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Re: [Slovak-World] Re: Euro go-ahead

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  • Nick Holcz
    Yes, perceptions are perception and the perception when Australia changed to decimal currency A$ ( way back in 1966, my God I am getting old) that prices went
    Message 1 of 18 , May 3, 2008
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      Yes, perceptions are perception and the perception when Australia
      changed to decimal currency A$ ( way back in 1966, my God I am
      getting old) that prices went up and also when we changed our weights
      and measures system to decimal that the same thing happened.

      Nick
    • Martin Votruba
      ... Thanks for the examples, Nick. People are capable of projecting such perceptions on other creatures, too. After Switzerland first adopted daylight saving
      Message 2 of 18 , May 3, 2008
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        > that prices went up and also when we changed our weights
        > and measures system to decimal that the same thing happened.

        Thanks for the examples, Nick. People are capable of projecting such
        perceptions on other creatures, too. After Switzerland first adopted
        daylight saving time in 1981, farmers swore that milk yield was
        dropping. The cows must have all rushed to the village square to
        check the church clock, and the Alpine grass never tasted the same.


        Martin

        votruba "at" pitt "dot" edu
      • Ron Matviyak
        Ahh, shaded of change. I remember a bit of hte same complaining when the US changed booze sales from fifths (English units) to metric (750ml). I was on Skype
        Message 3 of 18 , May 3, 2008
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          Ahh, shaded of change. I remember a bit of hte same complaining when
          the US changed booze sales from fifths (English units) to metric (750ml).

          I was on Skype with Germany last night and the senior salesman friend
          replied "Kaufkraft ist nicht bei Gehalt angekommen , immer mehr Leute
          haben Schulden und wenig Geld" Purchasing power hasn't kept up with
          inflation, and more people are in debt and have less money.

          To back up the argument for statistics and perception, the NY Times
          recently published

          http://www.nytimes.com/2008/05/01/business/worldbusiness/01middle.html

          Ron

          --- In Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com, "Martin Votruba" <votrubam@...>
          wrote:
          >
          > > that prices went up and also when we changed our weights
          > > and measures system to decimal that the same thing happened.
          >
          > Thanks for the examples, Nick. People are capable of projecting such
          > perceptions on other creatures, too. After Switzerland first adopted
          > daylight saving time in 1981, farmers swore that milk yield was
          > dropping. The cows must have all rushed to the village square to
          > check the church clock, and the Alpine grass never tasted the same.
          >
          >
          > Martin
          >
          > votruba "at" pitt "dot" edu
          >
        • skeeter
          For what it s worth, though somewhat unrelated, there was a push on here in the USA 30-some years ago to switch from the English measurement system to the
          Message 4 of 18 , May 3, 2008
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            For what it's worth, though somewhat unrelated, there was a push on here in the USA 30-some years ago to switch from the English measurement system to the Metric system. That never quite caught on. What did I get out of it? I had to buy two sets of tools. One metric for my Japanese motorcycles and German car, and one English for most everything else. I ws already savvy with the metric system (almost everything in the sciences was already measured in milliliters, centimeters, and the like). Now, if you don't know one from the other, you're out of luck.

            ----- Original Message -----
            From: Nick Holcz
            To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Saturday, May 03, 2008 10:15 AM
            Subject: Re: [Slovak-World] Re: Euro go-ahead


            Yes, perceptions are perception and the perception when Australia
            changed to decimal currency A$ ( way back in 1966, my God I am
            getting old) that prices went up and also when we changed our weights
            and measures system to decimal that the same thing happened.

            Nick




            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Martin Votruba
            ... Thanks, Ron. It was refreshing to see no blame on the euro for that. Since the collapse of communism, not only that part of the continent, but also
            Message 5 of 18 , May 3, 2008
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              > To back up the argument for statistics and perception

              Thanks, Ron. It was refreshing to see no blame on the euro for that.
              Since the collapse of communism, not only that part of the continent,
              but also Western Europe has been slowly moving towards the large gap
              between the top incomes and the middle- and lower-middle-class incomes
              that has been typical of the US. The American laborers' average
              purchasing power has been mostly oscillating rather than rising for
              about three decades now.

              The gap is already quite large in Slovakia -- fewer than 30% of the
              population, a large segment of them in Bratislava, have salaries above
              the country's average, 70% earn less than average salaries. A
              specific post-com situation that fosters social discontent is that,
              broken down by age groups, the highest average salaries are earned by
              the 30-34-year-old Slovaks. By comparison, the people in their 50s,
              whose incomes are the highest in most societies, which gives many of
              them a sense of accomplishment and deserved status, are making about
              10% less in Slovakia.

