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Kerry

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  • capt jack
    Many Vietnam Vets Will Object to Kerry by Terry Garlock Now that Massachusetts Sen. John Kerry is claiming the veteran vote based on his war record, both
    Message 1 of 24 , Feb 10, 2004
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      "Many Vietnam Vets Will Object to Kerry"
      by Terry Garlock
      Now that Massachusetts Sen. John Kerry is claiming the veteran vote based
      on his war record, both sides of that story should be told. To appreciate the
      dark side of Sen. Kerry's war record, you should know a few things about
      Vietnam veterans.
      For example, having fought in an unpopular war 30 something years ago, and
      having been awarded medals, is noteworthy. But it doesn't give anyone a pass -
      their record and their ideas should be examined on their own merit.
      And reporters make a mistake when they divide us into decorated veterans like
      Sen. Kerry and then all the others. We like to think of ourselves as
      brothers, whether we fought the enemy directly in combat or served in vital support
      roles in protected areas that were often exposed to attack.
      Even today, after all this time, when two Vietnam veterans meet one
      another for the first time they are likely to say "Welcome home brother!" because
      many were never welcomed home - they met the cold shoulder of an ungrateful
      nation on their return.
      Those of us whose job was combat feel a very special brotherhood. We
      learned to trust our brothers on the ground, on the water and in the air to do the
      right things to protect one another, even under fire. We came to deeply value
      the same trust they placed in us, and that mutual trust would form a bond
      that cannot be fully explained in words. We quietly feared dying in battle, but
      there was something we feared even more. We knew if we should panic under fire
      and fail to do our job, we might lose our brothers' trust or we might lose
      their lives, and this we feared more than anything.
      Like Sen. Kerry, I have a few medals. But among combat veterans, who has what
      medal doesn't make a dime's worth of difference between us. What matters is
      that we are, for the rest of our life, brothers who kept faith with one another
      in a miserable war.
      A young John Kerry, however, broke faith with his brothers when he returned
      to the US. With the financial aid of Jane Fonda he led highly visible protests
      against the war.
      He wrote a book that many considered to be pro-Hanoi, titled The New
      Soldier. The cover photo of his book depicted veterans in patchwork military
      uniforms, holding the American flag upside down and mocking the legendary image of
      Marines raising the American flag atop Mount Suribachi in the 1945 battle for
      Iwo Jima.
      Sen. Kerry publicly supported Hanoi's position to use our POWs as a
      bargaining chip in negotiations for a peace agreement.
      Sen. Kerry played a key role in "Winter Soldier," a Jane Fonda event where
      over 100 men, many of whom were later discredited, testified about atrocities
      committed in the Vietnam war by American soldiers.
      In 1971 Sen. Kerry testified before the Senate Foreign Relation Committee and
      said our soldiers in Vietnam were not America's best as Vice President Agnew
      had claimed, but that they were committing widespread rape, torture and murder
      of Vietnamese civilians. We who were there know that to be untrue. Later
      that same day Sen. Kerry threw what he said were his medals over a fence in front
      of the capitol building in protest, on camera of course, but was years later
      caught in his lie when his medals turned up displayed on his office wall.
      Some say Sen. Kerry's anti-war stance arose from his political ambitions
      since the war was so unpopular, and I cannot say I know his motivations. But when
      he ran for congress in 1972 maybe he thought his book and it's cover would be
      an embarrassment since it remarkably disappeared from store and library
      shelves. I would guess Hercule Poirot himself could not find a copy today.
      Many good and decent people other than Sen. Kerry opposed the Vietnam war.
      Many of us who fought it hated it, too, I know I did. But like Jane Fonda's
      infamous visit to Hanoi in 1972, Sen. Kerry's public actions encouraged our enemy
      at a time they were killing America's sons. Decades after the war was done,
      interviews with our former enemy's leaders confirmed that public protests in the
      US, like Sen. Kerry's, played a significant role in their strategy and worked
      against our chances of victory. Many of us wonder which of our brothers who
      died young would be alive today had people like Jane Fonda and Sen. Kerry
      objected to the war in a more suitable way.
      Now that it serves his ambition to be President, Sen. Kerry reminds the
      public of his war record daily, but the story of the dark side of that record is
      not being told. Many Vietnam veterans have taken notice, and many of us will
      vigorously oppose Sen. Kerry's election to any office. I will be one of them.



      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Taoz@aol.com
      Here we go again with the politics. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      Message 2 of 24 , Feb 10, 2004
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        Here we go again with the politics.


        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • raybravo2000
        http://www.truthorfiction.com/rumors/k/kerry.htm ... based ... the ... and ... pass - ... veterans like ... vital support ... because ... ungrateful ... do the
        Message 3 of 24 , Feb 10, 2004
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          http://www.truthorfiction.com/rumors/k/kerry.htm

