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Re: [Slovak-World] Question on decimated village

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  • William F Brna
    Yes, and there were Slovaks who were not Nazi sympathizers. There are three Brnas listed as Righteous Gentiles in the Holocaust Museum in Washington and at
    Message 1 of 29 , Jan 4, 2010
      Yes, and there were Slovaks who were not Nazi sympathizers. There are
      three Brnas listed as "Righteous Gentiles" in the Holocaust Museum in
      Washington and at Yad Vashem in Israel. The grandfather of one of the
      families that I have stayed with saved at least three Jewish families.
      He had double-walled buildings on his farm. Whenever anyone came around,
      the Jewish families hid between the walls. I stayed at what remained of
      the farm, but the buildings were no longer in existence.

      Bill Brna

      On Mon, 4 Jan 2010 01:57:06 +0000 (UTC) lkocik@... writes:

      Helene... et al
      There were Czechs and Slovaks that profiited from the war at the cost of
      their countrymen. There were Nazi sympathizers and actuaul Nazi party
      members among the citizenery of both countries too. This is a gut
      wrenching and uncomfortable reality but needs to be kept an "in your
      face" subject. ----- Original Message -----
      From: votrubam
      To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Sun, 3 Jan 2010 22:26:41 +0000 (UTC)
      Subject: [Slovak-World] Question on decimated village

      > My brother-in-law was here the other day and said he

      > saw a show on the history channel that talked about a

      > town in Slovakia

      Time to show him a map of Central Europe, perhaps? Not in Slovakia:

      <http://tinyurl.com/y924q6a>

      And as others have said, most people (not all) were killed, not just the
      children. About 20 percent of the children were spared, because they had
      traits of the "superior race."

      Martin

      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



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      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • dragansk
      Evidently a number of Slovak towns were destroyed as a result of partisan activity. On my first visit to Slovakia, I asked our relatives in the small town of
      Message 2 of 29 , Jan 4, 2010
        Evidently a number of Slovak towns were destroyed as a result of partisan activity. On my first visit to Slovakia, I asked our relatives in the small town of Turcovce, north of Humenne, if the house I thought my father was born in was actually the same house. That's when we learned that, because a German officer was killed by partisans in that area, the Germans marched everyone from Turcovce to the top of a nearby hill so that they could watch their homes being burned to the ground. The homes in Turcovce were later rebuilt.
        Dennis


        --- In Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com, "Ron" <amiak27@...> wrote:
        >
        > The nazis leveled the village of Sambron (¹ambron) a little SE of Stara Lubovna. That is from a report from a Jakubany man living in Stara Lubovna. Looking on the web, it seems Jan 23 1945 was the day & it was in revenge for Partizans basing themselves out of the village. There is mention of 145 houses being leveled, but no mention of children or slaughter of the population. So perhaps this is not the place.
        > Ron
        > http://www.sambron.ocu.sk/sk/index.php?ids=4
        > http://www.saris.eu.sk/sambron/en
        >
        >
        > --- In Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com, helene cincebeaux <helenezx@> wrote:
        > >
        > > Wonder if anyone can help? I got this question
        > > My brother-in-law was here the other day and said he saw a show on the history channel that talked about a town in Slovakia (during WW II) that was attacked by the Nazis and all of the children in this town where killed.  Today, there is a shrine in this town with the names of all of the slain children on it.  Do you know the name of this town or any other information concerning this matter.  I have checked all of the information I have and I cannot find anything.
        > >  
        > >     I wondered if it might have been Sklabina where some 30 young men and older ones were executed by the German soldiers in retaliation.
        > >  
        > >    Does anyone know of another where only children were murdered?
        > >
        > > helene
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > ________________________________
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        > >
        >
      • votrubam
        ... The list is here, Bill: It names two Brnos recognized in 1993, no Brna. Unless the people had different last names, the
        Message 3 of 29 , Jan 4, 2010
          > and there were Slovaks who were not Nazi sympathizers. There are
          > three Brnas listed as "Righteous Gentiles" in the Holocaust
          > Museum in Washington and at Yad Vashem in Israel.

          The list is here, Bill:

          <http://tinyurl.com/ykd93pj>

          It names two Brnos recognized in 1993, no Brna. Unless the people had different last names, the webmasters at Yad Vashem should perhaps be contacted to update the list.

          Martin
        • William F Brna
          Martin, Possibly I was misinformed. I was told by the grandson of one of the men who was supposedly on the list, that he and two other Brnas were on the list.
          Message 4 of 29 , Jan 4, 2010
            Martin,

            Possibly I was misinformed. I was told by the grandson of one of the men
            who was supposedly on the list, that he and two other Brnas were on the
            list. He also gave me the name of one of the men who was saved by his
            grandfather's efforts. I had no reason to doubt what he told me since
            the information was unsolicited, however, I will do my best to verify its
            accuracy.

            Bill Brna

            On Mon, 04 Jan 2010 15:19:41 -0000 "votrubam" <votrubam@...>
            writes:

            > and there were Slovaks who were not Nazi sympathizers. There are
            > three Brnas listed as "Righteous Gentiles" in the Holocaust
            > Museum in Washington and at Yad Vashem in Israel.

            The list is here, Bill:

            <http://tinyurl.com/ykd93pj>

            It names two Brnos recognized in 1993, no Brna. Unless the people had
            different last names, the webmasters at Yad Vashem should perhaps be
            contacted to update the list.

            Martin



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            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • William C. Wormuth
            We are now entering into the politics of the First Republic, formed by Monsignor Jozef Tiso. I believe that he formed the Republic, legitimately, for the good
            Message 5 of 29 , Jan 4, 2010
              We are now entering into the politics of the First Republic, formed by Monsignor Jozef Tiso.

