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RE: [Slovak-World] Re: Eureka!! or Brezina?

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  • Caye Caswick
    I vaguely remember the mention of the back of a map -- and maybe a tourist or bike/hiking map at that -- but then my mind s sometimes like a collander. I think
    Message 1 of 25 , Jul 29, 2004
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      I vaguely remember the mention of the back of a map --
      and maybe a tourist or bike/hiking map at that -- but
      then my mind's sometimes like a collander.

      I think I printed out that e-mail and stuffed it into
      a huge redwell on the floor of my genealogy room --
      unfortunately, no particular order, but if I run
      across it, I'll repost it.


      Caye



      --- Helen Fedor <hfed@...> wrote:

      > I think this info was taken from the back of a map.
      > Since the "Vlastivedny slovnik..." is such a basic
      > resource, I'm guessing that they took the test from
      > there and made a typo (a whopper, apparently) when
      > expanding the abbreviations. I also noticed that
      > this info says that the village "was heavily damaged
      > in 1944", while my text said that it "was heavily
      > damaged by the Germans in 1944". A little editing
      > for space, no doubt.
      >
      > Helen
      >
      >
      >
      > >>> JArmata@... 7/29/2004 3:48:44
      > PM >>>
      > I was following the email that was sent in:
      >
      > Brezina C3: Obec sa spomlna od r. 1300 ako
      > zemiansky
      > majetok, neskor*ie patrila niekork�m majite�om,
      > v r. 1449
      > mal majetok v z�lohu J. Jiskra. V r. 1944 obec
      > silno po*koden�.
      > S�cas�ou boli osady Hal�m, Hegyalja a Nyri.
      > Kostol barokovo-klasicistick� z r.
      > 1785, kostol referen�n�z r. 1801.Z19.stor.
      > zachovan� hlinen�
      > domy s valbovou strechou zoraden� za sebou v
      > roz�ahl�ch dvoroch.
      >
      > I don't have the original email anymore so don't
      > know where it came
      > from. But yours does sound like it means reformed.
      >
      > Joe
      >
      >
      > -----Original Message-----
      > From: Helen Fedor [mailto:hfed@...]
      > Sent: Thursday, July 29, 2004 3:42 PM
      > To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com
      > Subject: RE: [Slovak-World] Re: Eureka!! or Brezina?
      >
      >
      > I'm confused. My text in "Vlastivedny slovnik..."
      > says:
      >
      > "Kostol gr. k. barok.-klas. z 1785. Kostol ref.
      > klas. z 1801, vez^a z
      > konca 19. stor."
      >
      > Yours must be a little different.
      >
      >
      > Helen
      >
      >
      >
      > >>> JArmata@... 7/29/2004 3:22:39
      > PM >>>
      > I first read the word as reformovany~ too
      > (Reformed), but it's
      > referencny~, a different word (as you realize, the
      > "z" at the end is
      > an independent word, going with 1801 - "from 1801").
      > I'm guessing the
      > 3rd letter from the end is a "c", in my email it
      > appears as an "e"
      > with a backward slash over it - all the special
      > characters appear as
      > gibberish in the message on my system.
      >
      > Joe
      >
      >
      >
      > -----Original Message-----
      > From: Helen Fedor [mailto:hfed@...]