          --- In Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com, capt jack <captjack00@y...> wrote:
          > "Many Vietnam Vets Will Object to Kerry"
          > by Terry Garlock
          > Now that Massachusetts Sen. John Kerry is claiming the veteran vote
          based
          > on his war record, both sides of that story should be told. To appreciate
          the
          > dark side of Sen. Kerry's war record, you should know a few things about
          > Vietnam veterans.
          > For example, having fought in an unpopular war 30 something years ago,
          and
          > having been awarded medals, is noteworthy. But it doesn't give anyone a
          pass -
          > their record and their ideas should be examined on their own merit.
          > And reporters make a mistake when they divide us into decorated
          veterans like
          > Sen. Kerry and then all the others. We like to think of ourselves as
          > brothers, whether we fought the enemy directly in combat or served in
          vital support
          > roles in protected areas that were often exposed to attack.
          > Even today, after all this time, when two Vietnam veterans meet one
          > another for the first time they are likely to say "Welcome home brother!"
          because
          > many were never welcomed home - they met the cold shoulder of an
          ungrateful
          > nation on their return.
          > Those of us whose job was combat feel a very special brotherhood. We
          > learned to trust our brothers on the ground, on the water and in the air to
          do the
          > right things to protect one another, even under fire. We came to deeply
          value
          > the same trust they placed in us, and that mutual trust would form a bond
          > that cannot be fully explained in words. We quietly feared dying in battle,
          but
          > there was something we feared even more. We knew if we should panic
          under fire
          > and fail to do our job, we might lose our brothers' trust or we might lose
          > their lives, and this we feared more than anything.
          > Like Sen. Kerry, I have a few medals. But among combat veterans, who
          has what
          > medal doesn't make a dime's worth of difference between us. What
          matters is
          > that we are, for the rest of our life, brothers who kept faith with one
          another
          > in a miserable war.
          > A young John Kerry, however, broke faith with his brothers when he
          returned
          > to the US. With the financial aid of Jane Fonda he led highly visible
          protests
          > against the war.
          > He wrote a book that many considered to be pro-Hanoi, titled The New
          > Soldier. The cover photo of his book depicted veterans in patchwork
          military
          > uniforms, holding the American flag upside down and mocking the
          legendary image of
          > Marines raising the American flag atop Mount Suribachi in the 1945 battle
          for
          > Iwo Jima.
          > Sen. Kerry publicly supported Hanoi's position to use our POWs as a
          > bargaining chip in negotiations for a peace agreement.
          > Sen. Kerry played a key role in "Winter Soldier," a Jane Fonda event
          where
          > over 100 men, many of whom were later discredited, testified about
          atrocities
          > committed in the Vietnam war by American soldiers.
          > In 1971 Sen. Kerry testified before the Senate Foreign Relation
          Committee and
          > said our soldiers in Vietnam were not America's best as Vice President
          Agnew
          > had claimed, but that they were committing widespread rape, torture and
          murder
          > of Vietnamese civilians. We who were there know that to be untrue. Later
          > that same day Sen. Kerry threw what he said were his medals over a
          fence in front
          > of the capitol building in protest, on camera of course, but was years later
          > caught in his lie when his medals turned up displayed on his office wall.
          > Some say Sen. Kerry's anti-war stance arose from his political ambitions
          > since the war was so unpopular, and I cannot say I know his motivations.
          But when
          > he ran for congress in 1972 maybe he thought his book and it's cover
          would be
          > an embarrassment since it remarkably disappeared from store and library
          > shelves. I would guess Hercule Poirot himself could not find a copy today.
          > Many good and decent people other than Sen. Kerry opposed the
          Vietnam war.
          > Many of us who fought it hated it, too, I know I did. But like Jane Fonda's
          > infamous visit to Hanoi in 1972, Sen. Kerry's public actions encouraged
          our enemy
          > at a time they were killing America's sons. Decades after the war was
          done,
          > interviews with our former enemy's leaders confirmed that public protests
          in the
          > US, like Sen. Kerry's, played a significant role in their strategy and worked
          > against our chances of victory. Many of us wonder which of our brothers
          who
          > died young would be alive today had people like Jane Fonda and Sen.
          Kerry
          > objected to the war in a more suitable way.
          > Now that it serves his ambition to be President, Sen. Kerry reminds the
          > public of his war record daily, but the story of the dark side of that record
          is
          > not being told. Many Vietnam veterans have taken notice, and many of
          us will
          > vigorously oppose Sen. Kerry's election to any office. I will be one of
          them.
          >
          >
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • amiak27
          Jack & Ray, In the poll on posting politics, there are 18, 6 and 3 votes tallied. 18 against politics, 3 for politics and 6 who don t care. Out of about 161
          Message 4 of 24 , Feb 10, 2004
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            Jack & Ray,

            In the poll on posting politics, there are 18, 6 and 3 votes
            tallied. 18 against politics, 3 for politics and 6 who don't care.
            Out of about 161 people on SLovak World, that is about 17% of the
            total.

            Of those who cared enough to vote (and were not defeated by
            electronic hanging chad), 2/3 voted for no politics.

            Do you have so little respect for people on S-W that you continue to
            post your crap? I find it insulting. Go to political rallies and
            bars if you want to stick in your politics. Please leave us in
            peace - or discuss Slovak politics. I doubt that you ae winning any
            to your ideas, and you certainly are offending a lot.

            Ron

            --- In Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com, "raybravo2000" <colinv@e...>
            wrote:
            > http://www.truthorfiction.com/rumors/k/kerry.htm
            >
            > --- In Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com, capt jack <captjack00@y...>
            wrote:
          • yawho2001
            ... To the two thirds of those who voted and preferred that American politics not be a topic of discussion: Capt. Jack S will continue to play his robot right
            Message 5 of 24 , Feb 11, 2004
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              --- In Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com, capt jack <captjack00@y...>
              wrote:
              > "Many Vietnam Vets Will Object to Kerry"
              > by Terry Garlock

              To the two thirds of those who voted and preferred that American
              politics not be a topic of discussion:

              Capt. Jack S will continue to play his robot right "never got shot at
              but I love war" game. I put my response to him in the File area in a
              PDF format file (27KB). This way I wil not clutter up members
              mailboxes. I'll remove it in a couple of days.

              Janko
            • Nick Holcz
              ... Obviously there a lot of people who don t care enough about it to vote ,I find it interesting, because I only get to read about US politics in our papers
              Message 6 of 24 , Feb 11, 2004
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                At 03:04 PM 11/02/2004, you wrote:

                >In the poll on posting politics, there are 18, 6 and 3 votes
                >tallied. 18 against politics, 3 for politics and 6 who don't care.
                >Out of about 161 people on SLovak World, that is about 17% of the
                >total.


                Obviously there a lot of people who don't care enough about it to vote ,I
                find it interesting, because I only get to read about US politics in our
                papers so something controversial occasionally is OK with me.

                Nick
              • krejc@aol.com
                I did not vote in regards to politics on the list, but I would have voted to let people write what they want as long as they post the message with the subject.
                Message 7 of 24 , Feb 11, 2004
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                  I did not vote in regards to politics on the list, but I would have voted to
                  let people write what they want as long as they post the message with the
                  subject. Delete is still an option. I learn a little from each post both
                  conservative and liberal. My aunt hates Bush and we argue all the time over
                  politics. She calls herself a "politics junkie" Even at 88, she just loves it all.
                  We never get mad at each other but jump hoops and turn handstands trying to
                  "convert" the other. Our country is a great seesaw, anyway. As soon as one
                  party has all their eggs in a row and is starting to make changes, boom. The
                  other party takes over and everything swings the other way. Is this a
                  balancing act? maybe. No one party gets to run it all. We have balance. I pray we
                  always keep it. I especially like to hear about Slovakian politics. This
                  gets me using my google.com search to learn more about that country.
                  Noreen


                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • capt jack
                  Out of about 161 people on SLovak World, that is about 17% of the total. A minority I might add Ron. CJ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  Message 8 of 24 , Feb 11, 2004
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                    "Out of about 161 people on SLovak World, that is about 17% of the total."


                    A minority I might add Ron.

