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Re: [Slovak-World] WW II in Slovakia

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  • lkocik@comcast.net
    Vilo  For once in my life I m speechless. I never save emails but I printed this one out. Thank you for sharing Vilo. I ll write again after I digest
    Message 1 of 11 , May 18 11:45 AM
    • 0 Attachment
      Vilo

       For once in my life I'm speechless. I never save emails but I printed this one out.

      Thank you for sharing Vilo. I'll write again after I digest everything you wrote. It's very powerful and moving.

      Larry----- Original Message -----
      From: "William C. Wormuth" <senzus@...>
      To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Wednesday, May 18, 2011 12:12:27 AM
      Subject: Re: [Slovak-World] WW II in Slovakia

      Larry,

      I have never read any articles or books which were complimentary toward the
      forst Slovak republik.  I had relatives and friends who lived in Slovakia during
      WWII.  


      These people all related stories to me concerning the war and especially toward
      the end and after, when the first wave of Russians came through.  None of these
      people were anti Jewish.  They all had been proud that for the first time,
      Slovaks were governing themselves and were complimentary of what the Government
      accomplished, especially on the infrastructure,such as regulating the Morava
      river, which prevented floods, which were common, each year.  


      The Old Film, Obchod na Korze, Shop on Main Street, was a propaganda film but it
      gives one a picture of what it might have been like before the war. In Kuty,
      businesses were owned by Jews only and it had been that way since all of the
      people were born.  


      This was because the Jews were given the task of tax collecting, by the
      Hungarian rulers.  That way, the people would not think of them as "Thieves".  
      My Grand mother used to tell us, "The king took 50% and the Jews, 40%..There was
      no Slovak school, in the town but there was a Jewish one.  Gramma was not anti
      Jewish but wanted to give us a picture of her life then

      If you understand the "way it was", you might understand why the people were
      apathetic about the roundup of those people and their "deportation".  Our people
      had no idea that the Jews would be slaughtered and when they finally found out,
      they began hiding any Jews they knew about.

      One friend and his co-workers, hid a Jew in the office until the wars end.  If
      they were caught by the Germans, they would have been executed.

      The Hlinkova Garda was portrayed as some sort  of SS troopers but they were the
      soldiers of the day and were responsible for rounding up Jews for deportation.  
      By the time they found that the Jews were being executed, the Jews had already
      gone away.  


      Father Augustine Zan, was our assistant Pastor here.  He had been a secretary to
      Monsignor Jozef Tiso.  He was a good friend of mine in my High School years and
      told me many tales as we walked along country roads here.

      At the wars end, when the coimmunists were killing the goverment leaders, the
      people hid father, in the bell tower, until they could devise a plan to smuggle
      him to Germany, where he was chaplain to Slovak escapees.

      The communists fabricated a picture of Father Zan, standing among bodies,
      holding a pistol, as if he had killed all.  They then forwarded the Photo to
      many embassies.  They then followed him to his town in Germany and the German
      Government sent him to Rome.  He was then sent to the Albany NY diocese.

      When I think of those days and what the Nazis did, I also remember the suffering
      of the millions of non-Jews who were also killed.  These included people of many
      nations as well as many who aged, infirm, mental etc.  They also were
      slaughtering Gypsies and homosexuals.  


      I spent 4 years in the USAF but only aafter the Korean war ended so I did not
      experience war.  However, my Mother's sister, was an Army nurse and participated
      in the second wave at Normandy.  She proceeded with the forces, all the way to
      Vienna.  Her stories were very shocking and thank God she survived.

      Books concerning the experience of Jews, are numerous. The Israeli Government
      has been complimentary toward the Slovak people and their actions during those
      times.

      As the German Army was leaving, some of them knocked on the doors and warned the
      people to hide their young daughters and any valuables they had because the
      Russians were coming.  They knew that this wave were mostly uneducated mongols
      that were pillaging and raping .

      My cousins Grandmother was raped, on her death bed.!  

      All of these stories and memories makes me appreciate how far our people have
      come and how adaptive they have been to the changes in their lives.

      Z Bohom,

      Vilo




      ________________________________
      From: "lkocik@..." <lkocik@...>
      To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Wed, May 18, 2011 12:32:04 AM
      Subject: Re: [Slovak-World] WW II in Slovakia

        


      Ron

       Thank you for the recommendation. I will look into the book.

       I do realize everything I find will not be pleasant, but I want to know the
      truth. I also understand people do what they have to just  to survive. I'm a
      veteran of a foriegn war, but it was "over there" and after I served my time I
      got to come home. I can't begin to imagine what atrocities the Eastern Europeans
      civilians had to suffer in WW2, so I have no right to judge . Knowing myself for
      as long as I have, I have to wonder if I would have been able to stand up and be
      counted among what the J ews called "the rightous". I would hope I could, but  I
      have to be honest and say probably not.


           With the communists, nazis, Hungarians and even Moravians...was there ever
      a time in history when the Slovaks weren't under someone's thumb?


       Larry---- Original Message -----
      From: "Ron" <amiak27@...>
      To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Tuesday, May 17, 2011 4:11:29 PM
      Subject: [Slovak-World] WW II in Slovakia

      Larry,

      You said "... to understand the role of Slovaks in WW2"

      War topics get way too much attention, but the public demands it.  I burned out
      on wars a long time ago, but can recommend a book I recently discovered, one
      that presents Slovaks and Poles and Jewish victims at Auschwitz without the
      finger pointing that has become de rigueur.  


      "Escape from Hell: The True Story of the Auschwitz Protocol
      by Alfred Wetzler"

      The bad guys are the fascists (mostly German, but also some Poles and Slovaks),
      and the good guys are the Resistance, the communists (then our allies and
      certifiably anti-fascist).  Heroic people presented to us are taken from the
      Jewish, the Poles and the Slovaks.


