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Re: [Slovak-World] Re: Driving in Slovakia - a road sign test?

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  • Ben Sorensen
    Hey Martin, I am going to take a stab at this- the temporary signs in SK override the permanent signs, if I am right. Now, these are going to tell me that
    Message 1 of 16 , Feb 11, 2010
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      Hey Martin,
      I am going to take a stab at this- the temporary signs in SK override the permanent signs, if I am right. Now, these are going to tell me that normally I would stop, and that it is the main (hlavna) road, but to the left I see that I am supposed to NOT stop (the blue sign with the red X. I keep going at 40kmh, and watching out for workers at the same time.
      Wouldn't they cover the stop sign in the US? Perhaps I am wrong.... :-) But this is fun!!!!
      Ben

       



      ________________________________
      From: votrubam <votrubam@...>
      To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Wed, February 10, 2010 4:43:48 PM
      Subject: [Slovak-World] Re: Driving in Slovakia - a road sign test?

       
      > stop for safety & then go.

      And be the guilty party when someone rams your car from behind, because you're on the main road and, therefore, not supposed or allowed to stop too close to an intersection? Not necessarily the answer, just a comment to accent the ambiguity. Equally, the driver who doesn't stop might be the guilty party if a car coming from the right hits him, because he didn't respect the stop sign.

      <http://tinyurl. com/ydyb8l2>

      I'll let it hang in there for a little longer in case anyone else wants to practice for Euro-shock and cross-cultural driving situations. Two hints.

      --- 1) The angle of the picture makes it truly difficult to see how to apply the overriding rule. It might be easier (although not necessarily so given the mere seconds the driver has to figure things out here) for a driver actually approaching the intersection, because s/he'd have stereoscopic vision. But we've got the time to inspect the pic very, very closely and ponder.

      --- 2) Another part of it is cross-cultural expectations, the second hint is: there's a (procedural) reason (not just the non-existence of the diamond traffic sign) why a driver would be unlikely to see this in the US.

      |
      Martin







      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • votrubam
      ... Exactly, Ben. It looks puzzling in this pic, because it s difficult to figure out that the yellow diamond is the permanent sign: it is on the tall pole
      Message 2 of 16 , Feb 11, 2010
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        > the temporary signs in SK override the permanent signs

        Exactly, Ben. It looks puzzling in this pic, because it's difficult to figure out that the yellow diamond is the permanent sign: it is on the tall pole projecting up above it (the elevation of the sign is a hint too).

        <http://tinyurl.com/ydyb8l2>

        The stop sign lower down (as well as the ones to the left of it in our driver's view) is temporary, it is on a separate, shorter, movable stand closer to the driver. The stop sign is attached to the top end of the stand, we don't see its pole stick out above it, and so it looks as if the stop sign were on the pole behind it, on the tall one with the permanent yellow diamond.

        > Wouldn't they cover

        It's not as common in Slovakia to cover the permanent signs for the period when they're overridden by temporary signs.

        |
        Martin
      • votrubam
        ... Forgot to address that. This sign does not apply to instances when a vehicle needs to stop for traffic reasons, including in order to yield at
        Message 3 of 16 , Feb 11, 2010
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          > supposed to NOT stop (the blue sign with the red X.

          Forgot to address that. This sign does not apply to instances when a vehicle needs to stop for traffic reasons, including in order to yield at intersections. It means that a vehicle must not stop, e.g., in order to ask for directions, let a passenger out, etc.

          Martin
        • Caye Caswick
            I can find out -- my cousins are working in Bratislava now and go home via train to Kosice often (then take the bus to Brezina or get picked up if someone
          Message 4 of 16 , Feb 11, 2010
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            I can find out -- my cousins are working in Bratislava now and go home via train to Kosice often (then take the bus to Brezina or get picked up if someone is available).  I'll ask them next time we SKYPE about whether their train is considered fast or if that's still in the works.
             
