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Re: [Slovak-World] Re: Tradicie slovenskej rodiny (Slovak FamilyTraditions)

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  • jarmata@gsphdean.gsph.pitt.edu
    I think roznicka is a typo for zornicka , same as in the 3rd verse. (and jobud is probably pobud ? to awaken someone) In the 3rd verse, it looks like
    Message 1 of 9 , Feb 16, 2003
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      I think "roznicka" is a typo for "zornicka", same as in the 3rd verse.
      (and "jobud'" is probably "pobud'"? to awaken someone)

      In the 3rd verse, it looks like the 2nd line is My sweetheart won't wake
      me up ("ma" direct object here of "nebudi"), and the last line Because
      she's glad to see me (she likes me).

      Joe


      > Boleraz, Boleraz, zeleny Boleraz
      > Boleraz, Boleraz, zeleny Boleraz
      > Prenocuj, s~ujajko,
      > Prenocuj, s~ujajko,
      > Prenocuj, ty u nas.
      >
      > Ja by prenocoval
      > Siva holubic~ka
      > Ja by prenocoval
      > Siva holubic~ka
      > Len ma potom jobud',
      > Len ma potom jobud',
      > Ked vyjde roznic~ka.
      >
      > Zornic~ka vychodi,
      > Mila ma nebudi,
      > Zornic~ka vychodi,
      > Mila ma nebudi,
      > A to vs~etko preto,
      > Z~e ma rada vidi.
      >
      > I can't understand all the words - - can someone fill us in? This is
      > what I get:
      >
      > Boleraz, Boleraz (village in Western Slovakia)
      > Green Boleraz
      > Spend the night, young man
      > Spend the night with us.
      >
      > I would stay the night,
      > My little grey dove,
      > But wake me up
      > When ....... (can't find the meaning of roznic~ka)
      >
      > When the morning star comes out
      > My sweetheart won't be here
      > All because
      > He's happy to marry me?? (not sure here)
      >
      > Bill's message said that the suitor had to be gone before dawn, hence
      > the morning star. At the risk of sounding naive, just what was
      > allowed, during these nocturnal visits? I remember Helene telling us
      > that in some villages the sheets from the wedding bed were paraded
      > through the streets the next day, to prove the bride had been a
      > virgin. What if there was hanky-panky before the wedding? Or, did
      > traditions vary?
      >
      > Barbara Koeller
      >
      > --- In Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com, "Bill Tarkulich" <bill@i...>
      > wrote:
      > > Tradicie slovenskej rodiny (Slovak Family Traditions) - BOOK REVIEW
      > >
      > > VEDA, Vydavatelstvo Slovenskej akademie vied i 1997. ISBN 80-224-
      > 0461-6,
      > > 242 pages
      > >
      > > Daniel Kisha [daniel.kisha@p...] just shipped me a copy of this
      > > book. Excellent. Written in Slovak, but the 34 pages in English
      > > describing various family customs and traditions, as a synopsis of
      > the
      > > larger Slovak text. Somewhat academic, but if you can get past the
      > > terminology (not difficult) you'll find it fascinating. The photos
      > are
      > > outstanding. 133 Black and white photos from 1920 to 1980, the
      > bulk of
      > > which are from 1935 to 1965. A must-have for anyone who wants to
      > > understand how our immigrant family lived (and why they acted the
      > way
      > > they did once they got to America.)
      > >
      > > Primarily focused around life in Western and Central Slovakia. No
      > focus
      > > on Rusyns, but that's OK, I take what I can get.
      > >
      > > The reader must appreciate that this work is somewhat of a
      > > generalization, and customs vary from village to village. One of the
      > > most important cultural books in my collection.
      > >
      > > Here are some brief passages, sure to stir some discussion herein:
      > >
      > > Egads! ---
      > >
      > > ".... A socially recognized premarital relationship was the first
      > step
      > > towards the wedding. A girl's chosen boy came to see his girl at
      > night,
      > > often to a common room if she did not sleep in a chamber. A family
      > knew
      > > about him. But he had to leave before dawn. The older generation
      > > considers it a disgrace that nowadays young people hold each
      > others's
      > > hands, but they did not forbid night visits. " pg. 219
      > >
      > > Here's a consideration for people who can't find a birth
      > record: "...
      > > Young mothers took their small children with them even to seasonal
      > work
      > > lasting several weeks. It sometimes happened that a baby was born
      > on a
      > > great estate while its mother was laboring there...." pg. 217
      > >
      > > "...from 1921-1930 more than 17% of the children died in the first
      > year
      > > of life. Parents did not go into mourning for the small children;
      > > .....Baptism was the entry of the new-born baby into society. If
      > he/she
      > > died before christening, he/she was buried on the edge of the
      > cemetery."
      > > pg. 217
      > >
      > > ".... A village was rather closed in many of its social
      > manifestations.
      > > Villagers had nicknames for other villages. Almost each village had
      > a
      > > second, derisive name given it by its neighbourhood. Young men
      > could not
      > > go to parties and philander in other villages. If they dared to go
      > > somewhere else, they seldom avoided fights. A girl who married a man
      > > belonging to a strange village had a lower value than a local
      > > bride...... Villagers differed from the inhabitants of other
      > villages in
      > > dialect, clothes or other features, although a (you) would not be
      > able
      > > to see the slightest difference... Reelations were polite and
      > friendly
      > > according to social customs but only relatives visited each other in
      > > families."
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > Bill Tarkulich
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >
      > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
      > Slovak-World-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
      >
      >
      >
      > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
    • William C. Wormuth
      Ja beech prenocoval siva holubic~ka kebys ma zbudila nez~ vyjede zornic~ka ... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      Message 2 of 9 , Feb 16, 2003
      • 0 Attachment
        Ja beech prenocoval
        siva holubic~ka
        kebys ma zbudila
        nez~ vyjede zornic~ka


