Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Re: [Small4-strokeEngines] Hoses for inlets on any V-Twin

Expand Messages
  • woody king
    Excellent thought, Charlie. I did look but didn t notice any collapse, and they were very stiff new thick hoses. BUT, you are so right. Except the major vaccum
    Message 1 of 19 , Feb 23, 2013
    • 0 Attachment
      Excellent thought, Charlie. I did look but didn't notice any collapse, and they were very stiff new thick hoses. BUT, you are so right. Except the major vaccum would be at idle, and my rpm/power loss was at full throttle. There the vaccum would be very low, but I did not consider the possibility you pointed out. Alot going on. Thanks for the input, I will add that to my "book" of things to remember.  Woody

      --- On Mon, 2/18/13, RV7Charlie <mcsophie@...> wrote:

      From: RV7Charlie <mcsophie@...>
      Subject: Re: [Small4-strokeEngines] Hoses for inlets on any V-Twin
      To: "Small4-strokeEngines@yahoogroups.com" <Small4-strokeEngines@yahoogroups.com>
      Date: Monday, February 18, 2013, 11:40 AM

       
      Could you see the hoses while running? Manifold vacuum has the potential to collapse a rubber hose, if it isn't designed to handle vacuum (like the spring in a radiator hose).

      Sent from my iPhone

      On Feb 18, 2013, at 8:59 AM, woody king <woodyking2001@...> wrote:

       
      My experience, that I can't explain, was loss of power using hoses for intake runs. I was using straight 2.25 ID hose which was a great fit onto carb and intake, not restricting at all. Yet, I lost darn near 1000 rpm static. Hoses were about 14" long, with a long sweeping 20 degree overall turn. I went back and my power came back. I would not have thought this would make that much difference. I have used shorter similiar adapters on many things like motorcycles and hovercraft, and they seemed to work fine.     Woody

      --- On Mon, 2/18/13, Kev A <kevin@...> wrote:

      From: Kev A <kevin@...>
      Subject: [Small4-strokeEngines] Hoses for inlets on any V-Twin
      To: Small4-strokeEngines@yahoogroups.com
      Date: Monday, February 18, 2013, 9:29 AM

       
      Juraj Tinka, a czech sport pilot was exchanging useful info with Arif, in Far East Asia, on his V-Twin mounted in a little sports fixed wing aircraft; Arif kindly copied me in.

      This was a Vanguard B&S but one idea he had that applies to any engine is in one of the emails:-

      "Carb is standard and mounted on the motor mount.
      Float type carbs are sensitive for vibrations. This system reduces
      vibrations from motor."

      What Juraj showed in the photos was two steel 'U' bend tubes on the heads, running back into long rubber auto hoses to a carburator fitted to the bulkhead.

      His rig was prop mounted flywheel side, I guess if prop mounted PTO side (on a redrive or taper shaft) on a tractor rig the inlet tubes would be easy, running straight back off the heads into a flange on a carb 12-18" behind the motor. Heat would need watching as the head heat might cook the rubber tubes.

      What do you guys think? Fairly easy to do by rigging a pair of adapter nbends off the top of the stock manifold, longer inlet tracts might give better power too?

      Kev

    • Kev A
      Wonder why Rotax and Robin etc. fit rubber carb mounts to kill vibes getting to the float needle assembly and messing up the mixture, and Briggs/Kohler/Generac
      Message 2 of 19 , Feb 25, 2013
      • 0 Attachment
        Wonder why Rotax and Robin etc. fit rubber carb mounts to kill vibes getting to the float needle assembly and messing up the mixture, and Briggs/Kohler/Generac don't?

        A normal installation would see any of these bolted to something heavy iron and not too fussy about fuel burn, but as we hang ours on relatively flimsy lightweight structures, the V-Twin will vibrate much more.

        Maybe that Czech feller had a point, and longer rubber hoses to a remote mounted carb are beneficial? Probably less chance of an in-flight fire too.

