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RE: [Small4-strokeEngines] Re: AeroMorph

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  • Noel Loveys
    Up in the North it would take a trip to the witness box to get you to answer that question and then there are regulations that the prosecution cannot use any
    Message 1 of 19 , Jul 1, 2010
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      Up in the North it would take a trip to the witness box to get you to answer
      that question and then there are regulations that the prosecution cannot use
      any information given in one court case in any other court case. In other
      words B&S wouldn't be allowed to use the info given in court to cut off a
      supplier. Then what is the chances you would just pick up another supplier.



      South of the 49th it's a lot simpler. Plead the fifth!



      Noel



      From: Small4-strokeEngines@yahoogroups.com
      [mailto:Small4-strokeEngines@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of George Bearden
      Sent: June 30, 2010 10:23 PM
      To: Small4-strokeEngines@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: RE: [Small4-strokeEngines] Re: AeroMorph





      I know almost nothing on this topic. but I seem to remember that in similar
      cases the manufacturer has to identify the supplier you use, and cut him
      off.

      GeoB

      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





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    • texasdeadstick
      Who cares about this legal bull? Just build your experiment plane to please yourself and flying it. We re getting way off topic here. Johnny Robertson Canadian
      Message 2 of 19 , Jul 1, 2010
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        Who cares about this legal bull?

        Just build your experiment plane to please yourself and flying it.

        We're getting way off topic here.

        Johnny Robertson
        Canadian River
        Borger, TX


        --- In Small4-strokeEngines@yahoogroups.com, Peter Walker <peterwalker58@...> wrote:
        >
        > Hello
        >  B+S needs to know you are using one of their engines BEFORE they can even send a cease use letter Then you start having fun..... if you have time you use legal process to collect further and better information. They have to supply you with almost anything you ask for that may help you defend your case.
        > First one is the contract you signed to use only in applications they approve of.
        > Peter
        >
        >
        >
        > --- On Thu, 7/1/10, Noel Loveys <noelloveys@...> wrote:
        >
        > From: Noel Loveys <noelloveys@...>
        > Subject: RE: [Small4-strokeEngines] Re: AeroMorph
        > To: Small4-strokeEngines@yahoogroups.com
        > Date: Thursday, July 1, 2010, 6:52 AM
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        > You may have a point on hiring a lawyer but I find it hard to see where they
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        > would have a case. Is there a section in their manuals that specifically
        >
        > disallows engine modification? Is there a section that specifically
        >
        > disallows use in aircraft? The way I see it is if you did have to hire a
        >
        > lawyer he should stay on for the counter suit.
        >
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        >
        > Noel
        >
        >
        >
        > From: Small4-strokeEngines@yahoogroups.com
        >
        > [mailto:Small4-strokeEngines@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Mark Stull
        >
        > Sent: June 30, 2010 5:49 PM
        >
        > To: Small4-strokeEngines@yahoogroups.com
        >
        > Subject: [Small4-strokeEngines] Re: AeroMorph
        >
        >
        >
        > I'm no lawyer, but it would seem that B&S could have standing if you were
        >
        > selling aircraft with their engines, or even selling their engines
        >
        > specifically converted for use on aircraft. I don't think they can win a
        >
        > suit against you no matter how you use their engines for personal use. But
        >
        > they could harass you and threaten to sue you, which might force you to hire
        >
        > a lawyer to defend yourself.
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      • George Bearden
        ... Historically in this sport, this topic has been a real concern and stumbling block for a number of ultralight manufacturers, none of whom I can name as I
        Message 3 of 19 , Jul 1, 2010
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          >We're getting way off topic here.

          Historically in this sport, this topic has been a real concern and stumbling
          block for a number of ultralight manufacturers, none of whom I can name as I
          sit here.

          Thus I feel that while we need not consume ourselves with concern, it can't
          hurt us too much to have a small discussion about it.

