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Travels through Slovakia in 1844 p1

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  • Ron
    Some time back I found and downloaded a book on Google Books „Wanderungen in Ungarn und unter seinen Bewohnern, Eine Beleuchtung von Ungarns moderner
    Message 1 of 28 , Dec 11, 2009
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      Some time back I found and downloaded a book on Google Books

      „Wanderungen in Ungarn und unter seinen Bewohnern, Eine Beleuchtung von Ungarns moderner Stellung und Richtung“ published in 1844 by Wilhelm Richter, called up from Google Books copy from the Bavarian State Library.
      <Traveling in Hungary and among its Inhabitants, an Illumination of Hungary’s Modern Place and Direction>

      This book was first published in 1844 and presents the observations of a Prussian who lived in Hungary for 5 years; thus, the culture and the values presented would represent those of Hungary through the observer’s eyes at the period around 1840, some ten years before the revolutions of 1848 and some 40 years before the beginnings of the mass migrations of our ancestors to America.

      The book is in German and I enjoy his perspective and reading it so much that I decided to test myself and my perseverance and translate it into English so we can share it and discuss it on this forum.

      Thanks for the inspiration, H.F.

      This translation will concentrate on North Hungary, Slovaks, Ruthenians, the culture and everyday life as it is illuminated by our traveler’s descriptions.
      The language and the spelling conventions have long been surpassed by a series of reforms and new conventions, but Mr. Richter’s writing style is clear and entertaining, greatly aiding in understanding his observations these 170 years later.

      To ease my work and keep it relevant to Slovakia, I will tend to skip specific descriptions of Hungarians and Romanians unless it adds to the Slovak story. What might it include?
      _ _ _

      Chapter 1, Entering Hungary through the Contumaz. Orzova (just above the Iron Gates on the Danube) & Banat. p 1-19
      Chapter 2, Pest and Ofen, current culture and look into the future p 20 - 64
      Chapter 3, Danube, right bank. Art of traveling in Hungary. Wine lands, hunt, farming, husbandry p 65-90
      Chapter 4, Pest-Debrecin railroad. The Tisa (Tisza, Theiss) , floods, fish. Legal practices earlier and today. ?? Status of different social layers ?? Tokay. People, wine and brandy. p 91-180
      Chapter 5, Traveling in the North-East. Baths. Industry. Characteristics of the Slavs, their possessions and situation. Slavic tendency to fight against Magyarization. State of culture in the North. p 181-240
      Chapter 6, Gemer County. The limits of the Sajo valley <North of Miskolc, HU>, German colonists, mining towns. Great and lesser nobility life. The unrest in the cholera period. Miners and their life. p 241-312.
      Chapter 7, Lower Hungary and mining. Crisscrossing lower Hungary and its people. Baths and mineral springs. 313-382
      Chapter 8, The Spis and Tatras and the mountain economy. Advice for traveling in the high mountains. Aids for the traveler. Fighting the elements. 383-424
      Chapter 9, Closing. Conclusions about the direction of the country, the internal and external struggles. The necessary victory of the Nationalities. p 425-436
    • Ron
      The first posting showed that I was not using all-American quotation marks and commas. I will try to correct that in the future so it is easier to read. I
      Message 2 of 28 , Dec 11, 2009
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        The first posting showed that I was not using all-American quotation marks and commas. I will try to correct that in the future so it is easier to read.

        I published the index to the book, so you can see with this posting that I chose to skip over the first 39 pages as not directly in the Slovak-Rusyn area of interest.

        Starting at page <40>,

        <40> refers to the book page upon which the theme is covered.

        vi. Descriptions of Slavic and Hungarian development shortcomings.

        <40> In Pest and Ofen the various classes of society live in their own city quarters, as in other major cities. In Raitzenstadt district of Ofen is the center for the Greek Rite Christians. In Old Ofen and the Wasserstadt is occupied by tradesmen and Jews, while the fortress area itself is largely occupied by bureaucrats, military, nobility, religious, artists and scientists. In Pest the nobility doesn’t have its own neighborhood, but rather they have relocated their palaces (kein Faubourg St. Germain) to the New Market, Josef Square, and Landing Square, in part also to Herrengasse, which appears to have given rise to the name of the street (Lord’s Way). Waitzner Lane and its area retailers, and the Waitzner-Damm and the area of Konigsgasse. The Jews and the poorer peoples’ classes we find in the more distant French City and outlying areas.

        The most impressive view is from the Chain Bridge, which should soon connect Ofen and Pest in a few years, constructed under the direction of the English engineer named Clarke. He has already displayed his qualifications, knowledge and talents in England to lead this massive construction project that will be accomplished at great expense. The work started by the Nakoschen Palas in 1839 and by the year 1846 should start paying a return on this great investment to the sponsor, Baron Sina of Vienna. There are many pictures and representations of this great construction in circulation, and I feel obligated to describe the current activity. Thousands of giant wooden piles as large as ship’s masts are being driven into the sandy floor of the river. There is currently a temporary railroad bridge in place to service the city. Mr. Clarke has no lack of enemies who would stop him and the jealous who would happily see him fail. At the beginning there was anger that the benefits of this investment would leave the country and flow to Greek bankers in Vienna, to the degree that the nobility decided against their traditional rights to pay bridge tolls, whereas they had previously protested against the city floating bridge (the seasonal pontoon bridge). <<und um so mehr, da sich der Adel entschied, gegen sein hergebrachtes Recht, Brückenzoll zu zahlen, wogegen er sich sonst bei der städtischen vaterländischen Schiffbrücke feierlichste verwahrt hatte.>>

        The necessity for a permanent bridge was generally accepted, but efforts regularly failed due to lack of credit and cash. It is the misfortune of Hungary that often plans will be made and not executed due to one or more of the three basic requirements not being met: unity, money, and support from the government in Vienna.
        _ _ _
        The sentence in << >> was particularly hard to translate, as I expected to find a "not" or a negative. I thought the nobility had a right to cross bridges without paying the toll that commoners had to pay. If someone with a workable command of German is out there, I welcome commentary to improve the translation!

        I hope to post two or three sections per week. That should give us time for discussion & incentive for me to work at this and stay ahead of the expectations.

        Ron
      • helene cincebeaux
        Hi everyone - just received a rodny list Jan Mucica was born jan 19, 1905 and his father is listed as Jan Sovis Mucica. They give the house number as 1409 in
        Message 3 of 28 , Dec 12, 2009
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          Hi everyone - just received a "rodny list" Jan Mucica was born jan 19, 1905 and his father is listed as Jan Sovis Mucica. They give the house number as 1409 in Myjava.

          Here is that double surname - is there any way to tell which was the real surname and which was the nick name? Both of these  are surnames in the area.

          helene





          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • William C. Wormuth
          I don t know but muc~e is torture! zoznam does not list Mucica but does list a good number of sovis~ in the Myjava area: Sovis~, Tibor SNP 414/9 Myjava 1
          Message 4 of 28 , Dec 12, 2009
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            I don't know but muc~e is torture!

            zoznam does not list Mucica but does list a good number of sovis~ in the Myjava area:
            Sovis~, Tibor SNP 414/9 Myjava 1 Telefon c~islo 0905457042.

