Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Finans Kozu

Expand Messages
  • William F Brna
    My mother used to have a mild expletive which she used when something didn t go right. It was Finans Kozu . A koza is a goat, but who or what was Finans?
    Message 1 of 29 , Feb 28, 2008
    View Source
    • 0 Attachment
      My mother used to have a mild expletive which she used when something
      didn't go right. It was "Finans Kozu". A "koza" is a goat, but who or
      what was Finans?

      William F. Brna
    • Martin Votruba
      ... It s an older word. Very roughly, the equivalent might be the tax man. It used to refer to a member of the border customs patrol, or social security
      Message 2 of 29 , Feb 28, 2008
      View Source
      • 0 Attachment
        > when something didn't go right. It was "Finans Kozu".
        > A "koza" is a goat, but who or what was Finans?

        It's an older word. Very roughly, the equivalent might be "the tax
        man." It used to refer to a member of the border customs patrol, or
        "social security inspector," or an officer of another government
        branch in charge of revenue.

        The whole phrase -- ako financ kozu -- was used as a
        comparison-intensifier, but it is certainly not common all over
        Slovakia nowadays and I don't know how common it may have been in the
        past. The phrase occurs with some frequency in Moravia, so it may be,
        or may have been, limited to the adjacent Slovak regions (just a guess
        -- I'd be interested to know if anyone except Bill recognizes it).

        The basis for comparison-intensification used to be some kind of assault:

        I'll beat you up / tell you off / drive you away [etc.] "like a financ
        [does it to] a goat."

        The figurative meaning being "a lot."

        I don't know how the phrase came about: whether it was originally
        ironic (because beating/driving a goat -- by comparison to a horse --
        was seen as "weak"), or whether the word _financ_ may have replaced an
        older word for the landlord's tax collector (forcefully taking a
        farmer's goat), or...


        Martin

        votruba "at" pitt "dot" edu
      • William F Brna
        Martin. Thanks for your reply. My mother was born in Krasna Horka. Last May, I visited Slovakia and discussed Slovak, as spoken in Orava, with my cousin. I
        Message 3 of 29 , Feb 29, 2008
        View Source
        • 0 Attachment
          Martin.

          Thanks for your reply. My mother was born in Krasna Horka. Last May, I
          visited Slovakia and discussed Slovak, as spoken in Orava, with my
          cousin. I mentioned a number of words that I was familiar with but were
          either unknown or in limited use in present day Slovak. For example, we
          used "i" for "and", rather than the currently used "a". We also used
          "umrel" for "zomrel" among others. My cousin said that these were
          influenced by the proximity to the Polish border.

          William F. Brna

          On Fri, 29 Feb 2008 06:31:46 -0000 "Martin Votruba" <votrubam@...>
          writes:
          > when something didn't go right. It was "Finans Kozu".
          > A "koza" is a goat, but who or what was Finans?

          It's an older word. Very roughly, the equivalent might be "the tax
          man." It used to refer to a member of the border customs patrol, or
          "social security inspector," or an officer of another government
          branch in charge of revenue.

          The whole phrase -- ako financ kozu -- was used as a
          comparison-intensifier, but it is certainly not common all over
          Slovakia nowadays and I don't know how common it may have been in the
          past. The phrase occurs with some frequency in Moravia, so it may be,
          or may have been, limited to the adjacent Slovak regions (just a guess
          -- I'd be interested to know if anyone except Bill recognizes it).

          The basis for comparison-intensification used to be some kind of assault:

          I'll beat you up / tell you off / drive you away [etc.] "like a financ
          [does it to] a goat."

          The figurative meaning being "a lot."

          I don't know how the phrase came about: whether it was originally
          ironic (because beating/driving a goat -- by comparison to a horse --
          was seen as "weak"), or whether the word _financ_ may have replaced an
          older word for the landlord's tax collector (forcefully taking a
          farmer's goat), or...

          Martin

          votruba "at" pitt "dot" edu




          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Martin Votruba
          ... Yes, _i_ has been only regional for a long time, also present in East Slovakia. But it s not necessarily Polish influence, it s also standard usage in
          Message 4 of 29 , Feb 29, 2008
          View Source
          • 0 Attachment
            > used "i" for "and", rather than the currently used "a".

            Yes, _i_ has been only regional for a long time, also present in East
            Slovakia. But it's not necessarily Polish influence, it's also
            standard usage in Czech, Rusyn, and other Slavic languages. It
            probably disappeared in much of Slovakia rather than being imported.
            Especially the Slovak journalists still use _i_ a lot in their writing
            although most never say it.

            > "umrel" for "zomrel" among others.

            Again, not necessarily from Polish. u- is also used in Czech,
            Russian, and some stylists have actually advocated the use of _umrel_
            as the more traditional version in Slovak. Both _umrel_ and _zomrel_
            are accepted as correct.


            Martin

            votruba "at" pitt "dot" edu
          • William F Brna
            Martin, Thanks for the elucidation. I was referring to the fact that I learned Slovak from my parents who came to this country in 1908. I had assumed that
            Message 5 of 29 , Feb 29, 2008
            View Source
            • 0 Attachment
              Martin,

              Thanks for the elucidation. I was referring to the fact that I learned
              Slovak from my parents who came to this country in 1908. I had assumed
              that this was common usage 100 years ago which is how I learned it. It
              also reminds me of a discussion we had on my first visit to Slovakia. We
              were sitting around the table after supper making small talk. Everyone
              was using "ano". I told them that it was not in common usage in the US.
              When they asked what we used to express the affirmative, I told them that
              we said "hejz~e".

              The Polish influence was related to me by my cousin who lived just a few
              kms away from the Polish border.

              William

              On Fri, 29 Feb 2008 19:08:49 -0000 "Martin Votruba" <votrubam@...>
              writes:
              > used "i" for "and", rather than the currently used "a".

              Yes, _i_ has been only regional for a long time, also present in East
              Slovakia. But it's not necessarily Polish influence, it's also
              standard usage in Czech, Rusyn, and other Slavic languages. It
              probably disappeared in much of Slovakia rather than being imported.
              Especially the Slovak journalists still use _i_ a lot in their writing
              although most never say it.

              > "umrel" for "zomrel" among others.

              Again, not necessarily from Polish. u- is also used in Czech,
              Russian, and some stylists have actually advocated the use of _umrel_
              as the more traditional version in Slovak. Both _umrel_ and _zomrel_
              are accepted as correct.

              Martin

              votruba "at" pitt "dot" edu




              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • William F Brna
              Martin, Thanks for the elucidation. I was referring to the fact that I learned Slovak from my parents who came to this country in 1908. I had assumed that
              Message 6 of 29 , Feb 29, 2008
              View Source
              • 0 Attachment
                Martin,

                Thanks for the elucidation. I was referring to the fact that I learned
                Slovak from my parents who came to this country in 1908. I had assumed
                that this was common usage 100 years ago which is how I learned it. It
                also reminds me of a discussion we had on my first visit to Slovakia. We
                were sitting around the table after supper making small talk. Everyone
                was using "ano". I told them that it was not in common usage in the US.
                When they asked what we used to express the affirmative, I told them that
                we said "hejz~e".

                The Polish influence was related to me by my cousin who lived just a few
                kms away from the Polish border.

                William

                On Fri, 29 Feb 2008 19:08:49 -0000 "Martin Votruba" <votrubam@...>
                writes:
                > used "i" for "and", rather than the currently used "a".

                Yes, _i_ has been only regional for a long time, also present in East
                Slovakia. But it's not necessarily Polish influence, it's also
                standard usage in Czech, Rusyn, and other Slavic languages. It
                probably disappeared in much of Slovakia rather than being imported.
                Especially the Slovak journalists still use _i_ a lot in their writing
                although most never say it.

                > "umrel" for "zomrel" among others.

                Again, not necessarily from Polish. u- is also used in Czech,
                Russian, and some stylists have actually advocated the use of _umrel_
                as the more traditional version in Slovak. Both _umrel_ and _zomrel_
                are accepted as correct.

                Martin

                votruba "at" pitt "dot" edu




                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Helen Fedor
                My family comes from SE of Kosice, i.e. not near the Polish border, but we always said . I didn t know the word until I started studying the
                Message 7 of 29 , Feb 29, 2008
                View Source
                • 0 Attachment
                  My family comes from SE of Kosice, i.e. not near the Polish border, but we always said <hej>. I didn't know the word <ano> until I started studying the standard language.

                  H



                  >>> William F Brna <wfbrna@...> 2/29/2008 2:25 PM >>>
                  Martin,

                  Thanks for the elucidation. I was referring to the fact that I learned
                  Slovak from my parents who came to this country in 1908. I had assumed
                  that this was common usage 100 years ago which is how I learned it. It
                  also reminds me of a discussion we had on my first visit to Slovakia. We
                  were sitting around the table after supper making small talk. Everyone
                  was using "ano". I told them that it was not in common usage in the US.
                  When they asked what we used to express the affirmative, I told them that
                  we said "hejz~e".

                  The Polish influence was related to me by my cousin who lived just a few
                  kms away from the Polish border.

                  William

                  On Fri, 29 Feb 2008 19:08:49 -0000 "Martin Votruba" <votrubam@...>
                  writes:
                  > used "i" for "and", rather than the currently used "a".

                  Yes, _i_ has been only regional for a long time, also present in East
                  Slovakia. But it's not necessarily Polish influence, it's also
                  standard usage in Czech, Rusyn, and other Slavic languages. It
                  probably disappeared in much of Slovakia rather than being imported.
                  Especially the Slovak journalists still use _i_ a lot in their writing
                  although most never say it.

                  > "umrel" for "zomrel" among others.

                  Again, not necessarily from Polish. u- is also used in Czech,
                  Russian, and some stylists have actually advocated the use of _umrel_
                  as the more traditional version in Slovak. Both _umrel_ and _zomrel_
                  are accepted as correct.

                  Martin

                  votruba "at" pitt "dot" edu




                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • Martin Votruba
                  ... Certainly, people often explain similarities by outside influence. That is sometimes the case (there was some Polish migration to northern Orava, for
                  Message 8 of 29 , Feb 29, 2008
                  View Source
                  • 0 Attachment
                    > The Polish influence was related to me by my cousin who
                    > lived just a few kms away from the Polish border.

                    Certainly, people often explain similarities by outside influence.
                    That is sometimes the case (there was some Polish migration to
                    northern Orava, for instance), but many of the things are
                    "commonalities," not a straightforward unidirectional external
                    influence. The local vernaculars developed similar features in
                    tandem. E.g., Moravian Czech and South-Western Slovak, East Slovak
                    and Polish, have similar features because they developed that way
                    side-by-side and together, not because one "imported" and the other
                    one "exported."

                    Such "commonalities" sometimes develop even in neighboring languages
                    that are not historically related. For instance, the Czechs,
                    Moravians, most Slovaks, and Hungarians always stress the first
                    syllable of a word although Hungarian is not related to them at all,
                    while the Slovaks' and Czechs' neighboring related languages, Polish,
                    Ukrainian, and the more distantly related German don't do it.


                    Martin

                    votruba "at" pitt "dot" edu
                  • Lil Junas
                    Same with my mother s family who came from between Presov and Kosice. They say hej. But my father s family, who came from eastern Slovakia, say ano. lil ...
                    Message 9 of 29 , Feb 29, 2008
                    View Source
                    • 0 Attachment
                      Same with my mother's family who came from between Presov and Kosice. They
                      say hej. But my father's family, who came from eastern Slovakia, say "ano."
                      lil





                      On Fri, Feb 29, 2008 at 2:51 PM, Martin Votruba <votrubam@...> wrote:

                      > > The Polish influence was related to me by my cousin who
                      > > lived just a few kms away from the Polish border.
                      >
                      > Certainly, people often explain similarities by outside influence.
                      > That is sometimes the case (there was some Polish migration to
                      > northern Orava, for instance), but many of the things are
                      > "commonalities," not a straightforward unidirectional external
                      > influence. The local vernaculars developed similar features in
                      > tandem. E.g., Moravian Czech and South-Western Slovak, East Slovak
                      > and Polish, have similar features because they developed that way
                      > side-by-side and together, not because one "imported" and the other
                      > one "exported."
                      >
                      > Such "commonalities" sometimes develop even in neighboring languages
                      > that are not historically related. For instance, the Czechs,
                      > Moravians, most Slovaks, and Hungarians always stress the first
                      > syllable of a word although Hungarian is not related to them at all,
                      > while the Slovaks' and Czechs' neighboring related languages, Polish,
                      > Ukrainian, and the more distantly related German don't do it.
                      >
                      >
                      > Martin
                      >
                      > votruba "at" pitt "dot" edu
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > Yahoo! Groups Links
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >


                      --
                      "To be nobody but myself."
                      www.ljunas.com


                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • LongJohn Wayne
                      Helen: What town or area is your family from? Chuck ... ____________________________________________________________________________________ Never miss a
                      Message 10 of 29 , Feb 29, 2008
                      View Source
                      • 0 Attachment
                        Helen:

                        What town or area is your family from?

