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"Magyarone" Slovaks

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  • Art
    The first Slovak parish in New York was the Church of St. Elizabeth of Hungary (Slovensky Kostol Sv. Alzbety), founded in 1891 and located on East 4th Street.
    Message 1 of 3 , Dec 7, 2012
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      The first Slovak parish in New York was the Church of St. Elizabeth of Hungary (Slovensky Kostol Sv. Alzbety), founded in 1891 and located on East 4th Street. Its pastor, Father Francis Dénes, tried to cater to both pro-Hungarian ("Magyarone") and anti-Hungarian Slovaks, but neither group was pleased. After a period of unrest in which small incidences could take on cosmic dimensions, Archbishop Corrigan allowed the Slovak nationalists to withdraw from the parish and organize the Church of St. John Nepomucene (Slovensky Kostol Sv. Jana Nepomuckeho) in a former synagogue a few doors away on the same street.

      This explains why my Mother was baptised and confirmed at St Elizabeth's. I never heard her refer to herself or anyone in her family as other than "Hungarians" however over the years have found family documents showing her parents both emigrated in 1905 from Eperes/Presov in what is now Slovakia and all their documents including Grandpa's military pass show they were Slovaks and he was even Greek Catholic (Gorog Kath)on school docs. I heard my Mother speaking some Slovak later in life but she said she was speaking "hungarian" I knew better having been to Czech at Defense Language Institute in the Army and already working with immigrants in Germany. Clearly there was some ethnic "brainwashing" going on back then as I see in this history of their church.

      Thank God that the Slovaks finally came into a national identity and country of their own free of the Magyars and Czechs.
    • James Dubelko
      Interesting story of the development of separate Hungarian and Slovak Roman Catholic Churches in New York. There was a very similar development in Cleveland
      Message 2 of 3 , Dec 7, 2012
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        Interesting story of the development of separate Hungarian and Slovak Roman
        Catholic Churches in New York. There was a very similar development in
        Cleveland in the same period--only it worked out the other way. St.
        Ladislas was founded in around 1888 on Cleveland's east side as a Roman
        Catholic parish for Hungarians and Slovaks. Before long both groups were
        squabbling over which should have the better time for the mass said in its
        native language. The dispute was submitted to the bishop of Cleveland who
        negotiated an agreement which led to the Hungarians leaving St. Ladislas
        and founding a new Roman Catholic parish a few blocks away. The new church
        the Hungarians in Cleveland built was called St. Elizabeth of Hungary
        Church and it claims to be the oldest Hungarian Roman Catholic church in
        America. Cleveland Historical--an app created by the Center for Public
        History and Digital Humanities (CPHDH) at Cleveland State University (I
        work there as a graduate assistant), has a story that mentions the dispute
        that led to the new Hungarian church:

        http://clevelandhistorical.org/items/show/203

        Jim Dubelko

        On Fri, Dec 7, 2012 at 3:53 PM, Art <KD7EER@...> wrote:

        > **
        >
        >
        > The first Slovak parish in New York was the Church of St. Elizabeth of
        > Hungary (Slovensky Kostol Sv. Alzbety), founded in 1891 and located on East
        > 4th Street. Its pastor, Father Francis D�nes, tried to cater to both
        > pro-Hungarian ("Magyarone") and anti-Hungarian Slovaks, but neither group
        > was pleased. After a period of unrest in which small incidences could take
        > on cosmic dimensions, Archbishop Corrigan allowed the Slovak nationalists
        > to withdraw from the parish and organize the Church of St. John Nepomucene
        > (Slovensky Kostol Sv. Jana Nepomuckeho) in a former synagogue a few doors
        > away on the same street.
        >
        > This explains why my Mother was baptised and confirmed at St Elizabeth's.
        > I never heard her refer to herself or anyone in her family as other than
        > "Hungarians" however over the years have found family documents showing her
        > parents both emigrated in 1905 from Eperes/Presov in what is now Slovakia
        > and all their documents including Grandpa's military pass show they were
        > Slovaks and he was even Greek Catholic (Gorog Kath)on school docs. I heard
        > my Mother speaking some Slovak later in life but she said she was speaking
        > "hungarian" I knew better having been to Czech at Defense Language
        > Institute in the Army and already working with immigrants in Germany.
        > Clearly there was some ethnic "brainwashing" going on back then as I see in
        > this history of their church.
        >
        > Thank God that the Slovaks finally came into a national identity and
        > country of their own free of the Magyars and Czechs.
        >
        >
        >