            Vilo

            Very strange if this isn't the same numbers in the house number?








            ________________________________
            From: helene cincebeaux <helenezx@...>
            To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Sat, December 12, 2009 2:53:26 PM
            Subject: Re: [Slovak-World] double surname?


            Hi everyone - just received a "rodny list" Jan Mucica was born jan 19, 1905 and his father is listed as Jan Sovis Mucica. They give the house number as 1409 in Myjava.

            Here is that double surname - is there any way to tell which was the real surname and which was the nick name? Both of these are surnames in the area.

            helene

            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Ron
            Interest by the leading government factions also leads to the expectation that this year the first earth will be turned in the construction of the
            Message 5 of 28 , Dec 16, 2009
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              Interest by the leading government factions also leads to the expectation that this year the first earth will be turned in the construction of the Pest-Debrecen and the Pest-Bratislava railroads. The economies are obvious, the geographic routing obvious to school children, and it has the potential to raise Pest to world class center of trade. <42>
              The railroad connection of Vienna and Debrecen would hardly have a bad influence on the existing Danube steamship service, but rather an improvement in public service. When the ship companies have met all of their promises for comfort and elegance and leave nothing more to be desired, there might be hope that prices would fall and service would improve, even if the dividends paid to the investors would shrink a bit. In the current circumstances the Danube Ship Travel Company is forced to take the profits from the upper Danube and Black Sea profits and subsidize the lower Danube losses. As soon as the land connections are completed in southern interior of Hungary, the increased value of the domestic production as well as exports through the lower Danube would increase – perhaps it is too rosy a picture to imagine currently – but I believe that eventually ships will travel through the Suez <this book was published in 1844; the canal was started in 1859 and completed in 1869>, Istanbul, Trabezunt and up the Danube , perhaps in the not too distant time, deal a deadly blow to the gigantic monopolies on trade, and raise the dividends on the Romanian-Hungarian Danube steamship stocks to a 10 percent return. With a network of rails and river traffic, the rigors of a trip from Siebenburg to Pest will no longer be comparable to undertaking the dangers of a polar expedition.
              <45> The example of all big cities that build a railroad network in its front yard teaches us that in a short time that in every way the network not only expands the size of the city, but also increasingly enriches the city. Pest and Ofen can also anticipate the same happy future as soon as the railroads to Debrecen and Bratislava join at Pest. It would be to hope that they will have the same fortune as the Vienna-Triest (Fiume) and develop their own locomotive and railcar construction industries to take advantage of the natural raw materials Hungary has in overabundance, and thus benefit themselves rather than the English, North American or Belgian machine works. This is no empty dream, as the steamship companies in Old-Ofen have all of the capability and skills to manufacture and produce the steam engines and other ship outfitting required. This industry would also employ thousands and feed the attendant families as well.
              The stock company Josephs-Steam-Roller-Milling Mill demonstrates that Pest and Ofen have the economic knowledge to develop as a national industry, as soon as one becomes accustomed to the idea of becoming self-sufficient and sufficient capital is assembled with guarantees.

              <45> The Josephs Steam Mill has not limited itself to its original purposes, but has expanded by establishing a factory for fabricating agricultural, industry and trade with a reputation for usability and fitting the purpose. Also in various industries …. and iron works in north Hungary …
              <47> next
            • Ron
              The book hasn t generated much comment yet, but I will continue on for a while and see if there is any interest. I started out with what I must rank as some
              Message 6 of 28 , Dec 17, 2009
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                The book hasn't generated much comment yet, but I will continue on for a while and see if there is any interest. I started out with what I must rank as some poor translation, which is a bad deal, as my goal is to end up with an accurate translation of Mr. Richter's observations so this period of Slovak history is illuminated for the English language reader. It is interesting to experience a long-range project like this with efforts to translate ahead of time, capture the story with the spirit of the original in German, which I find quite readable. My command of German is pretty decent to start with, but I am amazed at the variety of new meanings and words I am learning as I go along. It can be as simple yet critical as conveying the difference between 'house' and 'home'.

                I don't expect to be posting mundane corrections that I am made aware of, but the more important ones deserve attention, as part of <40>

                "In Pest the nobility doesn't have its own neighborhood, but rather most of their palaces stretch along the Danube (kein Faubourg St. Germain) to the New Market, Josef Square, and Landing Square, in part also to Herrengasse, which appears to have given rise to the name of the street (Lord's Way). Waitzner Lane is the merchants area, and the Waitzner-Damm and the area of Konigsgasse are inhabited by the Jews, while the poorer peoples' classes we find in the more distant French City and outlying areas." "At the beginning there was anger that the benefits of this investment would leave the country and flow to Greek bankers in Vienna, even more so since the nobility decided, against their traditional rights, to pay the bridge toll, whereas they had previously protested against the tolls on the city-national floating bridge (the seasonal pontoon bridge)."

                Aha! The problem with multi-language keyboard coding comes up again. I see doesn't instead of doesn't.

                Locating the different neighborhoods for ethnic groups and classes may fall under interesting trivia, but more serious topics are touched upon, as with his discussion of the Chain Bridge and the tremendous problems in gathering enough capital to build the bridge in the first place. Reading about the pontoon bridges across the Danube remind me of Alaska, where we have public ice bridges in Fairbanks in the winter, closed by the department of highways in late spring, and invariably tested by public continuing to drive around the barricades until someone proves the ice is too weak to support a car. There is also the reality of Buda and Pest being totally cut off from one another during fall and spring periods when the ice is too thin to travel upon or ice flows prevent boats from crossing.

                The write-up on the river traffic on the Danube and the Thies is interesting, and takes me back to Mark Twain's original occupation as river pilot on the Mississippi, when boats needed a good pilot and luck to dodge the shifting sand bars in the Danube and overcome, when possible, the fluctuations in river level that sometimes left boats stranded. The rivers we see today with their controlled water levels bear no resemblance to the rivers our ancestors had to contend with.

                We will see how it goes with further translations. I do hope you will engage in active discussion when we touch on areas of interest to you, and add commentary, as I did above in comparing the Mississippi navigation problems to those on the Danube. This book is the first I have read that talked about boat traffic and trade along the Thiess.

                Darn, that points out another place I need help! I wrote Thiess when I meant to use the modern Tisa for the name of the river. Obviously I need help at catching and inserting all of the modern place names rather than handicap the story with a mish-mash of Hungarian-Latin-German-Slovak names!

                Also, your commentary and assist are necessary to get a decent translation out of this. I hope you find it interesting too!

                Ron
              • votrubam
                ... It is Francis City/Town (Franzenstadt; Ferencvaros in Hungarian). Pest didn t have a French quarter. It s this part of the city:
                Message 7 of 28 , Dec 18, 2009
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                  Thanks for doing the translation, Ron, I look forward to more. A small addition:

                  > French City

                  It is Francis City/Town (Franzenstadt; Ferencvaros in Hungarian). Pest didn't have a French quarter. It's this part of the city:

                  <http://tinyurl.com/y94zbkj>

                  It was named after the reform-minded Emperor Francis II (who was King Francis I in Hungary).