      The book was published during the communist times in 1963 and was only
      translated from the Slovak into English in 2007.


      If the topic interests you then certainly it is a book to be recommended.
       Returning to your wish to understand, it also presents an interesting window on
      everyday life and values of our peoples back then.  


      Ron
      P.S. The escape route from Auschwitz was across the mountains to Cadsa in NW
      Slovakia.  


      Escape from Hell: The True Story of the Auschwitz Protocol
      by Alfred Wetzler
      ISBN 1-84545-183-X or hardback ISBN 978-1-84545-183-7  

          

      --- In Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com, lkocik@... wrote:
      >
      >
      >
      > Allen
      >
      > Â About your web site www.52insk.com
      >
      > Â Very insightful. I've tried for years to understand the role of Slovaks in
      >WW2, but being such a sensitive subject, it was hard to find such an objective
      >explanation. I also share your thoughts on neo-nazi types in present day
      >Bratislava, which of course applies to their ilk everywhere.
      >
      > Thank you Allen; I put your site on my "favorite places".
      >
      > Larry Kocik

      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


       

      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • William C. Wormuth
      Ahoj Larry, Thanks for the complement. I was hesitant to respond because I did not want to start war over this. I never wanted our people to be thought of
      Message 2 of 11 , May 18 12:25 PM
      • 0 Attachment
        Ahoj Larry,

        Thanks for the complement. I was hesitant to respond because I did not want to
        start "war" over this. I never wanted our people to be thought of as nazi.
        They were no more nazi than our own and the British Governments, who did nothing
        when this was happening and only responding when the damage was already done.

        I have always believed that their "guilt" over allowing the massacers was the
        reason for giving away Palestinian lands to the Jews, which has created a
        similar human destruction and displacement, (of Palestinians), which continues
        today. I realize that these peoples had no other place to go after their
        liberation but...........

        I worked and lived in the Mid East for 20 years, witnessing the destruction of
        Lebanon, the "Pearl of the Mediterranean" and other places there where displaced
        Palestinians lived. These places were and are called "camps" but are cities
        where these poor, starving peoples reside Some of my best friends were
        displaced Palestinians, so I have "both sides of the story".

        I probably will not live long enough to see a Palestinian State but have long
        prayed for their freedom. I have a good friend whose land in East Jerusalem has
        been recently been confiscated. It had been in his family for over 1,000 years.

        It is indeed a sad time for all of them.

        Z Bohom,

        Vilo





        ________________________________
        From: "lkocik@..." <lkocik@...>
        To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Wed, May 18, 2011 2:45:53 PM
        Subject: Re: [Slovak-World] WW II in Slovakia




        Vilo

        For once in my life I'm speechless. I never save emails but I printed this one
        out.


        Thank you for sharing Vilo. I'll write again after I digest everything you
        wrote. It's very powerful and moving.


        Larry----- Original Message -----
        From: "William C. Wormuth" <senzus@...>
        To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Wednesday, May 18, 2011 12:12:27 AM
        Subject: Re: [Slovak-World] WW II in Slovakia

        Larry,

        I have never read any articles or books which were complimentary toward the
        forst Slovak republik. I had relatives and friends who lived in Slovakia during

        WWII.

        These people all related stories to me concerning the war and especially toward
        the end and after, when the first wave of Russians came through. None of these
        people were anti Jewish. They all had been proud that for the first time,
        Slovaks were governing themselves and were complimentary of what the Government
        accomplished, especially on the infrastructure,such as regulating the Morava
        river, which prevented floods, which were common, each year.

        The Old Film, Obchod na Korze, Shop on Main Street, was a propaganda film but it

        gives one a picture of what it might have been like before the war. In Kuty,
        businesses were owned by Jews only and it had been that way since all of the
        people were born.

        This was because the Jews were given the task of tax collecting, by the
        Hungarian rulers. That way, the people would not think of them as "Thieves".
        My Grand mother used to tell us, "The king took 50% and the Jews, 40%..There was

        no Slovak school, in the town but there was a Jewish one. Gramma was not anti
        Jewish but wanted to give us a picture of her life then

        If you understand the "way it was", you might understand why the people were
        apathetic about the roundup of those people and their "deportation". Our people

        had no idea that the Jews would be slaughtered and when they finally found out,
        they began hiding any Jews they knew about.

        One friend and his co-workers, hid a Jew in the office until the wars end. If
        they were caught by the Germans, they would have been executed.

        The Hlinkova Garda was portrayed as some sort of SS troopers but they were the
        soldiers of the day and were responsible for rounding up Jews for deportation.

        By the time they found that the Jews were being executed, the Jews had already
        gone away.

        Father Augustine Zan, was our assistant Pastor here. He had been a secretary to

        Monsignor Jozef Tiso. He was a good friend of mine in my High School years and
        told me many tales as we walked along country roads here.

        At the wars end, when the coimmunists were killing the goverment leaders, the
        people hid father, in the bell tower, until they could devise a plan to smuggle
        him to Germany, where he was chaplain to Slovak escapees.

        The communists fabricated a picture of Father Zan, standing among bodies,
        holding a pistol, as if he had killed all. They then forwarded the Photo to
        many embassies. They then followed him to his town in Germany and the German
        Government sent him to Rome. He was then sent to the Albany NY diocese.

        When I think of those days and what the Nazis did, I also remember the suffering

        of the millions of non-Jews who were also killed. These included people of many

        nations as well as many who aged, infirm, mental etc. They also were
        slaughtering Gypsies and homosexuals.

        I spent 4 years in the USAF but only aafter the Korean war ended so I did not
        experience war. However, my Mother's sister, was an Army nurse and participated

        in the second wave at Normandy. She proceeded with the forces, all the way to
        Vienna. Her stories were very shocking and thank God she survived.

        Books concerning the experience of Jews, are numerous. The Israeli Government
        has been complimentary toward the Slovak people and their actions during those
        times.

