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Re: Ledice, Czech RE: [Slovak-World] Question on decimated village

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  • William C. Wormuth
    I believe you are right. Helene he (or someone) might have been confused with Letnic~e in Western Slovakia. Vilo ________________________________ From:
    Message 1 of 29 , Jan 3, 2010
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      I believe you are right. Helene he (or someone) might have been confused with Letnic~e in Western Slovakia.

      Vilo




      ________________________________
      From: Plichta <plichta@...>
      To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Sun, January 3, 2010 3:42:33 PM
      Subject: Ledice, Czech RE: [Slovak-World] Question on decimated village


      Helene,

      The village is the Czech village of Ledice.

      See the item at the following Url:

      http://holocaust- forum.blogspot. com/2009/ 06/nazis- liquidate- lidice-czech- vil
      lage-in.html

      fRANK

      _____

      From: Slovak-World@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:Slovak-World@ yahoogroups. com] On
      Behalf Of helene cincebeaux
      Sent: Sunday, January 03, 2010 2:59 PM
      To: Slovak-World@ yahoogroups. com
      Subject: Re: [Slovak-World] Question on decimated village

      Wonder if anyone can help? I got this question
      My brother-in-law was here the other day and said he saw a show on the
      history channel that talked about a town in Slovakia (during WW II) that was
      attacked by the Nazis and all of the children in this town where killed.
      Today, there is a shrine in this town with the names of all of the slain
      children on it. Do you know the name of this town or any other information
      concerning this matter. I have checked all of the information I have and I
      cannot find anything.

      I wondered if it might have been Sklabina where some 30 young men and
      older ones were executed by the German soldiers in retaliation.

      Does anyone know of another where only children were murdered?

      helene

      ____________ _________ _________ __

      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Rick Sonzella
      Helene, I also had seen that show but it was a while ago. The Nazis killed everyone in the town including all of the children in retaliation for an underground
      Message 2 of 29 , Jan 3, 2010
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        Helene,
        I also had seen that show but it was a while ago. The Nazis killed everyone in the town including all of the children in retaliation for an underground attack on the Officer in charge of Czechoslovakia. The shrine is a life size bronze of all the children. If you use google earth you can search for it and it has pictures of the remnants of the town and the Monument.

        Rick Sonzella




        ________________________________
        From: helene cincebeaux <helenezx@...>
        To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups..com
        Sent: Sun, January 3, 2010 2:59:15 PM
        Subject: Re: [Slovak-World] Question on decimated village


        Wonder if anyone can help? I got this question
        My brother-in-law was here the other day and said he saw a show on the history channel that talked about a town in Slovakia (during WW II) that was attacked by the Nazis and all of the children in this town where killed. Today, there is a shrine in this town with the names of all of the slain children on it. Do you know the name of this town or any other information concerning this matter. I have checked all of the information I have and I cannot find anything.

        I wondered if it might have been Sklabina where some 30 young men and older ones were executed by the German soldiers in retaliation.

        Does anyone know of another where only children were murdered?

        helene

        ____________ _________ _________ __

        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Ben Sorensen
        I believe you all mean Lidice. :-) However, if memory serves me, the men here were all killed on the spot, women sent to the camps, and children taken to
        Message 3 of 29 , Jan 3, 2010
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          I believe you all mean Lidice. :-) However, if memory serves me, the men here were all killed on the spot, women sent to the camps, and children taken to Germany- most gassed. There are some beautiful memorials to the people and the children....
          Ben




          ________________________________
          From: William C. Wormuth <senzus@...>
          To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Sun, January 3, 2010 4:16:55 PM
          Subject: Re: Ledice, Czech RE: [Slovak-World] Question on decimated village

           
          I believe you are right. Helene he (or someone) might have been confused with Letnic~e in Western Slovakia.

          Vilo

          ____________ _________ _________ __
          From: Plichta <plichta@earthlink. net>
          To: Slovak-World@ yahoogroups. com
          Sent: Sun, January 3, 2010 3:42:33 PM
          Subject: Ledice, Czech RE: [Slovak-World] Question on decimated village

          Helene,

          The village is the Czech village of Ledice.

          See the item at the following Url:

          http://holocaust- forum.blogspot. com/2009/ 06/nazis- liquidate- lidice-czech- vil
          lage-in.html

          fRANK

          _____

          From: Slovak-World@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:Slovak- World@ yahoogroups. com] On
          Behalf Of helene cincebeaux
          Sent: Sunday, January 03, 2010 2:59 PM
          To: Slovak-World@ yahoogroups. com
          Subject: Re: [Slovak-World] Question on decimated village

          Wonder if anyone can help? I got this question
          My brother-in-law was here the other day and said he saw a show on the
          history channel that talked about a town in Slovakia (during WW II) that was
          attacked by the Nazis and all of the children in this town where killed.
          Today, there is a shrine in this town with the names of all of the slain
          children on it. Do you know the name of this town or any other information
          concerning this matter. I have checked all of the information I have and I
          cannot find anything.

          I wondered if it might have been Sklabina where some 30 young men and
          older ones were executed by the German soldiers in retaliation.

          Does anyone know of another where only children were murdered?

          helene

          ____________ _________ _________ __

          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • votrubam
          ... Time to show him a map of Central Europe, perhaps? Not in Slovakia: And as others have said, most people (not all) were
          Message 4 of 29 , Jan 3, 2010
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            > My brother-in-law was here the other day and said he
            > saw a show on the history channel that talked about a
            > town in Slovakia

            Time to show him a map of Central Europe, perhaps? Not in Slovakia:

            <http://tinyurl.com/y924q6a>

            And as others have said, most people (not all) were killed, not just the children. About 20 percent of the children were spared, because they had traits of the "superior race."

            Martin
          • helene cincebeaux
            Thank you all so much for your speedy replies to a very sad subject - i will pass this on to my friend and she can enlighten her relative. helene
            Message 5 of 29 , Jan 3, 2010
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              Thank you all so much for your speedy replies to a very sad subject - i will pass this on to my friend and she can enlighten her relative.

              helene




              ________________________________
              From: votrubam <votrubam@...>
              To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Sun, January 3, 2010 5:26:41 PM
              Subject: [Slovak-World] Question on decimated village

               
              > My brother-in-law was here the other day and said he
              > saw a show on the history channel that talked about a
              > town in Slovakia

              Time to show him a map of Central Europe, perhaps? Not in Slovakia:

              <http://tinyurl. com/y924q6a>

              And as others have said, most people (not all) were killed, not just the children. About 20 percent of the children were spared, because they had traits of the "superior race."

