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Re: [Slovak-World] OT - Carcinogens

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  • Vladimir Bohinc
    Dear oldpro, Nothing is being nuked in the microwawe. First you have to understand the principle. of course, if somebody says the word radiation , you thnk,
    Message 1 of 6 , Aug 3, 2003
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      Dear oldpro,
      Nothing is being nuked in the microwawe.
      First you have to understand the principle.
      of course, if somebody says the word "radiation", you thnk, it is atomic
      radiation.
      Wrong. There are all kinds of radiations. Atomic radiation is with
      particles. Heat radiation is waves.
      In microwave, you have a device called magnetron, that generates microwaves,
      approximately the same sort of as radar or a mobile phone. Those waves cause
      any water molecules, that they hit, to move faster, and thus generate heat.
      There is no heat radiated in the microwawe. Put in there something, that
      contains no water, and it will not get warm.
      These microwaves are dangerous for humans, because they would heat us
      internally. Therefore the microvave oven is shielded. But the food itself
      does not get contaminated at all.
      Maximum heat, that you can anchieve there is 100% centigrade, because water
      can not be heated to a higher temperature.So, no high temperatures there at
      all.
      High temperatures, that release dioxines in fat start with about 170degrees,
      which is something completely different.
      You will never have such temperature in a microwave.
      However, there are microwaves, that have a combination of microwave heating
      and conventional heating or barbecue.
      This is another story.
      Ergo, microwave itself is no danger at all.
      I am always wondering, how come, when americans do barbecue, there are
      always flames.This is a crime on food. They just have no idea how to
      barbecue. Any flames immediately produce dioxines out of fat.Barbecueing
      must be done only with heat radiation.
      =========
      Because microwave radiation is dangerous for men, it is not advisable to be
      around radars and those places, where there are large antennas for the
      mobile telephones.
      Vladimir


      ----- Original Message -----
      From: "theoldpro" <theoldpro@...>
      To: <Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Monday, August 04, 2003 5:58 AM
      Subject: [Slovak-World] OT - Carcinogens


      > A Czech Lady friend sent me this report on Microwave cooking do's and
      > don't's
      >
      > theoldpro
      >
      > Subject: Carcinogens
      >
      >
      > DIOXINS
      > Carcinogens cause cancer. Especially breast cancer. Don't freeze your
      > plastic water bottles with water as this also releases dioxins in the
      > plastic. Dr. Edward Fujimoto from Castle Hospital was on a TV program
      > explaining this health hazard. He is the manager of the Wellness Program
      > at
      > the hospital. He was talking about dioxins and how bad they are for us.
      > He said that we should not be heating our food in the microwave using
      > plastic containers. This applies to foods that contain fat. He said
      that
      > the combination of fat, high heat and plastics releases dioxins into the
      > food and ultimately into the cells of the body. Dioxins are carcinogens
      > and
      > highly toxic to the cells of our bodies. Instead, he recommends using
      > glass, Corning Ware, or ceramic containers for heating food. You get the
      > same results without the dioxins.
      >
      > So ! ! such things as TV dinners, weight watchers dinners, lean cuisine
      > dinners, instant ramen cup of noodles, and soups, etc., should be removed
      > from the container and heated in something else. Paper isn't bad but you
      > don't know what is in the paper. Just safer to use tempered glass,
      Corning
      > Ware, etc.
      >
      > He said we might remember when some of the fast food restaurants moved
      away
      > from the foam containers to paper. The dioxin problem is one of the
      > reasons. To add to this: saran wrap placed over foods as they are nuked,
      > with the high heat, actually drips poisonous toxins into the food, so use
      > paper towels instead.
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
      > Slovak-World-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
      >
      >
      >
      > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
      >
      >
      >
    • theoldpro
      Thank you for clarifying that dioxins are released from the heating of fat when 170 degrees centigrade is reached. theoldpro ... From: Vladimir Bohinc To:
      Message 2 of 6 , Aug 4, 2003
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        Thank you for clarifying that dioxins are released from the heating of fat when 170 degrees centigrade is reached.

        theoldpro

        ----- Original Message -----
        From: Vladimir Bohinc
        To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Sunday, August 03, 2003 10:56 PM
        Subject: Re: [Slovak-World] OT - Carcinogens