                    CJ


                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • Dr. Joe Q
                    That s only a 23.6% standard error. At least the TV stations use the 3% error rule because they use 1,000 answers (they may have gotten more answers but
                    Message 9 of 24 , Feb 11, 2004
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                      That's "only" a 23.6% standard error. At least the TV
                      stations use the 3% error rule because they use 1,000
                      answers (they may have gotten more answers but they
                      chose 1,000).

                      Standard error % = ((square root of N)/N)(100)

                      The best standard error you could have gotten was 7.9%
                      with 161; but if all had voted at least you would have
                      a measure of their opinion and statistics would have
                      no meaning.

                      Maybe the other 143 members have a life?

                      Dr. "Q"

                      --- amiak27 <rmat@...> wrote:
                      > Jack & Ray,
                      >
                      > In the poll on posting politics, there are 18, 6 and
                      > 3 votes
                      > tallied. 18 against politics, 3 for politics and 6
                      > who don't care.
                      > Out of about 161 people on SLovak World, that is
                      > about 17% of the
                      > total.
                      >
                      > Of those who cared enough to vote (and were not
                      > defeated by
                      > electronic hanging chad), 2/3 voted for no politics.
                      >
                      > Do you have so little respect for people on S-W that
                      > you continue to
                      > post your crap? I find it insulting. Go to
                      > political rallies and
                      > bars if you want to stick in your politics. Please
                      > leave us in
                      > peace - or discuss Slovak politics. I doubt that
                      > you ae winning any
                      > to your ideas, and you certainly are offending a
                      > lot.
                      >
                      > Ron

                      __________________________________
                      Do you Yahoo!?
                      Yahoo! Finance: Get your refund fast by filing online.
                      http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html
                    • Dr. Joe Q
                      That s only a 23.6% standard error. At least the TV stations use the 3% error rule because they use 1,000 answers (they may have gotten more answers but
                      Message 10 of 24 , Feb 11, 2004
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                        That's "only" a 23.6% standard error. At least the TV
                        stations use the 3% error rule because they use 1,000
                        answers (they may have gotten more answers but they
                        chose 1,000).

                        Standard error % = ((square root of N)/N)(100)

                        The best standard error you could have gotten was 7.9%
                        with 161; but if all had voted at least you would have
                        a measure of their opinion and statistics would have
                        no meaning.

                        Maybe the other 143 members have a life?

                        Dr. "Q"

                        --- amiak27 <rmat@...> wrote:
                        > Jack & Ray,
                        >
                        > In the poll on posting politics, there are 18, 6 and
                        > 3 votes
                        > tallied. 18 against politics, 3 for politics and 6
                        > who don't care.
                        > Out of about 161 people on SLovak World, that is
                        > about 17% of the
                        > total.
                        >
                        > Of those who cared enough to vote (and were not
                        > defeated by
                        > electronic hanging chad), 2/3 voted for no politics.
                        >
                        > Do you have so little respect for people on S-W that
                        > you continue to
                        > post your crap? I find it insulting. Go to
                        > political rallies and
                        > bars if you want to stick in your politics. Please
                        > leave us in
                        > peace - or discuss Slovak politics. I doubt that
                        > you ae winning any
                        > to your ideas, and you certainly are offending a
                        > lot.
                        >
                        > Ron

                        __________________________________
                        Do you Yahoo!?
                        Yahoo! Finance: Get your refund fast by filing online.
                        http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html
                      • Don Havlicek
                        Oh hell, When statistics get added to the discussion, I HAVE to put in my 2 SK! Standard error is dependent on the ASSUMPTION that the remainder of the
                        Message 11 of 24 , Feb 11, 2004
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                          Oh hell,
                          When statistics get added to the discussion, I HAVE to put in my 2 SK!
                          Standard error is dependent on the ASSUMPTION that the remainder of the
                          'population' that was NOT surveyed is NORMALLY distributed.
                          Wrote part of my Master's Thesis on the FALLACY of this assumption.
                          A simple example:

                          N=1000 [members of a group]

                          A survey is taken of 100 of them ... [that's 10% .. VERY LARGE % to survey!]

                          Now .. let's assume the result is:

                          60% choose A .. and
                          40% choose B.

                          You do the math, based on the 'standard error' formula that Dr Q just
                          described. VERY IMPRESSIVE, indeed! ... Gallup and Zogby would love
                          that kind of result! ... BUT

                          BUT...
                          BUT...

                          It is POSSIBLE [here goes the 'non-NORMAL distribution argument]:

                          the remaining 900 might ALL choose 'A' ... meaning the vote would result as:

                          A = 960
                          B = 40 ...... 96% to 4% .... BUT...

                          BUT...
                          BUT...

                          the remaining 900 might all choose 'B' ... meaning the vote would result as:

                          A = 60
                          B = 940 ..... 94% to 6% .. THE OTHER WAY !

                          That means ... with a NON-NORMAL distribution:

                          The error is: +/- 54%

                          End of statistical argument!
                          S'Bohom
                          Don Havlicek
                          Connersville, IN

                          p.s. ....I celebrated two 'anniversaries' on Monday .. 67th birthday..
                          and 50 years as a licensed radio amateur operator!


                          Dr. Joe Q wrote:
                          > That's "only" a 23.6% standard error. At least the TV
                          > stations use the 3% error rule because they use 1,000
                          > answers (they may have gotten more answers but they
                          > chose 1,000).
                          >
                          > Standard error % = ((square root of N)/N)(100)
                          >
                          > The best standard error you could have gotten was 7.9%
                          > with 161; but if all had voted at least you would have
                          > a measure of their opinion and statistics would have
                          > no meaning.
                          >
                          > Maybe the other 143 members have a life?
                          >
                          > Dr. "Q"
                          >
                          > --- amiak27 <rmat@...> wrote:
                          >
                          >>Jack & Ray,
                          >>
                          >>In the poll on posting politics, there are 18, 6 and
                          >>3 votes
                          >>tallied. 18 against politics, 3 for politics and 6
                          >>who don't care.
                          >>Out of about 161 people on SLovak World, that is
                          >>about 17% of the
                          >>total.
                          >>
                          >>Of those who cared enough to vote (and were not
                          >>defeated by
                          >>electronic hanging chad), 2/3 voted for no politics.
                          >>
                          >>Do you have so little respect for people on S-W that
                          >>you continue to
                          >>post your crap? I find it insulting. Go to
                          >>political rallies and
                          >>bars if you want to stick in your politics. Please
                          >>leave us in
                          >>peace - or discuss Slovak politics. I doubt that
                          >>you ae winning any
                          >>to your ideas, and you certainly are offending a
                          >>lot.
                          >>
                          >>Ron
                          >
                          >
                          > __________________________________
                          > Do you Yahoo!?
                          > Yahoo! Finance: Get your refund fast by filing online.
                          > http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > Yahoo! Groups Links
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                        • capt jack
                          Happy birthday Don! CJ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          Message 12 of 24 , Feb 11, 2004
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                            Happy birthday Don!

