Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.
 

Re: CITROEN VISA ENGINE

Expand Messages
  • Brian Hope
    Hi Doug, Haynes publish a Citroen Visa manual ( Number 0620) in English. It is for the whole car but they are good manuals and the engine will be well covered.
    Message 1 of 27 , Jan 1, 2010
      Hi Doug, Haynes publish a Citroen Visa manual ( Number 0620) in English.
      It is for the whole car but they are good manuals and the engine will be
      well covered. Google them and you'll probably be able to order it on line.
    • Douglas Russell-White
      Thanks for the tip Brian. Doug ________________________________ From: Brian Hope To: Small4-strokeEngines@yahoogroups.com Sent: Fri,
      Message 2 of 27 , Jan 1, 2010
        Thanks for the tip Brian.
        Doug




        ________________________________
        From: Brian Hope <bfjjodel@...>
        To: Small4-strokeEngines@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Fri, January 1, 2010 3:29:59 PM
        Subject: [Small4-strokeEngines] Re: CITROEN VISA ENGINE


        Hi Doug, Haynes publish a Citroen Visa manual ( Number 0620) in English.
        It is for the whole car but they are good manuals and the engine will be
        well covered. Google them and you'll probably be able to order it on line.






        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • johandaelemans
        Hi Régis, As you probably now already, power comes from torque and revolutions/min. We know also that with today s technology we can get 85 to 95 Nm out of a
        Message 3 of 27 , Jan 1, 2010
          Hi Régis,

          As you probably now already, power comes from torque and revolutions/min.
          We know also that with today's technology we can get 85 to 95 Nm out of a 1000cc 4-stroke engine with a 2 valve head. (normal aspirated engine)
          For the Visa engine with the 800cc kit is this 90Nm x 0,8 = 72 Nm

          The formula of power is
          Power (kW) = rpm x torque / 9549 or Power (hp) = rpm x torque x 1,36 / 9549

          As torque is more or less a fixed number (normal aspirated engine) we need to play with the engine speed to get your 65 hp.

          Rpm= power x 9549 = 65 x 9549 = 620685 = 6340 rpm.
          Torque x 1,36 72 x 1,36 97,92

          How can we get this power and a reliable engine?
          - new custom lightweight crank and rods,
          - new custom pistons,
          - new retimed camshaft,
          - cleaned up head & tuned intake trumpets and airbox
          - dual digital management system (ignition and injection)

          Don't be mad if you get 62 or 68 hp…Nobody can tell for sure without building the engine.
          In the worst case, you could speed up the engine a few 100 revolutions more.

          Johan
        • johandaelemans
          Doug, Monsieur Citroen has optimized the Visa engine for a car… There is a small difference. If you want to run your engine in the 5000 to 6500 range, you
          Message 4 of 27 , Jan 1, 2010
            Doug,

            Monsieur Citroen has optimized the Visa engine for a car…
            There is a small difference. If you want to run your engine
            in the 5000 to 6500 range, you better use a cam that gives the best torque as close as possible.
            In this case the camshaft of the 435cc is best.

            I understand that import is very expensive.
            Sending it over as a gift is a solution in my country . ;-) .

            Johan
          • Douglas Russell-White
            Thanks Johan, QSL. I ll check if both camshafts are interchangeable; if not, there are specialized workshops that can take care of the mod, even design the
            Message 5 of 27 , Jan 1, 2010
              Thanks Johan, QSL. I'll check if both camshafts are interchangeable; if not, there are specialized workshops that can take care of the mod, even design the appropriate cams.
              Sending it over as a gift is a solution in my country . ;-) Yes, sometimes it works here too; it depends on your face and the customs officer mood... but more frequently on how much you offer him/her.
              Cheers
              Doug




              ________________________________
              From: johandaelemans <johandaelemans@...>
              To: Small4-strokeEngines@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Fri, January 1, 2010 7:47:06 PM
              Subject: [Small4-strokeEngines] Re: CITROEN VISA ENGINE




              Doug,

              Monsieur Citroen has optimized the Visa engine for a car…
              There is a small difference. If you want to run your engine
              in the 5000 to 6500 range, you better use a cam that gives the best torque as close as possible.
              In this case the camshaft of the 435cc is best.

