that is in it cannot be the product of chance, and could
                            not
                            > > have
                            > > > > > created itself. Signs testifying that God is the only
                            Creator
                            > > can
                            > > > > be
                            > > > > > seen throughout the earth and in the very soul of each
                            person.
                            > > God
                            > > > > > said in the Qur'an:
                            > > > > >
                            > > > > > Quran chp 14: verses 32-34
                            > > > > > It is Allah who Ceated the Sky and the Earth, and sent
                            down
                            > > from
                            > > > > the
                            > > > > > sky water by which He brought forth fruits for your
                            > > sustenance. He
                            > > > > > subjected for you the Ships to sail upon the Sea at His
                            > > command,
                            > > > > and
                            > > > > > He subjected for you the Rivers. And He subjected for you
                            the
                            > > Sun
                            > > > > > and Moon in continuous cycles, and He subjected for you
                            the
                            > > Night
                            > > > > > and Day. And He gave you all you asked Him for.
                            > > > > >
                            > > > > > In the Qur'an, God mentions Prophet Abraham's search for
                            truth
                            > > as
                            > > > > an
                            > > > > > example of how those who follow God's signs will be
                            rightly
                            > > guided
                            > > > > > to the worship of Him alone; God said:
                            > > > > > Quarn chp 6: verses 75-79
                            > > > > > In this way we showed Abraham the kingdom of the heavens
                            and
                            > > the
                            > > > > > earth so that he would have faith with understanding and
                            > > > > certainty.
                            > > > > > When the night covered him with darkness, he saw a star
                            and
                            > > > > > said: `This is my Lord', but when it set, he said: `I
                            don't
                            > > like
                            > > > > > those that set.' When he saw the moon rising up, he said:
                            > > `This is
                            > > > > > my Lord', but when it set, he said: `Unless my Lord guides
                            me,
                            > > I
                            > > > > > will certainly be among the people who went astray.' When
                            he
                            > > saw
                            > > > > the
                            > > > > > sun rising up he said: `This is my Lord, this is the
                            greatest
                            > > of
                            > > > > > all.' But when it set, he said: `O my people! I am indeed
                            free
                            > > > > from
                            > > > > > what you join as partners with Allah.
                            > > > > > Verily, I have turned my face towards Allah who created
                            the
                            > > > > heavens
                            > > > > > and the earth and I reject those who associate partners
                            with
                            > > Allah
                            > > > > > (in worship).
                            > > > > >
                            > > > > > Actually, in the Qur'an God calls people to continuously
                            look
                            > > at
                            > > > > the
                            > > > > > Universe, as this will
                            > > > > > affirm the divine truth of His existence, His greatness
                            and
                            > > that
                            > > > > He
                            > > > > > alone should be worshipped. God alone deserves our worship
                            > > because
                            > > > > > only He can answer our prayers. God says in the Qur'an:
                            > > > > >
                            > > > > > Quarn chp 40: verses 60.
                            > > > > > "And your Lord says: Call on Me and I will answer your
                            > > prayer."
                            > > > > >
                            > > > > > Hence, if a human being prays to an idol and his prayers
                            are
                            > > > > > answered, it is not the idol which actually answered his
                            > > prayers
                            > > > > but
                            > > > > > God. Similarly, prayers to Jesus Christ, Buddha, Krishna,
                            > > Saint
                            > > > > > Christopher, Saint Jude or to Prophet Muhammad, are not
                            > > answered by
                            > > > > > them, but are answered by God. Consequently, prayer is an
                            act
                            > > of
                            > > > > > worship which should be directed to God alone.
                            > > > > >
                            > > > > > Indeed, prophets who are worshipped besides Him did not
                            tell
                            > > > > people
                            > > > > > to worship them. Instead, the prophets warned their people
                            > > against
                            > > > > > doing just that. For example, Islam teaches that Prophet
                            Jesus
                            > > > > > (mercy and peace of God be upon him) was a human being who
                            was
                            > > > > > created by God in a miraculous way.
                            > > > > >
                            > > > > > He was born of a mother, Mary, without a father and he
                            > > worshipped
                            > > > > > God. He was not God, nor was he the son of God. He was
                            neither
                            > > one
                            > > > > > of three manifestations of God as Christians say, nor was
                            a
                            > > son
                            > > > > born
                            > > > > > out of wedlock as the Jews say.
                            > > > > >
                            > > > > > He told his people (the tribes of Israel) to worship God
                            > > alone. He
                            > > > > > did not tell people to worship either himself or his
                            mother.
                            > > > > > Furthermore, Prophet Jesus (mercy and peace of God be upon
                            > > him)
                            > > > > did
                            > > > > > not worship himself when he worshipped, rather he
                            worshipped
                            > > God.
                            > > > > >
                            > > > > > However, those who claim to be the followers of Jesus
                            Christ
                            > > today
                            > > > > > worship Jesus himself, claiming that he is God, and others
                            > > also
                            > > > > > worship his mother calling her `the mother of God.'! God
                            says
                            > > in
                            > >
                            > === message truncated ===
                            >
                            >
                            > =====
                            > ------------------------------------------------------------
                            >
                            > "Have you ever stood and stared at it? Marveled at its beauty?;
                            its genius. Billions of people, just living out their lives --
                            oblivious."
                            >
                            > __________________________________
                            > Do you Yahoo!?
                            > Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard - Read only the mail you want.
                            > http://antispam.yahoo.com/tools
                          • honeybaby2012
                            Helen, Same as AW, you have no clue what I am talking about. May God guide you to the truth. ... process, still as yet not fully understood, during
                            Message 13 of 24 , Feb 25, 2004
                            • 0 Attachment
                              Helen,
                              Same as AW, you have no clue what I am talking about.
                              May God guide you to the truth.

                              --- In theexistentialsociety@yahoogroups.com, helen steen
                              <hjsgermany2000@y...> wrote:
                              > And mine, developed from the ectoderm during an extremely complex
                              process, still as yet not fully understood, during embryological
                              development. Also approximately the same number of years ago as
                              AW's, coincidently.
                              > My soul, if I have one? Well I have no idea where it might go when
                              I die.
                              > Helen
                              >
                              > "A. W." <altool4@y...> wrote:
                              >
                              > My brain, an extraterrestrial being in area 51.
                              > My soul, being ethereal, i stay in earth and become a ghost and
                              have fun scaring people. Then when
                              > i get bored i will go to heaven and smoke an ethereal marijuana
                              joint with god.
                              >
                              > --- honeybaby2012 <honeybaby2012@y...> wrote:
                              > > AW,
                              > > Tell me, who created your brain?.
                              > > Where does your soul go when you die?.
                              > > My best wishes?
                              > >
                              > > --- In theexistentialsociety@yahoogroups.com, "A. W."
                              <altool4@y...>
                              > > wrote:
                              > > >
                              > > > Oh no, we have a 1 tune trompet player.
                              > > > Please do not be closed minded. Do not talk about concepts
                              like
                              > > creation, supreme being or "reason
                              > > > for existence" like if you have already find their meaning. I
                              > > understand you need security and
                              > > > some kind of backup for you to hold on unto life, but let me
                              tell
                              > > you, do not be sattisfied, never
                              > > > be sure, because for what i am conscious of, maybe is all we
                              got.
                              > > Our concept of the universe
                              > > > keeps changing throught human evolution and knowledge is
                              relative,
                              > > you need to understand
                              > > > everything changes, and that includes meaning and concepts.
                              > > Hopefully, people will understand
                              > > > religion and government are just forms of manipulation and
                              control
                              > > of the human, in his
                              > > > metaphisycal mind and in the way he exists in society.
                              > > > For you to evolve, you need to kill god NOW, before is too
                              late!.
                              > > Kill the god image of all of
                              > > > this religions and find your way to understand existence and
                              > > program your reality into your brain.
                              > > > Understand your brain, understand the sistematic society,
                              > > understand power and control, reality is
                              > > > flexible into eternity and there is an infinite of paths you
                              can
                              > > choose from, thats what makes
                              > > > this moment eternal, and thats whats make everything eternal,
                              the
                              > > same way you and your brain can
                              > > > reach eternity in reality.
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > > --- honeybaby2012 <honeybaby2012@y...> wrote:
                              > > > > Helen,
                              > > > > This is not dogma, but a clear message from your creator &
                              my
                              > > > > creator, the Supreme Being telling us the reason for our
                              > > existence,
                              > > > > and what we are supposed to do during our brief stay on the
                              > > planet
                              > > > > Earth.
                              > > > >
                              > > > > With my best wishes.
                              > > > > --- In theexistentialsociety@yahoogroups.com, helen steen
                              > > > > <hjsgermany2000@y...> wrote:
                              > > > > > Ok Honey,
                              > > > > > Why this site?
                              > > > > > What relevance has all this dogma got to Existentialism?
                              > > > > > I don't get it.
                              > > > > > Helen
                              > > > > >
                              > > > > > honeybaby2012 <honeybaby2012@y...> wrote:
                              > > > > > II. THE BASIC MESSAGE OF ISLAM
                              > > > > >
                              > > > > > The basic message of Islam is the same message of all the
                              > > previous
                              > > > > > prophets: worship God alone and avoid worshipping anything
                              > > besides
                              > > > > > Him, whether it is a person, place or thing, directly or
                              > > > > indirectly.
                              > > > > > This basic principle of Monotheism is contained in the
                              opening
                              > > > > > chapter of the Quran, known as Soorat Al-Faatihah, verse
                              > > 4: "You
                              > > > > > alone we worship and from you alone we do seek help."
                              > > > > >
                              > > > > > In chp 4: verse 37, God also said:
                              > > > > > Worship Allah and do not associate partners with Him.
                              > > > > >
                              > > > > > Muhammad, the last Prophet (mercy and peace of God be upon
                              > > him) is
                              > > > > > reported to have said: "Anyone who says: There is no god
                              > > worthy of
                              > > > > > worship but Allah, and dies holding that belief will be
                              > > granted
                              > > > > > paradise.
                              > > > > >
                              > > > > >
                              > > > > > II. PROOFS FOR GOD'S RIGHT OF WORSHIP
                              > > > > >
                              > > > > > Only God should be worshipped because He is the Creator
                              and
                              > > > > > sustainer of all that exists. This Great Universe and
                              > > everything
                              > > > > > that is in it cannot be the product of chance, and could
                              not
                              > > have
                              > > > > > created itself. Signs testifying that God is the only
                              Creator
                              > > can
                              > > > > be
                              > > > > > seen throughout the earth and in the very soul of each
                              person.
                              > > God
                              > > > > > said in the Qur'an:
                              > > > > >
                              > > > > > Quran chp 14: verses 32-34
                              > > > > > It is Allah who Ceated the Sky and the Earth, and sent
                              down
                              > > from
                              > > > > the
                              > > > > > sky water by which He brought forth fruits for your
                              > > sustenance. He
                              > > > > > subjected for you the Ships to sail upon the Sea at His
                              > > command,
                              > > > > and
                              > > > > > He subjected for you the Rivers. And He subjected for you
                              the
                              > > Sun
                              > > > > > and Moon in continuous cycles, and He subjected for you
                              the
                              > > Night
                              > > > > > and Day. And He gave you all you asked Him for.
                              > > > > >
                              > > > > > In the Qur'an, God mentions Prophet Abraham's search for
                              truth
                              > > as
                              > > > > an
                              > > > > > example of how those who follow God's signs will be
                              rightly
                              > > guided
                              > > > > > to the worship of Him alone; God said:
                              > > > > > Quarn chp 6: verses 75-79
                              > > > > > In this way we showed Abraham the kingdom of the heavens
                              and
                              > > the
                              > > > > > earth so that he would have faith with understanding and
                              > > > > certainty.
                              > > > > > When the night covered him with darkness, he saw a star
                              and
                              > > > > > said: `This is my Lord', but when it set, he said: `I
                              don't
                              > > like
                              > > > > > those that set.' When he saw the moon rising up, he said:
                              > > `This is
                              > > > > > my Lord', but when it set, he said: `Unless my Lord guides
                              me,
                              > > I
                              > > > > > will certainly be among the people who went astray.' When
                              he
                              > > saw
                              > > > > the
                              > > > > > sun rising up he said: `This is my Lord, this is the
                              greatest
                              > > of
                              > > > > > all.' But when it set, he said: `O my people! I am indeed
                              free
                              > > > > from
                              > > > > > what you join as partners with Allah.
                              > > > > > Verily, I have turned my face towards Allah who created
                              the
                              > > > > heavens
                              > > > > > and the earth and I reject those who associate partners
                              with
                              > > Allah
                              > > > > > (in worship).
                              > > > > >
                              > > > > > Actually, in the Qur'an God calls people to continuously
                              look
                              > > at
                              > > > > the
                              > > > > > Universe, as this will
                              > > > > > affirm the divine truth of His existence, His greatness
                              and
                              > > that
                              > > > > He
                              > > > > > alone should be worshipped. God alone deserves our worship
                              > > because
                              > > > > > only He can answer our prayers. God says in the Qur'an:
                              > > > > >
                              > > > > > Quarn chp 40: verses 60.
                              > > > > > "And your Lord says: Call on Me and I will answer your
                              > > prayer."
                              > > > > >
                              > > > > > Hence, if a human being prays to an idol and his prayers
                              are
                              > > > > > answered, it is not the idol which actually answered his
                              > > prayers
                              > > > > but
                              > > > > > God. Similarly, prayers to Jesus Christ, Buddha, Krishna,
                              > > Saint
                              > > > > > Christopher, Saint Jude or to Prophet Muhammad, are not
                              > > answered by
                              > > > > > them, but are answered by God. Consequently, prayer is an
                              act
                              > > of
                              > > > > > worship which should be directed to God alone.
                              > > > > >
                              > > > > > Indeed, prophets who are worshipped besides Him did not
                              tell
                              > > > > people
                              > > > > > to worship them. Instead, the prophets warned their people
                              > > against
                              > > > > > doing just that. For example, Islam teaches that Prophet
                              Jesus
                              > > > > > (mercy and peace of God be upon him) was a human being who
                              was
                              > > > > > created by God in a miraculous way.
                              > > > > >
                              > > > > > He was born of a mother, Mary, without a father and he
                              > > worshipped
                              > > > > > God. He was not God, nor was he the son of God. He was
                              neither
                              > > one
                              > > > > > of three manifestations of God as Christians say, nor was
                              a
                              > > son
                              > > > > born
                              > > > > > out of wedlock as the Jews say.
                              > > > > >
                              > > > > > He told his people (the tribes of Israel) to worship God
                              > > alone. He
                              > > > > > did not tell people to worship either himself or his
                              mother.
                              > > > > > Furthermore, Prophet Jesus (mercy and peace of God be upon
                              > > him)
                              > > > > did
                              > > > > > not worship himself when he worshipped, rather he
                              worshipped
                              > > God.
                              > > > > >
                              > > > > > However, those who claim to be the followers of Jesus
                              Christ
                              > > today
                              > > > > > worship Jesus himself, claiming that he is God, and others
                              > > also
                              > > > > > worship his mother calling her `the mother of God.'! God
                              says
                              > > in
                              > >
                              > === message truncated ===
                              >
                              >
                              > =====
                              > ------------------------------------------------------------
                              >
                              > "Have you ever stood and stared at it? Marveled at its beauty?;
                              its genius. Billions of people, just living out their lives --
                              oblivious."
                              >
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                            • helen steen
                              Dear Honey, On the contrary, I have lived in a number of countries during my life-time and all of them, as it happens, predominately Christian societies..Thus,
                              Message 14 of 24 , Feb 26, 2004
                              • 0 Attachment
                                Dear Honey,
                                On the contrary, I have lived in a number of countries during my life-time and all of them, as it happens, predominately Christian societies..Thus, I have had been exposed to the Christian faith my whole life and as a small child, in a Christian ( Methodist) school, I'd say pretty much indoctrinated...so I know exactly what you are talking about!
                                Helen

                                honeybaby2012 <honeybaby2012@...> wrote:
                                Helen,
                                Same as AW, you have no clue what I am talking about.
                                May God guide you to the truth.

