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Things customers should know about SGC !

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  • p_vdk
    Hi everyone. Some time ago I posted the problem about my SG-211 that failed after 12 weeks of operation. (with 12 weeks I mean several hours of work since it
    Message 1 of 7 , Sep 6, 2006
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      Hi everyone.

      Some time ago I posted the problem about my SG-211 that failed after
      12 weeks of operation. (with 12 weeks I mean several hours of work
      since it indicates only the period between purchase and failure).

      I contacted the dealer in Europe where I purchased the item on the
      10th of june 2006. They had a 3 week holyday so therfore I contacted
      SGC directly in the US.

      first the people where very friendly and helpfull, trying to figure
      out on the phone what could have gone wrong. After two calls and a
      mail message from SGC technical support they suggested to contact the
      dealer (WIMO in Germany) because they prognoses was a diode failure in
      the RF sensing circuit.

      Two days later I receive an email from SGC that they did further
      investigation on my ticket and they warned me about the history of my
      coupler. Regarding their database the coupler was purchased from their
      company already in january 2005 and was already in for repair in
      november of that same year. So their email told me that if the tuner
      would be sent in for repair a 55 dollar fee would be charged for
      looking into the problem and extra money was charged for repairs and
      further transport.

      I was shocked. First, my coupler was only 12 weeks old, next it was a
      warranty case for sure. what was going on ?

      The first moment WIMO opened their doors after a holiday break, I
      called them with the rather disturbing news. They also checked their
      database and confirmed me that WIMO themselves purchased my coupler
      with that serial number only in MAY 2006. I then boght it from them a
      month later. Wimo also told me that they bought it from SGC as a new
      one but because they are a European repair point for SGC they knew
      that sometimes items go back to the US and if repaired they will be
      SOLD AGAIN AS NEW on the market.

      Now: first, this is a discuting politics. I can not understand that a
      company will sell already used, faulted and repaired equipment as new
      on the market again, this is just not done.

      Second: if they do it, they even not take care of putting a new serial
      number on the coupler so that their database is up to date.

      When I contacted SGC with all this info and asked for a explaination,
      there was nobody availble to talk to me, and after two emails, there
      is no reaction. They just don't know how to adress this issue.

      So imho the info provided by WIMO is the truth. SGC does repair and
      resell used equiment as new on the market. Their way of handling is
      unacceptable and even more the lack of covering it with using new
      serial numbers is even more stunning.

      This is the only reason why things like I encountered could even
      happen. The suppid fact that a employee from SGC had the nerve to
      contact me and tell me that my info was wrong and my tuner was older
      than the warranty covers has rolled the ball.

      This is what can happen if you don't cover your stories right.
      Anyhow, I thought every SGC custumor should be warned about this
      politics.

      I lost my faight in this US company. I told them that if they would
      not provide me with a decent answer (at the moment I'm even not
      considering some compensation) I would publish my experiences for
      sure. They maybe thinking that I was calling their bluff, no way, I am
      a decent custumor that like to be treatherd with some respect.

      Thanks to WIMO thay took in the coupler free of charges, repaired a
      faulty diode and reshipped the coupler free of charge to my place.
      This company is also notified of the SGC polotics regarding me.

      Okay, my coupler is working again, but SGC, after 3 products, they
      loose a customer for sure, me. And apart form that, they don't deserve
      the credit they had before. Imaging three years ago I posted some
      happy info on their website. I hope they have the guts to remove it.

      Regards
      ON4VP
    • David H Hatch
      Hi PHILIPPE-ON4VP, Dave-N9ZRT here. SGC does not have any official reps on this list or company personnel answering questions to this group. I might be as
      Message 2 of 7 , Sep 6, 2006
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        Hi PHILIPPE-ON4VP,

         

        Dave-N9ZRT here.

         

        SGC does not have any "official reps" on this list or company personnel answering questions to this group. I might be as close as a "rep" comes here, having spent many hours behind SGC tradeshow booths explaining couplers.

         

        I contacted SGC about your message under this subject line. I am just a messenger here, and file this report, echoing what was shared with me on the phone from the factory a few minutes ago:

         

        ·         SGC does not sell reconditioned gear as new.

        ·         Unfortunately, their message of explanation to you was delayed.

        ·         The SG-211 in your hands was once repaired at another dealer and re-stocked as new, then passed on to another dealer, and then sold to you. Thus, the history of the unit, with no fault to the company.

        ·         That is the information as I have it. Should you wish to talk to someone at the factory about this, please contact Terry @ 1-800-259-7331 or Fax: 425-746-6384 or Email: sgc@...

         

         

        Sincerely,

         

        David H. Hatch – N9ZRT

      • David H. Hatch - N9ZRT
        [My second attempt to send this] Hi PHILIPPE-ON4VP, Dave-N9ZRT here. As you may know, SGC does not have any official reps on this list or company personnel
        Message 3 of 7 , Sep 6, 2006
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          [My second attempt to send this]

          Hi PHILIPPE-ON4VP,

          Dave-N9ZRT here.

