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Traditional agriculture--1

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  • Helen Fedor
    I got a request to start fixing up and sending out the 1st chapter in _Slovakia: European Contexts of the Folk Culture_, which is Traditional Agriculture, just
    Message 1 of 11 , May 7, 2010
      I got a request to start fixing up and sending out the 1st chapter in
      _Slovakia: European Contexts of the Folk Culture_, which is Traditional
      Agriculture, just as I'd done with the food chapter. I hope this will
      start up some discussions.

      H
      All opinions my own




      TRADITIONAL AGRICULTURE

      Growing crops and rearing livestock are useful[?] activities, but ones
      that are not innate in human beings, thus making them part of human
      culture. Agriculture was very important to the population that had
      lived for centuries on the territory of present-day Slovakia; it was
      their main occupation and accounted for a substantial part of their
      output.

      From an ethnological point of view, agriculture can be split into two
      basic subjects: 1) an examination of agriculture’s development,
      regional and ethnic differences in its technology, its meaning[?], and
      the materials used; and 2) an examination of the social component–the
      people who worked at agriculture during its various developmental
      stages, how work was organized, the different ways of applying what had
      been learned (how older experiences were assimilated), as well as the
      relationships that resulted from this agricultural background.


      “The Development of Slovak Agriculture”

      In the 6th century, Slavs started to play a role in European history.
      Archeological discoveries of agricultural tools show evidence that, at
      that time, Europe was among the most agriculturally developed regions.
      This was mainly due to the local[?] Celts, whose culture was also
      influenced by the greater Celtic civilization that covered a large area,
      from present-day Great Britain through central Europe, and as far as
      Transcarpathian Ukraine.

      At almost the same time, another advanced agricultural culture, that of
      the Illyrians, existed in the northern Balkans, southern Hungary, and
      parts of Austria. Archeological strata show that this culture
      intermingled with the Celtic culture and created the conditions under
      which agriculture advanced in all of central Europe. [Did I get this
      right? The original sentence was hideously convoluted.] Agriculture in
      the Roman provinces, where all known grains were grown (mainly varieties
      of wheat, barley, millet, and occasionally oats), also profited from
      this. It is interesting that, at that time, agriculture on the
      territory of today’s Slovakia was more advanced than in the
      neighboring territories to the west that were populated by Germans; this
      was because the Slovak territory was in direct contact with the Roman
      provinces.
    • joy2002cjm
      I find this interesting.... it implies the archeological origins of the slovak people. Where did our people come from? How did they settle in Slovakia? In
      Message 2 of 11 , May 8, 2010
        I find this interesting.... it implies the archeological origins of the slovak people. Where did our people come from? How did they settle in Slovakia? In trying to understand, I went to my favorite website, wikipedia and looked up celts

        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Celts and illyrians

        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illyrians

        and it appears to be just as you said, the celts from the north and the illyrains from the south mixed cultures and developed an agrarian society. It seems that the celts started in Austria and moved to britain. I have only been familiar with celts as far as british history goes. This quote is interesting

        "Celtic river-names are found in great numbers around the upper reaches of the Danube and Rhine, which led many Celtic scholars to place the ethnogenesis of the Celts in this area."

        The illyrians are less clear to me. They seem to be more a part of croatia and the balkans. In any case, it is all quite interesting to think about how we all developed into a national group of people. Maybe someone out there knows more??

        Thank you Helen!




