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Re: buddipole dipole with sgc237

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  • WILLIAM WALLACE
    The reason I can not hang a dipole over the house is that I do not have anything in the neighborhood to hang the dipole from. Do you know the answer to my
    Message 1 of 15 , Oct 1, 2007
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      The reason I can not hang a dipole over the house is that I do not
      have anything in the neighborhood to hang the dipole from. Do you
      know the answer to my question?

      Thanks

      --- In Smartuners@yahoogroups.com, "Bill Anderson" <wb4tjh@...> wrote:
      >
      > --- In Smartuners@yahoogroups.com, "WILLIAM WALLACE" <bill@> wrote:
      > >
      > > Good question. The reason I want a "tuner" connected to the
      > Buddipole
      > > is so that I do not have to go thru the effort to go to the
      > Buddipole
      > > which is on top of my house on a mast, and adjust the coil taps
      > when I
      > > switch bands. I do not run the Buddipole with the coils, so I
      also
      > > saved the price of the coils when I purchased the Buddipole which
      > > offset part of the price of the "tuner"
      > >
      > > --- In Smartuners@yahoogroups.com, Richard McKee <QRP_1@> wrote:
      > > >
      > > > Pardon my ignorance, but why connect a tuner to the Buddipole -
      > isn't
      > > it
      > > > designed to be a resonant antenna that needs no tuner ?> > Rick
      > McKee, KC8AON, Ohio - www.angelfire.com/electronic2/qrp
      > > > Monthly QRP Field Day Group -
      http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MQFD/
      > > > With God all things are possible <><
      > > >
      > >
      > If you have your antenna on the top of the house on a mast,take the
      > buddipole down, go get ten bucks worth of wire and make as big a
      > random dipole as you can get, feed the dipole with twinlead and
      hook
      > that to the tuner, then run a short piece of coax from the rig to
      the
      > tuner. What you are describing is an absolute total waste of money
      > and effort.The buddipole is designed to be used with those coils
      for
      > different bands, otherwise you will be wasting 90% of your RF power
      > in the coax feedline. Better yet, go get the ARRL antenna book and
      > learn something about antennas.
      >
    • Graham
      ... Why there is this misconception that a dipole needs to be hung beats me. You have a mast/support on top of your house. The centre/feedpoint is hung up
      Message 2 of 15 , Oct 1, 2007
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        --- In Smartuners@yahoogroups.com, "WILLIAM WALLACE" <bill@...> wrote:
        >
        > The reason I can not hang a dipole over the house is that I do not
        > have anything in the neighborhood to hang the dipole from. Do you
        > know the answer to my question?
        >
        > Thanks
        >

        Why there is this misconception that a dipole needs to be 'hung' beats me.

        You have a mast/support on top of your house. The centre/feedpoint is
        hung up there. Now run the antenna as an inverted V - one leg to the
        back of the property, one to the front. Use thin nylon rope to tie the
        tails off at ground level. Can you visualise this ? Say 33feet of
        'aerial' on each leg, then an insulator, then nylon to the tie off
        point, be that ground , a fence or whatever.

        That, fed with a 237 will match 80 - 10 no problems.

        Personally I wouldnt even go to that extreme, but run a 6turn 10ft
        side horizontal loop inside the roof void. That setup got me DXCC with
        20watts and a 237.

        Have fun

        Graham M5AAV
      • stefan allum
        how would you feed the centre the from the 237? i am thinking of doing exactly what you say accept not sure how to connect the 237 on the ground,, i e theres
        Message 3 of 15 , Oct 1, 2007
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          how would you feed the centre the from the 237?  i am thinking of doing exactly what you say accept not sure how to connect the 237 on the ground,, i'e theres a hot and a cold terminal on the 237,,, do i just feed the top of the dipole with the hot(top terminal) or what? and also i guess the bottom(earth) terminal
          will be earthed which is not a problem here..
          ----- Original Message -----
          From: Graham
          Sent: Monday, October 01, 2007 4:36 PM
          Subject: [Smartuners] Re: buddipole dipole with sgc237

          --- In Smartuners@yahoogro ups.com, "WILLIAM WALLACE" <bill@...> wrote:
          >
          > The reason I can not hang a dipole over the house is that I do not
          > have anything in the neighborhood to hang the dipole from. Do you
          > know the answer to my question?
          >
          > Thanks
          >

          Why there is this misconception that a dipole needs to be 'hung' beats me.

