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Re: ADMIN NOTE: SAFETY MESSAGE: Hydration

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  • firerx
    ... illness. ... + ... temperature, ... than 1 ... Avoid ... much ... during ... drink ... fluid. ... pay ... cause ... tomato ... cause ... urine, ... in ...
    Message 1 of 13 , Jun 30, 2008
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      --- In SoCalFire@yahoogroups.com, John Gleichweit <smokeybehr@...>
      wrote:
      >
      > Over the last week on the Indians fire, at least one firefighter or
      > handcrew member has gone down each day due to a heat-related
      illness.
      > The following information is provided for firefighter safety:
      >
      >
      > HYDRATION
      >
      > Studies conducted on wildland firefighters indicate that fire
      > suppression activities generate about 7.5 kilocalories of heat each
      > minute worked, or 450 kilocalories for each hour. Additional heat
      > (about 180 kilocalories per hour) comes from the environment and the
      > fire. The total heat load amounts to 580 kilocalories per hour (400
      +
      > 180 = 580). Complete evaporation of 1 liter of sweat removes 580
      > kilocalories of heat. In order to maintain a healthy body
      temperature,
      > the firefighter needs to evaporate about 1 liter (slightly more
      than 1
      > quart) of sweat during each hour of work.
      >
      > Maintaining body fluids is essential for sweating. You must hydrate
      > before, during, and after work.
      >
      > Before work you should take extra fluids to prepare for the heat.
      > Drink 1 or 2 cups of water, juice, or a sport drink before work.
      Avoid
      > excess caffeine; it hastens fluid loss in the urine.
      >
      > While working drink at least 1 quart of fluid per hour. Drink as
      much
      > as you can during the lunch break. Water is your greatest need
      during
      > work in the heat.
      >
      > Providing a portion of fluid replacement with a
      > carbohydrate/electrolyte sport beverage will help you retain fluids
      > and maintain energy and electrolyte levels.
      >
      > After work it is important to continue drinking to replace fluid
      > losses. Thirst always underestimates fluid needs, so you should
      drink
      > more than you think you need.
      >
      > Rehydration is enhanced when fluids contain sodium and potassium, or
      > when foods with these electrolytes are consumed along with the
      fluid.
      >
      > Unacclimatized workers lose more salt in the heat so they need to
      pay
      > particular attention to salt replacement. Don't overdo salt intake;
      > too much salt impairs temperature regulation. Excessive salt can
      cause
      > stomach distress, fatigue, and other problems.
      >
      > Make potassium-rich foods like bananas and citrus fruits a regular
      > part of your diet, and drink lots of lemonade, orange juice, or
      tomato
      > juice.
      >
      > Limit the amount of caffeine drinks such as coffee and colas because
      > caffeine increases fluid loss. Avoid alcoholic drinks. They also
      cause
      > dehydration.
      >
      > You can assess your hydration by observing the volume, color, and
      > concentration of your urine. Low volumes of dark, concentrated
      urine,
      > or painful urination indicate a serious need for rehydration. Other
      > signs of dehydration include a rapid heart rate, weakness, excessive
      > fatigue, and dizziness.
      >
      > Rapid loss of several pounds of body weight is a certain sign of
      > dehydration. Rehydrate before returning to work; continuing to work
      in
      > a dehydrated state can lead to serious consequences, including heat
      > stroke, muscle breakdown, and kidney failure.
      >

