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Re: [Slovak-World] Re: Traditional agriculture--1

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  • Milan Olle
    Where can I find this article from the University College London? This article could put many arguments I ve been having to rest.   Milan ... From: votrubam
    Message 1 of 11 , May 10, 2010
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      Where can I find this article from the University College London? This article could put many arguments I've been having to rest.
       
      Milan

      --- On Sun, 5/9/10, votrubam <votrubam@...> wrote:


      From: votrubam <votrubam@...>
      Subject: [Slovak-World] Re: Traditional agriculture--1
      To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com
      Received: Sunday, May 9, 2010, 9:25 PM


       



      > what I was reading and what Helen was reading is an earlier
      > time of tribes and more ancient peoples that settled the area.

      There are references to Celtic tribes cropping up here and there all over Europe for centuries in the more distant past, anonymous. The trouble with that is that there are no records of language, of course, so accepting that whatever tribe mentioned in an old Greek or Roman-Latin document was indeed "Celtic" would need a lot of proof. Many of such designations are probably a result of the Greeks and Romans being rather generous with the label "Celt" (in the sense of "the guys out there") and the Central European historians accepting that without question in the 18th-19th centuries.

      The question is: if indeed the Celts were all over Europe before the current era, how come they evaporated so suddenly? How come that there suddenly are all kinds of languages all over Europe by the middle of the first millennium with hardly any record of massive migrations or a trace of the Celts except at the north-western fringes of the continent?

      As to agriculture- -husbandry, an article by three geneticists from University College London brought additional evidence last year. The gene that enables people to digest cow milk through adulthood appeared in and spread from modern south-western Slovakia and north-western Hungary about 7.5 thousand years ago.

      Martin










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    • CurtB
      Milan, It is a free online article appearing in PLoS Computational Biology. Title is Origins of lactase persistence in Europe . by Yuval Itan, and others.
      Message 2 of 11 , May 10, 2010
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        Milan,
        It is a free online article appearing in PLoS Computational Biology. Title is "Origins of lactase persistence in Europe". by Yuval Itan, and others.

        Just google the title as I have given it in quotes, and it will be the second or third item in the list.,

        Curt B.


        --- In Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com, Milan Olle <coolkeytool@...> wrote:
        >
        > Where can I find this article from the University College London? This article could put many arguments I've been having to rest.
        >  
        > Milan
        >
        > --- On Sun, 5/9/10, votrubam <votrubam@...> wrote:
        >
        >
        > From: votrubam <votrubam@...>
        > Subject: [Slovak-World] Re: Traditional agriculture--1
        > To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com
        > Received: Sunday, May 9, 2010, 9:25 PM
        >
        >
        >  
        >
        >
        >
        > > what I was reading and what Helen was reading is an earlier
        > > time of tribes and more ancient peoples that settled the area.
        >
        > There are references to Celtic tribes cropping up here and there all over Europe for centuries in the more distant past, anonymous. The trouble with that is that there are no records of language, of course, so accepting that whatever tribe mentioned in an old Greek or Roman-Latin document was indeed "Celtic" would need a lot of proof. Many of such designations are probably a result of the Greeks and Romans being rather generous with the label "Celt" (in the sense of "the guys out there") and the Central European historians accepting that without question in the 18th-19th centuries.
        >
        > The question is: if indeed the Celts were all over Europe before the current era, how come they evaporated so suddenly? How come that there suddenly are all kinds of languages all over Europe by the middle of the first millennium with hardly any record of massive migrations or a trace of the Celts except at the north-western fringes of the continent?
        >
        > As to agriculture- -husbandry, an article by three geneticists from University College London brought additional evidence last year. The gene that enables people to digest cow milk through adulthood appeared in and spread from modern south-western Slovakia and north-western Hungary about 7.5 thousand years ago.
        >
        > Martin
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
      • joy2002cjm
        Martin thank you for this information. Your questions are interesting and info is great. How do you know all this? Carolyn
        Message 3 of 11 , May 10, 2010
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          Martin thank you for this information. Your questions are interesting and info is great. How do you know all this?