        >
        >
        > Ja by prenocoval
        > Siva holubic~ka
        > Ja by prenocoval
        > Siva holubic~ka
        > Len ma potom jobud',
        > Len ma potom jobud',
        > Ked vyjde roznic~ka.
        >
        > Zornic~ka vychodi,
        > Mila ma nebudi,
        > Zornic~ka vychodi,
        > Mila ma nebudi,
        > A to vs~etko preto,
        > Z~e ma rada vidi.
        >
        > I can't understand all the words - - can someone fill us in? This is
        > what I get:
        >
        > Boleraz, Boleraz (village in Western Slovakia)
        > Green Boleraz
        > Spend the night, young man
        > Spend the night with us.
        >
        > I would stay the night,
        > My little grey dove,
        > But wake me up
        > When ....... (can't find the meaning of roznic~ka)
        >
        > When the morning star comes out
        > My sweetheart won't be here
        > All because
        > He's happy to marry me?? (not sure here)
        >
        > Bill's message said that the suitor had to be gone before dawn, hence
        > the morning star. At the risk of sounding naive, just what was
        > allowed, during these nocturnal visits? I remember Helene telling us
        > that in some villages the sheets from the wedding bed were paraded
        > through the streets the next day, to prove the bride had been a
        > virgin. What if there was hanky-panky before the wedding? Or, did
        > traditions vary?
        >
        > Barbara Koeller
        >
        > --- In Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com, "Bill Tarkulich" <bill@i...>
        > wrote:
        > Tradicie slovenskej rodiny (Slovak Family Traditions) - BOOK REVIEW
        >
        > VEDA, Vydavatelstvo Slovenskej akademie vied i 1997. ISBN 80-224-
        > 0461-6,
        > 242 pages
        >
        > Daniel Kisha [daniel.kisha@p...] just shipped me a copy of this
        > book. Excellent. Written in Slovak, but the 34 pages in English
        > describing various family customs and traditions, as a synopsis of
        > the
        > larger Slovak text. Somewhat academic, but if you can get past the
        > terminology (not difficult) you'll find it fascinating. The photos
        > are
        > outstanding. 133 Black and white photos from 1920 to 1980, the
        > bulk of
        > which are from 1935 to 1965. A must-have for anyone who wants to
        > understand how our immigrant family lived (and why they acted the
        > way
        > they did once they got to America.)
        >
        > Primarily focused around life in Western and Central Slovakia. No
        > focus
        > on Rusyns, but that's OK, I take what I can get.
        >
        > The reader must appreciate that this work is somewhat of a
        > generalization, and customs vary from village to village. One of the
        > most important cultural books in my collection.
        >
        > Here are some brief passages, sure to stir some discussion herein:
        >
        > Egads! ---
        >
        > ".... A socially recognized premarital relationship was the first
        > step
        > towards the wedding. A girl's chosen boy came to see his girl at
        > night,
        > often to a common room if she did not sleep in a chamber. A family
        > knew
        > about him. But he had to leave before dawn. The older generation
        > considers it a disgrace that nowadays young people hold each
        > others's
        > hands, but they did not forbid night visits. " pg. 219
        >
        > Here's a consideration for people who can't find a birth
        > record: "...
        > Young mothers took their small children with them even to seasonal
        > wor
        > lasting several weeks. It sometimes happened that a baby was born
        > on a
        > great estate while its mother was laboring there...." pg. 217
        >
        > "...from 1921-1930 more than 17% of the children died in the first
        > year
        > of life. Parents did not go into mourning for the small children;
        > .....Baptism was the entry of the new-born baby into society. If
        > he/she
        > died before christening, he/she was buried on the edge of the
        > cemetery."
        > pg. 217
        >
        > ".... A village was rather closed in many of its social
        > manifestations.
        > Villagers had nicknames for other villages. Almost each village had
        > a
        > second, derisive name given it by its neighbourhood. Young men
        > could not
        > go to parties and philander in other villages. If they dared to go
        > somewhere else, they seldom avoided fights. A girl who married a man
        > belonging to a strange village had a lower value than a local
        > bride...... Villagers differed from the inhabitants of other
        > villages in
        > dialect, clothes or other features, although a (you) would not be
        > able
        > to see the slightest difference... Reelations were polite and
        > friendly
        > according to social customs but only relatives visited each other in
        > families."
        >
        >
        >
        > Bill Tarkulich
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >


        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Barbara Koeller
        Thanks, Joe. Woops, jobud is my typo for ZOBUD - - from zobudit , to wake up. I shouldn t post messages late at night when I can t see straight! But
        Message 3 of 9 , Feb 16, 2003
        • 0 Attachment
          Thanks, Joe.

          Woops, "jobud" is my typo for ZOBUD' - - from zobudit', to wake up. I
          shouldn't post messages late at night when I can't see straight! But
          "roznic~ka" is exactly as I copied it from a Slovak Folk Music web page at

          http://akg.cwc.net/boleraz%20boleraz.htm

          Maybe Joe is right, that the "z" and "r" were transposed and it should be
          "zornic~ka." No wonder I couldn't find "roznic~ka" in a dictionary.

          Actually, the music as well as words are at this link, for a few other
          Slovak songs as well. "Slovenske mamic~ky" and "Tancuj, tancuj" are there,
          too. But the music is all "midi" there and serves only to give you an idea
          of the melody.

          Barbara Koeller

          At 11:32 AM 2/16/2003 -0500, you wrote:

          >I think "roznicka" is a typo for "zornicka", same as in the 3rd verse.
          > (and "jobud'" is probably "pobud'"? to awaken someone)
          >
          >In the 3rd verse, it looks like the 2nd line is My sweetheart won't wake
          >me up ("ma" direct object here of "nebudi"), and the last line Because
          >she's glad to see me (she likes me).
          >
          >Joe
          >
          >
          > > Boleraz, Boleraz, zeleny Boleraz
          > > Boleraz, Boleraz, zeleny Boleraz
          > > Prenocuj, s~ujajko,
          > > Prenocuj, s~ujajko,
          > > Prenocuj, ty u nas.
          > >
          > > Ja by prenocoval
          > > Siva holubic~ka
          > > Ja by prenocoval
          > > Siva holubic~ka
          > > Len ma potom jobud',
          > > Len ma potom jobud',
          > > Ked vyjde roznic~ka.
          > >
          > > Zornic~ka vychodi,
          > > Mila ma nebudi,
          > > Zornic~ka vychodi,
          > > Mila ma nebudi,
          > > A to vs~etko preto,
          > > Z~e ma rada vidi.
          > >
          > > I can't understand all the words - - can someone fill us in? This is
          > > what I get:
          > >
          > > Boleraz, Boleraz (village in Western Slovakia)
          > > Green Boleraz
          > > Spend the night, young man
          > > Spend the night with us.
          > >
          > > I would stay the night,
          > > My little grey dove,
          > > But wake me up
          > > When ....... (can't find the meaning of roznic~ka)
          > >
          > > When the morning star comes out
          > > My sweetheart won't be here
          > > All because
          > > He's happy to marry me?? (not sure here)
          > >
          > > Bill's message said that the suitor had to be gone before dawn, hence
          > > the morning star. At the risk of sounding naive, just what was
          > > allowed, during these nocturnal visits? I remember Helene telling us
          > > that in some villages the sheets from the wedding bed were paraded
          > > through the streets the next day, to prove the bride had been a
          > > virgin. What if there was hanky-panky before the wedding? Or, did
          > > traditions vary?
          > >
          > > Barbara Koeller
          > >
          > > --- In Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com, "Bill Tarkulich" <bill@i...>
          > > wrote:
          > > > Tradicie slovenskej rodiny (Slovak Family Traditions) - BOOK REVIEW
          > > >
          > > > VEDA, Vydavatelstvo Slovenskej akademie vied i 1997. ISBN 80-224-
          > > 0461-6,
          > > > 242 pages
          > > >
          > > > Daniel Kisha [daniel.kisha@p...] just shipped me a copy of this
          > > > book. Excellent. Written in Slovak, but the 34 pages in English
          > > > describing various family customs and traditions, as a synopsis of
          > > the
          > > > larger Slovak text. Somewhat academic, but if you can get past the