              At the same time, while the gap between the middle-class and the top
              earners has been opening faster in the post-com countries than in the
              older European democracies, the purchasing power of all the employed
              has been growing in Slovakia, and substantially so. A recent article
              has worked out that the Slovaks were able to buy about 6.2% more with
              their salaries by the end of 2007 than when the year began, an
              exceptional year, but part of a trend. Of course, that's not what the
              doom-and-gloom Slovaks say in opinion polls.


              Martin

              votruba "at" pitt "dot" edu
            • Martin Votruba
              ... As to Slovakia, here are a few price-to-salary comparisons -- how much a given item cost a Slovak with the average income in 2007 by comparison to the same
              Message 6 of 18 , May 3, 2008
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                > To back up the argument for statistics and perception

                As to Slovakia, here are a few price-to-salary comparisons -- how much
                a given item cost a Slovak with the average income in 2007 by
                comparison to the same in 2002 (a minus means a drop):

                bread, butter: the same percentage of income as in 2002
                pork (a popular cut): -42%
                chicken: -31%
                beer: -23%
                TV: -65%
                small Skoda car: -33%
                bank account charges: +39%

                The Slovaks' rising incomes have substantially outpaced the rising
                prices of the listed items. On the other hand, an opinion poll among
                the gainsaying Slovaks might suggest that everything is 2-3 times more
                expensive now and that they are reduced to borrowing money to take the
                bus to work.


                Martin

                votruba "at" pitt "dot" edu
              • skeeter
                The American laborers average purchasing power has been mostly oscillating rather than rising for about three decades now. I was watching the news last
                Message 7 of 18 , May 4, 2008
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                  "The American laborers' average
                  purchasing power has been mostly oscillating rather than rising for
                  about three decades now."

                  I was watching the news last night (I don't remember which network) and they said the average American CEO's salary has gone from 40-times the laborer's salary in 1980 to 433-times the laborer's salary today. The rich get richer, and the little guy gets screwed. That might explain some of it.



                  ----- Original Message -----
                  From: Martin Votruba
                  To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com
                  Sent: Saturday, May 03, 2008 4:46 PM
                  Subject: [Slovak-World] Re: Euro go-ahead


                  > To back up the argument for statistics and perception

                  Thanks, Ron. It was refreshing to see no blame on the euro for that.
                  Since the collapse of communism, not only that part of the continent,
                  but also Western Europe has been slowly moving towards the large gap
                  between the top incomes and the middle- and lower-middle-class incomes
                  that has been typical of the US. The American laborers' average
                  purchasing power has been mostly oscillating rather than rising for
                  about three decades now.

                  The gap is already quite large in Slovakia -- fewer than 30% of the
                  population, a large segment of them in Bratislava, have salaries above
                  the country's average, 70% earn less than average salaries. A
                  specific post-com situation that fosters social discontent is that,
                  broken down by age groups, the highest average salaries are earned by
                  the 30-34-year-old Slovaks. By comparison, the people in their 50s,
                  whose incomes are the highest in most societies, which gives many of
                  them a sense of accomplishment and deserved status, are making about
                  10% less in Slovakia.

                  At the same time, while the gap between the middle-class and the top
                  earners has been opening faster in the post-com countries than in the
                  older European democracies, the purchasing power of all the employed
                  has been growing in Slovakia, and substantially so. A recent article
                  has worked out that the Slovaks were able to buy about 6.2% more with
                  their salaries by the end of 2007 than when the year began, an
                  exceptional year, but part of a trend. Of course, that's not what the
                  doom-and-gloom Slovaks say in opinion polls.

                  Martin

                  votruba "at" pitt "dot" edu





                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • Martin Votruba
                  ... Yes, Skeeter, that s part of the difference between the European and American societies that I mentioned. That ratio has traditionally been 1:10 to 1:20
                  Message 8 of 18 , May 4, 2008
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                    > the average American CEO's salary has gone from 40-times
                    > the laborer's salary in 1980 to 433-times the laborer's
                    > salary today.

                    Yes, Skeeter, that's part of the difference between the European and
                    American societies that I mentioned. That ratio has traditionally
                    been 1:10 to 1:20 in the European democracies, but it has started
                    moving faster in the direction of the US since the collapse of communism.


                    Martin

                    votruba "at" pitt "dot" edu
                  • Martin Votruba
                    As expected the European Commission has recommended today that Slovakia adopt the euro on Jan. 1, 2009. A report is below. Martin votruba at pitt dot edu
                    Message 9 of 18 , May 7, 2008
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                      As expected the European Commission has recommended today that
                      Slovakia adopt the euro on Jan. 1, 2009. A report is below.