                        Chuck

                        --- Helen Fedor <hfed@...> wrote:

                        > My family comes from SE of Kosice, i.e. not near the
                        > Polish border, but we always said <hej>. I didn't
                        > know the word <ano> until I started studying the
                        > standard language.
                        >
                        > H
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > >>> William F Brna <wfbrna@...> 2/29/2008 2:25
                        > PM >>>
                        > Martin,
                        >
                        > Thanks for the elucidation. I was referring to the
                        > fact that I learned
                        > Slovak from my parents who came to this country in
                        > 1908. I had assumed
                        > that this was common usage 100 years ago which is
                        > how I learned it. It
                        > also reminds me of a discussion we had on my first
                        > visit to Slovakia. We
                        > were sitting around the table after supper making
                        > small talk. Everyone
                        > was using "ano". I told them that it was not in
                        > common usage in the US.
                        > When they asked what we used to express the
                        > affirmative, I told them that
                        > we said "hejz~e".
                        >
                        > The Polish influence was related to me by my cousin
                        > who lived just a few
                        > kms away from the Polish border.
                        >
                        > William
                        >
                        > On Fri, 29 Feb 2008 19:08:49 -0000 "Martin Votruba"
                        > <votrubam@...>
                        > writes:
                        > > used "i" for "and", rather than the currently used
                        > "a".
                        >
                        > Yes, _i_ has been only regional for a long time,
                        > also present in East
                        > Slovakia. But it's not necessarily Polish influence,
                        > it's also
                        > standard usage in Czech, Rusyn, and other Slavic
                        > languages. It
                        > probably disappeared in much of Slovakia rather than
                        > being imported.
                        > Especially the Slovak journalists still use _i_ a
                        > lot in their writing
                        > although most never say it.
                        >
                        > > "umrel" for "zomrel" among others.
                        >
                        > Again, not necessarily from Polish. u- is also used
                        > in Czech,
                        > Russian, and some stylists have actually advocated
                        > the use of _umrel_
                        > as the more traditional version in Slovak. Both
                        > _umrel_ and _zomrel_
                        > are accepted as correct.
                        >
                        > Martin
                        >
                        > votruba "at" pitt "dot" edu
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > [Non-text portions of this message have been
                        > removed]
                        >
                        >
                        >



                        ____________________________________________________________________________________
                        Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page.
                        http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
                      • Martin Votruba
                        ... Indeed, _hej_ or _hejze_ don t actually exist in Polish or in Czech. It s a specifically Slovak word of agreement. _Ano_ was imported through the ancient
                        Message 11 of 29 , Feb 29, 2008
                        View Source
                        • 0 Attachment
                          > we always said <hej>.

                          Indeed, _hej_ or _hejze_ don't actually exist in Polish or in Czech.
                          It's a specifically Slovak word of agreement. _Ano_ was imported
                          through the ancient versions of the Old-Czech-based language of the Bible.

                          It probably says something about the human mind that "no" comes from
                          the same root in most of the related European languages -- the
                          syllable typically contains -n- -- while "yes" differs even among
                          closely related languages like Czech (ano), Slovak (traditionally:
                          hej), and Polish (tak). Perhaps consent has not been historically as
                          crucially central to human communication as denial/warning.

                          The most common Slavic word expressing agreement is _dobre_ (good,
                          fine), whose equivalents work in the other European languages, too.


                          Martin

                          votruba "at" pitt "dot" edu
                        • LongJohn Wayne
                          Martin: A friend sent this recently, so I thought I would add a post. If this bothers some, just delete it. Chuck A Girl with an Apple August
                          Message 12 of 29 , Feb 29, 2008
                          View Source
                          • 0 Attachment
                            Martin:

                            A friend sent this recently, so I thought I would add
                            a post. If this bothers some, just delete it.

                            Chuck

                            A Girl with an Apple



                            August 1942.Piotrkow,Poland. The sky was gloomy that
                            morning as we

                            waited anxiously. All the men,women and children of
                            Piotrkow's Jewish

                            ghetto had been herded into a square. Word had gotten
                            around that we

                            were being moved. My father had only recently died
                            from typhus, which

                            had run rampant through the crowded ghetto. My
                            greatest fear was that

                            our family would be separated.

                            'Whatever you do,' Isidore, my eldest brother,
                            whispered to me,'don't

                            tell them your age. Say you're sixteen'.

                            I was tall for a boy of 11, so I could pull it
                            off.That way I might be

                            deemed valuable as a worker. An SS man approached
                            me, boots clicking

                            against the cobblestones. He looked me up and
                            down,then asked my

                            age.'Sixteen,' I said. He directed me to the left,
                            where my three

                            brothers and other healthy young men already stood.

                            My mother was motioned to the right with the other
                            women, children,

                            sick and elderly people. I whispered to Isidore,
                            'Why?' He didn't

                            answer. I ran to Mama's side and said I wanted to stay
                            with her.'No,'

                            she said sternly. 'Get away. Don't be a nuisance. Go
                            with your

                            brothers.' She had never spoken so harshly before.
                            But I understood:

                            She was protecting me. She loved me so much that,
                            just this once, she

                            pretended not to. It was the last I ever saw of her.

                            My brothers and I were transported in a cattle car to
                            Germany. We

                            arrived at the Buchenwald concentration camp one night
                            weeks later and

                            were led into a crowded barrack. The next day, we were
                            issued uniforms

                            and identification numbers.

                            'Don't call me Herman anymore.' I said to my brothers.
                            'Call me 94983.'

                            I was put to work in the camp's crematorium, loa! ding
                            the dead into a

                            hand-cranked elevator. I, too,felt dead. Hardened, I
                            had become a

                            number. Soon, my brothers and I were sent to
                            Schlieben, one of

                            Buchenwald's sub-camps near Berlin. One morning I
                            thought I heard my

                            mother's voice.. Son, she said softly but clearly, I
                            am sending you an

                            angel. Then I woke up. Just a dream. A beautiful
                            dream. But in this

                            place there could be no angels. There was only work.
                            And hunger. And

                            fear.

                            A couple of days later, I was walking around the
                            camp, around the

                            barracks, near the barbed-wire fence where the guards
                            could not easily

                            see. I was alone. On the other side of the fence, I
                            spotted someone: a

                            young girl with light, almost luminous curls. She was
                            half-hidden

                            behind a birch tree. I glanced around to make sure no
                            one saw me. I

                            called to her softly in German.

                            'Do you have something eat?' She didn't understand. I
                            inched closer to

                            the fence and repeated the question in Polish. She
                            stepped forward. I

                            was thin and gaunt, with rags wrapped around my feet,
                            but the girl

                            looked unafraid. In her eyes, I saw life. She pulled
                            an apple from her

                            woolen jacket and threw it over the fence. I grabbed
                            the fruit and, as

                            I started to run away, I heard her say faintly, 'I'll
                            see you

                            tomorrow.'

                            I returned to the same spot by the fence at the same
                            time every day.

                            She was always there with something for me to eat - a
                            hunk of bread or,

                            better yet, an apple. We didn't dare speak or linger.
                            To be caught

                            would mean death for us both. I didn't know anything
                            about her just a

                            kind farm girl except that she understood Polish. What
                            was her name?

                            Why was she risking her life for me? Hope was in such
                            short supply, and

                            this girl on the other side of the fence gave me some,
                            as nourishing in

                            its way as the bread and apples.

                            Nearly seven months later, my brothers and I were cra!
                            mmed int o a

                            coal car and shipped to Theresienstadt camp in
                            Czechoslovakia.

                            'Don't return,' I told the girl that day. 'We're
                            leaving.'

                            I turned toward the barracks and didn't look back,
                            didn't even say

                            good-bye to the girl whose name I'd never learned, the
                            girl with the

                            apples.

                            We were in Theresienstadt for three months. The war
                            was winding down

                            and Allied forces were closing in, yet my fate seemed
                            sealed. On May

                            10, 1945, I was scheduled to die in the gas chamber
                            at10:00 AM.

                            In the quiet of dawn, I tried to prepare myself. So
                            many times death

                            seemed ready to claim me, but somehow I'd survived.
                            Now, it was over. I

                            thought of my parents. At least, I thought, we will be
                            reunited.

                            At8 A.M.there was a commotion. I heard shouts, and saw
                            people running

                            every which way through camp. I caught up with my
                            brothers. Russian

                            troops had liberated the camp! The gates swung open.
                            Everyone was

                            running, so I did too.

                            Amazingly, all of my brothers had survived; I'm not
                            sure how. But I

                            knew that the girl with the apples had been the key to
                            my survival. In

                            a place where evil seemed triumphant, one person's
                            goodness had saved

                            my life, had given me hope in a place where there was
                            none. My mother

                            had promised to send me an angel, and the angel had
                            come.

                            Eventually I made my way to England where I was
                            sponsored by a Jewish

                            charity, put up in a hostel with other boys who had
                            survived the

                            Holocaust and trained in electronics. Then I came to
                            America, where my

                            brother Sam had already moved.

                            I served in the U. S.Army during the Korean War, and
                            returned toNew

                            York City

                            after two years. By August 1957 I'd opened my ! own
                            elec tronics repair

                            shop. I was starting to settle in.

                            One day, my friend Sid who I knew from Englandcalled
                            me. 'I've got a

                            date. She's got a Polish friend. Let's double date.'

                            A blind date? Nah, that wasn't for me. But Sid kept
                            pestering me, and a

                            few days later we headed up to the Bronxto pick up his
                            date and her

                            friend Roma. I had to admit, for a blind date this
                            wasn't so bad. Roma

                            was a nurse at a Bronx hospital. She was kind and
                            smart. Beautiful,

                            too, with swirling brown curls and green,
                            almond-shaped eyes that

                            sparkled with life.

                            The four of us drove out to Coney Island. Roma was
                            easy to talk to,

                            easy to be with. Turned out she was wary of blind
                            dates too! We were

                            both just doing our friends a favor. We took a stroll
                            on the boardwalk,

                            enjoying the salty Atlantic breeze, and then had
                            dinner by the shore. I

                            couldn't remember having a better time.

                            We piled back into Sid's car, Roma and I sharing the
                            backseat. As

                            European Jews who had survived the war, we were aware
                            that much had

                            been left unsaid between us. She broached the subject,
                            'Where were

                            you,' she asked softly, 'during the war?'

                            'The camps,' I said, the terrible memories still
                            vivid, the irreparable

                            loss. I had tried to forget. But you can never
                            forget. She nodded. 'My

                            family was hiding on a farm in Germany, not far from
                            Berlin,' she told

                            me. 'My father knew a priest, and he got us Aryan
                            papers.' I imagined

                            how she must have suffered too, fear, a constant
                            companion. And yet

                            here we were, both survivors, in a new world.

                            'There was a camp next to the farm.' Roma continued.
                            'I saw a boy there

                            and I would throw him apples every day.'

                            What an amazing coincidence that she had helped some
                            other boy. 'What

                            did he look like? I asked.

                            He was tall. Skinny. Hungry. I must have seen him
                            every day for six

                            months.'

                            My heart was racing. I couldn't believe it. This
                            couldn't be.

                            'Did he tell you one day not to come back because he
                            was leaving

                            Schlieben?' Roma looked at me in amazement.

                            'Yes,' That was me! '

                            I was ready to burst with joy and awe, flooded with
                            emotions. I

                            couldn't believe it. My angel.

                            'I'm not letting you go.' I said to Roma. And in the
                            back of the car on

                            that blind date, I proposed to her. I didn't want to
                            wait.

                            'You're crazy!' she said. But she invited me to meet
                            her parents for

                            Shabbat dinner the following week. There was so much I
                            looked forward

                            to learning about Roma, but the most important things
                            I always knew:

                            her steadfastness, her goodness. For many months, in
                            the worst of

                            circumstances, she had come to the fence and given me
                            hope. Now that

                            I'd found her again, I could never let her go. That
                            day, she said yes.

                            And I kept my word. After nearly 50 years of
                            marriage, two children

                            and three grandchildren I have never let her go.

                            Herman Rosenblat Miami Beach,Florida



                            This is a true story and you can find out more by
                            Googling Herman Rosenblat as he was bar mitzvahed at
                            age 75. This story is being made into a movie called
                            The Fence.


                            --- William F Brna <wfbrna@...> wrote:

                            > Martin,
                            >
                            > Thanks for the elucidation. I was referring to the
                            > fact that I learned
                            > Slovak from my parents who came to this country in
                            > 1908. I had assumed
                            > that this was common usage 100 years ago which is
                            > how I learned it. It
                            > also reminds me of a discussion we had on my first
                            > visit to Slovakia. We
                            > were sitting around the table after supper making
                            > small talk. Everyone
                            > was using "ano". I told them that it was not in
                            > common usage in the US.
                            > When they asked what we used to express the
                            > affirmative, I told them that
                            > we said "hejz~e".
                            >
                            > The Polish influence was related to me by my cousin
                            > who lived just a few
                            > kms away from the Polish border.
                            >
                            > William
                            >
                            > On Fri, 29 Feb 2008 19:08:49 -0000 "Martin Votruba"
                            > <votrubam@...>
                            > writes:
                            > > used "i" for "and", rather than the currently used
                            > "a".
                            >
                            > Yes, _i_ has been only regional for a long time,
                            > also present in East
                            > Slovakia. But it's not necessarily Polish influence,
                            > it's also
                            > standard usage in Czech, Rusyn, and other Slavic
                            > languages. It
                            > probably disappeared in much of Slovakia rather than
                            > being imported.
                            > Especially the Slovak journalists still use _i_ a
                            > lot in their writing
                            > although most never say it.
                            >
                            > > "umrel" for "zomrel" among others.
                            >
                            > Again, not necessarily from Polish. u- is also used
                            > in Czech,
                            > Russian, and some stylists have actually advocated
                            > the use of _umrel_
                            > as the more traditional version in Slovak. Both
                            > _umrel_ and _zomrel_
                            > are accepted as correct.
                            >
                            > Martin
                            >
                            > votruba "at" pitt "dot" edu
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > [Non-text portions of this message have been
                            > removed]
                            >
                            >



                            ____________________________________________________________________________________
                            Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page.
                            http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
                          • Helen Fedor
                            Father = Slanske Nove Mesto Mother = Male Ozorovce H ... Helen: What town or area is your family from? Chuck ...
                            Message 13 of 29 , Feb 29, 2008
                            View Source
                            • 0 Attachment
                              Father = Slanske Nove Mesto
                              Mother = Male Ozorovce

                              H




                              >>> LongJohn Wayne <daxthewarrior@...> 2/29/2008 2:57 PM >>>
                              Helen:

                              What town or area is your family from?

