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Best countries for business

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  • votrubam
    Forbes has published its list of the best countries for business. It placed Slovakia at #33, the U.S. is #10. Here s Central Europe: 14 Switzerland 21
    Message 1 of 27 , Oct 6, 2011
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      Forbes has published its list of the best countries for business. It placed Slovakia at #33, the U.S. is #10. Here's Central Europe:

      14 Switzerland
      21 Germany
      29 Austria
      33 Slovakia
      38 Poland
      39 Czech R.
      43 Hungary

      International ease-of-doing-business rankings vary a lot among the various agencies that carry them out.


      Martin
    • allanstevo
      Martin, Thank you for the heads up on that. For people interested in world affairs, that Forbes survey does a good job pointing to some positives and
      Message 2 of 27 , Oct 8, 2011
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        Martin,
        Thank you for the heads up on that. For people interested in world affairs, that Forbes survey does a good job pointing to some positives and negatives in each country.

        The list of every country can be found here:
        http://www.forbes.com/lists/2011/6/best-countries-11_rank.html


        I wonder if Slovakia will always be considered the little brother. In the first sentence of the summary on Slovakia, the Czech Republic is mentioned: "Slovakia has made significant economic reforms since its separation from the Czech Republic in 1993."

        The Slovak summary can be found at:

        http://www.forbes.com/lists/2011/6/best-countries-11_Slovakia_CHI032.html


        --- In Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com, "votrubam" <votrubam@...> wrote:
        >
        > Forbes has published its list of the best countries for business. It placed Slovakia at #33, the U.S. is #10. Here's Central Europe:
        >
        > 14 Switzerland
        > 21 Germany
        > 29 Austria
        > 33 Slovakia
        > 38 Poland
        > 39 Czech R.
        > 43 Hungary
        >
        > International ease-of-doing-business rankings vary a lot among the various agencies that carry them out.
        >
        >
        > Martin
        >
      • votrubam
        ... The Slovaks make a heavy contribution to that. They are equally obsessed with comparing themselves to the Czechs and no one else around. Slovak reports
        Message 3 of 27 , Oct 9, 2011
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          > I wonder if Slovakia will always be considered the little
          > brother. In the first sentence of the summary on Slovakia,
          > the Czech Republic is mentioned

          The Slovaks make a heavy contribution to that. They are equally obsessed with comparing themselves to the Czechs and no one else around. Slovak reports on this ranking, too, only mentioned where the Czech R. stood. Slovakia's doing pretty well by comparison to its post-communist neighbors, e.g., see this map:

          <http://www.pitt.edu/~votruba/qsonhist/regionalwealthcentraleurope.html>

          But to no avail. Comparing themselves to the Czech R., the Slovaks' partner in a single body politic for merely 70 years, seems so much more important to the Slovaks than comparing themselves to, e.g., Hungary or Croatia, their partners in the same kingdom for 800+ years. It feeds the Slovaks' habit of whining about their lots.


          Martin
        • Ben Sorensen
          I know that Frantisek Palacky is not Slovak, but in that I am delving into Charles IV, I am betting his work will be very helpful; unfortunately, I cannot find
          Message 4 of 27 , Oct 9, 2011
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            I know that Frantisek Palacky is not Slovak, but in that I am delving into Charles IV, I am betting his work will be very helpful; unfortunately, I cannot find it in English, Czech, or Slovak. :-( Any ideas from anyone where I may find his work is most appreciated. :-)

            Ben

            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • votrubam
            ... He spent a lot of his formative years in Slovakia, from around the age of 10 till 24. He graduated from the Lutheran college in Bratislava. ... I wouldn t
            Message 5 of 27 , Oct 9, 2011
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              > I know that Frantisek Palacky is not Slovak

              He spent a lot of his formative years in Slovakia, from around the age of 10 till 24. He graduated from the Lutheran college in Bratislava.

              > Charles IV, I am betting his work will be very helpful

              I wouldn't hold my breath given the difference between what's known about history today and what they knew then, but here it is:

              <http://tinyurl.com/3pt3q3u>


              Martin
            • Ben Sorensen
              Thank you very much, Martin! I am startled by how little is available on Charles IV.  I have his autobiography, and another work on his travels to France (in
              Message 6 of 27 , Oct 10, 2011
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                Thank you very much, Martin!

                I am startled by how little is available on Charles IV.  I have his autobiography, and another work on his travels to France (in Czech), but aside from some encyclopedic entries and a disparaging blurb by Edward Gibbon, there really is not much on this guy that I am finding.  Even JSTOR is about dry... So much for the author of the Golden Bull and the "Father of the Czech Lands!" Karelstein is a nice castle, and there are some nice statues of him.  St. Vitus Cathedral is also a good memorial to that man, but somewhere you would think that SOMETHING more would be written about him!

                Ben


                ________________________________
                From: votrubam <votrubam@...>
                To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com
                Sent: Monday, October 10, 2011 1:24 AM
                Subject: [Slovak-World] Re: Frantisek Palacky


                 
                > I know that Frantisek Palacky is not Slovak

                He spent a lot of his formative years in Slovakia, from around the age of 10 till 24. He graduated from the Lutheran college in Bratislava.

                > Charles IV, I am betting his work will be very helpful

                I wouldn't hold my breath given the difference between what's known about history today and what they knew then, but here it is:

                <http://tinyurl.com/3pt3q3u>

                Martin




                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Lubos Brieda
                I second this. There is a number of advertisements all over Slovakia along the lines of [Some XYZ Slovak product], so good even Czechs like it . It s bit
                Message 7 of 27 , Oct 10, 2011
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                  I second this. There is a number of advertisements all over Slovakia along the lines of "[Some XYZ Slovak product], so good even Czechs like it". It's bit unfortunate.

                   
                  -- Lubos Brieda --

                  Scientific computing: www.particleincell.com
                  Slovak recipes: www.slovakcooking.com 


                  ________________________________
                  From: votrubam <votrubam@...>
                  To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com
                  Sent: Sunday, October 9, 2011 3:17 AM
                  Subject: [Slovak-World] Re: Best countries for business

                  > I wonder if Slovakia will always be considered the little
                  > brother.  In the first sentence of the summary on Slovakia,
                  > the Czech Republic is mentioned

                  The Slovaks make a heavy contribution to that.  They are equally obsessed with comparing themselves to the Czechs and no one else around.  Slovak reports on this ranking, too, only mentioned where the Czech R. stood.  Slovakia's doing pretty well by comparison to its post-communist neighbors, e.g., see this map:

                  <http://www.pitt.edu/~votruba/qsonhist/regionalwealthcentraleurope.html>

                  But to no avail.  Comparing themselves to the Czech R., the Slovaks' partner in a single body politic for merely 70 years, seems so much more important to the Slovaks than comparing themselves to, e.g., Hungary or Croatia, their partners in the same kingdom for 800+ years.  It feeds the Slovaks' habit of whining about their lots.


                  Martin




                  ------------------------------------

                  Yahoo! Groups Links



                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • Nemam Meno
                  Frantisek Palacky was not Slovak?  Since he pretty much died 45 years before the first Czechoslovak republic was established, you can hardly call him by his
                  Message 8 of 27 , Oct 10, 2011
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                    Frantisek Palacky was not Slovak?  Since he pretty much died 45 years before the first Czechoslovak republic was established, you can hardly call him by his citizenship. I am sure, however, that the Magyars did not name him "Frantisek."

                    If you want to know anything about him, all you have to do is contact nuns at the Gymnazium Frantiska Palackeho in Bratislava - you will be surprised by your "non-Slovak" comment.

                    Ta-ta, F

                    --- On Mon, 10/10/11, Ben Sorensen <cerrunos1@...> wrote:

                    From: Ben Sorensen <cerrunos1@...>
                    Subject: Re: [Slovak-World] Re: Frantisek Palacky
                    To: "Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com" <Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com>
                    Date: Monday, October 10, 2011, 2:24 PM
















                     









                    Thank you very much, Martin!



                    I am startled by how little is available on Charles IV.  I have his autobiography, and another work on his travels to France (in Czech), but aside from some encyclopedic entries and a disparaging blurb by Edward Gibbon, there really is not much on this guy that I am finding.  Even JSTOR is about dry... So much for the author of the Golden Bull and the "Father of the Czech Lands!" Karelstein is a nice castle, and there are some nice statues of him.  St. Vitus Cathedral is also a good memorial to that man, but somewhere you would think that SOMETHING more would be written about him!



