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Ch.12

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  • Helen Fedor
    I just came across this discussion list (in Slovak) about Slovakia and WWII: . From the little bit I read, the discussion was
    Message 1 of 4 , Dec 5, 2007
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      I just came across this discussion list (in Slovak) about Slovakia and WWII:
      <http://kantina.druhasvetova.sk/>. From the little bit I read, the discussion was sane, civilized (no name calling), educated, and informative. I'll be going back there to read more about the time period covered in the chapter we're reading this week.

      On p.215, Spiesz talks about the actions of the FS (the "assault troops" of the German Party) "provoking a Slovak antipathy to Germans that had not existed in Slovakia prior to 1938." There hasn't been that much about the Germans lately. Before 1938, did the Slovaks and Germans interact much or did they primarily lead parallel lives?

      Also, from Spiesz's writings, it sounds like the two groups of Germans--the Karpatendeutch and the Bratislava Germans--were two very different communities. I've heard from a few of our older local Slovaks here that in the old days, people in Bratislava had a very distinct society, that the Slovaks, Hungarians, and Germans living there by and large got along very well and had a very strong regional loyalty. Was any one ethnic group dominant there or did that change throughout history? When did the Germans settle there in large numbers?

      H
    • Martin Votruba
      ... Yes, similar to Slovaks, Hungarians, and the others. People s cultures differed by region more than today. ... A well-ingrained Bratislava urban legend.
      Message 2 of 4 , Dec 5, 2007
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        > the Karpatendeutch and the Bratislava Germans--were two
        > very different communities.

        Yes, similar to Slovaks, Hungarians, and the others. People's
        cultures differed by region more than today.


        > that in the old days, people in Bratislava had a very
        > distinct society, that the Slovaks, Hungarians, and Germans
        > living there by and large got along very well

        A well-ingrained Bratislava urban legend. On the one hand, there
        wasn't much interpersonal ethnic animosity anywhere in Slovakia, on
        the other hand, Hungarianization operated everywhere, especially in
        urban areas. The Germans were switching their identity to Hungarian
        faster than the Slovaks. Their activists say that were it not for
        1918, they would have disappeared within about two generations.


        BRATISLAVA: (In 1880 and 1910: Pres~porok/Pressburg/Pozsony)
        SK=Slovak, D=German, H=Hungarian/Magyar, *= includes Czechs

        --------- 1880 ---- 1910 ---- 1921 ---- 1930 ----- 1961
        SK(CZ) - 7,537 -- 12,915 -- 37,038* - 60,813* - 230,266
        D ----- 31,404 -- 32,790 -- 25,837 -- 32,801 ---- trace
        H ------ 8,977 -- 31,705 -- 20,731 -- 18,890 ---- 8,314
        Jewish ---- NA ------ NA --- 3,758 --- 4,747 ------- NA
        other ----- 88 ----- 813 -- 10,852 --- 6,593 ---- 3,216


        Martin

        votruba "at" pitt "dot" edu
      • Helen Fedor
        Did the two German groups come from different regions in Germany? H ... Yes, similar to Slovaks, Hungarians, and the others. People s cultures differed by
        Message 3 of 4 , Dec 5, 2007
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          Did the two German groups come from different regions in Germany?

          H



          >>> "Martin Votruba" <votrubam@...> 12/5/2007 12:57 PM >>>
          > the Karpatendeutch and the Bratislava Germans--were two
          > very different communities.

          Yes, similar to Slovaks, Hungarians, and the others. People's
          cultures differed by region more than today.


          > that in the old days, people in Bratislava had a very
          > distinct society, that the Slovaks, Hungarians, and Germans
          > living there by and large got along very well

          A well-ingrained Bratislava urban legend. On the one hand, there
          wasn't much interpersonal ethnic animosity anywhere in Slovakia, on
          the other hand, Hungarianization operated everywhere, especially in
          urban areas. The Germans were switching their identity to Hungarian
          faster than the Slovaks. Their activists say that were it not for
          1918, they would have disappeared within about two generations.


          BRATISLAVA: (In 1880 and 1910: Pres~porok/Pressburg/Pozsony)
          SK=Slovak, D=German, H=Hungarian/Magyar, *= includes Czechs

          --------- 1880 ---- 1910 ---- 1921 ---- 1930 ----- 1961
          SK(CZ) - 7,537 -- 12,915 -- 37,038* - 60,813* - 230,266
          D ----- 31,404 -- 32,790 -- 25,837 -- 32,801 ---- trace
          H ------ 8,977 -- 31,705 -- 20,731 -- 18,890 ---- 8,314
          Jewish ---- NA ------ NA --- 3,758 --- 4,747 ------- NA
          other ----- 88 ----- 813 -- 10,852 --- 6,593 ---- 3,216


          Martin

          votruba "at" pitt "dot" edu
        • Martin Votruba
          ... Those around Bratislava were there for about as long as the Slavs/Slovaks, the Spis Germans arrived especially after the 1240s, so the Germans were
          Message 4 of 4 , Dec 5, 2007
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            > Did the two German groups come from different regions in Germany?

            Those around Bratislava were there for about as long as the
            Slavs/Slovaks, the Spis Germans arrived especially after the 1240s, so
            the Germans were ancient, historical locals as much as the Slovaks
            have been ancient, historical locals. The cultures of the Germans
            were shaped by their local histories just like the differences among
            the Slovaks were. What mattered, and speeded up a degree of
            urbanization and "mercantilization" of the Kingdom, was that the
            Germans were much more actively in touch with the more urbanized and
            mercantile areas in the Germanic "Holy Roman Empire" and brought ideas
            from there, so the Slovaks and other peoples in the Kingdom moved
            faster in that direction than they would have otherwise.


            Martin

            votruba "at" pitt "dot" edu
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