        Dear oldpro,
        Nothing is being nuked in the microwawe.
        First you have to understand the principle.
        of course, if somebody says the word "radiation", you thnk, it is atomic
        radiation.
        Wrong. There are all kinds of radiations. Atomic radiation is with
        particles. Heat radiation is waves.
        In microwave, you have a device called magnetron, that generates microwaves,
        approximately the same sort of as radar or a mobile phone. Those waves cause
        any water molecules, that they hit, to move faster, and thus generate heat.
        There is no heat radiated in the microwawe. Put in there something, that
        contains no water, and it will not get warm.
        These microwaves are dangerous for humans, because they would heat us
        internally. Therefore the microvave oven is shielded. But the food itself
        does not get contaminated at all.
        Maximum heat, that you can anchieve there is 100% centigrade, because water
        can not be heated to a higher temperature.So, no high temperatures there at
        all.
        High temperatures, that release dioxines in fat start with about 170degrees,
        which is something completely different.
        You will never have such temperature in a microwave.
        However, there are microwaves, that have a combination of microwave heating
        and conventional heating or barbecue.
        This is another story.
        Ergo, microwave itself is no danger at all.
        I am always wondering, how come, when americans do barbecue, there are
        always flames.This is a crime on food. They just have no idea how to
        barbecue. Any flames immediately produce dioxines out of fat.Barbecueing
        must be done only with heat radiation.
        =========
        Because microwave radiation is dangerous for men, it is not advisable to be
        around radars and those places, where there are large antennas for the
        mobile telephones.
        Vladimir


        ----- Original Message -----
        From: "theoldpro" <theoldpro@...>
        To: <Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com>
        Sent: Monday, August 04, 2003 5:58 AM
        Subject: [Slovak-World] OT - Carcinogens


        > A Czech Lady friend sent me this report on Microwave cooking do's and
        > don't's
        >
        > theoldpro
        >
        > Subject: Carcinogens
        >
        >
        > DIOXINS
        > Carcinogens cause cancer. Especially breast cancer. Don't freeze your
        > plastic water bottles with water as this also releases dioxins in the
        > plastic. Dr. Edward Fujimoto from Castle Hospital was on a TV program
        > explaining this health hazard. He is the manager of the Wellness Program
        > at
        > the hospital. He was talking about dioxins and how bad they are for us.
        > He said that we should not be heating our food in the microwave using
        > plastic containers. This applies to foods that contain fat. He said
        that
        > the combination of fat, high heat and plastics releases dioxins into the
        > food and ultimately into the cells of the body. Dioxins are carcinogens
        > and
        > highly toxic to the cells of our bodies. Instead, he recommends using
        > glass, Corning Ware, or ceramic containers for heating food. You get the
        > same results without the dioxins.
        >
        > So ! ! such things as TV dinners, weight watchers dinners, lean cuisine
        > dinners, instant ramen cup of noodles, and soups, etc., should be removed
        > from the container and heated in something else. Paper isn't bad but you
        > don't know what is in the paper. Just safer to use tempered glass,
        Corning
        > Ware, etc.
        >
        > He said we might remember when some of the fast food restaurants moved
        away
        > from the foam containers to paper. The dioxin problem is one of the
        > reasons. To add to this: saran wrap placed over foods as they are nuked,
        > with the high heat, actually drips poisonous toxins into the food, so use
        > paper towels instead.
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
        > Slovak-World-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
        >
        >
        >
        > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
        >
        >
        >


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        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Steve Botnovcan
        About 100 years ago, when I was in the Air Force, on a cold day we would stand in front of aircraft on the ramp to get warm from their radar. Just like a
        Message 3 of 6 , Aug 4, 2003
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          About 100 years ago, when I was in the Air Force, on a cold day we would
          stand in front of aircraft on the ramp to get warm from their radar.
          Just like a microwave. Some said it would make one sterile, but I
          managed 3 kids. It is true thaat water boils at 100C (212F), but it can
          be superheated, even in a microvave...

          Tobin Fricke <tobin@...>

          November 6, 2000

          Exploding Microwave-Heated Water

          I. Introduction

          [explanation: This is in response to a certain email forward I received
          which warned in sensational language of the dangers of heating water in
          a microwave oven. The author claimed that her son was severely burned
          while trying to prepare coffee in a microwave. The allegation was that
          the microwaved water exploded in his face.]

          Unlike most sensational warnings distributed via email forwardings
          through the internet, most of which are clearly hoaxes, this one (a
          report of a mug of microwave-heated coffee exploding violently) is
          unusual because it can easily be confirmed or debunked, because it
          relies on simple physical phenomenon. I set out to determine whether
          this phenomenon actually occurs.

          II. Procedure

          I selected a clean glass mug from our apartment's selection. The
          particular mug is quite thick and has a large glass handle, so it's easy
          to handle when it contains a hot liquid. The mug is 6.35 centimeters in
          (inner) diameter.

