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Re: [Slovak-World] Re: serfdom: Bohemian vs Slovak

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  • LongJohn Wayne
    Thank you, Martin. ... http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Slovak-World/message/19280 ...
    Message 1 of 4 , Jan 20, 2008
      Thank you, Martin.

      --- Martin Votruba <votrubam@...> wrote:

      > > Morfologia Slovenskeho Jazyka
      > That's still the most comprehensive source. You'll
      > find an instance
      > or two where they say something is/isn't common
      > that's not quite the
      > case any more, but very rarely.
      > > serfs (but serf and peasant are different?)
      > Not really. It's a problem with writing about it in
      > English (Spiesz
      > is a translation, of course). The Slovak word for
      > "serf" (nevolnik)
      > tends to be used about foreign countries, especially
      > Russia, and if it
      > is used about the Kingdom, it does not refer to
      > quite the same
      > (in)human conditions as in Russia or Britain,
      > meaning the Slovak
      > "serfs" had their own farms, could sell/buy their
      > land, produce,
      > livestock, many villages had their own mayors,
      > councils, etc. Slovak
      > sources typically say "subject" (poddany -- unlike
      > in British English,
      > this is usually understood as excluding the
      > noblemen, burghers, and
      > clergy and is seen more as a person's relationship
      > to "his/her"
      > nobleman, not so much to the king), or "peasant"
      > (sedliak -- although,
      > of course, there were the zeman "peasants"/farmers
      > who were not
      > "subjects/poddani"), and village craftsmen were also
      > "subjects/poddani."
      > > anything in Hungary except (in passing)
      > > some political differences. (Likewise, it does
      > not much discuss the
      > > situation in Austria; it's really focussed on
      > Bohemia, Moravia,
      > > occasionally Silesia.)
      > That's normal. I remember someone getting upset
      > here a while back
      > that Spiesz didn't talk about other countries as
      > much as the person
      > wished. Few people would be able to make sense of a
      > book that would
      > try to discuss hundreds of years of "parallel
      > histories" of all of
      > Central Europe, and I'm not sure there's anyone able
      > to write it (not
      > to say in a meaningful manner). All we're left with
      > is reading about
      > the individual smaller regions and allow it to gel
      > together in our own
      > minds somehow.
      > > Theresa's realm." So can I assume that what I
      > read in Wright about
      > > serfs (but serf and peasant are different?)
      > applies to Upper
      > > Hungary? and the reforms of M.T. and her son
      > Joseph in Bohemia/
      > > Moravia also applied to Hungary?
      > No, because there was a difference between, on the
      > one hand, the
      > Habsburgs' intent, and on the other hand the success
      > or failure of its
      > execution in various regions of their monarchy, aw
      > well as other
      > differences caused by the different starting points
      > (legislation,
      > etc.) of each of their monarchy's administrative
      > units. Scroll down
      > to the second comment:
      > There are no neat comparative studies of the
      > monarchy's individual
      > regions. Most historians are quite happy when they
      > manage to figure
      > out and remember how their topic worked or didn't in
      > "their" region.
      > For instance, there are tons of histories "of the
      > Habsburg monarchy"
      > in English (and German) that actually deal with only
      > Austria and whose
      > authors give no indication that they have any clue
      > about the shape of
      > their topics in other parts of the same monarchy.
      > Whatever policy the
      > Habsburgs invented in Vienna, it did not give the
      > same results across
      > their lands at the same time.
      > Martin
      > votruba "at" pitt "dot" edu

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