        Cheers

        Kev

        --- In Small4-strokeEngines@yahoogroups.com, woody king <woodyking2001@...> wrote:
        >
        > Excellent thought, Charlie. I did look but didn't notice any collapse, and they were very stiff new thick hoses. BUT, you are so right. Except the major vaccum would be at idle, and my rpm/power loss was at full throttle. There the vaccum would be very low, but I did not consider the possibility you pointed out. Alot going on. Thanks for the input, I will add that to my "book" of things to remember.  Woody
        >
        > --- On Mon, 2/18/13, RV7Charlie <mcsophie@...> wrote:
        >
        >
        > From: RV7Charlie <mcsophie@...>
        > Subject: Re: [Small4-strokeEngines] Hoses for inlets on any V-Twin
        > To: "Small4-strokeEngines@yahoogroups.com" <Small4-strokeEngines@yahoogroups.com>
        > Date: Monday, February 18, 2013, 11:40 AM
        >
        >
        >
        >  
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > Could you see the hoses while running? Manifold vacuum has the potential to collapse a rubber hose, if it isn't designed to handle vacuum (like the spring in a radiator hose).
        >
        > Sent from my iPhone
        >
        > On Feb 18, 2013, at 8:59 AM, woody king <woodyking2001@...> wrote:
        >
        >
        >
        >  
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > My experience, that I can't explain, was loss of power using hoses for intake runs. I was using straight 2.25 ID hose which was a great fit onto carb and intake, not restricting at all. Yet, I lost darn near 1000 rpm static. Hoses were about 14" long, with a long sweeping 20 degree overall turn. I went back and my power came back. I would not have thought this would make that much difference. I have used shorter similiar adapters on many things like motorcycles and hovercraft, and they seemed to work fine.     Woody
        >
        > --- On Mon, 2/18/13, Kev A <kevin@...> wrote:
        >
        >
        > From: Kev A <kevin@...>
        > Subject: [Small4-strokeEngines] Hoses for inlets on any V-Twin
        > To: Small4-strokeEngines@yahoogroups.com
        > Date: Monday, February 18, 2013, 9:29 AM
        >
        >
        >
        >  
        >
        > Juraj Tinka, a czech sport pilot was exchanging useful info with Arif, in Far East Asia, on his V-Twin mounted in a little sports fixed wing aircraft; Arif kindly copied me in.
        >
        > This was a Vanguard B&S but one idea he had that applies to any engine is in one of the emails:-
        >
        > "Carb is standard and mounted on the motor mount.
        > Float type carbs are sensitive for vibrations. This system reduces
        > vibrations from motor."
        >
        > What Juraj showed in the photos was two steel 'U' bend tubes on the heads, running back into long rubber auto hoses to a carburator fitted to the bulkhead.
        >
        > His rig was prop mounted flywheel side, I guess if prop mounted PTO side (on a redrive or taper shaft) on a tractor rig the inlet tubes would be easy, running straight back off the heads into a flange on a carb 12-18" behind the motor. Heat would need watching as the head heat might cook the rubber tubes.
        >
        > What do you guys think? Fairly easy to do by rigging a pair of adapter nbends off the top of the stock manifold, longer inlet tracts might give better power too?
        >
        > Kev
        >
      • dagwodzz@bellsouth.net
        They will vibrate even more with rubber mounts. ... From: Kev A Date: 2/25/2013 3:23:54 PM To: Small4-strokeEngines@yahoogroups.com Subject:
        Message 3 of 19 , Feb 25, 2013
        • 0 Attachment
          They will vibrate even more with rubber mounts.   
           
           
           
           
          -------Original Message-------
           
          From: Kev A
          Date: 2/25/2013 3:23:54 PM
          Subject: [Small4-strokeEngines] Re: Hoses for inlets on any V-Twin
           
           

          Wonder why Rotax and Robin etc. fit rubber carb mounts to kill vibes getting to the float needle assembly and messing up the mixture, and Briggs/Kohler/Generac don't?

          A normal installation would see any of these bolted to something heavy iron and not too fussy about fuel burn, but as we hang ours on relatively flimsy lightweight structures, the V-Twin will vibrate much more.

          Maybe that Czech feller had a point, and longer rubber hoses to a remote mounted carb are beneficial? Probably less chance of an in-flight fire too.