        --
        Jim Dubelko
        6051 Sandpiper Lane
        North Olmsted, OH 44070
        *cell: *440-829-8801
        *home:* 440-734-7858


        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • William C. Wormuth
        This is a very interesting subject and extremely important in researching family records.  My own family history shows no prejudice toward Magyar people.  In
        Message 3 of 3 , Dec 7, 2012
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          This is a very interesting subject and extremely important in researching family records.  My own family history shows no prejudice toward Magyar people.  In the western Zahorie region, most preferred to speak German, even though they were required to learn Hungarian.  a bit farther East, the population spoke Hungarian and some could speak German.

          Since most of my Slovak experience is in smaller place here, I was never aware of the History mentioned here of nationality splits in churches.

          Thanks for the info.

          S Panem Bohom,

          Vilo


          I have been helping people with genealogy for several years and very often read records where many listed themselves as Hungarian or Austrian but the majority, also Slovak.  The minority who listed themselves as Hungarian/Hungarian, caused me to wonder why and now I understand.

          They apparently accepted the directives of the Hungarians that they were "Hungarian".  I have always been proud that our Slovak people maintained their nationality and culture through all the invasions and especially the Magyar rule of over 1,000 years.



          ________________________________
          From: James Dubelko <jdubelko@...>
          To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Friday, December 7, 2012 5:07 PM
          Subject: Re: [Slovak-World] "Magyarone" Slovaks

          Interesting story of the development of separate Hungarian and Slovak Roman
          Catholic Churches in New York.  There was a very similar development in
          Cleveland in the same period--only it worked out the other way.  St.
          Ladislas was founded in around 1888 on Cleveland's east side as a Roman
          Catholic parish for Hungarians and Slovaks. Before long both groups were
          squabbling over which should have the better time for the mass said in its
          native language.  The dispute was submitted to the bishop of Cleveland who
          negotiated an agreement which led to the Hungarians leaving St. Ladislas
          and founding a new Roman Catholic parish a few blocks away.  The new church
          the Hungarians in Cleveland built was called St. Elizabeth of Hungary
          Church and it claims to be the oldest Hungarian Roman Catholic church in
          America.  Cleveland Historical--an app created by the Center for Public
          History and Digital Humanities (CPHDH) at Cleveland State University (I
          work there as a graduate assistant), has a story that mentions the dispute
          that led to the new Hungarian church:

          http://clevelandhistorical.org/items/show/203

          Jim Dubelko

          On Fri, Dec 7, 2012 at 3:53 PM, Art <KD7EER@...> wrote:

          > **
          >
          >
          > The first Slovak parish in New York was the Church of St. Elizabeth of
          > Hungary (Slovensky Kostol Sv. Alzbety), founded in 1891 and located on East
          > 4th Street. Its pastor, Father Francis Dénes, tried to cater to both
          > pro-Hungarian ("Magyarone") and anti-Hungarian Slovaks, but neither group
          > was pleased. After a period of unrest in which small incidences could take
          > on cosmic dimensions, Archbishop Corrigan allowed the Slovak nationalists
          > to withdraw from the parish and organize the Church of St. John Nepomucene
          > (Slovensky Kostol Sv. Jana Nepomuckeho) in a former synagogue a few doors
          > away on the same street.
          >
          > This explains why my Mother was baptised and confirmed at St Elizabeth's.
          > I never heard her refer to herself or anyone in her family as other than
          > "Hungarians" however over the years have found family documents showing her
          > parents both emigrated in 1905 from Eperes/Presov in what is now Slovakia
          > and all their documents including Grandpa's military pass show they were
          > Slovaks and he was even Greek Catholic (Gorog Kath)on school docs. I heard
          > my Mother speaking some Slovak later in life but she said she was speaking
          > "hungarian" I knew better having been to Czech at Defense Language
          > Institute in the Army and already working with immigrants in Germany.
          > Clearly there was some ethnic "brainwashing" going on back then as I see in
          > this history of their church.
          >
          > Thank God that the Slovaks finally came into a national identity and
          > country of their own free of the Magyars and Czechs.
          >

          >



          --
          Jim Dubelko
          6051 Sandpiper Lane
          North Olmsted, OH  44070
          *cell: *440-829-8801
          *home:* 440-734-7858


          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



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