                                --- In theexistentialsociety@yahoogroups.com, helen steen
                                <hjsgermany2000@y...> wrote:
                                > And mine, developed from the ectoderm during an extremely complex
                                process, still as yet not fully understood, during embryological
                                development. Also approximately the same number of years ago as
                                AW's, coincidently.
                                > My soul, if I have one? Well I have no idea where it might go when
                                I die.
                                > Helen
                                >
                                > "A. W." <altool4@y...> wrote:
                                >
                                > My brain, an extraterrestrial being in area 51.
                                > My soul, being ethereal, i stay in earth and become a ghost and
                                have fun scaring people. Then when
                                > i get bored i will go to heaven and smoke an ethereal marijuana
                                joint with god.
                                >
                                > --- honeybaby2012 <honeybaby2012@y...> wrote:
                                > > AW,
                                > > Tell me, who created your brain?.
                                > > Where does your soul go when you die?.
                                > > My best wishes?
                                > >
                                > > --- In theexistentialsociety@yahoogroups.com, "A. W."
                                <altool4@y...>
                                > > wrote:
                                > > >
                                > > > Oh no, we have a 1 tune trompet player.
                                > > > Please do not be closed minded. Do not talk about concepts
                                like
                                > > creation, supreme being or "reason
                                > > > for existence" like if you have already find their meaning. I
                                > > understand you need security and
                                > > > some kind of backup for you to hold on unto life, but let me
                                tell
                                > > you, do not be sattisfied, never
                                > > > be sure, because for what i am conscious of, maybe is all we
                                got.
                                > > Our concept of the universe
                                > > > keeps changing throught human evolution and knowledge is
                                relative,
                                > > you need to understand
                                > > > everything changes, and that includes meaning and concepts.
                                > > Hopefully, people will understand
                                > > > religion and government are just forms of manipulation and
                                control
                                > > of the human, in his
                                > > > metaphisycal mind and in the way he exists in society.
                                > > > For you to evolve, you need to kill god NOW, before is too
                                late!.
                                > > Kill the god image of all of
                                > > > this religions and find your way to understand existence and
                                > > program your reality into your brain.
                                > > > Understand your brain, understand the sistematic society,
                                > > understand power and control, reality is
                                > > > flexible into eternity and there is an infinite of paths you
                                can
                                > > choose from, thats what makes
                                > > > this moment eternal, and thats whats make everything eternal,
                                the
                                > > same way you and your brain can
                                > > > reach eternity in reality.
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > > > --- honeybaby2012 <honeybaby2012@y...> wrote:
                                > > > > Helen,
                                > > > > This is not dogma, but a clear message from your creator &
                                my
                                > > > > creator, the Supreme Being telling us the reason for our
                                > > existence,
                                > > > > and what we are supposed to do during our brief stay on the
                                > > planet
                                > > > > Earth.
                                > > > >
                                > > > > With my best wishes.
                                > > > > --- In theexistentialsociety@yahoogroups.com, helen steen
                                > > > > <hjsgermany2000@y...> wrote:
                                > > > > > Ok Honey,
                                > > > > > Why this site?
                                > > > > > What relevance has all this dogma got to Existentialism?
                                > > > > > I don't get it.
                                > > > > > Helen
                                > > > > >
                                > > > > > honeybaby2012 <honeybaby2012@y...> wrote:
                                > > > > > II. THE BASIC MESSAGE OF ISLAM
                                > > > > >
                                > > > > > The basic message of Islam is the same message of all the
                                > > previous
                                > > > > > prophets: worship God alone and avoid worshipping anything
                                > > besides
                                > > > > > Him, whether it is a person, place or thing, directly or
                                > > > > indirectly.
                                > > > > > This basic principle of Monotheism is contained in the
                                opening
                                > > > > > chapter of the Quran, known as Soorat Al-Faatihah, verse
                                > > 4: "You
                                > > > > > alone we worship and from you alone we do seek help."
                                > > > > >
                                > > > > > In chp 4: verse 37, God also said:
                                > > > > > Worship Allah and do not associate partners with Him.
                                > > > > >
                                > > > > > Muhammad, the last Prophet (mercy and peace of God be upon
                                > > him) is
                                > > > > > reported to have said: "Anyone who says: There is no god
                                > > worthy of
                                > > > > > worship but Allah, and dies holding that belief will be
                                > > granted
                                > > > > > paradise.
                                > > > > >
                                > > > > >
                                > > > > > II. PROOFS FOR GOD'S RIGHT OF WORSHIP
                                > > > > >
                                > > > > > Only God should be worshipped because He is the Creator
                                and
                                > > > > > sustainer of all that exists. This Great Universe and
                                > > everything
                                > > > > > that is in it cannot be the product of chance, and could
                                not
                                > > have
                                > > > > > created itself. Signs testifying that God is the only
                                Creator
                                > > can
                                > > > > be
                                > > > > > seen throughout the earth and in the very soul of each
                                person.
                                > > God
                                > > > > > said in the Qur'an:
                                > > > > >
                                > > > > > Quran chp 14: verses 32-34
                                > > > > > It is Allah who Ceated the Sky and the Earth, and sent
                                down
                                > > from
                                > > > > the
                                > > > > > sky water by which He brought forth fruits for your
                                > > sustenance. He
                                > > > > > subjected for you the Ships to sail upon the Sea at His
                                > > command,
                                > > > > and
                                > > > > > He subjected for you the Rivers. And He subjected for you
                                the
                                > > Sun
                                > > > > > and Moon in continuous cycles, and He subjected for you
                                the
                                > > Night
                                > > > > > and Day. And He gave you all you asked Him for.
                                > > > > >
                                > > > > > In the Qur'an, God mentions Prophet Abraham's search for
                                truth
                                > > as
                                > > > > an
                                > > > > > example of how those who follow God's signs will be
                                rightly
                                > > guided
                                > > > > > to the worship of Him alone; God said:
                                > > > > > Quarn chp 6: verses 75-79
                                > > > > > In this way we showed Abraham the kingdom of the heavens
                                and
                                > > the
                                > > > > > earth so that he would have faith with understanding and
                                > > > > certainty.
                                > > > > > When the night covered him with darkness, he saw a star
                                and
                                > > > > > said: `This is my Lord', but when it set, he said: `I
                                don't
                                > > like
                                > > > > > those that set.' When he saw the moon rising up, he said:
                                > > `This is
                                > > > > > my Lord', but when it set, he said: `Unless my Lord guides
                                me,
                                > > I
                                > > > > > will certainly be among the people who went astray.' When
                                he
                                > > saw
                                > > > > the
                                > > > > > sun rising up he said: `This is my Lord, this is the
                                greatest
                                > > of
                                > > > > > all.' But when it set, he said: `O my people! I am indeed
                                free
                                > > > > from
                                > > > > > what you join as partners with Allah.
                                > > > > > Verily, I have turned my face towards Allah who created
                                the
                                > > > > heavens
                                > > > > > and the earth and I reject those who associate partners
                                with
                                > > Allah
                                > > > > > (in worship).
                                > > > > >
                                > > > > > Actually, in the Qur'an God calls people to continuously
                                look
                                > > at
                                > > > > the
                                > > > > > Universe, as this will
                                > > > > > affirm the divine truth of His existence, His greatness
                                and
                                > > that
                                > > > > He
                                > > > > > alone should be worshipped. God alone deserves our worship
                                > > because
                                > > > > > only He can answer our prayers. God says in the Qur'an:
                                > > > > >
                                > > > > > Quarn chp 40: verses 60.
                                > > > > > "And your Lord says: Call on Me and I will answer your
                                > > prayer."
                                > > > > >
                                > > > > > Hence, if a human being prays to an idol and his prayers
                                are
                                > > > > > answered, it is not the idol which actually answered his
                                > > prayers
                                > > > > but
                                > > > > > God. Similarly, prayers to Jesus Christ, Buddha, Krishna,
                                > > Saint
                                > > > > > Christopher, Saint Jude or to Prophet Muhammad, are not
                                > > answered by
                                > > > > > them, but are answered by God. Consequently, prayer is an
                                act
                                > > of
                                > > > > > worship which should be directed to God alone.
                                > > > > >
                                > > > > > Indeed, prophets who are worshipped besides Him did not
                                tell
                                > > > > people
                                > > > > > to worship them. Instead, the prophets warned their people
                                > > against
                                > > > > > doing just that. For example, Islam teaches that Prophet
                                Jesus
                                > > > > > (mercy and peace of God be upon him) was a human being who
                                was
                                > > > > > created by God in a miraculous way.
                                > > > > >
                                > > > > > He was born of a mother, Mary, without a father and he
                                > > worshipped
                                > > > > > God. He was not God, nor was he the son of God. He was
                                neither
                                > > one
                                > > > > > of three manifestations of God as Christians say, nor was
                                a
                                > > son
                                > > > > born
                                > > > > > out of wedlock as the Jews say.
                                > > > > >
                                > > > > > He told his people (the tribes of Israel) to worship God
                                > > alone. He
                                > > > > > did not tell people to worship either himself or his
                                mother.
                                > > > > > Furthermore, Prophet Jesus (mercy and peace of God be upon
                                > > him)
                                > > > > did
                                > > > > > not worship himself when he worshipped, rather he
                                worshipped
                                > > God.
                                > > > > >
                                > > > > > However, those who claim to be the followers of Jesus
                                Christ
                                > > today
                                > > > > > worship Jesus himself, claiming that he is God, and others
                                > > also
                                > > > > > worship his mother calling her `the mother of God.'! God
                                says
                                > > in
                                > >
                                > === message truncated ===
                                >
                                >
                                > =====
                                > ------------------------------------------------------------
                                >
                                > "Have you ever stood and stared at it? Marveled at its beauty?;
                                its genius. Billions of people, just living out their lives --
                                oblivious."
                                >
                                > __________________________________
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                              • Monte Morris
                                Honey, these questions presuppose certain premises. Why do you insist that everyone shares your premises? I don t believe in a soul, and why does my brain have
                                Message 15 of 24 , Feb 26, 2004
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  Honey,
                                  these questions presuppose certain premises. Why do
                                  you insist that everyone shares your premises? I don't
                                  believe in a soul, and why does my brain have to be
                                  created by someone?

