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Re: [Slovak-World] Digest Number 2328

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  • Paw1776
    Slovak-WorldThere is www.learnslovak.com. It costs $99 per year. The lessons are organized well. You can also purchase CD programs via the internet. Just
    Message 1 of 1 , Aug 24, 2008
      Slovak-WorldThere is www.learnslovak.com. It costs $99 per year. The lessons are organized well. You can also purchase CD programs via the internet. Just do a search for Learn Slovak Language. Be warned...it is difficult to learn on your own!!!

      Polly Walker



      In a message dated 08/22/08 12:18:38 Central Daylight Time, Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com writes:
      Slovak-World
      Messages In This Digest (25 Messages)
      1a. Re: The End of the Prague Spring, August 21st From: Matchett
      1b. Re: The End of the Prague Spring, August 21st From: Martin Votruba
      1c. Re: The End of the Prague Spring, August 21st From: Martin Votruba
      1d. Re: The End of the Prague Spring, August 21st From: Matchett
      1e. Re: The End of the Prague Spring, August 21st From: Ben Sorensen
      1f. Re: The End of the Prague Spring, August 21st From: Ben Sorensen
      1g. Re: The End of the Prague Spring, August 21st From: Ben Sorensen
      1h. Re: The End of the Prague Spring, August 21st From: Ron Matviyak
      1i. Re: The End of the Prague Spring, August 21st From: Ron Matviyak
      1j. Re: The End of the Prague Spring, August 21st From: Martin Votruba
      1k. Re: The End of the Prague Spring, August 21st From: Martin Votruba
      2a. Re: Another Slovak saying From: Ben Sorensen
      2b. Re: Another Slovak saying From: Helen Fedor
      2c. Re: Another Slovak saying From: Helen Fedor
      3a. Learning Slovak From: jesalynd
      3b. Re: Learning Slovak From: fbican@...
      4a. Hungarian Hot Pepper Plants From: mcl60@...
      4b. Re: Hungarian Hot Pepper Plants From: fbican@...
      4c. Re: Hungarian Hot Pepper Plants From: mcl60@...
      5. Continuing with another saying...and hoping that I'm not repeating From: Helen Fedor
      6a. Cell phone for Slovakia From: Victoria Valentine
      6b. Re: Cell phone for Slovakia From: Ben Sorensen
      6c. Re: [SPAM][Slovak-World] Cell phone for Slovakia From: Vladimir Linder
      6d. Re: Cell phone for Slovakia From: fbican@...
      6e. Re: Cell phone for Slovakia From: Ben Sorensen
      View All Topics | Create New Topic Messages
      1a. Re: The End of the Prague Spring, August 21st
      Posted by: "Matchett" wmatchett@... juliamatchett
      Fri Aug 22, 2008 4:15 am (PDT)
      I care and remember that day in 1968. My uncle and two cousins and
      their families were visiting Slovakia at the time and managed to get
      to Vienna before the border was closed.

      That morning in Bratislava, my cousin's wife (Slovak) woke up to a
      phone call from her friend telling her to turn on the TV and that they
      were at war. Isabel tried to walk to work in the confusion. There
      were tanks all over and the tank drivers were lost and didn't seem to
      know where they were going.

      My aunt in Ceske Budejovice (Czech Republic) told me a long time ago
      that there was a tank in the city with the driver's three year old son
      inside for several days. Some caring residents offered to shelter the
      little boy for the driver but he did not trust the Czechs.

      My relatives had been in Prague a week before the invasion and noted
      many U.S. reporters were staying at the same hotel (and wondered what
      was up). The family got to watch some of the filming of the movie
      "The Bridge at Remagen" during that trip. They were always lucky at
      seeing celebrities.
      Julia Matchett
      On Aug 21, 2008, at 11:59 PM, Ben Sorensen wrote:

      > Ooops, correction, Jan Palach burned himself in protest on the 16th
      > of January, not the 19th. On the 19th, he died.
      > Ben
      >
      > --- On Fri, 8/22/08, Ben Sorensen <cerrunos1@...> wrote:
      >
      > From: Ben Sorensen <cerrunos1@...>
      > Subject: [Slovak-World] The End of the Prague Spring, August 21st
      > To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com
      > Date: Friday, August 22, 2008, 5:53 AM
      >
      > I don't know if anyone cares, but today is a watershed day in the
      > history of the Czech and Slovak nations- the Warsaw Pact rolled in
      > the Czechoslovak Socialist Republic to stop the onslaught of
      > "Communism with a human face." Alexander Dubcek, a Slovak and the
      > First Secretary of the Czechoslovak Socialist Party advised the
      > people not to resist the invasion. This was the beginning of his
      > ousting- and the end of the Prague Spring. On January 19th, 1969,
      > Jan Palach immoliated himself in protest in front of the National
      > Museum in Prague. This was 40 years ago to the day....
      >
      > Just thought I would bring it up.
      > Ben
      >
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >
      >
      >

      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


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      Messages in this topic (18)
      1b. Re: The End of the Prague Spring, August 21st
      Posted by: "Martin Votruba" votrubam@... votrubam
      Fri Aug 22, 2008 5:32 am (PDT)
      > Ooops, correction

      Two more "oopses":

      > the First Secretary of the Czechoslovak Socialist Party

      Not "Socialist" -- _Communist_.

      > advised the people not to resist the invasion.