              I believe that he formed the Republic, legitimately, for the good and (safety), of the Slovak people. I do not support the propaganda that Monsignor Tiso was a "Nazi, who supported the killing of the Jewish and Gypsy populations".

              Before the formation of the 1st Republic, (and following the war, up to the 2nd Republic), the Czech led Governments treated the Slovaks as second class citizens, who were not capable of anything except farming and labor. The original agreements of the Dohoda were put aside by Tomas Masaryk. For example, (which some might consider Unimportant but which effected many Slovaks) was, Republic was to be oficially named, CzechoSlovakia. Later, the government "dropped the capital "S" and Slovaks remained second class.


              School children were obliged to learn Czech and Slovaks had little or no political voice.
              In My Grandmothers village, (Kúty), in western Slovakia had a mayor, who had his position because his wife was Czech. All business, with the exceptionof restaurants and bars, in the village were owned by people who were Jews.

              The Envy and in some cases hatred of Jews, stemmed from the Hungarian rule. The King appointed the Jews as tax collectors, in order to clear his name as a tax collector. The statement I heard from our people, when I was a child was, "The Magyars took 50% and the Jews 40% and we ad to live on the remaining 10% of our incomes.".


              The dreams of the Slovaks in the afore mentioned film, were no different than those of our immegrant forefathers. They wanted to improve their lives and perhaps someday to return home and have their own businesses.


              The film, shop on Main Street, ( Obchod na Korze ), was meant as a " Propaganda tool", for the Czechoslovak Communist Government alienate any Political influence of the Slovaks.

              The dreams of the Slovaks in the film, were no different than those of our immigrant forefathers. They wanted to improve their lives and perhaps someday to return home and have their own businesses.


              Following the realization that the German Nazi's were killing these people our people began to hide Jews in homes and factories.

              It was unfortunate that the Slovak "army", Hlinkova Garda, was required to arrest and help in the deportion of the Jewish population, which gave them an image of SS troops.

              The government of Monsingior Tiso began the buildup of the infrastructure of the country and made other gains. The reason for my writing this is because I EXTREMELY detest the labeling of the 1st Republic as " as "Nazi", thus supporting the hanging of the Monsignor, exactly as intended by the communists.

              I hope that I have demonstrated the fact that were many factors included in forming of the Republic as well as the support of Slovaks. Historians look upon the war fthrough different eyes thean the people who lived it. There was not 100% good in the republic and neither was there 100% bad. The same can be said the rule of communists.

              Did any of you members ever met Father Augustine Zan, who was a chaplain for the sisters of Sts. Cyril and Method? He was a Secretary to Monsignior Tiso until the end of WW Two. He was good man whose base of existence was to be "First a Priest and Second a Slovak". His story is for another time. Nech Ban Boh dajim Sväteho Pokoji.

              Vilo











              ________________________________
              w entering into the "Politic" of thrFrom: William F Brna <wfbrna@...>
              To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Mon, January 4, 2010 7:11:25 AM
              Subject: Re: [Slovak-World] Question on decimated village


              Yes, and there were Slovaks who were not Nazi sympathizers. There are
              three Brnas listed as "Righteous Gentiles" in the Holocaust Museum in
              Washington and at Yad Vashem in Israel. The grandfather of one of the
              families that I have stayed with saved at least three Jewish families.
              He had double-walled buildings on his farm. Whenever anyone came around,
              the Jewish families hid between the walls. I stayed at what remained of
              the farm, but the buildings were no longer in existence.

              Bill Brna

              On Mon, 4 Jan 2010 01:57:06 +0000 (UTC) lkocik@comcast. net writes:

              Helene... et al
              There were Czechs and Slovaks that profiited from the war at the cost of
              their countrymen. There were Nazi sympathizers and actuaul Nazi party
              members among the citizenery of both countries too. This is a gut
              wrenching and uncomfortable reality but needs to be kept an "in your
              face" subject. ----- Original Message -----
              From: votrubam
              To: Slovak-World@ yahoogroups. com
              Sent: Sun, 3 Jan 2010 22:26:41 +0000 (UTC)
              Subject: [Slovak-World] Question on decimated village

              > My brother-in-law was here the other day and said he

              > saw a show on the history channel that talked about a

              > town in Slovakia

              Time to show him a map of Central Europe, perhaps? Not in Slovakia:

              <http://tinyurl. com/y924q6a>

              And as others have said, most people (not all) were killed, not just the
              children. About 20 percent of the children were spared, because they had
              traits of the "superior race."

              Martin

              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

              ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _
              Diet Help
              Cheap Diet Help Tips. Click here.
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              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • lkocik@comcast.net
              Vilo Please.. write more on this subject. You obviously have intense feelings and a deep base of knowledge on this era of Slovak history. I tried to provoke
              Message 6 of 29 , Jan 4, 2010
                Vilo
                Please.. write more on this subject. You obviously have intense feelings and a deep base of knowledge on this era of Slovak history.
                I tried to provoke some meaningful dialouge with my email on the subject but fear I might have came across as too abrasive, or negative. I also feel I stepped on some toes by too casually mentioning the ties some[ an extremely small minority] Slovaks had with the Nazi party.I'm sorry for the way I phrased it, I wasn't trying to imply anything. I have no jewish blood that I'm aware of, but
                ever since my childhood, nothing has upset me more than the holacost....
                What I can't understand is how everyone including the catholic church, turned a blind eye to it. But there again, I'm expressing my personal, pathetic, emotional opion. I'm not looking to blame any one group ...and without living there in those times, and with my very limited "textbook" knowledge, I have no right to form any opion.
                That's what leads me to respectfully ask for your insight on those years between the great wars.
                The thought has also crossed my mind that maybe this forum is not the proper place for this subject, so if anyone objects please feel free to tell me.
                Thank you Vilo and the others that have replied.
                Larry Kocik----- Original Message -----
                From: William C. Wormuth
                To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com
                Sent: Mon, 4 Jan 2010 19:35:46 +0000 (UTC)
                Subject: Re: [Slovak-World] Question on decimated village













                We are now entering into the politics of the First Republic, formed by Monsignor Jozef Tiso.