                  Martin
                • votrubam
                  Oops, it should have been _post-reformist_ Francis II. Looking forward to reading more from you, Ron. Martin
                  Message 8 of 28 , Dec 18, 2009
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                    Oops, it should have been _post-reformist_ Francis II.

                    Looking forward to reading more from you, Ron.

                    Martin
                  • Ron
                    Wow Martin, The things we have to learn! I do well with word association, but I was sure off on this one - Franzen-Stadt as named after an emperor instead of
                    Message 9 of 28 , Dec 18, 2009
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                      Wow Martin,

                      The things we have to learn! I do well with word association, but I was sure off on this one - Franzen-Stadt as named after an emperor instead of the French.

                      You also got me to go back and Google "Faubourg Saint Germain" that added meaning to the neighborhood where the nobility housed. (I skipped mentioning this Paris neighborhood in the translation, and will leave it out, as it is probably too obscure for most of us Americans).

                      This is turning into a good lesson for me on how much effort a translator or an author must put into writing to get it right!

                      I appreciate the comments.

                      Ron
                      "Faubourg Saint Germain" , Paris
                      Located near the École des Beaux-Arts, this quarter is known for its artistry in general, and has many galleries along its rue Bonaparte and rue de Seine. In all, Saint-Germain-des-Prés is an upper-class bourgeois residential district, and its quality clothing and gastronomical street-side commerce is a direct reflection of this.


                      --- In Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com, "votrubam" <votrubam@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > Thanks for doing the translation, Ron, I look forward to more. A small addition:
                      >
                      > > French City
                      >
                      > It is Francis City/Town (Franzenstadt; Ferencvaros in Hungarian). Pest didn't have a French quarter. It's this part of the city:
                      >
                      > <http://tinyurl.com/y94zbkj>
                      >
                      > It was named after the reform-minded Emperor Francis II (who was King Francis I in Hungary).
                      >
                      > Martin
                      >
                    • Ben Sorensen
                      Hey Ron, I am really enjoying the read- and Martin is just superhuman when it comes to translations.  I oft wonder if there is a language aside from Urdu that
                      Message 10 of 28 , Dec 18, 2009
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                        Hey Ron,
                        I am really enjoying the read- and Martin is just superhuman when it comes to translations.  I oft wonder if there is a language aside from Urdu that he doesn't speak (and he will probably now speak Urdu!)
                        Please, keep it coming- it is thus far a good read!
                        Ben




                        ________________________________
                        From: Ron <amiak27@...>
                        To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com
                        Sent: Fri, December 18, 2009 12:13:56 PM
                        Subject: [Slovak-World] Re: Travels through Slovakia in 1844 p2

                         
                        Wow Martin,

                        The things we have to learn! I do well with word association, but I was sure off on this one - Franzen-Stadt as named after an emperor instead of the French.

                        You also got me to go back and Google "Faubourg Saint Germain" that added meaning to the neighborhood where the nobility housed. (I skipped mentioning this Paris neighborhood in the translation, and will leave it out, as it is probably too obscure for most of us Americans).

                        This is turning into a good lesson for me on how much effort a translator or an author must put into writing to get it right!

                        I appreciate the comments.

                        Ron
                        "Faubourg Saint Germain" , Paris
                        Located near the École des Beaux-Arts, this quarter is known for its artistry in general, and has many galleries along its rue Bonaparte and rue de Seine. In all, Saint-Germain- des-Prés is an upper-class bourgeois residential district, and its quality clothing and gastronomical street-side commerce is a direct reflection of this.

                        --- In Slovak-World@ yahoogroups. com, "votrubam" <votrubam@.. .> wrote:
                        >
                        > Thanks for doing the translation, Ron, I look forward to more. A small addition:
                        >
                        > > French City
                        >
                        > It is Francis City/Town (Franzenstadt; Ferencvaros in Hungarian). Pest didn't have a French quarter. It's this part of the city:
                        >
                        > <http://tinyurl. com/y94zbkj>
                        >
                        > It was named after the reform-minded Emperor Francis II (who was King Francis I in Hungary).
                        >
                        > Martin
                        >







                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • Ben Sorensen
                        Hi everyone, I am constantly getting sent to a Google search for yieldmanager.com when I try to open emails. I have tried clearing cookies, updating my
                        Message 11 of 28 , Dec 18, 2009
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                          Hi everyone,

                          I am constantly getting sent to a Google search for "yieldmanager.com" when I try to open emails. I have tried clearing cookies, updating my antivirus/antispyware, and cleaning out my temporary files.  I have also blocked in my internet settings- but then I started thinking: is this rather the effect of a trojan horse rather than the culprit itself? Who would be able to point me in the right direction?
                          So, then I realized that our Slovak community is made up of geniuses, engineers, top librarians, and crazy musicians... so someone here would have to know!  Is that auto-google search for yieldmanager the effect of a larger problem, or is it a version of spyware itself?
                          Any ideas?
                          Ben




                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • n8de@thepoint.net
                          Download and install SpyBot Search and Destroy . It s free and when you run it, it will remove your problem .. 99.99% of the time. If you ve not updated
                          Message 12 of 28 , Dec 18, 2009
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                            Download and install 'SpyBot Search and Destroy". It's free and when
                            you run it, it will remove your problem .. 99.99% of the time.
                            If you've not updated SpyBot, do so first.
                            Good luck
                            Don Havlicek

                            Quoting Ben Sorensen <cerrunos1@...>:

                            >
                            > Hi everyone,
                            >
                            > I am constantly getting sent to a Google search for
                            > "yieldmanager.com" when I try to open emails. I have tried clearing
                            > cookies, updating my antivirus/antispyware, and cleaning out my
                            > temporary files.  I have also blocked in my internet settings- but
                            > then I started thinking: is this rather the effect of a trojan horse
                            > rather than the culprit itself? Who would be able to point me in
                            > the right direction?
                            > So, then I realized that our Slovak community is made up of
                            > geniuses, engineers, top librarians, and crazy musicians... so
                            > someone here would have to know!  Is that auto-google search for
                            > yieldmanager the effect of a larger problem, or is it a version of
                            > spyware itself?
                            > Any ideas?
                            > Ben
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            >
                            >
                          • Vladimir Linder
                            Go to HIJACKTHIS.De it will solve your problem Vladi
                            Message 13 of 28 , Dec 18, 2009
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                              Go to HIJACKTHIS.De it will solve your problem

                              Vladi
                              At 03:42 PM 12/18/2009, you wrote:
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >Hi everyone,
                              >
                              >I am constantly getting sent to a Google search
                              >for "yieldmanager.com" when I try to open
                              >emails. I have tried clearing cookies, updating
                              >my antivirus/antispyware, and cleaning out my
                              >temporary files. I have also blocked in my
                              >internet settings- but then I started thinking:
                              >is this rather the effect of a trojan horse
                              >rather than the culprit itself? Who would be
                              >able to point me in the right direction?
                              >So, then I realized that our Slovak community is
                              >made up of geniuses, engineers, top librarians,
                              >and crazy musicians... so someone here would
                              >have to know! Is that auto-google search for
                              >yieldmanager the effect of a larger problem, or
                              >is it a version of spyware itself?
                              >Any ideas?
                              >Ben
                              >
                              >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              >
                              >
                            • helene cincebeaux
                              Hi Ben - Just lately an annoying problem i had increased - when i try to get on Yahoo i get a message talking about a certificate and downloading it and when i
                              Message 14 of 28 , Dec 18, 2009
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                                Hi Ben -

                                Just lately an annoying problem i had increased - when i try to get on Yahoo i get a message talking about a certificate and downloading it and when i say no i get shunted out of yahoo and never get to read my mail. Today had a brainstorm and accessed yahoo thru Mozilla Firefox instead of aol - voila no problem at all and much smoother. Before i was having to sign in all the time even tho i asked to be remembered - those certificates are so suspicious but don't know how to get rid of them.

