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Re: [Small4-strokeEngines] Briggs Problem

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  • kirby thompson
    Hi  You might want to use a little air pressure in the fuel line back to the gas tank.  That will usually blow any dirt or other plug out.  I had several
    Message 1 of 11 , Oct 1 9:18 AM
      Hi  You might want to use a little air pressure in the fuel line back to the gas tank.  That will usually blow any dirt or other plug out.  I had several so-called mechanics look at my 10hp generator, and all told me the carb was no good.  They dumped my gas out and washed the tank, then same problem, not enough fuel to keep the engine running.  A little shot of air from my compressor was all it needed.

      --- On Tue, 9/30/08, r-m-ohler@... <r-m-ohler@...> wrote:
      From: r-m-ohler@... <r-m-ohler@...>
      Subject: Re: [Small4-strokeEngines] Briggs Problem
      To: Small4-strokeEngines@yahoogroups.com
      Date: Tuesday, September 30, 2008, 9:38 PM











      The pump is supposed to flow more fuel than the engine can use. This fills

      the sump to an overflowing state where it just spills over into the main

      tank area. This is how the design prevents mixture changes with fuel level

      in the tank. The fuel pickup screens are real fine - are you certain they

      are actually flowing good? The tubes too? If they are, possibly the fuel

      pump spring has gotten damaged or lost it's proper tension. It does still

      have the special protector washer with it right? Too much tension(someone

      stretching it a bit thinking it'll work better) or too little - this is

      not nearly as common a problem. You did make sure that the tank is clean

      so that junk is not plugging the pickup screen while running? It can fall

      off when the engine is shut down and not show on the screen when pulled.

      Oh, some kits have extra gaskets. I'm pretty sure I recall that there is

      not supposed to be one between the diaphram and the main carb body. It

      should only take one gasket to seal the cover to the diaphram. If the

      cover was over tightend there could be vacuum leakage. Make sure the cover

      gasket surface is flat before it is installed

      Best,

      Ron O



      > I have a 3.5hp Briggs that came on a Sears rototiller. The engine will

      > run at idle but cannot pump enough fuel to keep running at normal

      > throttle settings. I have inspected the fuel pickup and the main jet

      > and see no blockages or varnishes and I cleaned them with Gumout

      > anyway. If the the small fuel bin that the main jet sits in is full the

      > engine runs at full throttle just fine but the pump won't fill it fast

      > enough to keep it running. I have replaced all the gaskets, including

      > the flapper valve in the pump circuit. What am I missing?

      >

      > Art

      >

      >





























      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Arthur Thompson
      Thanks for the advice everyone. I took the thing apart again: . The pump spring and special washer were where they have always been but I have no way
      Message 2 of 11 , Oct 1 1:28 PM
        Thanks for the advice everyone. I took the thing apart again:

        . The pump spring and special washer were where they have always
        been but I have no way to know if the tension is correct.

        . Removed the pickup tube with the screen filter and sprayed both
        ends with Gumout and air dried from both ends. No contamination I can see
        under bright light and magnifying glass and it free flows in both
        directions.

        . Flushed, wiped and air dried the fuel tank

        . Reassembled carb and tested pump. It seals when I suck on the
        pickup tube and free flows when I blow into the pickup tube.

        . Put in new gas and started the engine. SAME BLOODY PROBLEM!

        Sorry for shouting but this one just doesn't make sense. Runs great if the
        upper fuel sump is full but won't pump enough fuel from the tank up to the
        sump to run faster than idle.

        Question: Is there something other than manifold vacuum that pulses the fuel
        pump? I see an aluminum tube coming from the crank case back into the intake
        but assumed that was the crankcase breather venting fumes to the intake to
        be burned.



        Arthur Thompson

        FlyDiver, llc

        360.490.6268

        www.FlyDiver.com

        Verner Engine Sales & Service

        From: Small4-strokeEngines@yahoogroups.com
        [mailto:Small4-strokeEngines@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of kirby thompson
        Sent: Wednesday, October 01, 2008 9:19 AM
        To: Small4-strokeEngines@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: Re: [Small4-strokeEngines] Briggs Problem



        Hi You might want to use a little air pressure in the fuel line back to the
        gas tank. That will usually blow any dirt or other plug out. I had several
        so-called mechanics look at my 10hp generator, and all told me the carb was
        no good. They dumped my gas out and washed the tank, then same problem, not
        enough fuel to keep the engine running. A little shot of air from my
        compressor was all it needed.

        --- On Tue, 9/30/08, r-m-ohler@... <mailto:r-m-ohler%40triton.net>
        <r-m-ohler@... <mailto:r-m-ohler%40triton.net> > wrote:
        From: r-m-ohler@... <mailto:r-m-ohler%40triton.net>
        <r-m-ohler@... <mailto:r-m-ohler%40triton.net> >
        Subject: Re: [Small4-strokeEngines] Briggs Problem
        To: Small4-strokeEngines@yahoogroups.com
        <mailto:Small4-strokeEngines%40yahoogroups.com>
        Date: Tuesday, September 30, 2008, 9:38 PM

        The pump is supposed to flow more fuel than the engine can use. This fills

        the sump to an overflowing state where it just spills over into the main

        tank area. This is how the design prevents mixture changes with fuel level

        in the tank. The fuel pickup screens are real fine - are you certain they

        are actually flowing good? The tubes too? If they are, possibly the fuel

        pump spring has gotten damaged or lost it's proper tension. It does still

        have the special protector washer with it right? Too much tension(someone

        stretching it a bit thinking it'll work better) or too little - this is

        not nearly as common a problem. You did make sure that the tank is clean

        so that junk is not plugging the pickup screen while running? It can fall

        off when the engine is shut down and not show on the screen when pulled.