        --- In Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com, "Helen Fedor" <hfed@...> wrote:
        >
        > I got a request to start fixing up and sending out the 1st chapter in
        > _Slovakia: European Contexts of the Folk Culture_, which is Traditional
        > Agriculture, just as I'd done with the food chapter. I hope this will
        > start up some discussions.
        >
        > H
        > All opinions my own
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > TRADITIONAL AGRICULTURE
        >
        > Growing crops and rearing livestock are useful[?] activities, but ones
        > that are not innate in human beings, thus making them part of human
        > culture. Agriculture was very important to the population that had
        > lived for centuries on the territory of present-day Slovakia; it was
        > their main occupation and accounted for a substantial part of their
        > output.
        >
        > From an ethnological point of view, agriculture can be split into two
        > basic subjects: 1) an examination of agriculture’s development,
        > regional and ethnic differences in its technology, its meaning[?], and
        > the materials used; and 2) an examination of the social componentâ€"the
        > people who worked at agriculture during its various developmental
        > stages, how work was organized, the different ways of applying what had
        > been learned (how older experiences were assimilated), as well as the
        > relationships that resulted from this agricultural background.
        >
        >
        > “The Development of Slovak Agriculture”
        >
        > In the 6th century, Slavs started to play a role in European history.
        > Archeological discoveries of agricultural tools show evidence that, at
        > that time, Europe was among the most agriculturally developed regions.
        > This was mainly due to the local[?] Celts, whose culture was also
        > influenced by the greater Celtic civilization that covered a large area,
        > from present-day Great Britain through central Europe, and as far as
        > Transcarpathian Ukraine.
        >
        > At almost the same time, another advanced agricultural culture, that of
        > the Illyrians, existed in the northern Balkans, southern Hungary, and
        > parts of Austria. Archeological strata show that this culture
        > intermingled with the Celtic culture and created the conditions under
        > which agriculture advanced in all of central Europe. [Did I get this
        > right? The original sentence was hideously convoluted.] Agriculture in
        > the Roman provinces, where all known grains were grown (mainly varieties
        > of wheat, barley, millet, and occasionally oats), also profited from
        > this. It is interesting that, at that time, agriculture on the
        > territory of today’s Slovakia was more advanced than in the
        > neighboring territories to the west that were populated by Germans; this
        > was because the Slovak territory was in direct contact with the Roman
        > provinces.
        >
      • votrubam
        ... Brief accounts: Migration: First country:
        Message 3 of 11 , May 8, 2010
          > the slovak people. Where did our people come from? How did they
          > settle in Slovakia?

          Brief accounts:

          Migration:
          <http://www.pitt.edu/~votruba/qsonhist/slavicslovak.html>

          First country:
          <http://www.pitt.edu/~votruba/qsonhist/popes.html>

          Martin
        • Helen Fedor
          I m glad this seems to be of interest. The next few sections will be more focused on farming itself, but you ll have to wait, I m afraid. I m taking off
          Message 4 of 11 , May 8, 2010
            I'm glad this seems to be of interest. The next few sections will be
            more focused on farming itself, but you'll have to wait, I'm afraid.
            I'm taking off Monday and Tuesday to get my yard in order (always much
            more gardening to do than time in which to do it in the spring), but
            will get out the next installment of Traditional Agriculture on
            Wednesday, when I'm back at work.

            H
            All opinions my own



            >>> "joy2002cjm" <joy2002cjm@...> 05/08/10 11:28 AM >>>
            I find this interesting.... it implies the archeological origins of the
            slovak people. Where did our people come from? How did they settle in
            Slovakia? In trying to understand, I went to my favorite website,
            wikipedia and looked up celts

            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Celts and illyrians

            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illyrians

            and it appears to be just as you said, the celts from the north and the
            illyrains from the south mixed cultures and developed an agrarian
            society. It seems that the celts started in Austria and moved to
            britain. I have only been familiar with celts as far as british history
            goes. This quote is interesting

            "Celtic river-names are found in great numbers around the upper reaches
            of the Danube and Rhine, which led many Celtic scholars to place the
            ethnogenesis of the Celts in this area."

            The illyrians are less clear to me. They seem to be more a part of
            croatia and the balkans. In any case, it is all quite interesting to
            think about how we all developed into a national group of people. Maybe
            someone out there knows more??

            Thank you Helen!




            --- In Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com, "Helen Fedor" <hfed@...> wrote:
            >
            > I got a request to start fixing up and sending out the 1st chapter in
            > _Slovakia: European Contexts of the Folk Culture_, which is
            Traditional
            > Agriculture, just as I'd done with the food chapter. I hope this will
            > start up some discussions.
            >
            > H
            > All opinions my own
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > TRADITIONAL AGRICULTURE
            >
            > Growing crops and rearing livestock are useful[?] activities, but ones
            > that are not innate in human beings, thus making them part of human
            > culture. Agriculture was very important to the population that had
            > lived for centuries on the territory of present-day Slovakia; it was
            > their main occupation and accounted for a substantial part of their
            > output.
            >
            > From an ethnological point of view, agriculture can be split into two
            > basic subjects: 1) an examination of agriculture’s development,
            > regional and ethnic differences in its technology, its meaning[?], and
            > the materials used; and 2) an examination of the social
            componentâ€"the
            > people who worked at agriculture during its various developmental
            > stages, how work was organized, the different ways of applying what
            had
            > been learned (how older experiences were assimilated), as well as the
            > relationships that resulted from this agricultural background.
            >
            >
            > “The Development of Slovak Agricultureâ€
            >
            > In the 6th century, Slavs started to play a role in European history.
            > Archeological discoveries of agricultural tools show evidence that, at
            > that time, Europe was among the most agriculturally developed regions.