                            CJ


                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          • Don Havlicek
                            Thank you kindly, capt jack! S Bohom
                            Message 13 of 24 , Feb 11, 2004
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                              Thank you kindly, capt jack!
                              S'Bohom

                              capt jack wrote:
                              > Happy birthday Don!
                              >
                              > CJ
                              >
                              >
                              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > Yahoo! Groups Links
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                            • Dr. Joe Q
                              Yoooo Don!! I loved it - poisson vs gaussian distribution, central tendency, mode, median, mean, sigma, etc. and we all know the SW is NOT normally anything.
                              Message 14 of 24 , Feb 11, 2004
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                                Yoooo Don!!

                                I loved it - poisson vs gaussian distribution, central
                                tendency, mode, median, mean, sigma, etc. and we all
                                know the SW is NOT normally anything. :-)

                                Dr. "Q"

                                --- Don Havlicek <n8de@...> wrote:
                                > Oh hell,
                                > When statistics get added to the discussion, I HAVE
                                > to put in my 2 SK!
                                > Standard error is dependent on the ASSUMPTION that
                                > the remainder of the
                                > 'population' that was NOT surveyed is NORMALLY
                                > distributed.
                                > Wrote part of my Master's Thesis on the FALLACY of
                                > this assumption.
                                > A simple example:
                                >
                                > N=1000 [members of a group]
                                >
                                > A survey is taken of 100 of them ... [that's 10% ..
                                > VERY LARGE % to survey!]
                                >
                                > Now .. let's assume the result is:
                                >
                                > 60% choose A .. and
                                > 40% choose B.
                                >
                                > You do the math, based on the 'standard error'
                                > formula that Dr Q just
                                > described. VERY IMPRESSIVE, indeed! ... Gallup and
                                > Zogby would love
                                > that kind of result! ... BUT
                                >
                                > BUT...
                                > BUT...
                                >
                                > It is POSSIBLE [here goes the 'non-NORMAL
                                > distribution argument]:
                                >
                                > the remaining 900 might ALL choose 'A' ... meaning
                                > the vote would result as:
                                >
                                > A = 960
                                > B = 40 ...... 96% to 4% .... BUT...
                                >
                                > BUT...
                                > BUT...
                                >
                                > the remaining 900 might all choose 'B' ... meaning
                                > the vote would result as:
                                >
                                > A = 60
                                > B = 940 ..... 94% to 6% .. THE OTHER WAY !
                                >
                                > That means ... with a NON-NORMAL distribution:
                                >
                                > The error is: +/- 54%
                                >
                                > End of statistical argument!
                                > S'Bohom
                                > Don Havlicek
                                > Connersville, IN
                                >
                                > p.s. ....I celebrated two 'anniversaries' on Monday
                                > .. 67th birthday..
                                > and 50 years as a licensed radio amateur operator!
                                >
                                >
                                > Dr. Joe Q wrote:
                                > > That's "only" a 23.6% standard error. At least
                                > the TV
                                > > stations use the 3% error rule because they use
                                > 1,000
                                > > answers (they may have gotten more answers but
                                > they
                                > > chose 1,000).
                                > >
                                > > Standard error % = ((square root of N)/N)(100)
                                > >
                                > > The best standard error you could have gotten was
                                > 7.9%
                                > > with 161; but if all had voted at least you would
                                > have
                                > > a measure of their opinion and statistics would
                                > have
                                > > no meaning.
                                > >
                                > > Maybe the other 143 members have a life?
                                > >
                                > > Dr. "Q"
                                > >
                                > > --- amiak27 <rmat@...> wrote:
                                > >
                                > >>Jack & Ray,
                                > >>
                                > >>In the poll on posting politics, there are 18, 6
                                > and
                                > >>3 votes
                                > >>tallied. 18 against politics, 3 for politics and
                                > 6
                                > >>who don't care.
                                > >>Out of about 161 people on SLovak World, that is
                                > >>about 17% of the
                                > >>total.
                                > >>
                                > >>Of those who cared enough to vote (and were not
                                > >>defeated by
                                > >>electronic hanging chad), 2/3 voted for no
                                > politics.
                                > >>
                                > >>Do you have so little respect for people on S-W
                                > that
                                > >>you continue to
                                > >>post your crap? I find it insulting. Go to
                                > >>political rallies and
                                > >>bars if you want to stick in your politics.
                                > Please
                                > >>leave us in
                                > >>peace - or discuss Slovak politics. I doubt that
                                > >>you ae winning any
                                > >>to your ideas, and you certainly are offending a
                                > >>lot.
                                > >>
                                > >>Ron

                                __________________________________
                                Do you Yahoo!?
                                Yahoo! Finance: Get your refund fast by filing online.
                                http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html
                              • Don Havlicek
                                Dr Q .. you made my day ! But I m widely distributed in the middle! Don
                                Message 15 of 24 , Feb 11, 2004
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                                  Dr Q .. you made my day !
                                  But I'm widely distributed in the middle!
                                  Don