              Martin







              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Ron
              The nazis leveled the village of Sambron (¹ambron) a little SE of Stara Lubovna. That is from a report from a Jakubany man living in Stara Lubovna. Looking
              Message 6 of 29 , Jan 3, 2010
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                The nazis leveled the village of Sambron (¹ambron) a little SE of Stara Lubovna. That is from a report from a Jakubany man living in Stara Lubovna. Looking on the web, it seems Jan 23 1945 was the day & it was in revenge for Partizans basing themselves out of the village. There is mention of 145 houses being leveled, but no mention of children or slaughter of the population. So perhaps this is not the place.
                Ron
                http://www.sambron.ocu.sk/sk/index.php?ids=4
                http://www.saris.eu.sk/sambron/en


                --- In Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com, helene cincebeaux <helenezx@...> wrote:
                >
                > Wonder if anyone can help? I got this question
                > My brother-in-law was here the other day and said he saw a show on the history channel that talked about a town in Slovakia (during WW II) that was attacked by the Nazis and all of the children in this town where killed.  Today, there is a shrine in this town with the names of all of the slain children on it.  Do you know the name of this town or any other information concerning this matter.  I have checked all of the information I have and I cannot find anything.
                >  
                >     I wondered if it might have been Sklabina where some 30 young men and older ones were executed by the German soldiers in retaliation.
                >  
                >    Does anyone know of another where only children were murdered?
                >
                > helene
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > ________________________________
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >
              • lkocik@comcast.net
                Helene... et al Lidice was one of the most notorius, but there were others; Sklene, and Klak were two. You can google world war 2+Slovakia+massacre . Be
                Message 7 of 29 , Jan 3, 2010
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                  Helene... et al
                  Lidice was one of the most notorius, but there were others; Sklene, and Klak were two. You can google "world war 2+Slovakia+massacre".
                  Be forwarned; if you study genealogy for that "warm fuzzy feeling", of bringing your ancestors' stories to life, or out of pride of your heritage, you might not want to open this pandoras' box.
                  I take great pride in my heritage, but it's tempered with the reality that my ancestors were only human. I was a conscientious objector medic in viet nam but that couldn't protect me from having to participate in the total destruction of villiages that were deemed to be harboring V.C. sympathizers. I vividly recall Marines calling women "breeders" and children "future V.C.". In WW2, British planes massacred 42,000 civilians of Dresden in retribution. What I'm trying to say is; althought I personaly think the Nazi's were the most incidiously evil people that ever walked the earth, when you talk about the atrocities of war you can't always single out one group. It's "man's inhumanity to man" at it's worst and what war is all about.
                  There were Czechs and Slovaks that profiited from the war at the cost of their countrymen. There were Nazi sympathizers and actuaul Nazi party members among the citizenery of both countries too. This is a gut wrenching and uncomfortable reality but needs to be kept an "in your face" subject. ----- Original Message -----
                  From: votrubam
                  To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com
                  Sent: Sun, 3 Jan 2010 22:26:41 +0000 (UTC)
                  Subject: [Slovak-World] Question on decimated village













                  > My brother-in-law was here the other day and said he


                  > saw a show on the history channel that talked about a


                  > town in Slovakia



                  Time to show him a map of Central Europe, perhaps? Not in Slovakia:



                  <http://tinyurl.com/y924q6a>



                  And as others have said, most people (not all) were killed, not just the children. About 20 percent of the children were spared, because they had traits of the "superior race."



                  Martin








                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • Nick Holcz
                  Helene, FYI On May 27, 1942, SS Obergruppenführer Reinhard Heydrich, Deputy Reich Protector of Bohemia and Moravia, had been attacked in Prague by Free Czech
                  Message 8 of 29 , Jan 3, 2010
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                    Helene, FYI
                    On May 27, 1942, SS Obergruppenführer Reinhard
                    Heydrich, Deputy Reich Protector of Bohemia and
                    Moravia, had been attacked in Prague by Free
                    Czech agents who were trained in England and
                    brought to Czechoslovakia to assassinate him.
                    They shot at Heydrich as his car slowed to round
                    a sharp turn, then threw a bomb which exploded,
                    mortally wounding him. Heydrich managed to get
                    out of the car, draw his pistol and shoot back at
                    the assassins before collapsing in the street.

                    Heydrich survived for several days, but died on
                    June 4 from blood poisoning brought on by
                    fragments of auto upholstery, steel, and his own
                    uniform that had lodged in his spleen.

                    In Berlin, the Nazis staged a highly elaborate
                    funeral with Hitler calling Heydrich "the man with the iron heart."

                    Meanwhile the Gestapo and SS hunted down and
                    murdered Czech agents, resistance members, and
                    anyone suspected of being involved in Heydrich's
                    death, totaling over 1000 persons. In addition,
                    3000 Jews were deported from the ghetto at
                    Theresienstadt for extermination. In Berlin 500
                    Jews were arrested, with 152 executed as a
                    reprisal on the day of Heydrich's death.

                    As a further reprisal, Hitler ordered the small
                    Czech mining village of Lidice to be liquidated
                    on the fake charge that it had aided the assassins.

                    In one of the most infamous single acts of World
                    War Two, all 172 men and boys over age 16 in the
                    village were shot while the women were deported
                    to Ravensbrück concentration camp where most
                    died. Ninety young children were sent to the
                    concentration camp at Gneisenau, with some taken
                    later to Nazi orphanages if they were German looking.

                    The village of Lidice was then destroyed building
                    by building with explosives, then completely
                    leveled until not a trace remained, with grain
                    being planted over the flattened soil. The name
                    was then removed from all German maps.

                    " when I was about 15 I read a book about this
                    and I told my father about the book, obviously he
                    knew all about it even where the men were trained."

                    Nick



                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • William F Brna
                    Yes, and there were Slovaks who were not Nazi sympathizers. There are three Brnas listed as Righteous Gentiles in the Holocaust Museum in Washington and at
                    Message 9 of 29 , Jan 4, 2010
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                      Yes, and there were Slovaks who were not Nazi sympathizers. There are
                      three Brnas listed as "Righteous Gentiles" in the Holocaust Museum in
                      Washington and at Yad Vashem in Israel. The grandfather of one of the
                      families that I have stayed with saved at least three Jewish families.
                      He had double-walled buildings on his farm. Whenever anyone came around,
                      the Jewish families hid between the walls. I stayed at what remained of
                      the farm, but the buildings were no longer in existence.

                      Bill Brna

                      On Mon, 4 Jan 2010 01:57:06 +0000 (UTC) lkocik@... writes:

                      Helene... et al
                      There were Czechs and Slovaks that profiited from the war at the cost of
                      their countrymen. There were Nazi sympathizers and actuaul Nazi party
                      members among the citizenery of both countries too. This is a gut
                      wrenching and uncomfortable reality but needs to be kept an "in your
                      face" subject. ----- Original Message -----
                      From: votrubam
                      To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com
                      Sent: Sun, 3 Jan 2010 22:26:41 +0000 (UTC)
                      Subject: [Slovak-World] Question on decimated village

                      > My brother-in-law was here the other day and said he

                      > saw a show on the history channel that talked about a

                      > town in Slovakia

                      Time to show him a map of Central Europe, perhaps? Not in Slovakia:

                      <http://tinyurl.com/y924q6a>

                      And as others have said, most people (not all) were killed, not just the
                      children. About 20 percent of the children were spared, because they had
                      traits of the "superior race."

