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Traditional agriculture--64

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  • Fedor, Helen
    Before we get to our regularly scheduled text, I learned a fun, somewhat-related fact yesterday. In a NYC guidebook (we re going up this weekend, so there ll
    Message 1 of 7 , Sep 1, 2010
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      Before we get to our regularly scheduled text, I learned a fun, somewhat-related fact yesterday. In a NYC guidebook (we're going up this weekend, so there'll be no TA text on Friday and Monday), I read that the original building where the Tavern On the Green restaurant was located (in Central Park, overlooking the Sheep Meadow) was the sheepfold. Now back to TA.



      The basic building in a salas~ was the shelter for the shepherds (koliba, cottage), which also served for processing and storing milk products. [Interesting aside: I read elsewhere that salas~ is a Turkish word of Tatar derivation.] The oldest cottages had just one room, however ethnological sources show their development into a two-room form.

      The front or entry part served as a dwelling place for the bac~a (head shepherd) and the shepherds, for the preparation of food and the processing of milk products, and as the site of an open-air ["open," with no damper?] fireplace (vatra) with a swinging handle on which to hang a kettle [?? < http://petticoatsandpistols.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/07/hhcrane-early-oven.gif >].

      Bedding or benches for sleeping were placed around the fireplace. In the back part (koma'rik komora) of the cottage, finished milk products and the vessels needed for their preparation were stored. Usually, a shelf for drying the cheese (podis~iar) was also placed here. The cottage was built as a low, timbered chalet and was usually not portable, in contrast to the other parts of the salas~.

      Other shepherds used to sleep in small shelters (kolibka, strez~iaren~) built next to the sheepfold. Similar one-room kolibky (huts) were also built for the herdsmen of the non-bearing cows (jaloviaren~, jaloviarka) and for the horse herdsmen.


      H
      All opinions and asides my own


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • votrubam
      ... Not a fireplace -- a fire ring (occasionally with features of a fire pit). So a cauldron (sometimes a kettle) over it makes sense, doesn t it. This is
      Message 2 of 7 , Sep 1, 2010
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        > the site of an open-air ["open," with no damper?] fireplace
        > (vatra) with a swinging handle on which to hang a kettle [??

        Not a "fireplace" -- a fire ring (occasionally with features of a fire pit). So a cauldron (sometimes a kettle) over it makes sense, doesn't it. This is the inside of a salas in the Romanian Carpathians today:

        <http://tinyurl.com/25x8f5j>

        The smoke from the open fire would leave the room through cracks in the wooden ceiling-roof and help make the ostiepoks (smoked sheep cheese) hung up there, and sometimes smoked meat products if the shepherds had the ingredients for them.

        And not a vatra, that was a fire/bonfire in the open. It was simply ohen ("fire") inside the salas chalet.


        Martin
      • Fedor, Helen
        That s why the book s use of confused me. Thanks for the explanation and the photo. H All opinions my own (BTW, I don t add this post-signature line
        Message 3 of 7 , Sep 1, 2010
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          That's why the book's use of < vatra > confused me. Thanks for the explanation and the photo.

          H
          All opinions my own
          (BTW, I don't add this post-signature line to be annoying. The Library Powers That Be have told us that anytime we post something on a listserve using an LC address, we have to make clear that we're not speaking officially for LC. The phrase is a formula that many staff members use.)

          From: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of votrubam
          Sent: Wednesday, September 01, 2010 3:49 PM
          To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: [Slovak-World] Re: Traditional agriculture--64



          > the site of an open-air ["open," with no damper?] fireplace
          > (vatra) with a swinging handle on which to hang a kettle [??

          Not a "fireplace" -- a fire ring (occasionally with features of a fire pit). So a cauldron (sometimes a kettle) over it makes sense, doesn't it. This is the inside of a salas in the Romanian Carpathians today:

          <http://tinyurl.com/25x8f5j>

          The smoke from the open fire would leave the room through cracks in the wooden ceiling-roof and help make the ostiepoks (smoked sheep cheese) hung up there, and sometimes smoked meat products if the shepherds had the ingredients for them.

          And not a vatra, that was a fire/bonfire in the open. It was simply ohen ("fire") inside the salas chalet.

