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Re: compression release for generac

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  • George Bearden
    ... Hey, do ya ll remember those wind-up starters that were used back in the 60 s? I think they were on a variety of engines, not sure how big. Think I might
    Message 1 of 11 , Jul 1 9:18 AM
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      > with your hand near the props hub flip it backwardes
      > from the exhaust stroke to the compression stroke smartly.

      Hey, do ya'll remember those wind-up starters that were used back in
      the 60's? I think they were on a variety of engines, not sure how
      big. Think I might remember one on a small tractor.

      You unfold the crank, wind it until the spring was tight, then fold
      the crank back in and it would release the spring. It would spin the
      engine 'smartly', lots faster than you could by hand. The entire
      mechanism was lots lighter than am electric starter system. Compact
      too. Hardly bigger than a pull-start.

      Wonder what it would take to apply a similar design to our issues
      here? Wonder how one would find an example nowadays? Maybe they are
      still building them? Maybe an old manual might have an exploded
      diagram? Wonder if it would lend itself to home-DIY-ness?

      I have a thick small engine repair manual, I'll dig it out and peruse
      the pages...

      GeoB
    • mitch katz
      I ve been propping C-65s for years. Sometimes when they re being stubborn, I do prop them backwards for a couple of turns, but never try to recoil start them.
      Message 2 of 11 , Jul 1 9:49 AM
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        I've been propping C-65s for years. Sometimes when they're being stubborn, I do prop them backwards for a couple of turns, but never try to recoil start them. After a couple of backwards turns with the ignition off, then I call for brakes and contact, and pull it in the correct direction (counterclockwise). Having 'slick mags' makes it much much easier to prop-start. They generate a much better spark at hand-turning speed.
        I don't know what kind of mag is on the Generac, or if it's alterable.

        My usual routine for propping an engine begins with pulling it through, off and closed, for six or seven pulls. Sometimes I can see gas dripping from the exhaust, and can smell it. Then I call for brakes and contact. If it doesn't start by the third or fourth pull, I repeat the process. Then if it still doesn't start, I try pulling it backwards for a couple of pulls (off and closed). But I seldom have to do this. They almost always start on the first or second pull.

        Mitch Katz




        To: Small4-strokeEngines@yahoogroups.comFrom: rcschlemmer@...: Mon, 30 Jun 2008 14:03:50 -0700Subject: Re: [Small4-strokeEngines] Re: compression release for generac