              I understand that import is very expensive.
              Sending it over as a gift is a solution in my country . ;-) ..

              Johan







              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Douglas Russell-White
              Johan, I don t understand how you arrive to the 6340 rpm figure in your formula: Rpm= power x 9549 = 65 x 9549 = 620685 = 6340 rpm. Also Torque x
              Message 6 of 27 , Jan 1, 2010
                Johan, I don't understand how you arrive to the 6340 rpm figure in your formula:
                Rpm= power x 9549 = 65 x 9549 = 620685 = 6340 rpm.
                Also "Torque x 1,36 72 x 1,36 97,92" - ??What does it mean?
                It seems typewriting the formulas gets them a bit distorted

                In the power formula should I feed the torque figure as per the standard Visa? Do you know what it is?

                Cheers
                Doug





                ________________________________
                From: johandaelemans <johandaelemans@...>
                To: Small4-strokeEngines@yahoogroups.com
                Sent: Fri, January 1, 2010 7:33:55 PM
                Subject: [Small4-strokeEngines] Re: CITROEN VISA ENGINE




                Hi Régis,

                As you probably now already, power comes from torque and revolutions/ min.
                We know also that with today's technology we can get 85 to 95 Nm out of a 1000cc 4-stroke engine with a 2 valve head. (normal aspirated engine)
                For the Visa engine with the 800cc kit is this 90Nm x 0,8 = 72 Nm

                The formula of power is
                Power (kW) = rpm x torque / 9549 or Power (hp) = rpm x torque x 1,36 / 9549

                As torque is more or less a fixed number (normal aspirated engine) we need to play with the engine speed to get your 65 hp.

                Rpm= power x 9549 = 65 x 9549 = 620685 = 6340 rpm.
                Torque x 1,36 72 x 1,36 97,92

                How can we get this power and a reliable engine?
                - new custom lightweight crank and rods,
                - new custom pistons,
                - new retimed camshaft,
                - cleaned up head & tuned intake trumpets and airbox
                - dual digital management system (ignition and injection)

                Don't be mad if you get 62 or 68 hp…Nobody can tell for sure without building the engine.
                In the worst case, you could speed up the engine a few 100 revolutions more..

                Johan







                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • johandaelemans
                Haha, yes , I write it in one line, (the underscore was gone + disordered…) RPM= Power * 9549 / (Torque * 1,36) RPM= 65*9549 / (72*1,36) RPM= 620685 /
                Message 7 of 27 , Jan 1, 2010
                  Haha, yes ,

                  I write it in one line, (the underscore was gone + disordered…)

                  RPM= Power * 9549 / (Torque * 1,36)

                  RPM= 65*9549 / (72*1,36)

                  RPM= 620685 / 97,92

                  RPM= 6340

                  Johan
                • Douglas Russell-White
                  Sorry to bother you again, but where did you get the 72 for the torque? Some specs? Do you have the torque number for the standard 652cc Visa? D.
                  Message 8 of 27 , Jan 1, 2010
                    Sorry to bother you again, but where did you get the 72 for the torque? Some specs? Do you have the torque number for the standard 652cc Visa?
                    D.




                    ________________________________
                    From: johandaelemans <johandaelemans@...>
                    To: Small4-strokeEngines@yahoogroups.com
                    Sent: Fri, January 1, 2010 9:01:13 PM
                    Subject: [Small4-strokeEngines] Re: CITROEN VISA ENGINE




                    Haha, yes ,

                    I write it in one line, (the underscore was gone + disordered…)

                    RPM= Power * 9549 / (Torque * 1,36)

                    RPM= 65*9549 / (72*1,36)

