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Re: [Slovak-World] Social status in slovak village before 1848

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  • Vladimir Bohinc
    Dear Helen, Valla, Stupava 1592, colonus Vallo, Pruske 1683, colonus Valo, Bytcica 1626, inquilinus Vanso, Rajec 1688,? Wanczo, Pecenady, 1522, colonus
    Message 1 of 16 , Sep 1, 2003
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      Dear Helen,
      Valla, Stupava 1592, colonus
      Vallo, Pruske 1683, colonus
      Valo, Bytcica 1626, inquilinus
      Vanso, Rajec 1688,?
      Wanczo, Pecenady, 1522, colonus
      Wanczowiat,Ortutova,1618,?
      Vladimir

      ----- Original Message -----
      From: "Helen France" <hwfr@...>
      To: <Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Monday, September 01, 2003 6:54 AM
      Subject: RE: [Slovak-World] Social status in slovak village before 1848


      > Thanks, Vladimir, for all the great information you provide for us!
      >
      > Could you check your database for the following surnames: Valla (from
      > Laksarska Nova Ves) and Vanco/Vancso (from Veresvar).
      >
      > I thank you for the informationl
      >
      > Helen France
      >
      >
      > -----Original Message-----
      > From: Vladimir Bohinc [mailto:konekta@...]
      > Sent: Sunday, August 31, 2003 4:37 PM
      > To: Slovak World
      > Subject: [Slovak-World] Social status in slovak village before 1848
      >
      >
      > Dear Members,
      > Not much has been said about this topic on this list and since there are
      > some discussions about the records etc, I thought, this might contribute a
      > little to better understanding of the social hierarchy in a slovak village
      > under feudalism.
      > Almost all villages were founded out there in the woods, out of nothing.
      > A man, who had a contract with the Landlord, and was responsible for one
      > village, to bring the people there, and to oversee the construction etc,
      was
      > called Soltys, or Locator. He was the first Mayor, and his descendants
      > inherited this right.
      > Some even took a surname Soltys. Others took the name of the place as
      > surname ( or was it vice versa? I am not sure about that) The fact is,
      that
      > I found many old Mayors to have names the same as the place they were
      > living in.
      > After the village was established, they got a grace periond of 6 or 8
      years,
      > where they did not have to pay any taxes. They had to cultivate the land
      and
      > bring up the livestock etc. Such a grace period is in slovak called
      > "Lehota". This is why so many places have such name Lehota.
      > Such a Soltys, or Richtar or Judex or Fojt, was the number one in the
      > village.( was A.J.Foyt, a famus Indiannapolis racer of sloavk origin?)
      > At times, there were more than one at the same time, some being ex Judex.
      > Basic agricultural and Taxing unit of land property was called "Usadlost"
      or
      > "Sessio" or "Lan" or "Hof" or "Rola".
      > The size of it was depending upon the quality of land and varied very
      > much.It was supposed to feed one family.
      > It included the land in the village ( Intravilan)and also outside
      > (Extravilan). As many of you have already seen, slovak villages usually
      have
      > houses alongside the main road. A standard width for a full Sessio was
      about
      > 30 yards or steps.
      > In the beginning, every family got such a property. With time, these
      > properties (Sessio), began to divide in halfs, thirds, quarters and
      smaller
      > parts, depending on number of children or for other reasons.
      > If you look at a village house today, you still can see, whether it was a
      > full sessio or what part of it. Pretty exacty,
      > A man, that had such a Sessio was called Sedliak, or Jobbagion or Colonus
      or
      > Sessionatus.
      > In the beginning, this was the most numerous layer of population.
      > They were No.2 in the hierarchy. They had land and a home.
      > With division of Sessios, the property became smaller and smaller. If it
      was
      > smaller than 1/8 of the full size, it was not a Sedliak any more.
      > Here we come to the cathegory No.3, which is called Zeliar, or Inquilinus
      or
      > Hofer or Hostak or Domkar or Chalupnik.
      > They had a small house and a small piece of land.
      > Many Mayors had their "own" Inquilini on their land. So did also some
      > priests.
      > Cathegory No.4 was so called "Subinqilinus" or "Podludnik". They did not
      > have their own house and also had no land. They were living with another
      > Inquilinus as servants.
      > Craftsmen like blacksmiths or millers etc were living as Inquilini or
      > Subinquilini. They did not need land for their living.
      > A special class were "Libertini". ( Thus the surname Slobodnik)
      > They possessed papers, that gave them freedom from most of the Taxes and
      > duties to the Landlord.
      > The last one in the village was naturally a beggar or mendicus or zobrak.
      > ===============
      > In last couple of weeks I entered over 12000 oldest surnames, which I
      found
      > in Urbar books from 16th and 17th century.
      > These are the sources of first known surnames of subjects, that were not
      of
      > noble origin, meaning ordinary people, from the territory of present
      > Slovakia and some parts of Poland and Hungary.
      > It is very interesting to see those surnames, that probably were created
      not
      > long before the books were written.
      > In many cases one can see surnames like Polak, Rusnak, Lengyel, Slovenec,
      > Slovak, Czech, Crawat,Valach, which indicates, that this person, or his
      > ancestor, did not have a particular surname, and was given such based on
      the
      > country of his origin.
      > There are many examples, where the miller was called Mlinar or Molnar, a
      > fisherman was called Rybar, etc. This clearly indicates, that this surname
      > was given either to this person or to his father, probably not further
      back.
      > For a limited number of names I can have a look into the data base, to see
      > what was the original spelling and what was the location and status then.
      In
      > many cases it can be seen, where this surname began to spread from.
      > Inquiries are welcome.
      > Another interesting fact is also, that in every Castle Estate, there were
      > always some Sessios deserted.
      > meaning, the people left to some better places. Naturally, the Landlord
      was
      > interested to have as many as possible subjects, so there were always new
      > people coming. The history of Slovakia is full of migration.
      > best regards,
      > Vladimir
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >
      >
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      >
      >
      >
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      >
      >
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >
      >
      >
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      > Slovak-World-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
      >
      >
      >
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      >
      >
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    • Vladimir Bohinc
      Dear Joyce, Kristof, Partizanska Lupca, 1625, colonus Kristoff, Keckovce,1618, ? This indicates, that the surname Kristofik may have evolved from Kristof after
      Message 2 of 16 , Sep 1, 2003
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        Dear Joyce,
        Kristof, Partizanska Lupca, 1625, colonus
        Kristoff, Keckovce,1618, ?
        This indicates, that the surname Kristofik may have evolved from Kristof
        after the above years.
        One Kristofik is living beneath me.
        Vladimir