      Dubcek was dragged off to the Soviet Union early during the invasion,
      before which he made no public pronouncement. The Kremlin did not
      return him to Prague until Aug. 27, long after all advice about
      resisting or not resisting had been dispensed by others. Among those
      urging non-resistance from the very start were Slovak and Czech
      broadcasts by US-sponsored Radio Free Europe.

      Martin


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      Messages in this topic (18)
      1c. Re: The End of the Prague Spring, August 21st
      Posted by: "Martin Votruba" votrubam@... votrubam
      Fri Aug 22, 2008 5:37 am (PDT)
      > and managed to get to Vienna before the border was closed.

      Some people may have feared this would happen, but the border was
      never closed for foreign visitors wishing to leave the country,
      whether before, during, or after the invasion -- through the collapse
      of communism.

      Martin


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      Messages in this topic (18)
      1d. Re: The End of the Prague Spring, August 21st
      Posted by: "Matchett" wmatchett@... juliamatchett
      Fri Aug 22, 2008 5:44 am (PDT)
      make that managed to get to Vienna before the tanks rolled into
      Bratislava. Julia M.
      On Aug 22, 2008, at 8:37 AM, Martin Votruba wrote:

      > > and managed to get to Vienna before the border was closed.
      >
      > Some people may have feared this would happen, but the border was
      > never closed for foreign visitors wishing to leave the country,
      > whether before, during, or after the invasion -- through the collapse
      > of communism.
      >
      > Martin
      >
      >
      >

      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


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      Messages in this topic (18)
      1e. Re: The End of the Prague Spring, August 21st
      Posted by: "Ben Sorensen" cerrunos1@... benamilka
      Fri Aug 22, 2008 6:10 am (PDT)
      Yep, my mistake. I was tired, so I just threw in Socialist rather than Communist. I should have remembered, Socialist Republic, but a Communist Party.

      I thought Dubcek was urging non-resistance though, before being whisked away to Moskow, and not really forced out of office until April. Wasn't he then put into forestry after losing his spot in the Party?

      And what is your take on Dubcek's death? I hear "accident," or "conspiracy," and never really know which. I myself think that it is a "Kennedy syndrome-" people looking for a government cover-up where there really isn't one. I don't believe the theories around Dallas- I am one to think that Kennedy was unlucky and an ex-marine shot the way he was trained. I think Dubcek's death was unfortunate, but I highly doubt the "theories" surrounding that too.... just my own two cents, but I am willing to be corrected.

      Ben
      --- On Fri, 8/22/08, Martin Votruba <votrubam@...> wrote:

      From: Martin Votruba <votrubam@...>
      Subject: [Slovak-World] Re: The End of the Prague Spring, August 21st
      To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com
      Date: Friday, August 22, 2008, 2:32 PM

      > Ooops, correction

      Two more "oopses":

      > the First Secretary of the Czechoslovak Socialist Party

      Not "Socialist" -- _Communist_.

      > advised the people not to resist the invasion.

      Dubcek was dragged off to the Soviet Union early during the invasion,
      before which he made no public pronouncement. The Kremlin did not
      return him to Prague until Aug. 27, long after all advice about
      resisting or not resisting had been dispensed by others. Among those
      urging non-resistance from the very start were Slovak and Czech
      broadcasts by US-sponsored Radio Free Europe.

      Martin

      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


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      Messages in this topic (18)
      1f. Re: The End of the Prague Spring, August 21st
      Posted by: "Ben Sorensen" cerrunos1@... benamilka
      Fri Aug 22, 2008 6:16 am (PDT)
      Oh, for Martin and any other teachers, profs, lecturers....:

      IF you are ever going to do a lecture or presentation on 1968-69 Czechoslovakia, please let me know. I would love to know much more about this time. I have heard the stories from those who were in the streets, but I would like to get a more academic view of that time. If you plan it, sign my name to the attendance rolls, and just tell me where I have to drive/fly...
      I would really appreciate it!


      Ben

      --- On Fri, 8/22/08, Ben Sorensen <cerrunos1@...> wrote:

      From: Ben Sorensen <cerrunos1@...>
      Subject: Re: [Slovak-World] Re: The End of the Prague Spring, August 21st
      To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com
      Date: Friday, August 22, 2008, 3:10 PM

      Yep, my mistake. I was tired, so I just threw in Socialist rather than Communist. I should have remembered, Socialist Republic, but a Communist Party.

      I thought Dubcek was urging non-resistance though, before being whisked away to Moskow, and not really forced out of office until April. Wasn't he then put into forestry after losing his spot in the Party?

      And what is your take on Dubcek's death? I hear "accident," or "conspiracy, " and never really know which. I myself think that it is a "Kennedy syndrome-" people looking for a government cover-up where there really isn't one. I don't believe the theories around Dallas- I am one to think that Kennedy was unlucky and an ex-marine shot the way he was trained. I think Dubcek's death was unfortunate, but I highly doubt the "theories" surrounding that too.... just my own two cents, but I am willing to be corrected.

      Ben
      --- On Fri, 8/22/08, Martin Votruba <votrubam@yahoo. com> wrote:

      From: Martin Votruba <votrubam@yahoo. com>
      Subject: [Slovak-World] Re: The End of the Prague Spring, August 21st
      To: Slovak-World@ yahoogroups. com
      Date: Friday, August 22, 2008, 2:32 PM

      > Ooops, correction

      Two more "oopses":

      > the First Secretary of the Czechoslovak Socialist Party

      Not "Socialist" -- _Communist_.