                                In regard to those wonderful coats in the Detva/Ocova/Poniky region worn slung over the shoulder - i was told that the sewn up sleeve was the place to keep lunch. One of the coat maker's years ago told me this - he lived right on the road leading to the festival and was ancient in those days.

                                I really love the hats and wonder too why they are so relatively tiny and so cute. Love it at a festival when a young 2 or 3 year old boy in full regalia does a dance and holds his hat on and then gets down and slaps the floor - the crowd always goes wild!

                                helene

                                helene




                                ________________________________
                                From: Ben Sorensen <cerrunos1@...>
                                To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com
                                Sent: Fri, December 18, 2009 6:42:58 PM
                                Subject: [Slovak-World] Computer help...



                                Hi everyone,

                                I am constantly getting sent to a Google search for "yieldmanager. com" when I try to open emails. I have tried clearing cookies, updating my antivirus/antispywa re, and cleaning out my temporary files. I have also blocked in my internet settings- but then I started thinking: is this rather the effect of a trojan horse rather than the culprit itself? Who would be able to point me in the right direction?
                                So, then I realized that our Slovak community is made up of geniuses, engineers, top librarians, and crazy musicians... so someone here would have to know! Is that auto-google search for yieldmanager the effect of a larger problem, or is it a version of spyware itself?
                                Any ideas?
                                Ben

                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              • cerrunos1@yahoo.com
                                Hey all... Firstly, sorry that the original message is here, but doing this from a blackberry. Now, just wanted to give you guys a heads-up that there is a
                                Message 15 of 28 , Dec 18, 2009
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                                  Hey all... Firstly, sorry that the original message is here, but doing this from a blackberry. Now, just wanted to give you guys a heads-up that there is a great heligonka right now on Ebay. It is a Hlavacek, one of the most sought after instruments in Slovak and Czech folklor. It was restored by one of the best shops in the Czech Republic, and is worth about TWICE what they are asking! SOOO... If I could afford it, it would already be mine...
                                  Ben
                                  Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

                                  -----Original Message-----
                                  From: helene cincebeaux <helenezx@...>
                                  Date: Fri, 18 Dec 2009 18:03:45
                                  To: <Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com>
                                  Subject: Re: [Slovak-World] Computer help...

                                  Hi Ben -

                                  Just lately an annoying problem i had increased - when i try to get on Yahoo i get a message talking about a certificate and downloading it and when i say no i get shunted out of yahoo and never get to read my mail. Today had a brainstorm and accessed yahoo thru Mozilla Firefox instead of aol - voila no problem at all and much smoother. Before i was having to sign in all the time even tho i asked to be remembered - those certificates are so suspicious but don't know how to get rid of them.

                                  In regard to those wonderful coats in the Detva/Ocova/Poniky region worn slung over the shoulder - i was told that the sewn up sleeve was the place to keep lunch. One of the coat maker's years ago told me this - he lived right on the road leading to the festival and was ancient in those days.

                                  I really love the hats and wonder too why they are so relatively tiny and so cute. Love it at a festival when a young 2 or 3 year old boy in full regalia does a dance and holds his hat on and then gets down and slaps the floor - the crowd always goes wild!

                                  helene

                                  helene




                                  ________________________________
                                  From: Ben Sorensen <cerrunos1@...>
                                  To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com
                                  Sent: Fri, December 18, 2009 6:42:58 PM
                                  Subject: [Slovak-World] Computer help...



                                  Hi everyone,

                                  I am constantly getting sent to a Google search for "yieldmanager. com" when I try to open emails. I have tried clearing cookies, updating my antivirus/antispywa re, and cleaning out my temporary files. I have also blocked in my internet settings- but then I started thinking: is this rather the effect of a trojan horse rather than the culprit itself? Who would be able to point me in the right direction?
                                  So, then I realized that our Slovak community is made up of geniuses, engineers, top librarians, and crazy musicians... so someone here would have to know! Is that auto-google search for yieldmanager the effect of a larger problem, or is it a version of spyware itself?
                                  Any ideas?
                                  Ben

                                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







                                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




                                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                • Edie Sando
                                  Do you have a good anti virus program also? I use AVG free and it s been really good. ... From: Ben Sorensen To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday,
                                  Message 16 of 28 , Dec 19, 2009
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                                    Do you have a good anti virus program also? I use AVG free and it's been really good.

                                    ----- Original Message -----
                                    From: Ben Sorensen
                                    To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com
                                    Sent: Friday, December 18, 2009 3:42 PM
                                    Subject: [Slovak-World] Computer help...




                                    Hi everyone,

                                    I am constantly getting sent to a Google search for "yieldmanager.com" when I try to open emails. I have tried clearing cookies, updating my antivirus/antispyware, and cleaning out my temporary files. I have also blocked in my internet settings- but then I started thinking: is this rather the effect of a trojan horse rather than the culprit itself? Who would be able to point me in the right direction?
                                    So, then I realized that our Slovak community is made up of geniuses, engineers, top librarians, and crazy musicians... so someone here would have to know! Is that auto-google search for yieldmanager the effect of a larger problem, or is it a version of spyware itself?
                                    Any ideas?
                                    Ben

                                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





                                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  • Joe Krall
                                    I used AVG free for 5 years and ended up with 49 viruses, including Trojan Horses, and a computer that ran like cold molasses. ... From: Edie Sando To:
                                    Message 17 of 28 , Dec 19, 2009
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                                      I used AVG free for 5 years and ended up with 49 viruses, including Trojan
                                      Horses, and a computer that ran like cold molasses.


                                      ----- Original Message -----
                                      From: Edie Sando
                                      To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com
                                      Sent: Saturday, December 19, 2009 12:44 PM
                                      Subject: Re: [Slovak-World] Computer help...



                                      Do you have a good anti virus program also? I use AVG free and it's been
                                      really good.

                                      ----- Original Message -----
                                      From: Ben Sorensen
                                      To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com
                                      Sent: Friday, December 18, 2009 3:42 PM
                                      Subject: [Slovak-World] Computer help...

