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Extreme Noise in SGC-239 JR-G5RV setup

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  • mariosfotiou
    Hi All, My name is Marios (5B8BE) and I have recently installed a home brew JR(half size) G5RV that I feed with open wire to my SGC-239. The antenna is hanging
    Message 1 of 11 , Dec 3, 2012
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      Hi All,

      My name is Marios (5B8BE) and I have recently installed a home brew JR(half size) G5RV that I feed with open wire to my SGC-239. The antenna is hanging from a 6m steel pole that stands on the flat roof of my two-storey house about 10m from the ground level. The antenna is set as an inverted V with angle higher than 120 degrees. The open wire feed line is hanging from the feed-point to a plastic weather proof box that contains the coupler a bit of angle to a position about 1m from the room on the roof protective wall. My house is build from cement, bricks and iron as we usually do in this part of the world. The coupler is fed by a small wall mounted power supply from a mains plug near by.

      Although I get acceptable tuning performance 10m-40m I cannot really work with this antenna as the noise level is a S7 to S9+20 on all bands. The noise becomes so high only after tuning to that frequency. Before tuning is either 0 or up to S5. When the coupler is reset it is about S5 to S7. When the coupler is off noise drops to S0-S3.

      The above behaviour is more or less the same on all bands(more on low). I do not hear anything specific just my noise floor goes up and receiver goes "crazy" making most of signals unreadable.

      I have seen this behaviour in other antennas I built recently at the same location, including vertical wire with random length radials and inverted v, center fed by the tuner.

      Does anyone has any ideas or maybe a troubleshooting plan to isolate the source of interference that is raising the noise floor in the receiver.

      My radio is a Yaesu FT-847 and is located at the second floor. I have no problems with RF in the shack.

      Many thanks in advance.

      73 from Cyprus de 5B8BE
    • Phillip
      Hello Marios, I wouldn t necessarily blame the tuner, When the tuner is on and the antenna tuned, the antenna gain is at optimum and anything the antenna picks
      Message 2 of 11 , Dec 3, 2012
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        Hello Marios,

        I wouldn't necessarily blame the tuner, When the tuner is on and the antenna tuned, the antenna gain is at optimum and anything the antenna picks up, including the noise, is strongest. When the tuner is off, all the inductance is shunted across the input, so any signals are significantly reduced.

        You will need to look for noise sources in your own house or in your neighborhood. I live in a very noisy area. The better the received signal level from the antenna, the greater the noise. You may want to try a separate receiving antenna, like a loop.

        73,

        Phil N3ZP



        --- In Smartuners@yahoogroups.com, "mariosfotiou" <mfotiou@...> wrote:
        >
        > Hi All,
        >
        > My name is Marios (5B8BE) and I have recently installed a home brew JR(half size) G5RV that I feed with open wire to my SGC-239. The antenna is hanging from a 6m steel pole that stands on the flat roof of my two-storey house about 10m from the ground level. The antenna is set as an inverted V with angle higher than 120 degrees. The open wire feed line is hanging from the feed-point to a plastic weather proof box that contains the coupler a bit of angle to a position about 1m from the room on the roof protective wall. My house is build from cement, bricks and iron as we usually do in this part of the world. The coupler is fed by a small wall mounted power supply from a mains plug near by.
        >
        > Although I get acceptable tuning performance 10m-40m I cannot really work with this antenna as the noise level is a S7 to S9+20 on all bands. The noise becomes so high only after tuning to that frequency. Before tuning is either 0 or up to S5. When the coupler is reset it is about S5 to S7. When the coupler is off noise drops to S0-S3.
        >
        > The above behaviour is more or less the same on all bands(more on low). I do not hear anything specific just my noise floor goes up and receiver goes "crazy" making most of signals unreadable.
        >
        > I have seen this behaviour in other antennas I built recently at the same location, including vertical wire with random length radials and inverted v, center fed by the tuner.
        >
        > Does anyone has any ideas or maybe a troubleshooting plan to isolate the source of interference that is raising the noise floor in the receiver.
        >
        > My radio is a Yaesu FT-847 and is located at the second floor. I have no problems with RF in the shack.
        >
        > Many thanks in advance.
        >
        > 73 from Cyprus de 5B8BE
        >
      • Guy Boucher
        Hello Marios, My noise level is also high, and I do not believe there is anything I can do. I am downtown,in my radio shop,and some days I can receive, and
        Message 3 of 11 , Dec 3, 2012
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          Hello Marios,
          My noise level is also high, and I do not believe there is anything I can do.  I am downtown,in my radio shop,and some days I can receive, and most days not. If I would move to the boonies, the noise level would be less, but, these days everyone has a high signal to noise ratio. Jut wait, it will get better, or worse. bye 73 Guy Albert,Wisconsin , USA.