                      Martin

                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



                      ____________________________________________________________
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                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • dragansk
                      Evidently a number of Slovak towns were destroyed as a result of partisan activity. On my first visit to Slovakia, I asked our relatives in the small town of
                      Message 10 of 29 , Jan 4, 2010
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                        Evidently a number of Slovak towns were destroyed as a result of partisan activity. On my first visit to Slovakia, I asked our relatives in the small town of Turcovce, north of Humenne, if the house I thought my father was born in was actually the same house. That's when we learned that, because a German officer was killed by partisans in that area, the Germans marched everyone from Turcovce to the top of a nearby hill so that they could watch their homes being burned to the ground. The homes in Turcovce were later rebuilt.
                        Dennis


                        --- In Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com, "Ron" <amiak27@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > The nazis leveled the village of Sambron (¹ambron) a little SE of Stara Lubovna. That is from a report from a Jakubany man living in Stara Lubovna. Looking on the web, it seems Jan 23 1945 was the day & it was in revenge for Partizans basing themselves out of the village. There is mention of 145 houses being leveled, but no mention of children or slaughter of the population. So perhaps this is not the place.
                        > Ron
                        > http://www.sambron.ocu.sk/sk/index.php?ids=4
                        > http://www.saris.eu.sk/sambron/en
                        >
                        >
                        > --- In Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com, helene cincebeaux <helenezx@> wrote:
                        > >
                        > > Wonder if anyone can help? I got this question
                        > > My brother-in-law was here the other day and said he saw a show on the history channel that talked about a town in Slovakia (during WW II) that was attacked by the Nazis and all of the children in this town where killed.  Today, there is a shrine in this town with the names of all of the slain children on it.  Do you know the name of this town or any other information concerning this matter.  I have checked all of the information I have and I cannot find anything.
                        > >  
                        > >     I wondered if it might have been Sklabina where some 30 young men and older ones were executed by the German soldiers in retaliation.
                        > >  
                        > >    Does anyone know of another where only children were murdered?
                        > >
                        > > helene
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > ________________________________
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        > >
                        >
                      • votrubam
                        ... The list is here, Bill: It names two Brnos recognized in 1993, no Brna. Unless the people had different last names, the
                        Message 11 of 29 , Jan 4, 2010
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                          > and there were Slovaks who were not Nazi sympathizers. There are
                          > three Brnas listed as "Righteous Gentiles" in the Holocaust
                          > Museum in Washington and at Yad Vashem in Israel.

                          The list is here, Bill:

                          <http://tinyurl.com/ykd93pj>

                          It names two Brnos recognized in 1993, no Brna. Unless the people had different last names, the webmasters at Yad Vashem should perhaps be contacted to update the list.

                          Martin
                        • William F Brna
                          Martin, Possibly I was misinformed. I was told by the grandson of one of the men who was supposedly on the list, that he and two other Brnas were on the list.
                          Message 12 of 29 , Jan 4, 2010
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                            Martin,

                            Possibly I was misinformed. I was told by the grandson of one of the men
                            who was supposedly on the list, that he and two other Brnas were on the
                            list. He also gave me the name of one of the men who was saved by his
                            grandfather's efforts. I had no reason to doubt what he told me since
                            the information was unsolicited, however, I will do my best to verify its
                            accuracy.

                            Bill Brna

                            On Mon, 04 Jan 2010 15:19:41 -0000 "votrubam" <votrubam@...>
                            writes:

                            > and there were Slovaks who were not Nazi sympathizers. There are
                            > three Brnas listed as "Righteous Gentiles" in the Holocaust
                            > Museum in Washington and at Yad Vashem in Israel.

                            The list is here, Bill:

                            <http://tinyurl.com/ykd93pj>

                            It names two Brnos recognized in 1993, no Brna. Unless the people had
                            different last names, the webmasters at Yad Vashem should perhaps be
                            contacted to update the list.

                            Martin



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                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          • William C. Wormuth
                            We are now entering into the politics of the First Republic, formed by Monsignor Jozef Tiso. I believe that he formed the Republic, legitimately, for the good
                            Message 13 of 29 , Jan 4, 2010
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                              We are now entering into the politics of the First Republic, formed by Monsignor Jozef Tiso.

                              I believe that he formed the Republic, legitimately, for the good and (safety), of the Slovak people. I do not support the propaganda that Monsignor Tiso was a "Nazi, who supported the killing of the Jewish and Gypsy populations".

                              Before the formation of the 1st Republic, (and following the war, up to the 2nd Republic), the Czech led Governments treated the Slovaks as second class citizens, who were not capable of anything except farming and labor. The original agreements of the Dohoda were put aside by Tomas Masaryk. For example, (which some might consider Unimportant but which effected many Slovaks) was, Republic was to be oficially named, CzechoSlovakia. Later, the government "dropped the capital "S" and Slovaks remained second class.


                              School children were obliged to learn Czech and Slovaks had little or no political voice.
                              In My Grandmothers village, (Kúty), in western Slovakia had a mayor, who had his position because his wife was Czech. All business, with the exceptionof restaurants and bars, in the village were owned by people who were Jews.

                              The Envy and in some cases hatred of Jews, stemmed from the Hungarian rule. The King appointed the Jews as tax collectors, in order to clear his name as a tax collector. The statement I heard from our people, when I was a child was, "The Magyars took 50% and the Jews 40% and we ad to live on the remaining 10% of our incomes.".


                              The dreams of the Slovaks in the afore mentioned film, were no different than those of our immegrant forefathers. They wanted to improve their lives and perhaps someday to return home and have their own businesses.


                              The film, shop on Main Street, ( Obchod na Korze ), was meant as a " Propaganda tool", for the Czechoslovak Communist Government alienate any Political influence of the Slovaks.

                              The dreams of the Slovaks in the film, were no different than those of our immigrant forefathers. They wanted to improve their lives and perhaps someday to return home and have their own businesses.


                              Following the realization that the German Nazi's were killing these people our people began to hide Jews in homes and factories.

                              It was unfortunate that the Slovak "army", Hlinkova Garda, was required to arrest and help in the deportion of the Jewish population, which gave them an image of SS troops.

                              The government of Monsingior Tiso began the buildup of the infrastructure of the country and made other gains. The reason for my writing this is because I EXTREMELY detest the labeling of the 1st Republic as " as "Nazi", thus supporting the hanging of the Monsignor, exactly as intended by the communists.

                              I hope that I have demonstrated the fact that were many factors included in forming of the Republic as well as the support of Slovaks. Historians look upon the war fthrough different eyes thean the people who lived it. There was not 100% good in the republic and neither was there 100% bad. The same can be said the rule of communists.

                              Did any of you members ever met Father Augustine Zan, who was a chaplain for the sisters of Sts. Cyril and Method? He was a Secretary to Monsignior Tiso until the end of WW Two. He was good man whose base of existence was to be "First a Priest and Second a Slovak". His story is for another time. Nech Ban Boh dajim Sväteho Pokoji.

                              Vilo











                              ________________________________
                              w entering into the "Politic" of thrFrom: William F Brna <wfbrna@...>
                              To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com
                              Sent: Mon, January 4, 2010 7:11:25 AM
                              Subject: Re: [Slovak-World] Question on decimated village


                              Yes, and there were Slovaks who were not Nazi sympathizers. There are
                              three Brnas listed as "Righteous Gentiles" in the Holocaust Museum in
                              Washington and at Yad Vashem in Israel. The grandfather of one of the
                              families that I have stayed with saved at least three Jewish families.
                              He had double-walled buildings on his farm. Whenever anyone came around,
                              the Jewish families hid between the walls. I stayed at what remained of
                              the farm, but the buildings were no longer in existence.

                              Bill Brna

                              On Mon, 4 Jan 2010 01:57:06 +0000 (UTC) lkocik@comcast. net writes:

                              Helene... et al
                              There were Czechs and Slovaks that profiited from the war at the cost of
                              their countrymen. There were Nazi sympathizers and actuaul Nazi party
                              members among the citizenery of both countries too. This is a gut
                              wrenching and uncomfortable reality but needs to be kept an "in your
                              face" subject. ----- Original Message -----
                              From: votrubam
                              To: Slovak-World@ yahoogroups. com
                              Sent: Sun, 3 Jan 2010 22:26:41 +0000 (UTC)
                              Subject: [Slovak-World] Question on decimated village

                              > My brother-in-law was here the other day and said he

                              > saw a show on the history channel that talked about a

                              > town in Slovakia

                              Time to show him a map of Central Europe, perhaps? Not in Slovakia:

                              <http://tinyurl. com/y924q6a>

                              And as others have said, most people (not all) were killed, not just the
                              children. About 20 percent of the children were spared, because they had
                              traits of the "superior race."