        In my model airplane days hand popping some hight compession engines would started backwards. To get them going in the right dirrection I'd prop them backwards. Try choking and priming the engine in the proper direction with the ignition off. With the engine on standing behind the prop with your hand near the props hub flip it backwardes from the exhaust stroke to the compression stroke smartly. Hopefully it should kickback and fire starting the engine running in the correct direction. This was how they start the old rotory eninges in the first war. They also had fixed advanced timing. I don't know if your recoil starter will allow the engine to be rotated backwards. "WATCH YOUR HAND" when doing this!!!!!!! You don't want a broken wrist or fingers if you aren't quick enough.--- On Sun, 6/29/08, dangr53185 <dangr53185@...> wrote:From: dangr53185 <dangr53185@...>Subject: [Small4-strokeEngines] Re: compression release for generacTo: Small4-strokeEngines@yahoogroups.comDate: Sunday, June 29, 2008, 9:39 PM--- In Small4-strokeEngine s@yahoogroups. com, "mialpwall" <bandlofga@. ..> wrote:>this would be a belt redrive with ratio of around 1.3 that the guys at Buckeye are making up for me. They have it down to a 65" 3 blade prop with the redrive making around 300# thrust, I would just like it to lose some pounds like eliminating the starter.dan> I`ve hand propped a 300 cu. in. (GO 300) many times. Yes, geared. No > compression release. Buck Wall> ----- Original Message ----- > From: "JERRY" <j.soar.aero@ ...>> To: <Small4-strokeEngine s@yahoogroups. com>> Sent: Sunday, June 29, 2008 5:53 PM> Subject: Re: [Small4-strokeEngin es] compression release for generac> > > > From my experience with hand propping my Generac, I would doubt that> > compression releases would get the job done. (You would need 2 of> > them of course.)> >> > I guess the idea is that you could spin the prop faster that way, so> > that when the 30 degree advanced ignition timing fires it would not> > kick back. It is hard enough to start my near 0 degree set-up. Unless> > you are very strong and in a good position to do it, I suspect it> > couldn't be done reliably.> >> > Jerry Booker> >> >> >> > At 07:58 AM 6/28/2008, you wrote:> >>Has anyone put on a compression release on the generac so they can> >>prop start it? If so whats all intailed. This would reduce the weight> >>of the motor quite a bit. any imput?> >>> >>> >>---------- --------- --------- --------> >>> >>> >>### Lets use this list to build a knowledge base for those who are> >>interested in flying with these engines. Don't forget you can search the> >>messages archive for past discussions. Please keep comments on subject.> >>Sorry, no attachments allowed.> >>> >>For access to the home page:> >> >http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/Small4- strokeEngines/<> >>> >>For direct access to the files area:> >> >http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/Small4- strokeEngines/ files/<Yahoo!> >> Groups Links> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> > ------------ --------- --------- ------> >> >> > ### Lets use this list to build a knowledge base for those who are> > interested in flying with these engines. Don't forget you can search the> > messages archive for past discussions. Please keep comments on subject.> > Sorry, no attachments allowed.> >> > For access to the home page:> >>http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/Small4- strokeEngines/<> >> > For direct access to the files area:> >>http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/Small4- strokeEngines/ files/<Yahoo! Groups > >>Links> >> >> >>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






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      • Tony
        That is one heck of a good idea!! I lurk most of the time and that caught my attention. I will look into it and get back with you folks. Tony ... From: George
        Message 3 of 11 , Jul 1 4:38 PM
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          That is one heck of a good idea!! I lurk most of the time and that caught
          my attention. I will look into it and
          get back with you folks.

          Tony


          ----- Original Message -----
          From: "George Bearden" <gab16@...>
          To: <Small4-strokeEngines@yahoogroups.com>
          Sent: Tuesday, July 01, 2008 12:18 PM
          Subject: [Small4-strokeEngines] Re: compression release for generac


          >> with your hand near the props hub flip it backwardes
          >> from the exhaust stroke to the compression stroke smartly.
          >
          > Hey, do ya'll remember those wind-up starters that were used back in
          > the 60's? I think they were on a variety of engines, not sure how
          > big. Think I might remember one on a small tractor.
          >
          > You unfold the crank, wind it until the spring was tight, then fold
          > the crank back in and it would release the spring. It would spin the
          > engine 'smartly', lots faster than you could by hand. The entire
          > mechanism was lots lighter than am electric starter system. Compact
          > too. Hardly bigger than a pull-start.
          >
          > Wonder what it would take to apply a similar design to our issues
          > here? Wonder how one would find an example nowadays? Maybe they are
          > still building them? Maybe an old manual might have an exploded
          > diagram? Wonder if it would lend itself to home-DIY-ness?
          >
          > I have a thick small engine repair manual, I'll dig it out and peruse
          > the pages...
          >
          > GeoB
          >
          >
          > ------------------------------------
          >
          >
          > ### Lets use this list to build a knowledge base for those who are
          > interested in flying with these engines. Don't forget you can search the
          > messages archive for past discussions. Please keep comments on subject.
          > Sorry, no attachments allowed.
          >
          > For access to the home page:
          >>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Small4-strokeEngines/<
          >
          > For direct access to the files area:
          >>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Small4-strokeEngines/files/<Yahoo! Groups
          >>Links
          >
          >
          >
        • vasant apte
          Hi All, I can not understand all this fuss about hand cranking the engine- do this first,do that next, switch the ignition off etc. when you have the facility
          Message 4 of 11 , Jul 2 12:13 AM
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            Hi All,
            I can not understand all this fuss about hand cranking the engine- do this first,do that next, switch the ignition off etc. when you have the facility of a self starter, why risk your head/hand going in the blade and then let someone else fly your plane !!!! Like the weight of the starter and the battery is something like 10kg !!! The weight saving by NOT putting the starter and the battery may be ALMOST equivalent to  having a sumptuos meal with a downing a bottle of water !!! So be safe and stick to starter...
            Vasant