          GeoB







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        • Noel Loveys
          A-men to that! Noel From: Small4-strokeEngines@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Small4-strokeEngines@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of texasdeadstick Sent: July 1, 2010
          Message 4 of 19 , Jul 1, 2010
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            A-men to that!



            Noel



            From: Small4-strokeEngines@yahoogroups.com
            [mailto:Small4-strokeEngines@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of texasdeadstick
            Sent: July 1, 2010 12:42 PM
            To: Small4-strokeEngines@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: [Small4-strokeEngines] Re: AeroMorph





            Who cares about this legal bull?

            Just build your experiment plane to please yourself and flying it.

            We're getting way off topic here.

            Johnny Robertson
            Canadian River
            Borger, TX

            --- In Small4-strokeEngines@yahoogroups.com
            <mailto:Small4-strokeEngines%40yahoogroups.com> , Peter Walker
            <peterwalker58@...> wrote:
            >
            > Hello
            > Â B+S needs to know you are using one of their engines BEFORE they can
            even send a cease use letter Then you start having fun..... if you have time
            you use legal process to collect further and better information. They have
            to supply you with almost anything you ask for that may help you defend your
            case.
            > First one is the contract you signed to use only in applications they
            approve of.
            > Peter
            >
            >
            >
            > --- On Thu, 7/1/10, Noel Loveys <noelloveys@...> wrote:
            >
            > From: Noel Loveys <noelloveys@...>
            > Subject: RE: [Small4-strokeEngines] Re: AeroMorph
            > To: Small4-strokeEngines@yahoogroups.com
            <mailto:Small4-strokeEngines%40yahoogroups.com>
            > Date: Thursday, July 1, 2010, 6:52 AM
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > Â
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > You may have a point on hiring a lawyer but I find it hard to see where
            they
            >
            > would have a case. Is there a section in their manuals that specifically
            >
            > disallows engine modification? Is there a section that specifically
            >
            > disallows use in aircraft? The way I see it is if you did have to hire a
            >
            > lawyer he should stay on for the counter suit.
            >
            >
            >
            > Noel
            >
            >
            >
            > From: Small4-strokeEngines@yahoogroups.com
            <mailto:Small4-strokeEngines%40yahoogroups.com>
            >
            > [mailto:Small4-strokeEngines@yahoogroups.com
            <mailto:Small4-strokeEngines%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Mark Stull
            >
            > Sent: June 30, 2010 5:49 PM
            >
            > To: Small4-strokeEngines@yahoogroups.com
            <mailto:Small4-strokeEngines%40yahoogroups.com>
            >
            > Subject: [Small4-strokeEngines] Re: AeroMorph
            >
            >
            >
            > I'm no lawyer, but it would seem that B&S could have standing if you were
            >
            > selling aircraft with their engines, or even selling their engines
            >
            > specifically converted for use on aircraft. I don't think they can win a
            >
            > suit against you no matter how you use their engines for personal use. But
            >
            > they could harass you and threaten to sue you, which might force you to
            hire
            >
            > a lawyer to defend yourself.
            >
            >
            >
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          • Bob Stovall
            I simply fail to see what their cause of action would be. What if I used the engine in a go-kart or a hybrid vehicle. If I own a quantity of the engines and
            Message 5 of 19 , Jul 6, 2010
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              I simply fail to see what their cause of action would be. What if I used the engine in a go-kart or a hybrid vehicle.

              If I own a quantity of the engines and want to use them as ammunition in my trebouchet, what business if it if theirs?




              ________________________________
              From: Tim A. <firepilot1@...>
              To: Small4-strokeEngines@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Wed, June 30, 2010 1:31:35 PM
              Subject: [Small4-strokeEngines] Re: AeroMorph


              What about the fact that if B&S ever finds out you are using the motor for an aircraft that they will come after you with a cease and desist court order??

              This has happened to at least one well known designer that liked the use of B&S engines in his designs.

              Tim A.