          As you may know, SGC does not have any "official reps" on this list or
          company personnel answering questions to this group. I might be as
          close as a "rep" comes here, having spent many hours behind SGC
          tradeshow booths explaining couplers.

          I contacted SGC about your message under this subject line. I am just
          a messenger here, and file this report, echoing what was shared with
          me on the phone from the factory a few minutes ago:

          · SGC does not sell reconditioned gear as new.

          · Unfortunately, their message of explanation to you was delayed.

          · The SG-211 in your hands was once repaired at another dealer
          and re-stocked as new, then passed on to another dealer, and then sold
          to you. Thus, the history of the unit, with no fault to the company.

          · That is the information as I have it. Should you wish to
          talk to someone at the factory about this, please contact Terry @
          1-800-259-7331 or Fax: 425-746-6384 or Email: sgc@...


          Sincerely,

          David H. Hatch – N9ZRT
        • p_vdk
          Hi Dave, Thanks for all the efforts. The stories really are different. That s the same SGC tried to sell me the first time. But I have the proof that the
          Message 4 of 7 , Sep 6, 2006
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            Hi Dave,

            Thanks for all the efforts.

            The stories really are different. That's the same SGC tried to sell
            me the first time. But I have the proof that the coupler was
            purchased at the factory in my hands. Therefore I'm not going for
            their story.

            I understand that the company don't like to admit it and find
            a 'paper' solution to explain. Never mind, for me things are clear
            enough. I just shared my experience, it doesn't mean all custumers
            have similar. I owned 3 products from SGC and never complained
            before, even had nice report on their website.

            But be honest with me, why now their respons is delayed, two times
            nobody was availble to answer me and it takes more than a week to
            send a reply after I sended two mails. Before they had a rep on the
            phone right away for any question, they answered all mails within 12
            hours ... don't tell me that this means nothing.

            Nevertheless, my coupler is working again, thanks to the dealer and
            that counts for me. The rest of the story is something I like to
            share as info, not as war-mail.

            Enjoy your day and 73
            Phil


            --- In Smartuners@yahoogroups.com, "David H. Hatch - N9ZRT"
            <n9zrt@...> wrote:
            >
            > [My second attempt to send this]
            >
            > Hi PHILIPPE-ON4VP,
            >
            > Dave-N9ZRT here.
            >
            > As you may know, SGC does not have any "official reps" on this
            list or
            > company personnel answering questions to this group. I might be as
            > close as a "rep" comes here, having spent many hours behind SGC
            > tradeshow booths explaining couplers.
            >
            > I contacted SGC about your message under this subject line. I am
            just
            > a messenger here, and file this report, echoing what was shared
            with
            > me on the phone from the factory a few minutes ago:
            >
            > · SGC does not sell reconditioned gear as new.
            >
            > · Unfortunately, their message of explanation to you was
            delayed.
            >
            > · The SG-211 in your hands was once repaired at another
            dealer
            > and re-stocked as new, then passed on to another dealer, and then
            sold
            > to you. Thus, the history of the unit, with no fault to the
            company.
            >
            > · That is the information as I have it. Should you wish to
            > talk to someone at the factory about this, please contact Terry @
            > 1-800-259-7331 or Fax: 425-746-6384 or Email: sgc@...
            >
            >
            > Sincerely,
            >
            > David H. Hatch – N9ZRT
            >
          • Randy Charles Ford
            Phil, This is just speculation. I m looking at buying an SGC-237 soon, but I haven t had any dealings with SGC yet. ... SGC s comment passed on to another
            Message 5 of 7 , Sep 7, 2006
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              Phil,

              This is just speculation. I'm looking at buying an SGC-237 soon, but I
              haven't had any dealings with SGC yet.

              > The stories really are different. That's the same SGC tried to sell
              > me the first time. But I have the proof that the coupler was
              > purchased at the factory in my hands. Therefore I'm not going for
              > their story.
              >

              SGC's comment "passed on to another dealer" doesn't exclude the
              possibility that it was returned to SGC as new and sent to another
              dealer by them.

              > But be honest with me, why now their respons is delayed, two times
              > nobody was availble to answer me and it takes more than a week to
              > send a reply after I sended two mails. Before they had a rep on the
              > phone right away for any question, they answered all mails within 12
              > hours ... don't tell me that this means nothing.

              Generally, if one is caught doing something dishonest, their first
              response is to lie. They could have responded quickly with "I typed in
              the wrong serial number: your's really is new." The delay may be
              because they really didn't know how it could have happened and took the
              times to trace the history of the item, including talking to the
              original dealer. (If the original dealer messed up, they may also have
              taken a while to investigate before admitting to the problem.)