          You have a mast/support on top of your house. The centre/feedpoint is
          hung up there. Now run the antenna as an inverted V - one leg to the
          back of the property, one to the front. Use thin nylon rope to tie the
          tails off at ground level. Can you visualise this ? Say 33feet of
          'aerial' on each leg, then an insulator, then nylon to the tie off
          point, be that ground , a fence or whatever.

          That, fed with a 237 will match 80 - 10 no problems.

          Personally I wouldnt even go to that extreme, but run a 6turn 10ft
          side horizontal loop inside the roof void. That setup got me DXCC with
          20watts and a 237.

          Have fun

          Graham M5AAV

        • stefan allum
          also,,, i often hear people say use ladder line or ribbon reather than coax and dipole centre from a 237,,, surely the ladder line has two cables so does
          Message 4 of 15 , Oct 1, 2007
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            also,,, i often hear people say use ladder line or ribbon reather than coax and dipole centre from a 237,,, surely the ladder line has two cables so does coax,,,? help
            ----- Original Message -----
            Sent: Monday, October 01, 2007 5:37 PM
            Subject: Re: [Smartuners] Re: buddipole dipole with sgc237

            how would you feed the centre the from the 237?  i am thinking of doing exactly what you say accept not sure how to connect the 237 on the ground,, i'e theres a hot and a cold terminal on the 237,,, do i just feed the top of the dipole with the hot(top terminal) or what? and also i guess the bottom(earth) terminal
            will be earthed which is not a problem here..
            ----- Original Message -----
            From: Graham
            Sent: Monday, October 01, 2007 4:36 PM
            Subject: [Smartuners] Re: buddipole dipole with sgc237

            --- In Smartuners@yahoogro ups.com, "WILLIAM WALLACE" <bill@...> wrote:
            >
            > The reason I can not hang a dipole over the house is that I do not
            > have anything in the neighborhood to hang the dipole from. Do you
            > know the answer to my question?
            >
            > Thanks
            >

            Why there is this misconception that a dipole needs to be 'hung' beats me.

            You have a mast/support on top of your house. The centre/feedpoint is
            hung up there. Now run the antenna as an inverted V - one leg to the
            back of the property, one to the front. Use thin nylon rope to tie the
            tails off at ground level. Can you visualise this ? Say 33feet of
            'aerial' on each leg, then an insulator, then nylon to the tie off
            point, be that ground , a fence or whatever.

            That, fed with a 237 will match 80 - 10 no problems.

            Personally I wouldnt even go to that extreme, but run a 6turn 10ft
            side horizontal loop inside the roof void. That setup got me DXCC with
            20watts and a 237.

            Have fun

            Graham M5AAV

          • Graham
            ... doing exactly what you say accept not sure how to connect the 237 on the ground,, i e theres a hot and a cold terminal on the 237,,, do i just feed the top
            Message 5 of 15 , Oct 1, 2007
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              --- In Smartuners@yahoogroups.com, "stefan allum" <stef@...> wrote:
              >
              > how would you feed the centre the from the 237? i am thinking of
              doing exactly what you say accept not sure how to connect the 237 on
              the ground,, i'e theres a hot and a cold terminal on the 237,,, do i
              just feed the top of the dipole with the hot(top terminal) or what?
              and also i guess the bottom(earth) terminal
              > will be earthed which is not a problem here..

              Two answers in one.

              Taking your other post. Coax has two wires [inner and screen] NEVER
              connect Coax between a 237 and an aerial. Simply it will not work.

              I'm trying to understand your setup and now think you want to place
              the 237 at ground level to feed an elevated antenna [which we will
              call a dipole]
              Easy [It says here with a smile]

              Picture the aforementioned 'dipole' - up in the sky.
              The 237 has two terminals [hot and cold]
              Take a length of open wire feeder/ribbon. Connect one side to the hot
              and one to the cold.
              The other end connect one side to one leg of the dipole and t'other
              side to the other leg.

              There is no earth connection per-sé. One side of the dipole is, if you
              like - the aerial, and t'other is a floating 'earth'.