        ----- Original Message -----
        From: <WHew536674@...>
        To: <Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com>
        Sent: Monday, September 01, 2003 3:08 AM
        Subject: Re: [Slovak-World] Social status in slovak village before 1848


        > Dear Vladimir,
        >
        > Thank you for that information. Not only was it interesting, but it
        helped
        > me a lot. I have been putting together a pedigree chart of my direct
        line, and
        > including family sheets of all their children which I am going to share
        with
        > my family. Pedigree charts in themselves are no all that interesting so I
        > also have been writing a bit of the history, culture and customs for each
        > generation of grandparents. Well, I am back to pre 1848 in the writing
        and back to
        > 1750s in church films and still finding my direct line of Kristofiks (and
        a few
        > others) from Jelsava. I have done a lot of research on the web and have
        > acquired a few history books, but most of it deals with political history
        and it
        > is difficult to find anything that talks about the daily lives of the
        average
        > person. Since most of our ancestors were average people, I think this is
        what
        > most people doing genealogy research are mainly interested in. As a
        result I
        > found what you wrote great. I am sure there is a lot more historical
        > information in Slovakia on Slovakia than we could find in the US, so I
        appreciate what
        > you have posted now and in the past.
        >
        > If you have time could you do a look up for the name Kristofik. From the
        > research I have done I suspect the name may have started out in the
        counties of
        > Trencin and/or Nitra.
        >
        > Thank you,
        > Joyce
        >
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
        >
        >
        > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
        > Slovak-World-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
        >
        >
        >
        > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
        >
        >
        >
        > __________ Informacia od NOD32 1.489 (20030819) __________
        >
        > Tato sprava bola preverena antivirusovym systemom NOD32.
        > http://www.eset.sk
        >
        >
      • Vladimir Bohinc
        Dear Julie, Sorry, no Micutka or Micut in those early books. They must have come later or were somewhere, not covered by the books. Vladimir ... From: J.
        Message 3 of 16 , Sep 1, 2003
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          Dear Julie,
          Sorry, no Micutka or Micut in those early books. They must have come later
          or were somewhere, not covered by the books.
          Vladimir

          ----- Original Message -----
          From: "J. Michutka" <jmm@...>
          To: <Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com>
          Sent: Monday, September 01, 2003 1:36 AM
          Subject: Re: [Slovak-World] Social status in slovak village before 1848