                I believe that he formed the Republic, legitimately, for the good and (safety), of the Slovak people. I do not support the propaganda that Monsignor Tiso was a "Nazi, who supported the killing of the Jewish and Gypsy populations".



                Before the formation of the 1st Republic, (and following the war, up to the 2nd Republic), the Czech led Governments treated the Slovaks as second class citizens, who were not capable of anything except farming and labor. The original agreements of the Dohoda were put aside by Tomas Masaryk. For example, (which some might consider Unimportant but which effected many Slovaks) was, Republic was to be oficially named, CzechoSlovakia. Later, the government "dropped the capital "S" and Slovaks remained second class.



                School children were obliged to learn Czech and Slovaks had little or no political voice.


                In My Grandmothers village, (Kúty), in western Slovakia had a mayor, who had his position because his wife was Czech. All business, with the exceptionof restaurants and bars, in the village were owned by people who were Jews.



                The Envy and in some cases hatred of Jews, stemmed from the Hungarian rule. The King appointed the Jews as tax collectors, in order to clear his name as a tax collector. The statement I heard from our people, when I was a child was, "The Magyars took 50% and the Jews 40% and we ad to live on the remaining 10% of our incomes.".



                The dreams of the Slovaks in the afore mentioned film, were no different than those of our immegrant forefathers. They wanted to improve their lives and perhaps someday to return home and have their own businesses.



                The film, shop on Main Street, ( Obchod na Korze ), was meant as a " Propaganda tool", for the Czechoslovak Communist Government alienate any Political influence of the Slovaks.



                The dreams of the Slovaks in the film, were no different than those of our immigrant forefathers. They wanted to improve their lives and perhaps someday to return home and have their own businesses.



                Following the realization that the German Nazi's were killing these people our people began to hide Jews in homes and factories.



                It was unfortunate that the Slovak "army", Hlinkova Garda, was required to arrest and help in the deportion of the Jewish population, which gave them an image of SS troops.



                The government of Monsingior Tiso began the buildup of the infrastructure of the country and made other gains. The reason for my writing this is because I EXTREMELY detest the labeling of the 1st Republic as " as "Nazi", thus supporting the hanging of the Monsignor, exactly as intended by the communists.



                I hope that I have demonstrated the fact that were many factors included in forming of the Republic as well as the support of Slovaks. Historians look upon the war fthrough different eyes thean the people who lived it. There was not 100% good in the republic and neither was there 100% bad. The same can be said the rule of communists.



                Did any of you members ever met Father Augustine Zan, who was a chaplain for the sisters of Sts. Cyril and Method? He was a Secretary to Monsignior Tiso until the end of WW Two. He was good man whose base of existence was to be "First a Priest and Second a Slovak". His story is for another time. Nech Ban Boh dajim Sväteho Pokoji.



                Vilo



                ________________________________


                w entering into the "Politic" of thrFrom: William F Brna <wfbrna@...>


                To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com


                Sent: Mon, January 4, 2010 7:11:25 AM


                Subject: Re: [Slovak-World] Question on decimated village



                Yes, and there were Slovaks who were not Nazi sympathizers. There are


                three Brnas listed as "Righteous Gentiles" in the Holocaust Museum in


                Washington and at Yad Vashem in Israel. The grandfather of one of the


                families that I have stayed with saved at least three Jewish families.


                He had double-walled buildings on his farm. Whenever anyone came around,


                the Jewish families hid between the walls. I stayed at what remained of


                the farm, but the buildings were no longer in existence.



                Bill Brna



                On Mon, 4 Jan 2010 01:57:06 +0000 (UTC) lkocik@comcast. net writes:



                Helene... et al


                There were Czechs and Slovaks that profiited from the war at the cost of


                their countrymen. There were Nazi sympathizers and actuaul Nazi party


                members among the citizenery of both countries too. This is a gut


                wrenching and uncomfortable reality but needs to be kept an "in your


                face" subject. ----- Original Message -----


                From: votrubam


                To: Slovak-World@ yahoogroups. com


                Sent: Sun, 3 Jan 2010 22:26:41 +0000 (UTC)


                Subject: [Slovak-World] Question on decimated village



                > My brother-in-law was here the other day and said he



                > saw a show on the history channel that talked about a



                > town in Slovakia



                Time to show him a map of Central Europe, perhaps? Not in Slovakia:



                <http://tinyurl. com/y924q6a>



                And as others have said, most people (not all) were killed, not just the


                children. About 20 percent of the children were spared, because they had


                traits of the "superior race."



