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Re: [The Existential Society] Am I just greedy and spoilt?

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  • Stone
    Hi. I don t know if anyone else has responded because my mail is being funky but I do not think you are being that way at all. I am not familiar with Camus but
    Message 1 of 10 , Apr 28, 2003
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      Hi. I don't know if anyone else has responded because my mail is being funky but I do not think you are being that way at all. I am not familiar with Camus but the absurd as you speak of it sounds like something I think about a lot. And I mean A LOT! I was just telling a girl at work today (who I am sure didn't want to hear it) that this world has got to be some kind of experiment because if it wasn't, there is no way we would have made this the world we all live in. This cannot be what we have chosen. And that, to me, is absurd. That we have made this world is absurd I mean. I know this isn't exactly what you were talking about but it is what I thought of. I am not sure exactly what you mean by "the world is not the way it was meant be" because I don't think it was "meant" to be any way but I do think we could have done better. It is absurd that we have not! Also I don't think that life should have meaning. I kinda like it without any meaning. That means that it is mine all mine. Maybe try exploring the freedom of it not having a meaning in place for you to live up to. It could help you get over the want for a meaning. Now as far as your wanting the questions of existence answered, man I am so with you on that. It is like the answers are right there just all over everything right in front of your face but you can't think of the right question to pick out an answer for. Or some shit like that. LoL. Man does that ever plague me. Not knowing how it is that I am here. Anyway, I am with you on that. I am not sure at all about the acceptance thing at all. Do you mean accepted by other people as who you are in general or accepted for what you are talking about here? Either way man, the way I look at it is this: There will be a day when we are ALL dead. Not just all the people living now but all humans all together. The sun will burn up if we haven't killed ourselves first and if we survive both of those it looks now as if the universe will expand at an ever increasing rate until all that is will be evenly distributed throughout the universe leaving NOTHING. Now the way I see it is in the face of all of that, how much does something like acceptance matter? I want to say "How much does anything matter?" and I would mean that but it sounds bad like I don't care about anything. But I do care and that is the beauty of looking at things in that way. When everything is stripped away, like looking at things my way does for me, it is very easy to choose what matters. It makes it so easy to see that which really matters. So thats what I think about that and if that isn't the kind of thing you were talking about then don't read that part you just read.I don't know why you can't be honest. I think it is so cool that you find this all so absurd though and that you seem to be coming from a similar place with it as I feel like I am. It sucks that you have to experience it too cuz it isn't pretty but for my own selfishness, there's one more who knows what I mean when I say such things. The most terrible thing about the absurdity is that it is self imposed. We created our reality. As far as the world we live in. Ah, fuck it. I've said my bit now I'll shut up for a while.

      Rob <killerkoz17@...> wrote:Hi all,

      I believe strongly in 'the absurd' as Camus described it. To me the
      absurd means that everything in the world is not the way it is meant
      to be. For example, life should have meaning but it doesnt, my
      questions about my existence should be able to be answered but are
      never are, i want to feel accepted but it isnt possible, i want to be
      able to be honest to people but i never can be, etc.

      I have accepted that this is the way the world is to me.
      But i want to know, do other people feel this way? that the universe
      is completely absurd, just full of things that should not be the way
      they are. Or am i just spoilt and want everything my own way?

      Thanks, Rob.


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    • Mary Jo Malo
      You are so on the right track. We did make this world, but I d like to know how you personally came to that conclusion? If you read The Blue Rose Project, you
      Message 2 of 10 , May 4, 2003
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        You are so on the right track. We did make this world, but I'd like
        to know how you personally came to that conclusion? If you read The
        Blue Rose Project, you find the author says we've just forgotten why!
        If we could remember why we made this place, things might not seem so
        absurd. We might be pissed off, sad, or many other things; but at
        least we'll know why. You can read a brief synopsis of the book in
        the Files section of the group or go direct and read it free at the
        website:

        http://www.angelfire.com/art/besidecoldwater/prj1/index.html
      • Stone
        Are you talking to me? Mary Jo Malo wrote:You are so on the right track. We did make this world, but I d like to know how you personally
        Message 3 of 10 , May 4, 2003
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          Are you talking to me?

          Mary Jo Malo <alcyon11@...> wrote:You are so on the right track. We did make this world, but I'd like
          to know how you personally came to that conclusion? If you read The
          Blue Rose Project, you find the author says we've just forgotten why!
          If we could remember why we made this place, things might not seem so
          absurd. We might be pissed off, sad, or many other things; but at
          least we'll know why. You can read a brief synopsis of the book in
          the Files section of the group or go direct and read it free at the
          website:

          http://www.angelfire.com/art/besidecoldwater/prj1/index.html



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          The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo.