                                      Hi everyone,

                                      I am constantly getting sent to a Google search for "yieldmanager.com"
                                      when I try to open emails. I have tried clearing cookies, updating my
                                      antivirus/antispyware, and cleaning out my temporary files. I have also
                                      blocked in my internet settings- but then I started thinking: is this rather
                                      the effect of a trojan horse rather than the culprit itself? Who would be
                                      able to point me in the right direction?
                                      So, then I realized that our Slovak community is made up of geniuses,
                                      engineers, top librarians, and crazy musicians... so someone here would have
                                      to know! Is that auto-google search for yieldmanager the effect of a larger
                                      problem, or is it a version of spyware itself?
                                      Any ideas?
                                      Ben

                                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






                                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                    • Vladimir Linder
                                      That is a good one. Vladi
                                      Message 18 of 28 , Dec 19, 2009
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                                        That is a good one.

                                        Vladi

                                        At 11:27 AM 12/19/2009, you wrote:
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >I used AVG free for 5 years and ended up with 49 viruses, including Trojan
                                        >Horses, and a computer that ran like cold molasses.
                                        >
                                        >----- Original Message -----
                                        >From: Edie Sando
                                        >To: <mailto:Slovak-World%40yahoogroups.com>Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com
                                        >Sent: Saturday, December 19, 2009 12:44 PM
                                        >Subject: Re: [Slovak-World] Computer help...
                                        >
                                        >Do you have a good anti virus program also? I use AVG free and it's been
                                        >really good.
                                        >
                                        >----- Original Message -----
                                        >From: Ben Sorensen
                                        >To: <mailto:Slovak-World%40yahoogroups.com>Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com
                                        >Sent: Friday, December 18, 2009 3:42 PM
                                        >Subject: [Slovak-World] Computer help...
                                        >
                                        >Hi everyone,
                                        >
                                        >I am constantly getting sent to a Google search for "yieldmanager.com"
                                        >when I try to open emails. I have tried clearing cookies, updating my
                                        >antivirus/antispyware, and cleaning out my temporary files. I have also
                                        >blocked in my internet settings- but then I started thinking: is this rather
                                        >the effect of a trojan horse rather than the culprit itself? Who would be
                                        >able to point me in the right direction?
                                        >So, then I realized that our Slovak community is made up of geniuses,
                                        >engineers, top librarians, and crazy musicians... so someone here would have
                                        >to know! Is that auto-google search for yieldmanager the effect of a larger
                                        >problem, or is it a version of spyware itself?
                                        >Any ideas?
                                        >Ben
                                        >
                                        >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                        >
                                        >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                        >
                                        >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                        >
                                        >
                                      • Rick Sonzella
                                        I have used the Full Version of AVG and have liked it much better than the big names of Mcfey (sp) or Nortons. The only time I find it slows down my system is
                                        Message 19 of 28 , Dec 19, 2009
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                                          I have used the Full Version of AVG and have liked it much better than the big names of Mcfey (sp) or Nortons. The only time I find it slows down my system is when I am online when it is scanning. I have had no viruses or other issues with it.

                                          Rick Sonzella




                                          ________________________________
                                          From: Vladimir Linder <vlinder49@...>
                                          To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com
                                          Sent: Sat, December 19, 2009 3:35:41 PM
                                          Subject: Re: [Slovak-World] Computer help...


                                          That is a good one.

                                          Vladi

                                          At 11:27 AM 12/19/2009, you wrote:
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >I used AVG free for 5 years and ended up with 49 viruses, including Trojan
                                          >Horses, and a computer that ran like cold molasses.
                                          >
                                          >----- Original Message -----
                                          >From: Edie Sando
                                          >To: <mailto:Slovak- World%40yahoogro ups.com>Slovak-World@ yahoogroups. com
                                          >Sent: Saturday, December 19, 2009 12:44 PM
                                          >Subject: Re: [Slovak-World] Computer help...
                                          >
                                          >Do you have a good anti virus program also? I use AVG free and it's been
                                          >really good.
                                          >
                                          >----- Original Message -----
                                          >From: Ben Sorensen
                                          >To: <mailto:Slovak- World%40yahoogro ups.com>Slovak-World@ yahoogroups. com
                                          >Sent: Friday, December 18, 2009 3:42 PM
                                          >Subject: [Slovak-World] Computer help...
                                          >
                                          >Hi everyone,
                                          >
                                          >I am constantly getting sent to a Google search for "yieldmanager. com"
                                          >when I try to open emails. I have tried clearing cookies, updating my
                                          >antivirus/antispyw are, and cleaning out my temporary files. I have also
                                          >blocked in my internet settings- but then I started thinking: is this rather
                                          >the effect of a trojan horse rather than the culprit itself? Who would be
                                          >able to point me in the right direction?
                                          >So, then I realized that our Slovak community is made up of geniuses,
                                          >engineers, top librarians, and crazy musicians... so someone here would have
                                          >to know! Is that auto-google search for yieldmanager the effect of a larger
                                          >problem, or is it a version of spyware itself?
                                          >Any ideas?
                                          >Ben
                                          >
                                          >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                          >
                                          >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                          >
                                          >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                          >
                                          >







                                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                        • votrubam
                                          ... It d have to be Franzosenstadt if it were to mean French[men s] Town. ... At least the railroad hopes he talks about materialized somewhat sooner than
                                          Message 20 of 28 , Dec 19, 2009
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                                            > Franzen-Stadt as named after an emperor instead of the French.

                                            It'd have to be Franzosenstadt if it were to mean "French[men's] Town."


                                            > <this book was published in 1844; the canal was
                                            > started in 1859 and completed in 1869>

                                            At least the railroad hopes he talks about materialized somewhat sooner than the Suez Canal. Budapest was connected to Bratislava in 1850, which also linked Budapest to Vienna and the rest of Europe, because there already was train service between Bratislava and Vienna.

                                            But the railroad to Debrecen he mentions took longer. When it was subsequently extended, it became the first train link to Europe for Kosice.


                                            > Vienna-Triest (Fiume)

                                            Triest and Fiume are different towns:

                                            <http://tinyurl.com/ydy5q4x>


                                            Just in case -- the way he puts it may not be quite clear: both Triest and Fiume/Rijeka got their train connections well after the book was published, and after Budapest was linked to Vienna via Bratislava. What he calls "the Vienna-Triest" was the Southern Railroad company created to build the tracks, but just a fraction of the link had been finished by then.

                                            Some Slovaks would later take the train from eastern Slovakia to Rijeka and sail to America from there.