                              Martin

                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                              ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _
                              Diet Help
                              Cheap Diet Help Tips. Click here.
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                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            • lkocik@comcast.net
                              Vilo Please.. write more on this subject. You obviously have intense feelings and a deep base of knowledge on this era of Slovak history. I tried to provoke
                              Message 14 of 29 , Jan 4, 2010
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                                Vilo
                                Please.. write more on this subject. You obviously have intense feelings and a deep base of knowledge on this era of Slovak history.
                                I tried to provoke some meaningful dialouge with my email on the subject but fear I might have came across as too abrasive, or negative. I also feel I stepped on some toes by too casually mentioning the ties some[ an extremely small minority] Slovaks had with the Nazi party.I'm sorry for the way I phrased it, I wasn't trying to imply anything. I have no jewish blood that I'm aware of, but
                                ever since my childhood, nothing has upset me more than the holacost....
                                What I can't understand is how everyone including the catholic church, turned a blind eye to it. But there again, I'm expressing my personal, pathetic, emotional opion. I'm not looking to blame any one group ...and without living there in those times, and with my very limited "textbook" knowledge, I have no right to form any opion.
                                That's what leads me to respectfully ask for your insight on those years between the great wars.
                                The thought has also crossed my mind that maybe this forum is not the proper place for this subject, so if anyone objects please feel free to tell me.
                                Thank you Vilo and the others that have replied.
                                Larry Kocik----- Original Message -----
                                From: William C. Wormuth
                                To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com
                                Sent: Mon, 4 Jan 2010 19:35:46 +0000 (UTC)
                                Subject: Re: [Slovak-World] Question on decimated village













                                We are now entering into the politics of the First Republic, formed by Monsignor Jozef Tiso.



                                I believe that he formed the Republic, legitimately, for the good and (safety), of the Slovak people. I do not support the propaganda that Monsignor Tiso was a "Nazi, who supported the killing of the Jewish and Gypsy populations".



                                Before the formation of the 1st Republic, (and following the war, up to the 2nd Republic), the Czech led Governments treated the Slovaks as second class citizens, who were not capable of anything except farming and labor. The original agreements of the Dohoda were put aside by Tomas Masaryk. For example, (which some might consider Unimportant but which effected many Slovaks) was, Republic was to be oficially named, CzechoSlovakia. Later, the government "dropped the capital "S" and Slovaks remained second class.



                                School children were obliged to learn Czech and Slovaks had little or no political voice.


                                In My Grandmothers village, (Kúty), in western Slovakia had a mayor, who had his position because his wife was Czech. All business, with the exceptionof restaurants and bars, in the village were owned by people who were Jews.



                                The Envy and in some cases hatred of Jews, stemmed from the Hungarian rule. The King appointed the Jews as tax collectors, in order to clear his name as a tax collector. The statement I heard from our people, when I was a child was, "The Magyars took 50% and the Jews 40% and we ad to live on the remaining 10% of our incomes.".



                                The dreams of the Slovaks in the afore mentioned film, were no different than those of our immegrant forefathers. They wanted to improve their lives and perhaps someday to return home and have their own businesses.



                                The film, shop on Main Street, ( Obchod na Korze ), was meant as a " Propaganda tool", for the Czechoslovak Communist Government alienate any Political influence of the Slovaks.



                                The dreams of the Slovaks in the film, were no different than those of our immigrant forefathers. They wanted to improve their lives and perhaps someday to return home and have their own businesses.



                                Following the realization that the German Nazi's were killing these people our people began to hide Jews in homes and factories.



                                It was unfortunate that the Slovak "army", Hlinkova Garda, was required to arrest and help in the deportion of the Jewish population, which gave them an image of SS troops.



                                The government of Monsingior Tiso began the buildup of the infrastructure of the country and made other gains. The reason for my writing this is because I EXTREMELY detest the labeling of the 1st Republic as " as "Nazi", thus supporting the hanging of the Monsignor, exactly as intended by the communists.



                                I hope that I have demonstrated the fact that were many factors included in forming of the Republic as well as the support of Slovaks. Historians look upon the war fthrough different eyes thean the people who lived it. There was not 100% good in the republic and neither was there 100% bad. The same can be said the rule of communists.



                                Did any of you members ever met Father Augustine Zan, who was a chaplain for the sisters of Sts. Cyril and Method? He was a Secretary to Monsignior Tiso until the end of WW Two. He was good man whose base of existence was to be "First a Priest and Second a Slovak". His story is for another time. Nech Ban Boh dajim Sväteho Pokoji.



                                Vilo



                                ________________________________


                                w entering into the "Politic" of thrFrom: William F Brna <wfbrna@...>


                                To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com


                                Sent: Mon, January 4, 2010 7:11:25 AM


                                Subject: Re: [Slovak-World] Question on decimated village



                                Yes, and there were Slovaks who were not Nazi sympathizers. There are


                                three Brnas listed as "Righteous Gentiles" in the Holocaust Museum in


                                Washington and at Yad Vashem in Israel. The grandfather of one of the


                                families that I have stayed with saved at least three Jewish families.


                                He had double-walled buildings on his farm. Whenever anyone came around,


                                the Jewish families hid between the walls. I stayed at what remained of


                                the farm, but the buildings were no longer in existence.



                                Bill Brna



                                On Mon, 4 Jan 2010 01:57:06 +0000 (UTC) lkocik@comcast. net writes:



                                Helene... et al


                                There were Czechs and Slovaks that profiited from the war at the cost of


                                their countrymen. There were Nazi sympathizers and actuaul Nazi party


                                members among the citizenery of both countries too. This is a gut


                                wrenching and uncomfortable reality but needs to be kept an "in your


                                face" subject. ----- Original Message -----


                                From: votrubam


                                To: Slovak-World@ yahoogroups. com


                                Sent: Sun, 3 Jan 2010 22:26:41 +0000 (UTC)


                                Subject: [Slovak-World] Question on decimated village



                                > My brother-in-law was here the other day and said he



                                > saw a show on the history channel that talked about a



                                > town in Slovakia



                                Time to show him a map of Central Europe, perhaps? Not in Slovakia:



                                <http://tinyurl. com/y924q6a>



                                And as others have said, most people (not all) were killed, not just the


                                children. About 20 percent of the children were spared, because they had


                                traits of the "superior race."