          > At 12:37 AM 9/1/03 +0200, you wrote:
          > >Dear Members,
          > >Not much has been said about this topic on this list and since there are
          > >some discussions about the records etc, I thought, this might contribute
          a
          > >little to better understanding of the social hierarchy in a slovak
          village
          > >under feudalism.
          >
          > D'akujem Vam for a fascinating post! I'm going to print it off and keep
          it
          > in the notebook that I take with me when I look at microfilmed records.
          >
          > Julie Michutka, suburbnik (suburbnika??)
          > jmm@...
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
          > Slovak-World-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
          >
          >
          >
          > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
          >
          >
          >
          > __________ Informacia od NOD32 1.489 (20030819) __________
          >
          > Tato sprava bola preverena antivirusovym systemom NOD32.
          > http://www.eset.sk
          >
          >
        • Vladimir Bohinc
          Dear Jim, I know how it is. They won t let you breathe:-) A similar thing happened to me a week ago. I had a visitor from your continent, who came to
          Message 4 of 16 , Sep 1, 2003
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            Dear Jim,
            I know how it is. They won't let you breathe:-)
            A similar thing happened to me a week ago. I had a visitor from your
            continent, who came to Bratislava early in the morning, for one day, to make
            a trip to his village. It was a 500 km trip, so time was precious.
            When we arrived there, we were "taken hostage" by a family, that was not
            related at all. We had only four hours, to see the place, find the graves
            and the house, but most of the time, we were kept eating and drinking:-) One
            can not be so unpolite to turn down such offers. They have visitors maybe
            once in 10 years. At the end of the world.
            I was driving like hell to catch the train back to Vienna.
            Vladimir


            ----- Original Message -----
            From: "capt jack" <captjack00@...>
            To: <Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com>
            Sent: Monday, September 01, 2003 12:57 AM
            Subject: Re: [Slovak-World] Social status in slovak village before 1848


            > Vladimir,
            >
            > First off, let me apologize for being so busy visiting my relatives and
            being entertained by them, I did not have an opportuity to visit with you.
            perhaps next trip when things are less hectic, for this trip I was kept very
            busy and treated as if I would never return.
            > It is very interesting what you write about slovak villages, I have
            old letters stating that one of my ancestors was in such a position as
            landlord/land owner of a cillage, and because of the poor people in the
            village who could not pay him the taxes, he eventually lost all the land for
            being kind and understanding to these people.
            >
            > Jim
            >
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >
            >
            >
            > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
            > Slovak-World-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
            >
            >
            >
            > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
            >
            >
            >
            > __________ Informacia od NOD32 1.489 (20030819) __________
            >
            > Tato sprava bola preverena antivirusovym systemom NOD32.
            > http://www.eset.sk
            >
            >
          • William C Wormuth
            Helen, I have listings in my Phone book, for both Vanc~o, in C~ervenik, (Veres~var), and Valla, in Laks~arska Nova Ves. Vilo
            Message 5 of 16 , Sep 1, 2003
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              Helen,

              I have listings in my Phone book, for both Vanc~o, in C~ervenik,
              (Veres~var), and Valla, in Laks~arska Nova Ves.