              If I was doing this. I would take two lengths of wire and a packet of
              clipon open wire spacers and the feeder section 'changes' into the
              antenna legs. This is exactly how I have fed my loftmounted loops in
              the past with a 237 in the shack - the feeders running up through the
              ceiling, spaced as open wire feeder.

              Does any of that makes sense ?

              Graham M5AAV
            • Richard McKee
              how would you feed the centre the from the 237? i am thinking of doing exactly what you say accept not sure how to connect the 237 on the ground,, [snip] The
              Message 6 of 15 , Oct 1, 2007
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                how would you feed the centre the from the 237?  i am thinking of doing exactly what you say accept not sure how to connect the 237 on the ground,, [snip]
                 
                The best way would be to put the 237 at the feedpoint of the dipole - one wire connected to the "hot" side, and one wire connected to the "cold or ground" side of the tuner.  Second best is to feed the dipole with low loss balanced feedline and connect the balanced feedline to the tuner.  The balanced feedline has 2 conductors that are parallel to each other and at the antenna end each wire is connected to the 2 dipole wires, and at the tuner end, one wire is connected to hot, and the other connected to cold (ground) side - VERY SIMPLE !  Then you simply run a short coax from the tuner to the radio.
                 
                Someone here mentioned a question asking if coax has 2 wires or not.  Not making fun of you or giving you a hard time or anything like that here, but you do need to do some research on feedlines and their construction, and some research on basic antenna construction - you need to learn how to build a basic dipole or doublet fed with balanced feedline, and you need to learn the proper technique to install connectors on coax feedline.  If you don't, you are in for a lot of grief and possibly damage to your radio !  I would suggest that you also find someone in your area that is willing to help instruct you in these things and answer any questions you might have.  I have seen some real nightmares when it comes to antennas and feedlines, and it was simply because they were never taught how to do it right.  Its nothing to be ashamed of mind you, but if you want to enjoy the hobby, you need to learn how to do these things.  I'm no expert by a long shot, but I have never bought a single commercial antenna and built all of them myself - its much cheaper that way and more fun too !  So if you have any questions, I'll be more than happy to try and help you find the answer.

                Rick McKee, KC8AON, Ohio - www.angelfire.com/electronic2/qrp
                Monthly QRP Field Day Group - http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MQFD/
                With God all things are possible <><
              • stefan allum
                many thanks for the info,,, i m now getting to where i need to be,, i have the remains of a butternut antenna (bottom section with coils) from my last qth (the
                Message 7 of 15 , Oct 2, 2007
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                  many thanks for the info,,, i'm now getting to where i need to be,, i have the remains of a butternut antenna (bottom section with coils) from my last qth (the top pole got smashed in house move).... i wondered if anyone had ever fed one of these with a sgc tuner?   i was thinking of replacing the missing top pole with horizontol wire instead ,,what ya think?
                  ----- Original Message -----
                  Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2007 1:08 AM
                  Subject: Re: [Smartuners] Re: buddipole dipole with sgc237

                  how would you feed the centre the from the 237?  i am thinking of doing exactly what you say accept not sure how to connect the 237 on the ground,, [snip]
                   
                  The best way would be to put the 237 at the feedpoint of the dipole - one wire connected to the "hot" side, and one wire connected to the "cold or ground" side of the tuner.  Second best is to feed the dipole with low loss balanced feedline and connect the balanced feedline to the tuner.  The balanced feedline has 2 conductors that are parallel to each other and at the antenna end each wire is connected to the 2 dipole wires, and at the tuner end, one wire is connected to hot, and the other connected to cold (ground) side - VERY SIMPLE !  Then you simply run a short coax from the tuner to the radio.
                   
                  Someone here mentioned a question asking if coax has 2 wires or not.  Not making fun of you or giving you a hard time or anything like that here, but you do need to do some research on feedlines and their construction, and some research on basic antenna construction - you need to learn how to build a basic dipole or doublet fed with balanced feedline, and you need to learn the proper technique to install connectors on coax feedline.  If you don't, you are in for a lot of grief and possibly damage to your radio !  I would suggest that you also find someone in your area that is willing to help instruct you in these things and answer any questions you might have.  I have seen some real nightmares when it comes to antennas and feedlines, and it was simply because they were never taught how to do it right.  Its nothing to be ashamed of mind you, but if you want to enjoy the hobby, you need to learn how to do these things.  I'm no expert by a long shot, but I have never bought a single commercial antenna and built all of them myself - its much cheaper that way and more fun too !  So if you have any questions, I'll be more than happy to try and help you find the answer.