                    RPM= 620685 / 97,92

                    RPM= 6340

                    Johan







                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • Peter Walker
                    Hello Unless there is data showing different specs id expect the cams would be identical Any difference in revs that peak torque and Hp are show will be down
                    Message 9 of 27 , Jan 1, 2010
                      Hello
                      Unless there is data showing different specs id expect the cams would be identical Any difference in revs that peak torque and Hp are show will be down to the cam acting larger in a smaller engine
                      Declaring an engine as a gift only reduces taxes. By far the biggest cost is documentation and fees unless you air freight it.  However declaring it an engine and used will likely make that option unuseable
                      Peter
                       
                      --- On Sat, 1/2/10, johandaelemans <johandaelemans@...> wrote:

                      From: johandaelemans <johandaelemans@...>
                      Subject: [Small4-strokeEngines] Re: CITROEN VISA ENGINE
                      To: Small4-strokeEngines@yahoogroups.com
                      Date: Saturday, January 2, 2010, 9:47 AM







                       













                      Doug,



                      Monsieur Citroen has optimized the Visa engine for a car…

                      There is a small difference. If you want to run your engine

                      in the 5000 to 6500 range, you better use a cam that gives the best torque as close as possible.

                      In this case the camshaft of the 435cc is best.



                      I understand that import is very expensive.

                      Sending it over as a gift is a solution in my country . ;-) .



                      Johan






















                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • johandaelemans
                      Doug, The torque of an unmodified 652cc Visa is 51 Nm (Specific torque 78.22 Nm/litre) The expected torque of the modified 800cc Visa is 72 Nm (Specific
                      Message 10 of 27 , Jan 2, 2010
                        Doug,

                        The torque of an unmodified 652cc Visa is 51 Nm (Specific torque 78.22 Nm/litre)
                        The expected torque of the modified 800cc Visa is 72 Nm (Specific torque 90 Nm/litre)



                        Peter,

                        There are indeed different specs in engine speed for the max torque figures.
                        Visa 652 cc :Maximum torque 51.0 Nm (38 ft•lb) @ 3500 rpm
                        2CV 435 cc : Maximum torque 28.0 Nm (21 ft•lb) @ 4000 rpm
                        This indicates a different camshaft.

                        Next figures from Daf are showing the importance of the use of the best camshaft:

                        Daf33 : Maximum torque 57.0 Nm (42 ft•lb) @ 2700 rpm / max power 32 hp
                        Daf44 : Maximum torque 71.0 Nm (52 ft•lb) @ 2400 rpm / max power 34 hp

                        However, @ 3000 rpm the power output is identical (the Daf33 is a 746cc engine and the Daf44 is a 844cc engine !!)
                        In this case, moving the cam-timing 300 rpm higher is better than 100cc more displacement.

                        Johan
                      • Peter Walker
                        Hello  Larger displacement engines move MORE air so the same lift and duration will result in the peak torque moving lower in the rev range The smaller
                        Message 11 of 27 , Jan 2, 2010
                          Hello
                           Larger displacement engines move MORE air so the same lift and duration will result in the peak torque moving lower in the rev range
                          The smaller engines torque output seems very low in relation to the difference in capacity Id expect the frictional and cooling fan will be drawing a higher percentage of the gross output but the increase in rated rpm at peak is about what I would expect
                          Peter


                          --- On Sat, 1/2/10, johandaelemans <johandaelemans@...> wrote:

                          From: johandaelemans <johandaelemans@...>
                          Subject: [Small4-strokeEngines] Re: CITROEN VISA ENGINE
                          To: Small4-strokeEngines@yahoogroups.com
                          Date: Saturday, January 2, 2010, 7:27 PM







                           













                          Doug,



                          The torque of an unmodified 652cc Visa is 51 Nm (Specific torque 78.22 Nm/litre)

                          The expected torque of the modified 800cc Visa is 72 Nm (Specific torque 90 Nm/litre)



                          Peter,



                          There are indeed different specs in engine speed for the max torque figures.

                          Visa 652 cc :Maximum torque 51.0 Nm (38 ft•lb) @ 3500 rpm

                          2CV 435 cc : Maximum torque 28.0 Nm (21 ft•lb) @ 4000 rpm

                          This indicates a different camshaft.