                      Martin

                      votruba "at" pitt "dot" edu

                      x x x



                      EU: No Country But Slovakia Meets Euro Adoption Criteria

                      DOW JONES NEWSWIRES, 5/7/2008 -- No other country but Slovakia meets
                      the criteria for euro adoption, the European Commission said Wednesday
                      in its latest convergence report, giving a green light to Slovakia's
                      bid to join the euro zone.

                      The commission, the E.U.'s executive arm, along with the European
                      Central Bank, reports at least once every two years on the progress
                      made by E.U. member states in fulfilling obligations to achieve
                      economic and monetary union.

                      Slovakia received recommendation from the European Union Wednesday to
                      join the fifteen member state-strong euro-zone, and is lined-up to
                      become the fourth country in two years to join the club after Slovenia
                      did so on the first day of 2007. Cyprus and Malta entered at the
                      beginning of this year.

                      Poland, Hungary, the Czech Republic, and the Baltic states of
                      Lithuania, Latvia and Estonia joined the E.U. along with Slovakia in
                      May 2004, while Romania and Bulgaria were the latest to join the
                      twenty-seven member free-trade block in January 2007.
                    • J Michutka
                      So how is the word euro declined in Slovak--like mesto? e.g. jedno euro, dva eura , sedem .... eur??? Or is it not declined, and just remains euro
                      Message 10 of 18 , May 7, 2008
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                        So how is the word "euro" declined in Slovak--like mesto? e.g.
                        jedno euro, dva eura' , sedem .... eur??? Or is it not declined, and
                        just remains "euro" regardless of number? And what do they call the
                        "cents" in Slovak?

                        I really miss having different and interesting monies from country to
                        country, but on the other hand, it will be so much easier....no
                        looking for a place to get the local currency every time I cross a
                        border, or having to plan ahead and carry multiple currencies.

                        Julie Michutka
                        jmm@...


                        On May 7, 2008, at 9:20 AM, Martin Votruba wrote:

                        > As expected the European Commission has recommended today that
                        > Slovakia adopt the euro on Jan. 1, 2009. A report is below.
                        >
                        >
                        > Martin
                        >
                      • skeeter
                        It s not just in Europe. I ve traveled to Canada (Canadian dollars) and Mexico (Pesos), and had a hassle converting them back into US dollars when I got home.
                        Message 11 of 18 , May 7, 2008
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                          It's not just in Europe. I've traveled to Canada (Canadian dollars) and Mexico (Pesos), and had a hassle converting them back into US dollars when I got home. I should have just kept them -- their currencies are much more attractive than ours.

                          ----- Original Message -----
                          From: J Michutka
                          To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com
                          Sent: Wednesday, May 07, 2008 10:07 AM
                          Subject: [Slovak-World] declining the euro


                          So how is the word "euro" declined in Slovak--like mesto? e.g.
                          jedno euro, dva eura' , sedem .... eur??? Or is it not declined, and
                          just remains "euro" regardless of number? And what do they call the
                          "cents" in Slovak?

                          I really miss having different and interesting monies from country to
                          country, but on the other hand, it will be so much easier....no
                          looking for a place to get the local currency every time I cross a
                          border, or having to plan ahead and carry multiple currencies.

                          Julie Michutka
                          jmm@...

                          On May 7, 2008, at 9:20 AM, Martin Votruba wrote:

                          > As expected the European Commission has recommended today that
                          > Slovakia adopt the euro on Jan. 1, 2009. A report is below.
                          >
                          >
                          > Martin
                          >




                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • Martin Votruba
                          ... Yes, Julie (_dve_). ... _Cent_ [tsent] (masc., hard pattern: 2 centy, 5 centov). ... Since Slovakia is surrounded by countries that aren t meeting the
                          Message 12 of 18 , May 7, 2008
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                            > how is the word "euro" declined in Slovak--like mesto? e.g.
                            > jedno euro, dva eura' , sedem .... eur???

                            Yes, Julie (_dve_).

                            > And what do they call the "cents" in Slovak?

                            _Cent_ [tsent] (masc., hard pattern: 2 centy, 5 centov).


                            > no looking for a place to get the local currency every time
                            > I cross a border, or having to plan ahead and carry multiple

                            Since Slovakia is surrounded by countries that aren't meeting the
                            criteria, this will not be different any time soon for the Slovaks who
                            mostly travel to Poland, Hungary, and the Czech R. When they joined
                            the European Union in 2004, all three were saying they would adopt the
                            euro by 2009-2010, but have failed. The current very tentative
                            estimates are that they might meet the criteria to adopt the euro by:

                            Poland - 2012
                            Czech R. - 2012
                            Hungary - 2014

                            Only the Slovaks' second major summer destination, Greece, has the
                            euro, and Austria and the countries west of it (except Switzerland).


                            Martin

                            votruba "at" pitt "dot" edu
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