                  Rick McKee, KC8AON, Ohio - www.angelfire. com/electronic2/ qrp
                  Monthly QRP Field Day Group - http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/MQFD/
                  With God all things are possible <><

                • stefan allum
                  graham,, have you any experience with butternut antenna s? ... From: Graham To: Smartuners@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, October 01, 2007 6:26 PM Subject:
                  Message 8 of 15 , Oct 2, 2007
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                    graham,, have you any experience with butternut antenna's?
                    ----- Original Message -----
                    From: Graham
                    Sent: Monday, October 01, 2007 6:26 PM
                    Subject: [Smartuners] Re: buddipole dipole with sgc237

                    --- In Smartuners@yahoogro ups.com, "stefan allum" <stef@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > how would you feed the centre the from the 237? i am thinking of
                    doing exactly what you say accept not sure how to connect the 237 on
                    the ground,, i'e theres a hot and a cold terminal on the 237,,, do i
                    just feed the top of the dipole with the hot(top terminal) or what?
                    and also i guess the bottom(earth) terminal
                    > will be earthed which is not a problem here..

                    Two answers in one.

                    Taking your other post. Coax has two wires [inner and screen] NEVER
                    connect Coax between a 237 and an aerial. Simply it will not work.

                    I'm trying to understand your setup and now think you want to place
                    the 237 at ground level to feed an elevated antenna [which we will
                    call a dipole]
                    Easy [It says here with a smile]

                    Picture the aforementioned 'dipole' - up in the sky.
                    The 237 has two terminals [hot and cold]
                    Take a length of open wire feeder/ribbon. Connect one side to the hot
                    and one to the cold.
                    The other end connect one side to one leg of the dipole and t'other
                    side to the other leg.

                    There is no earth connection per-sé. One side of the dipole is, if you
                    like - the aerial, and t'other is a floating 'earth'.

                    If I was doing this. I would take two lengths of wire and a packet of
                    clipon open wire spacers and the feeder section 'changes' into the
                    antenna legs. This is exactly how I have fed my loftmounted loops in
                    the past with a 237 in the shack - the feeders running up through the
                    ceiling, spaced as open wire feeder.

                    Does any of that makes sense ?

                    Graham M5AAV

                  • Graham
                    ... None whatsoever I m afraid. The only commercial antennae I have used in the last 27years [have I really been licenced that long?] were for VHF. And even
                    Message 9 of 15 , Oct 2, 2007
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                      --- In Smartuners@yahoogroups.com, "stefan allum" <stef@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > graham,, have you any experience with butternut antenna's?


                      None whatsoever I'm afraid.

                      The only commercial antennae I have used in the last 27years [have I
                      'really' been licenced that long?] were for VHF. And even then I built
                      an assortment of beams from raw materials [I used to work for an
                      Anodisers - aka 'free aluminium stock']

                      All my HF antennae have been wire/homebrew [apart from the /M whips]

                      Graham
                    • stefan allum
                      ok,, anyone else out there ever tried a 230 or 237 on a butternut or hustler (or any vertical type homebase antenna) and had success? ... From: Graham To:
                      Message 10 of 15 , Oct 2, 2007
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                        ok,, anyone else out there ever tried a 230 or 237 on a butternut or hustler (or any vertical type homebase antenna) and had success?
                        ----- Original Message -----
                        From: Graham
                        Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2007 1:07 PM
                        Subject: [Smartuners] Re: buddipole dipole with sgc237

                        --- In Smartuners@yahoogro ups.com, "stefan allum" <stef@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > graham,, have you any experience with butternut antenna's?

                        None whatsoever I'm afraid.

                        The only commercial antennae I have used in the last 27years [have I
                        'really' been licenced that long?] were for VHF. And even then I built
                        an assortment of beams from raw materials [I used to work for an
                        Anodisers - aka 'free aluminium stock']

                        All my HF antennae have been wire/homebrew [apart from the /M whips]

                        Graham

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