                          Next figures from Daf are showing the importance of the use of the best camshaft:



                          Daf33 : Maximum torque 57.0 Nm (42 ft•lb) @ 2700 rpm / max power 32 hp

                          Daf44 : Maximum torque 71.0 Nm (52 ft•lb) @ 2400 rpm / max power 34 hp



                          However, @ 3000 rpm the power output is identical (the Daf33 is a 746cc engine and the Daf44 is a 844cc engine !!)

                          In this case, moving the cam-timing 300 rpm higher is better than 100cc more displacement.



                          Johan






















                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • Douglas Russell-White
                          Thanks Peter. You are right about costs. I don t understand your comment on the cams, would you please expand it? Doug ________________________________ From:
                          Message 12 of 27 , Jan 2, 2010
                            Thanks Peter. You are right about costs. I don't understand your comment on the cams, would you please expand it?
                            Doug




                            ________________________________
                            From: Peter Walker <peterwalker58@...>
                            To: Small4-strokeEngines@yahoogroups.com
                            Sent: Fri, January 1, 2010 11:51:18 PM
                            Subject: Re: [Small4-strokeEngines] Re: CITROEN VISA ENGINE


                            Hello
                            Unless there is data showing different specs id expect the cams would be identical Any difference in revs that peak torque and Hp are show will be down to the cam acting larger in a smaller engine
                            Declaring an engine as a gift only reduces taxes. By far the biggest cost is documentation and fees unless you air freight it. However declaring it an engine and used will likely make that option unuseable
                            Peter

                            --- On Sat, 1/2/10, johandaelemans <johandaelemans@ yahoo.ca> wrote:

                            From: johandaelemans <johandaelemans@ yahoo.ca>
                            Subject: [Small4-strokeEngin es] Re: CITROEN VISA ENGINE
                            To: Small4-strokeEngine s@yahoogroups. com
                            Date: Saturday, January 2, 2010, 9:47 AM



                            Doug,

                            Monsieur Citroen has optimized the Visa engine for a car…

                            There is a small difference. If you want to run your engine

                            in the 5000 to 6500 range, you better use a cam that gives the best torque as close as possible.

                            In this case the camshaft of the 435cc is best.

                            I understand that import is very expensive.

                            Sending it over as a gift is a solution in my country . ;-) .

                            Johan

                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          • Douglas Russell-White
                            Interesting, thanks. This means that all other things being equal, I d get 42 HP at 5782 rpm. Now, how to reach this figure? Cams height and shape? Higher
                            Message 13 of 27 , Jan 2, 2010
                              Interesting, thanks. This means that all other things being equal, I'd get 42 HP at 5782 rpm. Now, how to reach this figure? Cams height and shape? Higher compression, say 10:1? Polished ducts? The best carb available? Forget about exotic electronic firing, unless it is mandatory (On the other hand, adapting a traditional braker to the Visa would be risky since the camsahft does not protrude out of the case, it requires a mod including seals, etc..).
                              Doug




                              ________________________________
                              From: johandaelemans <johandaelemans@...>
                              To: Small4-strokeEngines@yahoogroups.com
                              Sent: Sat, January 2, 2010 5:27:15 AM
                              Subject: [Small4-strokeEngines] Re: CITROEN VISA ENGINE




                              Doug,

                              The torque of an unmodified 652cc Visa is 51 Nm (Specific torque 78.22 Nm/litre)
                              The expected torque of the modified 800cc Visa is 72 Nm (Specific torque 90 Nm/litre)

                              Peter,

                              There are indeed different specs in engine speed for the max torque figures.
                              Visa 652 cc :Maximum torque 51.0 Nm (38 ft•lb) @ 3500 rpm
                              2CV 435 cc : Maximum torque 28.0 Nm (21 ft•lb) @ 4000 rpm
                              This indicates a different camshaft.