      > advised the people not to resist the invasion.

      Dubcek was dragged off to the Soviet Union early during the invasion,
      before which he made no public pronouncement. The Kremlin did not
      return him to Prague until Aug. 27, long after all advice about
      resisting or not resisting had been dispensed by others. Among those
      urging non-resistance from the very start were Slovak and Czech
      broadcasts by US-sponsored Radio Free Europe.

      Martin

      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


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      Messages in this topic (18)
      1g. Re: The End of the Prague Spring, August 21st
      Posted by: "Ben Sorensen" cerrunos1@... benamilka
      Fri Aug 22, 2008 6:56 am (PDT)
      Were the doors open for foreign visitors to come in and live? I am sure that this didn't happen often, but there had to be some people that also wanted to go the "other way" too.
      Just curious...
      Ben

      --- On Fri, 8/22/08, Martin Votruba <votrubam@...> wrote:

      From: Martin Votruba <votrubam@...>
      Subject: [Slovak-World] Re: The End of the Prague Spring, August 21st
      To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com
      Date: Friday, August 22, 2008, 2:37 PM

      > and managed to get to Vienna before the border was closed.

      Some people may have feared this would happen, but the border was
      never closed for foreign visitors wishing to leave the country,
      whether before, during, or after the invasion -- through the collapse
      of communism.

      Martin

      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


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      Messages in this topic (18)
      1h. Re: The End of the Prague Spring, August 21st
      Posted by: "Ron Matviyak" rmat@... amiak27
      Fri Aug 22, 2008 7:24 am (PDT)
      From www.spiegel.de in their English language sidebar (to the right
      side of the page)

      END OF THE PRAGUE SPRING
      Western Spies Were Out in the Cold
      By Klaus Wiegrefe

      Forty years ago this Thursday, the Soviet Union ended the so-called
      Prague Spring with a massive invasion of troops and tanks.
      Intelligence files from that era show that the largest military
      operation in Europe since 1945 took the West by surprise.
      When it was over, Western officers, awkwardly, seemed surprised.
      Against their will they had to admit the camouflage hiding the march
      of Warsaw Pact troops into Prague had been "good," and the speed of
      their divisions "impressive." The way the Kremlin led units out of the
      western part of the Soviet Union "unnoticed" was also noteworthy. The
      enemy, in short, had scored a "tactical victory."

      This was the verdict on Aug. 27, 1968 from NATO headquarters in
      Brussels on "Operation Danube" -- the suppression of the legendary
      Prague Spring. A week earlier, 27 divisions of Soviet Russians, Poles,
      Hungarians and Bulgarians -- around 300,000 men, armed with 2,000
      heavy cannons -- marched into the small state of Czechoslovakia to end
      the experiment of "socialism with a human face." It was the largest
      military operation since the World War II, and the West was caught off
      guard.

      For months, the eyes of the world had been on Prague, where a group of
      officials around Communist Party chief Alexander Dubcek had challenged
      the Soviets with new civil rights for Czechoslovakia, new press
      freedoms and plans for privatization. Leonid Brezhnev, General
      Secretary of the USSR's Communist Party, ordered a number of
      threatening military maneuvers in and around Czechoslovakia starting
      in May.

      But when the maneuvers grew serious, the American, British and German
      governments seemed to look the other way, judging by documents from
      the NATO archive in Brussels as well as intelligence files seen by
      SPIEGEL. "Not a single evaluation" managed to predict the Soviet
      invasion of Prague, according to the NATO Military Committee, the
      alliance's highest military authority.

      About 7,500 tanks droned towards Prague, more than 1,000 planes were
      launched, including countless transport planes, which brought airborne
      troops to Brno and other towns in Czechoslovakia. Thousands of
      officers across the Eastern Bloc received their marching orders -- and
      no one seemed to notice, at least no Western agent. The Soviet-led
      invasion counts as one of the greatest failures of Western intelligence.

      'Precise and Punctual Reports'
      The American CIA capitulated even before the invasion. There was "no
      possibility" of "predicting the exact circumstances that would give
      the Soviet leadership cause to violently intervene," according to one
      report from mid-July. The West German intelligence service, the
      Bundesnachrichtendienst (BND), did no better; its officers noted
      afterwards that the so-called X-time, the start of the Prague
      invasion, was "detected neither by the BND nor by any other western
      intelligence service."

      In spite of these observations by his spies, the founder of the BND,
      Reinhard Gehlen, boasted openly that his subordinates at the time had
      made exact predictions -- the reports were "precise and above all
      punctual," he said -- and it's because of his praise that the Prague
      invasion has been falsely remembered as a highlight of the BND's history.

      Especially embarrassing: After the invasion, German intelligence
      officials boasted of having "an exact picture of the deployment of
      forces involved in the operations." The BND believed in 1968 that the
      East German National People's Army (NVA) was involved in the brutal
      occupation. In fact, Brezhnev cancelled the NVA's involvement in spite
      of protests by East German leader Walter Ulbricht. The 11th Motorized
      Rifle Division, which the BND claimed to have spotted near the Czech
      town of Budweis, in fact spent the duration of the invasion waiting
      peacefully inside East Germany.