             
            Caye


            --- On Wed, 2/10/10, helene cincebeaux <helenezx@...> wrote:


            From: helene cincebeaux <helenezx@...>
            Subject: Re: [Slovak-World] Driving in Slovakia - a road sign test?
            To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com
            Date: Wednesday, February 10, 2010, 3:46 PM


             



            One thing that still makes me smile - they indicate a turn ahead that you think will take you where you want to go to - so you make it and end up in a train yard. The system of marking what is coming up is just different - sometimes its close and sometimes really far - we did  a lot of asking and backing up.

            I do love that village names are easily seen when entering or leaving a village. What is hard is the main road across the top of Slovakia - really no alternative and it is pretty slow going - supposedly it is the main road across the country but essentially good chuncks of it is just a two lane road.

            But the bits of superhighway keep growing - and they were talking about a high speed 3 hour train bratislava to kosice - don't know what transpired on this

            helene

             

            ____________ _________ _________ __
            From: votrubam <votrubam@yahoo. com>
            To: Slovak-World@ yahoogroups. com
            Sent: Wed, February 10, 2010 1:57:34 PM
            Subject: [Slovak-World] Driving in Slovakia - a road sign test?

             
            > expect more actual practice of "right before left"

            Very important, as Ron says. There are no 4-way stops in Europe, the above applies at any intersection with no traffic signs, no matter how insignificant the "other" street/road may appear -- even at an unmarked T-junction where you're driving straight ahead and a street joins in from the right: they go first.

            On the whole, however, unmarked intersections are rather rare in places with any traffic volume. The yield sign is the same as in the US, but the main road will also always have a yellow diamond sign. You're being told that you're driving on the main road here, you go first at that intersection:

            <http://tinyurl. com/y8kswt3>

            And the crossed-out yellow diamond tells you here that your road ceases being the main one at this point:

            <http://tinyurl. com/ylfulwy>

            It is crucial to keep in mind that all traffic signs, including speed limits, etc., stop applying at each intersection, no matter how insignificant. They must be posted over and over again after each intersection if the same regulations are to apply past it, otherwise the "default" rules begin to apply.

            And we're in the Old World, so things may begin to turn out curiouser and curiouser. If you see the situation below, do you stop and let a car coming from the right go first (as the stop sign says), or do you go first (as the "you're-on-the- main-road" sign says):

            <http://tinyurl. com/ydyb8l2>

            Although "curiouser," we're not in Wonderland with Alice, and the above is not an error, there's a rule for that too. Any guesses?

            |
            Martin

            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]











            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Plichta
            I don t believe you are reading the signs correctly. Let s take them one at time. The yellow diamond in a white border signifies that this road is the main
            Message 5 of 16 , Feb 11, 2010
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              I don't believe you are reading the signs correctly. Let's take them one at
              time.



              The yellow diamond in a white border signifies that this road is the main
              route a priority road.

              The Stop sign of course means to stop.

              The Blue sign with a white triangle with a human figure and a black zebra
              strip underneath means that this is a pedestrian crossing and the folks in
              the zebra strip have the right-of-way.

              The red circle with 40 means that the speed limit is "40 Kilometers per
              hour".

              The red circle with a red X on a blue field means "No stopping".

              The White information sign with a red triangle in the middle has the figure
              of a man digging. That is a construction sign.



              All signs in Europe come in several shapes. The shapes and/or color tell
              you what the sign means. Some examples are:

              8 sided Stop sign are always STOP.

              Square signs are information sign. Pedestrian crossing.

              Red triangle signs are Danger signs: Slippery road, dangerous hill, road
              narrows, two-way traffic, beware of animals, railroad crossing, Cyclists
              crossing, intersection with a priority road from the right, right-of-way at
              next intersection, etc.

              Red circles are probation signs: no entry for cars, give way to oncoming
              traffic, mandatory speed limit, closed to all vehicles, one way do not
              enter.

              Blue signs are information signs: Mandatory right turn, no left turn,
              one-way traffic, keep right, recommended speed, compulsory minimum speed,
              one way street, pedestrians only, one-way street reminder, etc.