          To begin, I thoroughly cleaned the mug to remove any particles or grease
          that might have been in it. It is also important to rinse thoroughly,
          because any remaining soap will weaken the surface tension of the water.

          For a first try, I added 200 mL tap water to the glass and set it in the
          center of the microwave. After about three minutes the water began to
          boil. I let it boil for about a minute, then removed it and allowed the
          boiling to cease. I then began to microwave it some more, and again it
          began to boil. I took it out again, let the boiling stop, and then
          started the microwave again. Once again the water began to boil, so I
          took the glass out of the microwave.

          There was something curious about how the water was boiling. It was not
          a rolling boil as one might expect, but it appeared that the water was
          only boiling near the surface, with very small bubbles. I plunged a fork
          into the water, and many large and small bubbles burst forth from all
          around fork. Clearly, something like the phenomenon described in the
          email was happening.

          I decided to start over with a smaller volume of water. I dumped out the
          water I had been using, re-cleaned the mug, and added 100 mL new water
          and began heating it in the microwave. After a few minutes the water
          began to boil slightly -- although, again, the water appeared to boil
          only near the surface. I stopped the microwave just long enough for the
          boiling to cease, then restarted the heating. This process repeated
          twice more. After this, the water remained under heating in the
          microwave for several minutes. Then, suddenly, with a tremendous
          "thwump" noise, nearly all of water burst out of the mug in a very
          satisfying mini-explosion inside the microwave oven.

          I immediately repeated this process with a new batch of 100 mL tap water
          and the same results were obtained, much to the glee of my
          now-spectating roommates.

          III. Analysis

          When the mug contained boiling water, it was clearly at the proper
          temperature to boil (approximately 100 degrees Celsius). However, I was
          able to stop the microwave heating just long enough for the boiling to
          cease, then restart the heating and not have boiling immediately resume.
          This indicates that the water was becoming super-heated, heated to a
          temperature well above its normal boiling point. Such a state MUST be
          unstable. The slightest disturbance will cause very rapid conversion
          from liquid to gas, which causes the observed explosion.

          IV. Wild, uninformed speculation

          I think this is very similar to the situation in super-saturated
          solutions. At a given temperature, there's only so much of a given solid
          that you can dissolve in a given volume of a given liquid. Beyond this
          amount, no additional solid dissolves. For instance, for a given amount
          of water at a given temperature, there is a finite and well-defined
          amount of sugar that may be dissolved. However, the amount of solid that
          may be dissolved (its solubility) usually increases with the temperature
          of the liquid (the solvent). You can dissolve more sugar in a constant
          volume of hot water than in cold. However, if you saturate a volume of
          hot water with sugar (eg, dissolve as much as possible) and then allow
          the liquid to cool, you will arrive at a state where there is more sugar
          dissolved in the liquid than is normally allowed. This is another
          unstable state, and any disturbance (such as dropping a single grain of
          crystalline sugar into the liquid) will cause the rapid formation of
          sugar crystals. Similarly, in a cloud, the air may be supersaturated
          with water, but no rain forms until a suitable nucleus (eg, a particle
          of dust) initiate the formation of droplets. In the case of our
          super-heated water, my theory is that some kind of stimulus is needed to
          provoke the phase transition in super-heated water. If small air bubbles
          are present, or if heating is uneven, traditional boiling will be
          encouraged. However, in the microwave oven, heating is relatively
          homogenous, so apparently this stimulus is missing. Water heated on a
          stovetop is heated from the bottom. This sets up convection currents,
          which encourages mixing. This steady-state flow could favor traditional
          boiling. Furthermore, any boiling that is initiated will begin at the
          bottom, and the bubbles will propagate upward through the liquid,
          encouraging more bubbles to form throughout the liquid. In the
          microwave, boiling is equally probable to begin anywhere. The bubbles
          still propagate upwards. Thus the lower layers of the liquid are more
          likely to remain undisturbed, promoting superheating. This may partially
          explain the surface-boiling effect.

          V. Conclusion

          The event described in the email may really have happened! Furthermore,
          in a controlled situation the phenomena can be quite entertaining.