                              Chuck

                              --- Helen Fedor <hfed@...> wrote:

                              > My family comes from SE of Kosice, i.e. not near the
                              > Polish border, but we always said <hej>. I didn't
                              > know the word <ano> until I started studying the
                              > standard language.
                              >
                              > H
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > >>> William F Brna <wfbrna@...> 2/29/2008 2:25
                              > PM >>>
                              > Martin,
                              >
                              > Thanks for the elucidation. I was referring to the
                              > fact that I learned
                              > Slovak from my parents who came to this country in
                              > 1908. I had assumed
                              > that this was common usage 100 years ago which is
                              > how I learned it. It
                              > also reminds me of a discussion we had on my first
                              > visit to Slovakia. We
                              > were sitting around the table after supper making
                              > small talk. Everyone
                              > was using "ano". I told them that it was not in
                              > common usage in the US.
                              > When they asked what we used to express the
                              > affirmative, I told them that
                              > we said "hejz~e".
                              >
                              > The Polish influence was related to me by my cousin
                              > who lived just a few
                              > kms away from the Polish border.
                              >
                              > William
                              >
                              > On Fri, 29 Feb 2008 19:08:49 -0000 "Martin Votruba"
                              > <votrubam@...>
                              > writes:
                              > > used "i" for "and", rather than the currently used
                              > "a".
                              >
                              > Yes, _i_ has been only regional for a long time,
                              > also present in East
                              > Slovakia. But it's not necessarily Polish influence,
                              > it's also
                              > standard usage in Czech, Rusyn, and other Slavic
                              > languages. It
                              > probably disappeared in much of Slovakia rather than
                              > being imported.
                              > Especially the Slovak journalists still use _i_ a
                              > lot in their writing
                              > although most never say it.
                              >
                              > > "umrel" for "zomrel" among others.
                              >
                              > Again, not necessarily from Polish. u- is also used
                              > in Czech,
                              > Russian, and some stylists have actually advocated
                              > the use of _umrel_
                              > as the more traditional version in Slovak. Both
                              > _umrel_ and _zomrel_
                              > are accepted as correct.
                              >
                              > Martin
                              >
                              > votruba "at" pitt "dot" edu
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > [Non-text portions of this message have been
                              > removed]
                              >
                              >
                              >



                              ____________________________________________________________________________________
                              Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page.
                              http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
                            • LongJohn Wayne
                              Helen: I need to check them on a map. My Grandfather emmigrated from Parchovany over 100 years ago. I visited last year. What beautiful country. Perhaps we
                              Message 14 of 29 , Feb 29, 2008
                              View Source
                              • 0 Attachment
                                Helen:

                                I need to check them on a map. My Grandfather
                                emmigrated from Parchovany over 100 years ago. I
                                visited last year. What beautiful country.

                                Perhaps we are related!

                                Chuck

                                --- Helen Fedor <hfed@...> wrote:

                                > Father = Slanske Nove Mesto
                                > Mother = Male Ozorovce
                                >
                                > H
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > >>> LongJohn Wayne <daxthewarrior@...>
                                > 2/29/2008 2:57 PM >>>
                                > Helen:
                                >
                                > What town or area is your family from?
                                >
                                > Chuck
                                >
                                > --- Helen Fedor <hfed@...> wrote:
                                >
                                > > My family comes from SE of Kosice, i.e. not near
                                > the
                                > > Polish border, but we always said <hej>. I didn't
                                > > know the word <ano> until I started studying the
                                > > standard language.
                                > >
                                > > H
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > > >>> William F Brna <wfbrna@...> 2/29/2008
                                > 2:25
                                > > PM >>>
                                > > Martin,
                                > >
                                > > Thanks for the elucidation. I was referring to
                                > the
                                > > fact that I learned
                                > > Slovak from my parents who came to this country in
                                > > 1908. I had assumed
                                > > that this was common usage 100 years ago which is
                                > > how I learned it. It
                                > > also reminds me of a discussion we had on my first
                                > > visit to Slovakia. We
                                > > were sitting around the table after supper making
                                > > small talk. Everyone
                                > > was using "ano". I told them that it was not in
                                > > common usage in the US.
                                > > When they asked what we used to express the
                                > > affirmative, I told them that
                                > > we said "hejz~e".
                                > >
                                > > The Polish influence was related to me by my
                                > cousin
                                > > who lived just a few
                                > > kms away from the Polish border.
                                > >
                                > > William
                                > >
                                > > On Fri, 29 Feb 2008 19:08:49 -0000 "Martin
                                > Votruba"
                                > > <votrubam@...>
                                > > writes:
                                > > > used "i" for "and", rather than the currently
                                > used
                                > > "a".
                                > >
                                > > Yes, _i_ has been only regional for a long time,
                                > > also present in East
                                > > Slovakia. But it's not necessarily Polish
                                > influence,
                                > > it's also
                                > > standard usage in Czech, Rusyn, and other Slavic
                                > > languages. It
                                > > probably disappeared in much of Slovakia rather
                                > than
                                > > being imported.
                                > > Especially the Slovak journalists still use _i_ a
                                > > lot in their writing
                                > > although most never say it.
                                > >
                                > > > "umrel" for "zomrel" among others.
                                > >
                                > > Again, not necessarily from Polish. u- is also
                                > used
                                > > in Czech,
                                > > Russian, and some stylists have actually advocated
                                > > the use of _umrel_
                                > > as the more traditional version in Slovak. Both
                                > > _umrel_ and _zomrel_
                                > > are accepted as correct.
                                > >
                                > > Martin
                                > >
                                > > votruba "at" pitt "dot" edu
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > > [Non-text portions of this message have been
                                > > removed]
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                ____________________________________________________________________________________
                                > Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page.
                                > http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
                                >
                                >



                                ____________________________________________________________________________________
                                Looking for last minute shopping deals?
                                Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping
                              • Helen Fedor
                                I remember hearing the name Parchovany at home, as the village where some family friends lived, but can t remember who it was. Who knows, we could be 32nd
                                Message 15 of 29 , Feb 29, 2008
                                View Source
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  I remember hearing the name Parchovany at home, as the village where some family friends lived, but can't remember who it was. Who knows, we could be 32nd cousins, 16 times removed!

                                  H




                                  >>> LongJohn Wayne <daxthewarrior@...> 2/29/2008 3:22 PM >>>
                                  Helen:

                                  I need to check them on a map. My Grandfather
                                  emmigrated from Parchovany over 100 years ago. I
                                  visited last year. What beautiful country.

                                  Perhaps we are related!

                                  Chuck

                                  --- Helen Fedor <hfed@...> wrote:

                                  > Father = Slanske Nove Mesto
                                  > Mother = Male Ozorovce
                                  >
                                  > H
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > >>> LongJohn Wayne <daxthewarrior@...>
                                  > 2/29/2008 2:57 PM >>>
                                  > Helen:
                                  >
                                  > What town or area is your family from?
                                  >
                                  > Chuck
                                  >
                                  > --- Helen Fedor <hfed@...> wrote:
                                  >
                                  > > My family comes from SE of Kosice, i.e. not near
                                  > the
                                  > > Polish border, but we always said <hej>. I didn't
                                  > > know the word <ano> until I started studying the
                                  > > standard language.
                                  > >
                                  > > H
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > > >>> William F Brna <wfbrna@...> 2/29/2008
                                  > 2:25
                                  > > PM >>>
                                  > > Martin,
                                  > >
                                  > > Thanks for the elucidation. I was referring to
                                  > the
                                  > > fact that I learned
                                  > > Slovak from my parents who came to this country in
                                  > > 1908. I had assumed
                                  > > that this was common usage 100 years ago which is
                                  > > how I learned it. It
                                  > > also reminds me of a discussion we had on my first
                                  > > visit to Slovakia. We
                                  > > were sitting around the table after supper making
                                  > > small talk. Everyone
                                  > > was using "ano". I told them that it was not in
                                  > > common usage in the US.
                                  > > When they asked what we used to express the
                                  > > affirmative, I told them that
                                  > > we said "hejz~e".
                                  > >
                                  > > The Polish influence was related to me by my
                                  > cousin
                                  > > who lived just a few
                                  > > kms away from the Polish border.
                                  > >
                                  > > William
                                  > >
                                  > > On Fri, 29 Feb 2008 19:08:49 -0000 "Martin
                                  > Votruba"
                                  > > <votrubam@...>
                                  > > writes:
                                  > > > used "i" for "and", rather than the currently
                                  > used
                                  > > "a".
                                  > >
                                  > > Yes, _i_ has been only regional for a long time,
                                  > > also present in East
                                  > > Slovakia. But it's not necessarily Polish
                                  > influence,
                                  > > it's also
                                  > > standard usage in Czech, Rusyn, and other Slavic
                                  > > languages. It
                                  > > probably disappeared in much of Slovakia rather
                                  > than
                                  > > being imported.
                                  > > Especially the Slovak journalists still use _i_ a
                                  > > lot in their writing
                                  > > although most never say it.
                                  > >
                                  > > > "umrel" for "zomrel" among others.
                                  > >
                                  > > Again, not necessarily from Polish. u- is also
                                  > used
                                  > > in Czech,
                                  > > Russian, and some stylists have actually advocated
                                  > > the use of _umrel_
                                  > > as the more traditional version in Slovak. Both
                                  > > _umrel_ and _zomrel_
                                  > > are accepted as correct.
                                  > >
                                  > > Martin
                                  > >
                                  > > votruba "at" pitt "dot" edu
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > > [Non-text portions of this message have been
                                  > > removed]
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  ____________________________________________________________________________________
                                  > Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page.
                                  > http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
                                  >
                                  >



                                  ____________________________________________________________________________________
                                  Looking for last minute shopping deals?
                                  Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping
                                • William F Brna
                                  Martin, Thank you so much for sharing this with us. I have relatives in Miloslavov whose family saved several Jews from the Nazis by hiding them in a double
                                  Message 16 of 29 , Feb 29, 2008
                                  View Source
                                  • 0 Attachment
                                    Martin,

                                    Thank you so much for sharing this with us. I have relatives in
                                    Miloslavov whose family saved several Jews from the Nazis by hiding them
                                    in a double walled building on their farm. Pavel Brna and two others are
                                    listed as "Righteous Gentiles" in Yad Vashem and in the Holocaust
                                    Memorial in Washington. I have spent part of my time on each of my three
                                    visits to Slovakia with Pavel's grandson and his family.

                                    William

                                    On Fri, 29 Feb 2008 12:10:45 -0800 (PST) LongJohn Wayne
                                    <daxthewarrior@...> writes:
                                    Martin:

                                    A friend sent this recently, so I thought I would add
                                    a post. If this bothers some, just delete it.

                                    Chuck

                                    A Girl with an Apple

                                    August 1942.Piotrkow,Poland. The sky was gloomy that
                                    morning as we

                                    waited anxiously. All the men,women and children of
                                    Piotrkow's Jewish

                                    ghetto had been herded into a square. Word had gotten
                                    around that we

                                    were being moved. My father had only recently died
                                    from typhus, which

                                    had run rampant through the crowded ghetto. My
                                    greatest fear was that

                                    our family would be separated.

                                    'Whatever you do,' Isidore, my eldest brother,
                                    whispered to me,'don't

                                    tell them your age. Say you're sixteen'.

                                    I was tall for a boy of 11, so I could pull it
                                    off.That way I might be

                                    deemed valuable as a worker. An SS man approached
                                    me, boots clicking

                                    against the cobblestones. He looked me up and
                                    down,then asked my

                                    age.'Sixteen,' I said. He directed me to the left,
                                    where my three

                                    brothers and other healthy young men already stood.

                                    My mother was motioned to the right with the other
                                    women, children,

                                    sick and elderly people. I whispered to Isidore,
                                    'Why?' He didn't

                                    answer. I ran to Mama's side and said I wanted to stay
                                    with her.'No,'

                                    she said sternly. 'Get away. Don't be a nuisance. Go
                                    with your

                                    brothers.' She had never spoken so harshly before.
                                    But I understood:

                                    She was protecting me. She loved me so much that,
                                    just this once, she

                                    pretended not to. It was the last I ever saw of her.

                                    My brothers and I were transported in a cattle car to
                                    Germany. We

                                    arrived at the Buchenwald concentration camp one night
                                    weeks later and

                                    were led into a crowded barrack. The next day, we were
                                    issued uniforms

                                    and identification numbers.

                                    'Don't call me Herman anymore.' I said to my brothers.
                                    'Call me 94983.'

                                    I was put to work in the camp's crematorium, loa! ding
                                    the dead into a

                                    hand-cranked elevator. I, too,felt dead. Hardened, I
                                    had become a

                                    number. Soon, my brothers and I were sent to
                                    Schlieben, one of

                                    Buchenwald's sub-camps near Berlin. One morning I
                                    thought I heard my

                                    mother's voice.. Son, she said softly but clearly, I
                                    am sending you an

                                    angel. Then I woke up. Just a dream. A beautiful
                                    dream. But in this

                                    place there could be no angels. There was only work.
                                    And hunger. And

                                    fear.

                                    A couple of days later, I was walking around the
                                    camp, around the

                                    barracks, near the barbed-wire fence where the guards
                                    could not easily

                                    see. I was alone. On the other side of the fence, I
                                    spotted someone: a

                                    young girl with light, almost luminous curls. She was
                                    half-hidden

                                    behind a birch tree. I glanced around to make sure no
                                    one saw me. I

                                    called to her softly in German.

                                    'Do you have something eat?' She didn't understand. I
                                    inched closer to

                                    the fence and repeated the question in Polish. She
                                    stepped forward. I

                                    was thin and gaunt, with rags wrapped around my feet,
                                    but the girl

                                    looked unafraid. In her eyes, I saw life. She pulled
                                    an apple from her

                                    woolen jacket and threw it over the fence. I grabbed
                                    the fruit and, as

                                    I started to run away, I heard her say faintly, 'I'll
                                    see you

                                    tomorrow.'

                                    I returned to the same spot by the fence at the same
                                    time every day.