                    Ben



                    ________________________________

                    From: votrubam <votrubam@...>

                    To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com

                    Sent: Monday, October 10, 2011 1:24 AM

                    Subject: [Slovak-World] Re: Frantisek Palacky



                     

                    > I know that Frantisek Palacky is not Slovak



                    He spent a lot of his formative years in Slovakia, from around the age of 10 till 24. He graduated from the Lutheran college in Bratislava.



                    > Charles IV, I am betting his work will be very helpful



                    I wouldn't hold my breath given the difference between what's known about history today and what they knew then, but here it is:



                    <http://tinyurl.com/3pt3q3u>



                    Martin



                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



























                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • votrubam
                    ... What citizenship? Palacky was a subject of the Habsburg Monarchy, meaning -- Ben should have called Palacky a Habsburg ? Ben spoke of his ethnicity, not
                    Message 9 of 27 , Oct 10, 2011
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                      > Frantisek Palacky was not Slovak?  Since he pretty much
                      > died 45 years before the first Czechoslovak republic was
                      > established, you can hardly call him by his citizenship.

                      What citizenship? Palacky was a subject of the Habsburg Monarchy, meaning -- Ben should have called Palacky a "Habsburg"?

                      Ben spoke of his ethnicity, not citizenship, and was perfectly correct to say Palacky was not Slovak. Palacky was Moravian (Czech). His Moravian parents, from the tiny Lutheran minority there, sent him to study in Slovakia, because there were no Lutheran high schools and colleges in the Czech lands. Palacky returned to the Czech lands after graduation.


                      Martin
                    • Karen
                      ... I find this rather shocking. Personally, a slogan like this would steer me right towards their competitor. To my grandmother s generation, it was a great
                      Message 10 of 27 , Oct 10, 2011
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                        --- In Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com, Lubos Brieda <lbrieda@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > I second this. There is a number of advertisements all over Slovakia along the lines of "[Some XYZ Slovak product], so good even Czechs like it". It's bit unfortunate.
                        >


                        I find this rather shocking. Personally, a slogan like this would steer me right towards their competitor. To my grandmother's generation, it was a great insult to be called Czech but I always thought of it like if someone suddenly forced me and my neighbor to live in the same house. Our differences would certainly cause tension. I'm second generation American so clearly my perspective is different but I did discuss this subject with my cousins in Bratislava not too long ago. To them, the animosity is largely a thing of the past. Perhaps it's a regional thing and more alive in rural areas.
                      • votrubam
                        ... There wasn t much animosity to begin with, that was more common among some Slovak-Americans than among the Slovaks in Slovakia. Shortly before the split of
                        Message 11 of 27 , Oct 10, 2011
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                          > To them, the animosity is largely a thing of the past.
                          > Perhaps it's a regional thing and more alive in rural areas.

                          There wasn't much animosity to begin with, that was more common among some Slovak-Americans than among the Slovaks in Slovakia.

                          Shortly before the split of Czecho-Slovakia, for instance, almost exactly the same percentage of both the Slovaks and Czechs were for the separation (41 and 46, respectively) and against it (46 and 45).

                          Annual opinion polls in the Czech Republic asking people about their attitudes to other nations always placed the Slovaks at the top as the Czechs' most favored nation in the world, and the about half a dozen similar polls in Slovakia have shown exactly the same.

                          In one of the polls in Slovakia that happened to also ask about "foreign Slovaks" (a concept that includes Slovak-Americans), 82 percent Slovaks said they liked the Czechs, 3 percent said they disliked them, the rest didn't care either way, while the respective percentages for "foreign Slovaks" were 70 and 5.

                          The Slovak--Czech attitudes are similar to the American--Canadian attitudes. There are jokes, etc., but there is hardly any real animosity between them, quite the contrary -- people feel relatively close to each other.


                          Martin
                        • William C. Wormuth
                          Martin, I agree with you.  I believe the problem was purely political.   Following the fall of communism, the Czech government used funds from the west ,
                          Message 12 of 27 , Oct 10, 2011
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                            Martin,


                            I agree with you.  I believe the problem was purely political.  

                            Following the fall of communism, the Czech government used funds from the "west", to rebuild their (Bohemian), portion of the businesses and infrastructure and VERY LITTLE for Moravia or Slovakia.

                            As I remember the government paid no attention to the complaints until just before the split.


                            I can still remember going to Brno and seeing how run-down the city was as well as Bratislava and Kos~ice.


                            I have never had much contact with Czech people, except 4 "run-aways", I sponsored and cared for Before the fall of communism.


                            Moravians, with whom I had considerable contact with always spoke of Slovaks as their brothers.

                            Martin, some of the above paragraph, Following...., might be incorrect and corrections would be appreciated.

                            Z Bohom,

                            Vilo



                            ________________________________
                            From: votrubam <votrubam@...>
                            To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com
                            Sent: Monday, October 10, 2011 2:55 PM
                            Subject: [Slovak-World] Re: Best countries for business


                             
                            > To them, the animosity is largely a thing of the past.
                            > Perhaps it's a regional thing and more alive in rural areas.

                            There wasn't much animosity to begin with, that was more common among some Slovak-Americans than among the Slovaks in Slovakia.

                            Shortly before the split of Czecho-Slovakia, for instance, almost exactly the same percentage of both the Slovaks and Czechs were for the separation (41 and 46, respectively) and against it (46 and 45).

                            Annual opinion polls in the Czech Republic asking people about their attitudes to other nations always placed the Slovaks at the top as the Czechs' most favored nation in the world, and the about half a dozen similar polls in Slovakia have shown exactly the same.

                            In one of the polls in Slovakia that happened to also ask about "foreign Slovaks" (a concept that includes Slovak-Americans), 82 percent Slovaks said they liked the Czechs, 3 percent said they disliked them, the rest didn't care either way, while the respective percentages for "foreign Slovaks" were 70 and 5.

                            The Slovak--Czech attitudes are similar to the American--Canadian attitudes. There are jokes, etc., but there is hardly any real animosity between them, quite the contrary -- people feel relatively close to each other.

                            Martin




                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          • votrubam
                            ... Only because you ask, Vilko, and comments rather than corrections. ... There wasn t too much time for that given that Czecho-Slovakia split barely 3 years
                            Message 13 of 27 , Oct 10, 2011
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                              > incorrect and corrections would be appreciated.

                              Only because you ask, Vilko, and comments rather than corrections.


                              > Following the fall of communism, the Czech government used
                              > funds from the "west", to rebuild their (Bohemian), portion
                              > of the businesses and infrastructure and VERY LITTLE for
                              > Moravia or Slovakia.

                              There wasn't too much time for that given that Czecho-Slovakia split barely 3 years after the collapse of communism, and it wasn't so much using Western funds as Western investment going mainly to Prague as a result of the Western investors' own decisions.

                              Regardless, I agree with the essence of what you say. The main thing is that it didn't used to be so much "the Czechs against everyone else." It was Pragocentrism -- of which Bratislavacentrism has been a carbon copy since the Slovak and Czech separation. Look at the distribution of per-capita purchasing power in Slovakia 20 years after the collapse of communism and 18 years after the separation:

                              <http://www.pitt.edu/~votruba/qsonhist/regionalwealthslovakia.html>


                              There's no difference between what Prague was doing to Czecho-Slovakia and what Bratislava has been doing to Slovakia. Still practically no freeways in eastern Slovakia, no stimulus for easy fast-internet access all over the country as a key infrastructure element of modern wealth, no... no... you name it, it's in Bratislava and the environs, but not "out there."

                              So, rather than phrasing the past situation as the doings of the "Czechs" in general, what we saw and see is the self-centerdness of the capitals, be it Czech Prague then or Slovak Bratislava now, and their substantial ignorance of the countries they govern.