            ----- Original Message ----
            From: mitch katz <mitch_katz@...>
            To: small4-strokeengines@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Tuesday, July 1, 2008 10:19:40 PM
            Subject: RE: [Small4-strokeEngines] Re: compression release for generac



            I've been propping C-65s for years. Sometimes when they're being stubborn, I do prop them backwards for a couple of turns, but never try to recoil start them. After a couple of backwards turns with the ignition off, then I call for brakes and contact, and pull it in the correct direction (counterclockwise) . Having 'slick mags' makes it much much easier to prop-start. They generate a much better spark at hand-turning speed.
            I don't know what kind of mag is on the Generac, or if it's alterable.

            My usual routine for propping an engine begins with pulling it through, off and closed, for six or seven pulls. Sometimes I can see gas dripping from the exhaust, and can smell it. Then I call for brakes and contact. If it doesn't start by the third or fourth pull, I repeat the process. Then if it still doesn't start, I try pulling it backwards for a couple of pulls (off and closed). But I seldom have to do this. They almost always start on the first or second pull.

            Mitch Katz



            To: Small4-strokeEngine s@yahoogroups. comFrom: rcschlemmer@ yahoo.comDate: Mon, 30 Jun 2008 14:03:50 -0700Subject: Re: [Small4-strokeEngin es] Re: compression release for generac