                                    She was always there with something for me to eat - a
                                    hunk of bread or,

                                    better yet, an apple. We didn't dare speak or linger.
                                    To be caught

                                    would mean death for us both. I didn't know anything
                                    about her just a

                                    kind farm girl except that she understood Polish. What
                                    was her name?

                                    Why was she risking her life for me? Hope was in such
                                    short supply, and

                                    this girl on the other side of the fence gave me some,
                                    as nourishing in

                                    its way as the bread and apples.

                                    Nearly seven months later, my brothers and I were cra!
                                    mmed int o a

                                    coal car and shipped to Theresienstadt camp in
                                    Czechoslovakia.

                                    'Don't return,' I told the girl that day. 'We're
                                    leaving.'

                                    I turned toward the barracks and didn't look back,
                                    didn't even say

                                    good-bye to the girl whose name I'd never learned, the
                                    girl with the

                                    apples.

                                    We were in Theresienstadt for three months. The war
                                    was winding down

                                    and Allied forces were closing in, yet my fate seemed
                                    sealed. On May

                                    10, 1945, I was scheduled to die in the gas chamber
                                    at10:00 AM.

                                    In the quiet of dawn, I tried to prepare myself. So
                                    many times death

                                    seemed ready to claim me, but somehow I'd survived.
                                    Now, it was over. I

                                    thought of my parents. At least, I thought, we will be
                                    reunited.

                                    At8 A.M.there was a commotion. I heard shouts, and saw
                                    people running

                                    every which way through camp. I caught up with my
                                    brothers. Russian

                                    troops had liberated the camp! The gates swung open.
                                    Everyone was

                                    running, so I did too.

                                    Amazingly, all of my brothers had survived; I'm not
                                    sure how. But I

                                    knew that the girl with the apples had been the key to
                                    my survival. In

                                    a place where evil seemed triumphant, one person's
                                    goodness had saved

                                    my life, had given me hope in a place where there was
                                    none. My mother

                                    had promised to send me an angel, and the angel had
                                    come.

                                    Eventually I made my way to England where I was
                                    sponsored by a Jewish

                                    charity, put up in a hostel with other boys who had
                                    survived the

                                    Holocaust and trained in electronics. Then I came to
                                    America, where my

                                    brother Sam had already moved.

                                    I served in the U. S.Army during the Korean War, and
                                    returned toNew

                                    York City

                                    after two years. By August 1957 I'd opened my ! own
                                    elec tronics repair

                                    shop. I was starting to settle in.

                                    One day, my friend Sid who I knew from Englandcalled
                                    me. 'I've got a

                                    date. She's got a Polish friend. Let's double date.'

                                    A blind date? Nah, that wasn't for me. But Sid kept
                                    pestering me, and a

                                    few days later we headed up to the Bronxto pick up his
                                    date and her

                                    friend Roma. I had to admit, for a blind date this
                                    wasn't so bad. Roma

                                    was a nurse at a Bronx hospital. She was kind and
                                    smart. Beautiful,

                                    too, with swirling brown curls and green,
                                    almond-shaped eyes that

                                    sparkled with life.

                                    The four of us drove out to Coney Island. Roma was
                                    easy to talk to,

                                    easy to be with. Turned out she was wary of blind
                                    dates too! We were

                                    both just doing our friends a favor. We took a stroll
                                    on the boardwalk,

                                    enjoying the salty Atlantic breeze, and then had
                                    dinner by the shore. I

                                    couldn't remember having a better time.

                                    We piled back into Sid's car, Roma and I sharing the
                                    backseat. As

                                    European Jews who had survived the war, we were aware
                                    that much had

                                    been left unsaid between us. She broached the subject,
                                    'Where were

                                    you,' she asked softly, 'during the war?'

                                    'The camps,' I said, the terrible memories still
                                    vivid, the irreparable

                                    loss. I had tried to forget. But you can never
                                    forget. She nodded. 'My

                                    family was hiding on a farm in Germany, not far from
                                    Berlin,' she told

                                    me. 'My father knew a priest, and he got us Aryan
                                    papers.' I imagined

                                    how she must have suffered too, fear, a constant
                                    companion. And yet

                                    here we were, both survivors, in a new world.

                                    'There was a camp next to the farm.' Roma continued.
                                    'I saw a boy there

                                    and I would throw him apples every day.'

                                    What an amazing coincidence that she had helped some
                                    other boy. 'What

                                    did he look like? I asked.

                                    He was tall. Skinny. Hungry. I must have seen him
                                    every day for six

                                    months.'

                                    My heart was racing. I couldn't believe it. This
                                    couldn't be.

                                    'Did he tell you one day not to come back because he
                                    was leaving

                                    Schlieben?' Roma looked at me in amazement.

                                    'Yes,' That was me! '

                                    I was ready to burst with joy and awe, flooded with
                                    emotions. I

                                    couldn't believe it. My angel.

                                    'I'm not letting you go.' I said to Roma. And in the
                                    back of the car on

                                    that blind date, I proposed to her. I didn't want to
                                    wait.

                                    'You're crazy!' she said. But she invited me to meet
                                    her parents for

                                    Shabbat dinner the following week. There was so much I
                                    looked forward

                                    to learning about Roma, but the most important things
                                    I always knew:

                                    her steadfastness, her goodness. For many months, in
                                    the worst of

                                    circumstances, she had come to the fence and given me
                                    hope. Now that

                                    I'd found her again, I could never let her go. That
                                    day, she said yes.

                                    And I kept my word. After nearly 50 years of
                                    marriage, two children

                                    and three grandchildren I have never let her go.

                                    Herman Rosenblat Miami Beach,Florida

                                    This is a true story and you can find out more by
                                    Googling Herman Rosenblat as he was bar mitzvahed at
                                    age 75. This story is being made into a movie called
                                    The Fence.

                                    --- William F Brna <wfbrna@...> wrote:

                                    > Martin,
                                    >
                                    > Thanks for the elucidation. I was referring to the
                                    > fact that I learned
                                    > Slovak from my parents who came to this country in
                                    > 1908. I had assumed
                                    > that this was common usage 100 years ago which is
                                    > how I learned it. It
                                    > also reminds me of a discussion we had on my first
                                    > visit to Slovakia. We
                                    > were sitting around the table after supper making
                                    > small talk. Everyone
                                    > was using "ano". I told them that it was not in
                                    > common usage in the US.
                                    > When they asked what we used to express the
                                    > affirmative, I told them that
                                    > we said "hejz~e".
                                    >
                                    > The Polish influence was related to me by my cousin
                                    > who lived just a few
                                    > kms away from the Polish border.
                                    >
                                    > William
                                    >
                                    > On Fri, 29 Feb 2008 19:08:49 -0000 "Martin Votruba"
                                    > <votrubam@...>
                                    > writes:
                                    > > used "i" for "and", rather than the currently used
                                    > "a".
                                    >
                                    > Yes, _i_ has been only regional for a long time,
                                    > also present in East
                                    > Slovakia. But it's not necessarily Polish influence,
                                    > it's also
                                    > standard usage in Czech, Rusyn, and other Slavic
                                    > languages. It
                                    > probably disappeared in much of Slovakia rather than
                                    > being imported.
                                    > Especially the Slovak journalists still use _i_ a
                                    > lot in their writing
                                    > although most never say it.
                                    >
                                    > > "umrel" for "zomrel" among others.
                                    >
                                    > Again, not necessarily from Polish. u- is also used
                                    > in Czech,
                                    > Russian, and some stylists have actually advocated
                                    > the use of _umrel_
                                    > as the more traditional version in Slovak. Both
                                    > _umrel_ and _zomrel_
                                    > are accepted as correct.
                                    >
                                    > Martin
                                    >
                                    > votruba "at" pitt "dot" edu
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been
                                    > removed]
                                    >
                                    >

                                    __________________________________________________________
                                    Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page.
                                    http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs



                                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  • Rick Sonzella
                                    Thank You for posting this.. I am to young to have been involved with that terrible war.. I do not know what part my family had played during then since my
                                    Message 17 of 29 , Feb 29, 2008
                                    View Source
                                    • 0 Attachment
                                      Thank You for posting this..
                                      I am to young to have been involved with that terrible war.. I do not know what part my family had played during then since my grandparents had passed away and my family was not close with my Paternal G.p. they were from Sicily Italy, My maternal Grandfather was blind and not the most friendlist of people when I was growing up so I did not get to talk to him much. I can only wish they are were good people during that time.
                                      Thank you again
                                      Rick

                                      LongJohn Wayne <daxthewarrior@...> wrote:
                                      Martin:

                                      A friend sent this recently, so I thought I would add
                                      a post. If this bothers some, just delete it.

                                      Chuck

                                      A Girl with an Apple

                                      August 1942.Piotrkow,Poland. The sky was gloomy that
                                      morning as we

                                      waited anxiously. All the men,women and children of
                                      Piotrkow's Jewish

                                      ghetto had been herded into a square. Word had gotten
                                      around that we

                                      were being moved. My father had only recently died
                                      from typhus, which

                                      had run rampant through the crowded ghetto. My
                                      greatest fear was that

                                      our family would be separated.

                                      'Whatever you do,' Isidore, my eldest brother,
                                      whispered to me,'don't

                                      tell them your age. Say you're sixteen'.

                                      I was tall for a boy of 11, so I could pull it
                                      off.That way I might be

                                      deemed valuable as a worker. An SS man approached
                                      me, boots clicking

                                      against the cobblestones. He looked me up and
                                      down,then asked my

                                      age.'Sixteen,' I said. He directed me to the left,
                                      where my three

                                      brothers and other healthy young men already stood.

                                      My mother was motioned to the right with the other
                                      women, children,

                                      sick and elderly people. I whispered to Isidore,
                                      'Why?' He didn't

                                      answer. I ran to Mama's side and said I wanted to stay
                                      with her.'No,'

                                      she said sternly. 'Get away. Don't be a nuisance. Go
                                      with your

                                      brothers.' She had never spoken so harshly before.
                                      But I understood:

                                      She was protecting me. She loved me so much that,
                                      just this once, she

                                      pretended not to. It was the last I ever saw of her.

                                      My brothers and I were transported in a cattle car to
                                      Germany. We

                                      arrived at the Buchenwald concentration camp one night
                                      weeks later and

                                      were led into a crowded barrack. The next day, we were
                                      issued uniforms

                                      and identification numbers.

                                      'Don't call me Herman anymore.' I said to my brothers.
                                      'Call me 94983.'

                                      I was put to work in the camp's crematorium, loa! ding
                                      the dead into a

                                      hand-cranked elevator. I, too,felt dead. Hardened, I
                                      had become a

                                      number. Soon, my brothers and I were sent to
                                      Schlieben, one of

                                      Buchenwald's sub-camps near Berlin. One morning I
                                      thought I heard my

                                      mother's voice.. Son, she said softly but clearly, I
                                      am sending you an

                                      angel. Then I woke up. Just a dream. A beautiful
                                      dream. But in this

                                      place there could be no angels. There was only work.
                                      And hunger. And

                                      fear.

                                      A couple of days later, I was walking around the
                                      camp, around the

                                      barracks, near the barbed-wire fence where the guards
                                      could not easily

                                      see. I was alone. On the other side of the fence, I
                                      spotted someone: a

                                      young girl with light, almost luminous curls. She was
                                      half-hidden

                                      behind a birch tree. I glanced around to make sure no
                                      one saw me. I

                                      called to her softly in German.

                                      'Do you have something eat?' She didn't understand. I
                                      inched closer to

                                      the fence and repeated the question in Polish. She
                                      stepped forward. I

                                      was thin and gaunt, with rags wrapped around my feet,
                                      but the girl

                                      looked unafraid. In her eyes, I saw life. She pulled
                                      an apple from her

                                      woolen jacket and threw it over the fence. I grabbed
                                      the fruit and, as

                                      I started to run away, I heard her say faintly, 'I'll
                                      see you

                                      tomorrow.'

                                      I returned to the same spot by the fence at the same
                                      time every day.

                                      She was always there with something for me to eat - a
                                      hunk of bread or,

                                      better yet, an apple. We didn't dare speak or linger.
                                      To be caught

                                      would mean death for us both. I didn't know anything
                                      about her just a

                                      kind farm girl except that she understood Polish. What
                                      was her name?

                                      Why was she risking her life for me? Hope was in such
                                      short supply, and

                                      this girl on the other side of the fence gave me some,
                                      as nourishing in

                                      its way as the bread and apples.

                                      Nearly seven months later, my brothers and I were cra!
                                      mmed int o a

                                      coal car and shipped to Theresienstadt camp in
                                      Czechoslovakia.

                                      'Don't return,' I told the girl that day. 'We're
                                      leaving.'

                                      I turned toward the barracks and didn't look back,
                                      didn't even say

                                      good-bye to the girl whose name I'd never learned, the
                                      girl with the

                                      apples.

                                      We were in Theresienstadt for three months. The war
                                      was winding down

                                      and Allied forces were closing in, yet my fate seemed
                                      sealed. On May

                                      10, 1945, I was scheduled to die in the gas chamber
                                      at10:00 AM.

                                      In the quiet of dawn, I tried to prepare myself. So
                                      many times death

                                      seemed ready to claim me, but somehow I'd survived.
                                      Now, it was over. I

                                      thought of my parents. At least, I thought, we will be
                                      reunited.

                                      At8 A.M.there was a commotion. I heard shouts, and saw
                                      people running

                                      every which way through camp. I caught up with my
                                      brothers. Russian

                                      troops had liberated the camp! The gates swung open.
                                      Everyone was

                                      running, so I did too.

                                      Amazingly, all of my brothers had survived; I'm not
                                      sure how. But I

                                      knew that the girl with the apples had been the key to
                                      my survival. In

                                      a place where evil seemed triumphant, one person's
                                      goodness had saved

                                      my life, had given me hope in a place where there was
                                      none. My mother

                                      had promised to send me an angel, and the angel had
                                      come.

