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Re: SG 235 - Below is an e-mail I sent to SGC I discovered this Group.

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  • tomk3mov
    I am considering the purchase of an SG 235 coupler, but would like a little more information before parting with over a kilobuck. My setup is this: An Icom
    Message 1 of 5 , Nov 1, 2010
      I am considering the purchase of an SG 235 coupler, but would like a little more information before parting with over a kilobuck.
       
      My setup is this:  An Icom 756 PROIII, an Ameritron ALS 600 Solid State Amplifier and an MFJ 998 Auto Tuner in the shack.
       
      My antennas are a Zerofive 43 ft. non-resonant vertical, ground mounted with 40 forty five foot radials extending from a DX Engineering Plate; a Hy Gain AV-640 Vertical Antenna about 15 ft. above the ground; and a G5RV about 35 ft. above the ground.  I have had all of these antennas for several years and am generally satisfied with them, but as we hams are wont to do, I am considering a change.
       
      I am not supposed to have any antennas in my development.  It is only because my neighbor directly behind me is the only one who can see them, and they don't bother him in the least, that I am able to have this small antenna farm.  However, I may be pushing my luck, and I may need a more efficient antenna system.
       
      As I am sure you know, there are only two couplers that can handle 500 watts and be mounted safely at the base of the antenna: your SG 235 and the Chinese CG 5000.  What I am considering doing is getting rid of the Hy Gain antenna, the G5RV and the MFJ 998.  That would leave me with the Zerofive aluminum stick and the SG 235, which I would buy from you.
       
      I have found very little documented information that is helpful in making this decision.  Even though the e-ham Reviews indicate several hams use your lower power tuners with the 43 ft. antenna with good results, an excerpt from the Zerofive assembly manual states as follows:
       

      ANTENNA TUNER CHOICE

       A good quality antenna should be used with this vertical. Examples are Palstar, Dentron, Ameritron ATR 30. Some SGC remote tuners will not match some bands on this vertical and should be avoided. Most rigs with built in antenna tuners will have no problem with matching this vertical if the radio power only will be used. If your tuner doesn't't match the antenna on a particular band, try adding 10 to 25 feet of coax using a barrel connector and try matching again. 

       

      And thus my dilemma.  I am about spend over $1,000.00 for a coupler that the manufacturer suggests that I not even consider.  Please be kind enough to let me know if you feel the SG 235 will work properly with the ALS 600 / Zerofive combination and whether any changes will be required to the antenna to allow the 235 function properly.

      Thank you for your consideration, 

      Tom Baxter, K3MOV

    • Bryan Johns
      I d be very interested in seeing their response, if they even respond. -- Bryan Johns K4GDW http://www.greendragonweb.com Do not meddle in the affairs of
      Message 2 of 5 , Nov 1, 2010
        I'd be very interested in seeing their response, if they even respond.

        --
        Bryan Johns
        K4GDW
        http://www.greendragonweb.com

        Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup.


        On Mon, Nov 1, 2010 at 11:28 AM, tomk3mov <tomk3mov@...> wrote:


        I am considering the purchase of an SG 235 coupler, but would like a little more information before parting with over a kilobuck.
         
        My setup is this:  An Icom 756 PROIII, an Ameritron ALS 600 Solid State Amplifier and an MFJ 998 Auto Tuner in the shack.
         
        My antennas are a Zerofive 43 ft. non-resonant vertical, ground mounted with 40 forty five foot radials extending from a DX Engineering Plate; a Hy Gain AV-640 Vertical Antenna about 15 ft. above the ground; and a G5RV about 35 ft. above the ground.  I have had all of these antennas for several years and am generally satisfied with them, but as we hams are wont to do, I am considering a change.
         
        I am not supposed to have any antennas in my development.  It is only because my neighbor directly behind me is the only one who can see them, and they don't bother him in the least, that I am able to have this small antenna farm.  However, I may be pushing my luck, and I may need a more efficient antenna system.
         