                                Martin



                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



                                ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _


                                Diet Help


                                Cheap Diet Help Tips. Click here.
                                http://thirdpartyof fers.juno. com/TGL2141/ c?cp=iwNPpMaYbFg GZu-8-zSI6QAAJ1D 4BwlR4ftpi7iFil_ CpFskAAYAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAADNAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA YQAAAAAA=



                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



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                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              • lkocik@comcast.net
                                Martin Thank you for your enlightening reply on my insensitive remark. About the link you posted for Bill; I ve seen the sites that show the people that were
                                Message 15 of 29 , Jan 4, 2010
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                                  Martin
                                  Thank you for your enlightening reply on my insensitive remark.
                                  About the link you posted for Bill; I've seen the sites that show the people that were intered but am not familiar with this site. I couldn't tell what this list designates, and what is the context of the word "rightous"in this instance. Was it people who had a role "helping" secure freedom for victims of the holacost? It seems too small of a list for that.
                                  respectfully
                                  Larry kocik----- Original Message -----
                                  From: votrubam
                                  To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com
                                  Sent: Mon, 4 Jan 2010 15:19:41 +0000 (UTC)
                                  Subject: [Slovak-World] Re: Question on decimated village













                                  > and there were Slovaks who were not Nazi sympathizers. There are


                                  > three Brnas listed as "Righteous Gentiles" in the Holocaust


                                  > Museum in Washington and at Yad Vashem in Israel.



                                  The list is here, Bill:



                                  <http://tinyurl.com/ykd93pj>



                                  It names two Brnos recognized in 1993, no Brna. Unless the people had different last names, the webmasters at Yad Vashem should perhaps be contacted to update the list.



                                  Martin








                                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                • William C. Wormuth
                                  Bill, It was not you but your reason for the words used. They are a result source of your knowledge, even though it is limited and your source may not be
                                  Message 16 of 29 , Jan 4, 2010
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                                    Bill,

                                    It was not you but your reason for the words used. They are a result source of your knowledge, even though it is limited and your source may not be limited.

                                    I would not and will not become angered about what members write here as the purpose of this site is to learn and I have learned much.

                                    Back and forth communication is good and although you and I may never agree, we will remember the the content and perhaps, in the future, use the information.

                                    I have exposed myself to be damned by some, as a Nazi sympathizer, which of course I am not. What happened to the Jews had no rhyme nor reason. I am confident as a Catholic that those Nazi criminals have now experienced the true wrath of God.

                                    Experiences in the whole of Slovakia during the war might be as varied then as the life was between East and West, during Magyar rule. The East has suffered the most through all.

                                    I have never heard of a village being destroyed in the West nor do I know of anyone who was killed or deported to a German Death Camp.

                                    By the way, I did not mean to sound like an authority on the subject. I wrote only to express my opinion based on personal connections .

                                    Pray for Peace and God Bless,

                                    Vilo






                                    ________________________________
                                    From: "lkocik@..." <lkocik@...>
                                    To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com
                                    Sent: Mon, January 4, 2010 8:02:07 PM
                                    Subject: Re: [Slovak-World] Question on decimated village


                                    Vilo
                                    Please.. write more on this subject. You obviously have intense feelings and a deep base of knowledge on this era of Slovak history.
                                    I tried to provoke some meaningful dialouge with my email on the subject but fear I might have came across as too abrasive, or negative. I also feel I stepped on some toes by too casually mentioning the ties some[ an extremely small minority] Slovaks had with the Nazi party.I'm sorry for the way I phrased it, I wasn't trying to imply anything. I have no jewish blood that I'm aware of, but
                                    ever since my childhood, nothing has upset me more than the holacost....
                                    What I can't understand is how everyone including the catholic church, turned a blind eye to it. But there again, I'm expressing my personal, pathetic, emotional opion. I'm not looking to blame any one group ...and without living there in those times, and with my very limited "textbook" knowledge, I have no right to form any opion.
                                    That's what leads me to respectfully ask for your insight on those years between the great wars.
                                    The thought has also crossed my mind that maybe this forum is not the proper place for this subject, so if anyone objects please feel free to tell me.
                                    Thank you Vilo and the others that have replied.
                                    Larry Kocik----- Original Message -----
                                    From: William C. Wormuth
                                    To: Slovak-World@ yahoogroups. com
                                    Sent: Mon, 4 Jan 2010 19:35:46 +0000 (UTC)
                                    Subject: Re: [Slovak-World] Question on decimated village

                                    We are now entering into the politics of the First Republic, formed by Monsignor Jozef Tiso.

                                    I believe that he formed the Republic, legitimately, for the good and (safety), of the Slovak people. I do not support the propaganda that Monsignor Tiso was a "Nazi, who supported the killing of the Jewish and Gypsy populations" .

                                    Before the formation of the 1st Republic, (and following the war, up to the 2nd Republic), the Czech led Governments treated the Slovaks as second class citizens, who were not capable of anything except farming and labor. The original agreements of the Dohoda were put aside by Tomas Masaryk. For example, (which some might consider Unimportant but which effected many Slovaks) was, Republic was to be oficially named, CzechoSlovakia. Later, the government "dropped the capital "S" and Slovaks remained second class.

                                    School children were obliged to learn Czech and Slovaks had little or no political voice.

                                    In My Grandmothers village, (Kúty), in western Slovakia had a mayor, who had his position because his wife was Czech. All business, with the exceptionof restaurants and bars, in the village were owned by people who were Jews.

                                    The Envy and in some cases hatred of Jews, stemmed from the Hungarian rule. The King appointed the Jews as tax collectors, in order to clear his name as a tax collector. The statement I heard from our people, when I was a child was, "The Magyars took 50% and the Jews 40% and we ad to live on the remaining 10% of our incomes.".

                                    The dreams of the Slovaks in the afore mentioned film, were no different than those of our immegrant forefathers. They wanted to improve their lives and perhaps someday to return home and have their own businesses.

                                    The film, shop on Main Street, ( Obchod na Korze ), was meant as a " Propaganda tool", for the Czechoslovak Communist Government alienate any Political influence of the Slovaks.

                                    The dreams of the Slovaks in the film, were no different than those of our immigrant forefathers. They wanted to improve their lives and perhaps someday to return home and have their own businesses.

                                    Following the realization that the German Nazi's were killing these people our people began to hide Jews in homes and factories.

                                    It was unfortunate that the Slovak "army", Hlinkova Garda, was required to arrest and help in the deportion of the Jewish population, which gave them an image of SS troops.

                                    The government of Monsingior Tiso began the buildup of the infrastructure of the country and made other gains. The reason for my writing this is because I EXTREMELY detest the labeling of the 1st Republic as " as "Nazi", thus supporting the hanging of the Monsignor, exactly as intended by the communists.

                                    I hope that I have demonstrated the fact that were many factors included in forming of the Republic as well as the support of Slovaks. Historians look upon the war fthrough different eyes thean the people who lived it. There was not 100% good in the republic and neither was there 100% bad. The same can be said the rule of communists.

                                    Did any of you members ever met Father Augustine Zan, who was a chaplain for the sisters of Sts. Cyril and Method? He was a Secretary to Monsignior Tiso until the end of WW Two. He was good man whose base of existence was to be "First a Priest and Second a Slovak". His story is for another time. Nech Ban Boh dajim Sväteho Pokoji.

                                    Vilo

                                    ____________ _________ _________ __

                                    w entering into the "Politic" of thrFrom: William F Brna <wfbrna@juno. com>

                                    To: Slovak-World@ yahoogroups. com

                                    Sent: Mon, January 4, 2010 7:11:25 AM

                                    Subject: Re: [Slovak-World] Question on decimated village

                                    Yes, and there were Slovaks who were not Nazi sympathizers. There are

                                    three Brnas listed as "Righteous Gentiles" in the Holocaust Museum in

                                    Washington and at Yad Vashem in Israel. The grandfather of one of the

                                    families that I have stayed with saved at least three Jewish families.