              Enjoy,

              Frank



              _____

              From: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com] On
              Behalf Of votrubam
              Sent: Thursday, February 11, 2010 11:34 AM
              To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: [Slovak-World] Driving in Slovakia - a road sign test?





              > the temporary signs in SK override the permanent signs

              Exactly, Ben. It looks puzzling in this pic, because it's difficult to
              figure out that the yellow diamond is the permanent sign: it is on the tall
              pole projecting up above it (the elevation of the sign is a hint too).

              <http://tinyurl. <http://tinyurl.com/ydyb8l2> com/ydyb8l2>

              The stop sign lower down (as well as the ones to the left of it in our
              driver's view) is temporary, it is on a separate, shorter, movable stand
              closer to the driver. The stop sign is attached to the top end of the stand,
              we don't see its pole stick out above it, and so it looks as if the stop
              sign were on the pole behind it, on the tall one with the permanent yellow
              diamond.

              > Wouldn't they cover

              It's not as common in Slovakia to cover the permanent signs for the period
              when they're overridden by temporary signs.

              |
              Martin





              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • votrubam
              ... We re in agreement, Frank. ... But you didn t say who you believe is not reading correctly what? The problem was not which of the multitude of road signs
              Message 6 of 16 , Feb 11, 2010
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                > this road is the main route a priority road.
                > The Stop sign of course means to stop.

                We're in agreement, Frank.


                > I don't believe you are reading the signs correctly

                But you didn't say who you believe is not reading correctly what?


                The problem was not which of the multitude of road signs means what, that was likely quite obvious to those who were able to address the dilemma, and irrelevant except regarding two of the signs. The question was which of the two signs takes precedence -- "MAIN ROAD and, therefore, don't stop and go first" or "STOP and, therefore, let a car coming from the secondary road on the right go first."

                You cannot have a stop sign on a main road before a secondary road in Europe, or, conversely, you cannot be on a main road if you're supposed to stop for traffic from another road. That, the clash of the two road signs, "main road" and "stop" on the same street, was the problem. It's too late to see that as a problem now, though, the answer to what's going on in that pic has already been posted.

                |
                Martin
              • William C. Wormuth
                Just a side note for visitors to Slovakia: The first day of the week here is Sunday. The first day of the week in Slovakia is Monday.
                Message 7 of 16 , Feb 11, 2010
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                  Just a side note for visitors to Slovakia: The first day of the week here is Sunday. The first day of the week in Slovakia is Monday.





                  ________________________________
                  From: votrubam <votrubam@...>
                  To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com
                  Sent: Thu, February 11, 2010 9:37:16 PM
                  Subject: [Slovak-World] Driving in Slovakia - a road sign test?


                  > this road is the main route a priority road.
                  > The Stop sign of course means to stop.

                  We're in agreement, Frank.

                  > I don't believe you are reading the signs correctly

                  But you didn't say who you believe is not reading correctly what?

                  The problem was not which of the multitude of road signs means what, that was likely quite obvious to those who were able to address the dilemma, and irrelevant except regarding two of the signs. The question was which of the two signs takes precedence -- "MAIN ROAD and, therefore, don't stop and go first" or "STOP and, therefore, let a car coming from the secondary road on the right go first."

                  You cannot have a stop sign on a main road before a secondary road in Europe, or, conversely, you cannot be on a main road if you're supposed to stop for traffic from another road. That, the clash of the two road signs, "main road" and "stop" on the same street, was the problem. It's too late to see that as a problem now, though, the answer to what's going on in that pic has already been posted.

                  |
                  Martin







                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • Ben Sorensen
                  Thank you Frank, And which one is zakaz zastavenia???? ... http://www.znak.sk/index.php?mid=10&parent=2 I think we were all three reading them well. 
                  Message 8 of 16 , Feb 11, 2010
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                    Thank you Frank,
                    And which one is "zakaz zastavenia????"
                    :-)
                    http://www.znak.sk/index.php?mid=10&parent=2
                    I think we were all three reading them well.  www.atlas.sk under "slovnik" has a good set of SJ-AJ translations....