              --- In Small4-strokeEngines@yahoogroups.com, vfr10000@... wrote:
              >
              > Then their is the TBO... Id be more incline to do all the MODS if it were a HONDA.
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > -----Original Message-----
              > From: Larry Malone <larrymalone2000@...>
              > To: Small4-strokeEngines <Small4-strokeEngines@yahoogroups.com>
              > Sent: Tue, Jun 29, 2010 7:24 am
              > Subject: Re: [Small4-strokeEngines] AeroMorph
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > Have you seen the Briggs direct drive? I'll attach a photo, that I downloaded from somewhere. You start with a 23 to 30 Hp Briggs 4 stroke engine. Remove the governer, and generally "soup-it-up". It requires alot of work to modify. But, I should think, less work than cutting a volkwagen engine in half. The 23 Hp Briggs weights in at 77lbs dry weight from the factory. They say it is relatively easy to get them up to 50 Hp with modifications (more if you start with the 30 Hp).
              >
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              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Nunnelly Golf
              If you are an individual user they can have nothing to say. But when you are marketing their engine for use in an aircraft or along with a aircraft package
              Message 6 of 19 , Jul 6, 2010
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                If you are an individual user they can have nothing to say. But when you are marketing their engine for use in an aircraft or along with a aircraft package either built ready to fly or to be assembled; it becomes another issue.

                SPOON
                ----- Original Message -----
                From: Bob Stovall
                To: Small4-strokeEngines@yahoogroups.com
                Sent: Tuesday, July 06, 2010 4:28 PM
                Subject: Re: [Small4-strokeEngines] Re: AeroMorph



                I simply fail to see what their cause of action would be. What if I used the engine in a go-kart or a hybrid vehicle.

                If I own a quantity of the engines and want to use them as ammunition in my trebouchet, what business if it if theirs?

                ________________________________
                From: Tim A. <firepilot1@...>
                To: Small4-strokeEngines@yahoogroups.com
                Sent: Wed, June 30, 2010 1:31:35 PM
                Subject: [Small4-strokeEngines] Re: AeroMorph

                What about the fact that if B&S ever finds out you are using the motor for an aircraft that they will come after you with a cease and desist court order??

                This has happened to at least one well known designer that liked the use of B&S engines in his designs.

                Tim A.

                --- In Small4-strokeEngines@yahoogroups.com, vfr10000@... wrote:
                >
                > Then their is the TBO... Id be more incline to do all the MODS if it were a HONDA.
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > -----Original Message-----
                > From: Larry Malone <larrymalone2000@...>
                > To: Small4-strokeEngines <Small4-strokeEngines@yahoogroups.com>
                > Sent: Tue, Jun 29, 2010 7:24 am
                > Subject: Re: [Small4-strokeEngines] AeroMorph
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > Have you seen the Briggs direct drive? I'll attach a photo, that I downloaded from somewhere. You start with a 23 to 30 Hp Briggs 4 stroke engine. Remove the governer, and generally "soup-it-up". It requires alot of work to modify. But, I should think, less work than cutting a volkwagen engine in half. The 23 Hp Briggs weights in at 77lbs dry weight from the factory. They say it is relatively easy to get them up to 50 Hp with modifications (more if you start with the 30 Hp).
                >
                >
                >
                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >

                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





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              • Bob Stovall
                Try to imagine Smith & Wesson or Colt bringing a civil action against a bank robber for using their firearm to rob a bank. Engine mods are done to factory iron
                Message 7 of 19 , Jul 6, 2010
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                  Try to imagine Smith & Wesson or Colt bringing a civil action against a bank
                  robber for using their firearm to rob a bank.

                  Engine mods are done to factory iron every day to alter the purpose for which it
                  was originally built, usually with the modifier renaming the product.

                  flycorvair.com is a perfect example of such a situation and not a peep from GM,
                  which is now defunct BTW.

                  The engine that started this thread was, initially, a Volkswagen but it has BMW
                  motor cycle pistons and custom rods and a custom crank. Who has standing to
                  complain?

                  And how many members of this site intend to market a kit or a certified aircraft
                  as the result of their efforts here?