        Oh, some kits have extra gaskets. I'm pretty sure I recall that there is

        not supposed to be one between the diaphram and the main carb body. It

        should only take one gasket to seal the cover to the diaphram. If the

        cover was over tightend there could be vacuum leakage. Make sure the cover

        gasket surface is flat before it is installed

        Best,

        Ron O

        > I have a 3.5hp Briggs that came on a Sears rototiller. The engine will

        > run at idle but cannot pump enough fuel to keep running at normal

        > throttle settings. I have inspected the fuel pickup and the main jet

        > and see no blockages or varnishes and I cleaned them with Gumout

        > anyway. If the the small fuel bin that the main jet sits in is full the

        > engine runs at full throttle just fine but the pump won't fill it fast

        > enough to keep it running. I have replaced all the gaskets, including

        > the flapper valve in the pump circuit. What am I missing?

        >

        > Art

        >

        >











        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • r-m-ohler@triton.net
        Hi, I know it can be frustrating. I rebuilt a carb on a generator 3 years ago. Spent nearly $18. for the kit. It too is a Briggs. 3 1/2hp lawn mower motor
        Message 3 of 11 , Oct 1 8:56 PM
          Hi,
          I know it can be frustrating. I rebuilt a carb on a generator 3 years ago.
          Spent nearly $18. for the kit. It too is a Briggs. 3 1/2hp lawn mower
          motor transplant. Automatic choke. It ran worse after I did the work.
          Redid the work a couple times. Still ran like crap. I knew the problem was
          the new kit. I wasn't about to buy another one. I pulled a carb off of a
          junk mower at our recycling center, swapped out the diaphram assy and it
          runs fine.
          I wasn't thinking right when I assumed that you had an old pulse jet.
          Should have asked. They had a manual slide type choke. These had a side
          cover held on with 5? screws. Under it is the pump diaphram. The covers
          warp when the end screws are tightened too hard. There is a spec for the
          pump spring height. Sorry I don't know what it is anymore. Might be on the
          web somewhere. The new carbs with an automatic choke are a bit more
          difficult to work with but still need flat parts and a good spring assy.
          Yes, only the suction pulse operates the diaphram and you are correct
          about the crankcase breather tube. Did you check if the port through the
          carb from the pump chamber to the carb bore is open and clean?
          Best,
          Ron O

          > Thanks for the advice everyone. I took the thing apart again:
          >
          > . The pump spring and special washer were where they have always
          > been but I have no way to know if the tension is correct.
          >
          > . Removed the pickup tube with the screen filter and sprayed both
          > ends with Gumout and air dried from both ends. No contamination I can see
          > under bright light and magnifying glass and it free flows in both
          > directions.
          >
          > . Flushed, wiped and air dried the fuel tank
          >
          > . Reassembled carb and tested pump. It seals when I suck on the
          > pickup tube and free flows when I blow into the pickup tube.
          >
          > . Put in new gas and started the engine. SAME BLOODY PROBLEM!
          >
          > Sorry for shouting but this one just doesn't make sense. Runs great if the
          > upper fuel sump is full but won't pump enough fuel from the tank up to the
          > sump to run faster than idle.
          >
          > Question: Is there something other than manifold vacuum that pulses the
          > fuel
          > pump? I see an aluminum tube coming from the crank case back into the
          > intake
          > but assumed that was the crankcase breather venting fumes to the intake to
          > be burned.
          >
          >
          >
          > Arthur Thompson
          >
          > FlyDiver, llc
          >
          > 360.490.6268
          >
          > www.FlyDiver.com
          >
          > Verner Engine Sales & Service
          >
          > From: Small4-strokeEngines@yahoogroups.com
          > [mailto:Small4-strokeEngines@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of kirby thompson
          > Sent: Wednesday, October 01, 2008 9:19 AM
          > To: Small4-strokeEngines@yahoogroups.com
          > Subject: Re: [Small4-strokeEngines] Briggs Problem
          >
          >
          >
          > Hi You might want to use a little air pressure in the fuel line back to
          > the
          > gas tank. That will usually blow any dirt or other plug out. I had
          > several
          > so-called mechanics look at my 10hp generator, and all told me the carb
          > was
          > no good. They dumped my gas out and washed the tank, then same problem,
          > not
          > enough fuel to keep the engine running. A little shot of air from my
          > compressor was all it needed.
          >
          > --- On Tue, 9/30/08, r-m-ohler@... <mailto:r-m-ohler%40triton.net>
          > <r-m-ohler@... <mailto:r-m-ohler%40triton.net> > wrote:
          > From: r-m-ohler@... <mailto:r-m-ohler%40triton.net>
          > <r-m-ohler@... <mailto:r-m-ohler%40triton.net> >
          > Subject: Re: [Small4-strokeEngines] Briggs Problem
          > To: Small4-strokeEngines@yahoogroups.com
          > <mailto:Small4-strokeEngines%40yahoogroups.com>
          > Date: Tuesday, September 30, 2008, 9:38 PM
          >
          > The pump is supposed to flow more fuel than the engine can use. This fills
          >
          > the sump to an overflowing state where it just spills over into the main
          >
          > tank area. This is how the design prevents mixture changes with fuel level
          >
          > in the tank. The fuel pickup screens are real fine - are you certain they
          >
          > are actually flowing good? The tubes too? If they are, possibly the fuel
          >
          > pump spring has gotten damaged or lost it's proper tension. It does still
          >
          > have the special protector washer with it right? Too much tension(someone
          >
          > stretching it a bit thinking it'll work better) or too little - this is
          >
          > not nearly as common a problem. You did make sure that the tank is clean
          >
          > so that junk is not plugging the pickup screen while running? It can fall
          >
          > off when the engine is shut down and not show on the screen when pulled.
          >
          > Oh, some kits have extra gaskets. I'm pretty sure I recall that there is
          >
          > not supposed to be one between the diaphram and the main carb body. It
          >
          > should only take one gasket to seal the cover to the diaphram. If the
          >
          > cover was over tightend there could be vacuum leakage. Make sure the cover
          >
          > gasket surface is flat before it is installed
          >
          > Best,
          >
          > Ron O
          >
          >> I have a 3.5hp Briggs that came on a Sears rototiller. The engine will
          >
          >> run at idle but cannot pump enough fuel to keep running at normal
          >
          >> throttle settings. I have inspected the fuel pickup and the main jet
          >
          >> and see no blockages or varnishes and I cleaned them with Gumout
          >
          >> anyway. If the the small fuel bin that the main jet sits in is full the
          >
          >> engine runs at full throttle just fine but the pump won't fill it fast
          >
          >> enough to keep it running. I have replaced all the gaskets, including
          >
          >> the flapper valve in the pump circuit. What am I missing?
          >
          >>
          >
          >> Art
          >
          >>
          >
          >>
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
          >
        • Arthur Thompson
          I cleaned everything I could get to with Gumout and blew out all the chambers and holes. All new gaskets but the spring and cover are original. The rototiller
          Message 4 of 11 , Oct 2 5:24 AM
            I cleaned everything I could get to with Gumout and blew out all the
            chambers and holes. All new gaskets but the spring and cover are original.
            The rototiller doesn't have much life left in it so it probably isn't worth
            any more effort unless I can find a replacement carb cheap.