          Martin



          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Lubos Brieda
          Inside of a salas near Banska Bystrica http://www.iamlubos.com/travel/sib/pics3/214.jpg and http://www.iamlubos.com/travel/sib/pics3/215.jpg The second photo
          Message 4 of 7 , Sep 1, 2010
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            Inside of a salas near Banska Bystrica
            http://www.iamlubos.com/travel/sib/pics3/214.jpg
            and
            http://www.iamlubos.com/travel/sib/pics3/215.jpg

            The second photo shows ostiepky getting smoked as Martin mentioned
            -- Lubos Brieda --
            Slovak recipes: www.slovakcooking.com
            hikes and travel: www.iamlubos.com





            ________________________________
            From: "Fedor, Helen" <hfed@...>
            To: "Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com" <Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com>
            Sent: Wed, September 1, 2010 4:54:12 PM
            Subject: RE: [Slovak-World] Re: Traditional agriculture--64

            That's why the book's use of < vatra > confused me. Thanks for the explanation
            and the photo.

            H
            All opinions my own
            (BTW, I don't add this post-signature line to be annoying. The Library Powers
            That Be have told us that anytime we post something on a listserve using an LC
            address, we have to make clear that we're not speaking officially for LC. The
            phrase is a formula that many staff members use.)

            From: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com] On
            Behalf Of votrubam
            Sent: Wednesday, September 01, 2010 3:49 PM
            To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: [Slovak-World] Re: Traditional agriculture--64



            > the site of an open-air ["open," with no damper?] fireplace
            > (vatra) with a swinging handle on which to hang a kettle [??

            Not a "fireplace" -- a fire ring (occasionally with features of a fire pit). So
            a cauldron (sometimes a kettle) over it makes sense, doesn't it. This is the
            inside of a salas in the Romanian Carpathians today:

            <http://tinyurl.com/25x8f5j>

            The smoke from the open fire would leave the room through cracks in the wooden
            ceiling-roof and help make the ostiepoks (smoked sheep cheese) hung up there,
            and sometimes smoked meat products if the shepherds had the ingredients for
            them.

            And not a vatra, that was a fire/bonfire in the open. It was simply ohen
            ("fire") inside the salas chalet.

            Martin



            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



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            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • votrubam
            ... Of course, Helen, and recall what they thought biciar meant, etc., etc., etc. Quite unfortunate for ambitious historical ethnologist to be so ill
            Message 5 of 7 , Sep 1, 2010
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              > That's why the book's use of <vatra> confused me.

              Of course, Helen, and recall what they thought "biciar" meant, etc., etc., etc. Quite unfortunate for ambitious historical ethnologist to be so ill informed so often and publish it all (not to mention the "translation").


              <http://www.iamlubos.com/travel/sib/pics3/214.jpg>

              How modern, with a tiled floor and all. Very useful pics, Lubos, great to see how things have developed.


              Martin
            • Lubos Brieda
              There are few more photos at http://www.iamlubos.com/travel/sib/sib3.php including a shot from the outside and one with zincica all over my pants.
              Message 6 of 7 , Sep 1, 2010
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                There are few more photos
                at http://www.iamlubos.com/travel/sib/sib3.php including a shot from the outside
                and one with zincica all over my pants. Unfortunately this salas burned down not
                too long after this picture was taken. No clue if it got rebuilt.
                -- Lubos Brieda --
                Slovak recipes: www.slovakcooking.com
                hikes and travel: www.iamlubos.com





                ________________________________
                From: votrubam <votrubam@...>
                To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com
                Sent: Wed, September 1, 2010 9:07:05 PM
                Subject: [Slovak-World] Re: Traditional agriculture--64

                > That's why the book's use of <vatra> confused me.

                Of course, Helen, and recall what they thought "biciar" meant, etc., etc., etc.
                Quite unfortunate for ambitious historical ethnologist to be so ill informed so
                often and publish it all (not to mention the "translation").


                <http://www.iamlubos.com/travel/sib/pics3/214.jpg>

                How modern, with a tiled floor and all. Very useful pics, Lubos, great to see
                how things have developed.


                Martin




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                Yahoo! Groups Links






                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • nhasior@aol.com
                Hi Helen, All opinions are my own caught my eye the first time something you posted displayed it. I thought wow, if we all felt that way, there would be
                Message 7 of 7 , Sep 2, 2010
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                  Hi Helen,
                  "All opinions are my own" caught my eye the first time something you
                  posted displayed it. I thought "wow, if we all felt that way, there would be
                  peace in the world" That little phrase is not annoying at all, great thought.
                  Reen


                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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