                                  --Monte
                                  --- honeybaby2012 <honeybaby2012@...> wrote:
                                  > AW,
                                  > Tell me, who created your brain?.
                                  > Where does your soul go when you die?.
                                  > My best wishes?
                                  >
                                  > --- In theexistentialsociety@yahoogroups.com, "A.
                                  > W." <altool4@y...>
                                  > wrote:
                                  > >
                                  > > Oh no, we have a 1 tune trompet player.
                                  > > Please do not be closed minded. Do not talk about
                                  > concepts like
                                  > creation, supreme being or "reason
                                  > > for existence" like if you have already find their
                                  > meaning. I
                                  > understand you need security and
                                  > > some kind of backup for you to hold on unto life,
                                  > but let me tell
                                  > you, do not be sattisfied, never
                                  > > be sure, because for what i am conscious of, maybe
                                  > is all we got.
                                  > Our concept of the universe
                                  > > keeps changing throught human evolution and
                                  > knowledge is relative,
                                  > you need to understand
                                  > > everything changes, and that includes meaning and
                                  > concepts.
                                  > Hopefully, people will understand
                                  > > religion and government are just forms of
                                  > manipulation and control
                                  > of the human, in his
                                  > > metaphisycal mind and in the way he exists in
                                  > society.
                                  > > For you to evolve, you need to kill god NOW,
                                  > before is too late!.
                                  > Kill the god image of all of
                                  > > this religions and find your way to understand
                                  > existence and
                                  > program your reality into your brain.
                                  > > Understand your brain, understand the sistematic
                                  > society,
                                  > understand power and control, reality is
                                  > > flexible into eternity and there is an infinite of
                                  > paths you can
                                  > choose from, thats what makes
                                  > > this moment eternal, and thats whats make
                                  > everything eternal, the
                                  > same way you and your brain can
                                  > > reach eternity in reality.
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > > --- honeybaby2012 <honeybaby2012@y...> wrote:
                                  > > > Helen,
                                  > > > This is not dogma, but a clear message from your
                                  > creator & my
                                  > > > creator, the Supreme Being telling us the reason
                                  > for our
                                  > existence,
                                  > > > and what we are supposed to do during our brief
                                  > stay on the
                                  > planet
                                  > > > Earth.
                                  > > >
                                  > > > With my best wishes.
                                  > > > --- In theexistentialsociety@yahoogroups.com,
                                  > helen steen
                                  > > > <hjsgermany2000@y...> wrote:
                                  > > > > Ok Honey,
                                  > > > > Why this site?
                                  > > > > What relevance has all this dogma got to
                                  > Existentialism?
                                  > > > > I don't get it.
                                  > > > > Helen
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > honeybaby2012 <honeybaby2012@y...> wrote:
                                  > > > > II. THE BASIC MESSAGE OF ISLAM
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > The basic message of Islam is the same message
                                  > of all the
                                  > previous
                                  > > > > prophets: worship God alone and avoid
                                  > worshipping anything
                                  > besides
                                  > > > > Him, whether it is a person, place or thing,
                                  > directly or
                                  > > > indirectly.
                                  > > > > This basic principle of Monotheism is
                                  > contained in the opening
                                  > > > > chapter of the Quran, known as Soorat
                                  > Al-Faatihah, verse
                                  > 4: "You
                                  > > > > alone we worship and from you alone we do seek
                                  > help."
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > In chp 4: verse 37, God also said:
                                  > > > > Worship Allah and do not associate partners
                                  > with Him.
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > Muhammad, the last Prophet (mercy and peace of
                                  > God be upon
                                  > him) is
                                  > > > > reported to have said: "Anyone who says: There
                                  > is no god
                                  > worthy of
                                  > > > > worship but Allah, and dies holding that
                                  > belief will be
                                  > granted
                                  > > > > paradise.
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > II. PROOFS FOR GOD'S RIGHT OF WORSHIP
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > Only God should be worshipped because He is
                                  > the Creator and
                                  > > > > sustainer of all that exists. This Great
                                  > Universe and
                                  > everything
                                  > > > > that is in it cannot be the product of chance,
                                  > and could not
                                  > have
                                  > > > > created itself. Signs testifying that God is
                                  > the only Creator
                                  > can
                                  > > > be
                                  > > > > seen throughout the earth and in the very soul
                                  > of each person.
                                  > God
                                  > > > > said in the Qur'an:
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > Quran chp 14: verses 32-34
                                  > > > > It is Allah who Ceated the Sky and the Earth,
                                  > and sent down
                                  > from
                                  > > > the
                                  > > > > sky water by which He brought forth fruits for
                                  > your
                                  > sustenance. He
                                  > > > > subjected for you the Ships to sail upon the
                                  > Sea at His
                                  > command,
                                  > > > and
                                  > > > > He subjected for you the Rivers. And He
                                  > subjected for you the
                                  > Sun
                                  > > > > and Moon in continuous cycles, and He
                                  > subjected for you the
                                  > Night
                                  > > > > and Day. And He gave you all you asked Him
                                  > for.
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > In the Qur'an, God mentions Prophet Abraham's
                                  > search for truth
                                  > as
                                  > > > an
                                  > > > > example of how those who follow God's signs
                                  > will be rightly
                                  > guided
                                  > > > > to the worship of Him alone; God said:
                                  > > > > Quarn chp 6: verses 75-79
                                  > > > > In this way we showed Abraham the kingdom of
                                  > the heavens and
                                  > the
                                  > > > > earth so that he would have faith with
                                  > understanding and
                                  > > > certainty.
                                  > > > > When the night covered him with darkness, he
                                  > saw a star and
                                  > > > > said: `This is my Lord', but when it set, he
                                  > said: `I don't
                                  > like
                                  > > > > those that set.' When he saw the moon rising
                                  > up, he said:
                                  > `This is
                                  > > > > my Lord', but when it set, he said: `Unless my
                                  > Lord guides me,
                                  > I
                                  > > > > will certainly be among the people who went
                                  > astray.' When he
                                  > saw
                                  > > > the
                                  > > > > sun rising up he said: `This is my Lord, this
                                  > is the greatest
                                  > of
                                  > > > > all.' But when it set, he said: `O my people!
                                  > I am indeed free
                                  > > > from
                                  > > > > what you join as partners with Allah.
                                  > > > > Verily, I have turned my face towards Allah
                                  > who created the
                                  > > > heavens
                                  > > > > and the earth and I reject those who associate
                                  > partners with
                                  > Allah
                                  > > > > (in worship).
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > Actually, in the Qur'an God calls people to
                                  > continuously look
                                  > at
                                  > > > the
                                  > > > > Universe, as this will
                                  > > > > affirm the divine truth of His existence, His
                                  > greatness and
                                  > that
                                  > > > He
                                  > > > > alone should be worshipped. God alone deserves
                                  > our worship
                                  > because
                                  > > > > only He can answer our prayers. God says in
                                  > the Qur'an:
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > Quarn chp 40: verses 60.
                                  > > > > "And your Lord says: Call on Me and I will
                                  > answer your
                                  > prayer."
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > Hence, if a human being prays to an idol and
                                  > his prayers are
                                  > > > > answered, it is not the idol which actually
                                  > answered his
                                  > prayers
                                  > > > but
                                  > > > > God. Similarly, prayers to Jesus Christ,
                                  > Buddha, Krishna,
                                  > Saint
                                  > > > > Christopher, Saint Jude or to Prophet
                                  > Muhammad, are not
                                  > answered by
                                  > > > > them, but are answered by God. Consequently,
                                  > prayer is an act
                                  > of
                                  > > > > worship which should be directed to God alone.
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > Indeed, prophets who are worshipped besides
                                  > Him did not tell
                                  > > > people
                                  > > > > to worship them. Instead, the prophets warned
                                  > their people
                                  > against
                                  > > > > doing just that. For example, Islam teaches
                                  > that Prophet Jesus
                                  > > > > (mercy and peace of God be upon him) was a
                                  > human being who was
                                  > > > > created by God in a miraculous way.
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > He was born of a mother, Mary, without a
                                  > father and he
                                  > worshipped
                                  > > > > God. He was not God, nor was he the son of
                                  > God. He was neither
                                  > one
                                  > > > > of three manifestations of God as Christians
                                  > say, nor was a
                                  > son
                                  > > > born
                                  > > > > out of wedlock as the Jews say.
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > He told his people (the tribes of Israel) to
                                  > worship God
                                  > alone. He
                                  > > > > did not tell people to worship either himself
                                  > or his mother.
                                  > > > > Furthermore, Prophet Jesus (mercy and peace of
                                  > God be upon
                                  > him)
                                  > > > did
                                  > > > > not worship himself when he worshipped, rather
                                  > he worshipped
                                  > God.
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > However, those who claim to be the followers
                                  > of Jesus Christ
                                  > today
                                  > > > > worship Jesus himself, claiming that he is
                                  > God, and others
                                  > also
                                  > > > > worship his mother calling her `the mother of
                                  > God.'! God says
                                  > in
                                  > > > the
                                  > > > > Qur'an that He will ask Prophet Jesus (mercy
                                  > and peace of God
                                  > be
                                  > > > > upon him) on the Day of Judgment:
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > Quarn chp 5: verses 116-117.
                                  > > > > O Jesus, son of Mary! Did you tell people:
                                  > Take me and my
                                  > mother
                                  > > > as
                                  > > > > gods besides Allah? Then he will say: Glory to
                                  > you, I could
                                  > never
                                  > > > > say what I had no right to say. If I had said
                                  > it, You would
                                  > have
                                  > > > > known it, You know what is within myself, but
                                  > I do not know
                                  > what
                                  > > > is
                                  > > > > within Yourself. Verily, You alone are the
                                  > Knower of the
                                  > unseen. I
                                  > > > > did not say to them except what You commanded
                                  > me; to worship
                                  > > > Allah,
                                  > > > > my Lord and your Lord, and I was a witness
                                  > over them as long
                                  > as I
                                  > > > > was among them, but when You raised me up, You
                                  > were the
                                  > observer
                                  > > > > over them, and You are the witness over all
                                  > things.
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > God emphasizes in the Qur'an that Prophet
                                  > Jesus (mercy and
                                  > peace
                                  > > > of
                                  > > > > God be upon him) was neither killed nor
                                  > crucified, but God
                                  > raised
                                  > > > > him up into the heavens in body and spirit and
                                  > he will be
                                  > returned
                                  > > > > to the earth before the end of the world.
                                  > Prophet Muhammad
                                  > (mercy
                                  > > > > and peace of God be upon him) stated that
                                  > Prohet Jesus would
                                  > rule
                                  > > > > the earth according to the Islamic law, then
                                  > he will die on
                                  > earth
                                  > > > > like other human beings and will be buried and
                                  > resurrected
                                  > like
                                  > > > them
                                  > > > > on the Day of Judgment. Hence, Prophet Jesus
                                  > who was given
                                  > life,
                                  > > > was
                                  > > > > born from a woman's womb and circumcised, ate,
                                  > slept, went to
                                  > the
                                  > > > > toilet, grew up, prayed, and will die, should
                                  > never be taken
                                  > as
                                  > > > God
                                  > > > > as all these characteristics are not the
                                  > attributes of God,
                                  > but of
                                  > > > > His creatures.
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > The New Testament states that Jesus Christ
                                  > taught his
                                  > followers to
                                  > > > > pray to God saying:
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > (Luke 11:2 / Matthew 6:9-10)
                                  > > > > Our Father who art in heaven, hallowed be your
                                  > name, your
                                  > kingdom
                                  > > > > come, your will be done on earth as it is in
                                  > heaven."
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > Also, he taught that only those who submit to
                                  > God would
                                  > inherit
                                  > > > > paradise:
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > (Matthew 7:21)
                                  > > > > None of those who call me `Lord' will enter
                                  > the Kingdom of
                                  > God,
                                  > > > > except one who does the will of my Father in
                                  > heaven.
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > Prophet Jesus also pointed out that he himself
                                  > submitted to
                                  > the
                                  > > > will
                                  > > > > of God:
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > (John 5:23)
                                  > > > > I cannot do anything of myself. I judge as I
                                  > hear and my
                                  > judgment
                                  > > > > is honest because I am not seeking my own will
                                  > but the will of
                                  > Him
                                  > > > > who sent me.
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > In fact, there are many reports in the Gospels
                                  > that show that
                                  > > > > Prophet Jesus made it clear to his followers
                                  > that he was not
                                  > God.
                                  > > > > For example, when speaking about the final
                                  > hour, he said:
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > (Mark 13:32)
                                  > > > > No one knows about that day or hour, not even
                                  > the angels in
                                  > > > heaven,
                                  > > > > not the son, but only the Father.
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > Buddha, was a reformer who introduced a number
                                  > of humanistic
                                  > > > > principles in the Hindu religion practiced in
                                  > India. He did
                                  > not
                                  > > > > claim to be God, nor did he suggest to his
                                  > followers that he
                                  > be
                                  > > > > worshipped. Yet, today most Buddhists have
                                  > made him their God
                                  > and
                                  > > > > they prostrate themselves before idols
                                  > representing his
                                  > likeness.
                                  > > > > In brief, from the perspective of the object
                                  > worshipped, all
                                  > > > > religions today [except Islam] invite people
                                  > to the worship of
                                  > > > > creation!
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > God's attributes point to the fact that God
                                  > alone deserves
                                  > > > worship.
                                  > > > > He is One, without relatives; He has neither
                                  > father, son,
                                  > mother
                                  > > > nor
                                  > > > > wife. He is the Eternal Absolute. He neither
                                  > gives birth, nor
                                  > is
                                  > > > He
                                  > > >
                                  > > === message truncated ===
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > > =====
                                  > >
                                  >
                                  ------------------------------------------------------------
                                  > >
                                  > > "Have you ever stood and stared at it? Marveled at
                                  > its beauty?;
                                  > its genius. Billions of people, just living out
                                  > their lives --
                                  > oblivious."
                                  > >
                                  > > __________________________________
                                  > > Do you Yahoo!?
                                  > > Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard - Read only the mail you
                                  > want.
                                  > > http://antispam.yahoo.com/tools
                                  >
                                  >


                                  =====
                                  --Monte Morris
                                  Philosopher wannabe
                                  Japan
                                  "Needs to find a good quote"


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                                • Monte Morris
                                  Honey, I ve been considering whether or not to dignify this with a reply. It seems to me that I ve already given ample evidence against most of what you claim
                                  Message 16 of 24 , Feb 26, 2004
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                                    Honey,
                                    I've been considering whether or not to dignify this
                                    with a reply. It seems to me that I've already given
                                    ample evidence against most of what you claim in here.
                                    Or, perhaps what you cut and pasted from a website
                                    without taking the time to read it. For example, I've
                                    already countered that Christians do not worship Mary
                                    and Buddhists do not worship a Buddha as a God. Why
                                    then, do you repeat them here? To be quite honest, I
                                    shouldn't even have to point these things out to you
                                    as they are such fundamental points as to be beyond
                                    debate. In fact, it would be impossible to find
                                    sources to back those claims up because everyone who
                                    knows anything about those religions already know
                                    those facts. They aren't even things worthy of being
                                    debated. Its like debating the color of the sky. Or if
                                    there even is a sky. Everyone already knows that it's
                                    there.
                                    You have also failed to respond to my
                                    counter-arguements to your idea that Buddhists statues
                                    and the crucifix are graven images. And you have also
                                    failed to adequately explain why Islam is not guilty
                                    of the same things that you condemn other religions
                                    for,albiet ignorantly, I might add.
                                    Tell me why this deserves to be continued.
                                    --Monte