      > Sent: Thursday, July 29, 2004 11:07 AM
      > To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com
      > Subject: RE: [Slovak-World] Re: Eureka!! or Brezina?
      >
      >
      > Joe,
      > I just had one of those brainstorms-at-2am,
      > except that it
      > happened just now. In my translation for Caye about
      > Brezina I said
      > that Brezina's "Lutheran church was built in 1801 in
      > the Classical
      > style". Down below, you wondered about "kostol
      > referencny" as a
      > referential church.
      > A big dope slap to both of us. "Kostol:
      > ref." means a church
      > belonging to the 'Reformovana cirkev' or the
      > Reformed Christian Church
      > in Slovakia = the Calvinists . A Lutheran church
      > would be designated
      > "Kostol: ev." (Evanjelicka cirkev). Calvinists
      > make sense as they're
      > much more common in southern Zemplin than Lutherans.
      >
      > Helen
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > >>> JArmata@... 7/28/2004 9:43:32
      > AM >>>
      > A "valbova strecha" is a Pavilion hipped roof, a
      > four-sided roof. See
      > image at
      >
      >
      http://www.kmbeta.sk/pages/mainModules/Calculation/pages/valbova/va_za
      >
      >
      >
      > d.php
      >
      > I think a "kostol referencny" is an ecclesiastical
      > term for a type of
      > parish church (something like a referential
      > church?). There's an old
      > office called a referendary, a legal expert who
      > handles appeals, it
      > might be connected to that. So the phrase means "a
      > referential?
      > church from 1801".
      >
      > Joe
      >
      >
      >
      > -----Original Message-----
      > From: Gerald J. Sabo [mailto:gsabo@...]
      > Sent: Wednesday, July 28, 2004 9:14 AM
      > To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com
      > Subject: Re: [Slovak-World] Re: Eureka!! or Brezina?
      >
      >
      > Translation: Brezina C3[?: The village/town is
      > mentioned
      > from 1300 as a petty nobleman's property, later it
      > belonged
      > to certain owners, in 1449 Jan Jiskra [Czech
      > military/historical figure] had the property as
      > security
      > [probably for some loan]. In 1944 the village/town
      > was
      > seriously damaged. Parts [of it] were the
      > settlements
      > Halam, Hegeyalia, a Nyri. The church is
      > Baroque-Neo-Classical from 1785, the church was
      > [renovated??] in 1801. From the 19th century are
      > preserved earthen/clay homes with [??} roofs, [the
      > houses were] arranged [one after] another in
      > extensive/extended [court]yards--this is the best I
      > can do for you--Jerry Sabo.
      >
      > > Brezina C3: Obec sa spomlna od r. 1300 ako
      > zemiansky
      > > majetok, neskor*ie patrila niekork�m majite�om,
      > v r. 1449
      > > mal majetok v z�lohu J. Jiskra. V r. 1944 obec
      > silno po*koden�.
      > > S�cas�ou boli osady Hal�m, Hegyalja a Nyri.
      > Kostol barokovo-klasicistick� z r.
      > > 1785, kostol referen�n�z r. 1801.Z19.stor.
      > zachovan� hlinen�
      > > domy s valbovou strechou zoraden� za sebou v
      > roz�ahl�ch dvoroch.
      > >
      > > Ron
      >
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      > Terms of Service.
      >
      >




