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Re: [Slovak-World] Slovaks shop Poland, Poles ski Poland

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  • Ben Sorensen
    I wonder about the use of Nowy Targ as a meter in this case- even in 2001 I was in Nowy Targ getting basics for cheap. Slovaks in Poprad and the surrounding
    Message 1 of 9 , Mar 3, 2009
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      I wonder about the use of Nowy Targ as a meter in this case- even in 2001 I was in Nowy Targ getting basics for cheap. Slovaks in Poprad and the surrounding area go there at least 3-4 times a year. I didn't see any change from previous years to that article as far as Nowy Targ goes.  Is there any way to actually measure this? (I have been to Nowy Targ so often, and my biggest complaint is that I have never, ever been outside the bazaar area...)
       
      However, the drop at the resorts, in alcohol sales to Poles, and the fact that Slovaks are buying Skody in Poland was a shocker.  I have to say that the drop at the resorts seemed to be a loooong time coming...
      Ben

      --- On Tue, 3/3/09, Martin Votruba <votrubam@...> wrote:


      From: Martin Votruba <votrubam@...>
      Subject: [Slovak-World] Slovaks shop Poland, Poles ski Poland
      To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com
      Date: Tuesday, March 3, 2009, 9:27 AM






      Slovaks are now the wealthy shoppers in Poland, says a Reuters news
      report, but see a drop in the number Poles at the Slovak ski resorts:

      <http://www.reuters com/article/ lifestyleMolt/ idUSTRE52103D200 90302>

      Martin



















      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Martin Votruba
      ... I agree, Ben. It actually goes back for decades, communism or not. It would make sense, though, if more Slovaks went more often now. ... It depends on
      Message 2 of 9 , Mar 3, 2009
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        > I wonder about the use of Nowy Targ as a meter in this case
        > even in 2001 I was in Nowy Targ getting basics for cheap.
        > Slovaks in Poprad and the surrounding area go there at
        > least 3-4 times a year.

        I agree, Ben. It actually goes back for decades, communism or not.
        It would make sense, though, if more Slovaks went more often now.


        > I didn't see any change from previous years to that article
        > as far as Nowy Targ goes.

        It depends on when. The Polish zloty is now 32 percent cheaper for
        the Slovaks than in the summer of 2008. Considering that so many
        things were already cheaper for them then, loading up on tons of
        things must be worth the drive now.

        That, the dramatic drop in the value of the zloty, is the topic of the
        Reuters report.

        <www.reuters.com/article/lifestyleMolt/idUSTRE52103D20090302?sp=true>

        The same drop occurred in the Czech R., and even to a higher degree in
        Hungary. The Slovaks shop the neighboring countries on massive scale
        now, which, of course, could eventually hurt the Slovak economy.


        Martin
      • cerrunos1@yahoo.com
        Ahoj Martin,   All very sensible.  However, I thought that the argument, or the case in point (the falling zlota), was ill-described by the author s choices.
        Message 3 of 9 , Mar 3, 2009
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          Ahoj Martin,
           
          All very sensible.  However, I thought that the argument, or the case in point (the falling zlota), was ill-described by the author's choices. Nowy Targ- such a Mecca for Slovak shopping that you find that you may very well be surprised that you speak Polish so well (almost all sellers speak Slovak there :-P) is not a surprise, nor is the decline of visitors to the Tatra ski resorts.  Thier prices have been climbing for so long that Slovaks, Czechs, Hungarians, and Poles have been finding other places to ski for some time now.  Even the more affluent Europeans- Germans, Austrians, and Russians- have been going back to the Alps as I understand (could be off. My source works in the Tatras, and doesn't really keep official track of such phenomena.) So, I found these two points to be bad metrics, really.
           
          This being said, the car sales in Poland was a BIG surprise. The alcohol sales didn't surprise me much... I figured that with the rise of the Euro and the drop in the surrounding currencies, alcohol would be the first to rise in price.
           
          At least the drop in Czech visitors to the Tatras will also result in a drop in the death toll in that area. :-P (You know... every time someone dies there, he happens to be Czech...)
           
          Ben

          --- On Tue, 3/3/09, Martin Votruba <votrubam@...> wrote:


          From: Martin Votruba <votrubam@...>
          Subject: [Slovak-World] Re: Slovaks shop Poland, Poles ski Poland
          To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com
          Date: Tuesday, March 3, 2009, 10:44 AM






          > I wonder about the use of Nowy Targ as a meter in this case
          > even in 2001 I was in Nowy Targ getting basics for cheap.
          > Slovaks in Poprad and the surrounding area go there at
          > least 3-4 times a year.

          I agree, Ben. It actually goes back for decades, communism or not.
          It would make sense, though, if more Slovaks went more often now.

          > I didn't see any change from previous years to that article
          > as far as Nowy Targ goes.

          It depends on when. The Polish zloty is now 32 percent cheaper for
          the Slovaks than in the summer of 2008. Considering that so many
          things were already cheaper for them then, loading up on tons of
          things must be worth the drive now.

          That, the dramatic drop in the value of the zloty, is the topic of the
          Reuters report.

          <www.reuters. com/article/ lifestyleMolt/ idUSTRE52103D200 90302?sp= true>

          The same drop occurred in the Czech R., and even to a higher degree in
          Hungary. The Slovaks shop the neighboring countries on massive scale
          now, which, of course, could eventually hurt the Slovak economy.