                                            Martin
                                          • Ron
                                            To see genuine Hungarian folk costumes, under which I do not mean the elegant costumes of the magnates as they go off to the Parliament and on holidays
                                            Message 21 of 28 , Dec 19, 2009
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                                              <47> To see genuine Hungarian folk costumes, under which I do not mean the elegant costumes of the magnates as they go off to the Parliament and on holidays with opportunities to see and be seen in their colossal splendor and expense as is known in Europe, but rather the people’s costumes as they are utilized in the countryside. For this the visitor must visit the Pest weekly market and the animal market along the Danube warf where you will experience the liveliest, most colorful demonstrations. Residents from the Tisa sell sugar melons and water melons, often of tremendous size and great aroma, from their wagons protected from the hot sun by straw awnings, at bargain prices. Next to them you find grapes and fruit from the southwest, fiddling Gypsies, buyers out of every level of Pest society, lordly hussars in their colorful clothing and the commotion of a carefree and happy life. Often one sees a row of wagons out of upper Hungary loaded with iron and loaded with fruit from the countryside, led by Slovaks, German colonists, and mustachioed Hungarians out of the Puste, all with their own, often original clothing. On the broad expanse of the Danube there are long boats and rafts with fruit, wood, shingles, vegetables and thousands of other products, brought in from the Banat as well as manufactured goods from Vienna. Thus Pest presents a picture of itself as a half-oriental city, with the liveliest times to be had at the weekly and annual markets. <48> It is at the Danube bridges that the activity concentrates itself, and the sellers do a wonderful business, despite leases for which they must pay 40,000 Gulden, and that every well dressed lady or gentleman claims the free passage over the bridge due the nobility, while laborer, craftsman and farmer must pay the normal tariff. There has been so much said about the condition where the rich cross for free and the poor must pay to subsidize the luxuries of the rich that it is not necessary to repeat here. Every reasonable Hungarian sees that as long as those who have the most, don’t pay, there cannot follow any talk of “better class”, therefore the nobility also agreed to pay a toll to support the construction of the Chain Bridge, thus removing another hindrance to its construction.
                                              <prior to the Chain Bridge construction, summer travel between the cities on each side of the Danube was either by ferry or a pontoon bridge erected upon ships on the water. In the winter traffic was across the ice. During freeze up and during spring break up of the ice, commerce came to a halt.>
                                            • Ben Sorensen
                                              Hi Helene! I bet you are right- those who were not fortunate enough to be able to woo the girls with pistalky probably kept lunch there... :-) A trick that I
                                              Message 22 of 28 , Dec 19, 2009
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                                                Hi Helene!
                                                I bet you are right- those who were not fortunate enough to be able to woo the girls with pistalky probably kept lunch there... :-) A trick that I have seen Dusan Holik pull off too! Anyways...

                                                Thank you all for the tips- I am running Trend, a paid version, and I know that there is also an "attack" going on right now- it is Christmas (money-making time, even for hacks and criminals.) I hope you all keep your computers clean, and be careful about spam!!!

                                                I am trying to find some documentation on that "cutting of the shirts" in the Podpolanie- and um... cannot find ANYTHING that is verifiable back to primary sources. Now, I am not using the best library, but it does go back to Joe's comments, and makes them, well, at least verifiable which equals more likely right. Using Occam's razor.... :-) Joe wins. I still would love to know HOW they decided that an open belly shirt would be tolerable in that climate... It is in summer- in August. :-)

                                                Does anyone know about the hats? Why are they so small? It is funny to go from the Liptov "sirak" which is HUGE to these little dinky things lined with chains (Almost everywhere there) or embroidered fabric(Zvolenske Slatiny)/ bolted leather (Ocova).

                                                Oh, and in case I don't get it out due to Adamko's birth- Merry Christmas to all!
                                                Ben
                                                PS- I am taking bets on when it will be.  The docs say the 28th, but because he is Adamko and Slovak, I am betting on the 24th to have Christmas, a birthday, and his name day all in one. :-) Perhaps he will wait till New Year's, and I will have to name him Silvester (Thank you Martin for the insparation for that idea! ) :-)



                                                ________________________________
                                                From: helene cincebeaux <helenezx@...>
                                                To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com
                                                Sent: Fri, December 18, 2009 9:03:45 PM
                                                Subject: Re: [Slovak-World] Computer help...

                                                 
                                                Hi Ben -

                                                Just lately an annoying problem i had increased - when i try to get on Yahoo i get a message talking about a certificate and downloading it and when i say no i get shunted out of yahoo and never get to read my mail. Today had a brainstorm and accessed yahoo thru Mozilla Firefox instead of aol - voila no problem at all and much smoother. Before i was having to sign in all the time even tho i asked to be remembered - those certificates are so suspicious but don't know how to get rid of them.

                                                In regard to those wonderful coats in the Detva/Ocova/ Poniky region worn slung over the shoulder - i was told that the sewn up sleeve was the place to keep lunch. One of the coat maker's years ago told me this - he lived right on the road leading to the festival and was ancient in those days.

                                                I really love the hats and wonder too why they are so relatively tiny and so cute. Love it at a festival when a young 2 or 3 year old boy in full regalia does a dance and holds his hat on and then gets down and slaps the floor - the crowd always goes wild!

                                                helene

                                                helene

                                                ____________ _________ _________ __
                                                From: Ben Sorensen <cerrunos1@yahoo. com>
                                                To: Slovak-World@ yahoogroups. com
                                                Sent: Fri, December 18, 2009 6:42:58 PM
                                                Subject: [Slovak-World] Computer help...

                                                Hi everyone,

                                                I am constantly getting sent to a Google search for "yieldmanager. com" when I try to open emails. I have tried clearing cookies, updating my antivirus/antispywa re, and cleaning out my temporary files. I have also blocked in my internet settings- but then I started thinking: is this rather the effect of a trojan horse rather than the culprit itself? Who would be able to point me in the right direction?
                                                So, then I realized that our Slovak community is made up of geniuses, engineers, top librarians, and crazy musicians... so someone here would have to know! Is that auto-google search for yieldmanager the effect of a larger problem, or is it a version of spyware itself?
                                                Any ideas?
                                                Ben

                                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







                                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                              • votrubam
                                                ... Looking for someone to blame it on, huh? So... one day later, and he can be New Rock. M.
                                                Message 23 of 28 , Dec 20, 2009
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                                                  > will have to name him Silvester (Thank you Martin

                                                  Looking for someone to blame it on, huh? So... one day later, and he can be New Rock.

                                                  M.
                                                • bike_for_life2003
                                                  Some additional thoughts,... Update your anti-virus program weekly. Enable on-access scanning with your anti-virus program. Use a firewall. Secure your
                                                  Message 24 of 28 , Dec 20, 2009
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                                                    Some additional thoughts,...

                                                    Update your anti-virus program weekly.
                                                    Enable on-access scanning with your anti-virus program.
                                                    Use a firewall.
                                                    Secure your wireless network.
                                                    If using Windows, install/run a bot or malware finder (e.g. Spybot Search and Destroy).
                                                    If using Windows, get a registry cleaner and run it periodically.

                                                    As always, an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.

                                                    Paul in NW FL.