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        • Mary Jo Malo
          Stone asks, Are you talking to me? Yes, I m talking to you. Mary Jo
          Message 4 of 10 , May 5, 2003
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            Stone asks, "Are you talking to me?"

            Yes, I'm talking to you.
            Mary Jo
          • Stone
            Alrighty then. You want to know how I come to the conclusion that we made this world? What other conclusion is there? We forgot why we made it this way huh? We
            Message 5 of 10 , May 6, 2003
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              Alrighty then. You want to know how I come to the conclusion that we made this world? What other conclusion is there? We forgot why we made it this way huh? We did it out of ignorance and we continue to be ignorant which is why we do nothing to change it. I'll look at this stuff of this guys but I am skeptical.

              Mary Jo Malo <alcyon11@...> wrote:Stone asks, "Are you talking to me?"

              Yes, I'm talking to you.
              Mary Jo




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            • maryjo malo
              Stone, It seems most people are content with the idea that somebody else is responsible, so we can place blame and/or plead ignorance for our fallen state and
              Message 6 of 10 , May 7, 2003
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                Stone,

                It seems most people are content with the idea that somebody else is responsible, so we can place blame and/or plead ignorance for our fallen state and the confusion that seems to reign here. Then we can either try to �figure� it out or not - and just live our lives as we choose. If one goes the personal responsibility route, one would almost have to conclude that we�ve forgotten something along the way or have yet to learn it. Ignorance is simply not having all the information. Ignorance is a double edged sword - bliss or torment - for you or others. Are you curious about how we made it?

                Mary Jo


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              • shelleysnightmare
                In order to consider life or the universe to be absurd one must have a non-absurd version to make such a comparison. Otherwise how does one know that life or
                Message 7 of 10 , May 17, 2003
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                  In order to consider life or the universe to be absurd one must have a
                  non-absurd version to make such a comparison.
                  Otherwise how does one know that life or the universe to be absurd?
                  The universe instead of being good,evil or absurd may be just what it
                  is.
                  Neither good,bad or absurd but simply the universe.
                  When the wind blows or the rain falls it simply is a natural
                  phenomenon.It is neither good or bad except when it injures us or
                  helps us in some manner.
                  But then that's only our interpretation based on our self-interests.
                  A hurricane is just a natural phenomenon,but when it kills human
                  beings we take it personally as a curse or punishment.
                  That's why some of us call it an act of god,because originally they
                  may have interpreted such occurences as having been caused by divine
                  providence in response to our actions.
                  So instead of being a mere act of nature the hurricane becomes a
                  tragedy when it kills someone. Had it not hurt anyone it would have
                  been shrugged off as just another natural phenomenon.
                  Perhaps the only thing that may be absurd is our attitude or thoughts
                  about this. We want there to be some meaning in this world and we
                  want things to be good as opposed to bad.
                  It may be our way of looking at this matter that is absurd.
                  In ancient times and today we have had diviners or fortune tellers
                  that have tried to see the hands of fate in the entrails of sheep,the
                  pattern of birds flying,the pattern that a bunch of sticks make when
                  you drop them on the ground and in other occurences.
                  It is this search for a pattern or meaning in something that seems
                  totally random that may be the ultimate absurdity of all.
                  Human nature is the absurdity not the universe.
                  If the universe however is the manifestation of our very nature then
                  you can call it absurd,because it is then an extension of our own
                  absurdity.
                  We think the world is bad or evil because in our minds we have a
                  concept of a better or more perfect world without pain or
                  suffering,without war,violence,hatred and everything else undesirable.
                  But obviously such a world does not exist outside of us.
                  So we think that this world is bad or evil because it does'nt match
                  our inner concept of what the ideal world is to be like.
                  Here again this may be an absurdity to judge the world by an
                  unrealistic and unrealizable image of what we want this world to be.
                  As for meaning in life that is something you must find for
                  yourself,because that is not something that is handed out or
                  guaranteed to anyone.
                  Even Jean-Paul Sartre had said that life in itself has no meaning or
                  purpose other than what you give it.
                  For someone a meaningful life can be to help the needy,for someone
                  else it can be saving the environment,and for another it can be
                  spreading the cause of marxism around the world.
                  Meaning and purpose exists only in the mind and not outside of it.
                  It is not the same for you and me or someone else.
                  Your wanting of the universe and life itself to be other than absurd
                  and to be meaningful is dependent only on your perception of it.
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