                              Martin
                            • Karen
                              Thank you, Martin and Vilo, for your takes on the situation. I grew up in NY in an Italian community and (apart from a visit to Slovakia) have actually only
                              Message 14 of 27 , Oct 10, 2011
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                                Thank you, Martin and Vilo, for your takes on the situation. I grew up in NY in an Italian community and (apart from a visit to Slovakia) have actually only met two Slovaks that I was not related to. Sadly, over the years many of our family traditions slipped away and I'd like to rediscover them to pass on to the next generation. Far too often when I say 'Slovak' to otherwise educated people, I get either a blank stare or asked if that means from Yugoslavia. I'm very happy to have found this group! -Karen
                              • Ben Sorensen
                                Probably true that the Magyars did not name him Frantisek, but finding the Gymnazium Frantiska Palackeho does not make him any more Slovak than finding
                                Message 15 of 27 , Oct 10, 2011
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                                  Probably true that the Magyars did not name him "Frantisek," but finding the Gymnazium Frantiska Palackeho does not make him any more Slovak than finding "Aviende Presidente Masaryk" make Tomas Masaryk a Mexican.  

                                  My thanks to Martin for the leads, and the book on Google.  I am making great headway into this semester; but I am ready for a break, methinks. :-)  Oh, what I would not give for a better Czech and Slovak library nearby!
                                  Ben 


                                  ________________________________
                                  From: Nemam Meno <menonemam@...>
                                  To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com
                                  Sent: Monday, October 10, 2011 11:21 AM
                                  Subject: Re: [Slovak-World] Re: Frantisek Palacky


                                   
                                  Frantisek Palacky was not Slovak?  Since he pretty much died 45 years before the first Czechoslovak republic was established, you can hardly call him by his citizenship. I am sure, however, that the Magyars did not name him "Frantisek."

                                  If you want to know anything about him, all you have to do is contact nuns at the Gymnazium Frantiska Palackeho in Bratislava - you will be surprised by your "non-Slovak" comment.

                                  Ta-ta, F

                                  --- On Mon, 10/10/11, Ben Sorensen <cerrunos1@...> wrote:

                                  From: Ben Sorensen <cerrunos1@...>
                                  Subject: Re: [Slovak-World] Re: Frantisek Palacky
                                  To: "Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com" <Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com>
                                  Date: Monday, October 10, 2011, 2:24 PM

                                   

                                  Thank you very much, Martin!

                                  I am startled by how little is available on Charles IV.  I have his autobiography, and another work on his travels to France (in Czech), but aside from some encyclopedic entries and a disparaging blurb by Edward Gibbon, there really is not much on this guy that I am finding.  Even JSTOR is about dry... So much for the author of the Golden Bull and the "Father of the Czech Lands!" Karelstein is a nice castle, and there are some nice statues of him.  St. Vitus Cathedral is also a good memorial to that man, but somewhere you would think that SOMETHING more would be written about him!

                                  Ben

                                  ________________________________

                                  From: votrubam <votrubam@...>

                                  To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com

                                  Sent: Monday, October 10, 2011 1:24 AM

                                  Subject: [Slovak-World] Re: Frantisek Palacky

                                   

                                  > I know that Frantisek Palacky is not Slovak

                                  He spent a lot of his formative years in Slovakia, from around the age of 10 till 24. He graduated from the Lutheran college in Bratislava.

                                  > Charles IV, I am betting his work will be very helpful

                                  I wouldn't hold my breath given the difference between what's known about history today and what they knew then, but here it is:

                                  <http://tinyurl.com/3pt3q3u>

                                  Martin

                                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




                                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                • William C. Wormuth
                                  His name would have been Ferenc.  http://www.57osobnosti.cz/37-en ________________________________ From: Ben Sorensen To:
                                  Message 16 of 27 , Oct 10, 2011
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                                    His name would have been Ferenc. 


                                    http://www.57osobnosti.cz/37-en



                                    ________________________________
                                    From: Ben Sorensen <cerrunos1@...>
                                    To: "Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com" <Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com>
                                    Sent: Monday, October 10, 2011 11:48 PM
                                    Subject: Re: [Slovak-World] Re: Frantisek Palacky


                                     
                                    Probably true that the Magyars did not name him "Frantisek," but finding the Gymnazium Frantiska Palackeho does not make him any more Slovak than finding "Aviende Presidente Masaryk" make Tomas Masaryk a Mexican.  

                                    My thanks to Martin for the leads, and the book on Google.  I am making great headway into this semester; but I am ready for a break, methinks. :-)  Oh, what I would not give for a better Czech and Slovak library nearby!
                                    Ben 

                                    ________________________________
                                    From: Nemam Meno <menonemam@...>
                                    To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com
                                    Sent: Monday, October 10, 2011 11:21 AM
                                    Subject: Re: [Slovak-World] Re: Frantisek Palacky

                                     
                                    Frantisek Palacky was not Slovak?  Since he pretty much died 45 years before the first Czechoslovak republic was established, you can hardly call him by his citizenship. I am sure, however, that the Magyars did not name him "Frantisek."

                                    If you want to know anything about him, all you have to do is contact nuns at the Gymnazium Frantiska Palackeho in Bratislava - you will be surprised by your "non-Slovak" comment.

                                    Ta-ta, F

                                    --- On Mon, 10/10/11, Ben Sorensen <cerrunos1@...> wrote:

                                    From: Ben Sorensen <cerrunos1@...>
                                    Subject: Re: [Slovak-World] Re: Frantisek Palacky
                                    To: "Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com" <Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com>
                                    Date: Monday, October 10, 2011, 2:24 PM

                                     

                                    Thank you very much, Martin!

                                    I am startled by how little is available on Charles IV.  I have his autobiography, and another work on his travels to France (in Czech), but aside from some encyclopedic entries and a disparaging blurb by Edward Gibbon, there really is not much on this guy that I am finding.  Even JSTOR is about dry... So much for the author of the Golden Bull and the "Father of the Czech Lands!" Karelstein is a nice castle, and there are some nice statues of him.  St. Vitus Cathedral is also a good memorial to that man, but somewhere you would think that SOMETHING more would be written about him!

                                    Ben

                                    ________________________________

                                    From: votrubam <votrubam@...>

                                    To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com

                                    Sent: Monday, October 10, 2011 1:24 AM

                                    Subject: [Slovak-World] Re: Frantisek Palacky

                                     

                                    > I know that Frantisek Palacky is not Slovak

                                    He spent a lot of his formative years in Slovakia, from around the age of 10 till 24. He graduated from the Lutheran college in Bratislava.

                                    > Charles IV, I am betting his work will be very helpful

                                    I wouldn't hold my breath given the difference between what's known about history today and what they knew then, but here it is:

                                    <http://tinyurl.com/3pt3q3u>

                                    Martin

                                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




                                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  • Nemam Meno
                                    ... From: votrubam Subject: [Slovak-World] Re: Frantisek Palacky To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, October 10, 2011, 4:27 PM
                                    Message 17 of 27 , Oct 11, 2011
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                                      .... his ethnicity?  I am glad you don't go as far as suggesting that he was a "gypsy." Lutheran?  You mean evangelical? Lutheran high schools/ colleges? What the fooock? First, it would be a "lyceum," not a high school or college (even in the contemporary times your "high school" is a functional equivalent of "zakladna skola" and your "college" is nothing more but "ucnovka." Secondly, FP became a student of Jozef Dobrovskeho in Prague and worked for the Stenberg family. Don't even suggest anything Lutheran. That's  a terms used in the U.S. where all Jews hid and concealed their true heritage. By the way, Morava, even by today's standard, is not your "Czech land."

                                      --- On Mon, 10/10/11, votrubam <votrubam@...> wrote:

                                      From: votrubam <votrubam@...>
                                      Subject: [Slovak-World] Re: Frantisek Palacky
                                      To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com
                                      Date: Monday, October 10, 2011, 4:27 PM
















                                       









                                      > Frantisek Palacky was not Slovak?  Since he pretty much

                                      > died 45 years before the first Czechoslovak republic was

                                      > established, you can hardly call him by his citizenship.



                                      What citizenship? Palacky was a subject of the Habsburg Monarchy, meaning -- Ben should have called Palacky a "Habsburg"?



                                      Ben spoke of his ethnicity, not citizenship, and was perfectly correct to say Palacky was not Slovak. Palacky was Moravian (Czech). His Moravian parents, from the tiny Lutheran minority there, sent him to study in Slovakia, because there were no Lutheran high schools and colleges in the Czech lands. Palacky returned to the Czech lands after graduation.