            I appreciate all the help,



            Arthur Thompson

            FlyDiver, llc

            360.490.6268

            www.FlyDiver.com

            Verner Engine Sales & Service

            From: Small4-strokeEngines@yahoogroups.com
            [mailto:Small4-strokeEngines@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
            r-m-ohler@...
            Sent: Wednesday, October 01, 2008 8:56 PM
            To: Small4-strokeEngines@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: RE: [Small4-strokeEngines] Briggs Problem



            Hi,
            I know it can be frustrating. I rebuilt a carb on a generator 3 years ago.
            Spent nearly $18. for the kit. It too is a Briggs. 3 1/2hp lawn mower
            motor transplant. Automatic choke. It ran worse after I did the work.
            Redid the work a couple times. Still ran like crap. I knew the problem was
            the new kit. I wasn't about to buy another one. I pulled a carb off of a
            junk mower at our recycling center, swapped out the diaphram assy and it
            runs fine.
            I wasn't thinking right when I assumed that you had an old pulse jet.
            Should have asked. They had a manual slide type choke. These had a side
            cover held on with 5? screws. Under it is the pump diaphram. The covers
            warp when the end screws are tightened too hard. There is a spec for the
            pump spring height. Sorry I don't know what it is anymore. Might be on the
            web somewhere. The new carbs with an automatic choke are a bit more
            difficult to work with but still need flat parts and a good spring assy.
            Yes, only the suction pulse operates the diaphram and you are correct
            about the crankcase breather tube. Did you check if the port through the
            carb from the pump chamber to the carb bore is open and clean?
            Best,
            Ron O

            > Thanks for the advice everyone. I took the thing apart again:
            >
            > . The pump spring and special washer were where they have always
            > been but I have no way to know if the tension is correct.
            >
            > . Removed the pickup tube with the screen filter and sprayed both
            > ends with Gumout and air dried from both ends. No contamination I can see
            > under bright light and magnifying glass and it free flows in both
            > directions.
            >
            > . Flushed, wiped and air dried the fuel tank
            >
            > . Reassembled carb and tested pump. It seals when I suck on the
            > pickup tube and free flows when I blow into the pickup tube.
            >
            > . Put in new gas and started the engine. SAME BLOODY PROBLEM!
            >
            > Sorry for shouting but this one just doesn't make sense. Runs great if the
            > upper fuel sump is full but won't pump enough fuel from the tank up to the
            > sump to run faster than idle.
            >
            > Question: Is there something other than manifold vacuum that pulses the
            > fuel
            > pump? I see an aluminum tube coming from the crank case back into the
            > intake
            > but assumed that was the crankcase breather venting fumes to the intake to
            > be burned.
            >
            >
            >
            > Arthur Thompson
            >
            > FlyDiver, llc
            >
            > 360.490.6268
            >
            > www.FlyDiver.com
            >
            > Verner Engine Sales & Service
            >
            > From: Small4-strokeEngines@yahoogroups.com
            <mailto:Small4-strokeEngines%40yahoogroups.com>
            > [mailto:Small4-strokeEngines@yahoogroups.com
            <mailto:Small4-strokeEngines%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of kirby
            thompson
            > Sent: Wednesday, October 01, 2008 9:19 AM
            > To: Small4-strokeEngines@yahoogroups.com
            <mailto:Small4-strokeEngines%40yahoogroups.com>
            > Subject: Re: [Small4-strokeEngines] Briggs Problem
            >
            >
            >
            > Hi You might want to use a little air pressure in the fuel line back to
            > the
            > gas tank. That will usually blow any dirt or other plug out. I had
            > several
            > so-called mechanics look at my 10hp generator, and all told me the carb
            > was
            > no good. They dumped my gas out and washed the tank, then same problem,
            > not
            > enough fuel to keep the engine running. A little shot of air from my
            > compressor was all it needed.
            >
            > --- On Tue, 9/30/08, r-m-ohler@... <mailto:r-m-ohler%40triton.net>
            <mailto:r-m-ohler%40triton.net>
            > <r-m-ohler@... <mailto:r-m-ohler%40triton.net>
            <mailto:r-m-ohler%40triton.net> > wrote:
            > From: r-m-ohler@... <mailto:r-m-ohler%40triton.net>
            <mailto:r-m-ohler%40triton.net>
            > <r-m-ohler@... <mailto:r-m-ohler%40triton.net>
            <mailto:r-m-ohler%40triton.net> >
            > Subject: Re: [Small4-strokeEngines] Briggs Problem
            > To: Small4-strokeEngines@yahoogroups.com
            <mailto:Small4-strokeEngines%40yahoogroups.com>
            > <mailto:Small4-strokeEngines%40yahoogroups.com>
            > Date: Tuesday, September 30, 2008, 9:38 PM
            >
            > The pump is supposed to flow more fuel than the engine can use. This fills
            >
            > the sump to an overflowing state where it just spills over into the main
            >
            > tank area. This is how the design prevents mixture changes with fuel level
            >
            > in the tank. The fuel pickup screens are real fine - are you certain they
            >
            > are actually flowing good? The tubes too? If they are, possibly the fuel
            >
            > pump spring has gotten damaged or lost it's proper tension. It does still
            >
            > have the special protector washer with it right? Too much tension(someone
            >
            > stretching it a bit thinking it'll work better) or too little - this is
            >
            > not nearly as common a problem. You did make sure that the tank is clean
            >
            > so that junk is not plugging the pickup screen while running? It can fall
            >
            > off when the engine is shut down and not show on the screen when pulled.
            >
            > Oh, some kits have extra gaskets. I'm pretty sure I recall that there is
            >
            > not supposed to be one between the diaphram and the main carb body. It
            >
            > should only take one gasket to seal the cover to the diaphram. If the
            >
            > cover was over tightend there could be vacuum leakage. Make sure the cover
            >
            > gasket surface is flat before it is installed
            >
            > Best,
            >
            > Ron O
            >
            >> I have a 3.5hp Briggs that came on a Sears rototiller. The engine will
            >
            >> run at idle but cannot pump enough fuel to keep running at normal
            >
            >> throttle settings. I have inspected the fuel pickup and the main jet
            >
            >> and see no blockages or varnishes and I cleaned them with Gumout
            >
            >> anyway. If the the small fuel bin that the main jet sits in is full the
            >
            >> engine runs at full throttle just fine but the pump won't fill it fast
            >
            >> enough to keep it running. I have replaced all the gaskets, including
            >
            >> the flapper valve in the pump circuit. What am I missing?
            >
            >>
            >
            >> Art
            >
            >>
            >
            >>
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >
            >