          > > > terminology (not difficult) you'll find it fascinating. The photos
          > > are
          > > > outstanding. 133 Black and white photos from 1920 to 1980, the
          > > bulk of
          > > > which are from 1935 to 1965. A must-have for anyone who wants to
          > > > understand how our immigrant family lived (and why they acted the
          > > way
          > > > they did once they got to America.)
          > > >
          > > > Primarily focused around life in Western and Central Slovakia. No
          > > focus
          > > > on Rusyns, but that's OK, I take what I can get.
          > > >
          > > > The reader must appreciate that this work is somewhat of a
          > > > generalization, and customs vary from village to village. One of the
          > > > most important cultural books in my collection.
          > > >
          > > > Here are some brief passages, sure to stir some discussion herein:
          > > >
          > > > Egads! ---
          > > >
          > > > ".... A socially recognized premarital relationship was the first
          > > step
          > > > towards the wedding. A girl's chosen boy came to see his girl at
          > > night,
          > > > often to a common room if she did not sleep in a chamber. A family
          > > knew
          > > > about him. But he had to leave before dawn. The older generation
          > > > considers it a disgrace that nowadays young people hold each
          > > others's
          > > > hands, but they did not forbid night visits. " pg. 219
          > > >
          > > > Here's a consideration for people who can't find a birth
          > > record: "...
          > > > Young mothers took their small children with them even to seasonal
          > > work
          > > > lasting several weeks. It sometimes happened that a baby was born
          > > on a
          > > > great estate while its mother was laboring there...." pg. 217
          > > >
          > > > "...from 1921-1930 more than 17% of the children died in the first
          > > year
          > > > of life. Parents did not go into mourning for the small children;
          > > > .....Baptism was the entry of the new-born baby into society. If
          > > he/she
          > > > died before christening, he/she was buried on the edge of the
          > > cemetery."
          > > > pg. 217
          > > >
          > > > ".... A village was rather closed in many of its social
          > > manifestations.
          > > > Villagers had nicknames for other villages. Almost each village had
          > > a
          > > > second, derisive name given it by its neighbourhood. Young men
          > > could not
          > > > go to parties and philander in other villages. If they dared to go
          > > > somewhere else, they seldom avoided fights. A girl who married a man
          > > > belonging to a strange village had a lower value than a local
          > > > bride...... Villagers differed from the inhabitants of other
          > > villages in
          > > > dialect, clothes or other features, although a (you) would not be
          > > able
          > > > to see the slightest difference... Reelations were polite and
          > > friendly
          > > > according to social customs but only relatives visited each other in
          > > > families."
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > > > Bill Tarkulich
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          > >
          > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
          > > Slovak-World-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
          >
          >To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
          >Slovak-World-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
          >
          >
          >
          >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >---
          >Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.
          >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
          >Version: 6.0.449 / Virus Database: 251 - Release Date: 1/27/2003