                  Pick your hardware, adapt it to your purpose, make sure it is safe and reliable
                  and avoid conversations with representatives of the OEM except to purchase more
                  of it it if suits your purpose.



                  ________________________________
                  From: Nunnelly Golf <nunnellygolfc661@...>
                  To: Small4-strokeEngines@yahoogroups.com
                  Sent: Tue, July 6, 2010 5:35:26 PM
                  Subject: Re: [Small4-strokeEngines] Re: AeroMorph


                  If you are an individual user they can have nothing to say. But when you are
                  marketing their engine for use in an aircraft or along with a aircraft package
                  either built ready to fly or to be assembled; it becomes another issue.


                  SPOON
                  ----- Original Message -----
                  From: Bob Stovall
                  To: Small4-strokeEngines@yahoogroups.com
                  Sent: Tuesday, July 06, 2010 4:28 PM
                  Subject: Re: [Small4-strokeEngines] Re: AeroMorph

                  I simply fail to see what their cause of action would be. What if I used the
                  engine in a go-kart or a hybrid vehicle.

                  If I own a quantity of the engines and want to use them as ammunition in my
                  trebouchet, what business if it if theirs?

                  ________________________________
                  From: Tim A. <firepilot1@...>
                  To: Small4-strokeEngines@yahoogroups.com
                  Sent: Wed, June 30, 2010 1:31:35 PM
                  Subject: [Small4-strokeEngines] Re: AeroMorph

                  What about the fact that if B&S ever finds out you are using the motor for an
                  aircraft that they will come after you with a cease and desist court order??

                  This has happened to at least one well known designer that liked the use of B&S
                  engines in his designs.

                  Tim A.

                  --- In Small4-strokeEngines@yahoogroups.com, vfr10000@... wrote:
                  >
                  > Then their is the TBO... Id be more incline to do all the MODS if it were a
                  >HONDA.
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > -----Original Message-----
                  > From: Larry Malone <larrymalone2000@...>
                  > To: Small4-strokeEngines <Small4-strokeEngines@yahoogroups.com>
                  > Sent: Tue, Jun 29, 2010 7:24 am
                  > Subject: Re: [Small4-strokeEngines] AeroMorph
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Have you seen the Briggs direct drive? I'll attach a photo, that I downloaded
                  >from somewhere. You start with a 23 to 30 Hp Briggs 4 stroke engine. Remove the
                  >governer, and generally "soup-it-up". It requires alot of work to modify. But, I
                  >should think, less work than cutting a volkwagen engine in half. The 23 Hp
                  >Briggs weights in at 77lbs dry weight from the factory. They say it is
                  >relatively easy to get them up to 50 Hp with modifications (more if you start
                  >with the 30 Hp).
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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                • Robert Hansberger
                  He ll call homeland security and complain about hoards of goths. ... From: Bob Stovall Subject: Re: [Small4-strokeEngines] Re: AeroMorph
                  Message 8 of 19 , Jul 7, 2010
                  • 0 Attachment
                    He'll call homeland security and complain about hoards of goths.

                    --- On Tue, 7/6/10, Bob Stovall <bstovall98@...> wrote:


                    From: Bob Stovall <bstovall98@...>
                    Subject: Re: [Small4-strokeEngines] Re: AeroMorph
                    To: Small4-strokeEngines@yahoogroups.com
                    Date: Tuesday, July 6, 2010, 6:29 PM


                     



                    Not yet. HEY! There's another idea for a Yahoo group!

                    ________________________________
                    From: George Bearden <gab16@...>
                    To: Small4-strokeEngines@yahoogroups.com
                    Sent: Tue, July 6, 2010 8:15:38 PM
                    Subject: RE: [Small4-strokeEngines] Re: AeroMorph

                    > want to use them as ammunition in my trebouchet

                    Wow! You have a trebuchet? I want one! My stupid neighbor will never call the
                    poe-leece on ME again!

                    GeoB

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