                                      Martin



























                                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                    • Nemam Meno
                                      .. you missed the point... it s not about finding FP s gymanzium; rather that it was the first one named after him with the strongest Catholic community and an
                                      Message 18 of 27 , Oct 11, 2011
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                                        .. you missed the point... it's not about finding FP's gymanzium; rather that it was the first one named after him with the strongest Catholic community and an extensive library on him.... your Masaryk comment is nothing but a faulty analogy.. quite frequently found in the U.S. community

                                        --- On Tue, 10/11/11, Ben Sorensen <cerrunos1@...> wrote:

                                        From: Ben Sorensen <cerrunos1@...>
                                        Subject: Re: [Slovak-World] Re: Frantisek Palacky
                                        To: "Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com" <Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com>
                                        Date: Tuesday, October 11, 2011, 3:48 AM
















                                         









                                        Probably true that the Magyars did not name him "Frantisek," but finding the Gymnazium Frantiska Palackeho does not make him any more Slovak than finding "Aviende Presidente Masaryk" make Tomas Masaryk a Mexican.  



                                        My thanks to Martin for the leads, and the book on Google.  I am making great headway into this semester; but I am ready for a break, methinks. :-)  Oh, what I would not give for a better Czech and Slovak library nearby!

                                        Ben 



                                        ________________________________

                                        From: Nemam Meno <menonemam@...>

                                        To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com

                                        Sent: Monday, October 10, 2011 11:21 AM

                                        Subject: Re: [Slovak-World] Re: Frantisek Palacky



                                         

                                        Frantisek Palacky was not Slovak?  Since he pretty much died 45 years before the first Czechoslovak republic was established, you can hardly call him by his citizenship. I am sure, however, that the Magyars did not name him "Frantisek."



                                        If you want to know anything about him, all you have to do is contact nuns at the Gymnazium Frantiska Palackeho in Bratislava - you will be surprised by your "non-Slovak" comment.



                                        Ta-ta, F



                                        --- On Mon, 10/10/11, Ben Sorensen <cerrunos1@...> wrote:



                                        From: Ben Sorensen <cerrunos1@...>

                                        Subject: Re: [Slovak-World] Re: Frantisek Palacky

                                        To: "Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com" <Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com>

                                        Date: Monday, October 10, 2011, 2:24 PM



                                         



                                        Thank you very much, Martin!



                                        I am startled by how little is available on Charles IV.  I have his autobiography, and another work on his travels to France (in Czech), but aside from some encyclopedic entries and a disparaging blurb by Edward Gibbon, there really is not much on this guy that I am finding.  Even JSTOR is about dry... So much for the author of the Golden Bull and the "Father of the Czech Lands!" Karelstein is a nice castle, and there are some nice statues of him.  St. Vitus Cathedral is also a good memorial to that man, but somewhere you would think that SOMETHING more would be written about him!



                                        Ben



                                        ________________________________



                                        From: votrubam <votrubam@...>



                                        To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com



                                        Sent: Monday, October 10, 2011 1:24 AM



                                        Subject: [Slovak-World] Re: Frantisek Palacky



                                         



                                        > I know that Frantisek Palacky is not Slovak



                                        He spent a lot of his formative years in Slovakia, from around the age of 10 till 24. He graduated from the Lutheran college in Bratislava.



                                        > Charles IV, I am betting his work will be very helpful



                                        I wouldn't hold my breath given the difference between what's known about history today and what they knew then, but here it is:



                                        <http://tinyurl.com/3pt3q3u>



                                        Martin



                                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



                                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



                                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



























                                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                      • Ben Sorensen
                                        Ok, so his passages about Hus and his followers were certainly not written by a Catholic; his writings have been considered uncatholic, and Palacky s family
                                        Message 19 of 27 , Oct 11, 2011
                                        • 0 Attachment
                                          Ok, so his passages about Hus and his followers were certainly not written by a Catholic; his writings have been considered "uncatholic," and Palacky's family were overwhelmingly Lutherans.  But, since you want him to be a Catholic Slovak so badly, then I guess I will concede, just like Galileo conceded his point: obviously the facts point elsewhere, but I will agree with you.  Palacky still wrote his history in Czech, was born to a Moravian Lutheran family, and died in Prague.  

                                          I write in Slovak and English, am Orthodox, and have a Danish and Scottish family, but for you I will be a Zoroastrian Turk. Or a Baptist Croat.  Or is this just another faulty American analogy?  I am glad that I know enough laudable Slovaks that I do not have to draw the conclusions that all Slovaks in the American diaspora are parochial in their understanding of culture and history, and just outright mean, grumpy, and irrationally condescending,  though we often see examples of THESE particular qualities on this list (you get three guesses from whom).  

                                          I believe I will lend credence to the man who has single-handedly kept Pitt at the top of the list in Slavic language departments, is widely published in academia, and has dedicated his life to the pursuit of understanding, teaching, and disseminating facts about Slovak culture, economy, and language as well as immigration, the Slovak diaspora in North America, and dialects extant there over someone who has yet to identify himself/herself.  

                                          Ben


                                          ________________________________
                                          From: Nemam Meno <menonemam@...>
                                          To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com
                                          Sent: Tuesday, October 11, 2011 6:24 AM
                                          Subject: Re: [Slovak-World] Re: Frantisek Palacky


                                           
                                          .. you missed the point... it's not about finding FP's gymanzium; rather that it was the first one named after him with the strongest Catholic community and an extensive library on him.... your Masaryk comment is nothing but a faulty analogy.. quite frequently found in the U.S. community

                                          --- On Tue, 10/11/11, Ben Sorensen <cerrunos1@...> wrote:

                                          From: Ben Sorensen <cerrunos1@...>
                                          Subject: Re: [Slovak-World] Re: Frantisek Palacky
                                          To: "Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com" <Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com>
                                          Date: Tuesday, October 11, 2011, 3:48 AM

                                           

                                          Probably true that the Magyars did not name him "Frantisek," but finding the Gymnazium Frantiska Palackeho does not make him any more Slovak than finding "Aviende Presidente Masaryk" make Tomas Masaryk a Mexican.  

                                          My thanks to Martin for the leads, and the book on Google.  I am making great headway into this semester; but I am ready for a break, methinks. :-)  Oh, what I would not give for a better Czech and Slovak library nearby!

                                          Ben 

                                          ________________________________

                                          From: Nemam Meno <menonemam@...>

                                          To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com

                                          Sent: Monday, October 10, 2011 11:21 AM

                                          Subject: Re: [Slovak-World] Re: Frantisek Palacky

                                           

                                          Frantisek Palacky was not Slovak?  Since he pretty much died 45 years before the first Czechoslovak republic was established, you can hardly call him by his citizenship. I am sure, however, that the Magyars did not name him "Frantisek."

                                          If you want to know anything about him, all you have to do is contact nuns at the Gymnazium Frantiska Palackeho in Bratislava - you will be surprised by your "non-Slovak" comment.

                                          Ta-ta, F

                                          --- On Mon, 10/10/11, Ben Sorensen <cerrunos1@...> wrote:

                                          From: Ben Sorensen <cerrunos1@...>

                                          Subject: Re: [Slovak-World] Re: Frantisek Palacky

                                          To: "Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com" <Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com>

                                          Date: Monday, October 10, 2011, 2:24 PM

                                           

                                          Thank you very much, Martin!

                                          I am startled by how little is available on Charles IV.  I have his autobiography, and another work on his travels to France (in Czech), but aside from some encyclopedic entries and a disparaging blurb by Edward Gibbon, there really is not much on this guy that I am finding.  Even JSTOR is about dry... So much for the author of the Golden Bull and the "Father of the Czech Lands!" Karelstein is a nice castle, and there are some nice statues of him.  St. Vitus Cathedral is also a good memorial to that man, but somewhere you would think that SOMETHING more would be written about him!

                                          Ben

                                          ________________________________

                                          From: votrubam <votrubam@...>

                                          To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com

                                          Sent: Monday, October 10, 2011 1:24 AM

                                          Subject: [Slovak-World] Re: Frantisek Palacky

                                           

                                          > I know that Frantisek Palacky is not Slovak

                                          He spent a lot of his formative years in Slovakia, from around the age of 10 till 24. He graduated from the Lutheran college in Bratislava.