        As the German Army was leaving, some of them knocked on the doors and warned the

        people to hide their young daughters and any valuables they had because the
        Russians were coming. They knew that this wave were mostly uneducated mongols
        that were pillaging and raping .

        My cousins Grandmother was raped, on her death bed.!

        All of these stories and memories makes me appreciate how far our people have
        come and how adaptive they have been to the changes in their lives.

        Z Bohom,

        Vilo

        ________________________________
        From: "lkocik@..." <lkocik@...>
        To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Wed, May 18, 2011 12:32:04 AM
        Subject: Re: [Slovak-World] WW II in Slovakia



        Ron

        Thank you for the recommendation. I will look into the book.

        I do realize everything I find will not be pleasant, but I want to know the
        truth. I also understand people do what they have to just to survive. I'm a
        veteran of a foriegn war, but it was "over there" and after I served my time I
        got to come home. I can't begin to imagine what atrocities the Eastern Europeans

        civilians had to suffer in WW2, so I have no right to judge . Knowing myself for

        as long as I have, I have to wonder if I would have been able to stand up and be

        counted among what the J ews called "the rightous". I would hope I could, but I

        have to be honest and say probably not.

        With the communists, nazis, Hungarians and even Moravians...was there ever
        a time in history when the Slovaks weren't under someone's thumb?

        Larry---- Original Message -----
        From: "Ron" <amiak27@...>
        To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Tuesday, May 17, 2011 4:11:29 PM
        Subject: [Slovak-World] WW II in Slovakia

        Larry,

        You said "... to understand the role of Slovaks in WW2"

        War topics get way too much attention, but the public demands it. I burned out
        on wars a long time ago, but can recommend a book I recently discovered, one
        that presents Slovaks and Poles and Jewish victims at Auschwitz without the
        finger pointing that has become de rigueur.

        "Escape from Hell: The True Story of the Auschwitz Protocol
        by Alfred Wetzler"

        The bad guys are the fascists (mostly German, but also some Poles and Slovaks),
        and the good guys are the Resistance, the communists (then our allies and
        certifiably anti-fascist). Heroic people presented to us are taken from the
        Jewish, the Poles and the Slovaks.

        The book was published during the communist times in 1963 and was only
        translated from the Slovak into English in 2007.

        If the topic interests you then certainly it is a book to be recommended.
        Returning to your wish to understand, it also presents an interesting window on

        everyday life and values of our peoples back then.

        Ron
        P.S. The escape route from Auschwitz was across the mountains to Cadsa in NW
        Slovakia.

        Escape from Hell: The True Story of the Auschwitz Protocol
        by Alfred Wetzler
        ISBN 1-84545-183-X or hardback ISBN 978-1-84545-183-7



        --- In Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com, lkocik@... wrote:
        >
        >
        >
        > Allen
        >
        > Â About your web site www.52insk.com
        >
        > Â Very insightful. I've tried for years to understand the role of Slovaks in
        >WW2, but being such a sensitive subject, it was hard to find such an objective
        >explanation. I also share your thoughts on neo-nazi types in present day
        >Bratislava, which of course applies to their ilk everywhere.
        >
        > Thank you Allen; I put your site on my "favorite places".
        >
        > Larry Kocik

        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • allanstevo
        Vilo, I agree with Larry. That s a strong summary of controversial opinions very well presented. Thank you. Allan www.52inSk.com
        Message 3 of 11 , May 19 9:45 AM
        • 0 Attachment
          Vilo,
          I agree with Larry. That's a strong summary of controversial opinions very well presented. Thank you.
          Allan
          www.52inSk.com