                                    > > > > > honeybaby2012 <honeybaby2012@y...> wrote:
                                    > > > > > II. THE BASIC MESSAGE OF ISLAM
                                    > > > > >
                                    > > > > > The basic message of Islam is the same
                                    > message of all the
                                    > > previous
                                    > > > > > prophets: worship God alone and avoid
                                    > worshipping anything
                                    > > besides
                                    > > > > > Him, whether it is a person, place or thing,
                                    > directly or
                                    > > > > indirectly.
                                    > > > > > This basic principle of Monotheism is
                                    > contained in the opening
                                    > > > > > chapter of the Quran, known as Soorat
                                    > Al-Faatihah, verse
                                    > > 4: "You
                                    > > > > > alone we worship and from you alone we do
                                    > seek help."
                                    > > > > >
                                    > > > > > In chp 4: verse 37, God also said:
                                    > > > > > Worship Allah and do not associate partners
                                    > with Him.
                                    > > > > >
                                    > > > > > Muhammad, the last Prophet (mercy and peace
                                    > of God be upon
                                    > > him) is
                                    > > > > > reported to have said: "Anyone who says:
                                    > There is no god
                                    > > worthy of
                                    > > > > > worship but Allah, and dies holding that
                                    > belief will be
                                    > > granted
                                    > > > > > paradise.
                                    > > > > >
                                    > > > > >
                                    > > > > > II. PROOFS FOR GOD'S RIGHT OF WORSHIP
                                    > > > > >
                                    > > > > > Only God should be worshipped because He is
                                    > the Creator and
                                    > > > > > sustainer of all that exists. This Great
                                    > Universe and
                                    > > everything
                                    > > > > > that is in it cannot be the product of
                                    > chance, and could not
                                    > > have
                                    > > > > > created itself. Signs testifying that God is
                                    > the only Creator
                                    > > can
                                    > > > > be
                                    > > > > > seen throughout the earth and in the very
                                    > soul of each person.
                                    > > God
                                    > > > > > said in the Qur'an:
                                    > > > > >
                                    > > > > > Quran chp 14: verses 32-34
                                    > > > > > It is Allah who Ceated the Sky and the
                                    > Earth, and sent down
                                    > > from
                                    > > > > the
                                    > > > > > sky water by which He brought forth fruits
                                    > for your
                                    > > sustenance. He
                                    > > > > > subjected for you the Ships to sail upon the
                                    > Sea at His
                                    > > command,
                                    > > > > and
                                    > > > > > He subjected for you the Rivers. And He
                                    > subjected for you the
                                    > > Sun
                                    > > > > > and Moon in continuous cycles, and He
                                    > subjected for you the
                                    > > Night
                                    > > > > > and Day. And He gave you all you asked Him
                                    > for.
                                    > > > > >
                                    > > > > > In the Qur'an, God mentions Prophet
                                    > Abraham's search for truth
                                    > > as
                                    > > > > an
                                    > > > > > example of how those who follow God's signs
                                    > will be rightly
                                    > > guided
                                    > > > > > to the worship of Him alone; God said:
                                    > > > > > Quarn chp 6: verses 75-79
                                    > > > > > In this way we showed Abraham the kingdom of
                                    > the heavens and
                                    > > the
                                    > > > > > earth so that he would have faith with
                                    > understanding and
                                    > > > > certainty.
                                    > > > > > When the night covered him with darkness, he
                                    > saw a star and
                                    > > > > > said: `This is my Lord', but when it set, he
                                    > said: `I don't
                                    > > like
                                    > > > > > those that set.' When he saw the moon rising
                                    > up, he said:
                                    > > `This is
                                    > > > > > my Lord', but when it set, he said: `Unless
                                    > my Lord guides me,
                                    > > I
                                    > > > > > will certainly be among the people who went
                                    > astray.' When he
                                    > > saw
                                    > > > > the
                                    > > > > > sun rising up he said: `This is my Lord,
                                    > this is the greatest
                                    > > of
                                    > > > > > all.' But when it set, he said: `O my
                                    > people! I am indeed free
                                    > > > > from
                                    > > > > > what you join as partners with Allah.
                                    > > > > > Verily, I have turned my face towards Allah
                                    > who created the
                                    > > > > heavens
                                    > > > > > and the earth and I reject those who
                                    > associate partners with
                                    > > Allah
                                    > > > > > (in worship).
                                    > > > > >
                                    > > > > > Actually, in the Qur'an God calls people to
                                    > continuously look
                                    > > at
                                    > > > > the
                                    > > > > > Universe, as this will
                                    > > > > > affirm the divine truth of His existence,
                                    > His greatness and
                                    > > that
                                    > > > > He
                                    > > > > > alone should be worshipped. God alone
                                    > deserves our worship
                                    > > because
                                    > > > > > only He can answer our prayers. God says in
                                    > the Qur'an:
                                    > > > > >
                                    > > > > > Quarn chp 40: verses 60.
                                    > > > > > "And your Lord says: Call on Me and I will
                                    > answer your
                                    > > prayer."
                                    > > > > >
                                    > > > > > Hence, if a human being prays to an idol and
                                    > his prayers are
                                    > > > > > answered, it is not the idol which actually
                                    > answered his
                                    > > prayers
                                    > > > > but
                                    > > > > > God. Similarly, prayers to Jesus Christ,
                                    > Buddha, Krishna,
                                    > > Saint
                                    > > > > > Christopher, Saint Jude or to Prophet
                                    > Muhammad, are not
                                    > > answered by
                                    > > > > > them, but are answered by God. Consequently,
                                    > prayer is an act
                                    > > of
                                    > > > > > worship which should be directed to God
                                    > alone.
                                    > > > > >
                                    > > > > > Indeed, prophets who are worshipped besides
                                    > Him did not tell
                                    > > > > people
                                    > > > > > to worship them. Instead, the prophets
                                    > warned their people
                                    > > against
                                    > > > > > doing just that. For example, Islam teaches
                                    > that Prophet Jesus
                                    > > > > > (mercy and peace of God be upon him) was a
                                    > human being who was
                                    > > > > > created by God in a miraculous way.
                                    > > > > >
                                    > > > > > He was born of a mother, Mary, without a
                                    > father and he
                                    > > worshipped
                                    > > > > > God. He was not God, nor was he the son of
                                    > God. He was neither
                                    > > one
                                    > > > > > of three manifestations of God as Christians
                                    > say, nor was a
                                    > > son
                                    > > > > born
                                    > > > > > out of wedlock as the Jews say.
                                    > > > > >
                                    > > > > > He told his people (the tribes of Israel) to
                                    > worship God
                                    > > alone. He
                                    > > > > > did not tell people to worship either
                                    > himself or his mother.
                                    > > > > > Furthermore, Prophet Jesus (mercy and peace
                                    > of God be upon
                                    > > him)
                                    > > > > did
                                    > > > > > not worship himself when he worshipped,
                                    > rather he worshipped
                                    > > God.
                                    > > > > >
                                    > > > > > However, those who claim to be the followers
                                    > of Jesus Christ
                                    > > today
                                    > > > > > worship Jesus himself, claiming that he is
                                    > God, and others
                                    > > also
                                    > > > > > worship his mother calling her `the mother
                                    > of God.'! God says
                                    > > in
                                    > >
                                    > === message truncated ===
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > =====
                                    >
                                    ------------------------------------------------------------
                                    >
                                    > "Have you ever stood and stared at it? Marveled at
                                    > its beauty?; its genius. Billions of people, just
                                    > living out their lives -- oblivious."
                                    >
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                                    =====
                                    --Monte Morris
                                    Philosopher wannabe
                                    Japan
                                    "Needs to find a good quote"


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                                  • Shayne Seymour
                                    My primary reason for joining this group is to read other views on, and learn more about existentialism. I had no intentions of being able to contribute
                                    Message 17 of 24 , Feb 26, 2004
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                                      My primary reason for joining this group is to read
                                      other views on, and learn more about existentialism.
                                      I had no intentions of being able to contribute
                                      anything profound any time soon, and I don't assume
                                      that I am now.

                                      I understand the religious aspects of existentialism.

                                      I don't understand is how this sort of theological
                                      discussion relates. As an Individual (with a capital
                                      I), I believe what I believe and worship how I
                                      worship. I believe in every Individual's right and
                                      ability (maybe) to do the same. I don't feel the
                                      slightest urge to convince anyone else that my way of
                                      worshiping (or lack thereof) or thinking (or lack
                                      thereof) is any better or more correct than anyone
                                      else's. In my small mind, that concept of self
                                      without regard for how anyone else conducts his or her
                                      business is one of the fundamental elements of
                                      existentialism.

                                      Am I wrong about that?

                                      It is in no way my place to judge the discussions on
                                      this or any other list. Help me out here. Please
                                      explain to me how this attempt to qualify the
                                      credibility of any set of beliefs or worship practices
                                      relates to existentialism.

                                      Isn't a more existential question something along the
                                      lines of..... Don't we have Free Will, whether by
                                      divine influence or whatever means, to decide if and
                                      how to seek our own truths?

                                      Shayne

                                      --- honeybaby2012 <honeybaby2012@...> wrote:
                                      > Helen,
                                      > Same as AW, you have no clue what I am talking
                                      > about.
                                      > May God guide you to the truth.
                                      >
                                      > --- In theexistentialsociety@yahoogroups.com, helen
                                      > steen
                                      > <hjsgermany2000@y...> wrote:
                                      > > And mine, developed from the ectoderm during an
                                      > extremely complex
                                      > process, still as yet not fully understood, during
                                      > embryological
                                      > development. Also approximately the same number of
                                      > years ago as
                                      > AW's, coincidently.
                                      > > My soul, if I have one? Well I have no idea where
                                      > it might go when
                                      > I die.
                                      > > Helen
                                      > >
                                      > > "A. W." <altool4@y...> wrote:
                                      > >
                                      > > My brain, an extraterrestrial being in area 51.
                                      > > My soul, being ethereal, i stay in earth and
                                      > become a ghost and
                                      > have fun scaring people. Then when
                                      > > i get bored i will go to heaven and smoke an
                                      > ethereal marijuana
                                      > joint with god.
                                      > >
                                      > > --- honeybaby2012 <honeybaby2012@y...> wrote:
                                      > > > AW,
                                      > > > Tell me, who created your brain?.
                                      > > > Where does your soul go when you die?.
                                      > > > My best wishes?
                                      > > >
                                      > > > --- In theexistentialsociety@yahoogroups.com,
                                      > "A. W."
                                      > <altool4@y...>
                                      > > > wrote:
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > > Oh no, we have a 1 tune trompet player.
                                      > > > > Please do not be closed minded. Do not talk
                                      > about concepts
                                      > like
                                      > > > creation, supreme being or "reason
                                      > > > > for existence" like if you have already find
                                      > their meaning. I
                                      > > > understand you need security and
                                      > > > > some kind of backup for you to hold on unto
                                      > life, but let me
                                      > tell
                                      > > > you, do not be sattisfied, never
                                      > > > > be sure, because for what i am conscious of,
                                      > maybe is all we
                                      > got.
                                      > > > Our concept of the universe
                                      > > > > keeps changing throught human evolution and
                                      > knowledge is
                                      > relative,
                                      > > > you need to understand
                                      > > > > everything changes, and that includes meaning
                                      > and concepts.
                                      > > > Hopefully, people will understand
                                      > > > > religion and government are just forms of
                                      > manipulation and
                                      > control
                                      > > > of the human, in his
                                      > > > > metaphisycal mind and in the way he exists in
                                      > society.
                                      > > > > For you to evolve, you need to kill god NOW,
                                      > before is too
                                      > late!.
                                      > > > Kill the god image of all of
                                      > > > > this religions and find your way to understand
                                      > existence and
                                      > > > program your reality into your brain.
                                      > > > > Understand your brain, understand the
                                      > sistematic society,
                                      > > > understand power and control, reality is
                                      > > > > flexible into eternity and there is an
                                      > infinite of paths you
                                      > can
                                      > > > choose from, thats what makes
                                      > > > > this moment eternal, and thats whats make
                                      > everything eternal,
                                      > the
                                      > > > same way you and your brain can
                                      > > > > reach eternity in reality.
                                      > > > >

                                      =====
                                      Shayne
                                      ouray21@...
                                      ~~~~~~~~~~~~~
                                      "I drink now and then at parties to avoid being caught sober."
                                      -Groucho Marx
                                      http://www.geocities.com/TelevisionCity/Studio/5280/blew.mp3

                                      __________________________________
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                                    • honeybaby2012
                                      Monte, If you do not call the soul that leaves the body when it dies soul , what do you call it then?. How does life is separated from the body, when it
                                      Message 18 of 24 , Feb 26, 2004
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                                        Monte,
                                        If you do not call the soul that leaves the body when it dies "soul",
                                        what do you call it then?. How does life is separated from the body,
                                        when it becomes lifeless?

                                        You will find a lot of v. interesting things about the soul here:
                                        www.barnabas.net

                                        If no one created your brain, how did it come about?, every machine
                                        or equipment has operating manual, the operating manual for human
                                        beings is the quran.
                                        With my best wishes.