                                          > Charles IV, I am betting his work will be very helpful

                                          I wouldn't hold my breath given the difference between what's known about history today and what they knew then, but here it is:

                                          <http://tinyurl.com/3pt3q3u>

                                          Martin

                                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




                                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                        • Nemam Meno
                                          Ben: ...v poriadku, ked uz tak vrucne pises neopodstatnene myslienky.... ocividne, nevies rozdiel mezi cestinou a slovenciou - to je prvorade.... tvoje
                                          Message 20 of 27 , Oct 11, 2011
                                          • 0 Attachment
                                            Ben:

                                            ...v poriadku, ked uz tak vrucne pises neopodstatnene myslienky.... ocividne, nevies rozdiel mezi cestinou a slovenciou - to je prvorade.... tvoje myslenie je presne to, co so popisal.... nikto nenapisal o katolizme... pisal so o najsilnejsej kniznici o Palackom... Palackeho utec bol evanjelicky knaz, tak nepis o Luteranoch...

                                            Tvoje ortodogicke pozadie len potvrduzje judaisticke konexie, ktore v tebe otasli. A bud taky laskavy, nepis o "Amerike," ked tym myslis USA. Je velky intelektualny rozdiel medzi statmi v severnej amerike.

                                            ... mimochodom,  takzvani Slovaci, ktori prisli do US boli z vidieckeho, zidovskeho, a nevzdelaneho prostredia... cest vynimkam, ale ti prisli z politickych dovodov....

                                            ... a posledne... prosim ta, neporovnavaj sa ku Galileovi... takym hlupym, ale typickym komentom USA-cana urazas aj Talianov aj Slovakov.



                                            --- On Tue, 10/11/11, Ben Sorensen <cerrunos1@...> wrote:

                                            From: Ben Sorensen <cerrunos1@...>
                                            Subject: Re: [Slovak-World] Re: Frantisek Palacky
                                            To: "Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com" <Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com>
                                            Date: Tuesday, October 11, 2011, 11:43 AM
















                                             









                                            Ok, so his passages about Hus and his followers were certainly not written by a Catholic; his writings have been considered "uncatholic," and Palacky's family were overwhelmingly Lutherans.  But, since you want him to be a Catholic Slovak so badly, then I guess I will concede, just like Galileo conceded his point: obviously the facts point elsewhere, but I will agree with you.  Palacky still wrote his history in Czech, was born to a Moravian Lutheran family, and died in Prague.  



                                            I write in Slovak and English, am Orthodox, and have a Danish and Scottish family, but for you I will be a Zoroastrian Turk. Or a Baptist Croat.  Or is this just another faulty American analogy?  I am glad that I know enough laudable Slovaks that I do not have to draw the conclusions that all Slovaks in the American diaspora are parochial in their understanding of culture and history, and just outright mean, grumpy, and irrationally condescending,  though we often see examples of THESE particular qualities on this list (you get three guesses from whom).  



                                            I believe I will lend credence to the man who has single-handedly kept Pitt at the top of the list in Slavic language departments, is widely published in academia, and has dedicated his life to the pursuit of understanding, teaching, and disseminating facts about Slovak culture, economy, and language as well as immigration, the Slovak diaspora in North America, and dialects extant there over someone who has yet to identify himself/herself.  



                                            Ben



                                            ________________________________

                                            From: Nemam Meno <menonemam@...>

                                            To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com

                                            Sent: Tuesday, October 11, 2011 6:24 AM

                                            Subject: Re: [Slovak-World] Re: Frantisek Palacky



                                             

                                            .. you missed the point... it's not about finding FP's gymanzium; rather that it was the first one named after him with the strongest Catholic community and an extensive library on him.... your Masaryk comment is nothing but a faulty analogy.. quite frequently found in the U.S. community



                                            --- On Tue, 10/11/11, Ben Sorensen <cerrunos1@...> wrote:



                                            From: Ben Sorensen <cerrunos1@...>

                                            Subject: Re: [Slovak-World] Re: Frantisek Palacky

                                            To: "Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com" <Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com>

                                            Date: Tuesday, October 11, 2011, 3:48 AM



                                             



                                            Probably true that the Magyars did not name him "Frantisek," but finding the Gymnazium Frantiska Palackeho does not make him any more Slovak than finding "Aviende Presidente Masaryk" make Tomas Masaryk a Mexican.  



                                            My thanks to Martin for the leads, and the book on Google.  I am making great headway into this semester; but I am ready for a break, methinks. :-)  Oh, what I would not give for a better Czech and Slovak library nearby!



                                            Ben 



                                            ________________________________



                                            From: Nemam Meno <menonemam@...>



                                            To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com



                                            Sent: Monday, October 10, 2011 11:21 AM



                                            Subject: Re: [Slovak-World] Re: Frantisek Palacky



                                             



                                            Frantisek Palacky was not Slovak?  Since he pretty much died 45 years before the first Czechoslovak republic was established, you can hardly call him by his citizenship. I am sure, however, that the Magyars did not name him "Frantisek."



                                            If you want to know anything about him, all you have to do is contact nuns at the Gymnazium Frantiska Palackeho in Bratislava - you will be surprised by your "non-Slovak" comment.



                                            Ta-ta, F



                                            --- On Mon, 10/10/11, Ben Sorensen <cerrunos1@...> wrote:



                                            From: Ben Sorensen <cerrunos1@...>



                                            Subject: Re: [Slovak-World] Re: Frantisek Palacky



                                            To: "Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com" <Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com>



                                            Date: Monday, October 10, 2011, 2:24 PM



                                             



                                            Thank you very much, Martin!



                                            I am startled by how little is available on Charles IV.  I have his autobiography, and another work on his travels to France (in Czech), but aside from some encyclopedic entries and a disparaging blurb by Edward Gibbon, there really is not much on this guy that I am finding.  Even JSTOR is about dry... So much for the author of the Golden Bull and the "Father of the Czech Lands!" Karelstein is a nice castle, and there are some nice statues of him.  St. Vitus Cathedral is also a good memorial to that man, but somewhere you would think that SOMETHING more would be written about him!



                                            Ben



                                            ________________________________



                                            From: votrubam <votrubam@...>



                                            To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com



                                            Sent: Monday, October 10, 2011 1:24 AM



                                            Subject: [Slovak-World] Re: Frantisek Palacky



                                             



                                            > I know that Frantisek Palacky is not Slovak



                                            He spent a lot of his formative years in Slovakia, from around the age of 10 till 24. He graduated from the Lutheran college in Bratislava.



                                            > Charles IV, I am betting his work will be very helpful



                                            I wouldn't hold my breath given the difference between what's known about history today and what they knew then, but here it is:



                                            <http://tinyurl.com/3pt3q3u>



                                            Martin



                                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



                                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



                                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



                                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



                                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



























                                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                          • Ben Sorensen
                                            Hmm. Ok.  I did not know that we are informal.  How presumptuous.  Evanjelici are Lutherans, although from your answers to Martin and to me, I expect some
                                            Message 21 of 27 , Oct 11, 2011
                                            • 0 Attachment
                                              Hmm. Ok. 
                                              I did not know that we are informal.  How presumptuous. 

                                              Evanjelici are Lutherans, although from your answers to Martin and to me, I expect some type of antisemitic rationalization.  

                                              I was thinking of North America, and not just the USA.  I am not so provincial. 

                                              _takzvani Slovaci, ktori prisli do US boli z vidieckeho, zidovskeho, a nevzdelaneho prostredia_

                                              Ok, so where are YOU from? My wife has a doctorate, from Nitra, and lives in the USA.  None of us are Jews or uneducated.  I did, however, grow up on a farm, and my wife in a village.  MOST of Slovakia is still-ahem- "vidiek," and that is part of its "caro." Perhaps the wisdom of your forefathers was lost on you... I honor the fields and the universities; and good people are good people, be they from Spis, Saris, Bratislava, or even, gasp, Jewish!  Nemate meno, you have some real issues that you may need to examine.  Your hatred for Americans, your thinking that all Americans with Slovak roots being parochial, and your utter disrespect in your "answers" (I can also point to some writings on Slovak Roots) proves that you must find yourself to be a small, insignificant person and the anonymity offered by this list helps you inflate that undersized self-worth of yours.  I am not going to even begin on the obvious antisemitic sentiments inherent
                                              here. 

                                              You can inflate your own ego at redtube.com or somewhere else.  Please leave this group for people who want to have productive conversations.  Or actually join into them.  How novel.