      In hindsight it's no surprise that NATO first learned about the
      invasion from the media. The first Associated Press report came out on
      August 21 at 2:09 a.m., four hours after the start of the assault, and
      it was another hour before alarm bells sounded in Brussels because the
      teletype machine at NATO headquarters had broken down. No one noticed,
      because the officer technically on duty had gone to sleep.
      Mistake followed upon mistake: Classified documents show that the
      Soviet ambassadors to London and Paris had informed the governments
      there on the night of the invasion. Soviet ambassador Anatoly Dobrynin
      even informed US President Lyndon B. Johnson in person -- Brezhnev
      wanted to avoid giving the West the impression that the invasion was a
      preparation for an attack on NATO.

      The three big powers kept this information to themselves. In those
      critical 12 hours the NATO military leaders had to rely on press
      reports, something they complained about furiously. It was a justified
      lament, because there could easily have been incidents on the border
      between West Germany and Czechoslovakia. The invading troops
      immediately secured the country's western border, but in some places
      Soviet tanks roared up to the German line -- the line between east and
      west. What might have happened if a West German commander on the other
      side had lost his nerve is painful to imagine.

      The British ambassador to NATO apologized sheepishly, saying his
      country would never repeat this type of information policy again.
      It later emerged that NATO's Fourth Allied Tactical Air Force were
      aware that Soviet paratroopers had been flown into the CSSR. However,
      the officers in charge had not considered this a risk to the alliance
      and so did not pass on the information.

      These slip ups appear all the more astounding in light of the BND's
      initial claims of success. The agency had sent numerous contacts and
      informants to Prague in the summer of 1968. The order from the BND
      field office was to report "all details of military movements on the
      railways and the streets," under the code word "Nepomuk." Saint John
      of Nepomuk is the patron saint of Bohemia -- and of confessional secrecy.

      No 007 in the Kremlin
      German agents in Prague also wanted to gain "access to the most
      important political people up to Dubcek's inner circle." And much of
      what these and others reported before the invasion had proved correct
      in hindsight, for example the reports about a summit meeting in
      Dresden in March 1968.

      Dubcek had just lifted censorship in Czechoslovakia, and now his
      socialist brother countries accused him of paving the way for the
      counter-revolution. The BND reported that Brezhnev warned him that "he
      would not stand by and watch the breakdown of the communist system."
      If the Czechoslovak Communist Party should "lose control, there would
      be intervention."

      A few weeks later -- in May 1968 -- the BND came to the conclusion
      that "what the Soviets consider the threshold of tolerance has almost
      been reached." Relations between the so-called brother parties in
      Moscow and Prague "must be described as icy."

      This insight could have been easily gleaned from the pages of Pravda.
      Later the BND claimed it had "anticipated that there would be a
      military attack by Moscow in association with its allies from mid
      August 1968." There are, however, no documents supporting this claim,
      and even if they existed, it would still not change the fact that
      anticipation is less than knowledge -- which is the purpose of the
      intelligence agencies.

      Nevertheless the BND wasn't so far off track as the CIA. "Leading CIA
      officials," according to the BND, had believed that "the
      'consideration' of world opinion would force the Soviet Union to
      abstain from a military attack." This was totally off the mark.
      It would have required spies in Moscow to realize that Brezhnev and
      his comrades had made the essential decision in mid-July to crush the
      Prague Spring if the situation there did not change. On Aug. 18 the
      date for "Operation Danube" was set.

      The West had no 007 in the Kremlin.

      No one in the West could explain the purpose of the unusual summer
      maneuvers by the Warsaw Pact states, which were there for all to see.
      Was this to intimidate the Prague reformers, or to prepare the Soviets
      for an invasion? If it was to prepare for an invasion -- when?
      This disorganization is a fact of life at intelligence agencies, as
      the BND freely admitted in a post-factum analysis: "Only in the rarest
      of cases (coincidences?)" does the agency succeed in "penetrating
      potential enemies' most important decision-making bodies."
      It doesn't seem to have occurred to the author of the paper that this
      sentence called into question the very existence of his own agency
      during the Cold War.


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      Messages in this topic (18)
      1i. Re: The End of the Prague Spring, August 21st
      Posted by: "Ron Matviyak" rmat@... amiak27
      Fri Aug 22, 2008 8:59 am (PDT)
      By August 1970 there was no trouble getting a visitor's visa for
      tourism (and probably long before then). Registering with the police
      or the post office was required where you stayed. There was a
      depressed atmosphere at the time, and when I returned to the States
      and told a Hungarian friend that Budapest was a lot happier and
      cheerful than Prague, he was amazed. Prague is where they went to
      party. For a Hungarian to admit that anything Czechoslovakian was
      superior to something Hungarian was extraordinary.

      In 1982 I was planning another trip and inquired about a Slovak
      language course for tourists, hoping to find a two or three week
      immersion course. The CS embassy replied that nothing was available,
      and any course of study had to be arranged through formal educational
      channels - through a university.

      Watergate came about within a year of my 1970 return, and after
      experiencing two weeks of communism, I always wondered what the
      scandalous excitement was about. I went in as a poor student and came
      out knowing I was a rich westerner with a freedom from fear and a
      freedom to travel. They did treat westerners better than they treated
      their own citizens.