              Vilo

              Helen France wrote:
              > Thanks, Vladimir, for all the great information you provide for us!
              >
              > Could you check your database for the following surnames: Valla (from
              > Laksarska Nova Ves) and Vanco/Vancso (from Veresvar).
              >
              > I thank you for the informationl
              >
              > Helen France
              >
              >
              > -----Original Message-----
              > From: Vladimir Bohinc [mailto:konekta@...]
              > Sent: Sunday, August 31, 2003 4:37 PM
              > To: Slovak World
              > Subject: [Slovak-World] Social status in slovak village before 1848
              >
              >
              > Dear Members,
              > Not much has been said about this topic on this list and since there are
              > some discussions about the records etc, I thought, this might contribute a
              > little to better understanding of the social hierarchy in a slovak village
              > under feudalism.
              > Almost all villages were founded out there in the woods, out of nothing.
              > A man, who had a contract with the Landlord, and was responsible for one
              > village, to bring the people there, and to oversee the construction etc, was
              > called Soltys, or Locator. He was the first Mayor, and his descendants
              > inherited this right.
              > Some even took a surname Soltys. Others took the name of the place as
              > surname ( or was it vice versa? I am not sure about that) The fact is, that
              > I found many old Mayors to have names the same as the place they were
              > living in.
              > After the village was established, they got a grace periond of 6 or 8 years,
              > where they did not have to pay any taxes. They had to cultivate the land and
              > bring up the livestock etc. Such a grace period is in slovak called
              > "Lehota". This is why so many places have such name Lehota.
              > Such a Soltys, or Richtar or Judex or Fojt, was the number one in the
              > village.( was A.J.Foyt, a famus Indiannapolis racer of sloavk origin?)
              > At times, there were more than one at the same time, some being ex Judex.
              > Basic agricultural and Taxing unit of land property was called "Usadlost" or
              > "Sessio" or "Lan" or "Hof" or "Rola".
              > The size of it was depending upon the quality of land and varied very
              > much.It was supposed to feed one family.
              > It included the land in the village ( Intravilan)and also outside
              > (Extravilan). As many of you have already seen, slovak villages usually have
              > houses alongside the main road. A standard width for a full Sessio was about
              > 30 yards or steps.
              > In the beginning, every family got such a property. With time, these
              > properties (Sessio), began to divide in halfs, thirds, quarters and smaller
              > parts, depending on number of children or for other reasons.
              > If you look at a village house today, you still can see, whether it was a
              > full sessio or what part of it. Pretty exacty,
              > A man, that had such a Sessio was called Sedliak, or Jobbagion or Colonus or
              > Sessionatus.
              > In the beginning, this was the most numerous layer of population.
              > They were No.2 in the hierarchy. They had land and a home.
              > With division of Sessios, the property became smaller and smaller. If it was
              > smaller than 1/8 of the full size, it was not a Sedliak any more.
              > Here we come to the cathegory No.3, which is called Zeliar, or Inquilinus or
              > Hofer or Hostak or Domkar or Chalupnik.
              > They had a small house and a small piece of land.
              > Many Mayors had their "own" Inquilini on their land. So did also some
              > priests.
              > Cathegory No.4 was so called "Subinqilinus" or "Podludnik". They did not
              > have their own house and also had no land. They were living with another
              > Inquilinus as servants.
              > Craftsmen like blacksmiths or millers etc were living as Inquilini or
              > Subinquilini. They did not need land for their living.
              > A special class were "Libertini". ( Thus the surname Slobodnik)
              > They possessed papers, that gave them freedom from most of the Taxes and
              > duties to the Landlord.
              > The last one in the village was naturally a beggar or mendicus or zobrak.
              > ===============
              > In last couple of weeks I entered over 12000 oldest surnames, which I found
              > in Urbar books from 16th and 17th century.
              > These are the sources of first known surnames of subjects, that were not of
              > noble origin, meaning ordinary people, from the territory of present
              > Slovakia and some parts of Poland and Hungary.
              > It is very interesting to see those surnames, that probably were created not
              > long before the books were written.
              > In many cases one can see surnames like Polak, Rusnak, Lengyel, Slovenec,
              > Slovak, Czech, Crawat,Valach, which indicates, that this person, or his
              > ancestor, did not have a particular surname, and was given such based on the
              > country of his origin.
              > There are many examples, where the miller was called Mlinar or Molnar, a
              > fisherman was called Rybar, etc. This clearly indicates, that this surname
              > was given either to this person or to his father, probably not further back.
              > For a limited number of names I can have a look into the data base, to see
              > what was the original spelling and what was the location and status then. In
              > many cases it can be seen, where this surname began to spread from.
              > Inquiries are welcome.
              > Another interesting fact is also, that in every Castle Estate, there were
              > always some Sessios deserted.
              > meaning, the people left to some better places. Naturally, the Landlord was
              > interested to have as many as possible subjects, so there were always new
              > people coming. The history of Slovakia is full of migration.
              > best regards,
              > Vladimir
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
              >
              > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
              > ADVERTISEMENT
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
              > Slovak-World-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
              >
              >
              >
              > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
              >
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
              >
              >
              > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
              > Slovak-World-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
              >
              >
              >
              > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
              >
              >
              >
              >
            • Helen France
              Thanks for the information, Vladimir! ... From: Vladimir Bohinc [mailto:konekta@nm.psg.sk] Sent: Monday, September 01, 2003 1:45 AM To:
              Message 6 of 16 , Sep 1, 2003
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                Thanks for the information, Vladimir!


                -----Original Message-----
                From: Vladimir Bohinc [mailto:konekta@...]
                Sent: Monday, September 01, 2003 1:45 AM
                To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: Re: [Slovak-World] Social status in slovak village before 1848


                Dear Helen,
                Valla, Stupava 1592, colonus
                Vallo, Pruske 1683, colonus
                Valo, Bytcica 1626, inquilinus
                Vanso, Rajec 1688,?
                Wanczo, Pecenady, 1522, colonus
                Wanczowiat,Ortutova,1618,?
                Vladimir

                ----- Original Message -----
                From: "Helen France" <hwfr@...>
                To: <Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com>
                Sent: Monday, September 01, 2003 6:54 AM
                Subject: RE: [Slovak-World] Social status in slovak village before 1848