                    Martin, what is the difference between "zakaz zastavenia" and "zakaz statia?"  I can't see the real difference- other than the design of the sign.

                    Milka read these the same as I did... :-) and we both drove those roads every day!!!!!
                    Ben




                    ________________________________
                    From: Plichta <plichta@...>
                    To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com
                    Sent: Thu, February 11, 2010 7:11:28 PM
                    Subject: RE: [Slovak-World] Driving in Slovakia - a road sign test?

                     
                    I don't believe you are reading the signs correctly. Let's take them one at
                    time.

                    The yellow diamond in a white border signifies that this road is the main
                    route a priority road.

                    The Stop sign of course means to stop.

                    The Blue sign with a white triangle with a human figure and a black zebra
                    strip underneath means that this is a pedestrian crossing and the folks in
                    the zebra strip have the right-of-way.

                    The red circle with 40 means that the speed limit is "40 Kilometers per
                    hour".

                    The red circle with a red X on a blue field means "No stopping".

                    The White information sign with a red triangle in the middle has the figure
                    of a man digging. That is a construction sign.

                    All signs in Europe come in several shapes. The shapes and/or color tell
                    you what the sign means. Some examples are:

                    8 sided Stop sign are always STOP.

                    Square signs are information sign. Pedestrian crossing.

                    Red triangle signs are Danger signs: Slippery road, dangerous hill, road
                    narrows, two-way traffic, beware of animals, railroad crossing, Cyclists
                    crossing, intersection with a priority road from the right, right-of-way at
                    next intersection, etc.

                    Red circles are probation signs: no entry for cars, give way to oncoming
                    traffic, mandatory speed limit, closed to all vehicles, one way do not
                    enter.

                    Blue signs are information signs: Mandatory right turn, no left turn,
                    one-way traffic, keep right, recommended speed, compulsory minimum speed,
                    one way street, pedestrians only, one-way street reminder, etc.

                    Enjoy,

                    Frank

                    _____

                    From: Slovak-World@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:Slovak-World@ yahoogroups. com] On
                    Behalf Of votrubam
                    Sent: Thursday, February 11, 2010 11:34 AM
                    To: Slovak-World@ yahoogroups. com
                    Subject: [Slovak-World] Driving in Slovakia - a road sign test?

                    > the temporary signs in SK override the permanent signs

                    Exactly, Ben. It looks puzzling in this pic, because it's difficult to
                    figure out that the yellow diamond is the permanent sign: it is on the tall
                    pole projecting up above it (the elevation of the sign is a hint too).

                    <http://tinyurl. <http://tinyurl. com/ydyb8l2> com/ydyb8l2>

                    The stop sign lower down (as well as the ones to the left of it in our
                    driver's view) is temporary, it is on a separate, shorter, movable stand
                    closer to the driver. The stop sign is attached to the top end of the stand,
                    we don't see its pole stick out above it, and so it looks as if the stop
                    sign were on the pole behind it, on the tall one with the permanent yellow
                    diamond.

                    > Wouldn't they cover

                    It's not as common in Slovakia to cover the permanent signs for the period
                    when they're overridden by temporary signs.

                    |
                    Martin

                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • genmom4
                    Great info, Frank. Are pedestrian crossings limited to villages? Would you have to worry about a pedestrian crossing if the speed limit is 40 or 50 km/h? That
                    Message 9 of 16 , Feb 12, 2010
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                      Great info, Frank.

                      Are pedestrian crossings limited to villages?
                      Would you have to worry about a pedestrian crossing if the speed limit is 40 or 50 km/h?
                      That sounds like a crazy question, but given all of the info presented on this forum regarding driving, I thought I'd ask it anyway.

                      Are the pedestrians bold, stepping out into the road because they know they have the right of way? Kind of like University of Pittsburgh students? (I was one once and can admit to a guilty charge in my younger days, but age has tempered this behavior in me, but not my daughter!)