                                              I am certainly no Galileo, and my comment was perfectly in line.  But your comments insult average intelligence everywhere.  And still no "podpis." Uz chapem preco "Nemate meno."  Oh, and please learn to use punctuation.

                                              Ben


                                              ________________________________
                                              From: Nemam Meno <menonemam@...>
                                              To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com
                                              Sent: Tuesday, October 11, 2011 8:49 AM
                                              Subject: Re: [Slovak-World] Re: Frantisek Palacky


                                               
                                              Ben:

                                              ...v poriadku, ked uz tak vrucne pises neopodstatnene myslienky.... ocividne, nevies rozdiel mezi cestinou a slovenciou - to je prvorade.... tvoje myslenie je presne to, co so popisal.... nikto nenapisal o katolizme... pisal so o najsilnejsej kniznici o Palackom... Palackeho utec bol evanjelicky knaz, tak nepis o Luteranoch...

                                              Tvoje ortodogicke pozadie len potvrduzje judaisticke konexie, ktore v tebe otasli. A bud taky laskavy, nepis o "Amerike," ked tym myslis USA. Je velky intelektualny rozdiel medzi statmi v severnej amerike.

                                              ... mimochodom,  takzvani Slovaci, ktori prisli do US boli z vidieckeho, zidovskeho, a nevzdelaneho prostredia... cest vynimkam, ale ti prisli z politickych dovodov....

                                              ... a posledne... prosim ta, neporovnavaj sa ku Galileovi... takym hlupym, ale typickym komentom USA-cana urazas aj Talianov aj Slovakov.

                                              --- On Tue, 10/11/11, Ben Sorensen <cerrunos1@...> wrote:

                                              From: Ben Sorensen <cerrunos1@...>
                                              Subject: Re: [Slovak-World] Re: Frantisek Palacky
                                              To: "Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com" <Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com>
                                              Date: Tuesday, October 11, 2011, 11:43 AM

                                               

                                              Ok, so his passages about Hus and his followers were certainly not written by a Catholic; his writings have been considered "uncatholic," and Palacky's family were overwhelmingly Lutherans.  But, since you want him to be a Catholic Slovak so badly, then I guess I will concede, just like Galileo conceded his point: obviously the facts point elsewhere, but I will agree with you.  Palacky still wrote his history in Czech, was born to a Moravian Lutheran family, and died in Prague.  

                                              I write in Slovak and English, am Orthodox, and have a Danish and Scottish family, but for you I will be a Zoroastrian Turk. Or a Baptist Croat.  Or is this just another faulty American analogy?  I am glad that I know enough laudable Slovaks that I do not have to draw the conclusions that all Slovaks in the American diaspora are parochial in their understanding of culture and history, and just outright mean, grumpy, and irrationally condescending,  though we often see examples of THESE particular qualities on this list (you get three guesses from whom).  

                                              I believe I will lend credence to the man who has single-handedly kept Pitt at the top of the list in Slavic language departments, is widely published in academia, and has dedicated his life to the pursuit of understanding, teaching, and disseminating facts about Slovak culture, economy, and language as well as immigration, the Slovak diaspora in North America, and dialects extant there over someone who has yet to identify himself/herself.  

                                              Ben

                                              ________________________________

                                              From: Nemam Meno <menonemam@...>

                                              To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com

                                              Sent: Tuesday, October 11, 2011 6:24 AM

                                              Subject: Re: [Slovak-World] Re: Frantisek Palacky

                                               

                                              .. you missed the point... it's not about finding FP's gymanzium; rather that it was the first one named after him with the strongest Catholic community and an extensive library on him.... your Masaryk comment is nothing but a faulty analogy.. quite frequently found in the U.S. community

                                              --- On Tue, 10/11/11, Ben Sorensen <cerrunos1@...> wrote:

                                              From: Ben Sorensen <cerrunos1@...>

                                              Subject: Re: [Slovak-World] Re: Frantisek Palacky

                                              To: "Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com" <Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com>

                                              Date: Tuesday, October 11, 2011, 3:48 AM

                                               

                                              Probably true that the Magyars did not name him "Frantisek," but finding the Gymnazium Frantiska Palackeho does not make him any more Slovak than finding "Aviende Presidente Masaryk" make Tomas Masaryk a Mexican.  

                                              My thanks to Martin for the leads, and the book on Google.  I am making great headway into this semester; but I am ready for a break, methinks. :-)  Oh, what I would not give for a better Czech and Slovak library nearby!

                                              Ben 

                                              ________________________________

                                              From: Nemam Meno <menonemam@...>

                                              To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com

                                              Sent: Monday, October 10, 2011 11:21 AM

                                              Subject: Re: [Slovak-World] Re: Frantisek Palacky

                                               

                                              Frantisek Palacky was not Slovak?  Since he pretty much died 45 years before the first Czechoslovak republic was established, you can hardly call him by his citizenship. I am sure, however, that the Magyars did not name him "Frantisek."

                                              If you want to know anything about him, all you have to do is contact nuns at the Gymnazium Frantiska Palackeho in Bratislava - you will be surprised by your "non-Slovak" comment.

                                              Ta-ta, F

                                              --- On Mon, 10/10/11, Ben Sorensen <cerrunos1@...> wrote:

                                              From: Ben Sorensen <cerrunos1@...>

                                              Subject: Re: [Slovak-World] Re: Frantisek Palacky

                                              To: "Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com" <Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com>

                                              Date: Monday, October 10, 2011, 2:24 PM

                                               

                                              Thank you very much, Martin!

                                              I am startled by how little is available on Charles IV.  I have his autobiography, and another work on his travels to France (in Czech), but aside from some encyclopedic entries and a disparaging blurb by Edward Gibbon, there really is not much on this guy that I am finding.  Even JSTOR is about dry... So much for the author of the Golden Bull and the "Father of the Czech Lands!" Karelstein is a nice castle, and there are some nice statues of him.  St. Vitus Cathedral is also a good memorial to that man, but somewhere you would think that SOMETHING more would be written about him!

                                              Ben

                                              ________________________________

                                              From: votrubam <votrubam@...>

                                              To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com

                                              Sent: Monday, October 10, 2011 1:24 AM

                                              Subject: [Slovak-World] Re: Frantisek Palacky

                                               

                                              > I know that Frantisek Palacky is not Slovak

                                              He spent a lot of his formative years in Slovakia, from around the age of 10 till 24. He graduated from the Lutheran college in Bratislava.

                                              > Charles IV, I am betting his work will be very helpful

                                              I wouldn't hold my breath given the difference between what's known about history today and what they knew then, but here it is:

                                              <http://tinyurl.com/3pt3q3u>

                                              Martin

                                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




                                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                            • Ben Sorensen
                                              This is also my last statement:  Ocividne, you did not open the book that was posted.  It is in Czech.  I have more important things to get back to. 
                                              Message 22 of 27 , Oct 11, 2011
                                              • 0 Attachment
                                                This is also my last statement: 
                                                Ocividne, you did not open the book that was posted.  It is in Czech. 
                                                I have more important things to get back to. 
                                                Cauko.
                                                Ben


                                                ________________________________
                                                From: Nemam Meno <menonemam@...>
                                                To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com
                                                Sent: Tuesday, October 11, 2011 8:49 AM
                                                Subject: Re: [Slovak-World] Re: Frantisek Palacky


                                                 
                                                Ben:

                                                ...v poriadku, ked uz tak vrucne pises neopodstatnene myslienky.... ocividne, nevies rozdiel mezi cestinou a slovenciou - to je prvorade.... tvoje myslenie je presne to, co so popisal.... nikto nenapisal o katolizme... pisal so o najsilnejsej kniznici o Palackom... Palackeho utec bol evanjelicky knaz, tak nepis o Luteranoch...

                                                Tvoje ortodogicke pozadie len potvrduzje judaisticke konexie, ktore v tebe otasli. A bud taky laskavy, nepis o "Amerike," ked tym myslis USA. Je velky intelektualny rozdiel medzi statmi v severnej amerike.

                                                ... mimochodom,  takzvani Slovaci, ktori prisli do US boli z vidieckeho, zidovskeho, a nevzdelaneho prostredia... cest vynimkam, ale ti prisli z politickych dovodov....