                Martin



                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



                ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _


                Diet Help


                Cheap Diet Help Tips. Click here.
                http://thirdpartyof fers.juno. com/TGL2141/ c?cp=iwNPpMaYbFg GZu-8-zSI6QAAJ1D 4BwlR4ftpi7iFil_ CpFskAAYAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAADNAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA YQAAAAAA=



                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]








                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • lkocik@comcast.net
                Martin Thank you for your enlightening reply on my insensitive remark. About the link you posted for Bill; I ve seen the sites that show the people that were
                Message 7 of 29 , Jan 4, 2010
                  Martin
                  Thank you for your enlightening reply on my insensitive remark.
                  About the link you posted for Bill; I've seen the sites that show the people that were intered but am not familiar with this site. I couldn't tell what this list designates, and what is the context of the word "rightous"in this instance. Was it people who had a role "helping" secure freedom for victims of the holacost? It seems too small of a list for that.
                  respectfully
                  Larry kocik----- Original Message -----
                  From: votrubam
                  To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com
                  Sent: Mon, 4 Jan 2010 15:19:41 +0000 (UTC)
                  Subject: [Slovak-World] Re: Question on decimated village













                  > and there were Slovaks who were not Nazi sympathizers. There are


                  > three Brnas listed as "Righteous Gentiles" in the Holocaust


                  > Museum in Washington and at Yad Vashem in Israel.



                  The list is here, Bill:



                  <http://tinyurl.com/ykd93pj>



                  It names two Brnos recognized in 1993, no Brna. Unless the people had different last names, the webmasters at Yad Vashem should perhaps be contacted to update the list.



                  Martin








                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • William C. Wormuth
                  Bill, It was not you but your reason for the words used. They are a result source of your knowledge, even though it is limited and your source may not be
                  Message 8 of 29 , Jan 4, 2010
                    Bill,

                    It was not you but your reason for the words used. They are a result source of your knowledge, even though it is limited and your source may not be limited.

                    I would not and will not become angered about what members write here as the purpose of this site is to learn and I have learned much.

                    Back and forth communication is good and although you and I may never agree, we will remember the the content and perhaps, in the future, use the information.

                    I have exposed myself to be damned by some, as a Nazi sympathizer, which of course I am not. What happened to the Jews had no rhyme nor reason. I am confident as a Catholic that those Nazi criminals have now experienced the true wrath of God.

                    Experiences in the whole of Slovakia during the war might be as varied then as the life was between East and West, during Magyar rule. The East has suffered the most through all.

                    I have never heard of a village being destroyed in the West nor do I know of anyone who was killed or deported to a German Death Camp.

                    By the way, I did not mean to sound like an authority on the subject. I wrote only to express my opinion based on personal connections .

                    Pray for Peace and God Bless,

                    Vilo






                    ________________________________
                    From: "lkocik@..." <lkocik@...>
                    To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com
                    Sent: Mon, January 4, 2010 8:02:07 PM
                    Subject: Re: [Slovak-World] Question on decimated village


                    Vilo
                    Please.. write more on this subject. You obviously have intense feelings and a deep base of knowledge on this era of Slovak history.
                    I tried to provoke some meaningful dialouge with my email on the subject but fear I might have came across as too abrasive, or negative. I also feel I stepped on some toes by too casually mentioning the ties some[ an extremely small minority] Slovaks had with the Nazi party.I'm sorry for the way I phrased it, I wasn't trying to imply anything. I have no jewish blood that I'm aware of, but
                    ever since my childhood, nothing has upset me more than the holacost....
                    What I can't understand is how everyone including the catholic church, turned a blind eye to it. But there again, I'm expressing my personal, pathetic, emotional opion. I'm not looking to blame any one group ...and without living there in those times, and with my very limited "textbook" knowledge, I have no right to form any opion.
                    That's what leads me to respectfully ask for your insight on those years between the great wars.
                    The thought has also crossed my mind that maybe this forum is not the proper place for this subject, so if anyone objects please feel free to tell me.
                    Thank you Vilo and the others that have replied.
                    Larry Kocik----- Original Message -----
                    From: William C. Wormuth
                    To: Slovak-World@ yahoogroups. com
                    Sent: Mon, 4 Jan 2010 19:35:46 +0000 (UTC)
                    Subject: Re: [Slovak-World] Question on decimated village

                    We are now entering into the politics of the First Republic, formed by Monsignor Jozef Tiso.

                    I believe that he formed the Republic, legitimately, for the good and (safety), of the Slovak people. I do not support the propaganda that Monsignor Tiso was a "Nazi, who supported the killing of the Jewish and Gypsy populations" .

                    Before the formation of the 1st Republic, (and following the war, up to the 2nd Republic), the Czech led Governments treated the Slovaks as second class citizens, who were not capable of anything except farming and labor. The original agreements of the Dohoda were put aside by Tomas Masaryk. For example, (which some might consider Unimportant but which effected many Slovaks) was, Republic was to be oficially named, CzechoSlovakia. Later, the government "dropped the capital "S" and Slovaks remained second class.

                    School children were obliged to learn Czech and Slovaks had little or no political voice.

                    In My Grandmothers village, (Kúty), in western Slovakia had a mayor, who had his position because his wife was Czech. All business, with the exceptionof restaurants and bars, in the village were owned by people who were Jews.

                    The Envy and in some cases hatred of Jews, stemmed from the Hungarian rule. The King appointed the Jews as tax collectors, in order to clear his name as a tax collector. The statement I heard from our people, when I was a child was, "The Magyars took 50% and the Jews 40% and we ad to live on the remaining 10% of our incomes.".

                    The dreams of the Slovaks in the afore mentioned film, were no different than those of our immegrant forefathers. They wanted to improve their lives and perhaps someday to return home and have their own businesses.

                    The film, shop on Main Street, ( Obchod na Korze ), was meant as a " Propaganda tool", for the Czechoslovak Communist Government alienate any Political influence of the Slovaks.

                    The dreams of the Slovaks in the film, were no different than those of our immigrant forefathers. They wanted to improve their lives and perhaps someday to return home and have their own businesses.

                    Following the realization that the German Nazi's were killing these people our people began to hide Jews in homes and factories.

                    It was unfortunate that the Slovak "army", Hlinkova Garda, was required to arrest and help in the deportion of the Jewish population, which gave them an image of SS troops.