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        • astro_maryland
          Hi Marios, It looks like that you are located right in the middle of the city of Limassol so the noise that you are experiencing is called background noise or
          Message 4 of 11 , Dec 3, 2012
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            Hi Marios,

            It looks like that you are located right in the middle of the city of Limassol so the noise that you are experiencing is called background noise or ambient noise and background noise is a form of noise pollution or interference. The noise may be common to your QTH coming from industry, TV sets, WiFi equipment, appliances, any number of things. The vast majority of city dwellers are confronted by noise pollution.

            I recommend that you read up on detecting and lessening the effects of noise pollution. One can install certain 'filters' (RFI suppressors) that often help. Some city ops use magnetic loop receive antennas to cope with severe noise.

            The tuner is probably working fine.

            GL, 73, Rich, K3VAT


            --- In Smartuners@yahoogroups.com, "mariosfotiou" <mfotiou@...> wrote:
            >
            > Hi All,
            >
            > My name is Marios (5B8BE) and I have recently installed a home brew JR(half size) G5RV that I feed with open wire to my SGC-239. The antenna is hanging from a 6m steel pole that stands on the flat roof of my two-storey house about 10m from the ground level. The antenna is set as an inverted V with angle higher than 120 degrees. The open wire feed line is hanging from the feed-point to a plastic weather proof box that contains the coupler a bit of angle to a position about 1m from the room on the roof protective wall. My house is build from cement, bricks and iron as we usually do in this part of the world. The coupler is fed by a small wall mounted power supply from a mains plug near by.
            >
            > Although I get acceptable tuning performance 10m-40m I cannot really work with this antenna as the noise level is a S7 to S9+20 on all bands. The noise becomes so high only after tuning to that frequency. Before tuning is either 0 or up to S5. When the coupler is reset it is about S5 to S7. When the coupler is off noise drops to S0-S3.
            >
            > The above behaviour is more or less the same on all bands(more on low). I do not hear anything specific just my noise floor goes up and receiver goes "crazy" making most of signals unreadable.
            >
            > I have seen this behaviour in other antennas I built recently at the same location, including vertical wire with random length radials and inverted v, center fed by the tuner.
            >
            > Does anyone has any ideas or maybe a troubleshooting plan to isolate the source of interference that is raising the noise floor in the receiver.
            >
            > My radio is a Yaesu FT-847 and is located at the second floor. I have no problems with RF in the shack.
            >
            > Many thanks in advance.
            >
            > 73 from Cyprus de 5B8BE
            >
          • Philip
            Another thought Marios, How do you power the SG-239? If not a well filtered power source the noise could be from the power source. Some have tried to power
            Message 5 of 11 , Dec 3, 2012
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              Another thought Marios,

              How do you power the SG-239?  If not a well filtered power source the noise could be from the power source.  Some have tried to power with a “wall wart.”  Not a good idea as most of not all of those provide unfiltered saw tooth DC.