                                  Dr. Joe Q wrote:
                                  > Yoooo Don!!
                                  >
                                  > I loved it - poisson vs gaussian distribution, central
                                  > tendency, mode, median, mean, sigma, etc. and we all
                                  > know the SW is NOT normally anything. :-)
                                  >
                                  > Dr. "Q"
                                  >
                                  > --- Don Havlicek <n8de@...> wrote:
                                  >
                                  >>Oh hell,
                                  >>When statistics get added to the discussion, I HAVE
                                  >>to put in my 2 SK!
                                  >>Standard error is dependent on the ASSUMPTION that
                                  >>the remainder of the
                                  >>'population' that was NOT surveyed is NORMALLY
                                  >>distributed.
                                  >>Wrote part of my Master's Thesis on the FALLACY of
                                  >>this assumption.
                                  >>A simple example:
                                  >>
                                  >>N=1000 [members of a group]
                                  >>
                                  >>A survey is taken of 100 of them ... [that's 10% ..
                                  >>VERY LARGE % to survey!]
                                  >>
                                  >>Now .. let's assume the result is:
                                  >>
                                  >>60% choose A .. and
                                  >>40% choose B.
                                  >>
                                  >>You do the math, based on the 'standard error'
                                  >>formula that Dr Q just
                                  >>described. VERY IMPRESSIVE, indeed! ... Gallup and
                                  >>Zogby would love
                                  >>that kind of result! ... BUT
                                  >>
                                  >>BUT...
                                  >>BUT...
                                  >>
                                  >>It is POSSIBLE [here goes the 'non-NORMAL
                                  >>distribution argument]:
                                  >>
                                  >>the remaining 900 might ALL choose 'A' ... meaning
                                  >>the vote would result as:
                                  >>
                                  >>A = 960
                                  >>B = 40 ...... 96% to 4% .... BUT...
                                  >>
                                  >>BUT...
                                  >>BUT...
                                  >>
                                  >>the remaining 900 might all choose 'B' ... meaning
                                  >>the vote would result as:
                                  >>
                                  >>A = 60
                                  >>B = 940 ..... 94% to 6% .. THE OTHER WAY !
                                  >>
                                  >>That means ... with a NON-NORMAL distribution:
                                  >>
                                  >>The error is: +/- 54%
                                  >>
                                  >>End of statistical argument!
                                  >>S'Bohom
                                  >>Don Havlicek
                                  >>Connersville, IN
                                  >>
                                  >>p.s. ....I celebrated two 'anniversaries' on Monday
                                  >>.. 67th birthday..
                                  >>and 50 years as a licensed radio amateur operator!
                                  >>
                                  >>
                                  >>Dr. Joe Q wrote:
                                  >>
                                  >>>That's "only" a 23.6% standard error. At least
                                  >>
                                  >>the TV
                                  >>
                                  >>>stations use the 3% error rule because they use
                                  >>
                                  >>1,000
                                  >>
                                  >>>answers (they may have gotten more answers but
                                  >>
                                  >>they
                                  >>
                                  >>>chose 1,000).
                                  >>>
                                  >>> Standard error % = ((square root of N)/N)(100)
                                  >>>
                                  >>>The best standard error you could have gotten was
                                  >>
                                  >>7.9%
                                  >>
                                  >>>with 161; but if all had voted at least you would
                                  >>
                                  >>have
                                  >>
                                  >>>a measure of their opinion and statistics would
                                  >>
                                  >>have
                                  >>
                                  >>>no meaning.
                                  >>>
                                  >>>Maybe the other 143 members have a life?
                                  >>>
                                  >>>Dr. "Q"
                                  >>>
                                  >>>--- amiak27 <rmat@...> wrote:
                                  >>>
                                  >>>
                                  >>>>Jack & Ray,
                                  >>>>
                                  >>>>In the poll on posting politics, there are 18, 6
                                  >>>
                                  >>and
                                  >>
                                  >>>>3 votes
                                  >>>>tallied. 18 against politics, 3 for politics and
                                  >>>
                                  >>6
                                  >>
                                  >>>>who don't care.
                                  >>>>Out of about 161 people on SLovak World, that is
                                  >>>>about 17% of the
                                  >>>>total.
                                  >>>>
                                  >>>>Of those who cared enough to vote (and were not
                                  >>>>defeated by
                                  >>>>electronic hanging chad), 2/3 voted for no
                                  >>>
                                  >>politics.
                                  >>
                                  >>>>Do you have so little respect for people on S-W
                                  >>>
                                  >>that
                                  >>
                                  >>>>you continue to
                                  >>>>post your crap? I find it insulting. Go to
                                  >>>>political rallies and
                                  >>>>bars if you want to stick in your politics.
                                  >>>
                                  >>Please
                                  >>
                                  >>>>leave us in
                                  >>>>peace - or discuss Slovak politics. I doubt that
                                  >>>>you ae winning any
                                  >>>>to your ideas, and you certainly are offending a
                                  >>>>lot.
                                  >>>>
                                  >>>>Ron
                                  >>>
                                  >
                                  > __________________________________
                                  > Do you Yahoo!?
                                  > Yahoo! Finance: Get your refund fast by filing online.
                                  > http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html
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                                  >
                                  >
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                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
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                                  >
                                • Dr. Joe Q
                                  I think I m in the same distribution group too. Dr. Q ... __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance: Get your refund fast by filing
                                  Message 16 of 24 , Feb 11, 2004
                                  • 0 Attachment
                                    I think I'm in the same distribution group too.

                                    Dr. "Q"