      Hey John,
      Please inform our USFS Hot Shot Supervisors of this. While on Div. T
      cutting major hand line construction project with 3 hot shot crews,
      the Cal Fire Captains observe sign of heat exuastion, and one of my
      Captains offer his Gatorade to a sufffering firefighter. His
      supervisor interjected and refused him to drink it until they came
      off the mountain. Incidently, he was one of the 6 hot shot cremembers
      flown out from Division "T" with heat exuastion. Someone need to
      advise the supers there no need to push the edge of the envelop with
      peoples live. I still see that same dumb ass " Can-Do" attitude that
      killed 14 on Storm King Mountian in today's Hot shot Crews. Problem
      is they still cut crappy finish line, And I refuse to clean up after
      the so called "elite" hot shots that still look down on Cal Fire
      crews as type #2's.
    • Kim Noyes
      Jason, The listowner of this group is a firefighter who is currently on the Indians Fire up my way. At least one of his mods is or was one as are two of the
      Message 2 of 13 , Jun 30, 2008
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        Jason,
        The listowner of this group is a firefighter who is currently on the Indians Fire up my way.
        At least one of his mods is or was one as are two of the mods on California Disasters.
        Some of the regular contributors here are firefighters such as Chris Nichols.
        Then there are all the phire photogs like Mike Meadows.

        Kim 

        On Mon, Jun 30, 2008 at 11:36 PM, <Fizzboy7@...> wrote:

        In a message dated 6/30/2008 11:06:32 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, kimnoyes@... writes:
        Jason,
        There are as many firefighters on these scanner and fire and disaster groups as there are any other single demographic group.
        They join these groups to keep abreast of what is going on because just like any other type of war they often don't know much about what is going on outside their own unit or incident or branch or division and sometimes do have access to the internet.
        These people certainly know where to find the info themselves.
        However, they often don't want to have to take the time to hunt down information from widely disparate  sources but like to be able to simply log onto Yahoo Groups or check their email inbox to get quick updates on information already collated for them for easy access and digestion. 

        Kim Patrick Noyes
        Atascadero, CA
        Most interesting.   I've yet to see many firefighters or officials make posts here, so that's kinda way I suspected they aren't looking much.    But glad they are!     It's certainly a bounty of info for all.
        Thanks,
        Jason






        .




        --
        Check out http://groups.yahoo.com/group/californiadisasters/
        Check out my blog at http://eclecticarcania.blogspot.com/
        Check out my Myspace Profile at http://www.myspace.com/kimusinteruptus
        Check out my online scanner feed: http://scanner.alecwasserman.com/cencoastscanner.m3u
      • BluezMan (aka Steve R)
        dont forget us medics ... -- -- eats the blues for breakfast, does unix for rent, plays harp for food, will play the flute for kicks rides for the freedom
        Message 3 of 13 , Jun 30, 2008
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          dont forget us medics

          Kim Noyes wrote:
          >
          > Jason,
          > The listowner of this group is a firefighter who is currently on the
          > Indians Fire up my way.
          > At least one of his mods is or was one as are two of the mods on
          > California Disasters.
          > Some of the regular contributors here are firefighters such as Chris
          > Nichols.
          > Then there are all the phire photogs like Mike Meadows.
          >
          > Kim
          >
          > On Mon, Jun 30, 2008 at 11:36 PM, <Fizzboy7@...
          > <mailto:Fizzboy7@...>> wrote:
          >
          > In a message dated 6/30/2008 11:06:32 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
          > kimnoyes@... <mailto:kimnoyes@...> writes:
          >
          > Jason,
          > There are as many firefighters on these scanner and fire and
          > disaster groups as there are any other single demographic group.
          > They join these groups to keep abreast of what is going on
          > because just like any other type of war they often don't know
          > much about what is going on outside their own unit or incident
          > or branch or division and sometimes do have access to the
          > internet.
          > These people certainly know where to find the info themselves.
          > However, they often don't want to have to take the time to
          > hunt down information from widely disparate sources but like
          > to be able to simply log onto Yahoo Groups or check their
          > email inbox to get quick updates on information already
          > collated for them for easy access and digestion.
          >
          > Kim Patrick Noyes
          > Atascadero, CA
          >
          > Most interesting. I've yet to see many firefighters or officials
          > make posts here, so that's kinda way I suspected they aren't
          > looking much. But glad they are! It's certainly a bounty of
          > info for all.
          > Thanks,
          > Jason
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
          >
          >
          > .
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > --
          > Check out http://groups.yahoo.com/group/californiadisasters/
          > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/californiadisasters/>
          > Check out my blog at http://eclecticarcania.blogspot.com/
          > <http://eclecticarcania.blogspot.com/>
          > Check out my Myspace Profile at http://www.myspace.com/kimusinteruptus
          > <http://www.myspace.com/kimusinteruptus>
          > Check out my online scanner feed:
          > http://scanner.alecwasserman.com/cencoastscanner.m3u
          > <http://scanner.alecwasserman.com/cencoastscanner.m3u>
          >