               

              Just a thought, 73, DE K4PO

               

               

            • Bill Nopic
              Mario, I use an SGC-239 on my loop in the attic. I experience the same, almost exact conditions as you. Here is what I found to be the cause in my case. 1. My
              Message 6 of 11 , Dec 3, 2012
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                Mario,
                I use an SGC-239 on my loop in the attic. I experience the same, almost exact conditions as you.
                Here is what I found to be the cause in my case.
                1. My burglar alarm(wired system). Massive noise in the low bands with S9+.
                2. My computer network router WALL WART.
                3. My interface cable between my computer and my FT-857.
                4. My SLING a.c. wiring network adapter.

                I made these discoveries by turning off AC breakers one at a time. And then individual pieces of electronics. I also ran my radio, tuner and all peripherals off of a 12VDC battery as a test. On battery, with my main circuit breaker off, proved that all my noise was coming from within my QTH. Just a matter of troubleshooting by elimination.

                Good Luck
                73
                Bill
                N2VIL


                From: mariosfotiou <mfotiou@...>
                To: Smartuners@yahoogroups.com
                Sent: Monday, December 3, 2012 3:30 AM
                Subject: [Smartuners] Extreme Noise in SGC-239 JR-G5RV setup

                 
                Hi All,

                My name is Marios (5B8BE) and I have recently installed a home brew JR(half size) G5RV that I feed with open wire to my SGC-239. The antenna is hanging from a 6m steel pole that stands on the flat roof of my two-storey house about 10m from the ground level. The antenna is set as an inverted V with angle higher than 120 degrees. The open wire feed line is hanging from the feed-point to a plastic weather proof box that contains the coupler a bit of angle to a position about 1m from the room on the roof protective wall. My house is build from cement, bricks and iron as we usually do in this part of the world. The coupler is fed by a small wall mounted power supply from a mains plug near by.

                Although I get acceptable tuning performance 10m-40m I cannot really work with this antenna as the noise level is a S7 to S9+20 on all bands. The noise becomes so high only after tuning to that frequency. Before tuning is either 0 or up to S5. When the coupler is reset it is about S5 to S7. When the coupler is off noise drops to S0-S3.

                The above behaviour is more or less the same on all bands(more on low). I do not hear anything specific just my noise floor goes up and receiver goes "crazy" making most of signals unreadable.

                I have seen this behaviour in other antennas I built recently at the same location, including vertical wire with random length radials and inverted v, center fed by the tuner.

                Does anyone has any ideas or maybe a troubleshooting plan to isolate the source of interference that is raising the noise floor in the receiver.

                My radio is a Yaesu FT-847 and is located at the second floor. I have no problems with RF in the shack.

                Many thanks in advance.

                73 from Cyprus de 5B8BE



              • Μάριος Φωτίου
                Hi guys, Thanks for the answers. I am in an almost rural area just at the outskirts of town. The closest neighbour is across the road at 20-30m. You can check
                Message 7 of 11 , Dec 3, 2012
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                  Hi guys,

                  Thanks for the answers. I am in an almost rural area just at the outskirts of town. The closest neighbour is across the road at 20-30m. You can check my location in APRS http://aprs.fi/#!mt=hybrid&z=11&call=a%2F5B8BE&timerange=259200 .

                  What I found starnge that yesterday afternoon when I went home (it was raining) I switched on the station only to find out that the noise levels were substantially lower (about S2-S3 on 20m when the night before it was S5-S7). 20m was open with loads of stations and I made a couple of QSOs with good reports. I tried switching on a few things in the house including LED lights on dimmers, Plasma TV etc. but I saw no difference at the noise levels.

                  I do power from a wall wart but as proven already this is not a problem. 

                  So I waited until nightfall and the noise came back. Not as bad as other times but still too high to be QRN (S7 noise on 20m at 23:00 is not natural). I now have a suspicion that one of the street lights that is next to my house that is broken (is not flickering but remains unlit while all the others come up) may be the source of the noise as it is so wide band and so evident in the low bands I am convinced it is some kind of electrical fault. I will call the electricity company to come and change the bulb and fix it, they have to anyway.