                                    --- Don Havlicek <n8de@...> wrote:
                                    > Dr Q .. you made my day !
                                    > But I'm widely distributed in the middle!
                                    > Don
                                    >
                                    > Dr. Joe Q wrote:
                                    > > Yoooo Don!!
                                    > >
                                    > > I loved it - poisson vs gaussian distribution,
                                    > central
                                    > > tendency, mode, median, mean, sigma, etc. and we
                                    > all
                                    > > know the SW is NOT normally anything. :-)
                                    > >
                                    > > Dr. "Q"
                                    > >
                                    > > --- Don Havlicek <n8de@...> wrote:
                                    > >
                                    > >>Oh hell,
                                    > >>When statistics get added to the discussion, I
                                    > HAVE
                                    > >>to put in my 2 SK!
                                    > >>Standard error is dependent on the ASSUMPTION that
                                    > >>the remainder of the
                                    > >>'population' that was NOT surveyed is NORMALLY
                                    > >>distributed.
                                    > >>Wrote part of my Master's Thesis on the FALLACY of
                                    > >>this assumption.
                                    > >>A simple example:
                                    > >>
                                    > >>N=1000 [members of a group]
                                    > >>
                                    > >>A survey is taken of 100 of them ... [that's 10%
                                    > ..
                                    > >>VERY LARGE % to survey!]
                                    > >>
                                    > >>Now .. let's assume the result is:
                                    > >>
                                    > >>60% choose A .. and
                                    > >>40% choose B.
                                    > >>
                                    > >>You do the math, based on the 'standard error'
                                    > >>formula that Dr Q just
                                    > >>described. VERY IMPRESSIVE, indeed! ... Gallup
                                    > and
                                    > >>Zogby would love
                                    > >>that kind of result! ... BUT
                                    > >>
                                    > >>BUT...
                                    > >>BUT...
                                    > >>
                                    > >>It is POSSIBLE [here goes the 'non-NORMAL
                                    > >>distribution argument]:
                                    > >>
                                    > >>the remaining 900 might ALL choose 'A' ... meaning
                                    > >>the vote would result as:
                                    > >>
                                    > >>A = 960
                                    > >>B = 40 ...... 96% to 4% .... BUT...
                                    > >>
                                    > >>BUT...
                                    > >>BUT...
                                    > >>
                                    > >>the remaining 900 might all choose 'B' ... meaning
                                    > >>the vote would result as:
                                    > >>
                                    > >>A = 60
                                    > >>B = 940 ..... 94% to 6% .. THE OTHER WAY !
                                    > >>
                                    > >>That means ... with a NON-NORMAL distribution:
                                    > >>
                                    > >>The error is: +/- 54%
                                    > >>
                                    > >>End of statistical argument!
                                    > >>S'Bohom
                                    > >>Don Havlicek
                                    > >>Connersville, IN
                                    > >>
                                    > >>p.s. ....I celebrated two 'anniversaries' on
                                    > Monday
                                    > >>.. 67th birthday..
                                    > >>and 50 years as a licensed radio amateur operator!
                                    > >>
                                    > >>
                                    > >>Dr. Joe Q wrote:
                                    > >>
                                    > >>>That's "only" a 23.6% standard error. At least
                                    > >>
                                    > >>the TV
                                    > >>
                                    > >>>stations use the 3% error rule because they use
                                    > >>
                                    > >>1,000
                                    > >>
                                    > >>>answers (they may have gotten more answers but
                                    > >>
                                    > >>they
                                    > >>
                                    > >>>chose 1,000).
                                    > >>>
                                    > >>> Standard error % = ((square root of N)/N)(100)
                                    > >>>
                                    > >>>The best standard error you could have gotten was
                                    > >>
                                    > >>7.9%
                                    > >>
                                    > >>>with 161; but if all had voted at least you would
                                    > >>
                                    > >>have
                                    > >>
                                    > >>>a measure of their opinion and statistics would
                                    > >>
                                    > >>have
                                    > >>
                                    > >>>no meaning.
                                    > >>>
                                    > >>>Maybe the other 143 members have a life?
                                    > >>>
                                    > >>>Dr. "Q"
                                    > >>>
                                    > >>>--- amiak27 <rmat@...> wrote:
                                    > >>>
                                    > >>>
                                    > >>>>Jack & Ray,
                                    > >>>>
                                    > >>>>In the poll on posting politics, there are 18, 6
                                    > >>>
                                    > >>and
                                    > >>
                                    > >>>>3 votes
                                    > >>>>tallied. 18 against politics, 3 for politics
                                    > and
                                    > >>>
                                    > >>6
                                    > >>
                                    > >>>>who don't care.
                                    > >>>>Out of about 161 people on SLovak World, that is
                                    > >>>>about 17% of the
                                    > >>>>total.
                                    > >>>>
                                    > >>>>Of those who cared enough to vote (and were not
                                    > >>>>defeated by
                                    > >>>>electronic hanging chad), 2/3 voted for no
                                    > >>>
                                    > >>politics.
                                    > >>
                                    > >>>>Do you have so little respect for people on S-W
                                    > >>>
                                    > >>that
                                    > >>
                                    > >>>>you continue to
                                    > >>>>post your crap? I find it insulting. Go to
                                    > >>>>political rallies and
                                    > >>>>bars if you want to stick in your politics.
                                    > >>>
                                    > >>Please
                                    > >>
                                    > >>>>leave us in
                                    > >>>>peace - or discuss Slovak politics. I doubt
                                    > that
                                    > >>>>you ae winning any
                                    > >>>>to your ideas, and you certainly are offending a
                                    > >>>>lot.
                                    > >>>>
                                    > >>>>Ron
                                    > >>>
                                    > >
                                    > > __________________________________
                                    > > Do you Yahoo!?
                                    > > Yahoo! Finance: Get your refund fast by filing
                                    > online.
                                    > > http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >


                                    __________________________________
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                                    Yahoo! Finance: Get your refund fast by filing online.
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                                  • amiak27
                                    Jack, it is a significant part of those who chose to vote. Your nonsense and political BS is too much for me and it seems you do leave no choice but to vote
                                    Message 17 of 24 , Feb 11, 2004
                                    • 0 Attachment
                                      Jack, it is a significant part of those who chose to vote. Your
                                      nonsense and political BS is too much for me and it seems you do
                                      leave no choice but to vote with my feet. My first step will be to
                                      switch from web reading of S-W with the other forums to delivery to
                                      my alternate email address, and to see if it has built in filters to
                                      filter you out. If not, the second step is to quit S-W entirely.

                                      I hope your selfishness and narrow-mindedness does not permeate all
                                      other aspects of your life. That would make it quite miserable for
                                      people around you.

                                      Ron

                                      --- In Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com, capt jack <captjack00@y...>
                                      wrote:
                                      > "Out of about 161 people on SLovak World, that is about 17% of the
                                      total."
                                      >
                                      > A minority I might add Ron.
                                      >
                                      > CJ
                                    • Vladimir Bohinc
                                      Dear Don, Here, we say: Small lies, big lies, statistics I celebrated on monday too.I turned 58. We are both in a sign, that is characterized as Truth
                                      Message 18 of 24 , Feb 11, 2004
                                      • 0 Attachment
                                        Dear Don,
                                        Here, we say: " Small lies, big lies, statistics"
                                        I celebrated on monday too.I turned 58. We are both in a sign, that is characterized as "Truth seeker".
                                        Regards and congratulations,
                                        Vladimir Bohinc

                                        ----- Original Message -----
                                        From: Don Havlicek
                                        To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com
                                        Sent: Thursday, February 12, 2004 12:39 AM
                                        Subject: Re: [Slovak-World] The Very Scientific Opinion Poll


                                        Oh hell,
                                        When statistics get added to the discussion, I HAVE to put in my 2 SK!
                                        Standard error is dependent on the ASSUMPTION that the remainder of the
                                        'population' that was NOT surveyed is NORMALLY distributed.
                                        Wrote part of my Master's Thesis on the FALLACY of this assumption.
                                        A simple example:

                                        N=1000 [members of a group]

                                        A survey is taken of 100 of them ... [that's 10% .. VERY LARGE % to survey!]

                                        Now .. let's assume the result is:

                                        60% choose A .. and
                                        40% choose B.

                                        You do the math, based on the 'standard error' formula that Dr Q just
                                        described. VERY IMPRESSIVE, indeed! ... Gallup and Zogby would love
                                        that kind of result! ... BUT

                                        BUT...
                                        BUT...

                                        It is POSSIBLE [here goes the 'non-NORMAL distribution argument]:

                                        the remaining 900 might ALL choose 'A' ... meaning the vote would result as:

                                        A = 960
                                        B = 40 ...... 96% to 4% .... BUT...

                                        BUT...
                                        BUT...

                                        the remaining 900 might all choose 'B' ... meaning the vote would result as:

                                        A = 60
                                        B = 940 ..... 94% to 6% .. THE OTHER WAY !