                                                ... a posledne... prosim ta, neporovnavaj sa ku Galileovi... takym hlupym, ale typickym komentom USA-cana urazas aj Talianov aj Slovakov.

                                                --- On Tue, 10/11/11, Ben Sorensen <cerrunos1@...> wrote:

                                                From: Ben Sorensen <cerrunos1@...>
                                                Subject: Re: [Slovak-World] Re: Frantisek Palacky
                                                To: "Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com" <Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com>
                                                Date: Tuesday, October 11, 2011, 11:43 AM

                                                 

                                                Ok, so his passages about Hus and his followers were certainly not written by a Catholic; his writings have been considered "uncatholic," and Palacky's family were overwhelmingly Lutherans.  But, since you want him to be a Catholic Slovak so badly, then I guess I will concede, just like Galileo conceded his point: obviously the facts point elsewhere, but I will agree with you.  Palacky still wrote his history in Czech, was born to a Moravian Lutheran family, and died in Prague.  

                                                I write in Slovak and English, am Orthodox, and have a Danish and Scottish family, but for you I will be a Zoroastrian Turk. Or a Baptist Croat.  Or is this just another faulty American analogy?  I am glad that I know enough laudable Slovaks that I do not have to draw the conclusions that all Slovaks in the American diaspora are parochial in their understanding of culture and history, and just outright mean, grumpy, and irrationally condescending,  though we often see examples of THESE particular qualities on this list (you get three guesses from whom).  

                                                I believe I will lend credence to the man who has single-handedly kept Pitt at the top of the list in Slavic language departments, is widely published in academia, and has dedicated his life to the pursuit of understanding, teaching, and disseminating facts about Slovak culture, economy, and language as well as immigration, the Slovak diaspora in North America, and dialects extant there over someone who has yet to identify himself/herself.  

                                                Ben

                                                ________________________________

                                                From: Nemam Meno <menonemam@...>

                                                To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com

                                                Sent: Tuesday, October 11, 2011 6:24 AM

                                                Subject: Re: [Slovak-World] Re: Frantisek Palacky

                                                 

                                                .. you missed the point... it's not about finding FP's gymanzium; rather that it was the first one named after him with the strongest Catholic community and an extensive library on him.... your Masaryk comment is nothing but a faulty analogy.. quite frequently found in the U.S. community

                                                --- On Tue, 10/11/11, Ben Sorensen <cerrunos1@...> wrote:

                                                From: Ben Sorensen <cerrunos1@...>

                                                Subject: Re: [Slovak-World] Re: Frantisek Palacky

                                                To: "Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com" <Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com>

                                                Date: Tuesday, October 11, 2011, 3:48 AM

                                                 

                                                Probably true that the Magyars did not name him "Frantisek," but finding the Gymnazium Frantiska Palackeho does not make him any more Slovak than finding "Aviende Presidente Masaryk" make Tomas Masaryk a Mexican.  

                                                My thanks to Martin for the leads, and the book on Google.  I am making great headway into this semester; but I am ready for a break, methinks. :-)  Oh, what I would not give for a better Czech and Slovak library nearby!

                                                Ben 

                                                ________________________________

                                                From: Nemam Meno <menonemam@...>

                                                To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com

                                                Sent: Monday, October 10, 2011 11:21 AM

                                                Subject: Re: [Slovak-World] Re: Frantisek Palacky

                                                 

                                                Frantisek Palacky was not Slovak?  Since he pretty much died 45 years before the first Czechoslovak republic was established, you can hardly call him by his citizenship. I am sure, however, that the Magyars did not name him "Frantisek."

                                                If you want to know anything about him, all you have to do is contact nuns at the Gymnazium Frantiska Palackeho in Bratislava - you will be surprised by your "non-Slovak" comment.

                                                Ta-ta, F

                                                --- On Mon, 10/10/11, Ben Sorensen <cerrunos1@...> wrote:

                                                From: Ben Sorensen <cerrunos1@...>

                                                Subject: Re: [Slovak-World] Re: Frantisek Palacky

                                                To: "Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com" <Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com>

                                                Date: Monday, October 10, 2011, 2:24 PM

                                                 

                                                Thank you very much, Martin!

                                                I am startled by how little is available on Charles IV.  I have his autobiography, and another work on his travels to France (in Czech), but aside from some encyclopedic entries and a disparaging blurb by Edward Gibbon, there really is not much on this guy that I am finding.  Even JSTOR is about dry... So much for the author of the Golden Bull and the "Father of the Czech Lands!" Karelstein is a nice castle, and there are some nice statues of him.  St. Vitus Cathedral is also a good memorial to that man, but somewhere you would think that SOMETHING more would be written about him!

                                                Ben

                                                ________________________________

                                                From: votrubam <votrubam@...>

                                                To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com

                                                Sent: Monday, October 10, 2011 1:24 AM

                                                Subject: [Slovak-World] Re: Frantisek Palacky

                                                 

                                                > I know that Frantisek Palacky is not Slovak

                                                He spent a lot of his formative years in Slovakia, from around the age of 10 till 24. He graduated from the Lutheran college in Bratislava.

                                                > Charles IV, I am betting his work will be very helpful

                                                I wouldn't hold my breath given the difference between what's known about history today and what they knew then, but here it is:

                                                <http://tinyurl.com/3pt3q3u>

                                                Martin

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                                              • Nemam Meno
                                                Ben: I have JD and PhD degrees, both from the US institutions, clearly.  Your defensive style is an ad hominem attack; and only because you categorically
                                                Message 23 of 27 , Oct 11, 2011
                                                • 0 Attachment
                                                  Ben:

                                                  I have JD and PhD degrees, both from the US institutions, clearly.  Your defensive style is an ad hominem attack; and only because you categorically failed to articulate a proper answer on FP.  You are somewhat a stereotypical person and your association to your wife does not make you nearly familiar with the Slovak culture; yet you labor under the impression that your word has no opposing argument, that is, a form of dogmatism. Let me introduce you to another fallacy: faulty causality; very common among people who read one page and declared to have written the book.

                                                  There is, however, a fine side to you - somewhat Slovakian in nature: you fight for your word by backing it up; and that is admirable. To me, sadly and gladly, you are still a local "gadzo."

                                                  Ta-ta

                                                  --- On Tue, 10/11/11, Ben Sorensen <cerrunos1@...> wrote:

                                                  From: Ben Sorensen <cerrunos1@...>
                                                  Subject: Re: [Slovak-World] Re: Frantisek Palacky
                                                  To: "Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com" <Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com>
                                                  Date: Tuesday, October 11, 2011, 2:03 PM
















                                                   









                                                  Hmm. Ok. 

                                                  I did not know that we are informal.  How presumptuous. 



                                                  Evanjelici are Lutherans, although from your answers to Martin and to me, I expect some type of antisemitic rationalization.  



                                                  I was thinking of North America, and not just the USA.  I am not so provincial. 



                                                  _takzvani Slovaci, ktori prisli do US boli z vidieckeho, zidovskeho, a nevzdelaneho prostredia_



                                                  Ok, so where are YOU from? My wife has a doctorate, from Nitra, and lives in the USA.  None of us are Jews or uneducated.  I did, however, grow up on a farm, and my wife in a village.  MOST of Slovakia is still-ahem- "vidiek," and that is part of its "caro." Perhaps the wisdom of your forefathers was lost on you... I honor the fields and the universities; and good people are good people, be they from Spis, Saris, Bratislava, or even, gasp, Jewish!  Nemate meno, you have some real issues that you may need to examine.  Your hatred for Americans, your thinking that all Americans with Slovak roots being parochial, and your utter disrespect in your "answers" (I can also point to some writings on Slovak Roots) proves that you must find yourself to be a small, insignificant person and the anonymity offered by this list helps you inflate that undersized self-worth of yours.  I am not going to even begin on the obvious antisemitic sentiments inherent

                                                  here. 



                                                  You can inflate your own ego at redtube.com or somewhere else.  Please leave this group for people who want to have productive conversations.  Or actually join into them.  How novel.



                                                  I am certainly no Galileo, and my comment was perfectly in line.  But your comments insult average intelligence everywhere.  And still no "podpis." Uz chapem preco "Nemate meno."  Oh, and please learn to use punctuation.