                                      Eventually I made my way to England where I was
                                      sponsored by a Jewish

                                      charity, put up in a hostel with other boys who had
                                      survived the

                                      Holocaust and trained in electronics. Then I came to
                                      America, where my

                                      brother Sam had already moved.

                                      I served in the U. S.Army during the Korean War, and
                                      returned toNew

                                      York City

                                      after two years. By August 1957 I'd opened my ! own
                                      elec tronics repair

                                      shop. I was starting to settle in.

                                      One day, my friend Sid who I knew from Englandcalled
                                      me. 'I've got a

                                      date. She's got a Polish friend. Let's double date.'

                                      A blind date? Nah, that wasn't for me. But Sid kept
                                      pestering me, and a

                                      few days later we headed up to the Bronxto pick up his
                                      date and her

                                      friend Roma. I had to admit, for a blind date this
                                      wasn't so bad. Roma

                                      was a nurse at a Bronx hospital. She was kind and
                                      smart. Beautiful,

                                      too, with swirling brown curls and green,
                                      almond-shaped eyes that

                                      sparkled with life.

                                      The four of us drove out to Coney Island. Roma was
                                      easy to talk to,

                                      easy to be with. Turned out she was wary of blind
                                      dates too! We were

                                      both just doing our friends a favor. We took a stroll
                                      on the boardwalk,

                                      enjoying the salty Atlantic breeze, and then had
                                      dinner by the shore. I

                                      couldn't remember having a better time.

                                      We piled back into Sid's car, Roma and I sharing the
                                      backseat. As

                                      European Jews who had survived the war, we were aware
                                      that much had

                                      been left unsaid between us. She broached the subject,
                                      'Where were

                                      you,' she asked softly, 'during the war?'

                                      'The camps,' I said, the terrible memories still
                                      vivid, the irreparable

                                      loss. I had tried to forget. But you can never
                                      forget. She nodded. 'My

                                      family was hiding on a farm in Germany, not far from
                                      Berlin,' she told

                                      me. 'My father knew a priest, and he got us Aryan
                                      papers.' I imagined

                                      how she must have suffered too, fear, a constant
                                      companion. And yet

                                      here we were, both survivors, in a new world.

                                      'There was a camp next to the farm.' Roma continued.
                                      'I saw a boy there

                                      and I would throw him apples every day.'

                                      What an amazing coincidence that she had helped some
                                      other boy. 'What

                                      did he look like? I asked.

                                      He was tall. Skinny. Hungry. I must have seen him
                                      every day for six

                                      months.'

                                      My heart was racing. I couldn't believe it. This
                                      couldn't be.

                                      'Did he tell you one day not to come back because he
                                      was leaving

                                      Schlieben?' Roma looked at me in amazement.

                                      'Yes,' That was me! '

                                      I was ready to burst with joy and awe, flooded with
                                      emotions. I

                                      couldn't believe it. My angel.

                                      'I'm not letting you go.' I said to Roma. And in the
                                      back of the car on

                                      that blind date, I proposed to her. I didn't want to
                                      wait.

                                      'You're crazy!' she said. But she invited me to meet
                                      her parents for

                                      Shabbat dinner the following week. There was so much I
                                      looked forward

                                      to learning about Roma, but the most important things
                                      I always knew:

                                      her steadfastness, her goodness. For many months, in
                                      the worst of

                                      circumstances, she had come to the fence and given me
                                      hope. Now that

                                      I'd found her again, I could never let her go. That
                                      day, she said yes.

                                      And I kept my word. After nearly 50 years of
                                      marriage, two children

                                      and three grandchildren I have never let her go.

                                      Herman Rosenblat Miami Beach,Florida

                                      This is a true story and you can find out more by
                                      Googling Herman Rosenblat as he was bar mitzvahed at
                                      age 75. This story is being made into a movie called
                                      The Fence.

                                      --- William F Brna <wfbrna@...> wrote:

                                      > Martin,
                                      >
                                      > Thanks for the elucidation. I was referring to the
                                      > fact that I learned
                                      > Slovak from my parents who came to this country in
                                      > 1908. I had assumed
                                      > that this was common usage 100 years ago which is
                                      > how I learned it. It
                                      > also reminds me of a discussion we had on my first
                                      > visit to Slovakia. We
                                      > were sitting around the table after supper making
                                      > small talk. Everyone
                                      > was using "ano". I told them that it was not in
                                      > common usage in the US.
                                      > When they asked what we used to express the
                                      > affirmative, I told them that
                                      > we said "hejz~e".
                                      >
                                      > The Polish influence was related to me by my cousin
                                      > who lived just a few
                                      > kms away from the Polish border.
                                      >
                                      > William
                                      >
                                      > On Fri, 29 Feb 2008 19:08:49 -0000 "Martin Votruba"
                                      > <votrubam@...>
                                      > writes:
                                      > > used "i" for "and", rather than the currently used
                                      > "a".
                                      >
                                      > Yes, _i_ has been only regional for a long time,
                                      > also present in East
                                      > Slovakia. But it's not necessarily Polish influence,
                                      > it's also
                                      > standard usage in Czech, Rusyn, and other Slavic
                                      > languages. It
                                      > probably disappeared in much of Slovakia rather than
                                      > being imported.
                                      > Especially the Slovak journalists still use _i_ a
                                      > lot in their writing
                                      > although most never say it.
                                      >
                                      > > "umrel" for "zomrel" among others.
                                      >
                                      > Again, not necessarily from Polish. u- is also used
                                      > in Czech,
                                      > Russian, and some stylists have actually advocated
                                      > the use of _umrel_
                                      > as the more traditional version in Slovak. Both
                                      > _umrel_ and _zomrel_
                                      > are accepted as correct.
                                      >
                                      > Martin
                                      >
                                      > votruba "at" pitt "dot" edu
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > [Non-text portions of this message have been
                                      > removed]
                                      >
                                      >

                                      __________________________________________________________
                                      Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page.
                                      http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs





                                      Rick Sonzella

                                      ---------------------------------
                                      Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.

                                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                    • LongJohn Wayne
                                      Rick: No matter what our grandparents did or did not do, we can still be good. We are not accountable for their sins [if any]. Be well, my young friend. Is
                                      Message 18 of 29 , Feb 29, 2008
                                      View Source
                                      • 0 Attachment
                                        Rick:

                                        No matter what our grandparents did or did not do, we
                                        can still be 'good.' We are not accountable for their
                                        sins [if any].

                                        Be well, my young friend. Is this not a great message
                                        board?

                                        Thanks to all for your thoughts & for your patience w/
                                        me.

                                        Chuck

                                        --- Rick Sonzella <rson6542@...> wrote:

                                        > Thank You for posting this..
                                        > I am to young to have been involved with that
                                        > terrible war.. I do not know what part my family had
                                        > played during then since my grandparents had passed
                                        > away and my family was not close with my Paternal
                                        > G.p. they were from Sicily Italy, My maternal
                                        > Grandfather was blind and not the most friendlist of
                                        > people when I was growing up so I did not get to
                                        > talk to him much. I can only wish they are were good
                                        > people during that time.
                                        > Thank you again
                                        > Rick
                                        >
                                        > LongJohn Wayne <daxthewarrior@...> wrote:
                                        > Martin:
                                        >
                                        > A friend sent this recently, so I thought I would
                                        > add
                                        > a post. If this bothers some, just delete it.
                                        >
                                        > Chuck
                                        >
                                        > A Girl with an Apple
                                        >
                                        > August 1942.Piotrkow,Poland. The sky was gloomy that
                                        > morning as we
                                        >
                                        > waited anxiously. All the men,women and children of
                                        > Piotrkow's Jewish
                                        >
                                        > ghetto had been herded into a square. Word had
                                        > gotten
                                        > around that we
                                        >
                                        > were being moved. My father had only recently died
                                        > from typhus, which
                                        >
                                        > had run rampant through the crowded ghetto. My
                                        > greatest fear was that
                                        >
                                        > our family would be separated.
                                        >
                                        > 'Whatever you do,' Isidore, my eldest brother,
                                        > whispered to me,'don't
                                        >
                                        > tell them your age. Say you're sixteen'.
                                        >
                                        > I was tall for a boy of 11, so I could pull it
                                        > off.That way I might be
                                        >
                                        > deemed valuable as a worker. An SS man approached
                                        > me, boots clicking
                                        >
                                        > against the cobblestones. He looked me up and
                                        > down,then asked my
                                        >
                                        > age.'Sixteen,' I said. He directed me to the left,
                                        > where my three
                                        >
                                        > brothers and other healthy young men already stood.
                                        >
                                        > My mother was motioned to the right with the other
                                        > women, children,
                                        >
                                        > sick and elderly people. I whispered to Isidore,
                                        > 'Why?' He didn't
                                        >
                                        > answer. I ran to Mama's side and said I wanted to
                                        > stay
                                        > with her.'No,'
                                        >
                                        > she said sternly. 'Get away. Don't be a nuisance. Go
                                        > with your
                                        >
                                        > brothers.' She had never spoken so harshly before.
                                        > But I understood:
                                        >
                                        > She was protecting me. She loved me so much that,
                                        > just this once, she
                                        >
                                        > pretended not to. It was the last I ever saw of her.
                                        >
                                        > My brothers and I were transported in a cattle car
                                        > to
                                        > Germany. We
                                        >
                                        > arrived at the Buchenwald concentration camp one
                                        > night
                                        > weeks later and
                                        >
                                        > were led into a crowded barrack. The next day, we
                                        > were
                                        > issued uniforms
                                        >
                                        > and identification numbers.
                                        >
                                        > 'Don't call me Herman anymore.' I said to my
                                        > brothers.
                                        > 'Call me 94983.'
                                        >
                                        > I was put to work in the camp's crematorium, loa!
                                        > ding
                                        > the dead into a
                                        >
                                        > hand-cranked elevator. I, too,felt dead. Hardened, I
                                        > had become a
                                        >
                                        > number. Soon, my brothers and I were sent to
                                        > Schlieben, one of
                                        >
                                        > Buchenwald's sub-camps near Berlin. One morning I
                                        > thought I heard my
                                        >
                                        > mother's voice.. Son, she said softly but clearly, I
                                        > am sending you an
                                        >
                                        > angel. Then I woke up. Just a dream. A beautiful
                                        > dream. But in this
                                        >
                                        > place there could be no angels. There was only work.
                                        > And hunger. And
                                        >
                                        > fear.
                                        >
                                        > A couple of days later, I was walking around the
                                        > camp, around the
                                        >
                                        > barracks, near the barbed-wire fence where the
                                        > guards
                                        > could not easily
                                        >
                                        > see. I was alone. On the other side of the fence, I
                                        > spotted someone: a
                                        >
                                        > young girl with light, almost luminous curls. She
                                        > was
                                        > half-hidden
                                        >
                                        > behind a birch tree. I glanced around to make sure
                                        > no
                                        > one saw me. I
                                        >
                                        > called to her softly in German.
                                        >
                                        > 'Do you have something eat?' She didn't understand.
                                        > I
                                        > inched closer to
                                        >
                                        > the fence and repeated the question in Polish. She
                                        > stepped forward. I
                                        >
                                        > was thin and gaunt, with rags wrapped around my
                                        > feet,
                                        > but the girl
                                        >
                                        > looked unafraid. In her eyes, I saw life. She pulled
                                        > an apple from her
                                        >
                                        > woolen jacket and threw it over the fence. I grabbed
                                        > the fruit and, as
                                        >
                                        > I started to run away, I heard her say faintly,
                                        > 'I'll
                                        > see you
                                        >
                                        > tomorrow.'
                                        >
                                        > I returned to the same spot by the fence at the same
                                        > time every day.
                                        >
                                        > She was always there with something for me to eat -
                                        > a
                                        > hunk of bread or,
                                        >
                                        > better yet, an apple. We didn't dare speak or
                                        > linger.
                                        > To be caught
                                        >
                                        > would mean death for us both. I didn't know anything
                                        > about her just a
                                        >
                                        > kind farm girl except that she understood Polish.
                                        > What
                                        > was her name?
                                        >
                                        > Why was she risking her life for me? Hope was in
                                        > such
                                        > short supply, and
                                        >
                                        > this girl on the other side of the fence gave me
                                        > some,
                                        > as nourishing in
                                        >
                                        > its way as the bread and apples.
                                        >
                                        > Nearly seven months later, my brothers and I were
                                        > cra!
                                        > mmed int o a
                                        >
                                        > coal car and shipped to Theresienstadt camp in
                                        > Czechoslovakia.
                                        >
                                        === message truncated ===



                                        ____________________________________________________________________________________
                                        Be a better friend, newshound, and
                                        know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ
                                      • Rick Sonzella
                                        Chuck, yes it is a great board.. I have learned so much from the great people here. sometimes I get worried about my plans for the future and going to Slovakia
                                        Message 19 of 29 , Feb 29, 2008
                                        View Source
                                        • 0 Attachment
                                          Chuck,
                                          yes it is a great board.. I have learned so much from the great people here. sometimes I get worried about my plans for the future and going to Slovakia but then I think of my friends there and how they and thier families adopted me I get a nice feeling. Everyone here has been wonderful in helping those of us with questions.
                                          Rick

                                          LongJohn Wayne <daxthewarrior@...> wrote:
                                          Rick:

                                          No matter what our grandparents did or did not do, we
                                          can still be 'good.' We are not accountable for their
                                          sins [if any].

                                          Be well, my young friend. Is this not a great message
                                          board?

                                          Thanks to all for your thoughts & for your patience w/
                                          me.