                                        That means ... with a NON-NORMAL distribution:

                                        The error is: +/- 54%

                                        End of statistical argument!
                                        S'Bohom
                                        Don Havlicek
                                        Connersville, IN

                                        p.s. ....I celebrated two 'anniversaries' on Monday .. 67th birthday..
                                        and 50 years as a licensed radio amateur operator!


                                        Dr. Joe Q wrote:
                                        > That's "only" a 23.6% standard error. At least the TV
                                        > stations use the 3% error rule because they use 1,000
                                        > answers (they may have gotten more answers but they
                                        > chose 1,000).
                                        >
                                        > Standard error % = ((square root of N)/N)(100)
                                        >
                                        > The best standard error you could have gotten was 7.9%
                                        > with 161; but if all had voted at least you would have
                                        > a measure of their opinion and statistics would have
                                        > no meaning.
                                        >
                                        > Maybe the other 143 members have a life?
                                        >
                                        > Dr. "Q"
                                        >
                                        > --- amiak27 <rmat@...> wrote:
                                        >
                                        >>Jack & Ray,
                                        >>
                                        >>In the poll on posting politics, there are 18, 6 and
                                        >>3 votes
                                        >>tallied. 18 against politics, 3 for politics and 6
                                        >>who don't care.
                                        >>Out of about 161 people on SLovak World, that is
                                        >>about 17% of the
                                        >>total.
                                        >>
                                        >>Of those who cared enough to vote (and were not
                                        >>defeated by
                                        >>electronic hanging chad), 2/3 voted for no politics.
                                        >>
                                        >>Do you have so little respect for people on S-W that
                                        >>you continue to
                                        >>post your crap? I find it insulting. Go to
                                        >>political rallies and
                                        >>bars if you want to stick in your politics. Please
                                        >>leave us in
                                        >>peace - or discuss Slovak politics. I doubt that
                                        >>you ae winning any
                                        >>to your ideas, and you certainly are offending a
                                        >>lot.
                                        >>
                                        >>Ron
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > __________________________________
                                        > Do you Yahoo!?
                                        > Yahoo! Finance: Get your refund fast by filing online.
                                        > http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >




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                                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                      • yawho2001
                                        ... There are lies, damned lies, and statistics! - B.Disraeli ... is characterized as Truth seeker . ... It is proven that the celebration of birthdays is
                                        Message 19 of 24 , Feb 12, 2004
                                        • 0 Attachment
                                          --- In Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com, "Vladimir Bohinc" <konekta@n...>
                                          wrote:
                                          > Dear Don,
                                          > Here, we say: " Small lies, big lies, statistics"

                                          There are lies, damned lies, and statistics! - B.Disraeli

                                          > I celebrated on monday too.I turned 58. We are both in a sign, that
                                          is characterized as "Truth seeker".
                                          > Regards and congratulations,
                                          > Vladimir Bohinc

                                          It is proven that the celebration of birthdays is healthy. Statistics
                                          show that those people who celebrate the most birthdays become the
                                          oldest.

                                          Congratulations.

                                          Janko
                                        • Nick Holcz
                                          ... Only problem is that the older you get the faster the birthdays seem to come around. Nick
                                          Message 20 of 24 , Feb 12, 2004
                                          • 0 Attachment
                                            At 04:11 PM 12/02/2004, you wrote:

                                            >It is proven that the celebration of birthdays is healthy. Statistics
                                            >show that those people who celebrate the most birthdays become the
                                            >oldest.
                                            >
                                            >Congratulations.
                                            >
                                            >Janko

                                            Only problem is that the older you get the faster the birthdays seem to
                                            come around.

                                            Nick
                                          • krejc@aol.com
                                            Dear Don and Vladimir, May both of you have a happy birthday and a good year ahead. Noreen [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                            Message 21 of 24 , Feb 12, 2004
                                            • 0 Attachment
                                              Dear Don and Vladimir,
                                              May both of you have a happy birthday and a good year ahead.
                                              Noreen


                                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                            • Don Havlicek
                                              Vladi, Congratulations to you, dear friend! My future plans include another trip to Slovakia [was there last in 1995]. Perhaps we can sip chai and talk family
                                              Message 22 of 24 , Feb 12, 2004
                                              • 0 Attachment
                                                Vladi,
                                                Congratulations to you, dear friend!
                                                My future plans include another trip to Slovakia [was there last in
                                                1995]. Perhaps we can sip chai and talk family roots!
                                                Hope your day was as good as mine .. got to be with my only grandchild
                                                .. Grandson Dylan !!
                                                S'Bohom
                                                Don Havlicek
                                                Connersville, IN