                    The government of Monsingior Tiso began the buildup of the infrastructure of the country and made other gains. The reason for my writing this is because I EXTREMELY detest the labeling of the 1st Republic as " as "Nazi", thus supporting the hanging of the Monsignor, exactly as intended by the communists.

                    I hope that I have demonstrated the fact that were many factors included in forming of the Republic as well as the support of Slovaks. Historians look upon the war fthrough different eyes thean the people who lived it. There was not 100% good in the republic and neither was there 100% bad. The same can be said the rule of communists.

                    Did any of you members ever met Father Augustine Zan, who was a chaplain for the sisters of Sts. Cyril and Method? He was a Secretary to Monsignior Tiso until the end of WW Two. He was good man whose base of existence was to be "First a Priest and Second a Slovak". His story is for another time. Nech Ban Boh dajim Sväteho Pokoji.

                    Vilo

                    ____________ _________ _________ __

                    w entering into the "Politic" of thrFrom: William F Brna <wfbrna@juno. com>

                    To: Slovak-World@ yahoogroups. com

                    Sent: Mon, January 4, 2010 7:11:25 AM

                    Subject: Re: [Slovak-World] Question on decimated village

                    Yes, and there were Slovaks who were not Nazi sympathizers. There are

                    three Brnas listed as "Righteous Gentiles" in the Holocaust Museum in

                    Washington and at Yad Vashem in Israel. The grandfather of one of the

                    families that I have stayed with saved at least three Jewish families.

                    He had double-walled buildings on his farm. Whenever anyone came around,

                    the Jewish families hid between the walls. I stayed at what remained of

                    the farm, but the buildings were no longer in existence.

                    Bill Brna

                    On Mon, 4 Jan 2010 01:57:06 +0000 (UTC) lkocik@comcast. net writes:

                    Helene... et al

                    There were Czechs and Slovaks that profiited from the war at the cost of

                    their countrymen. There were Nazi sympathizers and actuaul Nazi party

                    members among the citizenery of both countries too. This is a gut

                    wrenching and uncomfortable reality but needs to be kept an "in your

                    face" subject. ----- Original Message -----

                    From: votrubam

                    To: Slovak-World@ yahoogroups. com

                    Sent: Sun, 3 Jan 2010 22:26:41 +0000 (UTC)

                    Subject: [Slovak-World] Question on decimated village

                    > My brother-in-law was here the other day and said he

                    > saw a show on the history channel that talked about a

                    > town in Slovakia

                    Time to show him a map of Central Europe, perhaps? Not in Slovakia:

                    <http://tinyurl. com/y924q6a>

                    And as others have said, most people (not all) were killed, not just the

                    children. About 20 percent of the children were spared, because they had

                    traits of the "superior race."

                    Martin

                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                    ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _

                    Diet Help

                    Cheap Diet Help Tips. Click here.
                    http://thirdpartyof fers.juno. com/TGL2141/ c?cp=iwNPpMaYbFg GZu-8-zSI6QAAJ1D 4BwlR4ftpi7iFil_ CpFskAAYAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAADNAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA YQAAAAAA=

                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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                  • votrubam
                    ... I may have misunderstood, Vilo -- Jews were deported from Italy, France, the Netherlands, Belgium, Denmark (very few, because almost all managed to escape
                    Message 9 of 29 , Jan 4, 2010
                      > I have never heard of a village being destroyed in the West
                      > nor do I know of anyone who was killed or deported to a
                      > German Death Camp.

                      I may have misunderstood, Vilo -- Jews were deported from Italy, France, the Netherlands, Belgium, Denmark (very few, because almost all managed to escape to Sweden), Norway... Is that what you meant? And Germany, of course, is the "West," too. Western Europe has not been any less cruel than the rest of the continent.

                      Martin
                    • Ben Sorensen
                      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holocaust_train#Slovakia   Here is a weird take on the expulsion of Jews I found as I was looking for the train routes to
                      Message 10 of 29 , Jan 4, 2010
                        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holocaust_train#Slovakia
                         
                        Here is a weird take on the expulsion of Jews I found as I was looking for the train routes to Oswiecim (Auschwitz). I think whoever wrote this had a chip on their shoulder- and as far as the "facts," I myself couldn't confirm them.  However, Slovakia's actions during the beginning of WWII were less than admirable... I would have to say, though, that if these actions must be "in our faces," let's also remember that a country that many of us call home today also took part in some of the most abominable slave trading- and took even longer to end segregation.   If we look at WWII and America, let's not forget our concentration camps in California and elsewhere, or the SS St. Louis.....
                        or My Lai in Vietnam....
                         
                        Here is a line, a very tame line in comparison to some others, from The Los Angeles Times during WWII:
                        "A viper is nonetheless a viper whenever the egg is hatched - so a Japanese American, born of Japanese parents - grows up to be a Japanese, not an American."
                         
                        I am not saying that America was in any way the equal of Germany, or that Slovakia should be completely exonerated- but the truth is that no country is clean of "sin." Slovakia had alot to repent for by 1942, but SNP proves that there were MANY good men too in Slovakia.  Germans were taken in by Nazi rhetoric, but there were groups of those who opposed the Fuhrer as well (Swing Kids, for example). And in America, people opposed slavery, the interrment of the Japanese, and also our refusal to dock and grant refuge to the SS St. Louis.
                         
                        Since we are on the topic- here is something interesting released by the CIA in 2000- HITLER'S FILE.
                        http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Holocaust/CIAHitler.pdf
                        Ben




                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • William C. Wormuth
                        I m sorry for the typo, I meant in WESTERN SLOVAKIA. ________________________________ From: votrubam To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com
                        Message 11 of 29 , Jan 4, 2010
                          I'm sorry for the typo, I meant in WESTERN SLOVAKIA.