                                                    --- In Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com, Rick Sonzella <rson6542@...> wrote:
                                                    >
                                                    > I have used the Full Version of AVG and have liked it much better than the big names of Mcfey (sp) or Nortons. The only time I find it slows down my system is when I am online when it is scanning. I have had no viruses or other issues with it.
                                                    >
                                                    > Rick Sonzella
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    > ________________________________
                                                    > From: Vladimir Linder <vlinder49@...>
                                                    > To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com
                                                    > Sent: Sat, December 19, 2009 3:35:41 PM
                                                    > Subject: Re: [Slovak-World] Computer help...
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    > That is a good one.
                                                    >
                                                    > Vladi
                                                    >
                                                    > At 11:27 AM 12/19/2009, you wrote:
                                                    > >
                                                    > >
                                                    > >I used AVG free for 5 years and ended up with 49 viruses, including Trojan
                                                    > >Horses, and a computer that ran like cold molasses.
                                                    > >
                                                    > >----- Original Message -----
                                                    > >From: Edie Sando
                                                    > >To: <mailto:Slovak- World%40yahoogro ups.com>Slovak-World@ yahoogroups. com
                                                    > >Sent: Saturday, December 19, 2009 12:44 PM
                                                    > >Subject: Re: [Slovak-World] Computer help...
                                                    > >
                                                    > >Do you have a good anti virus program also? I use AVG free and it's been
                                                    > >really good.
                                                    > >
                                                    > >----- Original Message -----
                                                    > >From: Ben Sorensen
                                                    > >To: <mailto:Slovak- World%40yahoogro ups.com>Slovak-World@ yahoogroups. com
                                                    > >Sent: Friday, December 18, 2009 3:42 PM
                                                    > >Subject: [Slovak-World] Computer help...
                                                    > >
                                                    > >Hi everyone,
                                                    > >
                                                    > >I am constantly getting sent to a Google search for "yieldmanager. com"
                                                    > >when I try to open emails. I have tried clearing cookies, updating my
                                                    > >antivirus/antispyw are, and cleaning out my temporary files. I have also
                                                    > >blocked in my internet settings- but then I started thinking: is this rather
                                                    > >the effect of a trojan horse rather than the culprit itself? Who would be
                                                    > >able to point me in the right direction?
                                                    > >So, then I realized that our Slovak community is made up of geniuses,
                                                    > >engineers, top librarians, and crazy musicians... so someone here would have
                                                    > >to know! Is that auto-google search for yieldmanager the effect of a larger
                                                    > >problem, or is it a version of spyware itself?
                                                    > >Any ideas?
                                                    > >Ben
                                                    > >
                                                    > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                    > >
                                                    > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                    > >
                                                    > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                    > >
                                                    > >
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                    >
                                                  • Ron
                                                    In the first run-through for translation I deliberately skipped a page on the difficulties on crossing the river and the memorable flood of 1838 so I could
                                                    Message 25 of 28 , Dec 20, 2009
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                                                      In the first run-through for translation I deliberately skipped a page on the difficulties on crossing the river and the memorable flood of 1838 so I could enjoy the continuity of the story. Here is what I skipped, and it makes an interesting story indeed:

                                                      As much as is unpleasant about the pontoon bridge, especially limiting ship passage to the very early morning opening of the bridge to allow river traffic to pass through, you see in winter, when river traffic is stopped, how essential it is for commerce in both cities during the time when solid ice is not on the river, how these terribly small boats ferry people in this largest of urban areas, often with a drunken boats man at the helm. This is especially true and risk of life during the time when ice floes occupy the river, as testified to by the death statistics generated almost yearly during this season on the Danube. Given this, it is easy to forgive the locals when the flow of the river ice is a basic topic of daily conversation, especially after such a painful experience as they had in 1838. <49> It is not so easily forgotten, particularly by those who suffered the tragic events of that year and had their lives endangered through the water or their property and goods ruined, through the collapse of their buildings and homes, and through the substantial loss of their furnishings. A friend of mine was so suddenly surprised by the high water and had originally held the danger for so small that the opportunity to escape was past and he took too long to pack his already floating possessions that he had to take refuge on a large table. The table floated ever closer to the low ceiling as the door was fully under water when finally the first gray of morning came through the upper part of the window. In his light night clothes he started to freeze as his anxiety climbed to fear of dying as the table started to press against the ceiling beams <picture an open beamed ceiling as is common in half-timbered buildings>. He never gave up the hope that the water would fall as quickly as it had risen. As this did not happen and he chose not to tolerate it any longer, as he was lying flat on the table as water started to flow over the table, he decided to jump in the water, dive under and managed to swim through the fully immersed window, which was by then shattered, and to a balcony where a rescue boat picked him up. A few minutes later the house collapsed with a great crash and took all his worldly goods, which for a student did not amount to much. The results of this springtime swimming party was happily only a cold fever and such uncomfortable memories that it is excusable when each springtime the break up absorbs his full attention.

                                                      <50> Another man I know luckily came through the flood that reached the floor of his house, where during the scary part of the flood took his children who were terribly scared, particularly with the ghostly sounds of collapsing houses disturbed the quiet of the night. It was also near the end of the flooding when he led his children from the house through the dirty flood waters as the water was a few shoes high. At first he carried two smaller ones to friends a few blocks away and then hurried back to pick up the 8 year old son. The boy saw his father from a distance and out of anxiety wanted to hurry to him rather than wait. Unhappily as the father tried to grab the child he sank and was pulled through an underground drain with the draining flood waters. Rescue efforts were unsuccessful and days later the father found the boy’s body on the shores of Csepel Island.

                                                      In memory of the catastrophe the high water marks are inscribed on many public buildings and on the levees as grim reminders in the middle of the city; the levees in dry weather forming an arsenal for horrendous clouds of dust that can make Pest so uncomfortable, and in wet weather are great piles of dirt.
                                                    • Ron
                                                      ********** START POSTING 6 ************* 5 posted 19 Dec The flood of 1838 led to a reconstruction of Pest, which like the Phoenix, arose from the ashes
                                                      Message 26 of 28 , Dec 27, 2009
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                                                        ********** START POSTING 6 ************* 5 posted 19 Dec

                                                        <51> The flood of 1838 led to a reconstruction of Pest, which like the Phoenix, arose from the ashes of destruction to be the beautiful city it is today. The Danube by Ofen is circa 400 klaftern wide, whereas at the pontoon bridge the river narrows to 240 klaftern and carries ships from 6-8000 centner. Over 1000 ships of this size put in the city yearly not counting steam ships, bringing in 15-20000 Gulden. This net income helps balance the costs, as the Danube quay alone cost 100,000 Gulden and the 28 foot wide pontoon bridge with its 240 klaftern length, lighted by 16 lanterns and rests on 42 pontoons. The pontoon bridge alone costs between 40-50000 Gulden to maintain every year. The Danube is deepest on the Ofen side at 48 to 50 feet, the middle between 24 and 36 feet, and on the Pest side depth changes between 12 and 16 feet.
                                                        <51 swim bath, one public, one military, public price is quite cheap.>
                                                        <53> The university library in Ofen is not just at the forefront of discoveries in its specialties, but they also own their own paper factory in Kremnica, steam driven and producing paper of the highest quality. They produce 200 “Reis Machinen-Papier” daily.
                                                        <King of Madagascar p. 54-55 Benjovszky>
                                                        <55 Dame Unger Sabatiera, born in Spis>
                                                        <60> In Pest there are German and Hungarian journals, the German tending to cover more daily life and interests, while the Hungarian tends toward the political. The Pesti-Hirlap (Pest Daily News) edited by Lajos Kossuth is indisputably the most popular, broadest read and most highly valued journal. It is the journal of the opposition and promotes nationalities, currently ultra-Magyarism.
                                                        <62> The other Hungarian journal is the Vilag, aristocratic and promoter of slow progress, presenting Szecheny’s ideas and those penned by many higher aristocrats.
                                                        <63> Taking a look at the German journals, we find the industry seems to be monopolized by Jews. The Pressburger Zeitung (Bratislava Newspaper) and Pannonia are the most talented and capable. The Pressburger Zeitung publishes reports of the Parliament and speeches approved by the censor, but without the name of the speaker, which, however, can be found in the Parliament diary.