            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • r-m-ohler@triton.net
            Hi, My ole mechanics instructor taught us that a carb job wasn t worth doing unless you used compressed air at full pressure to blow out each and every
            Message 5 of 11 , Oct 2 5:39 AM
              Hi,
              My ole mechanics instructor taught us that a carb job wasn't worth doing
              unless you used compressed air at full pressure to blow out each and every
              passage. Prefferably from more than one direction. I use nozzels that OSHA
              wouldn't like as they are not saftey or pressure limiting. I'm still
              thinking that the primary pickup screen might not be flowing full flow.
              They are so fine that they can look clean but be plugged. I used acid to
              clean one last month on a mud pump that had been sitting outside for
              decades. It runs great now. Couldn't believe it as the muffler was gone
              and the port suffed full of mud. Exhaust valve was seized open and
              cylinder was corroded with white corrosion 3/8" thick in places. I had to
              beat the valve with a hammer to get it to crack loose. Thought I'd break
              the cam trying to push it back up. Spent better part of an hour on the
              valve. Used gravel and acid to clean the tank. It was one of the old pulse
              jet carbs which is what had me thinking along those lines with the pumping
              problem.
              Best,
              Ron

              > Hi  You might want to use a little air pressure in the fuel line back to
              > the gas tank.  That will usually blow any dirt or other plug out.  I had
              > several so-called mechanics look at my 10hp generator, and all told me the
              > carb was no good.  They dumped my gas out and washed the tank, then same
              > problem, not enough fuel to keep the engine running.  A little shot of air
              > from my compressor was all it needed.
              >
              > --- On Tue, 9/30/08, r-m-ohler@... <r-m-ohler@...> wrote:
              > From: r-m-ohler@... <r-m-ohler@...>
              > Subject: Re: [Small4-strokeEngines] Briggs Problem
              > To: Small4-strokeEngines@yahoogroups.com
              > Date: Tuesday, September 30, 2008, 9:38 PM
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > The pump is supposed to flow more fuel than the engine can
              > use. This fills
              >
              > the sump to an overflowing state where it just spills over into the main
              >
              > tank area. This is how the design prevents mixture changes with fuel level
              >
              > in the tank. The fuel pickup screens are real fine - are you certain they
              >
              > are actually flowing good? The tubes too? If they are, possibly the fuel
              >
              > pump spring has gotten damaged or lost it's proper tension. It does still
              >
              > have the special protector washer with it right? Too much tension(someone
              >
              > stretching it a bit thinking it'll work better) or too little - this is
              >
              > not nearly as common a problem. You did make sure that the tank is clean
              >
              > so that junk is not plugging the pickup screen while running? It can fall
              >
              > off when the engine is shut down and not show on the screen when pulled.
              >
              > Oh, some kits have extra gaskets. I'm pretty sure I recall that there is
              >
              > not supposed to be one between the diaphram and the main carb body. It
              >
              > should only take one gasket to seal the cover to the diaphram. If the
              >
              > cover was over tightend there could be vacuum leakage. Make sure the cover
              >
              > gasket surface is flat before it is installed
              >
              > Best,
              >
              > Ron O
              >
              >
              >
              >> I have a 3.5hp Briggs that came on a Sears rototiller. The engine will
              >
              >> run at idle but cannot pump enough fuel to keep running at normal
              >
              >> throttle settings. I have inspected the fuel pickup and the main jet
              >
              >> and see no blockages or varnishes and I cleaned them with Gumout
              >
              >> anyway. If the the small fuel bin that the main jet sits in is full the
              >
              >> engine runs at full throttle just fine but the pump won't fill it fast
              >
              >> enough to keep it running. I have replaced all the gaskets, including
              >
              >> the flapper valve in the pump circuit. What am I missing?
              >
              >>
              >
              >> Art
              >
              >>
              >
              >>
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
              >
            • william smith
              ... From: r-m-ohler@triton.net Subject: Re: [Small4-strokeEngines] Briggs Problem To: Small4-strokeEngines@yahoogroups.com Date:
              Message 6 of 11 , Oct 2 6:26 AM
                --- On Thu, 10/2/08, r-m-ohler@... <r-m-ohler@...> wrote:


                From: r-m-ohler@... <r-m-ohler@...>
                Subject: Re: [Small4-strokeEngines] Briggs Problem
                To: Small4-strokeEngines@yahoogroups.com
                Date: Thursday, October 2, 2008, 7:39 AM
                Hi Ron,
                I have a prop hub built by Warren Scruggs for an 084 before you started making them. I need a crush plate for it. Mine is drilled both for 1/4" and 5/16" bolts, rotax pattern I believe. How much are you charging for them now and how do send the money to you?
                Bill Smith





                Hi,
                My ole mechanics instructor taught us that a carb job wasn't worth doing
                unless you used compressed air at full pressure to blow out each and every
                passage. Prefferably from more than one direction. I use nozzels that OSHA
                wouldn't like as they are not saftey or pressure limiting. I'm still
                thinking that the primary pickup screen might not be flowing full flow.
                They are so fine that they can look clean but be plugged. I used acid to
                clean one last month on a mud pump that had been sitting outside for
                decades. It runs great now. Couldn't believe it as the muffler was gone
                and the port suffed full of mud. Exhaust valve was seized open and
                cylinder was corroded with white corrosion 3/8" thick in places. I had to
                beat the valve with a hammer to get it to crack loose. Thought I'd break
                the cam trying to push it back up. Spent better part of an hour on the
                valve. Used gravel and acid to clean the tank. It was one of the old pulse
                jet carbs which is what had me thinking along those lines with the pumping
                problem.
                Best,
                Ron

                > Hi  You might want to use a little air pressure in the fuel line back to
                > the gas tank.  That will usually blow any dirt or other plug out.  I had
                > several so-called mechanics look at my 10hp generator, and all told me the
                > carb was no good.  They dumped my gas out and washed the tank, then same
                > problem, not enough fuel to keep the engine running.  A little shot of air
                > from my compressor was all it needed.
                >
                > --- On Tue, 9/30/08, r-m-ohler@triton. net <r-m-ohler@triton. net> wrote:
                > From: r-m-ohler@triton. net <r-m-ohler@triton. net>
                > Subject: Re: [Small4-strokeEngin es] Briggs Problem
                > To: Small4-strokeEngine s@yahoogroups. com
                > Date: Tuesday, September 30, 2008, 9:38 PM
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > The pump is supposed to flow more fuel than the engine can
                > use. This fills
                >
                > the sump to an overflowing state where it just spills over into the main
                >
                > tank area. This is how the design prevents mixture changes with fuel level
                >
                > in the tank. The fuel pickup screens are real fine - are you certain they
                >
                > are actually flowing good? The tubes too? If they are, possibly the fuel
                >
                > pump spring has gotten damaged or lost it's proper tension. It does still
                >
                > have the special protector washer with it right? Too much tension(someone
                >
                > stretching it a bit thinking it'll work better) or too little - this is
                >
                > not nearly as common a problem. You did make sure that the tank is clean
                >
                > so that junk is not plugging the pickup screen while running? It can fall
                >
                > off when the engine is shut down and not show on the screen when pulled.
                >
                > Oh, some kits have extra gaskets. I'm pretty sure I recall that there is
                >
                > not supposed to be one between the diaphram and the main carb body. It
                >
                > should only take one gasket to seal the cover to the diaphram. If the
                >
                > cover was over tightend there could be vacuum leakage. Make sure the cover
                >
                > gasket surface is flat before it is installed
                >
                > Best,
                >
                > Ron O
                >
                >
                >
                >> I have a 3.5hp Briggs that came on a Sears rototiller. The engine will
                >
                >> run at idle but cannot pump enough fuel to keep running at normal
                >
                >> throttle settings. I have inspected the fuel pickup and the main jet
                >
                >> and see no blockages or varnishes and I cleaned them with Gumout
                >
                >> anyway. If the the small fuel bin that the main jet sits in is full the
                >
                >> engine runs at full throttle just fine but the pump won't fill it fast
                >
                >> enough to keep it running. I have replaced all the gaskets, including
                >
                >> the flapper valve in the pump circuit. What am I missing?
                >
                >>
                >
                >> Art
                >
                >>
                >
                >>
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >
                >


















                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • John Zissa
                I had one similat to this last summer. A friend has a Skag mower that had the same characteristics that you describe. This was a 20hp Kohler V-twin, but it
                Message 7 of 11 , Oct 2 6:33 AM
                  I had one similat to this last summer. A friend has a Skag mower that had
                  the same characteristics that you describe. This was a 20hp Kohler V-twin,
                  but it acted exactly the same way. He asked for my help, so I went through
                  all of the things you guys mentioned with no success. This made no sense at
                  all. Everything inside was spotless. I replaced all of the fuel lines and
                  carb lines, no change. I replaced the fuel pump diaphram etc., no change. I
                  replaced the line from the pump back to the tank. no change. I finally took
                  the tank off and drained it. I looked in with a flashlight could see nothing
                  in the way of contamination in it. As a last resort, I unscrewed the fuel
                  shutoff valve from the tank. This is a 90 deg. type, and the section inside
                  the tank before the bend had 4 long pine needles standing up on end in the
                  fitting and dramatically reducing flow! I thoroughly cleaned out the
                  valve/fitting from both ends, reassembled and replaced the tank. Now it ran
                  to full throttle with no problem. This valve passed fuel when checked, but
                  just not enough. The mower has been fine ever since.