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    • Sara Peticiously
      ... Calvinist -- not that I ve never heard it, but I really know nothing about Calvinists
      Message 2 of 25 , Jul 30, 2004
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        >WOW, that's the term my cousin used in her letter --
        Calvinist -- not that I've never heard it, but I
        really know nothing about Calvinists <

        I believe they were admirers of our thirtieth President.

        RU ;-)




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      • Caye Caswick
        I MISSED that name -- glad to see Sara s back -- Caye ... __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail is new and improved - Check it out!
        Message 3 of 25 , Jul 30, 2004
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          I MISSED that name -- glad to see Sara's back --


          Caye



          --- Sara Peticiously <sandman6294@...> wrote:

          > >WOW, that's the term my cousin used in her letter
          > --
          > Calvinist -- not that I've never heard it, but I
          > really know nothing about Calvinists <
          >
          > I believe they were admirers of our thirtieth
          > President.
          >
          > RU ;-)
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > ---------------------------------
          > Do you Yahoo!?
          > Yahoo! Mail is new and improved - Check it out!
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been
          > removed]
          >
          >




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        • amiak27
          I proofed the scanned document and made some corrections on a Slovak keyboard to get the letters correct. I was in a hurry and did not proof the scanning and
          Message 4 of 25 , Jul 30, 2004
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            I proofed the scanned document and made some corrections on a Slovak
            keyboard to get the letters correct. I was in a hurry and did not
            proof the scanning and it missed some items = primarily the š (or s^
            if the original does not come through).