              73
              Randy KG4JIX
              --
              "Geek" is muggle-speak for "techno-wizard"
            • Terry Dettmann
              Philippe, David, Randy ... And everyone I can t speak officially for SGC any more since I haven t worked there in nearly two years. I don t know the facts of
              Message 6 of 7 , Sep 7, 2006
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                Philippe, David, Randy ... And everyone

                I can't speak officially for SGC any more since I haven't worked there in
                nearly two years. I don't know the facts of the situation Philippe has
                brought up. David has obviously contacted the company directly and gotten
                feedback which he passed on. What I can do is share some thoughts about the
                people I worked with and the culture at SGC as well as some thoughts about
                issues I haven't seen mentioned. I also worked with people at WIMO on
                several occasions, so I've some insight there as well.

                First ... Let me point out that from my reading of Philippe's original post,
                it was SGC that provided the history of the unit he had. I learned directly
                from one of the founders, Pierre Goral, and I was a friend with the other,
                Don Stoner. A shared part of their character was to tell the truth which it
                seems SGC has done. They told you about the history of the unit as a
                followup on your original inquiry. They didn't hide the fact that the unit
                was older than you thought. They didn't make any attempt to cover up the
                situation. They told you what happened. If there had been an attempt to hide
                the manufacturing history I'd have expected at the very least that there
                would be a new serial number. As I read the original post, it seems that SGC
                continued to followup on the original request for information since Philippe
                mentions that the report from SGC was two days after his initial inquiry.
                They didn't HAVE to put in the extra effort, but they did it anyway.

                Second ... I don't know the specifics about the 'new' designation of the
                unit. I don't know who passed it to whom as new or why, but I'm sure that
                whenever it was in SGC's hands, it was tested and met all the same
                requirements as a unit directly off the original production line. Any unit
                that is returned to the factory ALWAYS is retested and passes all relevant
                tests. If the unit was sent by the dealer for repair, which it probably was
                because most European users don't send them back directly, then SGC returned
                it exactly as it was. They didn't change the serial number or anything. At
                least while I was there, no attempt would have been made to hide the fact
                that the unit was used. I think you said that WIMO's records show that it
                was shipped to them from SGC, but what confuses me is that if the unit was
                returned to SGC for repair in February, then they would have returned it to
                the original dealer as soon as it was ready. It wouldn't have gone back into
                stock at SGC, but I'm guessing because I wasn't there at that time and
                couldn't say what happened on that unit.

                Third ... Some units get hung up on dealer's shelves for extended periods of
                time. It sounds to me like SGC shipped the unit in early 2005 and that
                started the warranty clock ticking when it was registered by its first user.
                How the unit got to WIMO in 2006 as a new unit just isn't clear to me. I
                don't believe that SGC would have hidden the status of the unit, certainly
                they didn't from you. Their turnover at the factory is high enough that if
                the unit had been returned, it wouldn't have sat in inventory until 2006 in
                any case. It was policy while I was there that ANY unit shipped as new had
                the full warranty, so if they shipped it to WIMO as new, it would have been
                under warranty. I don't know why it seems that WIMO records it as new, but
                SGC records it as old.

                As I said, I'm not working at SGC now and anything I say is not an official
                reflection of SGC's policies or procedures. Somewhere along the line,
                something went wrong. SGC didn't hide the fact that it was older than you
                thought. I don't know of any reason SGC would have to hold a unit
                manufactured in early 2005, sell it, take it back, and ship it out again in
                mid-2006. The demand was high enough for SG-211s that there was a backlog
                when I left. There just wouldn't have been an opportunity for the unit to
                sit there. SGC saying that the warranty is up is based on the original sale
                of the SG-211 to whomever it was sold to.

                I would have expected WIMO to honor the warranty on the unit if they sold it
                as new but got it as a refurbished unit. It sounds like there is some
                disagreement over the status of the unit between WIMO and SGC. I can't speak
                to that. It sounds like a misunderstanding somewhere along the line. Where
                the responsibility lies isn't clear. I don't know that it will ever be
                possible to sort it out. Everyone I know at SGC and WIMO are people I like.
                All of them work hard trying to create and deliver good products. You got
                caught in the middle of a dispute about a warranty. SGC has been up front
                about the status of the unit, they haven't hidden anything from you. I would
                have expected WIMO to handle the problem without ever bringing SGC into it
                as the European repair point.

                I'm sorry you've had your trust shaken Philippe. I don't know why the
                situation developed as it did or why the unit you had was labeled NEW when
                it was in fact previously owned. It might be as simple as a mistake
                somewhere along the line that got the unit into the wrong place at the wrong
                time. I'm guessing at best. I do know the people and trust them to be honest
                about what happened.

                Terry
                WX7S
              • David H Hatch
                Good post on this topic, Terry. Thanks for your input! Dave
                Message 7 of 7 , Sep 7, 2006
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                  Good post on this topic, Terry.

                  Thanks for your input!

                  Dave
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