                                        --- In theexistentialsociety@yahoogroups.com, Monte Morris
                                        <monteamorris@y...> wrote:
                                        > Honey,
                                        > these questions presuppose certain premises. Why do
                                        > you insist that everyone shares your premises? I don't
                                        > believe in a soul, and why does my brain have to be
                                        > created by someone?
                                        >
                                        > --Monte
                                        > --- honeybaby2012 <honeybaby2012@y...> wrote:
                                        > > AW,
                                        > > Tell me, who created your brain?.
                                        > > Where does your soul go when you die?.
                                        > > My best wishes?
                                        > >
                                        > > --- In theexistentialsociety@yahoogroups.com, "A.
                                        > > W." <altool4@y...>
                                        > > wrote:
                                        > > >
                                        > > > Oh no, we have a 1 tune trompet player.
                                        > > > Please do not be closed minded. Do not talk about
                                        > > concepts like
                                        > > creation, supreme being or "reason
                                        > > > for existence" like if you have already find their
                                        > > meaning. I
                                        > > understand you need security and
                                        > > > some kind of backup for you to hold on unto life,
                                        > > but let me tell
                                        > > you, do not be sattisfied, never
                                        > > > be sure, because for what i am conscious of, maybe
                                        > > is all we got.
                                        > > Our concept of the universe
                                        > > > keeps changing throught human evolution and
                                        > > knowledge is relative,
                                        > > you need to understand
                                        > > > everything changes, and that includes meaning and
                                        > > concepts.
                                        > > Hopefully, people will understand
                                        > > > religion and government are just forms of
                                        > > manipulation and control
                                        > > of the human, in his
                                        > > > metaphisycal mind and in the way he exists in
                                        > > society.
                                        > > > For you to evolve, you need to kill god NOW,
                                        > > before is too late!.
                                        > > Kill the god image of all of
                                        > > > this religions and find your way to understand
                                        > > existence and
                                        > > program your reality into your brain.
                                        > > > Understand your brain, understand the sistematic
                                        > > society,
                                        > > understand power and control, reality is
                                        > > > flexible into eternity and there is an infinite of
                                        > > paths you can
                                        > > choose from, thats what makes
                                        > > > this moment eternal, and thats whats make
                                        > > everything eternal, the
                                        > > same way you and your brain can
                                        > > > reach eternity in reality.
                                        > > >
                                        > > >
                                        > > > --- honeybaby2012 <honeybaby2012@y...> wrote:
                                        > > > > Helen,
                                        > > > > This is not dogma, but a clear message from your
                                        > > creator & my
                                        > > > > creator, the Supreme Being telling us the reason
                                        > > for our
                                        > > existence,
                                        > > > > and what we are supposed to do during our brief
                                        > > stay on the
                                        > > planet
                                        > > > > Earth.
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > > With my best wishes.
                                        > > > > --- In theexistentialsociety@yahoogroups.com,
                                        > > helen steen
                                        > > > > <hjsgermany2000@y...> wrote:
                                        > > > > > Ok Honey,
                                        > > > > > Why this site?
                                        > > > > > What relevance has all this dogma got to
                                        > > Existentialism?
                                        > > > > > I don't get it.
                                        > > > > > Helen
                                        > > > > >
                                        > > > > > honeybaby2012 <honeybaby2012@y...> wrote:
                                        > > > > > II. THE BASIC MESSAGE OF ISLAM
                                        > > > > >
                                        > > > > > The basic message of Islam is the same message
                                        > > of all the
                                        > > previous
                                        > > > > > prophets: worship God alone and avoid
                                        > > worshipping anything
                                        > > besides
                                        > > > > > Him, whether it is a person, place or thing,
                                        > > directly or
                                        > > > > indirectly.
                                        > > > > > This basic principle of Monotheism is
                                        > > contained in the opening
                                        > > > > > chapter of the Quran, known as Soorat
                                        > > Al-Faatihah, verse
                                        > > 4: "You
                                        > > > > > alone we worship and from you alone we do seek
                                        > > help."
                                        > > > > >
                                        > > > > > In chp 4: verse 37, God also said:
                                        > > > > > Worship Allah and do not associate partners
                                        > > with Him.
                                        > > > > >
                                        > > > > > Muhammad, the last Prophet (mercy and peace of
                                        > > God be upon
                                        > > him) is
                                        > > > > > reported to have said: "Anyone who says: There
                                        > > is no god
                                        > > worthy of
                                        > > > > > worship but Allah, and dies holding that
                                        > > belief will be
                                        > > granted
                                        > > > > > paradise.
                                        > > > > >
                                        > > > > >
                                        > > > > > II. PROOFS FOR GOD'S RIGHT OF WORSHIP
                                        > > > > >
                                        > > > > > Only God should be worshipped because He is
                                        > > the Creator and
                                        > > > > > sustainer of all that exists. This Great
                                        > > Universe and
                                        > > everything
                                        > > > > > that is in it cannot be the product of chance,
                                        > > and could not
                                        > > have
                                        > > > > > created itself. Signs testifying that God is
                                        > > the only Creator
                                        > > can
                                        > > > > be
                                        > > > > > seen throughout the earth and in the very soul
                                        > > of each person.
                                        > > God
                                        > > > > > said in the Qur'an:
                                        > > > > >
                                        > > > > > Quran chp 14: verses 32-34
                                        > > > > > It is Allah who Ceated the Sky and the Earth,
                                        > > and sent down
                                        > > from
                                        > > > > the
                                        > > > > > sky water by which He brought forth fruits for
                                        > > your
                                        > > sustenance. He
                                        > > > > > subjected for you the Ships to sail upon the
                                        > > Sea at His
                                        > > command,
                                        > > > > and
                                        > > > > > He subjected for you the Rivers. And He
                                        > > subjected for you the
                                        > > Sun
                                        > > > > > and Moon in continuous cycles, and He
                                        > > subjected for you the
                                        > > Night
                                        > > > > > and Day. And He gave you all you asked Him
                                        > > for.
                                        > > > > >
                                        > > > > > In the Qur'an, God mentions Prophet Abraham's
                                        > > search for truth
                                        > > as
                                        > > > > an
                                        > > > > > example of how those who follow God's signs
                                        > > will be rightly
                                        > > guided
                                        > > > > > to the worship of Him alone; God said:
                                        > > > > > Quarn chp 6: verses 75-79
                                        > > > > > In this way we showed Abraham the kingdom of
                                        > > the heavens and
                                        > > the
                                        > > > > > earth so that he would have faith with
                                        > > understanding and
                                        > > > > certainty.
                                        > > > > > When the night covered him with darkness, he
                                        > > saw a star and
                                        > > > > > said: `This is my Lord', but when it set, he
                                        > > said: `I don't
                                        > > like
                                        > > > > > those that set.' When he saw the moon rising
                                        > > up, he said:
                                        > > `This is
                                        > > > > > my Lord', but when it set, he said: `Unless my
                                        > > Lord guides me,
                                        > > I
                                        > > > > > will certainly be among the people who went
                                        > > astray.' When he
                                        > > saw
                                        > > > > the
                                        > > > > > sun rising up he said: `This is my Lord, this
                                        > > is the greatest
                                        > > of
                                        > > > > > all.' But when it set, he said: `O my people!
                                        > > I am indeed free
                                        > > > > from
                                        > > > > > what you join as partners with Allah.
                                        > > > > > Verily, I have turned my face towards Allah
                                        > > who created the
                                        > > > > heavens
                                        > > > > > and the earth and I reject those who associate
                                        > > partners with
                                        > > Allah
                                        > > > > > (in worship).
                                        > > > > >
                                        > > > > > Actually, in the Qur'an God calls people to
                                        > > continuously look
                                        > > at
                                        > > > > the
                                        > > > > > Universe, as this will
                                        > > > > > affirm the divine truth of His existence, His
                                        > > greatness and
                                        > > that
                                        > > > > He
                                        > > > > > alone should be worshipped. God alone deserves
                                        > > our worship
                                        > > because
                                        > > > > > only He can answer our prayers. God says in
                                        > > the Qur'an:
                                        > > > > >
                                        > > > > > Quarn chp 40: verses 60.
                                        > > > > > "And your Lord says: Call on Me and I will
                                        > > answer your
                                        > > prayer."
                                        > > > > >
                                        > > > > > Hence, if a human being prays to an idol and
                                        > > his prayers are
                                        > > > > > answered, it is not the idol which actually
                                        > > answered his
                                        > > prayers
                                        > > > > but
                                        > > > > > God. Similarly, prayers to Jesus Christ,
                                        > > Buddha, Krishna,
                                        > > Saint
                                        > > > > > Christopher, Saint Jude or to Prophet
                                        > > Muhammad, are not
                                        > > answered by
                                        > > > > > them, but are answered by God. Consequently,
                                        > > prayer is an act
                                        > > of
                                        > > > > > worship which should be directed to God alone.
                                        > > > > >
                                        > > > > > Indeed, prophets who are worshipped besides
                                        > > Him did not tell
                                        > > > > people
                                        > > > > > to worship them. Instead, the prophets warned
                                        > > their people
                                        > > against
                                        > > > > > doing just that. For example, Islam teaches
                                        > > that Prophet Jesus
                                        > > > > > (mercy and peace of God be upon him) was a
                                        > > human being who was
                                        > > > > > created by God in a miraculous way.
                                        > > > > >
                                        > > > > > He was born of a mother, Mary, without a
                                        > > father and he
                                        > > worshipped
                                        > > > > > God. He was not God, nor was he the son of
                                        > > God. He was neither
                                        > > one
                                        > > > > > of three manifestations of God as Christians
                                        > > say, nor was a
                                        > > son
                                        > > > > born
                                        > > > > > out of wedlock as the Jews say.
                                        > > > > >
                                        > > > > > He told his people (the tribes of Israel) to
                                        > > worship God
                                        > > alone. He
                                        > > > > > did not tell people to worship either himself
                                        > > or his mother.
                                        > > > > > Furthermore, Prophet Jesus (mercy and peace of
                                        > > God be upon
                                        > > him)
                                        > > > > did
                                        > > > > > not worship himself when he worshipped, rather
                                        > > he worshipped
                                        > > God.
                                        > > > > >
                                        > > > > > However, those who claim to be the followers
                                        > > of Jesus Christ
                                        > > today
                                        > > > > > worship Jesus himself, claiming that he is
                                        > > God, and others
                                        > > also
                                        > > > > > worship his mother calling her `the mother of
                                        > > God.'! God says
                                        > > in
                                        > > > > the
                                        > > > > > Qur'an that He will ask Prophet Jesus (mercy
                                        > > and peace of God
                                        > > be
                                        > > > > > upon him) on the Day of Judgment:
                                        > > > > >
                                        > > > > > Quarn chp 5: verses 116-117.
                                        > > > > > O Jesus, son of Mary! Did you tell people:
                                        > > Take me and my
                                        > > mother
                                        > > > > as
                                        > > > > > gods besides Allah? Then he will say: Glory to
                                        > > you, I could
                                        > > never
                                        > > > > > say what I had no right to say. If I had said
                                        > > it, You would
                                        > > have
                                        > > > > > known it, You know what is within myself, but
                                        > > I do not know
                                        > > what
                                        > > > > is
                                        > > > > > within Yourself. Verily, You alone are the
                                        > > Knower of the
                                        > > unseen. I
                                        > > > > > did not say to them except what You commanded
                                        > > me; to worship
                                        > > > > Allah,
                                        > > > > > my Lord and your Lord, and I was a witness
                                        > > over them as long
                                        > > as I
                                        > > > > > was among them, but when You raised me up, You
                                        > > were the
                                        > > observer
                                        > > > > > over them, and You are the witness over all
                                        > > things.
                                        > > > > >
                                        > > > > > God emphasizes in the Qur'an that Prophet
                                        > > Jesus (mercy and
                                        > > peace
                                        > > > > of
                                        > > > > > God be upon him) was neither killed nor
                                        > > crucified, but God
                                        > > raised
                                        > > > > > him up into the heavens in body and spirit and
                                        > > he will be
                                        > > returned
                                        > > > > > to the earth before the end of the world.
                                        > > Prophet Muhammad
                                        > > (mercy
                                        > > > > > and peace of God be upon him) stated that
                                        > > Prohet Jesus would
                                        > > rule
                                        > > > > > the earth according to the Islamic law, then
                                        > > he will die on
                                        > > earth
                                        > > > > > like other human beings and will be buried and
                                        > > resurrected
                                        > > like
                                        > > > > them
                                        > > > > > on the Day of Judgment. Hence, Prophet Jesus
                                        > > who was given
                                        > > life,
                                        > > > > was
                                        > > > > > born from a woman's womb and circumcised, ate,
                                        > > slept, went to
                                        > > the
                                        > > > > > toilet, grew up, prayed, and will die, should
                                        > > never be taken
                                        > > as
                                        > > > > God
                                        > > > > > as all these characteristics are not the
                                        > > attributes of God,
                                        > > but of
                                        > > > > > His creatures.
                                        > > > > >
                                        > > > > > The New Testament states that Jesus Christ
                                        > > taught his
                                        > > followers to
                                        > > > > > pray to God saying:
                                        > > > > >
                                        > > > > > (Luke 11:2 / Matthew 6:9-10)
                                        > > > > > Our Father who art in heaven, hallowed be your
                                        > > name, your
                                        > > kingdom
                                        > > > > > come, your will be done on earth as it is in
                                        > > heaven."
                                        > > > > >
                                        > > > > > Also, he taught that only those who submit to
                                        > > God would
                                        > > inherit
                                        > > > > > paradise:
                                        > > > > >
                                        > > > > > (Matthew 7:21)
                                        > > > > > None of those who call me `Lord' will enter
                                        > > the Kingdom of
                                        > > God,
                                        > > > > > except one who does the will of my Father in
                                        > > heaven.
                                        > > > > >
                                        > > > > > Prophet Jesus also pointed out that he himself
                                        > > submitted to
                                        > > the
                                        > > > > will
                                        > > > > > of God:
                                        > > > > >
                                        > > > > > (John 5:23)
                                        > > > > > I cannot do anything of myself. I judge as I
                                        > > hear and my
                                        > > judgment
                                        > > > > > is honest because I am not seeking my own will
                                        > > but the will of
                                        > > Him
                                        > > > > > who sent me.
                                        > > > > >
                                        > > > > > In fact, there are many reports in the Gospels
                                        > > that show that
                                        > > > > > Prophet Jesus made it clear to his followers
                                        > > that he was not
                                        > > God.
                                        > > > > > For example, when speaking about the final
                                        > > hour, he said:
                                        > > > > >
                                        > > > > > (Mark 13:32)
                                        > > > > > No one knows about that day or hour, not even
                                        > > the angels in
                                        > > > > heaven,
                                        > > > > > not the son, but only the Father.
                                        > > > > >
                                        > > > > > Buddha, was a reformer who introduced a number
                                        > > of humanistic
                                        > > > > > principles in the Hindu religion practiced in
                                        > > India. He did
                                        > > not
                                        > > > > > claim to be God, nor did he suggest to his
                                        > > followers that he
                                        > > be
                                        > > > > > worshipped. Yet, today most Buddhists have
                                        > > made him their God
                                        > > and
                                        > > > > > they prostrate themselves before idols
                                        > > representing his
                                        > > likeness.
                                        > > > > > In brief, from the perspective of the object
                                        > > worshipped, all
                                        > > > > > religions today [except Islam] invite people
                                        > > to the worship of
                                        > > > > > creation!
                                        > > > > >
                                        > > > > > God's attributes point to the fact that God
                                        > > alone deserves
                                        > > > > worship.
                                        > > > > > He is One, without relatives; He has neither
                                        > > father, son,
                                        > > mother
                                        > > > > nor
                                        > > > > > wife. He is the Eternal Absolute. He neither
                                        > > gives birth, nor
                                        > > is
                                        > > > > He
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > === message truncated ===
                                        > > >
                                        > > >
                                        > > > =====
                                        > > >
                                        > >
                                        > ------------------------------------------------------------
                                        > > >
                                        > > > "Have you ever stood and stared at it? Marveled at
                                        > > its beauty?;
                                        > > its genius. Billions of people, just living out
                                        > > their lives --
                                        > > oblivious."
                                        > > >
                                        > > > __________________________________
                                        > > > Do you Yahoo!?
                                        > > > Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard - Read only the mail you
                                        > > want.
                                        > > > http://antispam.yahoo.com/tools
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > =====
                                        > --Monte Morris
                                        > Philosopher wannabe
                                        > Japan
                                        > "Needs to find a good quote"
                                        >
                                        >
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                                      • honeybaby2012
                                        Monte, The message of the quran is to everyone, the quran addresses all peoples as follows : o Man, o People, o believers, and never say o Christians or o
                                        Message 19 of 24 , Feb 26, 2004
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                                          Monte,
                                          The message of the quran is to everyone, the quran addresses all
                                          peoples as follows : o Man, o People, o believers, and never say o
                                          Christians or o muslims… so the message of the quran is for all
                                          humans and Jins.

                                          When I criticized Christianity for instance I always quoted from the
                                          bible, I have already researched into Christianity, Judaism and
                                          paganism.

                                          And I do not understand why you are always angry.

                                          how do you explain the following contradictions in the bible:

                                          The father is GOD, the son is GOD the Holy spirit is GOD.

                                          With "Thou shall not take any other God before me.


                                          Quote from monte:
                                          My suggestion: Take some time out, research other
                                          religions on their own terms rather than through a
                                          lens to criticize them with, and grow up.

                                          Answer from Honey,
                                          I have done deep research in the religions of Christianity, Judaism,
                                          and Paganism, I read a lot about religious leaders who abandoned the
                                          above ways of life and embraced Islam.

                                          So I would say I have quite enough knowledge to discuss / debate with
                                          you.