                  Just to double check I switched on the radio before going to work today and 20m had S2 of noise. So my theory for now is that the noise is consistent to come up at night. I will try to time my observations with the street lights coming on

                  73 de 5B8BE


                  On Tue, Dec 4, 2012 at 7:45 AM, Bill Nopic <billnopic@...> wrote:
                   

                  Mario,
                  I use an SGC-239 on my loop in the attic. I experience the same, almost exact conditions as you.
                  Here is what I found to be the cause in my case.
                  1. My burglar alarm(wired system). Massive noise in the low bands with S9+.
                  2. My computer network router WALL WART.
                  3. My interface cable between my computer and my FT-857.
                  4. My SLING a.c. wiring network adapter.

                  I made these discoveries by turning off AC breakers one at a time. And then individual pieces of electronics. I also ran my radio, tuner and all peripherals off of a 12VDC battery as a test. On battery, with my main circuit breaker off, proved that all my noise was coming from within my QTH. Just a matter of troubleshooting by elimination.

                  Good Luck
                  73
                  Bill
                  N2VIL


                  From: mariosfotiou <mfotiou@...>
                  To: Smartuners@yahoogroups.com
                  Sent: Monday, December 3, 2012 3:30 AM
                  Subject: [Smartuners] Extreme Noise in SGC-239 JR-G5RV setup

                   
                  Hi All,

                  My name is Marios (5B8BE) and I have recently installed a home brew JR(half size) G5RV that I feed with open wire to my SGC-239. The antenna is hanging from a 6m steel pole that stands on the flat roof of my two-storey house about 10m from the ground level. The antenna is set as an inverted V with angle higher than 120 degrees. The open wire feed line is hanging from the feed-point to a plastic weather proof box that contains the coupler a bit of angle to a position about 1m from the room on the roof protective wall. My house is build from cement, bricks and iron as we usually do in this part of the world. The coupler is fed by a small wall mounted power supply from a mains plug near by.

                  Although I get acceptable tuning performance 10m-40m I cannot really work with this antenna as the noise level is a S7 to S9+20 on all bands. The noise becomes so high only after tuning to that frequency. Before tuning is either 0 or up to S5. When the coupler is reset it is about S5 to S7. When the coupler is off noise drops to S0-S3.

                  The above behaviour is more or less the same on all bands(more on low). I do not hear anything specific just my noise floor goes up and receiver goes "crazy" making most of signals unreadable.

                  I have seen this behaviour in other antennas I built recently at the same location, including vertical wire with random length radials and inverted v, center fed by the tuner.

                  Does anyone has any ideas or maybe a troubleshooting plan to isolate the source of interference that is raising the noise floor in the receiver.

                  My radio is a Yaesu FT-847 and is located at the second floor. I have no problems with RF in the shack.

                  Many thanks in advance.

                  73 from Cyprus de 5B8BE




                • Tim Armagost
                  You mention you have a plasma TV - they are very noisy, to the point that I was unable to use my ham station. I returned the TV after a couple weeks so that I
                  Message 8 of 11 , Dec 4, 2012
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                    You mention you have a plasma TV - they are very noisy, to the point that I was unable to use my ham station.  I returned the TV after a couple weeks so that I could get back on the air.  They make so much noise I wonder how they got type accepted...I would suggest you look at the TV somewhat closer.
                     
                    73!
                     
                    Tim, WBØTUB
                     
                     
                    ----- Original Message -----
                    Sent: Tuesday, December 04, 2012 12:09 AM
                    Subject: Re: [Smartuners] Extreme Noise in SGC-239 JR-G5RV setup

                     

                    Hi guys,


                    Thanks for the answers. I am in an almost rural area just at the outskirts of town. The closest neighbour is across the road at 20-30m. You can check my location in APRS http://aprs.fi/#!mt=hybrid&z=11&call=a%2F5B8BE&timerange=259200 .