                > Thanks, Vladimir, for all the great information you provide for us!
                >
                > Could you check your database for the following surnames: Valla (from
                > Laksarska Nova Ves) and Vanco/Vancso (from Veresvar).
                >
                > I thank you for the informationl
                >
                > Helen France
                >
                >
                > -----Original Message-----
                > From: Vladimir Bohinc [mailto:konekta@...]
                > Sent: Sunday, August 31, 2003 4:37 PM
                > To: Slovak World
                > Subject: [Slovak-World] Social status in slovak village before 1848
                >
                >
                > Dear Members,
                > Not much has been said about this topic on this list and since there are
                > some discussions about the records etc, I thought, this might contribute a
                > little to better understanding of the social hierarchy in a slovak village
                > under feudalism.
                > Almost all villages were founded out there in the woods, out of nothing.
                > A man, who had a contract with the Landlord, and was responsible for one
                > village, to bring the people there, and to oversee the construction etc,
                was
                > called Soltys, or Locator. He was the first Mayor, and his descendants
                > inherited this right.
                > Some even took a surname Soltys. Others took the name of the place as
                > surname ( or was it vice versa? I am not sure about that) The fact is,
                that
                > I found many old Mayors to have names the same as the place they were
                > living in.
                > After the village was established, they got a grace periond of 6 or 8
                years,
                > where they did not have to pay any taxes. They had to cultivate the land
                and
                > bring up the livestock etc. Such a grace period is in slovak called
                > "Lehota". This is why so many places have such name Lehota.
                > Such a Soltys, or Richtar or Judex or Fojt, was the number one in the
                > village.( was A.J.Foyt, a famus Indiannapolis racer of sloavk origin?)
                > At times, there were more than one at the same time, some being ex Judex.
                > Basic agricultural and Taxing unit of land property was called "Usadlost"
                or
                > "Sessio" or "Lan" or "Hof" or "Rola".
                > The size of it was depending upon the quality of land and varied very
                > much.It was supposed to feed one family.
                > It included the land in the village ( Intravilan)and also outside
                > (Extravilan). As many of you have already seen, slovak villages usually
                have
                > houses alongside the main road. A standard width for a full Sessio was
                about
                > 30 yards or steps.
                > In the beginning, every family got such a property. With time, these
                > properties (Sessio), began to divide in halfs, thirds, quarters and
                smaller
                > parts, depending on number of children or for other reasons.
                > If you look at a village house today, you still can see, whether it was a
                > full sessio or what part of it. Pretty exacty,
                > A man, that had such a Sessio was called Sedliak, or Jobbagion or Colonus
                or
                > Sessionatus.
                > In the beginning, this was the most numerous layer of population.
                > They were No.2 in the hierarchy. They had land and a home.
                > With division of Sessios, the property became smaller and smaller. If it
                was
                > smaller than 1/8 of the full size, it was not a Sedliak any more.
                > Here we come to the cathegory No.3, which is called Zeliar, or Inquilinus
                or
                > Hofer or Hostak or Domkar or Chalupnik.
                > They had a small house and a small piece of land.
                > Many Mayors had their "own" Inquilini on their land. So did also some
                > priests.
                > Cathegory No.4 was so called "Subinqilinus" or "Podludnik". They did not
                > have their own house and also had no land. They were living with another
                > Inquilinus as servants.
                > Craftsmen like blacksmiths or millers etc were living as Inquilini or
                > Subinquilini. They did not need land for their living.
                > A special class were "Libertini". ( Thus the surname Slobodnik)
                > They possessed papers, that gave them freedom from most of the Taxes and
                > duties to the Landlord.
                > The last one in the village was naturally a beggar or mendicus or zobrak.
                > ===============
                > In last couple of weeks I entered over 12000 oldest surnames, which I
                found
                > in Urbar books from 16th and 17th century.
                > These are the sources of first known surnames of subjects, that were not
                of
                > noble origin, meaning ordinary people, from the territory of present
                > Slovakia and some parts of Poland and Hungary.
                > It is very interesting to see those surnames, that probably were created
                not
                > long before the books were written.
                > In many cases one can see surnames like Polak, Rusnak, Lengyel, Slovenec,
                > Slovak, Czech, Crawat,Valach, which indicates, that this person, or his
                > ancestor, did not have a particular surname, and was given such based on
                the
                > country of his origin.
                > There are many examples, where the miller was called Mlinar or Molnar, a
                > fisherman was called Rybar, etc. This clearly indicates, that this surname
                > was given either to this person or to his father, probably not further
                back.
                > For a limited number of names I can have a look into the data base, to see
                > what was the original spelling and what was the location and status then.
                In
                > many cases it can be seen, where this surname began to spread from.
                > Inquiries are welcome.
                > Another interesting fact is also, that in every Castle Estate, there were
                > always some Sessios deserted.
                > meaning, the people left to some better places. Naturally, the Landlord
                was
                > interested to have as many as possible subjects, so there were always new
                > people coming. The history of Slovakia is full of migration.
                > best regards,
                > Vladimir
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >
                >
                > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
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                >
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                >
                >
                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >
                >
                >
                > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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                >
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                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Helen France
                Vilo, I m sorry but I don t understand. What phone book do you mean? Helen ... From: William C Wormuth [mailto:senzus@superior.net] Sent: Monday, September
                Message 7 of 16 , Sep 1, 2003
                • 0 Attachment
                  Vilo,

                  I'm sorry but I don't understand. What phone book do you mean?