          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • e.gernat@att.net
          I checked my book from Boleraz and found a few differences,but since I do not speak Slovak I do not know if my version would change any meaning. I put my
          Message 4 of 9 , Feb 17, 2003
          • 0 Attachment
            I checked my book from Boleraz and found a few differences,but since I do not
            speak Slovak I do not know if my version would change any meaning. I put my
            changes in () below Edie
            > I think "roznicka" is a typo for "zornicka", same as in the 3rd verse.
            > (and "jobud'" is probably "pobud'"? to awaken someone)
            >
            > In the 3rd verse, it looks like the 2nd line is My sweetheart won't wake
            > me up ("ma" direct object here of "nebudi"), and the last line Because
            > she's glad to see me (she likes me).
            >
            > Joe
            >
            >
            > > Boleraz, Boleraz, zeleny Boleraz
            > > Boleraz, Boleraz, zeleny Boleraz
            > > Prenocuj, s~ujajko,(suhajko)
            > > Prenocuj, s~ujajko,
            > > Prenocuj, ty u nas.
            > >
            > > Ja by prenocoval ( Ja bych prenocaval)
            > > Siva holubic~ka
            > > Ja by prenocoval
            > > Siva holubic~ka
            > > Len ma potom jobud',(kebys' ma vzbudila)
            > > Len ma potom jobud',(az vyde zornicka)
            > > Ked vyjde roznic~ka.
            > >
            > > Zornic~ka vychodi,
            > > Mila ma nebudi,
            > > Zornic~ka vychodi,
            > > Mila ma nebudi,
            > > A to vs~etko preto,
            > > Z~e ma rada vidi.
            > >
            > > I can't understand all the words - - can someone fill us in? This is
            > > what I get:
            > >
            > > Boleraz, Boleraz (village in Western Slovakia)
            > > Green Boleraz

            > > Spend the night, young man
            > > Spend the night with us.
            > >
            > > I would stay the night,
            > > My little grey dove,
            > > But wake me up
            > > When ....... (can't find the meaning of roznic~ka)
            > >
            > > When the morning star comes out
            > > My sweetheart won't be here
            > > All because
            > > He's happy to marry me?? (not sure here)
            > >
            > > Bill's message said that the suitor had to be gone before dawn, hence
            > > the morning star. At the risk of sounding naive, just what was
            > > allowed, during these nocturnal visits? I remember Helene telling us
            > > that in some villages the sheets from the wedding bed were paraded
            > > through the streets the next day, to prove the bride had been a
            > > virgin. What if there was hanky-panky before the wedding? Or, did
            > > traditions vary?
            > >
            > > Barbara Koeller
            > >
            > > --- In Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com, "Bill Tarkulich" <bill@i...>
            > > wrote:
            > > > Tradicie slovenskej rodiny (Slovak Family Traditions) - BOOK REVIEW
            > > >

            > > > VEDA, Vydavatelstvo Slovenskej akademie vied i 1997. ISBN 80-224-
            > > 0461-6,
            > > > 242 pages
            > > >
            > > > Daniel Kisha [daniel.kisha@p...] just shipped me a copy of this
            > > > book. Excellent. Written in Slovak, but the 34 pages in English
            > > > describing various family customs and traditions, as a synopsis of
            > > the
            > > > larger Slovak text. Somewhat academic, but if you can get past the
            > > > terminology (not difficult) you'll find it fascinating. The photos
            > > are
            > > > outstanding. 133 Black and white photos from 1920 to 1980, the
            > > bulk of
            > > > which are from 1935 to 1965. A must-have for anyone who wants to
            > > > understand how our immigrant family lived (and why they acted the
            > > way
            > > > they did once they got to America.)
            > > >
            > > > Primarily focused around life in Western and Central Slovakia. No
            > > focus
            > > > on Rusyns, but that's OK, I take what I can get.
            > > >
            > > > The reader must appreciate that this work is somewhat of a
            > > > generalization, and customs vary from village to village. One of the

            > > > most important cultural books in my collection.
            > > >
            > > > Here are some brief passages, sure to stir some discussion herein:
            > > >
            > > > Egads! ---
            > > >
            > > > ".... A socially recognized premarital relationship was the first
            > > step
            > > > towards the wedding. A girl's chosen boy came to see his girl at
            > > night,
            > > > often to a common room if she did not sleep in a chamber. A family
            > > knew
            > > > about him. But he had to leave before dawn. The older generation
            > > > considers it a disgrace that nowadays young people hold each
            > > others's
            > > > hands, but they did not forbid night visits. " pg. 219
            > > >
            > > > Here's a consideration for people who can't find a birth
            > > record: "...
            > > > Young mothers took their small children with them even to seasonal
            > > work
            > > > lasting several weeks. It sometimes happened that a baby was born
            > > on a
            > > > great estate while its mother was laboring there...." pg. 217
            > > >
            > > > "...from 1921-1930 more than 17% of the children died in the first
            > > year