          --- In Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com, "William C. Wormuth" <senzus@...> wrote:
          >
          > Ahoj Larry,
          >
          > Thanks for the complement. I was hesitant to respond because I did not want to
          > start "war" over this. I never wanted our people to be thought of as nazi.
          > They were no more nazi than our own and the British Governments, who did nothing
          > when this was happening and only responding when the damage was already done.
          >
          > I have always believed that their "guilt" over allowing the massacers was the
          > reason for giving away Palestinian lands to the Jews, which has created a
          > similar human destruction and displacement, (of Palestinians), which continues
          > today. I realize that these peoples had no other place to go after their
          > liberation but...........
          >
          > I worked and lived in the Mid East for 20 years, witnessing the destruction of
          > Lebanon, the "Pearl of the Mediterranean" and other places there where displaced
          > Palestinians lived. These places were and are called "camps" but are cities
          > where these poor, starving peoples reside Some of my best friends were
          > displaced Palestinians, so I have "both sides of the story".
          >
          > I probably will not live long enough to see a Palestinian State but have long
          > prayed for their freedom. I have a good friend whose land in East Jerusalem has
          > been recently been confiscated. It had been in his family for over 1,000 years.
          >
          > It is indeed a sad time for all of them.
          >
          > Z Bohom,
          >
          > Vilo
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > ________________________________
          > From: "lkocik@..." <lkocik@...>
          > To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com
          > Sent: Wed, May 18, 2011 2:45:53 PM
          > Subject: Re: [Slovak-World] WW II in Slovakia
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > Vilo
          >
          > For once in my life I'm speechless. I never save emails but I printed this one
          > out.
          >
          >
          > Thank you for sharing Vilo. I'll write again after I digest everything you
          > wrote. It's very powerful and moving.
          >
          >
          > Larry----- Original Message -----
          > From: "William C. Wormuth" <senzus@...>
          > To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com
          > Sent: Wednesday, May 18, 2011 12:12:27 AM
          > Subject: Re: [Slovak-World] WW II in Slovakia
          >
          > Larry,
          >
          > I have never read any articles or books which were complimentary toward the
          > forst Slovak republik. I had relatives and friends who lived in Slovakia during
          >
          > WWII.
          >
          > These people all related stories to me concerning the war and especially toward
          > the end and after, when the first wave of Russians came through. None of these
          > people were anti Jewish. They all had been proud that for the first time,
          > Slovaks were governing themselves and were complimentary of what the Government
          > accomplished, especially on the infrastructure,such as regulating the Morava
          > river, which prevented floods, which were common, each year.
          >
          > The Old Film, Obchod na Korze, Shop on Main Street, was a propaganda film but it
          >
          > gives one a picture of what it might have been like before the war. In Kuty,
          > businesses were owned by Jews only and it had been that way since all of the
          > people were born.
          >
          > This was because the Jews were given the task of tax collecting, by the
          > Hungarian rulers. That way, the people would not think of them as "Thieves".
          > My Grand mother used to tell us, "The king took 50% and the Jews, 40%..There was
          >
          > no Slovak school, in the town but there was a Jewish one. Gramma was not anti
          > Jewish but wanted to give us a picture of her life then
          >
          > If you understand the "way it was", you might understand why the people were
          > apathetic about the roundup of those people and their "deportation". Our people
          >
          > had no idea that the Jews would be slaughtered and when they finally found out,
          > they began hiding any Jews they knew about.
          >
          > One friend and his co-workers, hid a Jew in the office until the wars end. If
          > they were caught by the Germans, they would have been executed.
          >
          > The Hlinkova Garda was portrayed as some sort of SS troopers but they were the
          > soldiers of the day and were responsible for rounding up Jews for deportation.
          >
          > By the time they found that the Jews were being executed, the Jews had already
          > gone away.
          >
          > Father Augustine Zan, was our assistant Pastor here. He had been a secretary to
          >
          > Monsignor Jozef Tiso. He was a good friend of mine in my High School years and
          > told me many tales as we walked along country roads here.
          >
          > At the wars end, when the coimmunists were killing the goverment leaders, the
          > people hid father, in the bell tower, until they could devise a plan to smuggle
          > him to Germany, where he was chaplain to Slovak escapees.
          >
          > The communists fabricated a picture of Father Zan, standing among bodies,
          > holding a pistol, as if he had killed all. They then forwarded the Photo to
          > many embassies. They then followed him to his town in Germany and the German
          > Government sent him to Rome. He was then sent to the Albany NY diocese.
          >
          > When I think of those days and what the Nazis did, I also remember the suffering
          >
          > of the millions of non-Jews who were also killed. These included people of many
          >
          > nations as well as many who aged, infirm, mental etc. They also were
          > slaughtering Gypsies and homosexuals.
          >
          > I spent 4 years in the USAF but only aafter the Korean war ended so I did not
          > experience war. However, my Mother's sister, was an Army nurse and participated
          >
          > in the second wave at Normandy. She proceeded with the forces, all the way to
          > Vienna. Her stories were very shocking and thank God she survived.
          >
          > Books concerning the experience of Jews, are numerous. The Israeli Government
          > has been complimentary toward the Slovak people and their actions during those
          > times.
          >
          > As the German Army was leaving, some of them knocked on the doors and warned the
          >
          > people to hide their young daughters and any valuables they had because the
          > Russians were coming. They knew that this wave were mostly uneducated mongols
          > that were pillaging and raping .
          >
          > My cousins Grandmother was raped, on her death bed.!
          >
          > All of these stories and memories makes me appreciate how far our people have
          > come and how adaptive they have been to the changes in their lives.
          >
          > Z Bohom,
          >
          > Vilo
          >
          > ________________________________
          > From: "lkocik@..." <lkocik@...>
          > To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com
          > Sent: Wed, May 18, 2011 12:32:04 AM
          > Subject: Re: [Slovak-World] WW II in Slovakia
          >
          >
          >
          > Ron
          >
          > Thank you for the recommendation. I will look into the book.
          >
          > I do realize everything I find will not be pleasant, but I want to know the
          > truth. I also understand people do what they have to just to survive. I'm a
          > veteran of a foriegn war, but it was "over there" and after I served my time I
          > got to come home. I can't begin to imagine what atrocities the Eastern Europeans
          >
          > civilians had to suffer in WW2, so I have no right to judge . Knowing myself for
          >
          > as long as I have, I have to wonder if I would have been able to stand up and be
          >
          > counted among what the J ews called "the rightous". I would hope I could, but I
          >
          > have to be honest and say probably not.
          >
          > With the communists, nazis, Hungarians and even Moravians...was there ever
          > a time in history when the Slovaks weren't under someone's thumb?
          >
          > Larry---- Original Message -----
          > From: "Ron" <amiak27@...>
          > To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com
          > Sent: Tuesday, May 17, 2011 4:11:29 PM
          > Subject: [Slovak-World] WW II in Slovakia
          >
          > Larry,
          >
          > You said "... to understand the role of Slovaks in WW2"
          >
          > War topics get way too much attention, but the public demands it. I burned out
          > on wars a long time ago, but can recommend a book I recently discovered, one
          > that presents Slovaks and Poles and Jewish victims at Auschwitz without the
          > finger pointing that has become de rigueur.
          >
          > "Escape from Hell: The True Story of the Auschwitz Protocol
          > by Alfred Wetzler"
          >
          > The bad guys are the fascists (mostly German, but also some Poles and Slovaks),
          > and the good guys are the Resistance, the communists (then our allies and
          > certifiably anti-fascist). Heroic people presented to us are taken from the
          > Jewish, the Poles and the Slovaks.
          >
          > The book was published during the communist times in 1963 and was only
          > translated from the Slovak into English in 2007.
          >
          > If the topic interests you then certainly it is a book to be recommended.
          > Returning to your wish to understand, it also presents an interesting window on
          >
          > everyday life and values of our peoples back then.
          >
          > Ron
          > P.S. The escape route from Auschwitz was across the mountains to Cadsa in NW
          > Slovakia.
          >
          > Escape from Hell: The True Story of the Auschwitz Protocol
          > by Alfred Wetzler
          > ISBN 1-84545-183-X or hardback ISBN 978-1-84545-183-7
          >
          >
          >
          > --- In Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com, lkocik@ wrote:
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > Allen
          > >
          > > Â About your web site www.52insk.com
          > >
          > > Â Very insightful. I've tried for years to understand the role of Slovaks in
          > >WW2, but being such a sensitive subject, it was hard to find such an objective
          > >explanation. I also share your thoughts on neo-nazi types in present day
          > >Bratislava, which of course applies to their ilk everywhere.
          > >
          > > Thank you Allen; I put your site on my "favorite places".
          > >
          > > Larry Kocik
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
          >
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
        • allanstevo
          Larry, Your comments are much appreciated. It s a touchy subject that is hard to speak about openly, especially at home. Many Slovaks on the other hand are
          Message 4 of 11 , May 19 9:48 AM
          • 0 Attachment
            Larry,
            Your comments are much appreciated. It's a touchy subject that is hard to speak about openly, especially at home. Many Slovaks on the other hand are almost fearless about what kinds of insults people wing at them. I meet a lot of people who are willing to share what they believe to be the truth, regardless of what -ism those listening will label them with.
            Allan