      --- In Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com, Ben Sorensen <cerrunos1@...> wrote:
      >
      > Were the doors open for foreign visitors to come in and live? I am
      sure that this didn't happen often, but there had to be some people
      that also wanted to go the "other way" too.
      > Just curious...
      > Ben
      >
      > --- On Fri, 8/22/08, Martin Votruba <votrubam@...> wrote:
      >
      > From: Martin Votruba <votrubam@...>
      > Subject: [Slovak-World] Re: The End of the Prague Spring, August 21st
      > To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com
      > Date: Friday, August 22, 2008, 2:37 PM
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > > and managed to get to Vienna before the border was closed.
      >
      > Some people may have feared this would happen, but the border was
      > never closed for foreign visitors wishing to leave the country,
      > whether before, during, or after the invasion -- through the collapse
      > of communism.
      >
      > Martin
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >


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      Messages in this topic (18)
      1j. Re: The End of the Prague Spring, August 21st
      Posted by: "Martin Votruba" votrubam@... votrubam
      Fri Aug 22, 2008 10:06 am (PDT)
      > I thought Dubcek was urging non-resistance though, before
      > being whisked away to Moskow, and not really forced out of
      > office until April.

      Two separate issues. He was captured and taken to the Soviet Union a
      couple of hours of the start of the invasion, which began with Soviet
      planes landing in Prague around 11:30 PM on Aug. 20. He made no
      public pronouncement before that.

      The country was taken within hours, various calls for non-resistance
      came during the first few days. There was no need to comment on
      non-resistance by the time Dubcek was returned, and formally and
      temporarily restored in office.

      A strategic comparison: When the White House decided to take control
      of hostile Iraq, population ca. 27 mil., it sent in about 130,000
      troops, later increased to about 160,000. When the Kremlin decided to
      take control of allied Czechoslovakia, population ca 14 mil., it
      flooded it with about 500,000 troops.

      > Were the doors open for foreign visitors to come in and live?
      > I am sure that this didn't happen often, but there had to be
      > some people that also wanted to go the "other way" too.

      There weren't except through marriage. Even if there were, it would
      have been practically impossible: there was no housing market (an
      immigrant would have to be given an apartment by the government), no
      jobs except government jobs, etc. There was no such movement among
      the communist countries, either, except through marriage.

      The only foreigners who lived in the communist countries temporarily,
      1-3 years, were a handful (two or three dozen at any given time in
      Czechoslovakia) of researchers and language teachers through
      government-run exchange programs, and foreign diplomats.

      Slovak and other "communist" doctors worked in East Germany for a few
      years in the 1960s, because too many eastern German doctors had
      defected; Vietnamese laborers were brought in to the Central European
      countries in the 1970, but those were also temporary,
      government-sponsored arrangements.

      Martin


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      1k. Re: The End of the Prague Spring, August 21st
      Posted by: "Martin Votruba" votrubam@... votrubam
      Fri Aug 22, 2008 10:17 am (PDT)
      > By August 1970 there was no trouble getting a visitor's visa for
      > tourism (and probably long before then).

      There was a lot of trouble for a lot of people. Vast numbers of
      Westerners were refused a visa for all kinds of political reasons, and
      the same applied to Slovak emigres.

      Martin


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      Messages in this topic (18)
      2a. Re: Another Slovak saying
      Posted by: "Ben Sorensen" cerrunos1@... benamilka
      Fri Aug 22, 2008 5:09 am (PDT)
      HI Helen,

      Awesome sayings, I am loving every second of it. I have a small, nice, perhaps not so polite article from the Slovak Spectator on sayings and expressions. If you read it, set your encoding to "Central Europe (Windows)" and you will be fine. Now, some of the expressions that he is taking as "everyday Slovak" contain words that Niki isn't allowed to say... you will see. I think he should have used in the respective places "vykakat" (poop) and "zadok" (bum, bottom, butt...) what the writer uses as poop and butt are words that you don't really say to Babka.....

      I am not really a prud, but I know also that learners of Slovak either do not know the polite expressions for things (as was my problem for a bit from leearning from villagers and bar-hoppers) or they don't know the vulgar expressions (the learner took up Slovak in a classroom setting- I am exempting Dr. Votruba's students from this, however, as I have a feeling that collegiate Slovak is more in depth than other classes...however, I don't KNOW as I have yet to take one.)

      http://travel.spectator.sk/articles/129/

      Enjoy!!!!
      Ben

      --- On Thu, 8/21/08, Helen Fedor <hfed@...> wrote:

      From: Helen Fedor <hfed@...>
      Subject: [Slovak-World] Another Slovak saying
      To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com
      Date: Thursday, August 21, 2008, 9:35 PM

      O.k., this one needs elucidating:

      Povedz pravdu, prebijes~ hlavu
      "It is truth that makes a man angry." [per the book]

      The given Russian ("Pravda glaza kolet") and Polish ("Prawda w oczy kole") versions are similar to something my father used to say: "Pravda oc~i kole", i.e. Truth prickles/irritates the eyes, the equivalent of the English "The truth hurts". I don't quite get the original quote up top, but these two give me a better sense. Again, all elucidation is appreciated.