                                          Chuck

                                          --- Rick Sonzella <rson6542@...> wrote:

                                          > Thank You for posting this..
                                          > I am to young to have been involved with that
                                          > terrible war.. I do not know what part my family had
                                          > played during then since my grandparents had passed
                                          > away and my family was not close with my Paternal
                                          > G.p. they were from Sicily Italy, My maternal
                                          > Grandfather was blind and not the most friendlist of
                                          > people when I was growing up so I did not get to
                                          > talk to him much. I can only wish they are were good
                                          > people during that time.
                                          > Thank you again
                                          > Rick
                                          >
                                          > LongJohn Wayne <daxthewarrior@...> wrote:
                                          > Martin:
                                          >
                                          > A friend sent this recently, so I thought I would
                                          > add
                                          > a post. If this bothers some, just delete it.
                                          >
                                          > Chuck
                                          >
                                          > A Girl with an Apple
                                          >
                                          > August 1942.Piotrkow,Poland. The sky was gloomy that
                                          > morning as we
                                          >
                                          > waited anxiously. All the men,women and children of
                                          > Piotrkow's Jewish
                                          >
                                          > ghetto had been herded into a square. Word had
                                          > gotten
                                          > around that we
                                          >
                                          > were being moved. My father had only recently died
                                          > from typhus, which
                                          >
                                          > had run rampant through the crowded ghetto. My
                                          > greatest fear was that
                                          >
                                          > our family would be separated.
                                          >
                                          > 'Whatever you do,' Isidore, my eldest brother,
                                          > whispered to me,'don't
                                          >
                                          > tell them your age. Say you're sixteen'.
                                          >
                                          > I was tall for a boy of 11, so I could pull it
                                          > off.That way I might be
                                          >
                                          > deemed valuable as a worker. An SS man approached
                                          > me, boots clicking
                                          >
                                          > against the cobblestones. He looked me up and
                                          > down,then asked my
                                          >
                                          > age.'Sixteen,' I said. He directed me to the left,
                                          > where my three
                                          >
                                          > brothers and other healthy young men already stood.
                                          >
                                          > My mother was motioned to the right with the other
                                          > women, children,
                                          >
                                          > sick and elderly people. I whispered to Isidore,
                                          > 'Why?' He didn't
                                          >
                                          > answer. I ran to Mama's side and said I wanted to
                                          > stay
                                          > with her.'No,'
                                          >
                                          > she said sternly. 'Get away. Don't be a nuisance. Go
                                          > with your
                                          >
                                          > brothers.' She had never spoken so harshly before.
                                          > But I understood:
                                          >
                                          > She was protecting me. She loved me so much that,
                                          > just this once, she
                                          >
                                          > pretended not to. It was the last I ever saw of her.
                                          >
                                          > My brothers and I were transported in a cattle car
                                          > to
                                          > Germany. We
                                          >
                                          > arrived at the Buchenwald concentration camp one
                                          > night
                                          > weeks later and
                                          >
                                          > were led into a crowded barrack. The next day, we
                                          > were
                                          > issued uniforms
                                          >
                                          > and identification numbers.
                                          >
                                          > 'Don't call me Herman anymore.' I said to my
                                          > brothers.
                                          > 'Call me 94983.'
                                          >
                                          > I was put to work in the camp's crematorium, loa!
                                          > ding
                                          > the dead into a
                                          >
                                          > hand-cranked elevator. I, too,felt dead. Hardened, I
                                          > had become a
                                          >
                                          > number. Soon, my brothers and I were sent to
                                          > Schlieben, one of
                                          >
                                          > Buchenwald's sub-camps near Berlin. One morning I
                                          > thought I heard my
                                          >
                                          > mother's voice.. Son, she said softly but clearly, I
                                          > am sending you an
                                          >
                                          > angel. Then I woke up. Just a dream. A beautiful
                                          > dream. But in this
                                          >
                                          > place there could be no angels. There was only work.
                                          > And hunger. And
                                          >
                                          > fear.
                                          >
                                          > A couple of days later, I was walking around the
                                          > camp, around the
                                          >
                                          > barracks, near the barbed-wire fence where the
                                          > guards
                                          > could not easily
                                          >
                                          > see. I was alone. On the other side of the fence, I
                                          > spotted someone: a
                                          >
                                          > young girl with light, almost luminous curls. She
                                          > was
                                          > half-hidden
                                          >
                                          > behind a birch tree. I glanced around to make sure
                                          > no
                                          > one saw me. I
                                          >
                                          > called to her softly in German.
                                          >
                                          > 'Do you have something eat?' She didn't understand.
                                          > I
                                          > inched closer to
                                          >
                                          > the fence and repeated the question in Polish. She
                                          > stepped forward. I
                                          >
                                          > was thin and gaunt, with rags wrapped around my
                                          > feet,
                                          > but the girl
                                          >
                                          > looked unafraid. In her eyes, I saw life. She pulled
                                          > an apple from her
                                          >
                                          > woolen jacket and threw it over the fence. I grabbed
                                          > the fruit and, as
                                          >
                                          > I started to run away, I heard her say faintly,
                                          > 'I'll
                                          > see you
                                          >
                                          > tomorrow.'
                                          >
                                          > I returned to the same spot by the fence at the same
                                          > time every day.
                                          >
                                          > She was always there with something for me to eat -
                                          > a
                                          > hunk of bread or,
                                          >
                                          > better yet, an apple. We didn't dare speak or
                                          > linger.
                                          > To be caught
                                          >
                                          > would mean death for us both. I didn't know anything
                                          > about her just a
                                          >
                                          > kind farm girl except that she understood Polish.
                                          > What
                                          > was her name?
                                          >
                                          > Why was she risking her life for me? Hope was in
                                          > such
                                          > short supply, and
                                          >
                                          > this girl on the other side of the fence gave me
                                          > some,
                                          > as nourishing in
                                          >
                                          > its way as the bread and apples.
                                          >
                                          > Nearly seven months later, my brothers and I were
                                          > cra!
                                          > mmed int o a
                                          >
                                          > coal car and shipped to Theresienstadt camp in
                                          > Czechoslovakia.
                                          >
                                          === message truncated ===

                                          __________________________________________________________
                                          Be a better friend, newshound, and
                                          know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ






                                          Rick Sonzella

                                          ---------------------------------
                                          Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.

                                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                        • LongJohn Wayne
                                          Helen: I was unable to locate either on Google Maps. ... I sent you a Google link of Parchovany to you. Chuck ...
                                          Message 20 of 29 , Feb 29, 2008
                                          View Source
                                          • 0 Attachment
                                            Helen:

                                            I was unable to locate either on Google Maps.

                                            > Father = Slanske Nove Mesto
                                            > Mother = Male Ozorovce

                                            I sent you a Google link of Parchovany to you.

                                            Chuck


                                            --- Helen Fedor <hfed@...> wrote:

                                            > I remember hearing the name Parchovany at home, as
                                            > the village where some family friends lived, but
                                            > can't remember who it was. Who knows, we could be
                                            > 32nd cousins, 16 times removed!
                                            >
                                            > H
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            > >>> LongJohn Wayne <daxthewarrior@...>
                                            > 2/29/2008 3:22 PM >>>
                                            > Helen:
                                            >
                                            > I need to check them on a map. My Grandfather
                                            > emmigrated from Parchovany over 100 years ago. I
                                            > visited last year. What beautiful country.
                                            >
                                            > Perhaps we are related!
                                            >
                                            > Chuck
                                            >
                                            > --- Helen Fedor <hfed@...> wrote:
                                            >
                                            > > Father = Slanske Nove Mesto
                                            > > Mother = Male Ozorovce
                                            > >
                                            > > H
                                            > >
                                            > >
                                            > >
                                            > >
                                            > > >>> LongJohn Wayne <daxthewarrior@...>
                                            > > 2/29/2008 2:57 PM >>>
                                            > > Helen:
                                            > >
                                            > > What town or area is your family from?
                                            > >
                                            > > Chuck
                                            > >
                                            > > --- Helen Fedor <hfed@...> wrote:
                                            > >
                                            > > > My family comes from SE of Kosice, i.e. not near
                                            > > the
                                            > > > Polish border, but we always said <hej>. I
                                            > didn't
                                            > > > know the word <ano> until I started studying the
                                            > > > standard language.
                                            > > >
                                            > > > H
                                            > > >
                                            > > >
                                            > > >
                                            > > > >>> William F Brna <wfbrna@...> 2/29/2008
                                            > > 2:25
                                            > > > PM >>>
                                            > > > Martin,
                                            > > >
                                            > > > Thanks for the elucidation. I was referring to
                                            > > the
                                            > > > fact that I learned
                                            > > > Slovak from my parents who came to this country
                                            > in
                                            > > > 1908. I had assumed
                                            > > > that this was common usage 100 years ago which
                                            > is
                                            > > > how I learned it. It
                                            > > > also reminds me of a discussion we had on my
                                            > first
                                            > > > visit to Slovakia. We
                                            > > > were sitting around the table after supper
                                            > making
                                            > > > small talk. Everyone
                                            > > > was using "ano". I told them that it was not in
                                            > > > common usage in the US.
                                            > > > When they asked what we used to express the
                                            > > > affirmative, I told them that
                                            > > > we said "hejz~e".
                                            > > >
                                            > > > The Polish influence was related to me by my
                                            > > cousin
                                            > > > who lived just a few
                                            > > > kms away from the Polish border.
                                            > > >
                                            > > > William
                                            > > >
                                            > > > On Fri, 29 Feb 2008 19:08:49 -0000 "Martin
                                            > > Votruba"
                                            > > > <votrubam@...>
                                            > > > writes:
                                            > > > > used "i" for "and", rather than the currently
                                            > > used
                                            > > > "a".
                                            > > >
                                            > > > Yes, _i_ has been only regional for a long time,
                                            > > > also present in East
                                            > > > Slovakia. But it's not necessarily Polish
                                            > > influence,
                                            > > > it's also
                                            > > > standard usage in Czech, Rusyn, and other Slavic
                                            > > > languages. It
                                            > > > probably disappeared in much of Slovakia rather
                                            > > than
                                            > > > being imported.
                                            > > > Especially the Slovak journalists still use _i_
                                            > a
                                            > > > lot in their writing
                                            > > > although most never say it.
                                            > > >
                                            > > > > "umrel" for "zomrel" among others.
                                            > > >
                                            > > > Again, not necessarily from Polish. u- is also
                                            > > used
                                            > > > in Czech,
                                            > > > Russian, and some stylists have actually
                                            > advocated
                                            > > > the use of _umrel_
                                            > > > as the more traditional version in Slovak. Both
                                            > > > _umrel_ and _zomrel_
                                            > > > are accepted as correct.
                                            > > >
                                            > > > Martin
                                            > > >
                                            > > > votruba "at" pitt "dot" edu
                                            > > >
                                            > > >
                                            > > >
                                            > > >
                                            > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been
                                            > > > removed]
                                            > > >
                                            > > >
                                            > > >
                                            > >
                                            > >
                                            > >
                                            > >
                                            > >
                                            >
                                            ____________________________________________________________________________________
                                            > > Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page.
                                            > > http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
                                            > >
                                            > >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            ____________________________________________________________________________________
                                            > Looking for last minute shopping deals?
                                            > Find them fast with Yahoo! Search.
                                            >
                                            http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping
                                            >
                                            >



                                            ____________________________________________________________________________________
                                            Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page.
                                            http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
                                          • LongJohn Wayne
                                            Rick: I went last year. I am SO GLAD I did before the US$ lost its value. But if I were you, go anyway. It is an amazing country. It is the most deeply
                                            Message 21 of 29 , Feb 29, 2008
                                            View Source
                                            • 0 Attachment
                                              Rick:

                                              I went last year. I am SO GLAD I did before the US$
                                              lost its value.

                                              But if I were you, go anyway. It is an amazing
                                              country. It is the most deeply religious country in
                                              Europe, but in a good way. Most folks keep to
                                              themselves, and are very private. But they will be
                                              very helpful if approached.

                                              I didn't speak a word of Slovak & got along fine for 2
                                              weeks. By the time I got through, I knew enough to
                                              get by.

                                              The sights & the food were spectacular. What is
                                              keeping you from going? You seem hesitant?