            --- In Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com, lkocik@... wrote:
            >
            >
            >
            > Allen
            >
            >  About your web site www.52insk.com
            >
            >  Very insightful. I've tried for years to understand the role of Slovaks in WW2, but being such a sensitive subject, it was hard to find such an objective explanation. I also share your thoughts on neo-nazi types in present day Bratislava, which of course applies to their ilk everywhere.
            > Thank you Allen; I put your site on my "favorite places".
            >
            > Larry Kocik                                                                ----- Original Message -----
            > From: "allanstevo" <allanstevo@...>
            > To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com
            > Sent: Tuesday, May 17, 2011 12:29:47 AM
            > Subject: [Slovak-World] Seeking Female Genealogy Experts
            >
            > This is a posting from "Help a Reporter" requesting the assistance of a female genealogy expert over fifty.  Thought it might be of interest to someone on this list.  If it is of interest to you, just respond to the email listed - query-17kc@...
            > Allan
            > www.52insk.com
            >
            > --
            >
            >
            > Summary: seeking genealogy experts over fifty
            >
            > Name: Lina Perl         (faboverfifty.com)
            > Category: General
            >
            > Email: query-17kc@...
            >
            > Media Outlet: faboverfifty.com
            >
            > Deadline: 07:00 PM EST - 18 May
            >
            > Query:
            >
            > Hi there - I'm seeking women over fifty who are passionate about
            > genealogy--either at the professional or hobbyist level--and are
            > interested in answering questions and serving as genealogy
            > "gurus" on Faboverfifty.com. Next week is "genealogy week" on
            > the site, and we'll be inviting our members to ask questions of a
            > select group of "genealogy experts" who can provide suggestions
            > for getting started on an ancestral search!
            >
            >  
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >
          • William C. Wormuth
            Allen, Thank you for the compliment. Z Bohom, Vilo ________________________________ From: allanstevo To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com
            Message 5 of 11 , May 19 3:09 PM
            • 0 Attachment
              Allen,

              Thank you for the compliment.

              Z Bohom,

              Vilo





              ________________________________
              From: allanstevo <allanstevo@...>
              To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Thu, May 19, 2011 12:45:48 PM
              Subject: [Slovak-World] Re: WW II in Slovakia


              Vilo,
              I agree with Larry. That's a strong summary of controversial opinions very well
              presented. Thank you.
              Allan
              www.52inSk.com

              --- In Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com, "William C. Wormuth" <senzus@...> wrote:
              >
              > Ahoj Larry,
              >
              > Thanks for the complement. I was hesitant to respond because I did not want to
              >
              > start "war" over this. I never wanted our people to be thought of as nazi.
              > They were no more nazi than our own and the British Governments, who did
              >nothing
              >
              > when this was happening and only responding when the damage was already done.
              >
              > I have always believed that their "guilt" over allowing the massacers was the
              > reason for giving away Palestinian lands to the Jews, which has created a
              > similar human destruction and displacement, (of Palestinians), which continues
              >
              > today. I realize that these peoples had no other place to go after their
              > liberation but...........
              >
              > I worked and lived in the Mid East for 20 years, witnessing the destruction of

              > Lebanon, the "Pearl of the Mediterranean" and other places there where
              >displaced
              >
              > Palestinians lived. These places were and are called "camps" but are cities
              > where these poor, starving peoples reside Some of my best friends were
              > displaced Palestinians, so I have "both sides of the story".
              >
              > I probably will not live long enough to see a Palestinian State but have long
              > prayed for their freedom. I have a good friend whose land in East Jerusalem
              >has
              >
              > been recently been confiscated. It had been in his family for over 1,000
              >years.
              >
              > It is indeed a sad time for all of them.
              >
              > Z Bohom,
              >
              > Vilo
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > ________________________________
              > From: "lkocik@..." <lkocik@...>
              > To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com
              > Sent: Wed, May 18, 2011 2:45:53 PM
              > Subject: Re: [Slovak-World] WW II in Slovakia
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > Vilo
              >
              > For once in my life I'm speechless. I never save emails but I printed this one
              >
              > out.
              >
              >
              > Thank you for sharing Vilo. I'll write again after I digest everything you
              > wrote. It's very powerful and moving.
              >
              >
              > Larry----- Original Message -----
              > From: "William C. Wormuth" <senzus@...>
              > To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com
              > Sent: Wednesday, May 18, 2011 12:12:27 AM
              > Subject: Re: [Slovak-World] WW II in Slovakia
              >
              > Larry,
              >
              > I have never read any articles or books which were complimentary toward the
              > forst Slovak republik. I had relatives and friends who lived in Slovakia
              >during
              >
              >
              > WWII.
              >
              > These people all related stories to me concerning the war and especially toward
              >
              > the end and after, when the first wave of Russians came through. None of these
              >
              > people were anti Jewish. They all had been proud that for the first time,
              > Slovaks were governing themselves and were complimentary of what the Government
              >
              > accomplished, especially on the infrastructure,such as regulating the Morava
              > river, which prevented floods, which were common, each year.
              >
              > The Old Film, Obchod na Korze, Shop on Main Street, was a propaganda film but
              >it
              >
              >
              > gives one a picture of what it might have been like before the war. In Kuty,
              > businesses were owned by Jews only and it had been that way since all of the
              > people were born.
              >
              > This was because the Jews were given the task of tax collecting, by the
              > Hungarian rulers. That way, the people would not think of them as "Thieves".
              > My Grand mother used to tell us, "The king took 50% and the Jews, 40%..There
              >was
              >
              >
              > no Slovak school, in the town but there was a Jewish one. Gramma was not anti