                          ________________________________
                          From: votrubam <votrubam@...>
                          To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com
                          Sent: Mon, January 4, 2010 10:10:04 PM
                          Subject: [Slovak-World] Re: Question on decimated village


                          > I have never heard of a village being destroyed in the West
                          > nor do I know of anyone who was killed or deported to a
                          > German Death Camp.

                          I may have misunderstood, Vilo -- Jews were deported from Italy, France, the Netherlands, Belgium, Denmark (very few, because almost all managed to escape to Sweden), Norway... Is that what you meant? And Germany, of course, is the "West," too. Western Europe has not been any less cruel than the rest of the continent.

                          Martin







                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • Greg
                          Martin: One of my favorite films in Slovak is The Shop on Main Street . The thread that has been running here this week makes me curious. Is there any
                          Message 12 of 29 , Jan 6, 2010
                            Martin:

                            One of my favorite films in Slovak is "The Shop on Main Street".

                            The thread that has been running here this week makes me
                            curious.

                            Is there any historical accuracy to the film?

                            Greg Kopchak


                            --- In Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com, "votrubam" <votrubam@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > > and there were Slovaks who were not Nazi sympathizers. There are
                            > > three Brnas listed as "Righteous Gentiles" in the Holocaust
                            > > Museum in Washington and at Yad Vashem in Israel.
                            >
                            > The list is here, Bill:
                            >
                            > <http://tinyurl.com/ykd93pj>
                            >
                            > It names two Brnos recognized in 1993, no Brna. Unless the people had different last names, the webmasters at Yad Vashem should perhaps be contacted to update the list.
                            >
                            > Martin
                            >
                          • LongJohn Wayne
                            It is best to be objective about history.  While I am sad about the events, I am burdened by no shame or guilt about my former countrymen. I have never been a
                            Message 13 of 29 , Jan 9, 2010
                              It is best to be objective about history.  While I am sad about the events, I am burdened by no shame or guilt about my former countrymen.

                              I have never been a Nazi nor a Communist, nor ever sympathized w/ any of the totalitarians.

                              But to ignore the facts of their existence, or to hide or deny the facts, would only allow their resurgence.

                              --- On Mon, 1/4/10, William F Brna <wfbrna@...> wrote:

                              From: William F Brna <wfbrna@...>
                              Subject: Re: [Slovak-World] Question on decimated village
                              To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com
                              Date: Monday, January 4, 2010, 7:11 AM







                               









                              Yes, and there were Slovaks who were not Nazi sympathizers. There are

                              three Brnas listed as "Righteous Gentiles" in the Holocaust Museum in

                              Washington and at Yad Vashem in Israel. The grandfather of one of the

                              families that I have stayed with saved at least three Jewish families.

                              He had double-walled buildings on his farm. Whenever anyone came around,

                              the Jewish families hid between the walls. I stayed at what remained of

                              the farm, but the buildings were no longer in existence.



                              Bill Brna



                              On Mon, 4 Jan 2010 01:57:06 +0000 (UTC) lkocik@comcast. net writes:



                              Helene... et al

                              There were Czechs and Slovaks that profiited from the war at the cost of

                              their countrymen. There were Nazi sympathizers and actuaul Nazi party

                              members among the citizenery of both countries too. This is a gut

                              wrenching and uncomfortable reality but needs to be kept an "in your

                              face" subject. ----- Original Message -----

                              From: votrubam

                              To: Slovak-World@ yahoogroups. com

                              Sent: Sun, 3 Jan 2010 22:26:41 +0000 (UTC)

                              Subject: [Slovak-World] Question on decimated village



                              > My brother-in-law was here the other day and said he



                              > saw a show on the history channel that talked about a



                              > town in Slovakia



                              Time to show him a map of Central Europe, perhaps? Not in Slovakia:



                              <http://tinyurl. com/y924q6a>



                              And as others have said, most people (not all) were killed, not just the

                              children. About 20 percent of the children were spared, because they had

                              traits of the "superior race."



                              Martin



                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



                              ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _

                              Diet Help

                              Cheap Diet Help Tips. Click here.

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                            • lkocik@comcast.net
                              Those are my sentiments too, especially your last sentence. I might add that I have such a deep hatred for all things Nazi that it effects my judgement and
                              Message 14 of 29 , Jan 9, 2010
                                Those are my sentiments too, especially your last sentence. I might add that I have such a deep hatred for all things Nazi that it effects my judgement and reasoning.
                                I started that thread but "dropped out" very soon. I realized it was offensive to some subscribers.
                                My intention wasn't to point a finger or cast blame ...I was only trying to ferret out the truth and stimulate conversation on the subject. I still think it is a valid subject to pursue,and I will, but not on this forum. I've never checked the by-laws for subject matter but notice the atmosphere here is more light hearted and up beat, and I don't want to rain on anyone's parade. I enjoy this forum for what it is and I'll leave it at that.
                                Thank you for your support
                                Larry ----- Original Message -----
                                From: LongJohn Wayne
                                To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com
                                Sent: Sun, 10 Jan 2010 04:22:44 +0000 (UTC)
                                Subject: Re: [Slovak-World] Question on decimated village













                                It is best to be objective about history. While I am sad about the events, I am burdened by no shame or guilt about my former countrymen.



                                I have never been a Nazi nor a Communist, nor ever sympathized w/ any of the totalitarians.



                                But to ignore the facts of their existence, or to hide or deny the facts, would only allow their resurgence.