          Carolyn
        • James Dubelko
          Short comment on the Illyrians. They are one of the oldest ethnic groups in Europe. Today s Albanians claim to be their descendants. Jim Dubelko ...
          Message 4 of 11 , May 11, 2010
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            Short comment on the Illyrians. They are one of the oldest ethnic groups in
            Europe. Today's Albanians claim to be their descendants.

            Jim Dubelko

            On Sat, May 8, 2010 at 11:27 AM, joy2002cjm <joy2002cjm@...> wrote:

            >
            >
            > I find this interesting.... it implies the archeological origins of the
            > slovak people. Where did our people come from? How did they settle in
            > Slovakia? In trying to understand, I went to my favorite website, wikipedia
            > and looked up celts
            >
            > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Celts and illyrians
            >
            > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illyrians
            >
            > and it appears to be just as you said, the celts from the north and the
            > illyrains from the south mixed cultures and developed an agrarian society.
            > It seems that the celts started in Austria and moved to britain. I have only
            > been familiar with celts as far as british history goes. This quote is
            > interesting
            >
            > "Celtic river-names are found in great numbers around the upper reaches of
            > the Danube and Rhine, which led many Celtic scholars to place the
            > ethnogenesis of the Celts in this area."
            >
            > The illyrians are less clear to me. They seem to be more a part of croatia
            > and the balkans. In any case, it is all quite interesting to think about how
            > we all developed into a national group of people. Maybe someone out there
            > knows more??
            >
            > Thank you Helen!
            >
            > --- In Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com <Slovak-World%40yahoogroups.com>,
            > "Helen Fedor" <hfed@...> wrote:
            > >
            > > I got a request to start fixing up and sending out the 1st chapter in
            > > _Slovakia: European Contexts of the Folk Culture_, which is Traditional
            > > Agriculture, just as I'd done with the food chapter. I hope this will
            > > start up some discussions.
            > >
            > > H
            > > All opinions my own
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > TRADITIONAL AGRICULTURE
            > >
            > > Growing crops and rearing livestock are useful[?] activities, but ones
            > > that are not innate in human beings, thus making them part of human
            > > culture. Agriculture was very important to the population that had
            > > lived for centuries on the territory of present-day Slovakia; it was
            > > their main occupation and accounted for a substantial part of their
            > > output.
            > >
            > > From an ethnological point of view, agriculture can be split into two
            > > basic subjects: 1) an examination of agriculture���s development,
            > > regional and ethnic differences in its technology, its meaning[?], and
            > > the materials used; and 2) an examination of the social component��"the
            > > people who worked at agriculture during its various developmental
            > > stages, how work was organized, the different ways of applying what had
            > > been learned (how older experiences were assimilated), as well as the
            > > relationships that resulted from this agricultural background.
            > >
            > >
            > > ���The Development of Slovak Agriculture��
            > >
            > > In the 6th century, Slavs started to play a role in European history.
            > > Archeological discoveries of agricultural tools show evidence that, at
            > > that time, Europe was among the most agriculturally developed regions.
            > > This was mainly due to the local[?] Celts, whose culture was also
            > > influenced by the greater Celtic civilization that covered a large area,
            > > from present-day Great Britain through central Europe, and as far as
            > > Transcarpathian Ukraine.
            > >
            > > At almost the same time, another advanced agricultural culture, that of
            > > the Illyrians, existed in the northern Balkans, southern Hungary, and
            > > parts of Austria. Archeological strata show that this culture
            > > intermingled with the Celtic culture and created the conditions under
            > > which agriculture advanced in all of central Europe. [Did I get this
            > > right? The original sentence was hideously convoluted.] Agriculture in
            > > the Roman provinces, where all known grains were grown (mainly varieties
            > > of wheat, barley, millet, and occasionally oats), also profited from
            > > this. It is interesting that, at that time, agriculture on the
            > > territory of today���s Slovakia was more advanced than in the
            > > neighboring territories to the west that were populated by Germans; this
            > > was because the Slovak territory was in direct contact with the Roman
            > > provinces.
            > >
            >
            >
            >


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