          Related Links

          Microwave Ovens -- on the University of Virgina's "How Things Work"
          page
          Unwise Microwave Oven Experiments
          Microwave Oven Radiation from the Food and Drug Administration
          Microwaving Water Urban Legend information


          Copyright © 2000 by Tobin Fricke

          Vladimir Bohinc wrote:
          >
          > Dear oldpro,
          > Nothing is being nuked in the microwawe.
          > First you have to understand the principle.
          > of course, if somebody says the word "radiation", you thnk, it is
          > atomic
          > radiation.
          > Wrong. There are all kinds of radiations. Atomic radiation is with
          > particles. Heat radiation is waves.
          > In microwave, you have a device called magnetron, that generates
          > microwaves,
          > approximately the same sort of as radar or a mobile phone. Those waves
          > cause
          > any water molecules, that they hit, to move faster, and thus generate
          > heat.
          > There is no heat radiated in the microwawe. Put in there something,
          > that
          > contains no water, and it will not get warm.
          > These microwaves are dangerous for humans, because they would heat us
          > internally. Therefore the microvave oven is shielded. But the food
          > itself
          > does not get contaminated at all.
          > Maximum heat, that you can anchieve there is 100% centigrade, because
          > water
          > can not be heated to a higher temperature.So, no high temperatures
          > there at
          > all.
          > High temperatures, that release dioxines in fat start with about
          > 170degrees,
          > which is something completely different.
          > You will never have such temperature in a microwave.
          > However, there are microwaves, that have a combination of microwave
          > heating
          > and conventional heating or barbecue.
          > This is another story.
          > Ergo, microwave itself is no danger at all.
          > I am always wondering, how come, when americans do barbecue, there are
          > always flames.This is a crime on food. They just have no idea how to
          > barbecue. Any flames immediately produce dioxines out of
          > fat.Barbecueing
          > must be done only with heat radiation.
          > =========
          > Because microwave radiation is dangerous for men, it is not advisable
          > to be
          > around radars and those places, where there are large antennas for the
          > mobile telephones.
          > Vladimir
          >
        • Nick Holcz
          ... You can stand in front of a radar dish holding a fluorescent light tube and it will light up. I wouldn t but it can be done. I am not a scientist but I
          Message 4 of 6 , Aug 4, 2003
          • 0 Attachment
            At 06:29 PM 4/08/2003 -0400, you wrote:
            >About 100 years ago, when I was in the Air Force, on a cold day we would
            >stand in front of aircraft on the ramp to get warm from their radar.
            >Just like a microwave. Some said it would make one sterile, but I
            >managed 3 kids. It is true thaat water boils at 100C (212F), but it can
            >be superheated, even in a microvave...
            >
            >Tobin Fricke <tobin@...>

            You can stand in front of a radar dish holding a fluorescent light tube and
            it will light up. I wouldn't but it can be done.
            I am not a scientist but I believe you can only superheat water under
            pressure, because the boiling point of water becomes lower the higher above
            sea level you are. For example mountain climbers on mount Everest need to
            use a pressure cooker to get water hot enough for a cup of tea.
            Nick


            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Dr. Joe Q
            The superheating of water does require pressure. The information about the boil over Vadimir sent is well known in chemistry. It is called bumping and is
            Message 5 of 6 , Aug 4, 2003
            • 0 Attachment
              The superheating of water does require pressure. The
              information about the boil over Vadimir sent is well
              known in chemistry. It is called "bumping" and is due
              to the rapid formation of water vapor (steam) and the
              dissolved gases into a bubble. Those of you who took
              chemistry courses may recall the addition of boiling
              stones, small pieces of broken ceramic (hence the
              "explosion" when a fork was placed in the microwaved
              water), to water before it was heated. The rough
              surface of the material provided a point for the
              bubbles to form. You can cause the same boil over
              just by bringing a pan of water to a boil (or even a
              simmer) and then throwing some salt into it. It will
              boil up and may even boil out of the pan.

              The requirement of a nucleus for the formation of a
              bubble is seen in sparkling wines. The lines of
              bubbles that stream upward form on the walls of the
              glass where there is dust or an irregularity.

              Dr. "Q"

              --- Nick Holcz <nickh@...> wrote:
              > At 06:29 PM 4/08/2003 -0400, you wrote:
              > >About 100 years ago, when I was in the Air Force,
              > on a cold day we would
              > >stand in front of aircraft on the ramp to get warm
              > from their radar.
              > >Just like a microwave. Some said it would make one
              > sterile, but I
              > >managed 3 kids. It is true thaat water boils at
              > 100C (212F), but it can
              > >be superheated, even in a microvave...
              > >
              > >Tobin Fricke <tobin@...>
              >
              > You can stand in front of a radar dish holding a
              > fluorescent light tube and
              > it will light up. I wouldn't but it can be done.
              > I am not a scientist but I believe you can only
              > superheat water under
              > pressure, because the boiling point of water becomes
              > lower the higher above
              > sea level you are. For example mountain climbers on
              > mount Everest need to
              > use a pressure cooker to get water hot enough for a
              > cup of tea.
              > Nick

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