                                          With my best wishes,


                                          --- In theexistentialsociety@yahoogroups.com, Monte Morris
                                          <monteamorris@y...> wrote:
                                          > Honey,
                                          > I've been considering whether or not to dignify this
                                          > with a reply. It seems to me that I've already given
                                          > ample evidence against most of what you claim in here.
                                          > Or, perhaps what you cut and pasted from a website
                                          > without taking the time to read it. For example, I've
                                          > already countered that Christians do not worship Mary
                                          > and Buddhists do not worship a Buddha as a God. Why
                                          > then, do you repeat them here? To be quite honest, I
                                          > shouldn't even have to point these things out to you
                                          > as they are such fundamental points as to be beyond
                                          > debate. In fact, it would be impossible to find
                                          > sources to back those claims up because everyone who
                                          > knows anything about those religions already know
                                          > those facts. They aren't even things worthy of being
                                          > debated. Its like debating the color of the sky. Or if
                                          > there even is a sky. Everyone already knows that it's
                                          > there.
                                          > You have also failed to respond to my
                                          > counter-arguements to your idea that Buddhists statues
                                          > and the crucifix are graven images. And you have also
                                          > failed to adequately explain why Islam is not guilty
                                          > of the same things that you condemn other religions
                                          > for,albiet ignorantly, I might add.
                                          > Tell me why this deserves to be continued.
                                          > --Monte
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > > > > > > honeybaby2012 <honeybaby2012@y...> wrote:
                                          > > > > > > II. THE BASIC MESSAGE OF ISLAM
                                          > > > > > >
                                          > > > > > > The basic message of Islam is the same
                                          > > message of all the
                                          > > > previous
                                          > > > > > > prophets: worship God alone and avoid
                                          > > worshipping anything
                                          > > > besides
                                          > > > > > > Him, whether it is a person, place or thing,
                                          > > directly or
                                          > > > > > indirectly.
                                          > > > > > > This basic principle of Monotheism is
                                          > > contained in the opening
                                          > > > > > > chapter of the Quran, known as Soorat
                                          > > Al-Faatihah, verse
                                          > > > 4: "You
                                          > > > > > > alone we worship and from you alone we do
                                          > > seek help."
                                          > > > > > >
                                          > > > > > > In chp 4: verse 37, God also said:
                                          > > > > > > Worship Allah and do not associate partners
                                          > > with Him.
                                          > > > > > >
                                          > > > > > > Muhammad, the last Prophet (mercy and peace
                                          > > of God be upon
                                          > > > him) is
                                          > > > > > > reported to have said: "Anyone who says:
                                          > > There is no god
                                          > > > worthy of
                                          > > > > > > worship but Allah, and dies holding that
                                          > > belief will be
                                          > > > granted
                                          > > > > > > paradise.
                                          > > > > > >
                                          > > > > > >
                                          > > > > > > II. PROOFS FOR GOD'S RIGHT OF WORSHIP
                                          > > > > > >
                                          > > > > > > Only God should be worshipped because He is
                                          > > the Creator and
                                          > > > > > > sustainer of all that exists. This Great
                                          > > Universe and
                                          > > > everything
                                          > > > > > > that is in it cannot be the product of
                                          > > chance, and could not
                                          > > > have
                                          > > > > > > created itself. Signs testifying that God is
                                          > > the only Creator
                                          > > > can
                                          > > > > > be
                                          > > > > > > seen throughout the earth and in the very
                                          > > soul of each person.
                                          > > > God
                                          > > > > > > said in the Qur'an:
                                          > > > > > >
                                          > > > > > > Quran chp 14: verses 32-34
                                          > > > > > > It is Allah who Ceated the Sky and the
                                          > > Earth, and sent down
                                          > > > from
                                          > > > > > the
                                          > > > > > > sky water by which He brought forth fruits
                                          > > for your
                                          > > > sustenance. He
                                          > > > > > > subjected for you the Ships to sail upon the
                                          > > Sea at His
                                          > > > command,
                                          > > > > > and
                                          > > > > > > He subjected for you the Rivers. And He
                                          > > subjected for you the
                                          > > > Sun
                                          > > > > > > and Moon in continuous cycles, and He
                                          > > subjected for you the
                                          > > > Night
                                          > > > > > > and Day. And He gave you all you asked Him
                                          > > for.
                                          > > > > > >
                                          > > > > > > In the Qur'an, God mentions Prophet
                                          > > Abraham's search for truth
                                          > > > as
                                          > > > > > an
                                          > > > > > > example of how those who follow God's signs
                                          > > will be rightly
                                          > > > guided
                                          > > > > > > to the worship of Him alone; God said:
                                          > > > > > > Quarn chp 6: verses 75-79
                                          > > > > > > In this way we showed Abraham the kingdom of
                                          > > the heavens and
                                          > > > the
                                          > > > > > > earth so that he would have faith with
                                          > > understanding and
                                          > > > > > certainty.
                                          > > > > > > When the night covered him with darkness, he
                                          > > saw a star and
                                          > > > > > > said: `This is my Lord', but when it set, he
                                          > > said: `I don't
                                          > > > like
                                          > > > > > > those that set.' When he saw the moon rising
                                          > > up, he said:
                                          > > > `This is
                                          > > > > > > my Lord', but when it set, he said: `Unless
                                          > > my Lord guides me,
                                          > > > I
                                          > > > > > > will certainly be among the people who went
                                          > > astray.' When he
                                          > > > saw
                                          > > > > > the
                                          > > > > > > sun rising up he said: `This is my Lord,
                                          > > this is the greatest
                                          > > > of
                                          > > > > > > all.' But when it set, he said: `O my
                                          > > people! I am indeed free
                                          > > > > > from
                                          > > > > > > what you join as partners with Allah.
                                          > > > > > > Verily, I have turned my face towards Allah
                                          > > who created the
                                          > > > > > heavens
                                          > > > > > > and the earth and I reject those who
                                          > > associate partners with
                                          > > > Allah
                                          > > > > > > (in worship).
                                          > > > > > >
                                          > > > > > > Actually, in the Qur'an God calls people to
                                          > > continuously look
                                          > > > at
                                          > > > > > the
                                          > > > > > > Universe, as this will
                                          > > > > > > affirm the divine truth of His existence,
                                          > > His greatness and
                                          > > > that
                                          > > > > > He
                                          > > > > > > alone should be worshipped. God alone
                                          > > deserves our worship
                                          > > > because
                                          > > > > > > only He can answer our prayers. God says in
                                          > > the Qur'an:
                                          > > > > > >
                                          > > > > > > Quarn chp 40: verses 60.
                                          > > > > > > "And your Lord says: Call on Me and I will
                                          > > answer your
                                          > > > prayer."
                                          > > > > > >
                                          > > > > > > Hence, if a human being prays to an idol and
                                          > > his prayers are
                                          > > > > > > answered, it is not the idol which actually
                                          > > answered his
                                          > > > prayers
                                          > > > > > but
                                          > > > > > > God. Similarly, prayers to Jesus Christ,
                                          > > Buddha, Krishna,
                                          > > > Saint
                                          > > > > > > Christopher, Saint Jude or to Prophet
                                          > > Muhammad, are not
                                          > > > answered by
                                          > > > > > > them, but are answered by God. Consequently,
                                          > > prayer is an act
                                          > > > of
                                          > > > > > > worship which should be directed to God
                                          > > alone.
                                          > > > > > >
                                          > > > > > > Indeed, prophets who are worshipped besides
                                          > > Him did not tell
                                          > > > > > people
                                          > > > > > > to worship them. Instead, the prophets
                                          > > warned their people
                                          > > > against
                                          > > > > > > doing just that. For example, Islam teaches
                                          > > that Prophet Jesus
                                          > > > > > > (mercy and peace of God be upon him) was a
                                          > > human being who was
                                          > > > > > > created by God in a miraculous way.
                                          > > > > > >
                                          > > > > > > He was born of a mother, Mary, without a
                                          > > father and he
                                          > > > worshipped
                                          > > > > > > God. He was not God, nor was he the son of
                                          > > God. He was neither
                                          > > > one
                                          > > > > > > of three manifestations of God as Christians
                                          > > say, nor was a
                                          > > > son
                                          > > > > > born
                                          > > > > > > out of wedlock as the Jews say.
                                          > > > > > >
                                          > > > > > > He told his people (the tribes of Israel) to
                                          > > worship God
                                          > > > alone. He
                                          > > > > > > did not tell people to worship either
                                          > > himself or his mother.
                                          > > > > > > Furthermore, Prophet Jesus (mercy and peace
                                          > > of God be upon
                                          > > > him)
                                          > > > > > did
                                          > > > > > > not worship himself when he worshipped,
                                          > > rather he worshipped
                                          > > > God.
                                          > > > > > >
                                          > > > > > > However, those who claim to be the followers
                                          > > of Jesus Christ
                                          > > > today
                                          > > > > > > worship Jesus himself, claiming that he is
                                          > > God, and others
                                          > > > also
                                          > > > > > > worship his mother calling her `the mother
                                          > > of God.'! God says
                                          > > > in
                                          > > >
                                          > > === message truncated ===
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > > =====
                                          > >
                                          > ------------------------------------------------------------
                                          > >
                                          > > "Have you ever stood and stared at it? Marveled at
                                          > > its beauty?; its genius. Billions of people, just
                                          > > living out their lives -- oblivious."
                                          > >
                                          > > __________________________________
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                                          > > [Non-text portions of this message have been
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                                          > --Monte Morris
                                          > Philosopher wannabe
                                          > Japan
                                          > "Needs to find a good quote"
                                          >
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                                        • Shayne Seymour
                                          Might I politely suggest that you work on your delivery and tone. Quite frankly, you re coming across as a close-minded, arrogant ass. With my best wishes,
                                          Message 20 of 24 , Feb 26, 2004
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                                            Might I politely suggest that you work on your
                                            delivery and tone. Quite frankly, you're coming
                                            across as a close-minded, arrogant ass.

                                            With my best wishes,
                                            shayne

                                            --- honeybaby2012 <honeybaby2012@...> wrote:
                                            > Quote from monte:
                                            > My suggestion: Take some time out, research other
                                            > religions on their own terms rather than through a
                                            > lens to criticize them with, and grow up.
                                            >
                                            > Answer from Honey,
                                            > I have done deep research in the religions of
                                            > Christianity, Judaism,
                                            > and Paganism, I read a lot about religious leaders
                                            > who abandoned the
                                            > above ways of life and embraced Islam.
                                            >
                                            > So I would say I have quite enough knowledge to
                                            > discuss / debate with
                                            > you.
                                            >
                                            > With my best wishes,
                                            >
                                            >

                                            =====
                                            Shayne
                                            ouray21@...
                                            ~~~~~~~~~~~~~
                                            "I drink now and then at parties to avoid being caught sober."
                                            -Groucho Marx
                                            http://www.geocities.com/TelevisionCity/Studio/5280/blew.mp3

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                                          • Will Quinn
                                            Right on Shayne! Somebody had to say it sometime. Honey, your ignorance offends me, as you don t know anything about Christianity, Budhism, or probably any
                                            Message 21 of 24 , Feb 27, 2004
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                                              Right on Shayne! Somebody had to say it sometime.
                                              Honey, your ignorance offends me, as you don't know anything about Christianity, Budhism, or probably any other religion than your own. We have all tried to correct you, but you refuse to listen to reason or to respond to any evidence against your ideas. As a Christian and as a fairly well-read person, I know that things you have said are false. I have already tried to explain these points to you, but you have refused to listen. Don't tell me or anyone else that our religion (or lack thereof) is false or untrue without evidence. Your evidence is not from an external source (as Monte Morris was saying), so why should we believe your Quran? Your "deep research" is only propoganda, filled with lies.
                                              I know I sound a little angry, but I'm growing tired of this. Honey, if you can't argue properly, then don't waste our disk space.

                                              Cordially,
                                              Will

                                              Shayne Seymour <ouray21@...> wrote:
                                              Might I politely suggest that you work on your
                                              delivery and tone. Quite frankly, you're coming
                                              across as a close-minded, arrogant ass.

                                              With my best wishes,
                                              shayne

                                              --- honeybaby2012 <honeybaby2012@...> wrote:
                                              > Quote from monte:
                                              > My suggestion: Take some time out, research other
                                              > religions on their own terms rather than through a
                                              > lens to criticize them with, and grow up.
                                              >
                                              > Answer from Honey,
                                              > I have done deep research in the religions of
                                              > Christianity, Judaism,
                                              > and Paganism, I read a lot about religious leaders
                                              > who abandoned the
                                              > above ways of life and embraced Islam.
                                              >
                                              > So I would say I have quite enough knowledge to
                                              > discuss / debate with
                                              > you.
                                              >
                                              > With my best wishes,
                                              >
                                              >

                                              =====
                                              Shayne
                                              ouray21@...
                                              ~~~~~~~~~~~~~
                                              "I drink now and then at parties to avoid being caught sober."
                                              -Groucho Marx
                                              http://www.geocities.com/TelevisionCity/Studio/5280/blew.mp3

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                                            • Monte Morris
                                              ... Goodness, now here s a difficult question! If I don t believe in the soul, then why would I believe that there is some other substance that leaves my body
                                              Message 22 of 24 , Mar 3, 2004
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                                                > If you do not call the soul that leaves the body
                                                > when it dies "soul",
                                                > what do you call it then?. How does life is
                                                > separated from the body,
                                                > when it becomes lifeless?

                                                Goodness, now here's a difficult question! If I don't believe in the soul, then why would I believe that there is some other substance that leaves my body when I die? It really does seem that you don't listen to anything that I say. How does life seperate from the body when it becomes lifeless? Well, since I reject the assumption that this question rests on, that there is a dualistic existence consisting of body and soul, I can safely ignore this question. However, to answer it, I would say that I live, so therefore I die. One cannot die until one is born. It is part of existence; we are each going to die someday. There is a 100% correlation between living and dying, as well as a 100% correlation between dying and not coming back to life (at least in empirically observable forms.)
                                                What is lost when I die? My consciousness. What is it? My life functions, my life processes. Does Islam believe that animals and plants have souls the seperate from thier bodies when they die? They are also conscious of thier existence and struggle to stay alive. If Islam does not grant these forms of life souls, then why should humans alone have them? And to clinch the arguement, we die the same way they do. All as one, in the same chain of ecological harmony. Awwww, how sweet.

                                                "Life is my existence; when I am alive, I exist. Death is my non-existence; when I die, I cease to exist. Therefore, death is my annihilation. Where there is my death, I am not. Where I am, my death is not. Why then should I fear death?"


                                                >
                                                > You will find a lot of v. interesting things about
                                                > the soul here:
                                                > www.barnabas.net
                                                >
                                                OK. Thanks.


                                                > If no one created your brain, how did it come
                                                > about?, every machine
                                                > or equipment has operating manual, the operating
                                                > manual for human
                                                > beings is the quran.
                                                > With my best wishes.
                                                >
                                                ---Do you study biology? How about evolution? There are other, much more plausable arguements for the creation of the human brain. They can be tested and authorized.