            > > > of life. Parents did not go into mourning for the small children;
            > > > .....Baptism was the entry of the new-born baby into society. If
            > > he/she
            > > > died before christening, he/she was buried on the edge of the
            > > cemetery."
            > > > pg. 217
            > > >
            > > > ".... A village was rather closed in many of its social
            > > manifestations.
            > > > Villagers had nicknames for other villages. Almost each village had
            > > a
            > > > second, derisive name given it by its neighbourhood. Young men
            > > could not
            > > > go to parties and philander in other villages. If they dared to go
            > > > somewhere else, they seldom avoided fights. A girl who married a man
            > > > belonging to a strange village had a lower value than a local
            > > > bride...... Villagers differed from the inhabitants of other
            > > villages in
            > > > dialect, clothes or other features, although a (you) would not be
            > > able
            > > > to see the slightest difference... Reelations were polite and
            > > friendly
            > > > according to social customs but only relatives visited each other in

            > > > families."
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > > Bill Tarkulich
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            > >
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          • Vladimir Linder
            For your information: ZORNICKA is a MORNING STAR ROSNICKA is a TREE FROG
            Message 5 of 9 , Feb 17, 2003
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              For your information:

              ZORNICKA is a MORNING STAR

              ROSNICKA is a TREE FROG



              At 12:41 AM 2/18/2003 +0000, you wrote:
              >I checked my book from Boleraz and found a few differences,but since I do not
              >speak Slovak I do not know if my version would change any meaning. I put my
              >changes in () below Edie
              > > I think "roznicka" is a typo for "zornicka", same as in the 3rd verse.
              > > (and "jobud'" is probably "pobud'"? to awaken someone)
              > >
              > > In the 3rd verse, it looks like the 2nd line is My sweetheart won't wake
              > > me up ("ma" direct object here of "nebudi"), and the last line Because
              > > she's glad to see me (she likes me).
              > >
              > > Joe
              > >
              > >
              > > > Boleraz, Boleraz, zeleny Boleraz
              > > > Boleraz, Boleraz, zeleny Boleraz
              > > > Prenocuj, s~ujajko,(suhajko)
              > > > Prenocuj, s~ujajko,
              > > > Prenocuj, ty u nas.
              > > >
              > > > Ja by prenocoval ( Ja bych prenocaval)
              > > > Siva holubic~ka
              > > > Ja by prenocoval
              > > > Siva holubic~ka
              > > > Len ma potom jobud',(kebys' ma vzbudila)
              > > > Len ma potom jobud',(az vyde zornicka)
              > > > Ked vyjde roznic~ka.
              > > >
              > > > Zornic~ka vychodi,
              > > > Mila ma nebudi,
              > > > Zornic~ka vychodi,
              > > > Mila ma nebudi,
              > > > A to vs~etko preto,
              > > > Z~e ma rada vidi.
              > > >
              > > > I can't understand all the words - - can someone fill us in? This is
              > > > what I get:
              > > >
              > > > Boleraz, Boleraz (village in Western Slovakia)
              > > > Green Boleraz
              >
              > > > Spend the night, young man
              > > > Spend the night with us.
              > > >
              > > > I would stay the night,
              > > > My little grey dove,
              > > > But wake me up
              > > > When ....... (can't find the meaning of roznic~ka)
              > > >
              > > > When the morning star comes out
              > > > My sweetheart won't be here
              > > > All because
              > > > He's happy to marry me?? (not sure here)
              > > >
              > > > Bill's message said that the suitor had to be gone before dawn, hence
              > > > the morning star. At the risk of sounding naive, just what was
              > > > allowed, during these nocturnal visits? I remember Helene telling us
              > > > that in some villages the sheets from the wedding bed were paraded
              > > > through the streets the next day, to prove the bride had been a
              > > > virgin. What if there was hanky-panky before the wedding? Or, did
              > > > traditions vary?
              > > >
              > > > Barbara Koeller
              > > >
              > > > --- In Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com, "Bill Tarkulich" <bill@i...>
              > > > wrote:
              > > > > Tradicie slovenskej rodiny (Slovak Family Traditions) - BOOK REVIEW
              > > > >
              >
              > > > > VEDA, Vydavatelstvo Slovenskej akademie vied i 1997. ISBN 80-224-
              > > > 0461-6,
              > > > > 242 pages
              > > > >
              > > > > Daniel Kisha [daniel.kisha@p...] just shipped me a copy of this
              > > > > book. Excellent. Written in Slovak, but the 34 pages in English
              > > > > describing various family customs and traditions, as a synopsis of
              > > > the