                  Helen
                  -----Original Message-----
                  From: William C Wormuth [mailto:senzus@...]
                  Sent: Monday, September 01, 2003 7:28 AM
                  To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: Re: [Slovak-World] Social status in slovak village before 1848


                  Helen,

                  I have listings in my Phone book, for both Vanc~o, in C~ervenik,
                  (Veres~var), and Valla, in Laks~arska Nova Ves.

                  Vilo

                  Helen France wrote:
                  > Thanks, Vladimir, for all the great information you provide for us!
                  >
                  > Could you check your database for the following surnames: Valla (from
                  > Laksarska Nova Ves) and Vanco/Vancso (from Veresvar).
                  >
                  > I thank you for the informationl
                  >
                  > Helen France
                  >
                  >
                  > -----Original Message-----
                  > From: Vladimir Bohinc [mailto:konekta@...]
                  > Sent: Sunday, August 31, 2003 4:37 PM
                  > To: Slovak World
                  > Subject: [Slovak-World] Social status in slovak village before 1848
                  >
                  >
                  > Dear Members,
                  > Not much has been said about this topic on this list and since there are
                  > some discussions about the records etc, I thought, this might contribute a
                  > little to better understanding of the social hierarchy in a slovak village
                  > under feudalism.
                  > Almost all villages were founded out there in the woods, out of nothing.
                  > A man, who had a contract with the Landlord, and was responsible for one
                  > village, to bring the people there, and to oversee the construction etc,
                  was
                  > called Soltys, or Locator. He was the first Mayor, and his descendants
                  > inherited this right.
                  > Some even took a surname Soltys. Others took the name of the place as
                  > surname ( or was it vice versa? I am not sure about that) The fact is,
                  that
                  > I found many old Mayors to have names the same as the place they were
                  > living in.
                  > After the village was established, they got a grace periond of 6 or 8
                  years,
                  > where they did not have to pay any taxes. They had to cultivate the land
                  and
                  > bring up the livestock etc. Such a grace period is in slovak called
                  > "Lehota". This is why so many places have such name Lehota.
                  > Such a Soltys, or Richtar or Judex or Fojt, was the number one in the
                  > village.( was A.J.Foyt, a famus Indiannapolis racer of sloavk origin?)
                  > At times, there were more than one at the same time, some being ex Judex.
                  > Basic agricultural and Taxing unit of land property was called "Usadlost"
                  or
                  > "Sessio" or "Lan" or "Hof" or "Rola".
                  > The size of it was depending upon the quality of land and varied very
                  > much.It was supposed to feed one family.
                  > It included the land in the village ( Intravilan)and also outside
                  > (Extravilan). As many of you have already seen, slovak villages usually
                  have
                  > houses alongside the main road. A standard width for a full Sessio was
                  about
                  > 30 yards or steps.
                  > In the beginning, every family got such a property. With time, these
                  > properties (Sessio), began to divide in halfs, thirds, quarters and
                  smaller
                  > parts, depending on number of children or for other reasons.
                  > If you look at a village house today, you still can see, whether it was a
                  > full sessio or what part of it. Pretty exacty,
                  > A man, that had such a Sessio was called Sedliak, or Jobbagion or Colonus
                  or
                  > Sessionatus.
                  > In the beginning, this was the most numerous layer of population.
                  > They were No.2 in the hierarchy. They had land and a home.
                  > With division of Sessios, the property became smaller and smaller. If it
                  was
                  > smaller than 1/8 of the full size, it was not a Sedliak any more.
                  > Here we come to the cathegory No.3, which is called Zeliar, or Inquilinus
                  or
                  > Hofer or Hostak or Domkar or Chalupnik.
                  > They had a small house and a small piece of land.
                  > Many Mayors had their "own" Inquilini on their land. So did also some
                  > priests.
                  > Cathegory No.4 was so called "Subinqilinus" or "Podludnik". They did not
                  > have their own house and also had no land. They were living with another
                  > Inquilinus as servants.
                  > Craftsmen like blacksmiths or millers etc were living as Inquilini or
                  > Subinquilini. They did not need land for their living.
                  > A special class were "Libertini". ( Thus the surname Slobodnik)
                  > They possessed papers, that gave them freedom from most of the Taxes and
                  > duties to the Landlord.
                  > The last one in the village was naturally a beggar or mendicus or zobrak.
                  > ===============
                  > In last couple of weeks I entered over 12000 oldest surnames, which I
                  found
                  > in Urbar books from 16th and 17th century.
                  > These are the sources of first known surnames of subjects, that were not
                  of
                  > noble origin, meaning ordinary people, from the territory of present
                  > Slovakia and some parts of Poland and Hungary.
                  > It is very interesting to see those surnames, that probably were created
                  not
                  > long before the books were written.
                  > In many cases one can see surnames like Polak, Rusnak, Lengyel, Slovenec,
                  > Slovak, Czech, Crawat,Valach, which indicates, that this person, or his
                  > ancestor, did not have a particular surname, and was given such based on
                  the
                  > country of his origin.
                  > There are many examples, where the miller was called Mlinar or Molnar, a
                  > fisherman was called Rybar, etc. This clearly indicates, that this surname
                  > was given either to this person or to his father, probably not further
                  back.
                  > For a limited number of names I can have a look into the data base, to see
                  > what was the original spelling and what was the location and status then.
                  In
                  > many cases it can be seen, where this surname began to spread from.
                  > Inquiries are welcome.
                  > Another interesting fact is also, that in every Castle Estate, there were
                  > always some Sessios deserted.
                  > meaning, the people left to some better places. Naturally, the Landlord
                  was
                  > interested to have as many as possible subjects, so there were always new
                  > people coming. The history of Slovakia is full of migration.
                  > best regards,
                  > Vladimir
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  >
                  >
                  > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
                  > ADVERTISEMENT
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                  > Slovak-World-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
                  >
                  >
                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                  > Slovak-World-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >



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                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • William C Wormuth
                  I have a phone book, (ZLATA STRANKY TRNAVA, DUNAJSKA STREDA A SENICA ). C~ervenki is in the Trnava area and Laks~arska nova ves in the Senica area. Vilo
                  Message 8 of 16 , Sep 1, 2003
                  • 0 Attachment
                    I have a phone book, (ZLATA STRANKY TRNAVA, DUNAJSKA STREDA A SENICA ).

                    C~ervenki is in the Trnava area and Laks~arska nova ves in the Senica area.

                    Vilo

                    Helen France wrote:
                    > Vilo,
                    >
                    > I'm sorry but I don't understand. What phone book do you mean?
                    >
                    > Helen
                    > -----Original Message-----
                    > From: William C Wormuth [mailto:senzus@...]
                    > Sent: Monday, September 01, 2003 7:28 AM
                    > To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com
                    > Subject: Re: [Slovak-World] Social status in slovak village before 1848
                    >
                    >
                    > Helen,
                    >
                    > I have listings in my Phone book, for both Vanc~o, in C~ervenik,
                    > (Veres~var), and Valla, in Laks~arska Nova Ves.
                    >
                    > Vilo
                    >
                    > Helen France wrote:
                    >
                    >>Thanks, Vladimir, for all the great information you provide for us!
                    >>
                    >>Could you check your database for the following surnames: Valla (from
                    >>Laksarska Nova Ves) and Vanco/Vancso (from Veresvar).
                    >>
                    >>I thank you for the informationl
                    >>
                    >>Helen France
                    >>
                    >>
                    >>-----Original Message-----
                    >>From: Vladimir Bohinc [mailto:konekta@...]
                    >>Sent: Sunday, August 31, 2003 4:37 PM
                    >>To: Slovak World
                    >>Subject: [Slovak-World] Social status in slovak village before 1848
                    >>
                    >>
                    >>Dear Members,
                    >>Not much has been said about this topic on this list and since there are
                    >>some discussions about the records etc, I thought, this might contribute a
                    >>little to better understanding of the social hierarchy in a slovak village
                    >>under feudalism.
                    >>Almost all villages were founded out there in the woods, out of nothing.
                    >>A man, who had a contract with the Landlord, and was responsible for one
                    >>village, to bring the people there, and to oversee the construction etc,
                    >
                    > was
                    >
                    >>called Soltys, or Locator. He was the first Mayor, and his descendants
                    >>inherited this right.
                    >>Some even took a surname Soltys. Others took the name of the place as
                    >>surname ( or was it vice versa? I am not sure about that) The fact is,
                    >
                    > that
                    >
                    >>I found many old Mayors to have names the same as the place they were
                    >>living in.
                    >>After the village was established, they got a grace periond of 6 or 8
                    >
                    > years,
                    >
                    >>where they did not have to pay any taxes. They had to cultivate the land
                    >
                    > and
                    >
                    >>bring up the livestock etc. Such a grace period is in slovak called
                    >>"Lehota". This is why so many places have such name Lehota.
                    >>Such a Soltys, or Richtar or Judex or Fojt, was the number one in the
                    >>village.( was A.J.Foyt, a famus Indiannapolis racer of sloavk origin?)
                    >>At times, there were more than one at the same time, some being ex Judex.
                    >>Basic agricultural and Taxing unit of land property was called "Usadlost"
                    >
                    > or
                    >
                    >>"Sessio" or "Lan" or "Hof" or "Rola".
                    >>The size of it was depending upon the quality of land and varied very
                    >>much.It was supposed to feed one family.
                    >>It included the land in the village ( Intravilan)and also outside
                    >>(Extravilan). As many of you have already seen, slovak villages usually
                    >
                    > have
                    >
                    >>houses alongside the main road. A standard width for a full Sessio was
                    >
                    > about
                    >
                    >>30 yards or steps.
                    >>In the beginning, every family got such a property. With time, these
                    >>properties (Sessio), began to divide in halfs, thirds, quarters and
                    >
                    > smaller
                    >
                    >>parts, depending on number of children or for other reasons.
                    >>If you look at a village house today, you still can see, whether it was a
                    >>full sessio or what part of it. Pretty exacty,
                    >>A man, that had such a Sessio was called Sedliak, or Jobbagion or Colonus
                    >
                    > or
                    >
                    >>Sessionatus.
                    >>In the beginning, this was the most numerous layer of population.
                    >>They were No.2 in the hierarchy. They had land and a home.
                    >>With division of Sessios, the property became smaller and smaller. If it