                      Barbara

                      > The yellow diamond in a white border signifies that this road is the main
                      > route a priority road.
                      >
                      > The Stop sign of course means to stop.
                      >
                      > The Blue sign with a white triangle with a human figure and a black zebra
                      > strip underneath means that this is a pedestrian crossing and the folks in
                      > the zebra strip have the right-of-way.
                      >
                      > The red circle with 40 means that the speed limit is "40 Kilometers per
                      > hour".
                      >
                      > The red circle with a red X on a blue field means "No stopping".
                      >
                      > The White information sign with a red triangle in the middle has the figure
                      > of a man digging. That is a construction sign.
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > All signs in Europe come in several shapes. The shapes and/or color tell
                      > you what the sign means. Some examples are:
                      >
                      > 8 sided Stop sign are always STOP.
                      >
                      > Square signs are information sign. Pedestrian crossing.
                      >
                      > Red triangle signs are Danger signs: Slippery road, dangerous hill, road
                      > narrows, two-way traffic, beware of animals, railroad crossing, Cyclists
                      > crossing, intersection with a priority road from the right, right-of-way at
                      > next intersection, etc.
                      >
                      > Red circles are probation signs: no entry for cars, give way to oncoming
                      > traffic, mandatory speed limit, closed to all vehicles, one way do not
                      > enter.
                      >
                      > Blue signs are information signs: Mandatory right turn, no left turn,
                      > one-way traffic, keep right, recommended speed, compulsory minimum speed,
                      > one way street, pedestrians only, one-way street reminder, etc.
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > Enjoy,
                      >
                      > Frank
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > _____
                      >
                      > F
                    • Plichta
                      Barbara, The pedestrian has the right-of-way at any zebra striped crosswalk. Keep your eyes open. They are always well marked. Yes, some pedestrians will
                      Message 10 of 16 , Feb 12, 2010
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                        Barbara,



                        The pedestrian has the right-of-way at any zebra striped crosswalk. Keep
                        your eyes open. They are always well marked.



                        Yes, some pedestrians will step out into the crosswalk without looking in
                        either direction. If you hit them it is your fault.



                        I'm reluctant to do it in my part of Virginia. We have the same rule here
                        but all of the drivers do not know the rule and you have to be defensive in
                        your stepping out.





                        Frank



                        _____

                        From: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com] On
                        Behalf Of genmom4
                        Sent: Friday, February 12, 2010 6:58 AM
                        To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com
                        Subject: [Slovak-World] Re: Driving in Slovakia - a road sign test?






                        Great info, Frank.

                        Are pedestrian crossings limited to villages?
                        Would you have to worry about a pedestrian crossing if the speed limit is 40
                        or 50 km/h?
                        That sounds like a crazy question, but given all of the info presented on
                        this forum regarding driving, I thought I'd ask it anyway.

                        Are the pedestrians bold, stepping out into the road because they know they
                        have the right of way? Kind of like University of Pittsburgh students? (I
                        was one once and can admit to a guilty charge in my younger days, but age
                        has tempered this behavior in me, but not my daughter!)

                        Barbara






                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • William C. Wormuth
                        And here we have a sign: DEAD END, [MRTVY KONEC]! Ben, In the US we see people driving while applying makeup. reading newspapers, talking on cell
                        Message 11 of 16 , Feb 12, 2010
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                          And here we have a sign: DEAD END, [MRTVY KONEC]!


                          Ben, In the US we see people driving while applying makeup. reading newspapers, talking on cell phones,.....etc.

                          Do you play the Fujar while driving? I have a great mental picture of that. :0) :0) :0).

                          Vilo


                          ________________________________
                          From: Ben Sorensen <cerrunos1@...>
                          To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com
                          Sent: Fri, February 12, 2010 2:41:36 AM
                          Subject: Re: [Slovak-World] Driving in Slovakia - a road sign test?