      H

      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


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      Messages in this topic (18)
      2b. Re: Another Slovak saying
      Posted by: "Helen Fedor" hfed@... helentrib
      Fri Aug 22, 2008 6:35 am (PDT)
      What happened is that someone removed the marker from the book I'm using, and when I started up the sayings again after quite some time, I couldn't remember where I'd left off, so I took my best guess. Obviously it wasn't a good enough guess and we're re-covering old ground. Sorry.

      H

      >>> "Martin Votruba" <votrubam@...> 8/21/2008 6:39 PM >>>
      > O.k., this one needs elucidating:
      >
      > Povedz pravdu, prebijes~ hlavu
      > "It is truth that makes a man angry." [per the book]
      >
      >
      > The given Russian ("Pravda glaza kolet") and Polish ("Prawda w oczy
      kole") versions are similar to something my father used to say:
      "Pravda oc~i kole", i.e. Truth prickles/irritates the eyes, the
      equivalent of the English "The truth hurts". I don't quite get the
      original quote up top, but these two give me a better sense. Again,
      all elucidation is appreciated.

      We're running in circles on occasion:

      http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Slovak-World/message/12639

      Martin


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      Messages in this topic (18)
      2c. Re: Another Slovak saying
      Posted by: "Helen Fedor" hfed@... helentrib
      Fri Aug 22, 2008 7:03 am (PDT)
      Ah, yes, the earthy Slovaks. I remember some of the things I heard at home...and my parents were religious people. I like the language column in the _Spectator_ and read it whenever I remember and/or get a chance.

      H

      >>> Ben Sorensen <cerrunos1@...> 8/22/2008 8:09 AM >>>
      HI Helen,

      Awesome sayings, I am loving every second of it. I have a small, nice, perhaps not so polite article from the Slovak Spectator on sayings and expressions. If you read it, set your encoding to "Central Europe (Windows)" and you will be fine. Now, some of the expressions that he is taking as "everyday Slovak" contain words that Niki isn't allowed to say... you will see. I think he should have used in the respective places "vykakat" (poop) and "zadok" (bum, bottom, butt...) what the writer uses as poop and butt are words that you don't really say to Babka.....

      I am not really a prud, but I know also that learners of Slovak either do not know the polite expressions for things (as was my problem for a bit from leearning from villagers and bar-hoppers) or they don't know the vulgar expressions (the learner took up Slovak in a classroom setting- I am exempting Dr. Votruba's students from this, however, as I have a feeling that collegiate Slovak is more in depth than other classes...however, I don't KNOW as I have yet to take one.)

      http://travel.spectator.sk/articles/129/

      Enjoy!!!!
      Ben

      --- On Thu, 8/21/08, Helen Fedor <hfed@...> wrote:

      From: Helen Fedor <hfed@...>
      Subject: [Slovak-World] Another Slovak saying
      To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com
      Date: Thursday, August 21, 2008, 9:35 PM

      O.k., this one needs elucidating:

      Povedz pravdu, prebijes~ hlavu
      "It is truth that makes a man angry." [per the book]

      The given Russian ("Pravda glaza kolet") and Polish ("Prawda w oczy kole") versions are similar to something my father used to say: "Pravda oc~i kole", i.e. Truth prickles/irritates the eyes, the equivalent of the English "The truth hurts". I don't quite get the original quote up top, but these two give me a better sense. Again, all elucidation is appreciated.

      H

      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


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      Messages in this topic (18)
      3a. Learning Slovak
      Posted by: "jesalynd" jesalynd@... jesalynd
      Fri Aug 22, 2008 6:08 am (PDT)

      Hello all,

      I am interested in first learning to read Slovak, and then converse in
      Slovak via independent study. Does anyone know if there are any
      Internet-based courses that teach Slovak? If not, what are the best
      books and tapes to use to learn Slovak? There is a sea of information
      out there and any help would be much appreciated.

      Ultimately, I would like to visit Vazec in the High Tatras area and be
      able to communicate with villagers in an attempt to connect with my
      Slovak roots.

      Thanks in advance,
      Jesalyn Ness


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      Messages in this topic (17)
      3b. Re: Learning Slovak
      Posted by: "fbican@..." fbican@...
      Fri Aug 22, 2008 6:58 am (PDT)
      Ahoj, Jesalyn--

      This have been an invaluable tool for me

      http://www.amazon.com/Lingo-TR-2900-Global-Language-Translator/dp/B000AI2TU6/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1219413017&sr=8-1

      They've recently lowered the price. Fit's in your pocket, and will translate 29 languages, including Slovak, Czech, Polish, Hungarian, among others. I've been having a blast with it and use it almost daily.

      Kindest regards,

      Skeeter

      -------------- Original message from "jesalynd" <jesalynd@...>: --------------

      Hello all,

      I am interested in first learning to read Slovak, and then converse in
      Slovak via independent study. Does anyone know if there are any
      Internet-based courses that teach Slovak? If not, what are the best
      books and tapes to use to learn Slovak? There is a sea of information
      out there and any help would be much appreciated.

      Ultimately, I would like to visit Vazec in the High Tatras area and be
      able to communicate with villagers in an attempt to connect with my
      Slovak roots.