        As I am sure you know, there are only two couplers that can handle 500 watts and be mounted safely at the base of the antenna: your SG 235 and the Chinese CG 5000.  What I am considering doing is getting rid of the Hy Gain antenna, the G5RV and the MFJ 998.  That would leave me with the Zerofive aluminum stick and the SG 235, which I would buy from you.
         
        I have found very little documented information that is helpful in making this decision.  Even though the e-ham Reviews indicate several hams use your lower power tuners with the 43 ft. antenna with good results, an excerpt from the Zerofive assembly manual states as follows:
         

        ANTENNA TUNER CHOICE

         A good quality antenna should be used with this vertical. Examples are Palstar, Dentron, Ameritron ATR 30. Some SGC remote tuners will not match some bands on this vertical and should be avoided. Most rigs with built in antenna tuners will have no problem with matching this vertical if the radio power only will be used. If your tuner doesn't't match the antenna on a particular band, try adding 10 to 25 feet of coax using a barrel connector and try matching again. 

         

        And thus my dilemma.  I am about spend over $1,000.00 for a coupler that the manufacturer suggests that I not even consider.  Please be kind enough to let me know if you feel the SG 235 will work properly with the ALS 600 / Zerofive combination and whether any changes will be required to the antenna to allow the 235 function properly.

        Thank you for your consideration, 

        Tom Baxter, K3MOV




      • Tom Baxter
        Bryan,   If I recall correctly, I wrote to them several years ago when I was trying to decide whether or not to buy the Zerofive 43 footer.  I can t find it
        Message 3 of 5 , Nov 1, 2010
          Bryan,
           
          If I recall correctly, I wrote to them several years ago when I was trying to decide whether or not to buy the Zerofive 43 footer.  I can't find it now, but I am pretty sure they responded fairly quickly with a personal (not canned) answer.  I'll certainly post their response if I receive one.
           
          73 Tom K3MOV
        • ve3xdb
          Tom, ... Avoid half-wave multiples. Odd quarter wave multiples seem OK (1/4; 3/4; 1 1/4, 1 3/4; etc., seem OK). 1/2 wave = 300/freq MHz x 1/2 wave multiples
          Message 4 of 5 , Nov 13, 2010
            Tom,

            Nice to see this group is still going! In 2003(!) I saved a message posted by Rudy K8SWD, indicating the "magic antenna lengths" for the SGC tuners. I have used his advise, and have found it to be sound. From his message:

            ----------
            "Avoid half-wave multiples. Odd quarter wave multiples seem OK (1/4; 3/4; 1 1/4, 1
            3/4; etc., seem OK).



            1/2 wave = 300/freq MHz x 1/2 wave multiples (in meters)



            Example: 300/29 x .5 (1, 2, 3....) = 5.2 meters; 10.3 meters, 15.5 meters; and
            so on.



            Generally, if you stay with a length of antenna wire that is NOT resonant in any ham band, you are fine. Workable lengths "windows" to use for portable
            deployments are as follows:



            Window (ft) Center ft/m

            23 to 32 28/8.5

            35 to 44 40/12

            52 to 64 58/17.7

            70 to 82 76/23.2

            92 to 98 95/29.1

            105 to 113 113/33.2

            140 to 149 145/44.2"

            ----------

            So your 47' vertical falls outside of the windows outlined by Rudy. It's probably close to a half wave on 30 meters and a full wave on 15 meters, which would probably push the tuner to its limits!

            For several years, I ran a ground mounted 58' inverted L (12' vertical and about 46' sloping up to a height of 18') with a 70' counterpoise and ten 12' radials. This setup tuned nicely on all bands. One option might be to add a few feet of wire to the top of your antenna, tying it off in an L configuration, or using insulated wire and running it back down the side of your vertical and seeing what happens.

            Hope this helps a bit. Good luck!