            > This was mainly due to the local[?] Celts, whose culture was also
            > influenced by the greater Celtic civilization that covered a large
            area,
            > from present-day Great Britain through central Europe, and as far as
            > Transcarpathian Ukraine.
            >
            > At almost the same time, another advanced agricultural culture, that
            of
            > the Illyrians, existed in the northern Balkans, southern Hungary, and
            > parts of Austria. Archeological strata show that this culture
            > intermingled with the Celtic culture and created the conditions under
            > which agriculture advanced in all of central Europe. [Did I get this
            > right? The original sentence was hideously convoluted.] Agriculture
            in
            > the Roman provinces, where all known grains were grown (mainly
            varieties
            > of wheat, barley, millet, and occasionally oats), also profited from
            > this.> territory of today’s Slovakia was more advanced than in the
            > neighboring territories to the west that were populated by Germans;
            this
            > was because the Slovak territory was in direct contact with the Roman
            > provinces.
            >
          • Nick Holcz
            ... I watched a documentary on the Celts apparently they originated from the steppes and moved into central Europe having a fairly sophisticated society, Good
            Message 5 of 11 , May 9, 2010
              At , you wrote:
              >
              >
              >I find this interesting....

              I watched a documentary on the Celts apparently they originated from
              the steppes and moved into central Europe having a fairly
              sophisticated society, Good quality metal jewellery was buried with
              the dead, obvious signs of ceremonial burials. They spread to
              Britain, mainly Scotland and Ireland.
              Red hair is a Celtic trait, both parents of a redhead need to have the gene.
              Lots more interesting stuff about them is worth looking for.

              Nick
            • joy2002cjm
              This was interesting Martin and I am glad to know of this site so I can learn more. I think what I was reading and what Helen was reading is an earlier time of
              Message 6 of 11 , May 9, 2010
                This was interesting Martin and I am glad to know of this site so I can learn more. I think what I was reading and what Helen was reading is an earlier time of tribes and more ancient peoples that settled the area. Most of what I saw was iron and bronze age information. Yet I know so little about it, I welcome any correction.

                --- In Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com, "votrubam" <votrubam@...> wrote:
                >
                > > the slovak people. Where did our people come from? How did they
                > > settle in Slovakia?
                >
                > Brief accounts:
                >
                > Migration:
                > <http://www.pitt.edu/~votruba/qsonhist/slavicslovak.html>
                >
                > First country:
                > <http://www.pitt.edu/~votruba/qsonhist/popes.html>
                >
                > Martin
                >
              • votrubam
                ... There are references to Celtic tribes cropping up here and there all over Europe for centuries in the more distant past, anonymous. The trouble with that
                Message 7 of 11 , May 9, 2010
                  > what I was reading and what Helen was reading is an earlier
                  > time of tribes and more ancient peoples that settled the area.

                  There are references to Celtic tribes cropping up here and there all over Europe for centuries in the more distant past, anonymous. The trouble with that is that there are no records of language, of course, so accepting that whatever tribe mentioned in an old Greek or Roman-Latin document was indeed "Celtic" would need a lot of proof. Many of such designations are probably a result of the Greeks and Romans being rather generous with the label "Celt" (in the sense of "the guys out there") and the Central European historians accepting that without question in the 18th-19th centuries.

                  The question is: if indeed the Celts were all over Europe before the current era, how come they evaporated so suddenly? How come that there suddenly are all kinds of languages all over Europe by the middle of the first millennium with hardly any record of massive migrations or a trace of the Celts except at the north-western fringes of the continent?