      Thanks in advance,
      Jesalyn Ness

      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


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      Messages in this topic (17)
      4a. Hungarian Hot Pepper Plants
      Posted by: "mcl60@..." mcl60@... phillypeg1201
      Fri Aug 22, 2008 6:52 am (PDT)

      Hi:
      I have been a member of Slovak-World for some time now, and I love
      reading the posts. I hit a brick wall with my elusive Maternal
      Great-Grandmother but keep reading the posts with the hope that maybe
      one day another door will open. Anyway, since you are on the subject of
      food, I was wondering if anyone knows of a dependable web site that
      sells Hungarian Hot Pepper "Plants", not the seeds. I realize it is out
      of season now but would like it for next season. I live in Philadelphia
      and Home Depot and Lowes do not sell the plant.
      Thank you.
      Peggy
      Philadelphia, Pa.

      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


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      Messages in this topic (3)
      4b. Re: Hungarian Hot Pepper Plants
      Posted by: "fbican@..." fbican@...
      Fri Aug 22, 2008 7:50 am (PDT)
      Peggy--

      I don't know why you're adverse to growing from seed, but it's easy and fun.

      I have one simlar to this one

      http://www.wormsway.com/detail.asp?sku=MGT

      I like that is closed so my cats can't eat the plants. All you need is some potting soil (available everywhere) some seeds

      http://www.rachelssupply.com/pepper.htm#9

      I had a hard time finding kohlrabi this year (seems to be falling out of favor), so I had to grow my own. Put the mini-greenhouse in front of a sunny window around the begining of April, and you'll be all set. Since the little greenhouse is covered, you only need to water it about once every two weeks.

      Give it a try, I think you'll enjoy it.

      Kindest regards,

      Skeeter

      -------------- Original message from mcl60@...: --------------

      Hi:
      I have been a member of Slovak-World for some time now, and I love
      reading the posts. I hit a brick wall with my elusive Maternal
      Great-Grandmother but keep reading the posts with the hope that maybe
      one day another door will open. Anyway, since you are on the subject of
      food, I was wondering if anyone knows of a dependable web site that
      sells Hungarian Hot Pepper "Plants", not the seeds. I realize it is out
      of season now but would like it for next season. I live in Philadelphia
      and Home Depot and Lowes do not sell the plant.
      Thank you.
      Peggy
      Philadelphia, Pa.

      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


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      Messages in this topic (3)
      4c. Re: Hungarian Hot Pepper Plants
      Posted by: "mcl60@..." mcl60@... phillypeg1201
      Fri Aug 22, 2008 8:56 am (PDT)

      Hi Skeeter:
      Thanks for answering my post. I have my reasons for not wanting to
      seed. One reason is because I live in a row home in South Philadelphia
      with limited yard space, another is I don't have a window where my yard
      is. I have double french doors that lead out to the yard, so that left
      no room for windows. I appreciate your suggestions though.
      Peggy

      On Fri, Aug 22, 2008 at 10:50 AM, fbican@... wrote:

      Peggy--

      I don't know why you're adverse to growing from seed, but it's easy and
      fun.

      I have one simlar to this one

      http://www.wormsway .com/detail. asp?sku=MGT
      <http://www.wormsway.com/detail.asp?sku=MGT>

      I like that is closed so my cats can't eat the plants. All you need is
      some potting soil (available everywhere) some seeds

      http://www.rachelss upply.com/ pepper.htm# 9
      <http://www.rachelssupply.com/pepper.htm#9>

      I had a hard time finding kohlrabi this year (seems to be falling out of
      favor), so I had to grow my own. Put the mini-greenhouse in front of a
      sunny window around the begining of April, and you'll be all set. Since
      the little greenhouse is covered, you only need to water it about once
      every two weeks.

      Give it a try, I think you'll enjoy it.

      Kindest regards,

      Skeeter

      ------------ -- Original message from mcl60@verizon. net
      <mailto:mcl60@...> : ------------ --

      Hi:
      I have been a member of Slovak-World for some time now, and I love
      reading the posts. I hit a brick wall with my elusive Maternal
      Great-Grandmother but keep reading the posts with the hope that maybe
      one day another door will open. Anyway, since you are on the subject of
      food, I was wondering if anyone knows of a dependable web site that
      sells Hungarian Hot Pepper "Plants", not the seeds. I realize it is out
      of season now but would like it for next season. I live in Philadelphia
      and Home Depot and Lowes do not sell the plant.
      Thank you.
      Peggy
      Philadelphia, Pa.

      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

      <mailto:mcl60@...>

      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


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      Messages in this topic (3)
      5. Continuing with another saying...and hoping that I'm not repeating
      Posted by: "Helen Fedor" hfed@... helentrib
      Fri Aug 22, 2008 7:23 am (PDT)
      Prazdne vrece nestoji rovno

      "Empty sacks will never stand upright"

      H


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      Messages in this topic (1)
      6a. Cell phone for Slovakia
      Posted by: "Victoria Valentine" vvalentine4@...
      Fri Aug 22, 2008 8:35 am (PDT)
      Has anyone used Call in Europe?
      http://www.callineurope.com/cgi-bin/cie.cgi?b=(null)&p=how_it_works.html
      My husband is hyperventilating about not being able to use his Verizon phone
      without the possibility of HUGE bills when we get home. I've also been
      looking into an unlocked cell phone from CompUSA, but I'm not sure how to
      get a SIM card that would work in Slovakia, Austria, France and UK. Anyone
      have suggestions or tips?
      Thanks
      Vickie


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      Messages in this topic (5)
      6b. Re: Cell phone for Slovakia
      Posted by: "Ben Sorensen" cerrunos1@... benamilka
      Fri Aug 22, 2008 9:07 am (PDT)
      Get a world phone from Verizon Wireless or any other carrier, and tell them to unlock it. Then go to Slovakia and get a pay as you go SIM card. :-) Then have fun. OR, you can buy an unlocked phone from a Slovak carrier and bring it back to use with T-mobile, SunCom, or AT&T. In the US, they will give you some runaround, but just stick to your guns. Cite that all phones must be unlockable- and that you DEMAND that it be unlocked.