                    What I found starnge that yesterday afternoon when I went home (it was raining) I switched on the station only to find out that the noise levels were substantially lower (about S2-S3 on 20m when the night before it was S5-S7). 20m was open with loads of stations and I made a couple of QSOs with good reports. I tried switching on a few things in the house including LED lights on dimmers, Plasma TV etc. but I saw no difference at the noise levels.

                    I do power from a wall wart but as proven already this is not a problem. 

                    So I waited until nightfall and the noise came back. Not as bad as other times but still too high to be QRN (S7 noise on 20m at 23:00 is not natural). I now have a suspicion that one of the street lights that is next to my house that is broken (is not flickering but remains unlit while all the others come up) may be the source of the noise as it is so wide band and so evident in the low bands I am convinced it is some kind of electrical fault. I will call the electricity company to come and change the bulb and fix it, they have to anyway.

                    Just to double check I switched on the radio before going to work today and 20m had S2 of noise. So my theory for now is that the noise is consistent to come up at night. I will try to time my observations with the street lights coming on

                    73 de 5B8BE


                    On Tue, Dec 4, 2012 at 7:45 AM, Bill Nopic <billnopic@...> wrote:
                     

                    Mario,
                    I use an SGC-239 on my loop in the attic. I experience the same, almost exact conditions as you.
                    Here is what I found to be the cause in my case.
                    1. My burglar alarm(wired system). Massive noise in the low bands with S9+.
                    2. My computer network router WALL WART.
                    3. My interface cable between my computer and my FT-857.
                    4. My SLING a.c. wiring network adapter.

                    I made these discoveries by turning off AC breakers one at a time. And then individual pieces of electronics. I also ran my radio, tuner and all peripherals off of a 12VDC battery as a test. On battery, with my main circuit breaker off, proved that all my noise was coming from within my QTH. Just a matter of troubleshooting by elimination.

                    Good Luck
                    73
                    Bill
                    N2VIL


                    From: mariosfotiou <mfotiou@...>
                    To: Smartuners@yahoogroups.com
                    Sent: Monday, December 3, 2012 3:30 AM
                    Subject: [Smartuners] Extreme Noise in SGC-239 JR-G5RV setup

                     
                    Hi All,

                    My name is Marios (5B8BE) and I have recently installed a home brew JR(half size) G5RV that I feed with open wire to my SGC-239. The antenna is hanging from a 6m steel pole that stands on the flat roof of my two-storey house about 10m from the ground level. The antenna is set as an inverted V with angle higher than 120 degrees. The open wire feed line is hanging from the feed-point to a plastic weather proof box that contains the coupler a bit of angle to a position about 1m from the room on the roof protective wall. My house is build from cement, bricks and iron as we usually do in this part of the world. The coupler is fed by a small wall mounted power supply from a mains plug near by.

                    Although I get acceptable tuning performance 10m-40m I cannot really work with this antenna as the noise level is a S7 to S9+20 on all bands. The noise becomes so high only after tuning to that frequency. Before tuning is either 0 or up to S5. When the coupler is reset it is about S5 to S7. When the coupler is off noise drops to S0-S3.

                    The above behaviour is more or less the same on all bands(more on low). I do not hear anything specific just my noise floor goes up and receiver goes "crazy" making most of signals unreadable.

                    I have seen this behaviour in other antennas I built recently at the same location, including vertical wire with random length radials and inverted v, center fed by the tuner.

                    Does anyone has any ideas or maybe a troubleshooting plan to isolate the source of interference that is raising the noise floor in the receiver.

                    My radio is a Yaesu FT-847 and is located at the second floor. I have no problems with RF in the shack.

                    Many thanks in advance.

                    73 from Cyprus de 5B8BE




                  • Reg Genola
                    I agree with Tim, My neighbors Plasma TV is the culprit. I even got the FCC to come check and they were no help. They said the TV complies with Part 15. The
                    Message 9 of 11 , Dec 4, 2012
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                      I agree with Tim, My neighbors Plasma TV is the culprit. I even got the FCC to come check and they were no help. They said the TV complies with Part 15. The problem is Part 15 is poorly written. I'm selling my house and moving !!
                       