                                                Vladimir Bohinc wrote:
                                                > Dear Don,
                                                > Here, we say: " Small lies, big lies, statistics"
                                                > I celebrated on monday too.I turned 58. We are both in a sign, that is characterized as "Truth seeker".
                                                > Regards and congratulations,
                                                > Vladimir Bohinc
                                                >
                                                > ----- Original Message -----
                                                > From: Don Havlicek
                                                > To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com
                                                > Sent: Thursday, February 12, 2004 12:39 AM
                                                > Subject: Re: [Slovak-World] The Very Scientific Opinion Poll
                                                >
                                                >
                                                > Oh hell,
                                                > When statistics get added to the discussion, I HAVE to put in my 2 SK!
                                                > Standard error is dependent on the ASSUMPTION that the remainder of the
                                                > 'population' that was NOT surveyed is NORMALLY distributed.
                                                > Wrote part of my Master's Thesis on the FALLACY of this assumption.
                                                > A simple example:
                                                >
                                                > N=1000 [members of a group]
                                                >
                                                > A survey is taken of 100 of them ... [that's 10% .. VERY LARGE % to survey!]
                                                >
                                                > Now .. let's assume the result is:
                                                >
                                                > 60% choose A .. and
                                                > 40% choose B.
                                                >
                                                > You do the math, based on the 'standard error' formula that Dr Q just
                                                > described. VERY IMPRESSIVE, indeed! ... Gallup and Zogby would love
                                                > that kind of result! ... BUT
                                                >
                                                > BUT...
                                                > BUT...
                                                >
                                                > It is POSSIBLE [here goes the 'non-NORMAL distribution argument]:
                                                >
                                                > the remaining 900 might ALL choose 'A' ... meaning the vote would result as:
                                                >
                                                > A = 960
                                                > B = 40 ...... 96% to 4% .... BUT...
                                                >
                                                > BUT...
                                                > BUT...
                                                >
                                                > the remaining 900 might all choose 'B' ... meaning the vote would result as:
                                                >
                                                > A = 60
                                                > B = 940 ..... 94% to 6% .. THE OTHER WAY !
                                                >
                                                > That means ... with a NON-NORMAL distribution:
                                                >
                                                > The error is: +/- 54%
                                                >
                                                > End of statistical argument!
                                                > S'Bohom
                                                > Don Havlicek
                                                > Connersville, IN
                                                >
                                                > p.s. ....I celebrated two 'anniversaries' on Monday .. 67th birthday..
                                                > and 50 years as a licensed radio amateur operator!
                                                >
                                                >
                                                > Dr. Joe Q wrote:
                                                > > That's "only" a 23.6% standard error. At least the TV
                                                > > stations use the 3% error rule because they use 1,000
                                                > > answers (they may have gotten more answers but they
                                                > > chose 1,000).
                                                > >
                                                > > Standard error % = ((square root of N)/N)(100)
                                                > >
                                                > > The best standard error you could have gotten was 7.9%
                                                > > with 161; but if all had voted at least you would have
                                                > > a measure of their opinion and statistics would have
                                                > > no meaning.
                                                > >
                                                > > Maybe the other 143 members have a life?
                                                > >
                                                > > Dr. "Q"
                                                > >
                                                > > --- amiak27 <rmat@...> wrote:
                                                > >
                                                > >>Jack & Ray,
                                                > >>
                                                > >>In the poll on posting politics, there are 18, 6 and
                                                > >>3 votes
                                                > >>tallied. 18 against politics, 3 for politics and 6
                                                > >>who don't care.
                                                > >>Out of about 161 people on SLovak World, that is
                                                > >>about 17% of the
                                                > >>total.
                                                > >>
                                                > >>Of those who cared enough to vote (and were not
                                                > >>defeated by
                                                > >>electronic hanging chad), 2/3 voted for no politics.
                                                > >>
                                                > >>Do you have so little respect for people on S-W that
                                                > >>you continue to
                                                > >>post your crap? I find it insulting. Go to
                                                > >>political rallies and
                                                > >>bars if you want to stick in your politics. Please
                                                > >>leave us in
                                                > >>peace - or discuss Slovak politics. I doubt that
                                                > >>you ae winning any
                                                > >>to your ideas, and you certainly are offending a
                                                > >>lot.
                                                > >>
                                                > >>Ron
                                                > >
                                                > >
                                                > > __________________________________
                                                > > Do you Yahoo!?
                                                > > Yahoo! Finance: Get your refund fast by filing online.
                                                > > http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html
                                                > >
                                                > >
                                                > >
                                                > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                > >
                                                > >
                                                > >
                                                > >
                                                > >
                                                > >
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >
                                                > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                >
                                                > a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
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                                                >
                                                > b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                                > Slovak-World-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                                >
                                                > c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >
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                                                >
                                                > Tato sprava bola preverena antivirusovym systemom NOD32.
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                                              • capt jack
                                                Happy birthday Vladimir Bohinc!!!! CJ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                Message 23 of 24 , Feb 12, 2004
                                                • 0 Attachment
                                                  Happy birthday Vladimir Bohinc!!!!

                                                  CJ


                                                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                • capt jack
                                                  John Kerry s Interesting Background If Bush can t talk to Kerry about the horrors of war, then Kerry sure as hell can t talk to anyone about the plight of the
                                                  Message 24 of 24 , Mar 2, 2004
                                                  • 0 Attachment
                                                    John Kerry's Interesting Background



                                                    If Bush can't talk to Kerry about the horrors of war, then Kerry sure as hell can't talk to anyone about the plight of the middle class. Kerry's life experience consists of living off other men's money by marrying their wives and daughters.




                                                    For over 30 years, Kerry's primary occupation has been stalking lonely heiresses. Not to get back to his combat experience, but Kerry sees a room full of wealthy widows as "a target-rich environment." This is a guy whose experience dealing with tax problems is based on spending his entire adult life being supported by rich women. What does a kept man know about taxes?

                                                    In 1970, Kerry married into the family of Julia Thorne -- a family estimated to be worth about $300 million. She got depressed, so he promptly left her and was! soon seen catting around with Hollywood starlets, mostly while the cad was still married. (Apparently, JFK really was his mentor.)



                                                    Thorne is well-bred enough to say nothing ill of her Lothario ex-husband. He is, after all, the father of her children -- a fact that never seemed to constrain him.



                                                    When Kerry was about to become the latest Heinz family charity, he sought to have his marriage to Thorne annulled, despite the fact that it had produced two children. It seems his second meal ticket, Teresa Heinz, wanted the first marriage annulled -- and Heinz is worth more than $700 million. Kerry claims he will stand up to powerful interests, but he can't even stand up to his wife.



                                                    Heinz made Kerry sign a prenuptial agreement, presumably aware of how careless he is with other people's property, such as other people's Vietnam War medals, which Kerry threw on the ground during a 1971 anti-war demonstration.



                                                    At pains to make Kerry sound like a normal American, his campaign has described how Kerry risked everything, mortgaging his home in Boston to help pay for his presidential campaign. Technically, Kerry took out a $6 million mortgage for "his share" of "the family's home" -- which was bought with the Heinz family fortune. (Why should he spend his own money? He didn't throw away his own medals.) I'm sure the average working stiff in Massachusetts can relate to a guy who borrows $6 million against his house to pay for TV ads.



                                                    Kerry's campaign has stoutly insisted that he will pay off the mortgage himself, with no help from his rich wife. Let's see: According to tax returns released by his campaign, in 2002, Kerry's income was $144,091. But as The Washington Post recently reported, even a $5 million mortgage paid back over 30 years at favorable interest rates would cost $30,389 a month -- or $364,668 a year.



                                                    The Democrats' joy at nominating Kerry is perplexing. To be sure, liberals take a peculiar, wrathful pleasure in supporting pacifist military types.

                                                    And Kerry's life story is not without a certain feral aggression. But if we're going to determine fitness for office based on life experience, Kerry clearly has no experience dealing with problems of typical Americans since he is a cad and a gigolo living in the lap of other men's money.



                                                    Kerry is like some character in a Balzac novel, an adventurer twirling the end of his mustache and preying on rich women. This low-born poseur with his threadbare pseudo-Brahmin family bought a political career with one rich woman's money, dumped her, and made off with another heiress to enable him to run for president. If Democrats want to talk about middle-class tax cuts, couldn't they nominate someone who hasn't been a poodle to rich women for past 33 years?



                                                    From Ann Coulter




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