      The pay as you go option is always good in Slovakia and Europe, as they are much more reasonable about it that the American carriers.... trust me, I work for one. I use a Slovak SIM that I keep between the battery and the battery door when I travel...
      Ben

      --- On Fri, 8/22/08, Victoria Valentine <vvalentine4@...> wrote:

      From: Victoria Valentine <vvalentine4@...>
      Subject: [Slovak-World] Cell phone for Slovakia
      To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com
      Date: Friday, August 22, 2008, 5:35 PM

      Has anyone used Call in Europe?
      http://www.callineu rope.com/ cgi-bin/cie. cgi?b=(null)&p=how_ it_works. html
      My husband is hyperventilating about not being able to use his Verizon phone
      without the possibility of HUGE bills when we get home. I've also been
      looking into an unlocked cell phone from CompUSA, but I'm not sure how to
      get a SIM card that would work in Slovakia, Austria, France and UK. Anyone
      have suggestions or tips?
      Thanks
      Vickie

      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


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      Messages in this topic (5)
      6c. Re: [SPAM][Slovak-World] Cell phone for Slovakia
      Posted by: "Vladimir Linder" vlinder49@... vlinder1949
      Fri Aug 22, 2008 9:10 am (PDT)
      You buy a sim card in Slovakia and pre pay the minutes and there you
      go on unlocked phone.

      No problem.

      Vladi

      At 08:35 AM 8/22/2008, you wrote:

      >Has anyone used Call in Europe?
      ><http://www.callineurope.com/cgi-bin/cie.cgi?b=>http://www.callineurope.com/cgi-bin/cie.cgi?b=(null)&p=how_it_works.html
      >
      >My husband is hyperventilating about not being able to use his Verizon phone
      >without the possibility of HUGE bills when we get home. I've also been
      >looking into an unlocked cell phone from CompUSA, but I'm not sure how to
      >get a SIM card that would work in Slovakia, Austria, France and UK. Anyone
      >have suggestions or tips?
      >Thanks
      >Vickie
      >
      >


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      Messages in this topic (5)
      6d. Re: Cell phone for Slovakia
      Posted by: "fbican@..." fbican@...
      Fri Aug 22, 2008 9:23 am (PDT)
      Here's a suggestion for you. If you have a laptop with wireless capability, consider a USB-connected internet phone. I've got a US Robotics internet phone and Skype service (it was $29). When I called our friend Nick Holcz in Australiaon using the land-line, we talked for an hour, and it cost $160. Called him last month, again for about an hour with the internet phone, it was $1.58. The connection was good for both of us.

      If you're making international calls, an internet phone can save you *LOTS* of money.

      Kindest regards,

      Skeeter

      -------------- Original message from "Victoria Valentine" <vvalentine4@...>: --------------

      Has anyone used Call in Europe?
      http://www.callineurope.com/cgi-bin/cie.cgi?b=(null)&p=how_it_works.html
      My husband is hyperventilating about not being able to use his Verizon phone
      without the possibility of HUGE bills when we get home. I've also been
      looking into an unlocked cell phone from CompUSA, but I'm not sure how to
      get a SIM card that would work in Slovakia, Austria, France and UK. Anyone
      have suggestions or tips?
      Thanks
      Vickie

      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


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      Messages in this topic (5)
      6e. Re: Cell phone for Slovakia
      Posted by: "Ben Sorensen" cerrunos1@... benamilka
      Fri Aug 22, 2008 9:56 am (PDT)
      HERE HERE! Without skype, I would be absolutely lost. It is my lifeline....
      Ben

      --- On Fri, 8/22/08, fbican@... <fbican@...> wrote:

      From: fbican@... <fbican@...>
      Subject: Re: [Slovak-World] Cell phone for Slovakia
      To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com
      Date: Friday, August 22, 2008, 6:20 PM

      Here's a suggestion for you. If you have a laptop with wireless capability, consider a USB-connected internet phone. I've got a US Robotics internet phone and Skype service (it was $29). When I called our friend Nick Holcz in Australiaon using the land-line, we talked for an hour, and it cost $160. Called him last month, again for about an hour with the internet phone, it was $1.58. The connection was good for both of us.

      If you're making international calls, an internet phone can save you *LOTS* of money.

      Kindest regards,

      Skeeter

      ------------ -- Original message from "Victoria Valentine" <vvalentine4@ comcast.net>: ------------ --

      Has anyone used Call in Europe?
      http://www.callineu rope.com/ cgi-bin/cie. cgi?b=(null)&p=how_ it_works. html
      My husband is hyperventilating about not being able to use his Verizon phone
      without the possibility of HUGE bills when we get home. I've also been
      looking into an unlocked cell phone from CompUSA, but I'm not sure how to
      get a SIM card that would work in Slovakia, Austria, France and UK. Anyone
      have suggestions or tips?
      Thanks
      Vickie

      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


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