              > > > > larger Slovak text. Somewhat academic, but if you can get past the
              > > > > terminology (not difficult) you'll find it fascinating. The photos
              > > > are
              > > > > outstanding. 133 Black and white photos from 1920 to 1980, the
              > > > bulk of
              > > > > which are from 1935 to 1965. A must-have for anyone who wants to
              > > > > understand how our immigrant family lived (and why they acted the
              > > > way
              > > > > they did once they got to America.)
              > > > >
              > > > > Primarily focused around life in Western and Central Slovakia. No
              > > > focus
              > > > > on Rusyns, but that's OK, I take what I can get.
              > > > >
              > > > > The reader must appreciate that this work is somewhat of a
              > > > > generalization, and customs vary from village to village. One of the
              >
              > > > > most important cultural books in my collection.
              > > > >
              > > > > Here are some brief passages, sure to stir some discussion herein:
              > > > >
              > > > > Egads! ---
              > > > >
              > > > > ".... A socially recognized premarital relationship was the first
              > > > step
              > > > > towards the wedding. A girl's chosen boy came to see his girl at
              > > > night,
              > > > > often to a common room if she did not sleep in a chamber. A family
              > > > knew
              > > > > about him. But he had to leave before dawn. The older generation
              > > > > considers it a disgrace that nowadays young people hold each
              > > > others's
              > > > > hands, but they did not forbid night visits. " pg. 219
              > > > >
              > > > > Here's a consideration for people who can't find a birth
              > > > record: "...
              > > > > Young mothers took their small children with them even to seasonal
              > > > work
              > > > > lasting several weeks. It sometimes happened that a baby was born
              > > > on a
              > > > > great estate while its mother was laboring there...." pg. 217
              > > > >
              > > > > "...from 1921-1930 more than 17% of the children died in the first
              > > > year
              >
              > > > > of life. Parents did not go into mourning for the small children;
              > > > > .....Baptism was the entry of the new-born baby into society. If
              > > > he/she
              > > > > died before christening, he/she was buried on the edge of the
              > > > cemetery."
              > > > > pg. 217
              > > > >
              > > > > ".... A village was rather closed in many of its social
              > > > manifestations.
              > > > > Villagers had nicknames for other villages. Almost each village had
              > > > a
              > > > > second, derisive name given it by its neighbourhood. Young men
              > > > could not
              > > > > go to parties and philander in other villages. If they dared to go
              > > > > somewhere else, they seldom avoided fights. A girl who married a man
              > > > > belonging to a strange village had a lower value than a local
              > > > > bride...... Villagers differed from the inhabitants of other
              > > > villages in
              > > > > dialect, clothes or other features, although a (you) would not be
              > > > able
              > > > > to see the slightest difference... Reelations were polite and
              > > > friendly
              > > > > according to social customs but only relatives visited each other in
              >
              > > > > families."
              > > > >
              > > > >
              > > > >
              > > > > Bill Tarkulich
              > > > >
              > > > >
              > > > >
              > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              > > >
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              > > > Slovak-World-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
              > > >
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            • helenezx@aol.com
              In a message dated 2/16/3 4:33:32 PM, jarmata@gsphdean.gsph.pitt.edu writes: delayed reply as i was away -
              Message 6 of 9 , Feb 28, 2003
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                In a message dated 2/16/3 4:33:32 PM, jarmata@... writes:

                delayed reply as i was away -

                << I remember Helene telling us
                > that in some villages the sheets from the wedding bed were paraded
                > through the streets the next day, to prove the bride had been a
                > virgin. What if there was hanky-panky before the wedding? Or, did
                > traditions vary? >>

                RE THE ABOVE - I LEARNED THAT IN EUROPE THIS WAS A CUSTOM LKONG AGO AND
                SOMETIMES THEY KILLED A CHICKEN AND USED THAT TO MAKE IT APPEAR THE BRIDE WAS
                A VIRGIN. CAN'T PIN THAT TO SLOVAKIA BUT IT WOULDN'TSURPRISE ME.

                GREAT DISPLAY OF FOLK DRESS IN THE MARTIN MUSEUM - SOME 135 FIGURES FROM ALL
                PARTS OF THE COUNTRY.

                A VILLAGE WEDDING (SOUTHWESTERN SLOVAKIA) HAS A YOUNG MAN CARRYING A BRIDAL
                FLAG - IN THIS CASE A LARGE TURKISH SHAWL ON A POLE - RIBBONS AT THE TOP OF
                THE POLE AND AN APPLE.