                                --- On Mon, 1/4/10, William F Brna <wfbrna@...> wrote:



                                From: William F Brna <wfbrna@...>


                                Subject: Re: [Slovak-World] Question on decimated village


                                To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com


                                Date: Monday, January 4, 2010, 7:11 AM







                                Yes, and there were Slovaks who were not Nazi sympathizers. There are



                                three Brnas listed as "Righteous Gentiles" in the Holocaust Museum in



                                Washington and at Yad Vashem in Israel. The grandfather of one of the



                                families that I have stayed with saved at least three Jewish families.



                                He had double-walled buildings on his farm. Whenever anyone came around,



                                the Jewish families hid between the walls. I stayed at what remained of



                                the farm, but the buildings were no longer in existence.



                                Bill Brna



                                On Mon, 4 Jan 2010 01:57:06 +0000 (UTC) lkocik@comcast. net writes:



                                Helene... et al



                                There were Czechs and Slovaks that profiited from the war at the cost of



                                their countrymen. There were Nazi sympathizers and actuaul Nazi party



                                members among the citizenery of both countries too. This is a gut



                                wrenching and uncomfortable reality but needs to be kept an "in your



                                face" subject. ----- Original Message -----



                                From: votrubam



                                To: Slovak-World@ yahoogroups. com



                                Sent: Sun, 3 Jan 2010 22:26:41 +0000 (UTC)



                                Subject: [Slovak-World] Question on decimated village



                                > My brother-in-law was here the other day and said he



                                > saw a show on the history channel that talked about a



                                > town in Slovakia



                                Time to show him a map of Central Europe, perhaps? Not in Slovakia:



                                <http://tinyurl. com/y924q6a>



                                And as others have said, most people (not all) were killed, not just the



                                children. About 20 percent of the children were spared, because they had



                                traits of the "superior race."



                                Martin



                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



                                ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _



                                Diet Help



                                Cheap Diet Help Tips. Click here.

                                http://thirdpartyof fers.juno. com/TGL2141/ c?cp=iwNPpMaYbFg GZu-8-zSI6QAAJ1D 4BwlR4ftpi7iFil_ CpFskAAYAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAADNAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA YQAAAAAA=



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                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              • LongJohn Wayne
                                We can become what we hate. Where else do you post, Larry?  You sound like an interesting blogger.  Some here have very interesting travel blogs, even though
                                Message 15 of 29 , Jan 10, 2010
                                  We can become what we hate.

                                  Where else do you post, Larry?  You sound like an interesting blogger.  Some here have very interesting travel blogs, even though I may not agree on opinions re: other subjects.

                                  I appreciate their posts

                                  --- On Sun, 1/10/10, lkocik@... <lkocik@...> wrote:

                                  From: lkocik@... <lkocik@...>
                                  Subject: Re: [Slovak-World] Question on decimated village
                                  To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com
                                  Date: Sunday, January 10, 2010, 1:00 AM







                                   









                                  Those are my sentiments too, especially your last sentence. I might add that I have such a deep hatred for all things Nazi that it effects my judgement and reasoning.

                                  I started that thread but "dropped out" very soon. I realized it was offensive to some subscribers.

                                  My intention wasn't to point a finger or cast blame ...I was only trying to ferret out the truth and stimulate conversation on the subject. I still think it is a valid subject to pursue,and I will, but not on this forum. I've never checked the by-laws for subject matter but notice the atmosphere here is more light hearted and up beat, and I don't want to rain on anyone's parade. I enjoy this forum for what it is and I'll leave it at that.

                                  Thank you for your support

                                  Larry ----- Original Message -----

                                  From: LongJohn Wayne

                                  To: Slovak-World@ yahoogroups. com

                                  Sent: Sun, 10 Jan 2010 04:22:44 +0000 (UTC)

                                  Subject: Re: [Slovak-World] Question on decimated village



                                  It is best to be objective about history. While I am sad about the events, I am burdened by no shame or guilt about my former countrymen.



                                  I have never been a Nazi nor a Communist, nor ever sympathized w/ any of the totalitarians.



                                  But to ignore the facts of their existence, or to hide or deny the facts, would only allow their resurgence.



                                  --- On Mon, 1/4/10, William F Brna <wfbrna@juno. com> wrote:



                                  From: William F Brna <wfbrna@juno. com>



                                  Subject: Re: [Slovak-World] Question on decimated village



                                  To: Slovak-World@ yahoogroups. com



                                  Date: Monday, January 4, 2010, 7:11 AM



                                  Yes, and there were Slovaks who were not Nazi sympathizers. There are



                                  three Brnas listed as "Righteous Gentiles" in the Holocaust Museum in



                                  Washington and at Yad Vashem in Israel. The grandfather of one of the



                                  families that I have stayed with saved at least three Jewish families.



                                  He had double-walled buildings on his farm. Whenever anyone came around,



                                  the Jewish families hid between the walls. I stayed at what remained of



                                  the farm, but the buildings were no longer in existence.



                                  Bill Brna



                                  On Mon, 4 Jan 2010 01:57:06 +0000 (UTC) lkocik@comcast. net writes:



                                  Helene... et al



                                  There were Czechs and Slovaks that profiited from the war at the cost of



                                  their countrymen. There were Nazi sympathizers and actuaul Nazi party



                                  members among the citizenery of both countries too. This is a gut



                                  wrenching and uncomfortable reality but needs to be kept an "in your



                                  face" subject. ----- Original Message -----



                                  From: votrubam



                                  To: Slovak-World@ yahoogroups. com



                                  Sent: Sun, 3 Jan 2010 22:26:41 +0000 (UTC)



                                  Subject: [Slovak-World] Question on decimated village



                                  > My brother-in-law was here the other day and said he



                                  > saw a show on the history channel that talked about a



                                  > town in Slovakia



                                  Time to show him a map of Central Europe, perhaps? Not in Slovakia:



                                  <http://tinyurl. com/y924q6a>



                                  And as others have said, most people (not all) were killed, not just the



                                  children. About 20 percent of the children were spared, because they had



                                  traits of the "superior race."