                                              Chuck

                                              --- Rick Sonzella <rson6542@...> wrote:

                                              > Chuck,
                                              > yes it is a great board.. I have learned so much
                                              > from the great people here. sometimes I get worried
                                              > about my plans for the future and going to Slovakia
                                              > but then I think of my friends there and how they
                                              > and thier families adopted me I get a nice feeling.
                                              > Everyone here has been wonderful in helping those of
                                              > us with questions.
                                              > Rick
                                              >
                                              > LongJohn Wayne <daxthewarrior@...> wrote:
                                              > Rick:
                                              >
                                              > No matter what our grandparents did or did not do,
                                              > we
                                              > can still be 'good.' We are not accountable for
                                              > their
                                              > sins [if any].
                                              >
                                              > Be well, my young friend. Is this not a great
                                              > message
                                              > board?
                                              >
                                              > Thanks to all for your thoughts & for your patience
                                              > w/
                                              > me.
                                              >
                                              > Chuck
                                              >
                                              > --- Rick Sonzella <rson6542@...> wrote:
                                              >
                                              > > Thank You for posting this..
                                              > > I am to young to have been involved with that
                                              > > terrible war.. I do not know what part my family
                                              > had
                                              > > played during then since my grandparents had
                                              > passed
                                              > > away and my family was not close with my Paternal
                                              > > G.p. they were from Sicily Italy, My maternal
                                              > > Grandfather was blind and not the most friendlist
                                              > of
                                              > > people when I was growing up so I did not get to
                                              > > talk to him much. I can only wish they are were
                                              > good
                                              > > people during that time.
                                              > > Thank you again
                                              > > Rick
                                              > >
                                              > > LongJohn Wayne <daxthewarrior@...> wrote:
                                              > > Martin:
                                              > >
                                              > > A friend sent this recently, so I thought I would
                                              > > add
                                              > > a post. If this bothers some, just delete it.
                                              > >
                                              > > Chuck
                                              > >
                                              > > A Girl with an Apple
                                              > >
                                              > > August 1942.Piotrkow,Poland. The sky was gloomy
                                              > that
                                              > > morning as we
                                              > >
                                              > > waited anxiously. All the men,women and children
                                              > of
                                              > > Piotrkow's Jewish
                                              > >
                                              > > ghetto had been herded into a square. Word had
                                              > > gotten
                                              > > around that we
                                              > >
                                              > > were being moved. My father had only recently died
                                              > > from typhus, which
                                              > >
                                              > > had run rampant through the crowded ghetto. My
                                              > > greatest fear was that
                                              > >
                                              > > our family would be separated.
                                              > >
                                              > > 'Whatever you do,' Isidore, my eldest brother,
                                              > > whispered to me,'don't
                                              > >
                                              > > tell them your age. Say you're sixteen'.
                                              > >
                                              > > I was tall for a boy of 11, so I could pull it
                                              > > off.That way I might be
                                              > >
                                              > > deemed valuable as a worker. An SS man approached
                                              > > me, boots clicking
                                              > >
                                              > > against the cobblestones. He looked me up and
                                              > > down,then asked my
                                              > >
                                              > > age.'Sixteen,' I said. He directed me to the left,
                                              > > where my three
                                              > >
                                              > > brothers and other healthy young men already
                                              > stood.
                                              > >
                                              > > My mother was motioned to the right with the other
                                              > > women, children,
                                              > >
                                              > > sick and elderly people. I whispered to Isidore,
                                              > > 'Why?' He didn't
                                              > >
                                              > > answer. I ran to Mama's side and said I wanted to
                                              > > stay
                                              > > with her.'No,'
                                              > >
                                              > > she said sternly. 'Get away. Don't be a nuisance.
                                              > Go
                                              > > with your
                                              > >
                                              > > brothers.' She had never spoken so harshly before.
                                              >
                                              > > But I understood:
                                              > >
                                              > > She was protecting me. She loved me so much that,
                                              > > just this once, she
                                              > >
                                              > > pretended not to. It was the last I ever saw of
                                              > her.
                                              > >
                                              > > My brothers and I were transported in a cattle car
                                              > > to
                                              > > Germany. We
                                              > >
                                              > > arrived at the Buchenwald concentration camp one
                                              > > night
                                              > > weeks later and
                                              > >
                                              > > were led into a crowded barrack. The next day, we
                                              > > were
                                              > > issued uniforms
                                              > >
                                              > > and identification numbers.
                                              > >
                                              > > 'Don't call me Herman anymore.' I said to my
                                              > > brothers.
                                              > > 'Call me 94983.'
                                              > >
                                              > > I was put to work in the camp's crematorium, loa!
                                              > > ding
                                              > > the dead into a
                                              > >
                                              > > hand-cranked elevator. I, too,felt dead. Hardened,
                                              > I
                                              > > had become a
                                              > >
                                              > > number. Soon, my brothers and I were sent to
                                              > > Schlieben, one of
                                              > >
                                              > > Buchenwald's sub-camps near Berlin. One morning I
                                              > > thought I heard my
                                              > >
                                              > > mother's voice.. Son, she said softly but clearly,
                                              > I
                                              > > am sending you an
                                              > >
                                              > > angel. Then I woke up. Just a dream. A beautiful
                                              > > dream. But in this
                                              > >
                                              > > place there could be no angels. There was only
                                              > work.
                                              > > And hunger. And
                                              > >
                                              > > fear.
                                              > >
                                              > > A couple of days later, I was walking around the
                                              > > camp, around the
                                              > >
                                              > > barracks, near the barbed-wire fence where the
                                              > > guards
                                              > > could not easily
                                              > >
                                              > > see. I was alone. On the other side of the fence,
                                              > I
                                              > > spotted someone: a
                                              > >
                                              > > young girl with light, almost luminous curls. She
                                              > > was
                                              > > half-hidden
                                              > >
                                              > > behind a birch tree. I glanced around to make sure
                                              > > no
                                              > > one saw me. I
                                              > >
                                              > > called to her softly in German.
                                              > >
                                              > > 'Do you have something eat?' She didn't
                                              > understand.
                                              > > I
                                              > > inched closer to
                                              > >
                                              > > the fence and repeated the question in Polish. She
                                              > > stepped forward. I
                                              > >
                                              > > was thin and gaunt, with rags wrapped around my
                                              > > feet,
                                              > > but the girl
                                              > >
                                              >
                                              === message truncated ===



                                              ____________________________________________________________________________________
                                              Looking for last minute shopping deals?
                                              Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping
                                            • Rick Sonzella
                                              Chuck, not hesitant.. money issues,, had some family emergencies and had to assist with them. I am planning on May 2008 going for a while. My friends there are
                                              Message 22 of 29 , Feb 29, 2008
                                              View Source
                                              • 0 Attachment
                                                Chuck,
                                                not hesitant.. money issues,, had some family emergencies and had to assist with them. I am planning on May 2008 going for a while. My friends there are looking forward to me coming back. So as soon as I get some more saved I will be going. And this time I hope to be able to travel some more around the country. So far I have been to Orava, Bratislava, Tantranska Lominca (I always seem to spell it wrong) LOL Kosice, Kezmorak (sp again), Stary Smokevec, Strebske Pleso, and numerous others I forgot. LOL. Spent most of my time with both trips in the Tatry region. And yes i agree with whoever said it that they do not talk politics there.. I did the same with my friends.. It was interesting to hear thier views but I refused to get into a discussion about it.. My favorite saying is not to mix religion and politics with friendship.. will make enemies out of friends.

                                                Rick

                                                LongJohn Wayne <daxthewarrior@...> wrote:
                                                Rick:

                                                I went last year. I am SO GLAD I did before the US$
                                                lost its value.

                                                But if I were you, go anyway. It is an amazing
                                                country. It is the most deeply religious country in
                                                Europe, but in a good way. Most folks keep to
                                                themselves, and are very private. But they will be
                                                very helpful if approached.

                                                I didn't speak a word of Slovak & got along fine for 2
                                                weeks. By the time I got through, I knew enough to
                                                get by.

                                                The sights & the food were spectacular. What is
                                                keeping you from going? You seem hesitant?

                                                Chuck

                                                --- Rick Sonzella <rson6542@...> wrote:

                                                > Chuck,
                                                > yes it is a great board.. I have learned so much
                                                > from the great people here. sometimes I get worried
                                                > about my plans for the future and going to Slovakia
                                                > but then I think of my friends there and how they
                                                > and thier families adopted me I get a nice feeling.
                                                > Everyone here has been wonderful in helping those of
                                                > us with questions.
                                                > Rick
                                                >
                                                > LongJohn Wayne <daxthewarrior@...> wrote:
                                                > Rick:
                                                >
                                                > No matter what our grandparents did or did not do,
                                                > we
                                                > can still be 'good.' We are not accountable for
                                                > their
                                                > sins [if any].
                                                >
                                                > Be well, my young friend. Is this not a great
                                                > message
                                                > board?
                                                >
                                                > Thanks to all for your thoughts & for your patience
                                                > w/
                                                > me.
                                                >
                                                > Chuck
                                                >
                                                > --- Rick Sonzella <rson6542@...> wrote:
                                                >
                                                > > Thank You for posting this..
                                                > > I am to young to have been involved with that
                                                > > terrible war.. I do not know what part my family
                                                > had
                                                > > played during then since my grandparents had
                                                > passed
                                                > > away and my family was not close with my Paternal
                                                > > G.p. they were from Sicily Italy, My maternal
                                                > > Grandfather was blind and not the most friendlist
                                                > of
                                                > > people when I was growing up so I did not get to
                                                > > talk to him much. I can only wish they are were
                                                > good
                                                > > people during that time.
                                                > > Thank you again
                                                > > Rick
                                                > >
                                                > > LongJohn Wayne <daxthewarrior@...> wrote:
                                                > > Martin:
                                                > >
                                                > > A friend sent this recently, so I thought I would
                                                > > add
                                                > > a post. If this bothers some, just delete it.
                                                > >
                                                > > Chuck
                                                > >
                                                > > A Girl with an Apple
                                                > >
                                                > > August 1942.Piotrkow,Poland. The sky was gloomy
                                                > that
                                                > > morning as we
                                                > >
                                                > > waited anxiously. All the men,women and children
                                                > of
                                                > > Piotrkow's Jewish
                                                > >
                                                > > ghetto had been herded into a square. Word had
                                                > > gotten
                                                > > around that we
                                                > >
                                                > > were being moved. My father had only recently died
                                                > > from typhus, which
                                                > >
                                                > > had run rampant through the crowded ghetto. My
                                                > > greatest fear was that
                                                > >
                                                > > our family would be separated.
                                                > >
                                                > > 'Whatever you do,' Isidore, my eldest brother,
                                                > > whispered to me,'don't
                                                > >
                                                > > tell them your age. Say you're sixteen'.
                                                > >
                                                > > I was tall for a boy of 11, so I could pull it
                                                > > off.That way I might be
                                                > >
                                                > > deemed valuable as a worker. An SS man approached
                                                > > me, boots clicking
                                                > >
                                                > > against the cobblestones. He looked me up and
                                                > > down,then asked my
                                                > >
                                                > > age.'Sixteen,' I said. He directed me to the left,
                                                > > where my three
                                                > >
                                                > > brothers and other healthy young men already
                                                > stood.
                                                > >
                                                > > My mother was motioned to the right with the other
                                                > > women, children,
                                                > >
                                                > > sick and elderly people. I whispered to Isidore,
                                                > > 'Why?' He didn't
                                                > >
                                                > > answer. I ran to Mama's side and said I wanted to
                                                > > stay
                                                > > with her.'No,'
                                                > >
                                                > > she said sternly. 'Get away. Don't be a nuisance.
                                                > Go
                                                > > with your
                                                > >
                                                > > brothers.' She had never spoken so harshly before.
                                                >
                                                > > But I understood:
                                                > >
                                                > > She was protecting me. She loved me so much that,
                                                > > just this once, she
                                                > >
                                                > > pretended not to. It was the last I ever saw of
                                                > her.
                                                > >
                                                > > My brothers and I were transported in a cattle car
                                                > > to
                                                > > Germany. We
                                                > >
                                                > > arrived at the Buchenwald concentration camp one
                                                > > night
                                                > > weeks later and
                                                > >
                                                > > were led into a crowded barrack. The next day, we
                                                > > were
                                                > > issued uniforms
                                                > >
                                                > > and identification numbers.
                                                > >
                                                > > 'Don't call me Herman anymore.' I said to my
                                                > > brothers.
                                                > > 'Call me 94983.'
                                                > >
                                                > > I was put to work in the camp's crematorium, loa!
                                                > > ding
                                                > > the dead into a
                                                > >
                                                > > hand-cranked elevator. I, too,felt dead. Hardened,
                                                > I
                                                > > had become a
                                                > >
                                                > > number. Soon, my brothers and I were sent to
                                                > > Schlieben, one of
                                                > >
                                                > > Buchenwald's sub-camps near Berlin. One morning I
                                                > > thought I heard my
                                                > >
                                                > > mother's voice.. Son, she said softly but clearly,
                                                > I
                                                > > am sending you an
                                                > >
                                                > > angel. Then I woke up. Just a dream. A beautiful
                                                > > dream. But in this
                                                > >
                                                > > place there could be no angels. There was only
                                                > work.
                                                > > And hunger. And
                                                > >
                                                > > fear.
                                                > >
                                                > > A couple of days later, I was walking around the
                                                > > camp, around the
                                                > >
                                                > > barracks, near the barbed-wire fence where the
                                                > > guards
                                                > > could not easily
                                                > >
                                                > > see. I was alone. On the other side of the fence,
                                                > I
                                                > > spotted someone: a
                                                > >
                                                > > young girl with light, almost luminous curls. She
                                                > > was
                                                > > half-hidden
                                                > >
                                                > > behind a birch tree. I glanced around to make sure
                                                > > no
                                                > > one saw me. I
                                                > >
                                                > > called to her softly in German.
                                                > >
                                                > > 'Do you have something eat?' She didn't
                                                > understand.
                                                > > I
                                                > > inched closer to
                                                > >
                                                > > the fence and repeated the question in Polish. She
                                                > > stepped forward. I
                                                > >
                                                > > was thin and gaunt, with rags wrapped around my
                                                > > feet,
                                                > > but the girl
                                                > >
                                                >
                                                === message truncated ===

                                                __________________________________________________________
                                                Looking for last minute shopping deals?
                                                Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping





                                                Rick Sonzella

                                                ---------------------------------
                                                Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.

                                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                              • Martin Votruba
                                                ... That is not borne out by comparative surveys. On a 4-tier scale, Slovakia is in the second tier in religiosity: less religious than first-tier countries
                                                Message 23 of 29 , Feb 29, 2008
                                                View Source
                                                • 0 Attachment
                                                  > It is the most deeply religious country in Europe

                                                  That is not borne out by comparative surveys. On a 4-tier scale,
                                                  Slovakia is in the "second tier" in religiosity: less religious than
                                                  first-tier countries that include (alphabetical order) Austria,
                                                  Croatia, Ireland, Italy, Poland, Portugal, Switzerland, and others.

                                                  Slovakia shares the second tier with Finland, Norway, Iceland (closest
                                                  to Slovakia, both at the "more religious end" in this tier), Latvia,
                                                  Spain, and others.

                                                  The third tier includes, e.g. Britain and Germany. The four least
                                                  religious countries in Europe are the Czech R., Estonia, France, and
                                                  the Netherlands.