              > Jewish but wanted to give us a picture of her life then
              >
              > If you understand the "way it was", you might understand why the people were
              > apathetic about the roundup of those people and their "deportation". Our
              >people
              >
              >
              > had no idea that the Jews would be slaughtered and when they finally found out,
              >
              > they began hiding any Jews they knew about.
              >
              > One friend and his co-workers, hid a Jew in the office until the wars end. If

              > they were caught by the Germans, they would have been executed.
              >
              > The Hlinkova Garda was portrayed as some sort of SS troopers but they were the
              >
              > soldiers of the day and were responsible for rounding up Jews for deportation.

              >
              > By the time they found that the Jews were being executed, the Jews had already

              > gone away.
              >
              > Father Augustine Zan, was our assistant Pastor here. He had been a secretary
              >to
              >
              >
              > Monsignor Jozef Tiso. He was a good friend of mine in my High School years and
              >
              > told me many tales as we walked along country roads here.
              >
              > At the wars end, when the coimmunists were killing the goverment leaders, the
              > people hid father, in the bell tower, until they could devise a plan to smuggle
              >
              > him to Germany, where he was chaplain to Slovak escapees.
              >
              > The communists fabricated a picture of Father Zan, standing among bodies,
              > holding a pistol, as if he had killed all. They then forwarded the Photo to
              > many embassies. They then followed him to his town in Germany and the German
              > Government sent him to Rome. He was then sent to the Albany NY diocese.
              >
              > When I think of those days and what the Nazis did, I also remember the
              >suffering
              >
              >
              > of the millions of non-Jews who were also killed. These included people of
              >many
              >
              >
              > nations as well as many who aged, infirm, mental etc. They also were
              > slaughtering Gypsies and homosexuals.
              >
              > I spent 4 years in the USAF but only aafter the Korean war ended so I did not
              > experience war. However, my Mother's sister, was an Army nurse and
              >participated
              >
              >
              > in the second wave at Normandy. She proceeded with the forces, all the way to

              > Vienna. Her stories were very shocking and thank God she survived.
              >
              > Books concerning the experience of Jews, are numerous. The Israeli Government
              > has been complimentary toward the Slovak people and their actions during those

              > times.
              >
              > As the German Army was leaving, some of them knocked on the doors and warned
              >the
              >
              >
              > people to hide their young daughters and any valuables they had because the
              > Russians were coming. They knew that this wave were mostly uneducated mongols

              > that were pillaging and raping .
              >
              > My cousins Grandmother was raped, on her death bed.!
              >
              > All of these stories and memories makes me appreciate how far our people have
              > come and how adaptive they have been to the changes in their lives.
              >
              > Z Bohom,
              >
              > Vilo
              >
              > ________________________________
              > From: "lkocik@..." <lkocik@...>
              > To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com
              > Sent: Wed, May 18, 2011 12:32:04 AM
              > Subject: Re: [Slovak-World] WW II in Slovakia
              >
              >
              >
              > Ron
              >
              > Thank you for the recommendation. I will look into the book.
              >
              > I do realize everything I find will not be pleasant, but I want to know the
              > truth. I also understand people do what they have to just to survive. I'm a
              > veteran of a foriegn war, but it was "over there" and after I served my time I

              > got to come home. I can't begin to imagine what atrocities the Eastern
              >Europeans
              >
              >
              > civilians had to suffer in WW2, so I have no right to judge . Knowing myself
              >for
              >
              >
              > as long as I have, I have to wonder if I would have been able to stand up and
              >be
              >
              >
              > counted among what the J ews called "the rightous". I would hope I could, but
              >I
              >
              >
              > have to be honest and say probably not.
              >
              > With the communists, nazis, Hungarians and even Moravians...was there ever
              >
              > a time in history when the Slovaks weren't under someone's thumb?
              >
              > Larry---- Original Message -----
              > From: "Ron" <amiak27@...>
              > To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com
              > Sent: Tuesday, May 17, 2011 4:11:29 PM
              > Subject: [Slovak-World] WW II in Slovakia
              >
              > Larry,
              >
              > You said "... to understand the role of Slovaks in WW2"
              >
              > War topics get way too much attention, but the public demands it. I burned out
              >
              > on wars a long time ago, but can recommend a book I recently discovered, one
              > that presents Slovaks and Poles and Jewish victims at Auschwitz without the
              > finger pointing that has become de rigueur.
              >
              > "Escape from Hell: The True Story of the Auschwitz Protocol
              > by Alfred Wetzler"
              >
              > The bad guys are the fascists (mostly German, but also some Poles and Slovaks),
              >
              > and the good guys are the Resistance, the communists (then our allies and
              > certifiably anti-fascist). Heroic people presented to us are taken from the
              > Jewish, the Poles and the Slovaks.
              >
              > The book was published during the communist times in 1963 and was only
              > translated from the Slovak into English in 2007.
              >
              > If the topic interests you then certainly it is a book to be recommended.
              > Returning to your wish to understand, it also presents an interesting window
              >on
              >
              >
              > everyday life and values of our peoples back then.
              >
              > Ron
              > P.S. The escape route from Auschwitz was across the mountains to Cadsa in NW
              > Slovakia.
              >
              > Escape from Hell: The True Story of the Auschwitz Protocol
              > by Alfred Wetzler
              > ISBN 1-84545-183-X or hardback ISBN 978-1-84545-183-7
              >
              >
              >
              > --- In Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com, lkocik@ wrote:
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > Allen
              > >
              > > Â About your web site www.52insk.com
              > >
              > > Â Very insightful. I've tried for years to understand the role of Slovaks in
              >
              > >WW2, but being such a sensitive subject, it was hard to find such an objective
              >
              > >explanation. I also share your thoughts on neo-nazi types in present day
              > >Bratislava, which of course applies to their ilk everywhere.
              > >
              > > Thank you Allen; I put your site on my "favorite places".
              > >
              > > Larry Kocik
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
              >
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >




              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • LongJohn Wayne
              Thank you, Vilko. For sharing your life & stories here. ... From: William C. Wormuth Subject: Re: [Slovak-World] Re: WW II in Slovakia To:
              Message 6 of 11 , Jun 2, 2011
              • 0 Attachment
                Thank you, Vilko.

                For sharing your life & stories here.

                --- On Thu, 5/19/11, William C. Wormuth <senzus@...> wrote:

                From: William C. Wormuth <senzus@...>
                Subject: Re: [Slovak-World] Re: WW II in Slovakia
                To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com
                Date: Thursday, May 19, 2011, 6:09 PM
















                 









                Allen,



                Thank you for the compliment.



                Z Bohom,



                Vilo



                ________________________________

                From: allanstevo <allanstevo@...>

                To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com

                Sent: Thu, May 19, 2011 12:45:48 PM

                Subject: [Slovak-World] Re: WW II in Slovakia



                Vilo,

                I agree with Larry. That's a strong summary of controversial opinions very well

                presented. Thank you.

                Allan

                www.52inSk.com



                --- In Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com, "William C. Wormuth" <senzus@...> wrote:

                >

                > Ahoj Larry,

                >

                > Thanks for the complement. I was hesitant to respond because I did not want to

                >

                > start "war" over this. I never wanted our people to be thought of as nazi.

                > They were no more nazi than our own and the British Governments, who did

                >nothing

                >

                > when this was happening and only responding when the damage was already done.

                >

                > I have always believed that their "guilt" over allowing the massacers was the

                > reason for giving away Palestinian lands to the Jews, which has created a

                > similar human destruction and displacement, (of Palestinians), which continues

                >

                > today. I realize that these peoples had no other place to go after their

                > liberation but...........

                >

                > I worked and lived in the Mid East for 20 years, witnessing the destruction of



                > Lebanon, the "Pearl of the Mediterranean" and other places there where

                >displaced

                >

                > Palestinians lived. These places were and are called "camps" but are cities

                > where these poor, starving peoples reside Some of my best friends were

                > displaced Palestinians, so I have "both sides of the story".

                >

                > I probably will not live long enough to see a Palestinian State but have long

                > prayed for their freedom. I have a good friend whose land in East Jerusalem

                >has

                >

                > been recently been confiscated. It had been in his family for over 1,000

                >years.

                >

                > It is indeed a sad time for all of them.

                >

                > Z Bohom,

                >

                > Vilo

                >

                >

                >

                >

                >

                > ________________________________

                > From: "lkocik@..." <lkocik@...>

                > To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com

                > Sent: Wed, May 18, 2011 2:45:53 PM

                > Subject: Re: [Slovak-World] WW II in Slovakia

                >

                >

                >

                >

                > Vilo

                >

                > For once in my life I'm speechless. I never save emails but I printed this one

                >

                > out.

                >

                >

                > Thank you for sharing Vilo. I'll write again after I digest everything you

                > wrote. It's very powerful and moving.

                >

                >

                > Larry----- Original Message -----

                > From: "William C. Wormuth" <senzus@...>

                > To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com

                > Sent: Wednesday, May 18, 2011 12:12:27 AM

                > Subject: Re: [Slovak-World] WW II in Slovakia

                >

                > Larry,

                >

                > I have never read any articles or books which were complimentary toward the

                > forst Slovak republik. I had relatives and friends who lived in Slovakia

                >during

                >

                >

                > WWII.

                >

                > These people all related stories to me concerning the war and especially toward

                >

                > the end and after, when the first wave of Russians came through. None of these

                >

                > people were anti Jewish. They all had been proud that for the first time,

                > Slovaks were governing themselves and were complimentary of what the Government

                >

                > accomplished, especially on the infrastructure,such as regulating the Morava

                > river, which prevented floods, which were common, each year.

                >

                > The Old Film, Obchod na Korze, Shop on Main Street, was a propaganda film but

                >it

                >

                >

                > gives one a picture of what it might have been like before the war. In Kuty,

                > businesses were owned by Jews only and it had been that way since all of the

                > people were born.

                >

                > This was because the Jews were given the task of tax collecting, by the

                > Hungarian rulers. That way, the people would not think of them as "Thieves".

                > My Grand mother used to tell us, "The king took 50% and the Jews, 40%..There

                >was

                >

                >

                > no Slovak school, in the town but there was a Jewish one. Gramma was not anti



                > Jewish but wanted to give us a picture of her life then

                >

                > If you understand the "way it was", you might understand why the people were

                > apathetic about the roundup of those people and their "deportation". Our

                >people

                >

                >

                > had no idea that the Jews would be slaughtered and when they finally found out,

                >

                > they began hiding any Jews they knew about.