                                    He had double-walled buildings on his farm. Whenever anyone came around,

                                    the Jewish families hid between the walls. I stayed at what remained of

                                    the farm, but the buildings were no longer in existence.

                                    Bill Brna

                                    On Mon, 4 Jan 2010 01:57:06 +0000 (UTC) lkocik@comcast. net writes:

                                    Helene... et al

                                    There were Czechs and Slovaks that profiited from the war at the cost of

                                    their countrymen. There were Nazi sympathizers and actuaul Nazi party

                                    members among the citizenery of both countries too. This is a gut

                                    wrenching and uncomfortable reality but needs to be kept an "in your

                                    face" subject. ----- Original Message -----

                                    From: votrubam

                                    To: Slovak-World@ yahoogroups. com

                                    Sent: Sun, 3 Jan 2010 22:26:41 +0000 (UTC)

                                    Subject: [Slovak-World] Question on decimated village

                                    > My brother-in-law was here the other day and said he

                                    > saw a show on the history channel that talked about a

                                    > town in Slovakia

                                    Time to show him a map of Central Europe, perhaps? Not in Slovakia:

                                    <http://tinyurl. com/y924q6a>

                                    And as others have said, most people (not all) were killed, not just the

                                    children. About 20 percent of the children were spared, because they had

                                    traits of the "superior race."

                                    Martin

                                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                                    ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _

                                    Diet Help

                                    Cheap Diet Help Tips. Click here.
                                    http://thirdpartyof fers.juno. com/TGL2141/ c?cp=iwNPpMaYbFg GZu-8-zSI6QAAJ1D 4BwlR4ftpi7iFil_ CpFskAAYAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAADNAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA YQAAAAAA=

                                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







                                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  • votrubam
                                    ... I may have misunderstood, Vilo -- Jews were deported from Italy, France, the Netherlands, Belgium, Denmark (very few, because almost all managed to escape
                                    Message 17 of 29 , Jan 4, 2010
                                    • 0 Attachment
                                      > I have never heard of a village being destroyed in the West
                                      > nor do I know of anyone who was killed or deported to a
                                      > German Death Camp.

                                      I may have misunderstood, Vilo -- Jews were deported from Italy, France, the Netherlands, Belgium, Denmark (very few, because almost all managed to escape to Sweden), Norway... Is that what you meant? And Germany, of course, is the "West," too. Western Europe has not been any less cruel than the rest of the continent.

                                      Martin
                                    • Ben Sorensen
                                      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holocaust_train#Slovakia   Here is a weird take on the expulsion of Jews I found as I was looking for the train routes to
                                      Message 18 of 29 , Jan 4, 2010
                                      • 0 Attachment
                                        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holocaust_train#Slovakia
                                         
                                        Here is a weird take on the expulsion of Jews I found as I was looking for the train routes to Oswiecim (Auschwitz). I think whoever wrote this had a chip on their shoulder- and as far as the "facts," I myself couldn't confirm them.  However, Slovakia's actions during the beginning of WWII were less than admirable... I would have to say, though, that if these actions must be "in our faces," let's also remember that a country that many of us call home today also took part in some of the most abominable slave trading- and took even longer to end segregation.   If we look at WWII and America, let's not forget our concentration camps in California and elsewhere, or the SS St. Louis.....
                                        or My Lai in Vietnam....
                                         
                                        Here is a line, a very tame line in comparison to some others, from The Los Angeles Times during WWII:
                                        "A viper is nonetheless a viper whenever the egg is hatched - so a Japanese American, born of Japanese parents - grows up to be a Japanese, not an American."
                                         
                                        I am not saying that America was in any way the equal of Germany, or that Slovakia should be completely exonerated- but the truth is that no country is clean of "sin." Slovakia had alot to repent for by 1942, but SNP proves that there were MANY good men too in Slovakia.  Germans were taken in by Nazi rhetoric, but there were groups of those who opposed the Fuhrer as well (Swing Kids, for example). And in America, people opposed slavery, the interrment of the Japanese, and also our refusal to dock and grant refuge to the SS St. Louis.
                                         
                                        Since we are on the topic- here is something interesting released by the CIA in 2000- HITLER'S FILE.
                                        http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Holocaust/CIAHitler.pdf
                                        Ben




                                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                      • William C. Wormuth
                                        I m sorry for the typo, I meant in WESTERN SLOVAKIA. ________________________________ From: votrubam To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com
                                        Message 19 of 29 , Jan 4, 2010
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                                          I'm sorry for the typo, I meant in WESTERN SLOVAKIA.




                                          ________________________________
                                          From: votrubam <votrubam@...>
                                          To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com
                                          Sent: Mon, January 4, 2010 10:10:04 PM
                                          Subject: [Slovak-World] Re: Question on decimated village


                                          > I have never heard of a village being destroyed in the West
                                          > nor do I know of anyone who was killed or deported to a
                                          > German Death Camp.

                                          I may have misunderstood, Vilo -- Jews were deported from Italy, France, the Netherlands, Belgium, Denmark (very few, because almost all managed to escape to Sweden), Norway... Is that what you meant? And Germany, of course, is the "West," too. Western Europe has not been any less cruel than the rest of the continent.

                                          Martin







                                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                        • Greg
                                          Martin: One of my favorite films in Slovak is The Shop on Main Street . The thread that has been running here this week makes me curious. Is there any
                                          Message 20 of 29 , Jan 6, 2010
                                          • 0 Attachment
                                            Martin:

                                            One of my favorite films in Slovak is "The Shop on Main Street".

                                            The thread that has been running here this week makes me
                                            curious.

                                            Is there any historical accuracy to the film?

                                            Greg Kopchak


                                            --- In Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com, "votrubam" <votrubam@...> wrote:
                                            >
                                            > > and there were Slovaks who were not Nazi sympathizers. There are
                                            > > three Brnas listed as "Righteous Gentiles" in the Holocaust
                                            > > Museum in Washington and at Yad Vashem in Israel.
                                            >
                                            > The list is here, Bill:
                                            >
                                            > <http://tinyurl.com/ykd93pj>
                                            >
                                            > It names two Brnos recognized in 1993, no Brna. Unless the people had different last names, the webmasters at Yad Vashem should perhaps be contacted to update the list.
                                            >
                                            > Martin
                                            >
                                          • LongJohn Wayne
                                            It is best to be objective about history.  While I am sad about the events, I am burdened by no shame or guilt about my former countrymen. I have never been a
                                            Message 21 of 29 , Jan 9, 2010
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                                              It is best to be objective about history.  While I am sad about the events, I am burdened by no shame or guilt about my former countrymen.

                                              I have never been a Nazi nor a Communist, nor ever sympathized w/ any of the totalitarians.

                                              But to ignore the facts of their existence, or to hide or deny the facts, would only allow their resurgence.

                                              --- On Mon, 1/4/10, William F Brna <wfbrna@...> wrote:

                                              From: William F Brna <wfbrna@...>
                                              Subject: Re: [Slovak-World] Question on decimated village
                                              To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com
                                              Date: Monday, January 4, 2010, 7:11 AM







                                               









                                              Yes, and there were Slovaks who were not Nazi sympathizers. There are

                                              three Brnas listed as "Righteous Gentiles" in the Holocaust Museum in

                                              Washington and at Yad Vashem in Israel. The grandfather of one of the

                                              families that I have stayed with saved at least three Jewish families.

                                              He had double-walled buildings on his farm. Whenever anyone came around,

                                              the Jewish families hid between the walls. I stayed at what remained of

                                              the farm, but the buildings were no longer in existence.