                                                  Martin

                                                  votruba "at" pitt "dot" edu
                                                • vchromoho
                                                  ... Bible. ... Rusyns are all over the map with their yes : in Slovakia, they generally say hej but some say je (literally, it is ); in Poland, the Lemko
                                                  Message 24 of 29 , Feb 29, 2008
                                                  View Source
                                                  • 0 Attachment
                                                    --- In Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com, "Martin Votruba" <votrubam@...>
                                                    wrote:
                                                    >
                                                    > > we always said <hej>.
                                                    >
                                                    > Indeed, _hej_ or _hejze_ don't actually exist in Polish or in Czech.
                                                    > It's a specifically Slovak word of agreement. _Ano_ was imported
                                                    > through the ancient versions of the Old-Czech-based language of the
                                                    Bible.
                                                    >

                                                    Rusyns are all over the map with their "yes": in Slovakia, they
                                                    generally say "hej" but some say "je" (literally, "it is"); in Poland,
                                                    the Lemko Rusyns usually say "tak" like in Polish and Ukrainian.

                                                    In Ukraine's Zakarpatska oblast, the native Rusyn dialects mostly
                                                    use "ajno" (looks kind of like Czech!), although a few western-area
                                                    villages say "hej" and the easterns say "tak", although "tak" seems to
                                                    be taking over the whole territory somewhat due to the influence of
                                                    standard Ukrainian. And then of course in Zakarpattia you also
                                                    hear "da" from the middle-aged generation who were more influenced by,
                                                    and even frequently married, Russians who came to Zakarpattia in large
                                                    numbers after World War II when it was annexed by the Soviet Union.
                                                  • Matchett
                                                    Thanks for submitting this. I just finished reading Cry Little Girl , a Tale of the Survival of a Family in Slovakia by Aliza Barak- Ressler. It starts in
                                                    Message 25 of 29 , Mar 1, 2008
                                                    View Source
                                                    • 0 Attachment
                                                      Thanks for submitting this. I just finished reading "Cry Little
                                                      Girl", a Tale of the Survival of a Family in Slovakia by Aliza Barak-
                                                      Ressler.

                                                      It starts in Michalovce where there was a huge population of Jews.
                                                      The family escapes being sent to concentration camps many times, hides
                                                      in the woods in the winter, finds pits where wine barrels where stored
                                                      many years earlier and live there for months, receiving help from a
                                                      good Slovak family and the priest in Jarok (near Nitra).

                                                      Very worth reading. Julia Matchett


                                                      On Feb 29, 2008, at 3:10 PM, LongJohn Wayne wrote:
                                                      >
                                                      > A friend sent this recently, so I thought I would add
                                                      > a post. If this bothers some, just delete it.
                                                      >
                                                      > Chuck
                                                      >
                                                      > A Girl with an Apple
                                                      >



                                                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                    • LongJohn Wayne
                                                      Martin: I stand corrected. It IS, however, the most religious country that I have visited. Please forgive. Thank you sir, may I have another. ;) Chuck ...
                                                      Message 26 of 29 , Mar 1, 2008
                                                      View Source
                                                      • 0 Attachment
                                                        Martin:

                                                        I stand corrected.

                                                        It IS, however, the most religious country that I have
                                                        visited. Please forgive.

                                                        Thank you sir, may I have another.

                                                        ;)

                                                        Chuck

                                                        --- Martin Votruba <votrubam@...> wrote:

                                                        > > It is the most deeply religious country in Europe
                                                        >
                                                        > That is not borne out by comparative surveys. On a
                                                        > 4-tier scale,
                                                        > Slovakia is in the "second tier" in religiosity:
                                                        > less religious than
                                                        > first-tier countries that include (alphabetical
                                                        > order) Austria,
                                                        > Croatia, Ireland, Italy, Poland, Portugal,
                                                        > Switzerland, and others.
                                                        >
                                                        > Slovakia shares the second tier with Finland,
                                                        > Norway, Iceland (closest
                                                        > to Slovakia, both at the "more religious end" in
                                                        > this tier), Latvia,
                                                        > Spain, and others.
                                                        >
                                                        > The third tier includes, e.g. Britain and Germany.
                                                        > The four least
                                                        > religious countries in Europe are the Czech R.,
                                                        > Estonia, France, and
                                                        > the Netherlands.
                                                        >
                                                        >
                                                        > Martin
                                                        >
                                                        > votruba "at" pitt "dot" edu
                                                        >
                                                        >
                                                        >



                                                        ____________________________________________________________________________________
                                                        Looking for last minute shopping deals?
                                                        Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping
                                                      • J. Edward Polko
                                                        Hi Folks, Aside from the fact that ano and no mostly mean the same thing. Also the most important word that anyone studying Slovak must know when going to
                                                        Message 27 of 29 , Mar 1, 2008
                                                        View Source
                                                        • 0 Attachment
                                                          Hi Folks,

                                                          Aside from the fact that "ano and no" mostly mean the same thing. Also the
                                                          most important word that anyone studying Slovak must know when going to
                                                          Slovakia is "Zackod(spelling) " or
                                                          "Hayzel (spelling)" which is a coloquialism of zachod. :It is one of the
                                                          most important phrases over there for the new to the Slovak language. I was
                                                          in a most embarassing situation bcause I had always thought that I was
                                                          sufficiently fluent in the language. it means where is the washroom?

                                                          regards, to everyone,

                                                          John e, Polko
                                                          -----Original Message-----
                                                          From: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com]On
                                                          Behalf Of vchromoho
                                                          Sent: March 1, 2008 2:05 AM
                                                          To: Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com
                                                          Subject: [Slovak-World] Re: ako financ kozu


                                                          --- In Slovak-World@yahoogroups.com, "Martin Votruba" <votrubam@...>
                                                          wrote:
                                                          >
                                                          > > we always said <hej>.
                                                          >
                                                          > Indeed, _hej_ or _hejze_ don't actually exist in Polish or in Czech.
                                                          > It's a specifically Slovak word of agreement. _Ano_ was imported
                                                          > through the ancient versions of the Old-Czech-based language of the
                                                          Bible.
                                                          >

                                                          Rusyns are all over the map with their "yes": in Slovakia, they
                                                          generally say "hej" but some say "je" (literally, "it is"); in Poland,
                                                          the Lemko Rusyns usually say "tak" like in Polish and Ukrainian.

                                                          In Ukraine's Zakarpatska oblast, the native Rusyn dialects mostly
                                                          use "ajno" (looks kind of like Czech!), although a few western-area
                                                          villages say "hej" and the easterns say "tak", although "tak" seems to
                                                          be taking over the whole territory somewhat due to the influence of
                                                          standard Ukrainian. And then of course in Zakarpattia you also
                                                          hear "da" from the middle-aged generation who were more influenced by,
                                                          and even frequently married, Russians who came to Zakarpattia in large
                                                          numbers after World War II when it was annexed by the Soviet Union.






                                                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                        • Martin Votruba
                                                          ... Thanks, Rich. A good example to have that underscores the instability of the words of consent. ... Interesting. It need not be Czech if they use, or
                                                          Message 28 of 29 , Mar 1, 2008
                                                          View Source
                                                          • 0 Attachment
                                                            > Rusyns are all over the map with their "yes"

                                                            Thanks, Rich. A good example to have that underscores the
                                                            "instability" of the words of consent.

                                                            > In Ukraine's Zakarpatska oblast, the native Rusyn dialects mostly
                                                            > use "ajno" (looks kind of like Czech!)

                                                            Interesting. It need not be Czech if they use, or used to use the
                                                            word _aj_ in the sense of "and" or "also." The Czech _ano_ came about
                                                            as a fusion of _a_ (and) + _no_ (polyfunctional). If _aj_ has that
                                                            meaning in Zakarpatska, it would be parallel Rusyn development, not an
                                                            adoption of a foreign word.

                                                            Regardless, there would have to be many Rusyn words with [aj] where
                                                            Czech has a short [a] (or many Rusyn words with [aj] where Slovak has
                                                            a long [a']) for it to be from Czech (possibly via Slovak) rather than
                                                            "native." I'd be interested to know if any of that is the case.


                                                            Martin

                                                            votruba "at" pitt "dot" edu
                                                          • Helen Fedor
                                                            Chuck, If you zoom out one notch, Male Ozorovce SE of Parchovany, the 2nd village SE of Secovce. If you keep going to the SE, you ll see Slanske Nove Mesto,
                                                            Message 29 of 29 , Mar 3, 2008
                                                            View Source
                                                            • 0 Attachment
                                                              Chuck,
                                                              If you zoom out one notch, Male Ozorovce SE of Parchovany, the 2nd village SE of Secovce. If you keep going to the SE, you'll see Slanske Nove Mesto, the 3rd village SE of Male Ozorovce.

                                                              H



                                                              >>> LongJohn Wayne <daxthewarrior@...> 2/29/2008 5:34:10 PM >>>
                                                              Helen:

                                                              I was unable to locate either on Google Maps.

                                                              > Father = Slanske Nove Mesto
                                                              > Mother = Male Ozorovce

                                                              I sent you a Google link of Parchovany to you.

                                                              Chuck


                                                              --- Helen Fedor <hfed@...> wrote:

                                                              > I remember hearing the name Parchovany at home, as
                                                              > the village where some family friends lived, but
                                                              > can't remember who it was. Who knows, we could be
                                                              > 32nd cousins, 16 times removed!
                                                              >
                                                              > H
                                                              >
                                                              >
                                                              >
                                                              >
                                                              > >>> LongJohn Wayne <daxthewarrior@...>
                                                              > 2/29/2008 3:22 PM >>>
                                                              > Helen:
                                                              >
                                                              > I need to check them on a map. My Grandfather
                                                              > emmigrated from Parchovany over 100 years ago. I
                                                              > visited last year. What beautiful country.
                                                              >
                                                              > Perhaps we are related!
                                                              >
                                                              > Chuck
                                                              >
                                                              > --- Helen Fedor <hfed@...> wrote:
                                                              >
                                                              > > Father = Slanske Nove Mesto
                                                              > > Mother = Male Ozorovce
                                                              > >
                                                              > > H
                                                              > >
                                                              > >
                                                              > >
                                                              > >
                                                              > > >>> LongJohn Wayne <daxthewarrior@...>
                                                              > > 2/29/2008 2:57 PM >>>
                                                              > > Helen:
                                                              > >
                                                              > > What town or area is your family from?
                                                              > >
                                                              > > Chuck
                                                              > >
                                                              > > --- Helen Fedor <hfed@...> wrote:
                                                              > >
                                                              > > > My family comes from SE of Kosice, i.e. not near
                                                              > > the
                                                              > > > Polish border, but we always said <hej>. I
                                                              > didn't
                                                              > > > know the word <ano> until I started studying the
                                                              > > > standard language.
                                                              > > >
                                                              > > > H
                                                              > > >
                                                              > > >
                                                              > > >
                                                              > > > >>> William F Brna <wfbrna@...> 2/29/2008
                                                              > > 2:25
                                                              > > > PM >>>
                                                              > > > Martin,
                                                              > > >
                                                              > > > Thanks for the elucidation. I was referring to
                                                              > > the
                                                              > > > fact that I learned
                                                              > > > Slovak from my parents who came to this country
                                                              > in
                                                              > > > 1908. I had assumed
                                                              > > > that this was common usage 100 years ago which
                                                              > is
                                                              > > > how I learned it. It
                                                              > > > also reminds me of a discussion we had on my
                                                              > first
                                                              > > > visit to Slovakia. We
                                                              > > > were sitting around the table after supper
                                                              > making
                                                              > > > small talk. Everyone
                                                              > > > was using "ano". I told them that it was not in
                                                              > > > common usage in the US.
                                                              > > > When they asked what we used to express the
                                                              > > > affirmative, I told them that
                                                              > > > we said "hejz~e".
                                                              > > >
                                                              > > > The Polish influence was related to me by my
                                                              > > cousin
                                                              > > > who lived just a few
                                                              > > > kms away from the Polish border.
                                                              > > >
                                                              > > > William
                                                              > > >
                                                              > > > On Fri, 29 Feb 2008 19:08:49 -0000 "Martin
                                                              > > Votruba"
                                                              > > > <votrubam@...>
                                                              > > > writes:
                                                              > > > > used "i" for "and", rather than the currently
                                                              > > used
                                                              > > > "a".
                                                              > > >
                                                              > > > Yes, _i_ has been only regional for a long time,
                                                              > > > also present in East
                                                              > > > Slovakia. But it's not necessarily Polish
                                                              > > influence,
                                                              > > > it's also
                                                              > > > standard usage in Czech, Rusyn, and other Slavic
                                                              > > > languages. It
                                                              > > > probably disappeared in much of Slovakia rather
                                                              > > than
                                                              > > > being imported.
                                                              > > > Especially the Slovak journalists still use _i_
                                                              > a
                                                              > > > lot in their writing
                                                              > > > although most never say it.
                                                              > > >
                                                              > > > > "umrel" for "zomrel" among others.
                                                              > > >
                                                              > > > Again, not necessarily from Polish. u- is also
                                                              > > used
                                                              > > > in Czech,
                                                              > > > Russian, and some stylists have actually
                                                              > advocated
                                                              > > > the use of _umrel_
                                                              > > > as the more traditional version in Slovak. Both
                                                              > > > _umrel_ and _zomrel_
                                                              > > > are accepted as correct.
                                                              > > >
                                                              > > > Martin
                                                              > > >
                                                              > > > votruba "at" pitt "dot" edu
                                                              > > >
                                                              > > >
                                                              > > >
                                                              > > >
                                                              > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been
                                                              > > > removed]
                                                              > > >
                                                              > > >
                                                              > > >
                                                              > >
                                                              > >
                                                              > >
                                                              > >
                                                              > >
                                                              >
                                                              ____________________________________________________________________________________
                                                              > > Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page.
                                                              > > http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
                                                              > >
                                                              > >
                                                              >
                                                              >
                                                              >
                                                              >
                                                              >
                                                              ____________________________________________________________________________________
                                                              > Looking for last minute shopping deals?
                                                              > Find them fast with Yahoo! Search.
                                                              >
                                                              http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping
                                                              >
                                                              >



                                                              ____________________________________________________________________________________
                                                              Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page.
                                                              http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
                                                            Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.