                  As to agriculture--husbandry, an article by three geneticists from University College London brought additional evidence last year. The gene that enables people to digest cow milk through adulthood appeared in and spread from modern south-western Slovakia and north-western Hungary about 7.5 thousand years ago.


                  Martin
                • Milan Olle
                  Where can I find this article from the University College London? This article could put many arguments I ve been having to rest.   Milan ... From: votrubam
                  Message 8 of 11 , May 10, 2010
                    Where can I find this article from the University College London? This article could put many arguments I've been having to rest.
                     
                    Milan

                    --- On Sun, 5/9/10, votrubam <votrubam@...> wrote:


                    From: votrubam <votrubam@...>
                    Subject: [Slovak-World] Re: Traditional agriculture--1
                    To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com
                    Received: Sunday, May 9, 2010, 9:25 PM


                     



                    > what I was reading and what Helen was reading is an earlier
                    > time of tribes and more ancient peoples that settled the area.

                    There are references to Celtic tribes cropping up here and there all over Europe for centuries in the more distant past, anonymous. The trouble with that is that there are no records of language, of course, so accepting that whatever tribe mentioned in an old Greek or Roman-Latin document was indeed "Celtic" would need a lot of proof. Many of such designations are probably a result of the Greeks and Romans being rather generous with the label "Celt" (in the sense of "the guys out there") and the Central European historians accepting that without question in the 18th-19th centuries.

                    The question is: if indeed the Celts were all over Europe before the current era, how come they evaporated so suddenly? How come that there suddenly are all kinds of languages all over Europe by the middle of the first millennium with hardly any record of massive migrations or a trace of the Celts except at the north-western fringes of the continent?

                    As to agriculture- -husbandry, an article by three geneticists from University College London brought additional evidence last year. The gene that enables people to digest cow milk through adulthood appeared in and spread from modern south-western Slovakia and north-western Hungary about 7.5 thousand years ago.

                    Martin










                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • CurtB
                    Milan, It is a free online article appearing in PLoS Computational Biology. Title is Origins of lactase persistence in Europe . by Yuval Itan, and others.
                    Message 9 of 11 , May 10, 2010
                      Milan,
                      It is a free online article appearing in PLoS Computational Biology. Title is "Origins of lactase persistence in Europe". by Yuval Itan, and others.

                      Just google the title as I have given it in quotes, and it will be the second or third item in the list.,

                      Curt B.


                      --- In Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com, Milan Olle <coolkeytool@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > Where can I find this article from the University College London? This article could put many arguments I've been having to rest.
                      >  
                      > Milan
                      >
                      > --- On Sun, 5/9/10, votrubam <votrubam@...> wrote:
                      >
                      >
                      > From: votrubam <votrubam@...>
                      > Subject: [Slovak-World] Re: Traditional agriculture--1
                      > To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com
                      > Received: Sunday, May 9, 2010, 9:25 PM
                      >
                      >
                      >  
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > > what I was reading and what Helen was reading is an earlier
                      > > time of tribes and more ancient peoples that settled the area.
                      >
                      > There are references to Celtic tribes cropping up here and there all over Europe for centuries in the more distant past, anonymous. The trouble with that is that there are no records of language, of course, so accepting that whatever tribe mentioned in an old Greek or Roman-Latin document was indeed "Celtic" would need a lot of proof. Many of such designations are probably a result of the Greeks and Romans being rather generous with the label "Celt" (in the sense of "the guys out there") and the Central European historians accepting that without question in the 18th-19th centuries.
                      >
                      > The question is: if indeed the Celts were all over Europe before the current era, how come they evaporated so suddenly? How come that there suddenly are all kinds of languages all over Europe by the middle of the first millennium with hardly any record of massive migrations or a trace of the Celts except at the north-western fringes of the continent?
                      >
                      > As to agriculture- -husbandry, an article by three geneticists from University College London brought additional evidence last year. The gene that enables people to digest cow milk through adulthood appeared in and spread from modern south-western Slovakia and north-western Hungary about 7.5 thousand years ago.
                      >
                      > Martin
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      >
                    • joy2002cjm
                      Martin thank you for this information. Your questions are interesting and info is great. How do you know all this? Carolyn
                      Message 10 of 11 , May 10, 2010
                        Martin thank you for this information. Your questions are interesting and info is great. How do you know all this?