                  John
                  _____

                  From: Small4-strokeEngines@yahoogroups.com
                  [mailto:Small4-strokeEngines@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
                  r-m-ohler@...
                  Sent: Thursday, October 02, 2008 8:39 AM
                  To: Small4-strokeEngines@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: Re: [Small4-strokeEngines] Briggs Problem



                  Hi,
                  My ole mechanics instructor taught us that a carb job wasn't worth doing
                  unless you used compressed air at full pressure to blow out each and every
                  passage. Prefferably from more than one direction. I use nozzels that OSHA
                  wouldn't like as they are not saftey or pressure limiting. I'm still
                  thinking that the primary pickup screen might not be flowing full flow.
                  They are so fine that they can look clean but be plugged. I used acid to
                  clean one last month on a mud pump that had been sitting outside for
                  decades. It runs great now. Couldn't believe it as the muffler was gone
                  and the port suffed full of mud. Exhaust valve was seized open and
                  cylinder was corroded with white corrosion 3/8" thick in places. I had to
                  beat the valve with a hammer to get it to crack loose. Thought I'd break
                  the cam trying to push it back up. Spent better part of an hour on the
                  valve. Used gravel and acid to clean the tank. It was one of the old pulse
                  jet carbs which is what had me thinking along those lines with the pumping
                  problem.
                  Best,
                  Ron

                  > Hi You might want to use a little air pressure in the fuel line back to
                  > the gas tank. That will usually blow any dirt or other plug out. I had
                  > several so-called mechanics look at my 10hp generator, and all told me the
                  > carb was no good. They dumped my gas out and washed the tank, then same
                  > problem, not enough fuel to keep the engine running. A little shot of air
                  > from my compressor was all it needed.
                  >
                  > --- On Tue, 9/30/08, r-m-ohler@triton. <mailto:r-m-ohler%40triton.net> net
                  <r-m-ohler@triton. <mailto:r-m-ohler%40triton.net> net> wrote:
                  > From: r-m-ohler@triton. <mailto:r-m-ohler%40triton.net> net
                  <r-m-ohler@triton. <mailto:r-m-ohler%40triton.net> net>
                  > Subject: Re: [Small4-strokeEngines] Briggs Problem
                  > To: Small4-strokeEngine <mailto:Small4-strokeEngines%40yahoogroups.com>
                  s@yahoogroups.com
                  > Date: Tuesday, September 30, 2008, 9:38 PM
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > The pump is supposed to flow more fuel than the engine can
                  > use. This fills
                  >
                  > the sump to an overflowing state where it just spills over into the main
                  >
                  > tank area. This is how the design prevents mixture changes with fuel level
                  >
                  > in the tank. The fuel pickup screens are real fine - are you certain they
                  >
                  > are actually flowing good? The tubes too? If they are, possibly the fuel
                  >
                  > pump spring has gotten damaged or lost it's proper tension. It does still
                  >
                  > have the special protector washer with it right? Too much tension(someone
                  >
                  > stretching it a bit thinking it'll work better) or too little - this is
                  >
                  > not nearly as common a problem. You did make sure that the tank is clean
                  >
                  > so that junk is not plugging the pickup screen while running? It can fall
                  >
                  > off when the engine is shut down and not show on the screen when pulled.
                  >
                  > Oh, some kits have extra gaskets. I'm pretty sure I recall that there is
                  >
                  > not supposed to be one between the diaphram and the main carb body. It
                  >
                  > should only take one gasket to seal the cover to the diaphram. If the
                  >
                  > cover was over tightend there could be vacuum leakage. Make sure the cover
                  >
                  > gasket surface is flat before it is installed
                  >
                  > Best,
                  >
                  > Ron O
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >> I have a 3.5hp Briggs that came on a Sears rototiller. The engine will
                  >
                  >> run at idle but cannot pump enough fuel to keep running at normal
                  >
                  >> throttle settings. I have inspected the fuel pickup and the main jet
                  >
                  >> and see no blockages or varnishes and I cleaned them with Gumout
                  >
                  >> anyway. If the the small fuel bin that the main jet sits in is full the
                  >
                  >> engine runs at full throttle just fine but the pump won't fill it fast
                  >
                  >> enough to keep it running. I have replaced all the gaskets, including
                  >
                  >> the flapper valve in the pump circuit. What am I missing?
                  >
                  >>
                  >
                  >> Art
                  >
                  >>
                  >
                  >>
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  >
                  >