                              Next figures from Daf are showing the importance of the use of the best camshaft:

                              Daf33 : Maximum torque 57.0 Nm (42 ft•lb) @ 2700 rpm / max power 32 hp
                              Daf44 : Maximum torque 71.0 Nm (52 ft•lb) @ 2400 rpm / max power 34 hp

                              However, @ 3000 rpm the power output is identical (the Daf33 is a 746cc engine and the Daf44 is a 844cc engine !!)
                              In this case, moving the cam-timing 300 rpm higher is better than 100cc more displacement.

                              Johan







                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            • johandaelemans
                              Doug, Correct. You want 42 hp @ 5782 rpm? First, let me explain something very important – ignition . If you don t want to use a programmable digital system
                              Message 14 of 27 , Jan 2, 2010
                                Doug,

                                Correct. You want 42 hp @ 5782 rpm?

                                First, let me explain something very important – "ignition".
                                If you don't want to use a programmable digital system it's going to be difficult.
                                From idle up to maximum torque (full throttle), the ignition is moving from -30° TDP up to -8° TDP as the piston is aspiring from 40% up to 70% of his displacement.
                                From max. torque up to max power, the piston is aspiring from 70% down to 55% of his displacement.
                                Here we could use more advance but this is only possible with digital systems.This is also the reason why more and more industrial engines use these systems.

                                I'm sorry to say but without a digital programmable system it's impossible to build a powerful engine.

                                Moving the max torque close to the max rpm of the engine could be a solution but I never tried it. I could do a simulation…but I expect the power curve a bit like a 2-stroke curve.

                                Johan

                                Ps; Figures could vary from one engine to an other.
                              • johandaelemans
                                Peter, Larger displacement engines move MORE air so the same lift and duration will result in the peak torque moving lower in the rev range Where on earth
                                Message 15 of 27 , Jan 2, 2010
                                  Peter,

                                  "Larger displacement engines move MORE air so the same lift and duration will result in the peak
                                  torque moving lower in the rev range"

                                  Where on earth did you find that?
                                  You are actually saying that if you increase displacement you lose power because the torque peak
                                  is moving lower in the rev range……

                                  Peter, I suggest you read this – not a word about displacement
                                  http://www.boosttown.com/engine/camshaft_timing.php
                                • Douglas Russell-White
                                  QSL, thanks. I ll do some research. Doug ________________________________ From: johandaelemans To:
                                  Message 16 of 27 , Jan 2, 2010
                                    QSL, thanks. I'll do some research.
                                    Doug




                                    ________________________________
                                    From: johandaelemans <johandaelemans@...>
                                    To: Small4-strokeEngines@yahoogroups.com
                                    Sent: Sat, January 2, 2010 11:53:45 AM
                                    Subject: [Small4-strokeEngines] Re: CITROEN VISA ENGINE




                                    Doug,

                                    Correct. You want 42 hp @ 5782 rpm?

                                    First, let me explain something very important – "ignition".
                                    If you don't want to use a programmable digital system it's going to be difficult.
                                    From idle up to maximum torque (full throttle), the ignition is moving from -30° TDP up to -8° TDP as the piston is aspiring from 40% up to 70% of his displacement.
                                    From max. torque up to max power, the piston is aspiring from 70% down to 55% of his displacement.
                                    Here we could use more advance but this is only possible with digital systems.This is also the reason why more and more industrial engines use these systems.

                                    I'm sorry to say but without a digital programmable system it's impossible to build a powerful engine.

                                    Moving the max torque close to the max rpm of the engine could be a solution but I never tried it. I could do a simulation…but I expect the power curve a bit like a 2-stroke curve.

                                    Johan

                                    Ps; Figures could vary from one engine to an other.