            The next paragraph is what I originally posted, the one following
            that is the proofed version.

            Brezina C3: Obec sa spomlna od r. 1300 ako zemiansky majetok,
            neskor*ie patrila niekorkým majite¾om, v r. 1449 mal majetok v zálohu
            J. Jiskra. V r. 1944 obec silno po*kodená. Súcas·ou boli osady
            Halám, Hegyalja a Nyri. Kostol barokovo-klasicistický z r. > 1785,
            kostol referenènýz r. 1801.Z19.stor. zachované hlinené domy s
            valbovou strechou zoradené za sebou v roz¾ahlých dvoroch.

            Brezina C3: Obec sa spomína od r. 1300 ako zemiansky majetok,
            neskoršie patrila niekolkým majite¾om, v r. 1449 mal majetok v zálohu
            J. Jiskra. V r. 1944 obec silno poškodená. Súèasou boli osady
            Halám, Hegyalja a Nyri. Kostol barokovo-klasicistický z r. > 1785,
            kostol referenèný z r. 1801.Z 19. stor. zachované hlinené domy s
            valbovou strechou zoradené za sebou v roz¾ahlých dvoroch.

            If this posting comes through with the accented letters distorted I
            will experiment with a repeat post with the Language box checked
            as "Czech" instead of "English".

            Ron





            --- In Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com, "Armata, Joseph R. (JArmata)"
            <JArmata@g...> wrote:
            > I first read the word as reformovany~ too (Reformed), but it's
            > referencny~, a different word (as you realize, the "z" at the end is
            > an independent word, going with 1801 - "from 1801"). I'm guessing
            the
            > 3rd letter from the end is a "c", in my email it appears as an "e"
            > with a backward slash over it - all the special characters appear as
            > gibberish in the message on my system.
            >
            > Joe
            >
            >
            >
            > -----Original Message-----
            > From: Helen Fedor [mailto:hfed@l...]
            > Sent: Thursday, July 29, 2004 11:07 AM
            > To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com
            > Subject: RE: [Slovak-World] Re: Eureka!! or Brezina?
            >
            >
            > Joe,
            > I just had one of those brainstorms-at-2am, except that it
            > happened just now. In my translation for Caye about Brezina I said
            > that Brezina's "Lutheran church was built in 1801 in the Classical
            > style". Down below, you wondered about "kostol referencny" as a
            > referential church.
            > A big dope slap to both of us. "Kostol: ref." means a church
            > belonging to the 'Reformovana cirkev' or the Reformed Christian
            Church
            > in Slovakia = the Calvinists . A Lutheran church would be
            designated
            > "Kostol: ev." (Evanjelicka cirkev). Calvinists make sense as
            they're
            > much more common in southern Zemplin than Lutherans.
            >
            > Helen
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > >>> JArmata@g... 7/28/2004 9:43:32 AM >>>
            > A "valbova strecha" is a Pavilion hipped roof, a four-sided roof.
            See
            > image at
            >
            >
            http://www.kmbeta.sk/pages/mainModules/Calculation/pages/valbova/va_za
            >
            > d.php
            >
            > I think a "kostol referencny" is an ecclesiastical term for a type
            of
            > parish church (something like a referential church?). There's an
            old
            > office called a referendary, a legal expert who handles appeals, it
            > might be connected to that. So the phrase means "a referential?
            > church from 1801".
            >
            > Joe
            >
            >
            >
            > -----Original Message-----
            > From: Gerald J. Sabo [mailto:gsabo@j...]
            > Sent: Wednesday, July 28, 2004 9:14 AM
            > To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com
            > Subject: Re: [Slovak-World] Re: Eureka!! or Brezina?
            >
            >
            > Translation: Brezina C3[?: The village/town is
            > mentioned
            > from 1300 as a petty nobleman's property, later it
            > belonged
            > to certain owners, in 1449 Jan Jiskra [Czech
            > military/historical figure] had the property as
            > security
            > [probably for some loan]. In 1944 the village/town
            > was
            > seriously damaged. Parts [of it] were the
            > settlements
            > Halam, Hegeyalia, a Nyri. The church is
            > Baroque-Neo-Classical from 1785, the church was
            > [renovated??] in 1801. From the 19th century are
            > preserved earthen/clay homes with [??} roofs, [the
            > houses were] arranged [one after] another in
            > extensive/extended [court]yards--this is the best I
            > can do for you--Jerry Sabo.
            >
            > > Brezina C3: Obec sa spomlna od r. 1300 ako
            > zemiansky
            > > majetok, neskor*ie patrila niekorkým majite¾om,
            > v r. 1449
            > > mal majetok v zálohu J. Jiskra. V r. 1944 obec
            > silno po*kodená.
            > > Súcas·ou boli osady Halám, Hegyalja a Nyri.
            > Kostol barokovo-klasicistický z r.
            > > 1785, kostol referenènýz r. 1801.Z19.stor.
            > zachované hlinené
            > > domy s valbovou strechou zoradené za sebou v
            > roz¾ahlých dvoroch.
            > >
            > > Ron
            >
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >
            >
            >
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          • Caye Caswick
            I got a little more info (hopefully, it s in Slovak, so I personally can t tell exactly how much more or different it is) -- I ll post it to the images section
            Message 5 of 25 , Aug 1 12:39 PM
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              I got a little more info (hopefully, it's in Slovak,
              so I personally can't tell exactly how much more or
              different it is) -- I'll post it to the images section
              from work on Monday -- I've got access to a scanner
              there. Thanks to Jerry Sabo and the Slovak Institute
              in Cleveland -- all very cool people. Also three
              other towns also in Zemplen which are similar in
              spelling to Kolbasa (now Brezina) -- which I can also
              share, maybe someone will benefit from the knowledge.