                >

                > One friend and his co-workers, hid a Jew in the office until the wars end. If



                > they were caught by the Germans, they would have been executed.

                >

                > The Hlinkova Garda was portrayed as some sort of SS troopers but they were the

                >

                > soldiers of the day and were responsible for rounding up Jews for deportation.



                >

                > By the time they found that the Jews were being executed, the Jews had already



                > gone away.

                >

                > Father Augustine Zan, was our assistant Pastor here. He had been a secretary

                >to

                >

                >

                > Monsignor Jozef Tiso. He was a good friend of mine in my High School years and

                >

                > told me many tales as we walked along country roads here.

                >

                > At the wars end, when the coimmunists were killing the goverment leaders, the

                > people hid father, in the bell tower, until they could devise a plan to smuggle

                >

                > him to Germany, where he was chaplain to Slovak escapees.

                >

                > The communists fabricated a picture of Father Zan, standing among bodies,

                > holding a pistol, as if he had killed all. They then forwarded the Photo to

                > many embassies. They then followed him to his town in Germany and the German

                > Government sent him to Rome. He was then sent to the Albany NY diocese.

                >

                > When I think of those days and what the Nazis did, I also remember the

                >suffering

                >

                >

                > of the millions of non-Jews who were also killed. These included people of

                >many

                >

                >

                > nations as well as many who aged, infirm, mental etc. They also were

                > slaughtering Gypsies and homosexuals.

                >

                > I spent 4 years in the USAF but only aafter the Korean war ended so I did not

                > experience war. However, my Mother's sister, was an Army nurse and

                >participated

                >

                >

                > in the second wave at Normandy. She proceeded with the forces, all the way to



                > Vienna. Her stories were very shocking and thank God she survived.

                >

                > Books concerning the experience of Jews, are numerous. The Israeli Government

                > has been complimentary toward the Slovak people and their actions during those



                > times.

                >

                > As the German Army was leaving, some of them knocked on the doors and warned

                >the

                >

                >

                > people to hide their young daughters and any valuables they had because the

                > Russians were coming. They knew that this wave were mostly uneducated mongols



                > that were pillaging and raping .

                >

                > My cousins Grandmother was raped, on her death bed.!

                >

                > All of these stories and memories makes me appreciate how far our people have

                > come and how adaptive they have been to the changes in their lives.

                >

                > Z Bohom,

                >

                > Vilo

                >

                > ________________________________

                > From: "lkocik@..." <lkocik@...>

                > To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com

                > Sent: Wed, May 18, 2011 12:32:04 AM

                > Subject: Re: [Slovak-World] WW II in Slovakia

                >

                >

                >

                > Ron

                >

                > Thank you for the recommendation. I will look into the book.

                >

                > I do realize everything I find will not be pleasant, but I want to know the

                > truth. I also understand people do what they have to just to survive. I'm a

                > veteran of a foriegn war, but it was "over there" and after I served my time I



                > got to come home. I can't begin to imagine what atrocities the Eastern

                >Europeans

                >

                >

                > civilians had to suffer in WW2, so I have no right to judge . Knowing myself

                >for

                >

                >

                > as long as I have, I have to wonder if I would have been able to stand up and

                >be

                >

                >

                > counted among what the J ews called "the rightous". I would hope I could, but

                >I

                >

                >

                > have to be honest and say probably not.

                >

                > With the communists, nazis, Hungarians and even Moravians...was there ever

                >

                > a time in history when the Slovaks weren't under someone's thumb?

                >

                > Larry---- Original Message -----

                > From: "Ron" <amiak27@...>

                > To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com

                > Sent: Tuesday, May 17, 2011 4:11:29 PM

                > Subject: [Slovak-World] WW II in Slovakia

                >

                > Larry,

                >

                > You said "... to understand the role of Slovaks in WW2"

                >

                > War topics get way too much attention, but the public demands it. I burned out

                >

                > on wars a long time ago, but can recommend a book I recently discovered, one

                > that presents Slovaks and Poles and Jewish victims at Auschwitz without the

                > finger pointing that has become de rigueur.

                >

                > "Escape from Hell: The True Story of the Auschwitz Protocol

                > by Alfred Wetzler"

                >

                > The bad guys are the fascists (mostly German, but also some Poles and Slovaks),

                >

                > and the good guys are the Resistance, the communists (then our allies and

                > certifiably anti-fascist). Heroic people presented to us are taken from the

                > Jewish, the Poles and the Slovaks.

                >

                > The book was published during the communist times in 1963 and was only

                > translated from the Slovak into English in 2007.

                >

                > If the topic interests you then certainly it is a book to be recommended.

                > Returning to your wish to understand, it also presents an interesting window

                >on

                >

                >

                > everyday life and values of our peoples back then.

                >

                > Ron

                > P.S. The escape route from Auschwitz was across the mountains to Cadsa in NW

                > Slovakia.

                >

                > Escape from Hell: The True Story of the Auschwitz Protocol

                > by Alfred Wetzler

                > ISBN 1-84545-183-X or hardback ISBN 978-1-84545-183-7

                >

                >

                >

                > --- In Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com, lkocik@ wrote:

                > >

                > >

                > >

                > > Allen

                > >

                > > Â About your web site www.52insk.com

                > >

                > > Â Very insightful. I've tried for years to understand the role of Slovaks in

                >

                > >WW2, but being such a sensitive subject, it was hard to find such an objective

                >

                > >explanation. I also share your thoughts on neo-nazi types in present day

                > >Bratislava, which of course applies to their ilk everywhere.

                > >

                > > Thank you Allen; I put your site on my "favorite places".

                > >

                > > Larry Kocik

                >

                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                >

                >

                >

                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                >

                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                >

                >

                >

                >

                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                >



                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



























                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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