                                              Bill Brna



                                              On Mon, 4 Jan 2010 01:57:06 +0000 (UTC) lkocik@comcast. net writes:



                                              Helene... et al

                                              There were Czechs and Slovaks that profiited from the war at the cost of

                                              their countrymen. There were Nazi sympathizers and actuaul Nazi party

                                              members among the citizenery of both countries too. This is a gut

                                              wrenching and uncomfortable reality but needs to be kept an "in your

                                              face" subject. ----- Original Message -----

                                              From: votrubam

                                              To: Slovak-World@ yahoogroups. com

                                              Sent: Sun, 3 Jan 2010 22:26:41 +0000 (UTC)

                                              Subject: [Slovak-World] Question on decimated village



                                              > My brother-in-law was here the other day and said he



                                              > saw a show on the history channel that talked about a



                                              > town in Slovakia



                                              Time to show him a map of Central Europe, perhaps? Not in Slovakia:



                                              <http://tinyurl. com/y924q6a>



                                              And as others have said, most people (not all) were killed, not just the

                                              children. About 20 percent of the children were spared, because they had

                                              traits of the "superior race."



                                              Martin



                                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



                                              ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _

                                              Diet Help

                                              Cheap Diet Help Tips. Click here.

                                              http://thirdpartyof fers.juno. com/TGL2141/ c?cp=iwNPpMaYbFg GZu-8-zSI6QAAJ1D 4BwlR4ftpi7iFil_ CpFskAAYAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAADNAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA YQAAAAAA=



                                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

























                                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                            • lkocik@comcast.net
                                              Those are my sentiments too, especially your last sentence. I might add that I have such a deep hatred for all things Nazi that it effects my judgement and
                                              Message 22 of 29 , Jan 9, 2010
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                                                Those are my sentiments too, especially your last sentence. I might add that I have such a deep hatred for all things Nazi that it effects my judgement and reasoning.
                                                I started that thread but "dropped out" very soon. I realized it was offensive to some subscribers.
                                                My intention wasn't to point a finger or cast blame ...I was only trying to ferret out the truth and stimulate conversation on the subject. I still think it is a valid subject to pursue,and I will, but not on this forum. I've never checked the by-laws for subject matter but notice the atmosphere here is more light hearted and up beat, and I don't want to rain on anyone's parade. I enjoy this forum for what it is and I'll leave it at that.
                                                Thank you for your support
                                                Larry ----- Original Message -----
                                                From: LongJohn Wayne
                                                To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com
                                                Sent: Sun, 10 Jan 2010 04:22:44 +0000 (UTC)
                                                Subject: Re: [Slovak-World] Question on decimated village













                                                It is best to be objective about history. While I am sad about the events, I am burdened by no shame or guilt about my former countrymen.



                                                I have never been a Nazi nor a Communist, nor ever sympathized w/ any of the totalitarians.



                                                But to ignore the facts of their existence, or to hide or deny the facts, would only allow their resurgence.



                                                --- On Mon, 1/4/10, William F Brna <wfbrna@...> wrote:



                                                From: William F Brna <wfbrna@...>


                                                Subject: Re: [Slovak-World] Question on decimated village


                                                To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com


                                                Date: Monday, January 4, 2010, 7:11 AM







                                                Yes, and there were Slovaks who were not Nazi sympathizers. There are



                                                three Brnas listed as "Righteous Gentiles" in the Holocaust Museum in



                                                Washington and at Yad Vashem in Israel. The grandfather of one of the



                                                families that I have stayed with saved at least three Jewish families.



                                                He had double-walled buildings on his farm. Whenever anyone came around,



                                                the Jewish families hid between the walls. I stayed at what remained of



                                                the farm, but the buildings were no longer in existence.



                                                Bill Brna



                                                On Mon, 4 Jan 2010 01:57:06 +0000 (UTC) lkocik@comcast. net writes:



                                                Helene... et al



                                                There were Czechs and Slovaks that profiited from the war at the cost of



                                                their countrymen. There were Nazi sympathizers and actuaul Nazi party



                                                members among the citizenery of both countries too. This is a gut



                                                wrenching and uncomfortable reality but needs to be kept an "in your



                                                face" subject. ----- Original Message -----



                                                From: votrubam



                                                To: Slovak-World@ yahoogroups. com



                                                Sent: Sun, 3 Jan 2010 22:26:41 +0000 (UTC)



                                                Subject: [Slovak-World] Question on decimated village



                                                > My brother-in-law was here the other day and said he



                                                > saw a show on the history channel that talked about a



                                                > town in Slovakia



                                                Time to show him a map of Central Europe, perhaps? Not in Slovakia:



                                                <http://tinyurl. com/y924q6a>



                                                And as others have said, most people (not all) were killed, not just the



                                                children. About 20 percent of the children were spared, because they had



                                                traits of the "superior race."



                                                Martin



                                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



                                                ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _



                                                Diet Help



                                                Cheap Diet Help Tips. Click here.

                                                http://thirdpartyof fers.juno. com/TGL2141/ c?cp=iwNPpMaYbFg GZu-8-zSI6QAAJ1D 4BwlR4ftpi7iFil_ CpFskAAYAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAADNAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA YQAAAAAA=



                                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



                                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]








                                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                              • LongJohn Wayne
                                                We can become what we hate. Where else do you post, Larry?  You sound like an interesting blogger.  Some here have very interesting travel blogs, even though
                                                Message 23 of 29 , Jan 10, 2010
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                                                  We can become what we hate.

                                                  Where else do you post, Larry?  You sound like an interesting blogger.  Some here have very interesting travel blogs, even though I may not agree on opinions re: other subjects.

                                                  I appreciate their posts

                                                  --- On Sun, 1/10/10, lkocik@... <lkocik@...> wrote:

                                                  From: lkocik@... <lkocik@...>
                                                  Subject: Re: [Slovak-World] Question on decimated village
                                                  To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com
                                                  Date: Sunday, January 10, 2010, 1:00 AM







                                                   









                                                  Those are my sentiments too, especially your last sentence. I might add that I have such a deep hatred for all things Nazi that it effects my judgement and reasoning.

                                                  I started that thread but "dropped out" very soon. I realized it was offensive to some subscribers.

                                                  My intention wasn't to point a finger or cast blame ...I was only trying to ferret out the truth and stimulate conversation on the subject. I still think it is a valid subject to pursue,and I will, but not on this forum. I've never checked the by-laws for subject matter but notice the atmosphere here is more light hearted and up beat, and I don't want to rain on anyone's parade. I enjoy this forum for what it is and I'll leave it at that.

                                                  Thank you for your support

                                                  Larry ----- Original Message -----

                                                  From: LongJohn Wayne

                                                  To: Slovak-World@ yahoogroups. com

                                                  Sent: Sun, 10 Jan 2010 04:22:44 +0000 (UTC)

                                                  Subject: Re: [Slovak-World] Question on decimated village



                                                  It is best to be objective about history. While I am sad about the events, I am burdened by no shame or guilt about my former countrymen.



                                                  I have never been a Nazi nor a Communist, nor ever sympathized w/ any of the totalitarians.



                                                  But to ignore the facts of their existence, or to hide or deny the facts, would only allow their resurgence.