                          Thank you Frank,
                          And which one is "zakaz zastavenia?? ??"
                          :-)
                          http://www.znak. sk/index. php?mid=10& parent=2
                          I think we were all three reading them well. www.atlas.sk under "slovnik" has a good set of SJ-AJ translations. ...

                          Martin, what is the difference between "zakaz zastavenia" and "zakaz statia?" I can't see the real difference- other than the design of the sign.

                          Milka read these the same as I did... :-) and we both drove those roads every day!!!!!
                          Ben

                          ____________ _________ _________ __
                          From: Plichta <plichta@earthlink. net>
                          To: Slovak-World@ yahoogroups. com
                          Sent: Thu, February 11, 2010 7:11:28 PM
                          Subject: RE: [Slovak-World] Driving in Slovakia - a road sign test?


                          I don't believe you are reading the signs correctly. Let's take them one at
                          time.

                          The yellow diamond in a white border signifies that this road is the main
                          route a priority road.

                          The Stop sign of course means to stop.

                          The Blue sign with a white triangle with a human figure and a black zebra
                          strip underneath means that this is a pedestrian crossing and the folks in
                          the zebra strip have the right-of-way.

                          The red circle with 40 means that the speed limit is "40 Kilometers per
                          hour".

                          The red circle with a red X on a blue field means "No stopping".

                          The White information sign with a red triangle in the middle has the figure
                          of a man digging. That is a construction sign.

                          All signs in Europe come in several shapes. The shapes and/or color tell
                          you what the sign means. Some examples are:

                          8 sided Stop sign are always STOP.

                          Square signs are information sign. Pedestrian crossing.

                          Red triangle signs are Danger signs: Slippery road, dangerous hill, road
                          narrows, two-way traffic, beware of animals, railroad crossing, Cyclists
                          crossing, intersection with a priority road from the right, right-of-way at
                          next intersection, etc.

                          Red circles are probation signs: no entry for cars, give way to oncoming
                          traffic, mandatory speed limit, closed to all vehicles, one way do not
                          enter.

                          Blue signs are information signs: Mandatory right turn, no left turn,
                          one-way traffic, keep right, recommended speed, compulsory minimum speed,
                          one way street, pedestrians only, one-way street reminder, etc.

                          Enjoy,

                          Frank

                          _____

                          From: Slovak-World@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:Slovak- World@ yahoogroups. com] On
                          Behalf Of votrubam
                          Sent: Thursday, February 11, 2010 11:34 AM
                          To: Slovak-World@ yahoogroups. com
                          Subject: [Slovak-World] Driving in Slovakia - a road sign test?

                          > the temporary signs in SK override the permanent signs

                          Exactly, Ben. It looks puzzling in this pic, because it's difficult to
                          figure out that the yellow diamond is the permanent sign: it is on the tall
                          pole projecting up above it (the elevation of the sign is a hint too).

                          <http://tinyurl. <http://tinyurl. com/ydyb8l2> com/ydyb8l2>

                          The stop sign lower down (as well as the ones to the left of it in our
                          driver's view) is temporary, it is on a separate, shorter, movable stand
                          closer to the driver. The stop sign is attached to the top end of the stand,
                          we don't see its pole stick out above it, and so it looks as if the stop
                          sign were on the pole behind it, on the tall one with the permanent yellow
                          diamond.

                          > Wouldn't they cover

                          It's not as common in Slovakia to cover the permanent signs for the period
                          when they're overridden by temporary signs.

                          |
                          Martin

                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • votrubam
                          ... The first one means you must not bring you car to a halt (unless traffic circumstances...). The second one allows stopping for the time necessary to load
                          Message 12 of 16 , Feb 12, 2010
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                            > the difference between "zakaz zastavenia" and "zakaz statia?"

                            The first one means you must not bring you car to a halt (unless traffic circumstances...).

                            The second one allows stopping for the time necessary to load or unload whatever you need to, or for the passengers to get in or out. In simplistic terms, it is interpreted as you can stop as long as you don't leave your car (the popular assumption is that the policeman will send you away if he catches you just lingering, but will not cite you).

                            Martin
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