          Martin



















          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Martin Votruba
          ... I agree, Ben. It used New Market 8-) to illustrate the current currency issue, but the general picture there has been largely the same for decades. ...
          Message 4 of 9 , Mar 3, 2009
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            > was ill-described by the author's choices. Nowy Targ- such
            > a Mecca for Slovak shopping

            I agree, Ben. It used New Market 8-) to illustrate the current currency issue, but the general picture there has been largely the same for decades.


            > Russians- have been going back to the Alps

            One of the urban legends propagated by the SK media. The German media actually say that the Alps have had about a 30 percent drop in Russian visitors. Sure, some might have been siphoned off from Slovakia, but it would take more than the undocumented Slovak articles to show whether or to what degree the Western Carpathians and the Alps indeed are communicating vessels.


            Martin
          • Ben Sorensen
            I wonder, though, how much of the drop in tourism in the Tatras (that the article points to as another showcase of how the zlota has dropped... for those who
            Message 5 of 9 , Mar 4, 2009
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              I wonder, though, how much of the drop in tourism in the Tatras (that the article points to as another showcase of how the zlota has dropped... for those who didn't read it) is really from the price gouging that has been steadily rising there.  I remember in 2002-2004, I was always going there with friends- the skiing/hiking was great and services were affordable for Slovak wages.
              2005- things began to get a bit on the expensive side, and from there, prices seemed to just shoot up! (It was good for me, I performed at least once a month in Stary Smokovec- and I watched my services increase too!)
               
              The same was at AquaCity....(which isn't in the article.)  It opened and was pretty expensive- then for a short while the entrance fees dropped for Poprad residents (I was a Hozelec resident- so no good for me!) but last year, that was gone. The prices were really high, and I can only imagine with the onset of the Euro.
               
              It just seems to me that these things were already inflating in price before the collapse of the zlota and the rise of the Euro in Slovakia.  The car sales are a good indicator, though.
               
              As Slovaks are probably the most frugal shoppers and will go out of thier way to find the best deals- even out of the country- could this flow of currency out of the country not have an adverse effect on the Slovak economy? Couldn't this also again LOWER the wages of working Slovaks in a market that is trying to compete with cheaper surrounding countries?
               
              Ben


              --- On Wed, 3/4/09, Martin Votruba <votrubam@...> wrote:


              From: Martin Votruba <votrubam@...>
              Subject: [Slovak-World] Re: Slovaks shop Poland, Poles ski Poland
              To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com
              Date: Wednesday, March 4, 2009, 1:11 AM






              > was ill-described by the author's choices. Nowy Targ- such
              > a Mecca for Slovak shopping

              I agree, Ben. It used New Market 8-) to illustrate the current currency issue, but the general picture there has been largely the same for decades.

              > Russians- have been going back to the Alps

              One of the urban legends propagated by the SK media. The German media actually say that the Alps have had about a 30 percent drop in Russian visitors. Sure, some might have been siphoned off from Slovakia, but it would take more than the undocumented Slovak articles to show whether or to what degree the Western Carpathians and the Alps indeed are communicating vessels.

              Martin



















              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Martin Votruba
              ... Judging from online discussions, Slovaks have been opting for the Alps in increasing numbers for about a decade now. The posts say over and over again
              Message 6 of 9 , Mar 4, 2009
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                > 2005- things began to get a bit on the expensive side

                Judging from online discussions, Slovaks have been opting for the Alps in increasing numbers for about a decade now. The posts say over and over again that the somewhat higher price is worth it given the services and skiing they find there.

                > zlota

                zloty

                > Couldn't this also again LOWER the wages of working Slovaks
                > in a market that is trying to compete with cheaper
                > surrounding countries?

                <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Slovak-World/message/25684>


                Martin
              • Ben Sorensen
                oops- oops- and oops.  Sorry! ...   Is there a projected average income (or incomes) for Slovaks now that the euro has landed? Interesting to see how they
                Message 7 of 9 , Mar 4, 2009
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                  oops- oops- and oops.  Sorry!
                  :-P I have been to the Alps, but never with skis on. Nonetheless, I could see their point.
                   
                  Is there a projected average income (or incomes) for Slovaks now that the euro has landed? Interesting to see how they compare to others in the Eurozone- especially with others holding the same jobs!  I know that my income was high for Slovak teachers, but LOW when compared to the Eurozone. Would love to see the "new" tables.
                  Ben

                  --- On Wed, 3/4/09, Martin Votruba <votrubam@...> wrote:


                  From: Martin Votruba <votrubam@...>
                  Subject: [Slovak-World] Re: Slovaks shop Poland, Poles ski Poland
                  To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com
                  Date: Wednesday, March 4, 2009, 9:15 AM






                  > 2005- things began to get a bit on the expensive side

                  Judging from online discussions, Slovaks have been opting for the Alps in increasing numbers for about a decade now. The posts say over and over again that the somewhat higher price is worth it given the services and skiing they find there.

                  > zlota

                  zloty

                  > Couldn't this also again LOWER the wages of working Slovaks
                  > in a market that is trying to compete with cheaper
                  > surrounding countries?

                  <http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/Slovak- World/message/ 25684>

                  Martin



















                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • Martin Votruba
                  ... The way to do it has been to take what s available and recalculate it. There are tons of online currency calculators. Or to go to the Eurostat databases,
                  Message 8 of 9 , Mar 4, 2009
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                    > Is there a projected average income (or incomes) for Slovaks
                    > now that the euro has landed?

                    The way to do it has been to take what's available and recalculate it. There are tons of online currency calculators. Or to go to the Eurostat databases, they've used the euro for their data for close to two decades now.


                    Martin
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