          --
          --
          eats the blues for breakfast,
          does unix for rent,
          plays harp for food,
          will play the flute for kicks
          rides for the freedom
          scrapes for the challenge
        • Kim Noyes
          Steve, You re absolutely right; my apologies for leaving you guys and gals out. ;-) Kim On Mon, Jun 30, 2008 at 11:53 PM, BluezMan (aka Steve R)
          Message 4 of 13 , Jul 1, 2008
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            Steve,
            You're absolutely right; my apologies for leaving you guys and gals out. ;-)

            Kim

            On Mon, Jun 30, 2008 at 11:53 PM, BluezMan (aka Steve R) <stever@...> wrote:

            dont forget us medics



            Kim Noyes wrote:
            >
            > Jason,
            > The listowner of this group is a firefighter who is currently on the
            > Indians Fire up my way.
            > At least one of his mods is or was one as are two of the mods on
            > California Disasters.
            > Some of the regular contributors here are firefighters such as Chris
            > Nichols.
            > Then there are all the phire photogs like Mike Meadows.
            >
            > Kim
            >
            > On Mon, Jun 30, 2008 at 11:36 PM, <Fizzboy7@...
            > <mailto:Fizzboy7@...>> wrote:
            >
            > In a message dated 6/30/2008 11:06:32 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
            > kimnoyes@... <mailto:kimnoyes@...> writes:
            >
            > Jason,
            > There are as many firefighters on these scanner and fire and
            > disaster groups as there are any other single demographic group.
            > They join these groups to keep abreast of what is going on
            > because just like any other type of war they often don't know
            > much about what is going on outside their own unit or incident
            > or branch or division and sometimes do have access to the
            > internet.
            > These people certainly know where to find the info themselves.
            > However, they often don't want to have to take the time to
            > hunt down information from widely disparate sources but like
            > to be able to simply log onto Yahoo Groups or check their
            > email inbox to get quick updates on information already
            > collated for them for easy access and digestion.
            >
            > Kim Patrick Noyes
            > Atascadero, CA
            >
            > Most interesting. I've yet to see many firefighters or officials
            > make posts here, so that's kinda way I suspected they aren't
            > looking much. But glad they are! It's certainly a bounty of
            > info for all.
            > Thanks,
            > Jason
             






            --
            Check out http://groups.yahoo.com/group/californiadisasters/
            Check out my blog at http://eclecticarcania.blogspot.com/
            Check out my Myspace Profile at http://www.myspace.com/kimusinteruptus
            Check out my online scanner feed: http://scanner.alecwasserman.com/cencoastscanner.m3u
          • John Gleichweit
            The owner (me) and the moderators of the list have over 100 years of combined experience in public safety, mainly in fire and PS communications. We ve been
            Message 5 of 13 , Jul 1, 2008
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              The owner (me) and the moderators of the list have over 100 years of
              combined experience in public safety, mainly in fire and PS
              communications. We've been there, done that, and have the stack of
              T-shirts to prove it. I know for a fact that there are plenty of fire
              personnel and their families subscribed to the list, and hopefully my
              messages are getting out to them.

              If you guys want, I can start posting a daily safety message for
              everyone.