            Best regards,

            Doug VE3XDB

            --- In Smartuners@yahoogroups.com, "tomk3mov" <tomk3mov@...> wrote:
            >
            > I am considering the purchase of an SG 235 coupler, but would like a
            > little more information before parting with over a kilobuck. My setup
            > is this: An Icom 756 PROIII, an Ameritron ALS 600 Solid State Amplifier
            > and an MFJ 998 Auto Tuner in the shack. My antennas are a Zerofive 43
            > ft. non-resonant vertical, ground mounted with 40 forty five foot
            > radials extending from a DX Engineering Plate; a Hy Gain AV-640 Vertical
            > Antenna about 15 ft. above the ground; and a G5RV about 35 ft. above the
            > ground. I have had all of these antennas for several years and am
            > generally satisfied with them, but as we hams are wont to do, I am
            > considering a change. I am not supposed to have any antennas in my
            > development. It is only because my neighbor directly behind me is the
            > only one who can see them, and they don't bother him in the least, that
            > I am able to have this small antenna farm. However, I may be pushing my
            > luck, and I may need a more efficient antenna system. As I am sure you
            > know, there are only two couplers that can handle 500 watts and be
            > mounted safely at the base of the antenna: your SG 235 and the Chinese
            > CG 5000. What I am considering doing is getting rid of the Hy Gain
            > antenna, the G5RV and the MFJ 998. That would leave me with the
            > Zerofive aluminum stick and the SG 235, which I would buy from you. I
            > have found very little documented information that is helpful in making
            > this decision. Even though the e-ham Reviews indicate several hams use
            > your lower power tuners with the 43 ft. antenna with good results, an
            > excerpt from the Zerofive assembly manual states as follows:
            > ANTENNA TUNER CHOICE
            > A good quality antenna should be used with this vertical. Examples are
            > Palstar, Dentron, Ameritron ATR 30. Some SGC remote tuners will not
            > match some bands on this vertical and should be avoided. Most rigs with
            > built in antenna tuners will have no problem with matching this vertical
            > if the radio power only will be used. If your tuner doesn't't match
            > the antenna on a particular band, try adding 10 to 25 feet of coax using
            > a barrel connector and try matching again.
            >
            >
            > And thus my dilemma. I am about spend over $1,000.00 for a coupler that
            > the manufacturer suggests that I not even consider. Please be kind
            > enough to let me know if you feel the SG 235 will work properly with the
            > ALS 600 / Zerofive combination and whether any changes will be required
            > to the antenna to allow the 235 function properly.
            >
            > Thank you for your consideration,
            > Tom Baxter, K3MOV
            >
          • ve3xdb
            Oops! I misread. Your antenna is 43 . I would bet the tuner would do OK. If not, you could still try the added wire trick. Doug VE3XDB
            Message 5 of 5 , Nov 13, 2010
              Oops! I misread. Your antenna is 43'. I would bet the tuner would do OK. If not, you could still try the "added wire" trick.