                                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  • Peter Walker
                                    Hello Johan Interesting article. But has little to do with cam performance and displacement For the sake of this discussion lets assume the following Same
                                    Message 17 of 27 , Jan 2, 2010
                                      Hello Johan
                                      Interesting article. But has little to do with cam performance and displacement
                                      For the sake of this discussion lets assume the following
                                      Same engine family
                                      Same cylinder head arrangement Port and valve dimension
                                      Same compression ratio
                                      Correct ignition timing anf mixture
                                      Same bore
                                      One a long stroke 600CC one a short stroke 300cc
                                      Same cam grind lift duration
                                      No tuning of intake and exhaust
                                      As you would know an enigine is an air pump The more air (and fuel) the engine can pump the more power it can make Simple mechanics However there are limits to fully filling a cylinder One is restriction. flow limiting by the capacity of the port and valve opening The other is reversion where air moves back past the intake valve that is sti;; open ABDC(after bottom dead centre) Simple?
                                      Reversion is the one that will affect the revs at which a cylinder reaches its peak volume which will be the point of peak torque. As the small engine in this example has half the volume twice the percentage of air will flow back past the partially open valve similar flow Same volume but from a smaller total Still with me?
                                      At a certain point airflow in and reversion reach a balance that gives highest fill  On the larger 600cc engine  Intake restriction will increase faster than on the small 300cc engine
                                      (Flow per second over time)
                                      Reversion goes the other way fixed flow from a varying volume  The variable is time or revs
                                      Still here
                                      Large engine flow in drops as revs rise reversion also drops but as a percentage  of total flow
                                      Small engine same revs stilol has to reach the same  fill as the inflow hasnt dropped enought to balance thr reversion
                                      So smaller engine of the same spec will make its peak torque at a higher rev and also make hp at a higher rev
                                      So a bigger engine see the cam as smaller
                                      I can look up some engines with different capacities to prove my point if required
                                      Peter

                                      --- On Sun, 1/3/10, johandaelemans <johandaelemans@...> wrote:

                                      From: johandaelemans <johandaelemans@...>
                                      Subject: [Small4-strokeEngines] Re: CITROEN VISA ENGINE
                                      To: Small4-strokeEngines@yahoogroups.com
                                      Date: Sunday, January 3, 2010, 1:59 AM







                                       













                                      Peter,



                                      "Larger displacement engines move MORE air so the same lift and duration will result in the peak

                                      torque moving lower in the rev range"



                                      Where on earth did you find that?

                                      You are actually saying that if you increase displacement you lose power because the torque peak

                                      is moving lower in the rev range……



                                      Peter, I suggest you read this – not a word about displacement

                                      http://www.boosttow n.com/engine/ camshaft_ timing.php






















                                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                    • johandaelemans
                                      Peter, Nice written but I don t buy it. ... Please do so, and if possible, a site or page somewhere on the internet with a good explanation would help too. I
                                      Message 18 of 27 , Jan 2, 2010
                                        Peter,

                                        Nice written but I don't buy it.

                                        ----So a bigger engine see the cam as smaller ---- ????
                                        ----I can look up some engines with different capacities to prove my point if required ----

                                        Please do so, and if possible, a site or page somewhere on the internet with a good explanation would help too.
                                        I know that you are never too old to learn
                                        (even after 30 years of building engines and racecars)

                                        Just being curious,
                                        What do you read out of the next specs:

                                        1969 Citroën Ami 8 Bore × stroke 74.00 mm × 70.00 mm 602 cc
                                        Maximum power 32.4 PS (32.0 bhp) (23.9 kW) @ 5750
                                        Maximum torque 41.0 Nm (30 ft•lb) (4.2 kgm) @ 4000

                                        1967 Citroën Dyane 6 Bore × stroke 74.00 mm × 70.00 mm 602 cc
                                        Maximum power 32.4 PS (32.0 bhp) (23.9 kW) @ 5750 rpm
                                        Maximum torque 42.0 Nm (31 ft•lb) (4.3 kgm) @ 3500 rpm

                                        1961 Citroën Ami 6 Bore × stroke 74.00 mm × 70.00 mm 602 cc
                                        Maximum power 26.4 PS (26.0 bhp) (19.4 kW) @ 4750 rpm
                                        Maximum torque 42.0 Nm (31 ft•lb) (4.3 kgm) @ 3000 rpm

                                        Still convinced that they are using the same camshafts?