              Caye



              --- amiak27 <rmat@...> wrote:

              > I proofed the scanned document and made some
              > corrections on a Slovak
              > keyboard to get the letters correct. I was in a
              > hurry and did not
              > proof the scanning and it missed some items =
              > primarily the � (or s^
              > if the original does not come through).
              >
              > The next paragraph is what I originally posted, the
              > one following
              > that is the proofed version.
              >
              > Brezina C3: Obec sa spomlna od r. 1300 ako zemiansky
              > majetok,
              > neskor*ie patrila niekork�m majite�om, v r. 1449 mal
              > majetok v z�lohu
              > J. Jiskra. V r. 1944 obec silno po*koden�. S�cas�ou
              > boli osady
              > Hal�m, Hegyalja a Nyri. Kostol
              > barokovo-klasicistick� z r. > 1785,
              > kostol referen�n�z r. 1801.Z19.stor. zachovan�
              > hlinen� domy s
              > valbovou strechou zoraden� za sebou v roz�ahl�ch
              > dvoroch.
              >
              > Brezina C3: Obec sa spom�na od r. 1300 ako zemiansky
              > majetok,
              > neskor�ie patrila niekolk�m majite�om, v r. 1449 mal
              > majetok v z�lohu
              > J. Jiskra. V r. 1944 obec silno po�koden�. S��as�ou
              > boli osady
              > Hal�m, Hegyalja a Nyri. Kostol
              > barokovo-klasicistick� z r. > 1785,
              > kostol referen�n� z r. 1801.Z 19. stor. zachovan�
              > hlinen� domy s
              > valbovou strechou zoraden� za sebou v roz�ahl�ch
              > dvoroch.
              >
              > If this posting comes through with the accented
              > letters distorted I
              > will experiment with a repeat post with the Language
              > box checked
              > as "Czech" instead of "English".
              >
              > Ron
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > --- In Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com, "Armata, Joseph
              > R. (JArmata)"
              > <JArmata@g...> wrote:
              > > I first read the word as reformovany~ too
              > (Reformed), but it's
              > > referencny~, a different word (as you realize, the
              > "z" at the end is
              > > an independent word, going with 1801 - "from
              > 1801"). I'm guessing
              > the
              > > 3rd letter from the end is a "c", in my email it
              > appears as an "e"
              > > with a backward slash over it - all the special
              > characters appear as
              > > gibberish in the message on my system.
              > >
              > > Joe
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > -----Original Message-----
              > > From: Helen Fedor [mailto:hfed@l...]
              > > Sent: Thursday, July 29, 2004 11:07 AM
              > > To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com
              > > Subject: RE: [Slovak-World] Re: Eureka!! or
              > Brezina?
              > >
              > >
              > > Joe,
              > > I just had one of those brainstorms-at-2am,
              > except that it
              > > happened just now. In my translation for Caye
              > about Brezina I said
              > > that Brezina's "Lutheran church was built in 1801
              > in the Classical
              > > style". Down below, you wondered about "kostol
              > referencny" as a
              > > referential church.
              > > A big dope slap to both of us. "Kostol: ref."
              > means a church
              > > belonging to the 'Reformovana cirkev' or the
              > Reformed Christian
              > Church
              > > in Slovakia = the Calvinists . A Lutheran church
              > would be
              > designated
              > > "Kostol: ev." (Evanjelicka cirkev). Calvinists
              > make sense as
              > they're
              > > much more common in southern Zemplin than
              > Lutherans.
              > >
              > > Helen
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > >>> JArmata@g... 7/28/2004 9:43:32 AM >>>
              > > A "valbova strecha" is a Pavilion hipped roof, a
              > four-sided roof.
              > See
              > > image at
              > >
              > >
              >
              http://www.kmbeta.sk/pages/mainModules/Calculation/pages/valbova/va_za
              > >
              > > d.php
              > >
              > > I think a "kostol referencny" is an ecclesiastical
              > term for a type
              > of
              > > parish church (something like a referential
              > church?). There's an
              > old
              > > office called a referendary, a legal expert who
              > handles appeals, it
              > > might be connected to that. So the phrase means
              > "a referential?
              > > church from 1801".
              > >
              > > Joe
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > -----Original Message-----
              > > From: Gerald J. Sabo [mailto:gsabo@j...]
              > > Sent: Wednesday, July 28, 2004 9:14 AM
              > > To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com
              > > Subject: Re: [Slovak-World] Re: Eureka!! or
              > Brezina?
              > >
              > >
              > > Translation: Brezina C3[?: The village/town is
              > > mentioned
              > > from 1300 as a petty nobleman's property, later it
              > > belonged
              > > to certain owners, in 1449 Jan Jiskra [Czech
              > > military/historical figure] had the property as
              > > security
              > > [probably for some loan]. In 1944 the village/town
              > > was
              > > seriously damaged. Parts [of it] were the
              > > settlements
              > > Halam, Hegeyalia, a Nyri. The church is
              > > Baroque-Neo-Classical from 1785, the church was
              > > [renovated??] in 1801. From the 19th century are
              > > preserved earthen/clay homes with [??} roofs, [the
              > > houses were] arranged [one after] another in
              > > extensive/extended [court]yards--this is the best
              > I
              > > can do for you--Jerry Sabo.
              > >
              > > > Brezina C3: Obec sa spomlna od r. 1300 ako
              > > zemiansky
              > > > majetok, neskor*ie patrila niekork�m majite�om,
              > > v r. 1449
              > > > mal majetok v z�lohu J. Jiskra. V r. 1944 obec
              > > silno po*koden�.
              > > > S�cas�ou boli osady Hal�m, Hegyalja a Nyri.
              > > Kostol barokovo-klasicistick� z r.
              > > > 1785, kostol referen�n�z r. 1801.Z19.stor.
              > > zachovan� hlinen�
              > > > domy s valbovou strechou zoraden� za sebou v
              > > roz�ahl�ch dvoroch.
              > > >
              > > > Ron
              > >
              > >
              > > [Non-text portions of this message have been
              > removed]
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
              > > --------------------~-->
              > > Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion
              > Toolbar.
              > > Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free!
              > >
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              > >
              >
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              === message truncated ===




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