                    >
                    > was
                    >
                    >>smaller than 1/8 of the full size, it was not a Sedliak any more.
                    >>Here we come to the cathegory No.3, which is called Zeliar, or Inquilinus
                    >
                    > or
                    >
                    >>Hofer or Hostak or Domkar or Chalupnik.
                    >>They had a small house and a small piece of land.
                    >>Many Mayors had their "own" Inquilini on their land. So did also some
                    >>priests.
                    >>Cathegory No.4 was so called "Subinqilinus" or "Podludnik". They did not
                    >>have their own house and also had no land. They were living with another
                    >>Inquilinus as servants.
                    >>Craftsmen like blacksmiths or millers etc were living as Inquilini or
                    >>Subinquilini. They did not need land for their living.
                    >>A special class were "Libertini". ( Thus the surname Slobodnik)
                    >>They possessed papers, that gave them freedom from most of the Taxes and
                    >>duties to the Landlord.
                    >>The last one in the village was naturally a beggar or mendicus or zobrak.
                    >>===============
                    >>In last couple of weeks I entered over 12000 oldest surnames, which I
                    >
                    > found
                    >
                    >>in Urbar books from 16th and 17th century.
                    >>These are the sources of first known surnames of subjects, that were not
                    >
                    > of
                    >
                    >>noble origin, meaning ordinary people, from the territory of present
                    >>Slovakia and some parts of Poland and Hungary.
                    >>It is very interesting to see those surnames, that probably were created
                    >
                    > not
                    >
                    >>long before the books were written.
                    >>In many cases one can see surnames like Polak, Rusnak, Lengyel, Slovenec,
                    >>Slovak, Czech, Crawat,Valach, which indicates, that this person, or his
                    >>ancestor, did not have a particular surname, and was given such based on
                    >
                    > the
                    >
                    >>country of his origin.
                    >>There are many examples, where the miller was called Mlinar or Molnar, a
                    >>fisherman was called Rybar, etc. This clearly indicates, that this surname
                    >>was given either to this person or to his father, probably not further
                    >
                    > back.
                    >
                    >>For a limited number of names I can have a look into the data base, to see
                    >>what was the original spelling and what was the location and status then.
                    >
                    > In
                    >
                    >>many cases it can be seen, where this surname began to spread from.
                    >>Inquiries are welcome.
                    >>Another interesting fact is also, that in every Castle Estate, there were
                    >>always some Sessios deserted.
                    >>meaning, the people left to some better places. Naturally, the Landlord
                    >
                    > was
                    >
                    >>interested to have as many as possible subjects, so there were always new
                    >>people coming. The history of Slovakia is full of migration.
                    >>best regards,
                    >>Vladimir
                    >>
                    >>
                    >>
                    >>
                    >>
                    >>
                    >>
                    >>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    >>
                    >>
                    >> Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
                    >> ADVERTISEMENT
                    >>
                    >>
                    >>
                    >>
                    >>To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                    >>Slovak-World-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                    >>
                    >>
                    >>
                    >>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
                    >>
                    >>
                    >>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    >>
                    >>
                    >>
                    >>To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                    >>Slovak-World-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                    >>
                    >>
                    >>
                    >>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                    >>
                    >>
                    >>
                    >>
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
                    > ADVERTISEMENT
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                    > Slovak-World-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
                    >
                    >
                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                    > Slovak-World-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
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                    >
                    >
                    >
                  • Vladimir Linder
                    See our www additions at: http://www.slovakheritage.org/news.htm Vladi
                    Message 9 of 16 , Jan 8, 2004
                    • 0 Attachment
                      See our www additions at:

                      http://www.slovakheritage.org/news.htm

                      Vladi
                    Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.