          Cheers

          Kev

          --- In Small4-strokeEngines@yahoogroups.com, woody king wrote:
          >
          > Excellent thought, Charlie. I did look but didn't notice any collapse, and they were very stiff new thick hoses. BUT, you are so right. Except the major vaccum would be at idle, and my rpm/power loss was at full throttle. There the vaccum would be very low, but I did not consider the possibility you pointed out. Alot going on. Thanks for the input, I will add that to my "book" of things to remember.  Woody
          >
          > --- On Mon, 2/18/13, RV7Charlie wrote:
          >
          >
          > From: RV7Charlie
          > Subject: Re: [Small4-strokeEngines] Hoses for inlets on any V-Twin
          > To: "Small4-strokeEngines@yahoogroups.com" Small4-strokeEngines@yahoogroups.com>
          > Date: Monday, February 18, 2013, 11:40 AM
          >
          >
          >
          >  
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > Could you see the hoses while running? Manifold vacuum has the potential to collapse a rubber hose, if it isn't designed to handle vacuum (like the spring in a radiator hose).
          >
          > Sent from my iPhone
          >
          > On Feb 18, 2013, at 8:59 AM, woody king wrote:
          >
          >
          >
          >  
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > My experience, that I can't explain, was loss of power using hoses for intake runs. I was using straight 2.25 ID hose which was a great fit onto carb and intake, not restricting at all. Yet, I lost darn near 1000 rpm static. Hoses were about 14" long, with a long sweeping 20 degree overall turn. I went back and my power came back. I would not have thought this would make that much difference. I have used shorter similiar adapters on many things like motorcycles and hovercraft, and they seemed to work fine.     Woody
          >
          > --- On Mon, 2/18/13, Kev A wrote:
          >
          >
          > From: Kev A
          > Subject: [Small4-strokeEngines] Hoses for inlets on any V-Twin
          > To: Small4-strokeEngines@yahoogroups.com
          > Date: Monday, February 18, 2013, 9:29 AM
          >
          >
          >
          >  
          >
          > Juraj Tinka, a czech sport pilot was exchanging useful info with Arif, in Far East Asia, on his V-Twin mounted in a little sports fixed wing aircraft; Arif kindly copied me in.
          >
          > This was a Vanguard B&S but one idea he had that applies to any engine is in one of the emails:-
          >
          > "Carb is standard and mounted on the motor mount.
          > Float type carbs are sensitive for vibrations. This system reduces
          > vibrations from motor."
          >
          > What Juraj showed in the photos was two steel 'U' bend tubes on the heads, running back into long rubber auto hoses to a carburator fitted to the bulkhead.
          >
          > His rig was prop mounted flywheel side, I guess if prop mounted PTO side (on a redrive or taper shaft) on a tractor rig the inlet tubes would be easy, running straight back off the heads into a flange on a carb 12-18" behind the motor. Heat would need watching as the head heat might cook the rubber tubes.
          >
          > What do you guys think? Fairly easy to do by rigging a pair of adapter nbends off the top of the stock manifold, longer inlet tracts might give better power too?
          >
          > Kev
          >

           
        • Peter Walker
          Hello Simple to manufacture Cheap  Easy to fit  Expensive replacement And it is a bike norm so carbs to suit are easily available Peter
          Message 4 of 19 , Feb 25, 2013
          • 0 Attachment
            Hello

            Simple to manufacture
            Cheap 
            Easy to fit 
            Expensive replacement
            And it is a bike norm so carbs to suit are easily available
            Peter


            From: invadermark4 <garrywarber@...>
            To: Small4-strokeEngines@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2013 6:07 AM
            Subject: [Small4-strokeEngines] Re: Hoses for inlets on any V-Twin

             
            Two-stroke vibration would be at a much higher frequency, wouldn't it? And Rotax rubber mounts fail, a lot... Another thought, maybe they use diaphram carbs? I wouldn't know, as I really have to desire to learn about them.
            Garry

            --- In Small4-strokeEngines@yahoogroups.com, "Kev A" wrote:
            >
            > Wonder why Rotax and Robin etc. fit rubber carb mounts to kill vibes getting to the float needle assembly and messing up the mixture, and Briggs/Kohler/Generac don't?
            >
            > A normal installation would see any of these bolted to something heavy iron and not too fussy about fuel burn, but as we hang ours on relatively flimsy lightweight structures, the V-Twin will vibrate much more.
            >
            > Maybe that Czech feller had a point, and longer rubber hoses to a remote mounted carb are beneficial? Probably less chance of an in-flight fire too.
            >
            > Cheers
            >
            > Kev



          • John
            Long inlet pipes might actually be beneficial if they could be tuned like an exhaust is tuned. If I were to try this, I would certainly use thin wall metal
            Message 5 of 19 , Feb 27, 2013
            • 0 Attachment
              Long inlet pipes might actually be beneficial if they could be tuned like an exhaust is tuned. If I were to try this, I would certainly use thin wall metal tubes mounted reasonably firmly and use short rubber couplers to allow the vibration induced movement. It might take several "joints", each bending in an appropriate direction to allow all the necessary degrees of movement.