                                                        For the German public, this is the most important of the newspapers, but it is regrettable that one cannot find who made which statements, who may have crawled to the tune of the regime, and the country is not in a position to know which of the representatives are the true supporters of the Fatherland.

                                                        The Spiegel newspaper also publishes a business section as well. None of the German newspapers are as profitable as the Pesti-Hirlap, and as has been noted, the censorship of the German papers is much sharper than the Hungarian – which are still well censored.

                                                        <klaftern, originally a mans’ arm-span wide; at that time officially just under 1.9 meters>
                                                        <1 centner = 110 US lbs; thus ships 600 to 800 metric tons>
                                                        <Gulden existed earlier, but Austrian Gulden established in 1748 with 11.6935 g of fine silver, until replaced in 1858 with the new Gulden 11.5 g silver. 1 USD at that time had 1.50463 g gold; in 1853 also produced with 24.0566 g silver>
                                                        Shuh = foot = the sole English measure not fully supplanted by the Metric system at this writing. 1 Austro-Hungarian “Vienna foot” = 318.0807 mm (sic)

                                                        ********** START POSTING 7 ************* 6 posted 27 Dec
                                                      • Ron
                                                        This posting posed a few new situations for me. There are subjects that seemed of general interest but which I chose not to translate, such as the King of
                                                        Message 27 of 28 , Dec 27, 2009
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                                                          This posting posed a few new situations for me. There are subjects that seemed of general interest but which I chose not to translate, such as the King of Madagascar. There are many units of measure as well as money, and trying to express them in a meaningful way presents its own bag of worms.

                                                          <<< Units are taken from “Lexicon der Münzen, Maße u. Gewichte. Zählarten und Zeitgroßen aller Länder der Erde.”, Berlin 1896”. From the units and prices given in the text it is apparent that we will constantly run across units of measure from 1844; to understand these better I am referring to the book above from 1896 to define these and hopefully make them more understandable to the reader in 2010. So this will amount to a concurrent translation and addition to this list, to be appended to the final translation as a foot note. Unit of measures defined from other sources will be so noted. >>>

                                                          Any assist in these matters of units, facts or current proper names will be appreciated! Hopefully I will find time to go back later and confirm / correct such seeming errors. That is why I hope you will join in when you have a reliable source to reference!

                                                          This may be the first mention of Jews in the accounts. My intention is to translate the book as written, and if that includes relevant uncomplimentary passages about Jews, Slovaks, Rusyn, Gypsies or Hungarians. I will include them as best I can convey the original. My intent is not to make this a translation correct to today's sensitivities. To do less would be unfair to the past times and to the reader today.

                                                          I hope you are enjoying this series. I did a search of the book on the internet copy for references to Christmas, but found none. Otherwise I was willing to jump ahead to the season. Google Books has provided their PDF copies so that they are downloadable but not searchable. To search for a person, place or event one must call the book up again at Google Books and search through the internet page!

                                                          Ron
                                                        • Ron
                                                          THIRD CHAPTER After his preceding descriptions, we pick up with Mr. Richter as he describes how one can travel about Hungary without great expense:
                                                          Message 28 of 28 , Jan 1, 2010
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                                                            <65> THIRD CHAPTER


                                                            After his preceding descriptions, we pick up with Mr. Richter as he describes how one can travel about Hungary without great expense: <65> “In the country it is cheaper than in Buda or in Bratislava. For transportation you can buy a pair of horses for 80 – 100 Gulden coins, use them for travel and can easily sell for half that later. The Hungarian ‘national wagon’ is one of a ladder frame and with a cloth cover. A seat can be composed by stacking suitcases and padding them with straw for comfort. Such a wagon can be bought for 40-50 Gulden and sell for close to that, easily. This is a light wagon that does not cut deeply into the mud. The wagon is also a superior place to sleep when one encounters the worst of the guest houses.
                                                            <66>To round out your outfit, you need a coach driver with command of German, Slovak and Hungarian. One can be had for a few Gulden per month plus the cost of travel home at the end of their service. Thus you have a driver, servant and translator all in one person. The alternative is to hire a wagon (Vorspan) for about 2 miles for 1 Gulden. Generally this way of travel and the right to demand a wagon (Vorspan) is only for the resident nobility and royal or county officials, and a foreigner must get permission from the county officials to requisition a wagon. This is easier to do in the winter when the field work is at a minimum.

                                                            Regular express coaches serve the country on a network of roads. Two routes that served North Hungary went from Pest to Presov through Miskolc and Kosice, as well as to Levoca through Gemer County to Ruzomberok and Spisska Nova Ves. The advantage of the express coaches is that they are cheap and quick and travel over good roads, and passengers are protected from cold and rain. The disadvantage of the coaches is that they often depart as soon as they are fully booked and a second wagon is seldom added to the route.

                                                            To hire casual transportation, the driver (Fuhrman) costs at least 1 Gulden per day plus room, meals and money to return to the origin.

                                                            <67> In the High Tatras one travels by foot, while it is easy to find transportation via rafts on the Vah, Tisa and Poprad from Stara Lubovna downstream, and on the Hron from Banska Bystrica down, as well as on the Marisech and Korpos.

                                                            It is beneficial to travel with a local driver on a wagon with straw bundles and at a relaxed speed, as there are no springs to soften the cobblestones.

                                                            In 1839, surveys started for the railroad from Pest to Debrecen with a possible branch to Miscolc and Tokay. 1840 plans were completed and laid before the government …..
                                                            <69,70> dress of the hungarians
                                                            <71> highwaymen & robbers
                                                            <76 > The timber itself has such little value that a cubic klafter of 216 cubic shoes has a worth of 20-30 Sgr. There are other years in which the value is notably better, through oak logs and Knuppern will bring in profit through one’s own work or through leasing to speculators, namely Jews. One would make a mistake to picture these woods to have the same monotone as our <German?> northern forests. Here stands of tall trees alternate with broad fields that will be used as hut and mountain meadow for animal husbandry, then again there are thick impenetrable bushes and noisy mountain streams, standing water, hills and valleys, timber forests and second grown areas. This picturesque landscape is more heavily populated with herds of cattle and sheep than human habitation. <77> These herds lead a beautiful life on the open fields, the melody of their bells ringing day in and day out, with the springs and the meadows in the woods next to the oversized Schledorn thorn hedges or in the seasonal corrals where they will spend the night. These corralled fields will be fertilized through their droppings, and in the future they will be farmed and harvested. Another use of these wooded areas is for the hunting stands that are very well cared for and are increasing in number. It is not seldom that whole herds of deer and red deer together in the field, seemingly having lost their normal wariness. <78>
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