            In my model airplane days hand popping some hight compession engines would started backwards. To get them going in the right dirrection I'd prop them backwards. Try choking and priming the engine in the proper direction with the ignition off. With the engine on standing behind the prop with your hand near the props hub flip it backwardes from the exhaust stroke to the compression stroke smartly. Hopefully it should kickback and fire starting the engine running in the correct direction. This was how they start the old rotory eninges in the first war. They also had fixed advanced timing. I don't know if your recoil starter will allow the engine to be rotated backwards. "WATCH YOUR HAND" when doing this!!!!!!! You don't want a broken wrist or fingers if you aren't quick enough.--- On Sun, 6/29/08, dangr53185 <dangr53185@yahoo. com> wrote:From: dangr53185 <dangr53185@yahoo. com>Subject: [Small4-strokeEngin es] Re: compression release for generacTo:
            Small4-strokeEngine s@yahoogroups. comDate: Sunday, June 29, 2008, 9:39 PM--- In Small4-strokeEngine s@yahoogroups. com, "mialpwall" <bandlofga@. ..> wrote:>this would be a belt redrive with ratio of around 1.3 that the guys at Buckeye are making up for me. They have it down to a 65" 3 blade prop with the redrive making around 300# thrust, I would just like it to lose some pounds like eliminating the starter.dan> I`ve hand propped a 300 cu. in. (GO 300) many times. Yes, geared. No > compression release. Buck Wall> ----- Original Message ----- > From: "JERRY" <j.soar.aero@ ...>> To: <Small4-strokeEngin e s@yahoogroups. com>> Sent: Sunday, June 29, 2008 5:53 PM> Subject: Re: [Small4-strokeEngin es] compression release for generac> > > > From my experience with hand propping my Generac, I would doubt that> > compression releases would get the job done. (You would need 2 of> > them of course.)> >> > I guess the idea is that you could spin the prop faster
            that way, so> > that when the 30 degree advanced ignition timing fires it would not> > kick back. It is hard enough to start my near 0 degree set-up. Unless> > you are very strong and in a good position to do it, I suspect it> > couldn't be done reliably.> >> > Jerry Booker> >> >> >> > At 07:58 AM 6/28/2008, you wrote:> >>Has anyone put on a compression release on the generac so they can> >>prop start it? If so whats all intailed. This would reduce the weight> >>of the motor quite a bit. any imput?> >>> >>> >>---------- --------- --------- --------> >>> >>> >>### Lets use this list to build a knowledge base for those who are> >>interested in flying with these engines. Don't forget you can search the> >>messages archive for past discussions. Please keep comments on subject.> >>Sorry, no attachments allowed.> >>> >>For access to the home page:> >> >http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/Small4- strokeEngines/ <> >>> >>For direct access to the files area:> >>
            >http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/Small4- strokeEngines/ files/<Yahoo! > >> Groups Links> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> > ------------ --------- --------- ------> >> >> > ### Lets use this list to build a knowledge base for those who are> > interested in flying with these engines. Don't forget you can search the> > messages archive for past discussions. Please keep comments on subject.> > Sorry, no attachments allowed.> >> > For access to the home page:> >>http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/Small4- strokeEngines/ <> >> > For direct access to the files area:> >>http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/Small4- strokeEngines/ files/<Yahoo! Groups > >>Links> >> >> >>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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          • mitch katz
            Propping planes is safe if you follow basic precautions, and is an absolute hoot. I fly out of an airport (Red Stewart Airfield in Waynesville Ohio) where
            Message 5 of 11 , Jul 2 5:41 AM
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              Propping planes is safe if you follow basic precautions, and is an absolute hoot. I fly out of an airport (Red Stewart Airfield in Waynesville Ohio) where there are a dozen small taildraggers, all requiring hand-propping. Most of these planes were built in the 40s. All are very inexpensive to own and operate. My 16 year old son loves to prop the Champ when we go anywhere. He likes being in charge (the one doing the propping is always in charge).
              It's more than not having a battery and starter. No belts, no alternators or generators. The planes are simple- a tach, an altimeter, an airspeed indicator, a compass, and a couple of engine gauges. This airport teaches flying in a Champ and a Cub. The student transitions into a Cessna after soloing and flying a couple of cross-countries, or between the Recreational/ Sport and the Private. I hope that when I become an Airport Geezer (some say I already am at 50), loafing around the airport watching the planes landing and taking off, I'll still be propping anyone who needs a prop.
              I'd write more, but it's a nice day, the sun is shining. I may be coming down with something. I think I need to leave work.....
              Mitch Katz





              To: Small4-strokeEngines@yahoogroups.comFrom: vasantapte@...: Wed, 2 Jul 2008 00:13:56 -0700Subject: Re: [Small4-strokeEngines] Re: compression release for generac