                                                --- In theexistentialsociety@yahoogroups.com, Monte
                                                > Morris
                                                > <monteamorris@y...> wrote:
                                                > > Honey,
                                                > > these questions presuppose certain premises. Why
                                                > do
                                                > > you insist that everyone shares your premises? I
                                                > don't
                                                > > believe in a soul, and why does my brain have to
                                                > be
                                                > > created by someone?
                                                > >
                                                > > --Monte
                                                > > --- honeybaby2012 <honeybaby2012@y...> wrote:
                                                > > > AW,
                                                > > > Tell me, who created your brain?.
                                                > > > Where does your soul go when you die?.
                                                > > > My best wishes?
                                                > > >
                                                > > > --- In theexistentialsociety@yahoogroups.com,
                                                > "A.
                                                > > > W." <altool4@y...>
                                                > > > wrote:
                                                > > > >
                                                > > > > Oh no, we have a 1 tune trompet player.
                                                > > > > Please do not be closed minded. Do not talk
                                                > about
                                                > > > concepts like
                                                > > > creation, supreme being or "reason
                                                > > > > for existence" like if you have already find
                                                > their
                                                > > > meaning. I
                                                > > > understand you need security and
                                                > > > > some kind of backup for you to hold on unto
                                                > life,
                                                > > > but let me tell
                                                > > > you, do not be sattisfied, never
                                                > > > > be sure, because for what i am conscious of,
                                                > maybe
                                                > > > is all we got.
                                                > > > Our concept of the universe
                                                > > > > keeps changing throught human evolution and
                                                > > > knowledge is relative,
                                                > > > you need to understand
                                                > > > > everything changes, and that includes meaning
                                                > and
                                                > > > concepts.
                                                > > > Hopefully, people will understand
                                                > > > > religion and government are just forms of
                                                > > > manipulation and control
                                                > > > of the human, in his
                                                > > > > metaphisycal mind and in the way he exists in
                                                > > > society.
                                                > > > > For you to evolve, you need to kill god NOW,
                                                > > > before is too late!.
                                                > > > Kill the god image of all of
                                                > > > > this religions and find your way to understand
                                                > > > existence and
                                                > > > program your reality into your brain.
                                                > > > > Understand your brain, understand the
                                                > sistematic
                                                > > > society,
                                                > > > understand power and control, reality is
                                                > > > > flexible into eternity and there is an
                                                > infinite of
                                                > > > paths you can
                                                > > > choose from, thats what makes
                                                > > > > this moment eternal, and thats whats make
                                                > > > everything eternal, the
                                                > > > same way you and your brain can
                                                > > > > reach eternity in reality.
                                                > > > >
                                                > > > >
                                                > > > > --- honeybaby2012 <honeybaby2012@y...> wrote:
                                                > > > > > Helen,
                                                > > > > > This is not dogma, but a clear message from
                                                > your
                                                > > > creator & my
                                                > > > > > creator, the Supreme Being telling us the
                                                > reason
                                                > > > for our
                                                > > > existence,
                                                > > > > > and what we are supposed to do during our
                                                > brief
                                                > > > stay on the
                                                > > > planet
                                                > > > > > Earth.
                                                > > > > >
                                                > > > > > With my best wishes.
                                                > > > > > --- In
                                                > theexistentialsociety@yahoogroups.com,
                                                > > > helen steen
                                                > > > > > <hjsgermany2000@y...> wrote:
                                                > > > > > > Ok Honey,
                                                > > > > > > Why this site?
                                                > > > > > > What relevance has all this dogma got to
                                                > > > Existentialism?
                                                > > > > > > I don't get it.
                                                > > > > > > Helen
                                                > > > > > >
                                                > > > > > > honeybaby2012 <honeybaby2012@y...> wrote:
                                                > > > > > > II. THE BASIC MESSAGE OF ISLAM
                                                > > > > > >
                                                > > > > > > The basic message of Islam is the same
                                                > message
                                                > > > of all the
                                                > > > previous
                                                > > > > > > prophets: worship God alone and avoid
                                                > > > worshipping anything
                                                > > > besides
                                                > > > > > > Him, whether it is a person, place or
                                                > thing,
                                                > > > directly or
                                                > > > > > indirectly.
                                                > > > > > > This basic principle of Monotheism is
                                                > > > contained in the opening
                                                > > > > > > chapter of the Quran, known as Soorat
                                                > > > Al-Faatihah, verse
                                                > > > 4: "You
                                                > > > > > > alone we worship and from you alone we do
                                                > seek
                                                > > > help."
                                                > > > > > >
                                                > > > > > > In chp 4: verse 37, God also said:
                                                > > > > > > Worship Allah and do not associate
                                                > partners
                                                > > > with Him.
                                                > > > > > >
                                                > > > > > > Muhammad, the last Prophet (mercy and
                                                > peace of
                                                > > > God be upon
                                                > > > him) is
                                                > > > > > > reported to have said: "Anyone who says:
                                                > There
                                                > > > is no god
                                                > > > worthy of
                                                > > > > > > worship but Allah, and dies holding that
                                                > > > belief will be
                                                > > > granted
                                                > > > > > > paradise.
                                                > > > > > >
                                                > > > > > >
                                                > > > > > > II. PROOFS FOR GOD'S RIGHT OF WORSHIP
                                                > > > > > >
                                                > > > > > > Only God should be worshipped because He
                                                > is
                                                > > > the Creator and
                                                > > > > > > sustainer of all that exists. This Great
                                                > > > Universe and
                                                > > > everything
                                                > > > > > > that is in it cannot be the product of
                                                > chance,
                                                > > > and could not
                                                > > > have
                                                > > > > > > created itself. Signs testifying that God
                                                > is
                                                > > > the only Creator
                                                > > > can
                                                > > > > > be
                                                > > > > > > seen throughout the earth and in the very
                                                > soul
                                                > > > of each person.
                                                > > > God
                                                > > > > > > said in the Qur'an:
                                                > > > > > >
                                                > > > > > > Quran chp 14: verses 32-34
                                                > > > > > > It is Allah who Ceated the Sky and the
                                                > Earth,
                                                > > > and sent down
                                                > > > from
                                                > > > > > the
                                                > > > > > > sky water by which He brought forth fruits
                                                > for
                                                > > > your
                                                > > > sustenance. He
                                                > > > > > > subjected for you the Ships to sail upon
                                                > the
                                                > > > Sea at His
                                                > > > command,
                                                > > > > > and
                                                > > > > > > He subjected for you the Rivers. And He
                                                > > > subjected for you the
                                                > > > Sun
                                                > > > > > > and Moon in continuous cycles, and He
                                                > > > subjected for you the
                                                > > > Night
                                                > > > > > > and Day. And He gave you all you asked Him
                                                > > > for.
                                                > > > > > >
                                                > > > > > > In the Qur'an, God mentions Prophet
                                                > Abraham's
                                                > > > search for truth
                                                > > > as
                                                > > > > > an
                                                > > > > > > example of how those who follow God's
                                                > signs
                                                > > > will be rightly
                                                > > > guided
                                                > > > > > > to the worship of Him alone; God said:
                                                > > > > > > Quarn chp 6: verses 75-79
                                                > > > > > > In this way we showed Abraham the kingdom
                                                > of
                                                > > > the heavens and
                                                > > > the
                                                > > > > > > earth so that he would have faith with
                                                > > > understanding and
                                                > > > > > certainty.
                                                > > > > > > When the night covered him with darkness,
                                                > he
                                                > > > saw a star and
                                                > > > > > > said: `This is my Lord', but when it set,
                                                > he
                                                > > > said: `I don't
                                                > > > like
                                                > > > > > > those that set.' When he saw the moon
                                                > rising
                                                > > > up, he said:
                                                > > > `This is
                                                > > > > > > my Lord', but when it set, he said:
                                                > `Unless my
                                                > > > Lord guides me,
                                                > > > I
                                                > > > > > > will certainly be among the people who
                                                > went
                                                > > > astray.' When he
                                                > > > saw
                                                > > > > > the
                                                > > > > > > sun rising up he said: `This is my Lord,
                                                > this
                                                > > > is the greatest
                                                > > > of
                                                > > > > > > all.' But when it set, he said: `O my
                                                > people!
                                                > > > I am indeed free
                                                > > > > > from
                                                > > > > > > what you join as partners with Allah.
                                                > > > > > > Verily, I have turned my face towards
                                                > Allah
                                                > > > who created the
                                                > > > > > heavens
                                                > > > > > > and the earth and I reject those who
                                                > associate
                                                > > > partners with
                                                > > > Allah
                                                > > > > > > (in worship).
                                                > > > > > >
                                                > > > > > > Actually, in the Qur'an God calls people
                                                > to
                                                > > > continuously look
                                                > > > at
                                                > > > > > the
                                                > > > > > > Universe, as this will
                                                > > > > > > affirm the divine truth of His existence,
                                                > His
                                                > > > greatness and
                                                > > > that
                                                > > > > > He
                                                > > > > > > alone should be worshipped. God alone
                                                > deserves
                                                > > > our worship
                                                > > > because
                                                > > > > > > only He can answer our prayers. God says
                                                > in
                                                > > > the Qur'an:
                                                > > > > > >
                                                > > > > > > Quarn chp 40: verses 60.
                                                > > > > > > "And your Lord says: Call on Me and I will
                                                > > > answer your
                                                > > > prayer."
                                                > > > > > >
                                                > > > > > > Hence, if a human being prays to an idol
                                                > and
                                                > > > his prayers are
                                                > > > > > > answered, it is not the idol which
                                                > actually
                                                > > > answered his
                                                > > > prayers
                                                > > > > > but
                                                > > > > > > God. Similarly, prayers to Jesus Christ,
                                                > > > Buddha, Krishna,
                                                > > > Saint
                                                > > > > > > Christopher, Saint Jude or to Prophet
                                                > > > Muhammad, are not
                                                > > > answered by
                                                > > > > > > them, but are answered by God.
                                                > Consequently,
                                                > > > prayer is an act
                                                > > > of
                                                > > > > > > worship which should be directed to God
                                                > alone.
                                                > > > > > >
                                                > > > > > > Indeed, prophets who are worshipped
                                                > besides
                                                > > > Him did not tell
                                                > > > > > people
                                                > > > > > > to worship them. Instead, the prophets
                                                > warned
                                                > > > their people
                                                > > > against
                                                > > > > > > doing just that. For example, Islam
                                                > teaches
                                                > > > that Prophet Jesus
                                                > > > > > > (mercy and peace of God be upon him) was a
                                                > > > human being who was
                                                > > > > > > created by God in a miraculous way.
                                                > > > > > >
                                                > > > > > > He was born of a mother, Mary, without a
                                                > > > father and he
                                                > > > worshipped
                                                > > > > > > God. He was not God, nor was he the son of
                                                > > > God. He was neither
                                                > > > one
                                                > > > > > > of three manifestations of God as
                                                > Christians
                                                > > > say, nor was a
                                                > > > son
                                                > > > > > born
                                                > > > > > > out of wedlock as the Jews say.
                                                > > > > > >
                                                > > > > > > He told his people (the tribes of Israel)
                                                > to
                                                > > > worship God
                                                > > > alone. He
                                                > > > > > > did not tell people to worship either
                                                > himself
                                                > > > or his mother.
                                                > > > > > > Furthermore, Prophet Jesus (mercy and
                                                > peace of
                                                > > > God be upon
                                                > > > him)
                                                > > > > > did
                                                > > > > > > not worship himself when he worshipped,
                                                > rather
                                                > > > he worshipped
                                                > > > God.
                                                > > > > > >
                                                > > > > > > However, those who claim to be the
                                                > followers
                                                > > > of Jesus Christ
                                                > > > today
                                                > > > > > > worship Jesus himself, claiming that he is
                                                > > > God, and others
                                                > > > also
                                                > > > > > > worship his mother calling her `the mother
                                                > of
                                                > > > God.'! God says
                                                > > > in
                                                > > > > > the
                                                > > > > > > Qur'an that He will ask Prophet Jesus
                                                > (mercy
                                                > > > and peace of God
                                                > > > be
                                                > > > > > > upon him) on the Day of Judgment:
                                                > > > > > >
                                                > > > > > > Quarn chp 5: verses 116-117.
                                                > > > > > > O Jesus, son of Mary! Did you tell people:
                                                > > > Take me and my
                                                > > > mother
                                                > > > > > as
                                                > > > > > > gods besides Allah? Then he will say:
                                                > Glory to
                                                > > > you, I could
                                                > > > never
                                                > > > > > > say what I had no right to say. If I had
                                                > said
                                                > > > it, You would
                                                > > > have
                                                > > > > > > known it, You know what is within myself,
                                                > but
                                                > > > I do not know
                                                > > > what
                                                > > > > > is
                                                > > > > > > within Yourself. Verily, You alone are the
                                                > > > Knower of the
                                                > > > unseen. I
                                                > > > > > > did not say to them except what You
                                                > commanded
                                                > > > me; to worship
                                                > > > > > Allah,
                                                > > > > > > my Lord and your Lord, and I was a witness
                                                > > > over them as long
                                                > > > as I
                                                > > > > > > was among them, but when You raised me up,
                                                > You
                                                > > > were the
                                                > > > observer
                                                > > > > > > over them, and You are the witness over
                                                > all
                                                > > > things.
                                                > > > > > >
                                                > > > > > > God emphasizes in the Qur'an that Prophet
                                                > > > Jesus (mercy and
                                                > > > peace
                                                > > > > > of
                                                > > > > > > God be upon him) was neither killed nor
                                                > > > crucified, but God
                                                > > > raised
                                                > > > > > > him up into the heavens in body and spirit
                                                > and
                                                > > > he will be
                                                > > > returned
                                                > > > > > > to the earth before the end of the world.
                                                > > > Prophet Muhammad
                                                > > > (mercy
                                                > > > > > > and peace of God be upon him) stated that
                                                > > > Prohet Jesus would
                                                > > > rule
                                                > > > > > > the earth according to the Islamic law,
                                                > then
                                                > > > he will die on
                                                > > > earth
                                                > > > > > > like other human beings and will be buried
                                                > and
                                                > > > resurrected
                                                > > > like
                                                > > > > > them
                                                > > > > > > on the Day of Judgment. Hence, Prophet
                                                > Jesus
                                                > > > who was given
                                                > > > life,
                                                > > > > > was
                                                > > > > > > born from a woman's womb and circumcised,
                                                > ate,
                                                > > > slept, went to
                                                > > > the
                                                > > > > > > toilet, grew up, prayed, and will die,
                                                > should
                                                > > > never be taken
                                                > > > as
                                                > > > > > God
                                                > > > > > > as all these characteristics are not the
                                                > > > attributes of God,
                                                > > > but of
                                                > > > > > > His creatures.
                                                > > > > > >
                                                > > > > > > The New Testament states that Jesus Christ
                                                > > > taught his
                                                > > > followers to
                                                > > > > > > pray to God saying:
                                                > > > > > >
                                                > > > > > > (Luke 11:2 / Matthew 6:9-10)
                                                > > > > > > Our Father who art in heaven, hallowed be
                                                > your
                                                > > > name, your
                                                > > > kingdom
                                                > > > > > > come, your will be done on earth as it is
                                                > in
                                                > > > heaven."
                                                > > > > > >
                                                > > > > > > Also, he taught that only those who submit
                                                > to
                                                > > > God would
                                                > > > inherit
                                                > > > > > > paradise:
                                                > > > > > >
                                                > > > > > > (Matthew 7:21)
                                                > > > > > > None of those who call me `Lord' will
                                                > enter
                                                > > > the Kingdom of
                                                > > > God,
                                                > > > > > > except one who does the will of my Father
                                                > in
                                                > > > heaven.
                                                > > > > > >
                                                > > > > > > Prophet Jesus also pointed out that he
                                                > himself
                                                > > > submitted to
                                                > > > the
                                                > > > > > will
                                                > > > > > > of God:
                                                > > > > > >
                                                > > > > > > (John 5:23)
                                                > > > > > > I cannot do anything of myself. I judge
                                                > as I
                                                > > > hear and my
                                                > > > judgment
                                                > > > > > > is honest because I am not seeking my own
                                                > will
                                                > > > but the will of
                                                > > > Him
                                                > > > > > > who sent me.
                                                > > > > > >
                                                > > > > > > In fact, there are many reports in the
                                                > Gospels
                                                > > > that show that
                                                > > > > > > Prophet Jesus made it clear to his
                                                > followers
                                                > > > that he was not
                                                > > > God.
                                                > > > > > > For example, when speaking about the final
                                                > > > hour, he said:
                                                > > > > > >
                                                > > > > > > (Mark 13:32)
                                                > > > > > > No one knows about that day or hour, not
                                                > even
                                                > > > the angels in
                                                > > > > > heaven,
                                                > > > > > > not the son, but only the Father.
                                                > > > > > >
                                                > > > > > > Buddha, was a reformer who introduced a
                                                > number
                                                > > > of humanistic
                                                > > > > > > principles in the Hindu religion practiced
                                                > in
                                                > > > India. He did
                                                > > > not
                                                > > > > > > claim to be God, nor did he suggest to
                                                > his
                                                > > > followers that he
                                                > > > be
                                                > > > > > > worshipped. Yet, today most Buddhists have
                                                > > > made him their God
                                                > > > and
                                                > > > > > > they prostrate themselves before idols
                                                > > > representing his
                                                > > > likeness.
                                                > > > > > > In brief, from the perspective of the
                                                > object
                                                > > > worshipped, all
                                                > > > > > > religions today [except Islam] invite
                                                > people
                                                > > > to the worship of
                                                > > > > > > creation!
                                                > > > > > >
                                                > > > > > > God's attributes point to the fact that
                                                > God
                                                > > > alone deserves
                                                > > > > > worship.
                                                > > > > > > He is One, without relatives; He has
                                                > neither
                                                > > > father, son,
                                                > > > mother
                                                > > > > > nor
                                                > > > > > > wife. He is the Eternal Absolute. He
                                                > neither
                                                > > > gives birth, nor
                                                > > > is
                                                > > > > > He
                                                > > > > >
                                                > > > > === message truncated ===
                                                > > > >
                                                > > > >
                                                > > > > =====
                                                > > > >
                                                > > >
                                                > >
                                                > ------------------------------------------------------------
                                                > > > >
                                                > > > > "Have you ever stood and stared at it?
                                                > Marveled at
                                                > > > its beauty?;
                                                > > > its genius. Billions of people, just living out
                                                > > > their lives --
                                                > > > oblivious."
                                                > > > >
                                                > > > > __________________________________
                                                > > > > Do you Yahoo!?
                                                > > > > Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard - Read only the mail you
                                                > > > want.
                                                > > > > http://antispam.yahoo.com/tools
                                                > > >
                                                > > >
                                                > >
                                                > >
                                                > > =====
                                                > > --Monte Morris
                                                > > Philosopher wannabe
                                                > > Japan
                                                > > "Needs to find a good quote"
                                                > >
                                                > >
                                                > > __________________________________
                                                > > Do you Yahoo!?
                                                > > Get better spam protection with Yahoo! Mail.
                                                > > http://antispam.yahoo.com/tools
                                                >
                                                >



                                                --Monte Morris
                                                Philosopher wannabe
                                                Japan
                                                "Needs to find a good quote"


                                                ---------------------------------
                                                Do you Yahoo!?
                                                Yahoo! Search - Find what you�re looking for faster.