              Doug VE3XDB


              --- In Smartuners@yahoogroups.com, "ve3xdb" <ve3xdb@...> wrote:
              >
              >
              >
              > Tom,
              >
              > Nice to see this group is still going! In 2003(!) I saved a message posted by Rudy K8SWD, indicating the "magic antenna lengths" for the SGC tuners. I have used his advise, and have found it to be sound. From his message:
              >
              > ----------
              > "Avoid half-wave multiples. Odd quarter wave multiples seem OK (1/4; 3/4; 1 1/4, 1
              > 3/4; etc., seem OK).
              >
              >
              >
              > 1/2 wave = 300/freq MHz x 1/2 wave multiples (in meters)
              >
              >
              >
              > Example: 300/29 x .5 (1, 2, 3....) = 5.2 meters; 10.3 meters, 15.5 meters; and
              > so on.
              >
              >
              >
              > Generally, if you stay with a length of antenna wire that is NOT resonant in any ham band, you are fine. Workable lengths "windows" to use for portable
              > deployments are as follows:
              >
              >
              >
              > Window (ft) Center ft/m
              >
              > 23 to 32 28/8.5
              >
              > 35 to 44 40/12
              >
              > 52 to 64 58/17.7
              >
              > 70 to 82 76/23.2
              >
              > 92 to 98 95/29.1
              >
              > 105 to 113 113/33.2
              >
              > 140 to 149 145/44.2"
              >
              > ----------
              >
              > So your 47' vertical falls outside of the windows outlined by Rudy. It's probably close to a half wave on 30 meters and a full wave on 15 meters, which would probably push the tuner to its limits!
              >
              > For several years, I ran a ground mounted 58' inverted L (12' vertical and about 46' sloping up to a height of 18') with a 70' counterpoise and ten 12' radials. This setup tuned nicely on all bands. One option might be to add a few feet of wire to the top of your antenna, tying it off in an L configuration, or using insulated wire and running it back down the side of your vertical and seeing what happens.
              >
              > Hope this helps a bit. Good luck!
              >
              > Best regards,
              >
              > Doug VE3XDB
              >
              > --- In Smartuners@yahoogroups.com, "tomk3mov" <tomk3mov@> wrote:
              > >
              > > I am considering the purchase of an SG 235 coupler, but would like a
              > > little more information before parting with over a kilobuck. My setup
              > > is this: An Icom 756 PROIII, an Ameritron ALS 600 Solid State Amplifier
              > > and an MFJ 998 Auto Tuner in the shack. My antennas are a Zerofive 43
              > > ft. non-resonant vertical, ground mounted with 40 forty five foot
              > > radials extending from a DX Engineering Plate; a Hy Gain AV-640 Vertical
              > > Antenna about 15 ft. above the ground; and a G5RV about 35 ft. above the
              > > ground. I have had all of these antennas for several years and am
              > > generally satisfied with them, but as we hams are wont to do, I am
              > > considering a change. I am not supposed to have any antennas in my
              > > development. It is only because my neighbor directly behind me is the
              > > only one who can see them, and they don't bother him in the least, that
              > > I am able to have this small antenna farm. However, I may be pushing my
              > > luck, and I may need a more efficient antenna system. As I am sure you
              > > know, there are only two couplers that can handle 500 watts and be
              > > mounted safely at the base of the antenna: your SG 235 and the Chinese
              > > CG 5000. What I am considering doing is getting rid of the Hy Gain
              > > antenna, the G5RV and the MFJ 998. That would leave me with the
              > > Zerofive aluminum stick and the SG 235, which I would buy from you. I
              > > have found very little documented information that is helpful in making
              > > this decision. Even though the e-ham Reviews indicate several hams use
              > > your lower power tuners with the 43 ft. antenna with good results, an
              > > excerpt from the Zerofive assembly manual states as follows:
              > > ANTENNA TUNER CHOICE
              > > A good quality antenna should be used with this vertical. Examples are
              > > Palstar, Dentron, Ameritron ATR 30. Some SGC remote tuners will not
              > > match some bands on this vertical and should be avoided. Most rigs with
              > > built in antenna tuners will have no problem with matching this vertical
              > > if the radio power only will be used. If your tuner doesn't't match
              > > the antenna on a particular band, try adding 10 to 25 feet of coax using
              > > a barrel connector and try matching again.
              > >
              > >
              > > And thus my dilemma. I am about spend over $1,000.00 for a coupler that
              > > the manufacturer suggests that I not even consider. Please be kind
              > > enough to let me know if you feel the SG 235 will work properly with the
              > > ALS 600 / Zerofive combination and whether any changes will be required
              > > to the antenna to allow the 235 function properly.
              > >
              > > Thank you for your consideration,
              > > Tom Baxter, K3MOV
              > >
              >
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