                THE APPLE WAS A SYMBOL OF VIRGINITY - DO YOU KNOW THE SONG "CERVENE JABLCKO"
                - AYOUNG GIRL GIVES A RED APPLE TO HER BELOVED - LATER SHE GAINS A SON AND A
                HEADACHE.

                SO THAT'S WHERE MY THEORY OF THE TURKISH SHAWL REPLACING THE MEDIEVAL
                PARADING OF THE WEDDING BED SHEET

                helene
              • Matchett
                What Helene wrote interested me and I looked back into my mother s memoirs: My brothers were very often best men (druz~bas). They carried a s~abl a (sword)
                Message 7 of 9 , Mar 1, 2003
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                  What Helene wrote interested me and I looked back into my mother's
                  memoirs:

                  "My brothers were very often best men (druz~bas). They carried a
                  s~abl'a (sword) at the head of the wedding procession. The best man
                  carried the s~abl'a upright and the tip of the s~abl'a was decorated
                  with ribbons, an apple on top of the ribbons and one sprig of rosemary
                  on top of the apple. Also a scarf was attached under the ribbons.

                  "The Godmother's son was rightfully the best man. If she didn't have a
                  son, then anyone could be best man. My three brothers were often asked
                  to be best man. Whatever was attached to the s~abl'a was given to the
                  best man. I had lots of scarves from those weddings."

                  Oh my, I never thought of the significance of it all and wish I had
                  taken a greater interest when my mother was alive. She was from
                  southwestern Slovakia, too. Julia Matchett

                  On Saturday, March 1, 2003, at 01:21 AM, helenezx@... wrote:
                  >
                  > A VILLAGE WEDDING (SOUTHWESTERN SLOVAKIA) HAS A YOUNG MAN CARRYING A
                  > BRIDAL
                  > FLAG - IN THIS CASE A LARGE TURKISH SHAWL ON A POLE - RIBBONS AT THE
                  > TOP OF
                  > THE POLE AND AN APPLE.
                  >
                  > THE APPLE WAS A SYMBOL OF VIRGINITY - DO YOU KNOW THE SONG "CERVENE
                  > JABLCKO"
                  > - AYOUNG GIRL GIVES A RED APPLE TO HER BELOVED - LATER SHE GAINS A SON
                  > AND A
                  > HEADACHE.
                  >
                  > SO THAT'S WHERE MY THEORY OF THE TURKISH SHAWL REPLACING THE MEDIEVAL
                  > PARADING OF THE WEDDING BED SHEET
                  >
                  > helene
                  >
                  >
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                • William C. Wormuth
                  In Saudi Arabia, at the end of the wedding, the bride and groom go into the house to consummate the union. Later, the mother in law goes into the house and
                  Message 8 of 9 , Mar 1, 2003
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                    In Saudi Arabia, at the end of the wedding, the bride and groom go into the house
                    to "consummate" the union.

                    Later, the mother in law goes into the house and displays the bloody bedding from
                    the balcony or window.

                    Vilo

                    ***********************************************************************
                    helenezx@... wrote:

                    > In a message dated 2/16/3 4:33:32 PM, jarmata@... writes:
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > A VILLAGE WEDDING (SOUTHWESTERN SLOVAKIA) HAS A YOUNG MAN CARRYING A BRIDAL
                    > FLAG - IN THIS CASE A LARGE TURKISH SHAWL ON A POLE - RIBBONS AT THE TOP OF
                    > THE POLE AND AN APPLE.
                    >
                    > THE APPLE WAS A SYMBOL OF VIRGINITY - DO YOU KNOW THE SONG "CERVENE JABLCKO"
                    > - AYOUNG GIRL GIVES A RED APPLE TO HER BELOVED - LATER SHE GAINS A SON AND A
                    > HEADACHE.
                    >
                    > SO THAT'S WHERE MY THEORY OF THE TURKISH SHAWL REPLACING THE MEDIEVAL
                    > PARADING OF THE WEDDING BED SHEET
                    >
                    > helene
                    >
                    >
                    > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                    > Slovak-World-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                    >
                    >
                    >
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                  • capt jack
                    We all could have done without that mental picture.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Jim ... Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, and more [Non-text
                    Message 9 of 9 , Mar 1, 2003
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                      We all could have done without that mental picture.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

                      Jim



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