                                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                              • Monte Morris
                                                honeybaby2012 wrote: Monte, The message of the quran is to everyone, the quran addresses all peoples as follows : o Man, o People, o
                                                Message 23 of 24 , Mar 3, 2004
                                                • 0 Attachment
                                                  honeybaby2012 <honeybaby2012@...> wrote:
                                                  Monte,
                                                  The message of the quran is to everyone, the quran addresses all
                                                  peoples as follows : o Man, o People, o believers, and never say o
                                                  Christians or o muslims#12539;so the message of the quran is for all
                                                  humans and Jins.

                                                  ---I won't criticize the claim that the Quran is addressed to all people, but in making that claim, I would aslo place all other sacred texts, as well as numerous other writings from human history as addressed to all people. Therefore, the claim is neither unique nor terribly convincing, in light of your apparent motive.

                                                  When I criticized Christianity for instance I always quoted from the
                                                  bible, I have already researched into Christianity, Judaism and
                                                  paganism.

                                                  ----Cherry-picking quotes from the Bible that support your predetermined position does not constitute research.



                                                  And I do not understand why you are always angry.


                                                  --Bah! You haven't seen anything yet. I'm merely annoyed. Intellectual dishonesty IS one of the quickest ways to piss me off, though. In fact, I'm happy everyday and very much enjoy my life. But if you continue to evade my objections or act as though they have never been pressed, you could see some truly righteous anger before this is over. You've been warned. he he he


                                                  how do you explain the following contradictions in the bible:

                                                  The father is GOD, the son is GOD the Holy spirit is GOD.

                                                  With "Thou shall not take any other God before me.


                                                  ---See my previous posts where I explain the Trinity doctrine. Why ask a question that has already been answered? Do you think I'm stupid?

                                                  Quote from monte:
                                                  My suggestion: Take some time out, research other
                                                  religions on their own terms rather than through a
                                                  lens to criticize them with, and grow up.

                                                  Answer from Honey,
                                                  I have done deep research in the religions of Christianity, Judaism,
                                                  and Paganism, I read a lot about religious leaders who abandoned the
                                                  above ways of life and embraced Islam.

                                                  --Humbug. YOu've demonstrated no knowledge of any of these religions outside of the cherry picking you've done from Muslim critiques of the religions. This doesn't amount to "deep research." I've also read on Fundamentalist Christian websites, handouts, pamphlets, etc. of religious leaders who've embraced fire and brimestone Christianity. Does this prove its validity?



                                                  So I would say I have quite enough knowledge to discuss / debate with
                                                  you.

                                                  --Still waiting for you to demonsrate it.



                                                  With my best wishes,


                                                  --- In theexistentialsociety@yahoogroups.com, Monte Morris
                                                  <monteamorris@y...> wrote:
                                                  > Honey,
                                                  > I've been considering whether or not to dignify this
                                                  > with a reply. It seems to me that I've already given
                                                  > ample evidence against most of what you claim in here.
                                                  > Or, perhaps what you cut and pasted from a website
                                                  > without taking the time to read it. For example, I've
                                                  > already countered that Christians do not worship Mary
                                                  > and Buddhists do not worship a Buddha as a God. Why
                                                  > then, do you repeat them here? To be quite honest, I
                                                  > shouldn't even have to point these things out to you
                                                  > as they are such fundamental points as to be beyond
                                                  > debate. In fact, it would be impossible to find
                                                  > sources to back those claims up because everyone who
                                                  > knows anything about those religions already know
                                                  > those facts. They aren't even things worthy of being
                                                  > debated. Its like debating the color of the sky. Or if
                                                  > there even is a sky. Everyone already knows that it's
                                                  > there.
                                                  > You have also failed to respond to my
                                                  > counter-arguements to your idea that Buddhists statues
                                                  > and the crucifix are graven images. And you have also
                                                  > failed to adequately explain why Islam is not guilty
                                                  > of the same things that you condemn other religions
                                                  > for,albiet ignorantly, I might add.
                                                  > Tell me why this deserves to be continued.
                                                  > --Monte
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  > > > > > > honeybaby2012 <honeybaby2012@y...> wrote:
                                                  > > > > > > II. THE BASIC MESSAGE OF ISLAM
                                                  > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > > The basic message of Islam is the same
                                                  > > message of all the
                                                  > > > previous
                                                  > > > > > > prophets: worship God alone and avoid
                                                  > > worshipping anything
                                                  > > > besides
                                                  > > > > > > Him, whether it is a person, place or thing,
                                                  > > directly or
                                                  > > > > > indirectly.
                                                  > > > > > > This basic principle of Monotheism is
                                                  > > contained in the opening
                                                  > > > > > > chapter of the Quran, known as Soorat
                                                  > > Al-Faatihah, verse
                                                  > > > 4: "You
                                                  > > > > > > alone we worship and from you alone we do
                                                  > > seek help."
                                                  > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > > In chp 4: verse 37, God also said:
                                                  > > > > > > Worship Allah and do not associate partners
                                                  > > with Him.
                                                  > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > > Muhammad, the last Prophet (mercy and peace
                                                  > > of God be upon
                                                  > > > him) is
                                                  > > > > > > reported to have said: "Anyone who says:
                                                  > > There is no god
                                                  > > > worthy of
                                                  > > > > > > worship but Allah, and dies holding that
                                                  > > belief will be
                                                  > > > granted
                                                  > > > > > > paradise.
                                                  > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > > II. PROOFS FOR GOD'S RIGHT OF WORSHIP
                                                  > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > > Only God should be worshipped because He is
                                                  > > the Creator and
                                                  > > > > > > sustainer of all that exists. This Great
                                                  > > Universe and
                                                  > > > everything
                                                  > > > > > > that is in it cannot be the product of
                                                  > > chance, and could not
                                                  > > > have
                                                  > > > > > > created itself. Signs testifying that God is
                                                  > > the only Creator
                                                  > > > can
                                                  > > > > > be
                                                  > > > > > > seen throughout the earth and in the very
                                                  > > soul of each person.
                                                  > > > God
                                                  > > > > > > said in the Qur'an:
                                                  > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > > Quran chp 14: verses 32-34
                                                  > > > > > > It is Allah who Ceated the Sky and the
                                                  > > Earth, and sent down
                                                  > > > from
                                                  > > > > > the
                                                  > > > > > > sky water by which He brought forth fruits
                                                  > > for your
                                                  > > > sustenance. He
                                                  > > > > > > subjected for you the Ships to sail upon the
                                                  > > Sea at His
                                                  > > > command,
                                                  > > > > > and
                                                  > > > > > > He subjected for you the Rivers. And He
                                                  > > subjected for you the
                                                  > > > Sun
                                                  > > > > > > and Moon in continuous cycles, and He
                                                  > > subjected for you the
                                                  > > > Night
                                                  > > > > > > and Day. And He gave you all you asked Him
                                                  > > for.
                                                  > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > > In the Qur'an, God mentions Prophet
                                                  > > Abraham's search for truth
                                                  > > > as
                                                  > > > > > an
                                                  > > > > > > example of how those who follow God's signs
                                                  > > will be rightly
                                                  > > > guided
                                                  > > > > > > to the worship of Him alone; God said:
                                                  > > > > > > Quarn chp 6: verses 75-79
                                                  > > > > > > In this way we showed Abraham the kingdom of
                                                  > > the heavens and
                                                  > > > the
                                                  > > > > > > earth so that he would have faith with
                                                  > > understanding and
                                                  > > > > > certainty.
                                                  > > > > > > When the night covered him with darkness, he
                                                  > > saw a star and
                                                  > > > > > > said: `This is my Lord', but when it set, he
                                                  > > said: `I don't
                                                  > > > like
                                                  > > > > > > those that set.' When he saw the moon rising
                                                  > > up, he said:
                                                  > > > `This is
                                                  > > > > > > my Lord', but when it set, he said: `Unless
                                                  > > my Lord guides me,
                                                  > > > I
                                                  > > > > > > will certainly be among the people who went
                                                  > > astray.' When he
                                                  > > > saw
                                                  > > > > > the
                                                  > > > > > > sun rising up he said: `This is my Lord,
                                                  > > this is the greatest
                                                  > > > of
                                                  > > > > > > all.' But when it set, he said: `O my
                                                  > > people! I am indeed free
                                                  > > > > > from
                                                  > > > > > > what you join as partners with Allah.
                                                  > > > > > > Verily, I have turned my face towards Allah
                                                  > > who created the
                                                  > > > > > heavens
                                                  > > > > > > and the earth and I reject those who
                                                  > > associate partners with
                                                  > > > Allah
                                                  > > > > > > (in worship).
                                                  > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > > Actually, in the Qur'an God calls people to
                                                  > > continuously look
                                                  > > > at
                                                  > > > > > the
                                                  > > > > > > Universe, as this will
                                                  > > > > > > affirm the divine truth of His existence,
                                                  > > His greatness and
                                                  > > > that
                                                  > > > > > He
                                                  > > > > > > alone should be worshipped. God alone
                                                  > > deserves our worship
                                                  > > > because
                                                  > > > > > > only He can answer our prayers. God says in
                                                  > > the Qur'an:
                                                  > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > > Quarn chp 40: verses 60.
                                                  > > > > > > "And your Lord says: Call on Me and I will
                                                  > > answer your
                                                  > > > prayer."
                                                  > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > > Hence, if a human being prays to an idol and
                                                  > > his prayers are
                                                  > > > > > > answered, it is not the idol which actually
                                                  > > answered his
                                                  > > > prayers
                                                  > > > > > but
                                                  > > > > > > God. Similarly, prayers to Jesus Christ,
                                                  > > Buddha, Krishna,
                                                  > > > Saint
                                                  > > > > > > Christopher, Saint Jude or to Prophet
                                                  > > Muhammad, are not
                                                  > > > answered by
                                                  > > > > > > them, but are answered by God. Consequently,
                                                  > > prayer is an act
                                                  > > > of
                                                  > > > > > > worship which should be directed to God
                                                  > > alone.
                                                  > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > > Indeed, prophets who are worshipped besides
                                                  > > Him did not tell
                                                  > > > > > people
                                                  > > > > > > to worship them. Instead, the prophets
                                                  > > warned their people
                                                  > > > against
                                                  > > > > > > doing just that. For example, Islam teaches
                                                  > > that Prophet Jesus
                                                  > > > > > > (mercy and peace of God be upon him) was a
                                                  > > human being who was
                                                  > > > > > > created by God in a miraculous way.
                                                  > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > > He was born of a mother, Mary, without a
                                                  > > father and he
                                                  > > > worshipped
                                                  > > > > > > God. He was not God, nor was he the son of
                                                  > > God. He was neither
                                                  > > > one
                                                  > > > > > > of three manifestations of God as Christians
                                                  > > say, nor was a
                                                  > > > son
                                                  > > > > > born
                                                  > > > > > > out of wedlock as the Jews say.
                                                  > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > > He told his people (the tribes of Israel) to
                                                  > > worship God
                                                  > > > alone. He
                                                  > > > > > > did not tell people to worship either
                                                  > > himself or his mother.
                                                  > > > > > > Furthermore, Prophet Jesus (mercy and peace
                                                  > > of God be upon
                                                  > > > him)
                                                  > > > > > did
                                                  > > > > > > not worship himself when he worshipped,
                                                  > > rather he worshipped
                                                  > > > God.
                                                  > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > > However, those who claim to be the followers
                                                  > > of Jesus Christ
                                                  > > > today
                                                  > > > > > > worship Jesus himself, claiming that he is
                                                  > > God, and others
                                                  > > > also
                                                  > > > > > > worship his mother calling her `the mother
                                                  > > of God.'! God says
                                                  > > > in
                                                  > > >
                                                  > > === message truncated ===
                                                  > >
                                                  > >
                                                  > > =====
                                                  > >
                                                  > ------------------------------------------------------------
                                                  > >
                                                  > > "Have you ever stood and stared at it? Marveled at
                                                  > > its beauty?; its genius. Billions of people, just
                                                  > > living out their lives -- oblivious."
                                                  > >
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                                                • masqueradeux
                                                  how do you explain the following contradictions in the bible: The father is GOD, the son is GOD the Holy spirit is GOD. With Thou shall not take any other God
                                                  Message 24 of 24 , Jul 27, 2004
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                                                    how do you explain the following contradictions in the bible:

                                                    The father is GOD, the son is GOD the Holy spirit is GOD.

                                                    With "Thou shall not take any other God before me."

                                                    In trinitarian theology, this problem is solved by stipulating that
                                                    the word "God" in the commandment/verse "Though shall not take any
                                                    other God before for me" is reffering to the Godhead, which is the
                                                    trunity of the father son and holy spirit. THus, the word 'God' in
                                                    the first sentence you wrote is NOT reffering to the Godhead of the
                                                    second senstence but rather each individual member of the Godhead.
                                                    Each member of the Godhead is God in so far as they each are an
                                                    essential part of the triune Godhead, such that if one of them
                                                    ceased to be (stopped existing) the Godhead itself would be
                                                    destroyed.

                                                    So there is two senses to the word 'God,'and making this distinction
                                                    between the two senses avoids the numerical confusion; three persons
                                                    are essential memebers of one God, but individually they are not the
                                                    trinity since the collectively make up the Trinity.

                                                    If you're familiar with Platonism, I also think the Trinity does
                                                    wonders for solving classical philosophical problems. I can send
                                                    you my paper on it, if you like. This of course doesn't mean that
                                                    the Trinity exists per se, but it does vindicate as a internally
                                                    coherent.

                                                    -Derek
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