                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • r-m-ohler@triton.net
                  HI Bill, I checked and have one 1/4 thick plate left that is drilled for both 1/4 and 5/16 bolts. Those I was charging $10. for plus shipping. The others are
                  Message 8 of 11 , Oct 10 4:26 AM
                    HI Bill,
                    I checked and have one 1/4" thick plate left that is drilled for both 1/4
                    and 5/16 bolts. Those I was charging $10. for plus shipping. The others
                    are drilled for the 5/16 pattern. These are $8.50 plus shipping. I'll try
                    to contact the post office to ask about the cost for the mailing envelopes
                    they have.
                    Thanks for the inquiry,
                    Ron
                    >
                    > --- On Thu, 10/2/08, r-m-ohler@... <r-m-ohler@...> wrote:
                    >
                    >
                    > From: r-m-ohler@... <r-m-ohler@...>
                    > Subject: Re: [Small4-strokeEngines] Briggs Problem
                    > To: Small4-strokeEngines@yahoogroups.com
                    > Date: Thursday, October 2, 2008, 7:39 AM
                    > Hi Ron,
                    > I have a prop hub built by Warren Scruggs for an 084 before you started
                    > making them. I need a crush plate for it. Mine is drilled both for 1/4"
                    > and 5/16" bolts, rotax pattern I believe. How much are you charging for
                    > them now and how do send the money to you?
                    > Bill Smith
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > Hi,
                    > My ole mechanics instructor taught us that a carb job wasn't worth doing
                    > unless you used compressed air at full pressure to blow out each and every
                    > passage. Prefferably from more than one direction. I use nozzels that OSHA
                    > wouldn't like as they are not saftey or pressure limiting. I'm still
                    > thinking that the primary pickup screen might not be flowing full flow.
                    > They are so fine that they can look clean but be plugged. I used acid to
                    > clean one last month on a mud pump that had been sitting outside for
                    > decades. It runs great now. Couldn't believe it as the muffler was gone
                    > and the port suffed full of mud. Exhaust valve was seized open and
                    > cylinder was corroded with white corrosion 3/8" thick in places. I had to
                    > beat the valve with a hammer to get it to crack loose. Thought I'd break
                    > the cam trying to push it back up. Spent better part of an hour on the
                    > valve. Used gravel and acid to clean the tank. It was one of the old pulse
                    > jet carbs which is what had me thinking along those lines with the pumping
                    > problem.
                    > Best,
                    > Ron
                    >
                    >> Hi  You might want to use a little air pressure in the fuel line back to
                    >> the gas tank.  That will usually blow any dirt or other plug out.  I had
                    >> several so-called mechanics look at my 10hp generator, and all told me
                    >> the
                    >> carb was no good.  They dumped my gas out and washed the tank, then same
                    >> problem, not enough fuel to keep the engine running.  A little shot of
                    >> air
                    >> from my compressor was all it needed.
                    >>
                    >> --- On Tue, 9/30/08, r-m-ohler@triton. net <r-m-ohler@triton. net>
                    >> wrote:
                    >> From: r-m-ohler@triton. net <r-m-ohler@triton. net>
                    >> Subject: Re: [Small4-strokeEngin es] Briggs Problem
                    >> To: Small4-strokeEngine s@yahoogroups. com
                    >> Date: Tuesday, September 30, 2008, 9:38 PM
                    >>
                    >>
                    >>
                    >>
                    >>
                    >>
                    >>
                    >>
                    >>
                    >>
                    >>
                    >> The pump is supposed to flow more fuel than the engine can
                    >> use. This fills
                    >>
                    >> the sump to an overflowing state where it just spills over into the main
                    >>
                    >> tank area. This is how the design prevents mixture changes with fuel
                    >> level
                    >>
                    >> in the tank. The fuel pickup screens are real fine - are you certain
                    >> they
                    >>
                    >> are actually flowing good? The tubes too? If they are, possibly the fuel
                    >>
                    >> pump spring has gotten damaged or lost it's proper tension. It does
                    >> still
                    >>
                    >> have the special protector washer with it right? Too much
                    >> tension(someone
                    >>
                    >> stretching it a bit thinking it'll work better) or too little - this is
                    >>
                    >> not nearly as common a problem. You did make sure that the tank is clean
                    >>
                    >> so that junk is not plugging the pickup screen while running? It can
                    >> fall
                    >>
                    >> off when the engine is shut down and not show on the screen when pulled.
                    >>
                    >> Oh, some kits have extra gaskets. I'm pretty sure I recall that there is
                    >>
                    >> not supposed to be one between the diaphram and the main carb body. It
                    >>
                    >> should only take one gasket to seal the cover to the diaphram. If the
                    >>
                    >> cover was over tightend there could be vacuum leakage. Make sure the
                    >> cover
                    >>
                    >> gasket surface is flat before it is installed
                    >>
                    >> Best,
                    >>
                    >> Ron O
                    >>
                    >>
                    >>
                    >>> I have a 3.5hp Briggs that came on a Sears rototiller. The engine will
                    >>
                    >>> run at idle but cannot pump enough fuel to keep running at normal
                    >>
                    >>> throttle settings. I have inspected the fuel pickup and the main jet
                    >>
                    >>> and see no blockages or varnishes and I cleaned them with Gumout
                    >>
                    >>> anyway. If the the small fuel bin that the main jet sits in is full the
                    >>
                    >>> engine runs at full throttle just fine but the pump won't fill it fast
                    >>
                    >>> enough to keep it running. I have replaced all the gaskets, including
                    >>
                    >>> the flapper valve in the pump circuit. What am I missing?
                    >>
                    >>>
                    >>
                    >>> Art
                    >>
                    >>>
                    >>
                    >>>
                    >>
                    >>
                    >>
                    >>
                    >>
                    >>
                    >>
                    >>
                    >>
                    >>
                    >>
                    >>
                    >>
                    >>
                    >>
                    >>
                    >>
                    >>
                    >>
                    >>
                    >>
                    >>
                    >>
                    >>
                    >>
                    >>
                    >>
                    >>
                    >>
                    >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    >>
                    >>
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    >
                    >
                  • william smith
                    OK Ron, I can send you a money order if you will give me an address to send it too, let me know the total when you find out about the shipping. I live in
                    Message 9 of 11 , Oct 10 7:46 AM
                      OK Ron,
                      I can send you a money order if you will give me an address to send it too, let me know the total when you find out about the shipping. I live in Gilmer texas. My e-mail is wesmith@... if you want to finish this up off group. I want the dual drilled one for both sizes. Thanks.
                      Bill

                      --- On Fri, 10/10/08, r-m-ohler@... <r-m-ohler@...> wrote:

                      From: r-m-ohler@... <r-m-ohler@...>
                      Subject: Re: [Small4-strokeEngines] Briggs Problem
                      To: Small4-strokeEngines@yahoogroups.com
                      Date: Friday, October 10, 2008, 6:26 AM