              On Tue, 1 Jul 2008 02:36:48 EDT, you wrote:

              >
              >In a message dated 6/30/2008 11:06:32 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
              >kimnoyes@... writes:
              >
              >Jason,
              >There are as many firefighters on these scanner and fire and disaster groups
              >as there are any other single demographic group.
              >They join these groups to keep abreast of what is going on because just like
              >any other type of war they often don't know much about what is going on
              >outside their own unit or incident or branch or division and sometimes do have
              >access to the internet.
              >These people certainly know where to find the info themselves.
              >However, they often don't want to have to take the time to hunt down
              >information from widely disparate sources but like to be able to simply log onto
              >Yahoo Groups or check their email inbox to get quick updates on information
              >already collated for them for easy access and digestion.
              >
              >Kim Patrick Noyes
              >Atascadero, CA
              >
              >
              >Most interesting. I've yet to see many firefighters or officials make
              >posts here, so that's kinda way I suspected they aren't looking much. But glad
              >they are! It's certainly a bounty of info for all.
              >Thanks,
              >Jason
              >
              >
            • denrob123
              As a ski patroller we use one of the mountaineer s creeds to guide us in proper hydration, especially when we re in the backcountry: urine should be clear and
              Message 6 of 13 , Jul 1, 2008
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                As a ski patroller we use one of the mountaineer's creeds to guide
                us in proper hydration, especially when we're in the backcountry:

                urine should be "clear and copious"

                This "clear and copious" reminder is a readily-apparent guide to
                knowing if you're properly hydrated. It's much easier to stay ahead
                of proper hydration rather than try to catch up when hydration
                levels have dropped. Water is the best hydrator but sports drinks
                with electrolyte replacements are good supplements as well,
                especially when followed with water. We've also seen good results
                with sports drinks that contain proteins to sustain energy,
                especially in particularly hot or cold conditions that can tax the
                body. The notes below on proper nutrition really help with proper
                hydration more than most realize. Caffine really works against
                proper hydration.

                Dennis Robertson
                Snow Valley Mountain Patrol



                --- In SoCalFire@yahoogroups.com, John Gleichweit <smokeybehr@...>
                wrote:
                >
                > Over the last week on the Indians fire, at least one firefighter or
                > handcrew member has gone down each day due to a heat-related
                illness.
                > The following information is provided for firefighter safety:
                >
                >
                > HYDRATION
                >
                > Studies conducted on wildland firefighters indicate that fire
                > suppression activities generate about 7.5 kilocalories of heat each
                > minute worked, or 450 kilocalories for each hour. Additional heat
                > (about 180 kilocalories per hour) comes from the environment and
                the
                > fire. The total heat load amounts to 580 kilocalories per hour
                (400 +
                > 180 = 580). Complete evaporation of 1 liter of sweat removes 580
                > kilocalories of heat. In order to maintain a healthy body
                temperature,
                > the firefighter needs to evaporate about 1 liter (slightly more
                than 1
                > quart) of sweat during each hour of work.
                >
                > Maintaining body fluids is essential for sweating. You must hydrate
                > before, during, and after work.
                >
                > Before work you should take extra fluids to prepare for the heat.
                > Drink 1 or 2 cups of water, juice, or a sport drink before work.
                Avoid
                > excess caffeine; it hastens fluid loss in the urine.
                >
                > While working drink at least 1 quart of fluid per hour. Drink as
                much
                > as you can during the lunch break. Water is your greatest need
                during
                > work in the heat.
                >
                > Providing a portion of fluid replacement with a
                > carbohydrate/electrolyte sport beverage will help you retain fluids
                > and maintain energy and electrolyte levels.
                >
                > After work it is important to continue drinking to replace fluid
                > losses. Thirst always underestimates fluid needs, so you should
                drink
                > more than you think you need.
                >
                > Rehydration is enhanced when fluids contain sodium and potassium,
                or
                > when foods with these electrolytes are consumed along with the
                fluid.
                >
                > Unacclimatized workers lose more salt in the heat so they need to
                pay
                > particular attention to salt replacement. Don't overdo salt intake;
                > too much salt impairs temperature regulation. Excessive salt can
                cause
                > stomach distress, fatigue, and other problems.
                >
                > Make potassium-rich foods like bananas and citrus fruits a regular
                > part of your diet, and drink lots of lemonade, orange juice, or
                tomato
                > juice.
                >
                > Limit the amount of caffeine drinks such as coffee and colas
                because
                > caffeine increases fluid loss. Avoid alcoholic drinks. They also
                cause
                > dehydration.
                >
                > You can assess your hydration by observing the volume, color, and
                > concentration of your urine. Low volumes of dark, concentrated
                urine,
                > or painful urination indicate a serious need for rehydration. Other
                > signs of dehydration include a rapid heart rate, weakness,
                excessive
                > fatigue, and dizziness.
                >
                > Rapid loss of several pounds of body weight is a certain sign of
                > dehydration. Rehydrate before returning to work; continuing to
                work in
                > a dehydrated state can lead to serious consequences, including heat
                > stroke, muscle breakdown, and kidney failure.
                >
              • Michael Meadows
                Please guys, lets not make this a post after post thing. Anyone who shoots these fires or works them knows all about hydration.....drink, drink and then drink
                Message 7 of 13 , Jul 1, 2008
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                  Please guys, lets not make this a post after post thing. Anyone who shoots these fires or works them knows all about hydration.....drink, drink and then drink more...simple.
                  On Jul 1, 2008, at 11:03 AM, denrob123 wrote:

                  As a ski patroller we use one of the mountaineer's creeds to guide
                  us in proper hydration, especially when we're in the backcountry:

                  urine should be "clear and copious"

                  This "clear and copious" reminder is a readily-apparent guide to
                  knowing if you're properly hydrated. It's much easier to stay ahead
                  of proper hydration rather than try to catch up when hydration
                  levels have dropped. Water is the best hydrator but sports drinks
                  with electrolyte replacements are good supplements as well,
                  especially when followed with water. We've also seen good results
                  with sports drinks that contain proteins to sustain energy,
                  especially in particularly hot or cold conditions that can tax the
                  body. The notes below on proper nutrition really help with proper
                  hydration more than most realize. Caffine really works against
                  proper hydration.

                  Dennis Robertson
                  Snow Valley Mountain Patrol

                  --- In SoCalFire@yahoogroups.com, John Gleichweit <smokeybehr@...>
                  wrote:
                  >
                  > Over the last week on the Indians fire, at least one firefighter or
                  > handcrew member has gone down each day due to a heat-related
                  illness.
                  > The following information is provided for firefighter safety:
                  >
                  >
                  > HYDRATION
                  >
                  > Studies conducted on wildland firefighters indicate that fire
                  > suppression activities generate about 7.5 kilocalories of heat each
                  > minute worked, or 450 kilocalories for each hour. Additional heat
                  > (about 180 kilocalories per hour) comes from the environment and
                  the
                  > fire. The total heat load amounts to 580 kilocalories per hour
                  (400 +
                  > 180 = 580). Complete evaporation of 1 liter of sweat removes 580
                  > kilocalories of heat. In order to maintain a healthy body
                  temperature,
                  > the firefighter needs to evaporate about 1 liter (slightly more
                  than 1
                  > quart) of sweat during each hour of work.
                  >
                  > Maintaining body fluids is essential for sweating. You must hydrate
                  > before, during, and after work.
                  >
                  > Before work you should take extra fluids to prepare for the heat.
                  > Drink 1 or 2 cups of water, juice, or a sport drink before work.
                  Avoid
                  > excess caffeine; it hastens fluid loss in the urine.
                  >
                  > While working drink at least 1 quart of fluid per hour. Drink as
                  much
                  > as you can during the lunch break. Water is your greatest need
                  during
                  > work in the heat.
                  >
                  > Providing a portion of fluid replacement with a
                  > carbohydrate/electrolyte sport beverage will help you retain fluids
                  > and maintain energy and electrolyte levels.
                  >
                  > After work it is important to continue drinking to replace fluid
                  > losses. Thirst always underestimates fluid needs, so you should
                  drink
                  > more than you think you need.
                  >
                  > Rehydration is enhanced when fluids contain sodium and potassium,
                  or
                  > when foods with these electrolytes are consumed along with the
                  fluid.
                  >
                  > Unacclimatized workers lose more salt in the heat so they need to
                  pay
                  > particular attention to salt replacement. Don't overdo salt intake;
                  > too much salt impairs temperature regulation. Excessive salt can
                  cause
                  > stomach distress, fatigue, and other problems.
                  >
                  > Make potassium-rich foods like bananas and citrus fruits a regular
                  > part of your diet, and drink lots of lemonade, orange juice, or
                  tomato
                  > juice.
                  >
                  > Limit the amount of caffeine drinks such as coffee and colas
                  because
                  > caffeine increases fluid loss. Avoid alcoholic drinks. They also
                  cause
                  > dehydration.
                  >
                  > You can assess your hydration by observing the volume, color, and
                  > concentration of your urine. Low volumes of dark, concentrated
                  urine,
                  > or painful urination indicate a serious need for rehydration. Other
                  > signs of dehydration include a rapid heart rate, weakness,
                  excessive
                  > fatigue, and dizziness.
                  >
                  > Rapid loss of several pounds of body weight is a certain sign of
                  > dehydration. Rehydrate before returning to work; continuing to
                  work in
                  > a dehydrated state can lead to serious consequences, including heat
                  > stroke, muscle breakdown, and kidney failure.
                  >