                                                  Ben



                                                  ________________________________

                                                  From: Nemam Meno <menonemam@...>

                                                  To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com

                                                  Sent: Tuesday, October 11, 2011 8:49 AM

                                                  Subject: Re: [Slovak-World] Re: Frantisek Palacky



                                                   

                                                  Ben:



                                                  ...v poriadku, ked uz tak vrucne pises neopodstatnene myslienky.... ocividne, nevies rozdiel mezi cestinou a slovenciou - to je prvorade.... tvoje myslenie je presne to, co so popisal.... nikto nenapisal o katolizme... pisal so o najsilnejsej kniznici o Palackom... Palackeho utec bol evanjelicky knaz, tak nepis o Luteranoch...



                                                  Tvoje ortodogicke pozadie len potvrduzje judaisticke konexie, ktore v tebe otasli. A bud taky laskavy, nepis o "Amerike," ked tym myslis USA. Je velky intelektualny rozdiel medzi statmi v severnej amerike.



                                                  ... mimochodom,  takzvani Slovaci, ktori prisli do US boli z vidieckeho, zidovskeho, a nevzdelaneho prostredia... cest vynimkam, ale ti prisli z politickych dovodov....



                                                  ... a posledne... prosim ta, neporovnavaj sa ku Galileovi... takym hlupym, ale typickym komentom USA-cana urazas aj Talianov aj Slovakov.



                                                  --- On Tue, 10/11/11, Ben Sorensen <cerrunos1@...> wrote:



                                                  From: Ben Sorensen <cerrunos1@...>

                                                  Subject: Re: [Slovak-World] Re: Frantisek Palacky

                                                  To: "Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com" <Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com>

                                                  Date: Tuesday, October 11, 2011, 11:43 AM



                                                   



                                                  Ok, so his passages about Hus and his followers were certainly not written by a Catholic; his writings have been considered "uncatholic," and Palacky's family were overwhelmingly Lutherans.  But, since you want him to be a Catholic Slovak so badly, then I guess I will concede, just like Galileo conceded his point: obviously the facts point elsewhere, but I will agree with you.  Palacky still wrote his history in Czech, was born to a Moravian Lutheran family, and died in Prague.  



                                                  I write in Slovak and English, am Orthodox, and have a Danish and Scottish family, but for you I will be a Zoroastrian Turk. Or a Baptist Croat.  Or is this just another faulty American analogy?  I am glad that I know enough laudable Slovaks that I do not have to draw the conclusions that all Slovaks in the American diaspora are parochial in their understanding of culture and history, and just outright mean, grumpy, and irrationally condescending,  though we often see examples of THESE particular qualities on this list (you get three guesses from whom).  



                                                  I believe I will lend credence to the man who has single-handedly kept Pitt at the top of the list in Slavic language departments, is widely published in academia, and has dedicated his life to the pursuit of understanding, teaching, and disseminating facts about Slovak culture, economy, and language as well as immigration, the Slovak diaspora in North America, and dialects extant there over someone who has yet to identify himself/herself.  



                                                  Ben



                                                  ________________________________



                                                  From: Nemam Meno <menonemam@...>



                                                  To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com



                                                  Sent: Tuesday, October 11, 2011 6:24 AM



                                                  Subject: Re: [Slovak-World] Re: Frantisek Palacky



                                                   



                                                  .. you missed the point... it's not about finding FP's gymanzium; rather that it was the first one named after him with the strongest Catholic community and an extensive library on him.... your Masaryk comment is nothing but a faulty analogy.. quite frequently found in the U.S. community



                                                  --- On Tue, 10/11/11, Ben Sorensen <cerrunos1@...> wrote:



                                                  From: Ben Sorensen <cerrunos1@...>



                                                  Subject: Re: [Slovak-World] Re: Frantisek Palacky



                                                  To: "Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com" <Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com>



                                                  Date: Tuesday, October 11, 2011, 3:48 AM



                                                   



                                                  Probably true that the Magyars did not name him "Frantisek," but finding the Gymnazium Frantiska Palackeho does not make him any more Slovak than finding "Aviende Presidente Masaryk" make Tomas Masaryk a Mexican.  



                                                  My thanks to Martin for the leads, and the book on Google.  I am making great headway into this semester; but I am ready for a break, methinks. :-)  Oh, what I would not give for a better Czech and Slovak library nearby!



                                                  Ben 



                                                  ________________________________



                                                  From: Nemam Meno <menonemam@...>



                                                  To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com



                                                  Sent: Monday, October 10, 2011 11:21 AM



                                                  Subject: Re: [Slovak-World] Re: Frantisek Palacky



                                                   



                                                  Frantisek Palacky was not Slovak?  Since he pretty much died 45 years before the first Czechoslovak republic was established, you can hardly call him by his citizenship. I am sure, however, that the Magyars did not name him "Frantisek."



                                                  If you want to know anything about him, all you have to do is contact nuns at the Gymnazium Frantiska Palackeho in Bratislava - you will be surprised by your "non-Slovak" comment.



                                                  Ta-ta, F



                                                  --- On Mon, 10/10/11, Ben Sorensen <cerrunos1@...> wrote:



                                                  From: Ben Sorensen <cerrunos1@...>



                                                  Subject: Re: [Slovak-World] Re: Frantisek Palacky



                                                  To: "Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com" <Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com>



                                                  Date: Monday, October 10, 2011, 2:24 PM



                                                   



                                                  Thank you very much, Martin!



                                                  I am startled by how little is available on Charles IV.  I have his autobiography, and another work on his travels to France (in Czech), but aside from some encyclopedic entries and a disparaging blurb by Edward Gibbon, there really is not much on this guy that I am finding.  Even JSTOR is about dry... So much for the author of the Golden Bull and the "Father of the Czech Lands!" Karelstein is a nice castle, and there are some nice statues of him.  St. Vitus Cathedral is also a good memorial to that man, but somewhere you would think that SOMETHING more would be written about him!



                                                  Ben



                                                  ________________________________



                                                  From: votrubam <votrubam@...>



                                                  To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com



                                                  Sent: Monday, October 10, 2011 1:24 AM



                                                  Subject: [Slovak-World] Re: Frantisek Palacky



                                                   



                                                  > I know that Frantisek Palacky is not Slovak



                                                  He spent a lot of his formative years in Slovakia, from around the age of 10 till 24. He graduated from the Lutheran college in Bratislava.



                                                  > Charles IV, I am betting his work will be very helpful



                                                  I wouldn't hold my breath given the difference between what's known about history today and what they knew then, but here it is:



                                                  <http://tinyurl.com/3pt3q3u>



                                                  Martin



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                                                • Nick Holcz
                                                  Ben ... What does this mean? It looks to me that it links Jews and uneducated together. Nick
                                                  Message 24 of 27 , Oct 11, 2011
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                                                    Ben
                                                    >you wrote.
                                                    > None of us are Jews or uneducated.

                                                    What does this mean? It looks to me that it links Jews and uneducated together.

                                                    Nick
                                                  • Ben
                                                    Nick, it was not me that linked the two. Sent from my Verizon Wireless Phone
                                                    Message 25 of 27 , Oct 12, 2011
                                                    • 0 Attachment
                                                      Nick, it was not me that linked the two.

                                                      Sent from my Verizon Wireless Phone

                                                      Nick Holcz <nickh@...> wrote:

                                                      >
                                                      >Ben
                                                      >>you wrote.
                                                      >> None of us are Jews or uneducated.
                                                      >
                                                      >What does this mean? It looks to me that it links Jews and uneducated together.
                                                      >
                                                      >Nick
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                    • Nick Holcz
                                                      ... Nick
                                                      Message 26 of 27 , Oct 12, 2011
                                                      • 0 Attachment
                                                        >Ben, my apologies for my error

                                                        Nick

                                                        >
                                                      • Ben Sorensen
                                                        No harm done.  Ben ________________________________ From: Nick Holcz To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, October 12, 2011
                                                        Message 27 of 27 , Oct 12, 2011
                                                        • 0 Attachment
                                                          No harm done. 
                                                          Ben


                                                          ________________________________
                                                          From: Nick Holcz <nickh@...>
                                                          To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com
                                                          Sent: Wednesday, October 12, 2011 10:00 AM
                                                          Subject: Re: [Slovak-World] Re: Frantisek Palacky


                                                           

                                                          >Ben, my apologies for my error

                                                          Nick

                                                          >




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