                      HI Bill,
                      I checked and have one 1/4" thick plate left that is drilled for both 1/4
                      and 5/16 bolts. Those I was charging $10. for plus shipping. The others
                      are drilled for the 5/16 pattern. These are $8.50 plus shipping. I'll try
                      to contact the post office to ask about the cost for the mailing envelopes
                      they have.
                      Thanks for the inquiry,
                      Ron
                      >
                      > --- On Thu, 10/2/08, r-m-ohler@triton. net <r-m-ohler@triton. net> wrote:
                      >
                      >
                      > From: r-m-ohler@triton. net <r-m-ohler@triton. net>
                      > Subject: Re: [Small4-strokeEngin es] Briggs Problem
                      > To: Small4-strokeEngine s@yahoogroups. com
                      > Date: Thursday, October 2, 2008, 7:39 AM
                      > Hi Ron,
                      > I have a prop hub built by Warren Scruggs for an 084 before you started
                      > making them. I need a crush plate for it. Mine is drilled both for 1/4"
                      > and 5/16" bolts, rotax pattern I believe. How much are you charging for
                      > them now and how do send the money to you?
                      > Bill Smith
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > Hi,
                      > My ole mechanics instructor taught us that a carb job wasn't worth doing
                      > unless you used compressed air at full pressure to blow out each and every
                      > passage. Prefferably from more than one direction. I use nozzels that OSHA
                      > wouldn't like as they are not saftey or pressure limiting. I'm still
                      > thinking that the primary pickup screen might not be flowing full flow.
                      > They are so fine that they can look clean but be plugged. I used acid to
                      > clean one last month on a mud pump that had been sitting outside for
                      > decades. It runs great now. Couldn't believe it as the muffler was gone
                      > and the port suffed full of mud. Exhaust valve was seized open and
                      > cylinder was corroded with white corrosion 3/8" thick in places. I had to
                      > beat the valve with a hammer to get it to crack loose. Thought I'd break
                      > the cam trying to push it back up. Spent better part of an hour on the
                      > valve. Used gravel and acid to clean the tank. It was one of the old pulse
                      > jet carbs which is what had me thinking along those lines with the pumping
                      > problem.
                      > Best,
                      > Ron
                      >
                      >> Hi  You might want to use a little air pressure in the fuel line back to
                      >> the gas tank.  That will usually blow any dirt or other plug out.  I had
                      >> several so-called mechanics look at my 10hp generator, and all told me
                      >> the
                      >> carb was no good.  They dumped my gas out and washed the tank, then same
                      >> problem, not enough fuel to keep the engine running.  A little shot of
                      >> air
                      >> from my compressor was all it needed.
                      >>
                      >> --- On Tue, 9/30/08, r-m-ohler@triton. net <r-m-ohler@triton. net>
                      >> wrote:
                      >> From: r-m-ohler@triton. net <r-m-ohler@triton. net>
                      >> Subject: Re: [Small4-strokeEngin es] Briggs Problem
                      >> To: Small4-strokeEngine s@yahoogroups. com
                      >> Date: Tuesday, September 30, 2008, 9:38 PM
                      >>
                      >>
                      >>
                      >>
                      >>
                      >>
                      >>
                      >>
                      >>
                      >>
                      >>
                      >> The pump is supposed to flow more fuel than the engine can
                      >> use. This fills
                      >>
                      >> the sump to an overflowing state where it just spills over into the main
                      >>
                      >> tank area. This is how the design prevents mixture changes with fuel
                      >> level
                      >>
                      >> in the tank. The fuel pickup screens are real fine - are you certain
                      >> they
                      >>
                      >> are actually flowing good? The tubes too? If they are, possibly the fuel
                      >>
                      >> pump spring has gotten damaged or lost it's proper tension. It does
                      >> still
                      >>
                      >> have the special protector washer with it right? Too much
                      >> tension(someone
                      >>
                      >> stretching it a bit thinking it'll work better) or too little - this is
                      >>
                      >> not nearly as common a problem. You did make sure that the tank is clean
                      >>
                      >> so that junk is not plugging the pickup screen while running? It can
                      >> fall
                      >>
                      >> off when the engine is shut down and not show on the screen when pulled.
                      >>
                      >> Oh, some kits have extra gaskets. I'm pretty sure I recall that there is
                      >>
                      >> not supposed to be one between the diaphram and the main carb body. It
                      >>
                      >> should only take one gasket to seal the cover to the diaphram. If the
                      >>
                      >> cover was over tightend there could be vacuum leakage. Make sure the
                      >> cover
                      >>
                      >> gasket surface is flat before it is installed
                      >>
                      >> Best,
                      >>
                      >> Ron O
                      >>
                      >>
                      >>
                      >>> I have a 3.5hp Briggs that came on a Sears rototiller. The engine will
                      >>
                      >>> run at idle but cannot pump enough fuel to keep running at normal
                      >>
                      >>> throttle settings. I have inspected the fuel pickup and the main jet
                      >>
                      >>> and see no blockages or varnishes and I cleaned them with Gumout
                      >>
                      >>> anyway. If the the small fuel bin that the main jet sits in is full the
                      >>
                      >>> engine runs at full throttle just fine but the pump won't fill it fast
                      >>
                      >>> enough to keep it running. I have replaced all the gaskets, including
                      >>
                      >>> the flapper valve in the pump circuit. What am I missing?
                      >>
                      >>>
                      >>
                      >>> Art
                      >>
                      >>>
                      >>
                      >>>
                      >>
                      >>
                      >>
                      >>
                      >>
                      >>
                      >>
                      >>
                      >>
                      >>
                      >>
                      >>
                      >>
                      >>
                      >>
                      >>
                      >>
                      >>
                      >>
                      >>
                      >>
                      >>
                      >>
                      >>
                      >>
                      >>
                      >>
                      >>
                      >>
                      >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      >>
                      >>
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      >
                      >


















                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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