                      73, Reg,  W3REG
                    • Μάριος Φωτίου
                      Hi all, I ve done a bit more searching yesterday and my TV is not the cause of the interference. The weird thing is that the interference is not always there
                      Message 10 of 11 , Dec 4, 2012
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                        Hi all,
                         
                        I ve done a bit more searching yesterday and my TV is not the cause of the interference. The weird thing is that the interference is not always there and it does not seem to be coming from my house. I was hoping that my area beeing so scarcely built would have been very RF quiet but it seems it isn't. I connected a cable yesterday direcly on the radio's antenna port and I was getting about S5 to S7 noise on 40m pulsating on AM. So it must be something local. Maybe one of the neighbours is using a PLT device of some sort. I will call the dept of electronic communications to see if they can do a survey in the neighborghood.
                         
                        Thanks guys for all your help.
                         
                        73 de Marios (5B8BE)


                        On Tue, Dec 4, 2012 at 8:33 PM, Reg Genola <rgenola@...> wrote:
                         

                        I agree with Tim, My neighbors Plasma TV is the culprit. I even got the FCC to come check and they were no help. They said the TV complies with Part 15. The problem is Part 15 is poorly written. I'm selling my house and moving !!
                         
                        73, Reg,  W3REG


                      • france0308@yahoo.com
                        Hi Marios, Do you have overhead power lines in our your area: Medium voltage rural distribution (11, 22 or 33KV) or High Tension distribution (132,220, 440
                        Message 11 of 11 , Dec 18, 2012
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                          Hi Marios,

                          Do you have overhead power lines in our your area: Medium voltage rural distribution (11, 22 or 33KV) or High Tension distribution (132,220, 440 KV etc)?

                          Medium voltage lines, and more especially High Tension overhead lines, are notorious for arc-over on insulators from dust accumulation or defects in the insulators. These drawn out arcs that generate very high levels of wideband HF noise, especially if they are a couple of hundred meters to a kilometer or two away from your station

                          Many utilities in drier parts of the world have teams that spend their time washing insulators on their High Tension distribution network to eliminate such arcing

                          The fact that the noise reduced when you had a rainy day could point to the rain cleaning off the insulators and reducing chances of arcing on one of your local utility poles and you will just need to identify which line support pole is causing the noise so that the utility can clean or replace the insulator. Here are some resources from the ARRL and is specific to the US but you might be able to adapt it to identifying whether this is the source of your problem:

                          http://www.arrl.org/power-line-noise-faq-page

                          http://www.arrl.org/power-line-noise


                          Hope that this helps in a small way

                          73

                          -France K6QO/ZS6GO-




                          --- In Smartuners@yahoogroups.com, ÌÜñéïò Öùôßïõ wrote:

                          Hi all,

                          I ve done a bit more searching yesterday and my TV is not the cause of the
                          interference. The weird thing is that the interference is not always there
                          and it does not seem to be coming from my house. I was hoping that my area
                          beeing so scarcely built would have been very RF quiet but it seems it
                          isn't. I connected a cable yesterday direcly on the radio's antenna port
                          and I was getting about S5 to S7 noise on 40m pulsating on AM. So it must
                          be something local. Maybe one of the neighbours is using a PLT device of
                          some sort. I will call the dept of electronic communications to see if they
                          can do a survey in the neighborghood.

                          Thanks guys for all your help.

                          73 de Marios (5B8BE)


                          On Tue, Dec 4, 2012 at 8:33 PM, Reg Genola wrote:

                          **


                          **
                          I agree with Tim, My neighbors Plasma TV is the culprit. I even got the
                          FCC to come check and they were no help. They said the TV complies with
                          Part 15. The problem is Part 15 is poorly written. I'm selling my house and
                          moving !!

                          73, Reg, W3REG
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