                • bbfires
                  See my reply on the discussion group:
                  Message 8 of 13 , Jul 1, 2008
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                    See my reply on the discussion group:
                    <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SoCalFire-Discussion/?yguid=220415714>


                    --- In SoCalFire@yahoogroups.com, "denrob123" <denrob@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > As a ski patroller we use one of the mountaineer's creeds to guide
                    > us in proper hydration, especially when we're in the backcountry:
                    >
                    > urine should be "clear and copious"
                    >
                    > This "clear and copious" reminder is a readily-apparent guide to
                    > knowing if you're properly hydrated. It's much easier to stay ahead
                    > of proper hydration rather than try to catch up when hydration
                    > levels have dropped. Water is the best hydrator but sports drinks
                    > with electrolyte replacements are good supplements as well,
                    > especially when followed with water. We've also seen good results
                    > with sports drinks that contain proteins to sustain energy,
                    > especially in particularly hot or cold conditions that can tax the
                    > body. The notes below on proper nutrition really help with proper
                    > hydration more than most realize. Caffine really works against
                    > proper hydration.
                    >
                    > Dennis Robertson
                    > Snow Valley Mountain Patrol
                    >
                  • Kim Noyes
                    Well, maybe this summer the Forest Circus is going to kill some more of their own again due to institutional arrogance and stupidity. Am I being too
                    Message 9 of 13 , Jul 2, 2008
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                      Well, maybe this summer the Forest Circus is going to kill some more of their own again due to institutional arrogance and stupidity. Am I being too judgemental?
                      Anywho, why should Type-1's look down upon Type-2's? Isn't everybody supposed to be on the same team fighting the same fire?

                      On Mon, Jun 30, 2008 at 7:41 PM, firerx <firerx@...> wrote:


                      Hey John,
                      Please inform our USFS Hot Shot Supervisors of this. While on Div. T
                      cutting major hand line construction project with 3 hot shot crews,
                      the Cal Fire Captains observe sign of heat exuastion, and one of my
                      Captains offer his Gatorade to a sufffering firefighter. His
                      supervisor interjected and refused him to drink it until they came
                      off the mountain. Incidently, he was one of the 6 hot shot cremembers
                      flown out from Division "T" with heat exuastion. Someone need to
                      advise the supers there no need to push the edge of the envelop with
                      peoples live. I still see that same dumb ass " Can-Do" attitude that
                      killed 14 on Storm King Mountian in today's Hot shot Crews. Problem
                      is they still cut crappy finish line, And I refuse to clean up after
                      the so called "elite" hot shots that still look down on Cal Fire
                      crews as type #2's.





                      --
                      Check out http://groups.yahoo.com/group/californiadisasters/
                      Check out my blog at http://eclecticarcania.blogspot.com/
                      Check out my online scanner feed: http://scanner.alecwasserman.com/cencoastscanner.m3u
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