                                                  --- On Mon, 1/4/10, William F Brna <wfbrna@juno. com> wrote:



                                                  From: William F Brna <wfbrna@juno. com>



                                                  Subject: Re: [Slovak-World] Question on decimated village



                                                  To: Slovak-World@ yahoogroups. com



                                                  Date: Monday, January 4, 2010, 7:11 AM



                                                  Yes, and there were Slovaks who were not Nazi sympathizers. There are



                                                  three Brnas listed as "Righteous Gentiles" in the Holocaust Museum in



                                                  Washington and at Yad Vashem in Israel. The grandfather of one of the



                                                  families that I have stayed with saved at least three Jewish families.



                                                  He had double-walled buildings on his farm. Whenever anyone came around,



                                                  the Jewish families hid between the walls. I stayed at what remained of



                                                  the farm, but the buildings were no longer in existence.



                                                  Bill Brna



                                                  On Mon, 4 Jan 2010 01:57:06 +0000 (UTC) lkocik@comcast. net writes:



                                                  Helene... et al



                                                  There were Czechs and Slovaks that profiited from the war at the cost of



                                                  their countrymen. There were Nazi sympathizers and actuaul Nazi party



                                                  members among the citizenery of both countries too. This is a gut



                                                  wrenching and uncomfortable reality but needs to be kept an "in your



                                                  face" subject. ----- Original Message -----



                                                  From: votrubam



                                                  To: Slovak-World@ yahoogroups. com



                                                  Sent: Sun, 3 Jan 2010 22:26:41 +0000 (UTC)



                                                  Subject: [Slovak-World] Question on decimated village



                                                  > My brother-in-law was here the other day and said he



                                                  > saw a show on the history channel that talked about a



                                                  > town in Slovakia



                                                  Time to show him a map of Central Europe, perhaps? Not in Slovakia:



                                                  <http://tinyurl. com/y924q6a>



                                                  And as others have said, most people (not all) were killed, not just the



                                                  children. About 20 percent of the children were spared, because they had



                                                  traits of the "superior race."



                                                  Martin



                                                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



                                                  ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _



                                                  Diet Help



                                                  Cheap Diet Help Tips. Click here.



                                                  http://thirdpartyof fers.juno. com/TGL2141/ c?cp=iwNPpMaYbFg GZu-8-zSI6QAAJ1D 4BwlR4ftpi7iFil_ CpFskAAYAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAADNAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA YQAAAAAA=



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                                                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                • lkocik@comcast.net
                                                  John Sorry for the lag in responding. Becoming what we hate is too true, especially the intolerance and looking for blame aspect .That s why I need to get more
                                                  Message 24 of 29 , Jan 14, 2010
                                                  • 0 Attachment
                                                    John
                                                    Sorry for the lag in responding.
                                                    Becoming what we hate is too true, especially the intolerance and looking for blame aspect .That's why I need to get more understanding of those times.
                                                    Thank you for your compliment. As for posting on other sites; I can barely keep up with what goes on here and over at the sister site on Slovak genealogy. Do you have any favorites?I always look for fresh perspectives and opposing views.
                                                    Larry.

                                                    ----- Original Message -----
                                                    From: LongJohn Wayne
                                                    To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com
                                                    Sent: Sun, 10 Jan 2010 19:20:17 +0000 (UTC)
                                                    Subject: Re: [Slovak-World] Question on decimated village













                                                    We can become what we hate.



                                                    Where else do you post, Larry? You sound like an interesting blogger. Some here have very interesting travel blogs, even though I may not agree on opinions re: other subjects.



                                                    I appreciate their posts



                                                    --- On Sun, 1/10/10, lkocik@... <lkocik@...> wrote:



                                                    From: lkocik@... <lkocik@...>


                                                    Subject: Re: [Slovak-World] Question on decimated village


                                                    To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com


                                                    Date: Sunday, January 10, 2010, 1:00 AM







                                                    Those are my sentiments too, especially your last sentence. I might add that I have such a deep hatred for all things Nazi that it effects my judgement and reasoning.



                                                    I started that thread but "dropped out" very soon. I realized it was offensive to some subscribers.



                                                    My intention wasn't to point a finger or cast blame ...I was only trying to ferret out the truth and stimulate conversation on the subject. I still think it is a valid subject to pursue,and I will, but not on this forum. I've never checked the by-laws for subject matter but notice the atmosphere here is more light hearted and up beat, and I don't want to rain on anyone's parade. I enjoy this forum for what it is and I'll leave it at that.



                                                    Thank you for your support



                                                    Larry ----- Original Message -----



                                                    From: LongJohn Wayne



                                                    To: Slovak-World@ yahoogroups. com



                                                    Sent: Sun, 10 Jan 2010 04:22:44 +0000 (UTC)



                                                    Subject: Re: [Slovak-World] Question on decimated village



                                                    It is best to be objective about history. While I am sad about the events, I am burdened by no shame or guilt about my former countrymen.



                                                    I have never been a Nazi nor a Communist, nor ever sympathized w/ any of the totalitarians.



                                                    But to ignore the facts of their existence, or to hide or deny the facts, would only allow their resurgence.



                                                    --- On Mon, 1/4/10, William F Brna <wfbrna@juno. com> wrote:



                                                    From: William F Brna <wfbrna@juno. com>



                                                    Subject: Re: [Slovak-World] Question on decimated village



                                                    To: Slovak-World@ yahoogroups. com



                                                    Date: Monday, January 4, 2010, 7:11 AM



                                                    Yes, and there were Slovaks who were not Nazi sympathizers. There are



                                                    three Brnas listed as "Righteous Gentiles" in the Holocaust Museum in



                                                    Washington and at Yad Vashem in Israel. The grandfather of one of the



                                                    families that I have stayed with saved at least three Jewish families.



                                                    He had double-walled buildings on his farm. Whenever anyone came around,



                                                    the Jewish families hid between the walls. I stayed at what remained of



                                                    the farm, but the buildings were no longer in existence.



                                                    Bill Brna



                                                    On Mon, 4 Jan 2010 01:57:06 +0000 (UTC) lkocik@comcast. net writes:



                                                    Helene... et al



                                                    There were Czechs and Slovaks that profiited from the war at the cost of



                                                    their countrymen. There were Nazi sympathizers and actuaul Nazi party



                                                    members among the citizenery of both countries too. This is a gut



                                                    wrenching and uncomfortable reality but needs to be kept an "in your



                                                    face" subject. ----- Original Message -----



                                                    From: votrubam



                                                    To: Slovak-World@ yahoogroups. com



                                                    Sent: Sun, 3 Jan 2010 22:26:41 +0000 (UTC)



                                                    Subject: [Slovak-World] Question on decimated village



                                                    > My brother-in-law was here the other day and said he



                                                    > saw a show on the history channel that talked about a



                                                    > town in Slovakia



                                                    Time to show him a map of Central Europe, perhaps? Not in Slovakia:



                                                    <http://tinyurl. com/y924q6a>



                                                    And as others have said, most people (not all) were killed, not just the



                                                    children. About 20 percent of the children were spared, because they had



                                                    traits of the "superior race."



                                                    Martin



                                                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



                                                    ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _



                                                    Diet Help



                                                    Cheap Diet Help Tips. Click here.

                                                    http://thirdpartyof fers.juno. com/TGL2141/ c?cp=iwNPpMaYbFg GZu-8-zSI6QAAJ1D 4BwlR4ftpi7iFil_ CpFskAAYAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAADNAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA YQAAAAAA=



                                                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



                                                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



                                                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



                                                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]








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