                                        Johan
                                      • Peter Walker
                                        Hello all else the same  same carbs compression exhaust vale sizes? same cooling arrangement?  the ONLY difference is a cam? This is from a Holden (GM
                                        Message 19 of 27 , Jan 2, 2010
                                          Hello
                                          all else the same
                                           same carbs compression exhaust vale sizes? same cooling arrangement?
                                           the ONLY difference is a cam?
                                          This is from a Holden (GM Australia Spec page)
                                          2.65 161 Engine:
                                          Capacity: 2640cc 161 cubic inches (2.640
                                          litres) Type: Conventional, watercooled four
                                          stroke, reciprocating piston type with
                                          6 cylindersConfiguration: Front mounted, longitudinal,
                                          inlineHead: Pushrod and rocker actuated ohv
                                          with two valves per cylinderFuel System: Bendix-Stromberg single
                                          barrel downdraft type carburettorBore and Stroke: 3.375 x 3.00 inches
                                          (85.7 x 76.2mm)Power: 114bhp (85kw) at 4400rpmTorque: 157lb-ft (213Nm) at 2000rpmCompression Ratio: 9.2:1
                                          3.05 186 Engine:
                                          Capacity: 3050cc 186 cubic inches (3.05
                                          litres) Type: Conventional, watercooled four
                                          stroke, reciprocating piston type with
                                          6 cylindersConfiguration: Front mounted, longitudinal,
                                          inlineHead: Pushrod and rocker actuated ohv
                                          with two valves per cylinderFuel System: Bendix-Stromberg single
                                          barrel downdraft type carburettorBore and Stroke: 3.625 x 3.00 inches
                                          (92.1 x 76.2mm)Power: 130bhp (97kw) at 4400rpmTorque: 181lb-ft (245Nm) at 1600rpmCompression Ratio: 9.2:1
                                          Yes SAME cam manifolds compression ratio. ONLY difference is the bore
                                          I supplied spares for this era of cars
                                          http://www.uniquecarsandparts.com.au/holden_HG_technical_specifications.htm
                                          I can easily find more
                                          Peter

                                          --- On Sun, 1/3/10, johandaelemans <johandaelemans@...> wrote:

                                          From: johandaelemans <johandaelemans@...>
                                          Subject: [Small4-strokeEngines] Re: CITROEN VISA ENGINE
                                          To: Small4-strokeEngines@yahoogroups.com
                                          Date: Sunday, January 3, 2010, 10:28 AM







                                           













                                          Peter,



                                          Nice written but I don't buy it.



                                          ----So a bigger engine see the cam as smaller ---- ????

                                          ----I can look up some engines with different capacities to prove my point if required ----



                                          Please do so, and if possible, a site or page somewhere on the internet with a good explanation would help too.

                                          I know that you are never too old to learn

                                          (even after 30 years of building engines and racecars)



                                          Just being curious,

                                          What do you read out of the next specs:



                                          1969 Citroën Ami 8 Bore × stroke 74.00 mm × 70.00 mm 602 cc

                                          Maximum power 32.4 PS (32.0 bhp) (23.9 kW) @ 5750

                                          Maximum torque 41.0 Nm (30 ft•lb) (4.2 kgm) @ 4000



                                          1967 Citroën Dyane 6 Bore × stroke 74.00 mm × 70.00 mm 602 cc

                                          Maximum power 32.4 PS (32.0 bhp) (23.9 kW) @ 5750 rpm

                                          Maximum torque 42.0 Nm (31 ft•lb) (4.3 kgm) @ 3500 rpm



                                          1961 Citroën Ami 6 Bore × stroke 74.00 mm × 70.00 mm 602 cc

                                          Maximum power 26.4 PS (26.0 bhp) (19.4 kW) @ 4750 rpm

                                          Maximum torque 42.0 Nm (31 ft•lb) (4.3 kgm) @ 3000 rpm



                                          Still convinced that they are using the same camshafts?



                                          Johan






















                                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                        Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.