              Hi All,I can not understand all this fuss about hand cranking the engine- do this first,do that next, switch the ignition off etc. when you have the facility of a self starter, why risk your head/hand going in the blade and then let someone else fly your plane !!!! Like the weight of the starter and the battery is something like 10kg !!! The weight saving by NOT putting the starter and the battery may be ALMOST equivalent to having a sumptuos meal with a downing a bottle of water !!! So be safe and stick to starter...Vasant----- Original Message ----From: mitch katz <mitch_katz@...>To: small4-strokeengines@yahoogroups.comSent: Tuesday, July 1, 2008 10:19:40 PMSubject: RE: [Small4-strokeEngines] Re: compression release for generacI've been propping C-65s for years. Sometimes when they're being stubborn, I do prop them backwards for a couple of turns, but never try to recoil start them. After a couple of backwards turns with the ignition off, then I call for brakes and contact, and pull it in the correct direction (counterclockwise) . Having 'slick mags' makes it much much easier to prop-start. They generate a much better spark at hand-turning speed. I don't know what kind of mag is on the Generac, or if it's alterable. My usual routine for propping an engine begins with pulling it through, off and closed, for six or seven pulls. Sometimes I can see gas dripping from the exhaust, and can smell it. Then I call for brakes and contact. If it doesn't start by the third or fourth pull, I repeat the process. Then if it still doesn't start, I try pulling it backwards for a couple of pulls (off and closed). But I seldom have to do this. They almost always start on the first or second pull.Mitch KatzTo: Small4-strokeEngine s@yahoogroups. comFrom: rcschlemmer@ yahoo.comDate: Mon, 30 Jun 2008 14:03:50 -0700Subject: Re: [Small4-strokeEngin es] Re: compression release for generacIn my model airplane days hand popping some hight compession engines would started backwards. To get them going in the right dirrection I'd prop them backwards. Try choking and priming the engine in the proper direction with the ignition off. With the engine on standing behind the prop with your hand near the props hub flip it backwardes from the exhaust stroke to the compression stroke smartly. Hopefully it should kickback and fire starting the engine running in the correct direction. This was how they start the old rotory eninges in the first war. They also had fixed advanced timing. I don't know if your recoil starter will allow the engine to be rotated backwards. "WATCH YOUR HAND" when doing this!!!!!!! You don't want a broken wrist or fingers if you aren't quick enough.--- On Sun, 6/29/08, dangr53185 <dangr53185@yahoo. com> wrote:From: dangr53185 <dangr53185@yahoo. com>Subject: [Small4-strokeEngin es] Re: compression release for generacTo:Small4-strokeEngine s@yahoogroups. comDate: Sunday, June 29, 2008, 9:39 PM--- In Small4-strokeEngine s@yahoogroups. com, "mialpwall" <bandlofga@. ..> wrote:>this would be a belt redrive with ratio of around 1.3 that the guys at Buckeye are making up for me. They have it down to a 65" 3 blade prop with the redrive making around 300# thrust, I would just like it to lose some pounds like eliminating the starter.dan> I`ve hand propped a 300 cu. in. (GO 300) many times. Yes, geared. No > compression release. Buck Wall> ----- Original Message ----- > From: "JERRY" <j.soar.aero@ ...>> To: <Small4-strokeEngin e s@yahoogroups. com>> Sent: Sunday, June 29, 2008 5:53 PM> Subject: Re: [Small4-strokeEngin es] compression release for generac> > > > From my experience with hand propping my Generac, I would doubt that> > compression releases would get the job done. (You would need 2 of> > them of course.)> >> > I guess the idea is that you could spin the prop fasterthat way, so> > that when the 30 degree advanced ignition timing fires it would not> > kick back. It is hard enough to start my near 0 degree set-up. Unless> > you are very strong and in a good position to do it, I suspect it> > couldn't be done reliably.> >> > Jerry Booker> >> >> >> > At 07:58 AM 6/28/2008, you wrote:> >>Has anyone put on a compression release on the generac so they can> >>prop start it? If so whats all intailed. This would reduce the weight> >>of the motor quite a bit. any imput?> >>> >>> >>---------- --------- --------- --------> >>> >>> >>### Lets use this list to build a knowledge base for those who are> >>interested in flying with these engines. Don't forget you can search the> >>messages archive for past discussions. Please keep comments on subject.> >>Sorry, no attachments allowed.> >>> >>For access to the home page:> >> >http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/Small4- strokeEngines/ <> >>> >>For direct access to the files area:> >>>http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/Small4- strokeEngines/ files/<Yahoo! > >> Groups Links> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> > ------------ --------- --------- ------> >> >> > ### Lets use this list to build a knowledge base for those who are> > interested in flying with these engines. Don't forget you can search the> > messages archive for past discussions. Please keep comments on subject.> > Sorry, no attachments allowed.> >> > For access to the home page:> >>http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/Small4- strokeEngines/ <> >> > For direct access to the files area:> >>http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/Small4- strokeEngines/ files/<Yahoo! Groups > >>Links> >> >> >>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _Need to know now? Get instant answers with Windows Live Messenger.http://www.windowsl ive.com/messenge r/connect_ your_way. html?ocid= TXT_TAGLM_ WL_messenger_ 072008[Non-text portions of this message have been removed][Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





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