                        Carolyn
                      • James Dubelko
                        Short comment on the Illyrians. They are one of the oldest ethnic groups in Europe. Today s Albanians claim to be their descendants. Jim Dubelko ...
                        Message 11 of 11 , May 11, 2010
                          Short comment on the Illyrians. They are one of the oldest ethnic groups in
                          Europe. Today's Albanians claim to be their descendants.

                          Jim Dubelko

                          On Sat, May 8, 2010 at 11:27 AM, joy2002cjm <joy2002cjm@...> wrote:

                          >
                          >
                          > I find this interesting.... it implies the archeological origins of the
                          > slovak people. Where did our people come from? How did they settle in
                          > Slovakia? In trying to understand, I went to my favorite website, wikipedia
                          > and looked up celts
                          >
                          > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Celts and illyrians
                          >
                          > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illyrians
                          >
                          > and it appears to be just as you said, the celts from the north and the
                          > illyrains from the south mixed cultures and developed an agrarian society.
                          > It seems that the celts started in Austria and moved to britain. I have only
                          > been familiar with celts as far as british history goes. This quote is
                          > interesting
                          >
                          > "Celtic river-names are found in great numbers around the upper reaches of
                          > the Danube and Rhine, which led many Celtic scholars to place the
                          > ethnogenesis of the Celts in this area."
                          >
                          > The illyrians are less clear to me. They seem to be more a part of croatia
                          > and the balkans. In any case, it is all quite interesting to think about how
                          > we all developed into a national group of people. Maybe someone out there
                          > knows more??
                          >
                          > Thank you Helen!
                          >
                          > --- In Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com <Slovak-World%40yahoogroups.com>,
                          > "Helen Fedor" <hfed@...> wrote:
                          > >
                          > > I got a request to start fixing up and sending out the 1st chapter in
                          > > _Slovakia: European Contexts of the Folk Culture_, which is Traditional
                          > > Agriculture, just as I'd done with the food chapter. I hope this will
                          > > start up some discussions.
                          > >
                          > > H
                          > > All opinions my own
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > TRADITIONAL AGRICULTURE
                          > >
                          > > Growing crops and rearing livestock are useful[?] activities, but ones
                          > > that are not innate in human beings, thus making them part of human
                          > > culture. Agriculture was very important to the population that had
                          > > lived for centuries on the territory of present-day Slovakia; it was
                          > > their main occupation and accounted for a substantial part of their
                          > > output.
                          > >
                          > > From an ethnological point of view, agriculture can be split into two
                          > > basic subjects: 1) an examination of agriculture���s development,
                          > > regional and ethnic differences in its technology, its meaning[?], and
                          > > the materials used; and 2) an examination of the social component��"the
                          > > people who worked at agriculture during its various developmental
                          > > stages, how work was organized, the different ways of applying what had
                          > > been learned (how older experiences were assimilated), as well as the
                          > > relationships that resulted from this agricultural background.
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > ���The Development of Slovak Agriculture��
                          > >
                          > > In the 6th century, Slavs started to play a role in European history.
                          > > Archeological discoveries of agricultural tools show evidence that, at
                          > > that time, Europe was among the most agriculturally developed regions.
                          > > This was mainly due to the local[?] Celts, whose culture was also
                          > > influenced by the greater Celtic civilization that covered a large area,
                          > > from present-day Great Britain through central Europe, and as far as
                          > > Transcarpathian Ukraine.
                          > >
                          > > At almost the same time, another advanced agricultural culture, that of
                          > > the Illyrians, existed in the northern Balkans, southern Hungary, and
                          > > parts of Austria. Archeological strata show that this culture
                          > > intermingled with the Celtic culture and created the conditions under
                          > > which agriculture advanced in all of central Europe. [Did I get this
                          > > right? The original sentence was hideously convoluted.] Agriculture in
                          > > the Roman provinces, where all known grains were grown (mainly varieties
                          > > of wheat, barley, millet, and occasionally oats), also profited from
                          > > this. It is interesting that, at that time, agriculture on the
                          > > territory of today���s Slovakia was more advanced than in the
                          > > neighboring territories to the west that were populated by Germans; this
                          > > was because the Slovak territory was in direct contact with the Roman
                          > > provinces.
                          > >
                          >
                          >
                          >


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