              John

              --- In Small4-strokeEngines@yahoogroups.com, "Kev A" <kevin@...> wrote:
              >
              > Wonder why Rotax and Robin etc. fit rubber carb mounts to kill vibes getting to the float needle assembly and messing up the mixture, and Briggs/Kohler/Generac don't?
              >
              > A normal installation would see any of these bolted to something heavy iron and not too fussy about fuel burn, but as we hang ours on relatively flimsy lightweight structures, the V-Twin will vibrate much more.
              >
              > Maybe that Czech feller had a point, and longer rubber hoses to a remote mounted carb are beneficial? Probably less chance of an in-flight fire too.
              >
              > Cheers
              >
              > Kev
              >
              > --- In Small4-strokeEngines@yahoogroups.com, woody king <woodyking2001@> wrote:
              > >
              > > Excellent thought, Charlie. I did look but didn't notice any collapse, and they were very stiff new thick hoses. BUT, you are so right. Except the major vaccum would be at idle, and my rpm/power loss was at full throttle. There the vaccum would be very low, but I did not consider the possibility you pointed out. Alot going on. Thanks for the input, I will add that to my "book" of things to remember.  Woody
              > >
              > > --- On Mon, 2/18/13, RV7Charlie <mcsophie@> wrote:
              > >
              > >
              > > From: RV7Charlie <mcsophie@>
              > > Subject: Re: [Small4-strokeEngines] Hoses for inlets on any V-Twin
              > > To: "Small4-strokeEngines@yahoogroups.com" <Small4-strokeEngines@yahoogroups.com>
              > > Date: Monday, February 18, 2013, 11:40 AM
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >  
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > Could you see the hoses while running? Manifold vacuum has the potential to collapse a rubber hose, if it isn't designed to handle vacuum (like the spring in a radiator hose).
              > >
              > > Sent from my iPhone
              > >
              > > On Feb 18, 2013, at 8:59 AM, woody king <woodyking2001@> wrote:
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >  
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > My experience, that I can't explain, was loss of power using hoses for intake runs. I was using straight 2.25 ID hose which was a great fit onto carb and intake, not restricting at all. Yet, I lost darn near 1000 rpm static. Hoses were about 14" long, with a long sweeping 20 degree overall turn. I went back and my power came back. I would not have thought this would make that much difference. I have used shorter similiar adapters on many things like motorcycles and hovercraft, and they seemed to work fine.     Woody
              > >
              > > --- On Mon, 2/18/13, Kev A <kevin@> wrote:
              > >
              > >
              > > From: Kev A <kevin@>
              > > Subject: [Small4-strokeEngines] Hoses for inlets on any V-Twin
              > > To: Small4-strokeEngines@yahoogroups.com
              > > Date: Monday, February 18, 2013, 9:29 AM
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >  
              > >
              > > Juraj Tinka, a czech sport pilot was exchanging useful info with Arif, in Far East Asia, on his V-Twin mounted in a little sports fixed wing aircraft; Arif kindly copied me in.
              > >
              > > This was a Vanguard B&S but one idea he had that applies to any engine is in one of the emails:-
              > >
              > > "Carb is standard and mounted on the motor mount.
              > > Float type carbs are sensitive for vibrations. This system reduces
              > > vibrations from motor."
              > >
              > > What Juraj showed in the photos was two steel 'U' bend tubes on the heads, running back into long rubber auto hoses to a carburator fitted to the bulkhead.
              > >
              > > His rig was prop mounted flywheel side, I guess if prop mounted PTO side (on a redrive or taper shaft) on a tractor rig the inlet tubes would be easy, running straight back off the heads into a flange on a carb 12-18" behind the motor. Heat would need watching as the head heat might cook the rubber tubes.
              > >
              > > What do you guys think? Fairly easy to do by rigging a pair of adapter nbends off the top of the stock manifold, longer inlet tracts might give better power too?
              > >
              > > Kev
              > >
              >
            Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.