                                  Martin



                                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



                                  ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _



                                  Diet Help



                                  Cheap Diet Help Tips. Click here.



                                  http://thirdpartyof fers.juno. com/TGL2141/ c?cp=iwNPpMaYbFg GZu-8-zSI6QAAJ1D 4BwlR4ftpi7iFil_ CpFskAAYAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAADNAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA YQAAAAAA=



                                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



                                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



                                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

























                                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                • lkocik@comcast.net
                                  John Sorry for the lag in responding. Becoming what we hate is too true, especially the intolerance and looking for blame aspect .That s why I need to get more
                                  Message 16 of 29 , Jan 14, 2010
                                    John
                                    Sorry for the lag in responding.
                                    Becoming what we hate is too true, especially the intolerance and looking for blame aspect .That's why I need to get more understanding of those times.
                                    Thank you for your compliment. As for posting on other sites; I can barely keep up with what goes on here and over at the sister site on Slovak genealogy. Do you have any favorites?I always look for fresh perspectives and opposing views.
                                    Larry.

                                    ----- Original Message -----
                                    From: LongJohn Wayne
                                    To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com
                                    Sent: Sun, 10 Jan 2010 19:20:17 +0000 (UTC)
                                    Subject: Re: [Slovak-World] Question on decimated village













                                    We can become what we hate.



                                    Where else do you post, Larry? You sound like an interesting blogger. Some here have very interesting travel blogs, even though I may not agree on opinions re: other subjects.



                                    I appreciate their posts



                                    --- On Sun, 1/10/10, lkocik@... <lkocik@...> wrote:



                                    From: lkocik@... <lkocik@...>


                                    Subject: Re: [Slovak-World] Question on decimated village


                                    To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com


                                    Date: Sunday, January 10, 2010, 1:00 AM







                                    Those are my sentiments too, especially your last sentence. I might add that I have such a deep hatred for all things Nazi that it effects my judgement and reasoning.



                                    I started that thread but "dropped out" very soon. I realized it was offensive to some subscribers.



                                    My intention wasn't to point a finger or cast blame ...I was only trying to ferret out the truth and stimulate conversation on the subject. I still think it is a valid subject to pursue,and I will, but not on this forum. I've never checked the by-laws for subject matter but notice the atmosphere here is more light hearted and up beat, and I don't want to rain on anyone's parade. I enjoy this forum for what it is and I'll leave it at that.



                                    Thank you for your support



                                    Larry ----- Original Message -----



                                    From: LongJohn Wayne



                                    To: Slovak-World@ yahoogroups. com



                                    Sent: Sun, 10 Jan 2010 04:22:44 +0000 (UTC)



                                    Subject: Re: [Slovak-World] Question on decimated village



                                    It is best to be objective about history. While I am sad about the events, I am burdened by no shame or guilt about my former countrymen.



                                    I have never been a Nazi nor a Communist, nor ever sympathized w/ any of the totalitarians.



                                    But to ignore the facts of their existence, or to hide or deny the facts, would only allow their resurgence.



                                    --- On Mon, 1/4/10, William F Brna <wfbrna@juno. com> wrote:



                                    From: William F Brna <wfbrna@juno. com>



                                    Subject: Re: [Slovak-World] Question on decimated village



                                    To: Slovak-World@ yahoogroups. com



                                    Date: Monday, January 4, 2010, 7:11 AM



                                    Yes, and there were Slovaks who were not Nazi sympathizers. There are



                                    three Brnas listed as "Righteous Gentiles" in the Holocaust Museum in



                                    Washington and at Yad Vashem in Israel. The grandfather of one of the



                                    families that I have stayed with saved at least three Jewish families.



                                    He had double-walled buildings on his farm. Whenever anyone came around,



                                    the Jewish families hid between the walls. I stayed at what remained of



                                    the farm, but the buildings were no longer in existence.



                                    Bill Brna



                                    On Mon, 4 Jan 2010 01:57:06 +0000 (UTC) lkocik@comcast. net writes:



                                    Helene... et al



                                    There were Czechs and Slovaks that profiited from the war at the cost of



                                    their countrymen. There were Nazi sympathizers and actuaul Nazi party



                                    members among the citizenery of both countries too. This is a gut



                                    wrenching and uncomfortable reality but needs to be kept an "in your



                                    face" subject. ----- Original Message -----



                                    From: votrubam



                                    To: Slovak-World@ yahoogroups. com



                                    Sent: Sun, 3 Jan 2010 22:26:41 +0000 (UTC)



                                    Subject: [Slovak-World] Question on decimated village



                                    > My brother-in-law was here the other day and said he



                                    > saw a show on the history channel that talked about a



                                    > town in Slovakia



                                    Time to show him a map of Central Europe, perhaps? Not in Slovakia:



                                    <http://tinyurl. com/y924q6a>



                                    And as others have said, most people (not all) were killed, not just the



                                    children. About 20 percent of the children were spared, because they had



                                    traits of the "superior race."



                                    Martin



                                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



                                    ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _



                                    Diet Help



                                    Cheap Diet Help Tips. Click here.

                                    http://thirdpartyof fers.juno. com/TGL2141/ c?cp=iwNPpMaYbFg GZu-8-zSI6QAAJ1D 4BwlR4ftpi7iFil_ CpFskAAYAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAADNAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA YQAAAAAA=



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